Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar

Posted by: Andre Lower

Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 11/24/12 04:19 PM

Hi there,

I searched for an answer for the question below but did not quite found it. Perhaps it has been answered here before, so please bear with my repetition of it...

I have recently started a very good Beatles cover band and am now contemplating the purchase of the "right" guitar, because so far I have been making-do with my humble Squier Strat plus 6 string acoustic (yeah, shame on me, I know...)

Anyways, went today to a store to have my first hands on contact with a Rickenbacker 6 stringer, and found the guitar is kind of hard to find...I was told (among others by a salesperson at Toronto's LA Music) that Rickenbacker keeps delivery of their guitars at a ridiculously low rate, which I suspect helps to drive prices up. Indeed the store had none on the floor. Was also told that the instrument quality is much overrated. I know this is debatable and am not interested in discussing it here and now - my current question is another: I am now interested in discovering whether one can coax a credible impersonation of the Beatles 62-66 guitar sound from alternatives such as the Epiphone Casino or maybe one of the Gretsch semi-hollows. Any pointers will be much appreciated.
Posted by: CEB

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 11/24/12 06:12 PM

Get the Casino it is a better playing guitar.
Posted by: Dannyalcatraz

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 11/24/12 06:13 PM

I would think it had a bit more to do with amps and effects, honestly. However, given what you say you're doing, you may have already covered those bases.

I bet the closest thing to a Ric would be a Danelectro of some kind. That probably doesn't help you much, though.

You might consider looking at the Richmond Guitars Canada company, a subdivision of Godin. They have a nifty guitar called the Belmont:

http://www.richmondguitarscanada.com/belmont.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAI0JUbO6Uo&sns=em


http://www.richmondguitarscanada.com/belmontbigsby.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59itkizmZv8&sns=em

If you follow the links, you'll see & hear a guitar with a SD '59HB in the bridge and SD Lipsticks in the neck and center positions. Lots of modern and retro tones available!
Posted by: Bill@Welcome Home Studios

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 11/24/12 06:16 PM

Doing John's part? The Rick and the casino was pretty much all I remember seeing him play in that time period.

George played a bunch of Gretsches and Gibsons, along with the Epi Casino but these will cost about the same if not more than a Rick. You can get a cheap new Pacific Rim Epi Casino, but they don't feel or sound the same. Probably close enough, though.

The thing is that most of the Beatle cover bands that I see are proud of the collection of authentic Beatles era instruments that they drag around. I found it interesting that one of the top touring Beatles cover bands in the US doesn't use amps at all, they've got Pods or something... but they've got the 'right' guitars. It is less about the sound to the audience, most of whom are not players. It is about the look.
Posted by: CEB

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 11/24/12 06:37 PM

I see you are not in the US. You could try to get a Rockinbetter but you may end wanting to replace the pickups depending on how picky you are.

Those clones are not supposed to be sold in the US. I know you can get them in the UK.
Posted by: Scott Fraser

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 11/24/12 08:06 PM

Originally Posted By: Andre Lower
I am now interested in discovering whether one can coax a credible impersonation of the Beatles 62-66 guitar sound from alternatives such as the Epiphone Casino or maybe one of the Gretsch semi-hollows. Any pointers will be much appreciated.


The Gretsches are fully hollow, not semi-hollow. Anyway, you need one guy playing a Rick & another playing a Gretsch. I would look at one of the affordable Electromatic 5422 series Gretsches. They play great, look the part, & cost under $1000. Only guitar nerds will know it isn't a real Country Gentleman.
Don't really know much about Ricks except that they feel really weird to me.

Posted by: Andre Lower

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 11/24/12 08:41 PM

Hey, thanks for all these answers! Your support is much appreciated.

Now I am not limited to buying it in Canada, and frankly don't care much about the guitar looks. My interest is in tracking what axe would cover it better. For instance, I realize that the Casino's P-90s are likely incapable of delivering that jangling tone of the 6 string Rick - but how far off would it be? Can the difference be reduced via EQ or some other trick? Has any other manufacturer noticed that Rick is heftily overpricing their guitars and started marketing something that sounds somewhat like their product?

BTW, are Rockinbetters any good at all?
Posted by: p90jr

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 11/24/12 11:52 PM

Go to youtube and watch the early Beatles concerts... I watched a show from Washington D.C. from '64 and one from Japan from '66... John was playing the Casino in the Japan show and got the same tones. The Vox amps probably have a lot to do with it... you can get jangle and chime from any guitar.

Are you doing a look-alike imitation tribute thing or just playing the music?

A friend who's a boutique amp maker (and nice enough to fix my crap) is a Beatlemaniac and he likes to point out that they used a lot of different stuff in the studio, and George and John had matching blue Strats by Rubber Soul and Revolver that nobody saw... Fender gave them a load of gear in the later days.

I needed Ric sounds for some stuff and my big hands don't work on Ric necks, so I got a Gretsch Electromatic Pro-Jet for really cheap used (but brand new looking) and put in GFS copies of DeArmond pickups. Using a touch of compression from my Janglebox and plugging it into VOX or a Fender Twin or tweed Blues DeVIlle gets 'em right. I used that guitar in a Monkees cover band, but I don't like it ergonomically (I only like playing it sitting down) so I now just use a Tele, Jazzmaster, Danelectro and even a Strat sometimes and get the right tones for those gigs.

The closest I ever heard to a cover band nailing early Beatles was in a cheesy bar and the band was playing on an island in the middle of the bar up above and behing he bartenders, and the guitarist had a Parker Fly and a POD on a stand right in front of him and he nailed it... then every other song they played over the next hour.

A few years ago on eBay a guy was dismantling his Beatles Tribute band somewhere and selling the gear as a set, which was a drum set he'd recovered to look like Ringo's black oyster Ludwigs, and 2 Vox digital amps that he'd swapped out the grill cloth to look like AC30s. He talked about how that was super practical for the act as far as progressing through the years using the simulations for different gear they used, and the floor controllers were hidden into his stage set somehow. The bass amp was an Eden or something he'd just hidden in a cab he made that looked like a Vox T-60 head.
Posted by: A StringAdministrator

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 11/25/12 05:41 AM

You're in Oakville? Did you check out Long and McQuades in Burlington? Maybe give them a call first. They have a great selection.
Posted by: Larryz

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 11/25/12 09:38 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vMfJXG-F6A <--- you might try one or two of the POG pedals to get the sound and not have to buy the guitar (as you may or may not like the Rick and/or only use it on a few songs). This demo at 2:20 kinda gets that Rick sound using a Strat. There are more demos on Youtube of the POG2 and the original POG...
Posted by: whitefang

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 11/25/12 10:18 AM

The CAVERNERS( another Canadian tribute band)use authentic period looking instruments, but not entirely. I didn't get close enough to catch just what models they were using. The amps weren't Vox, however, but the SOUND was pretty spot on. The "George" member would switch between a Gretsch and a Rick 12 string, depending on the song, while the "John" member moved from a Rick 6 to an Epiphone for the same reason. You'd have to see these guys to learn more about it, as when I saw them I really wasn't paying strict attention to the gear. They're really good, though, and worth it just to hear them, anyway.
Whitefang
Posted by: p90jr

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 11/25/12 12:39 PM

I'd say even with a Squier strat these in your signal chain would give you the "Lennon" sound:

->compressor* -> Tech 21 Liverpool (Vox amp "simulator" pedal) -> amp set clean/lo gain

* studio compressors played a big part in the sound of guitar in early 60s records... since they were putting everything down onto 2 or 4 tracks and ultimately mixing in mono, usually. The Janglebox is made specifically to nail the sounds of that period, but I've used a Barber Tonepress and MXR Dynacomp for 60s gigs.

I play mostly Vox amps now, but when I played Fender amps the Liverpool was a quick way to nail the Vox sound for Beatles, Tom Petty, etc. I still use it with the Vox amps, along with the Blonde (Fender simulator) because it's awesome and cool, a way to change sounds without messing with amp settings.

On the guitar front, visually... as far as evoking the era, what about Canadian Godin-made Richmond guitars?

http://www.richmondguitarscanada.com/guitars.html
Posted by: p90jr

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 11/25/12 12:56 PM

Italia Rimini, switch out those mini-humbuckers for GFS New Yorkers...

Posted by: Winston Psmith

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 11/26/12 06:22 AM

Since the POD has already come up in this thread . . .

I was at a friend's place recently, with my PRS SE Singlecut (2 Korean-made HB's) and my GT-3, plugged into a little GK Bass amp. My buddy needed the sound of a Tele, and I was able to go in and dial up the sound he wanted in a minute or two, by using the Pickup Simulator and tweaking the EQ a bit. My buddy was really surprised at how easy it was to set up a pretty convincing Tele-into-Twin sound, with the rig I was using. If you can find a decent affordable guitar, that gets you close to the sound you need, a good multi-fx could be the missing link in your signal chain. Vox makes some decent multis, and that may be the place to start your search.
Posted by: Caevan O'Shite

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 11/26/12 10:25 AM

Originally Posted By: p90jr
I'd say even with a Squier strat these in your signal chain would give you the "Lennon" sound:

->compressor* -> Tech 21 Liverpool (Vox amp "simulator" pedal) -> amp set clean/lo gain

* studio compressors played a big part in the sound of guitar in early 60s records... since they were putting everything down onto 2 or 4 tracks and ultimately mixing in mono, usually. The Janglebox is made specifically to nail the sounds of that period, but I've used a Barber Tonepress and MXR Dynacomp for 60s gigs.

I play mostly Vox amps now, but when I played Fender amps the Liverpool was a quick way to nail the Vox sound for Beatles, Tom Petty, etc. I still use it with the Vox amps, along with the Blonde (Fender simulator) because it's awesome and cool, a way to change sounds without messing with amp settings.


BINGO...

Originally Posted By: WinstonPsmith
Since the POD has already come up in this thread . . .

I was at a friend's place recently, with my PRS SE Singlecut (2 Korean-made HB's) and my GT-3, plugged into a little GK Bass amp. My buddy needed the sound of a Tele, and I was able to go in and dial up the sound he wanted in a minute or two, by using the Pickup Simulator and tweaking the EQ a bit. My buddy was really surprised at how easy it was to set up a pretty convincing Tele-into-Twin sound, with the rig I was using. If you can find a decent affordable guitar, that gets you close to the sound you need, a good multi-fx could be the missing link in your signal chain. Vox makes some decent multis, and that may be the place to start your search.


BINGO...
Posted by: Bartholomew

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 11/26/12 10:46 AM

The closest I got was with a Peavey Tweed Delta Blues amp 15 inch speaker and thought it sounded better than a vintage AC30 I worked beside one night.

I personally feel that EL84 tubes are a big component in the sound. Or maybe it was EL34, but not 6L6 Fender. I think the amp is more important than the guitar choice in this situation. If you don't have a tech and/or pretty decent PA gear the only choice is to get your sound on the stage with an amp.

Every Epiphone I ever tried or bought had pickups that were almost OK in my opinion - so be prepared to invest more $$$ at some point if you go that route. Some of them have cheapo (not the better) Grover tuners and will also require work on the nut or a new bone nut to stay in tune plus the 3 way switch for the pickups is garbage, I just changed one for a better part.

I have a Gretsch Country Gent but usually play a Les Paul or tele. For what you are doing I would try/play a couple of Gretsch products first.
Posted by: Dannyalcatraz

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 11/26/12 11:04 AM

So, that's 3 votes for Richmonds now?
Posted by: Caevan O'Shite

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 11/26/12 12:57 PM

Originally Posted By: Dannyalcatraz
So, that's 3 votes for Richmonds now?


FWIW, I've never seen any Richmond instruments- I was seconding compression and ringing mids/upper-mids, and also the Vox/EL84 kinda sorta sound in general. (Previous post since edited.)
Posted by: Moucon

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 11/26/12 05:12 PM

The key to the Ric sound is the pickup and tone capacitor. By rights, any of the flat P-90 type guitars (Epi Casino, Gretsch country gent., etc.) should sound pretty similar, especially if you knew how to hack the tone cap. I could be wrong on this - but I don't believe the Beatles recorded much with Ric 6-strings anyway. They used the Ric 12-string models. Your Strat is low-output single-coil... Frankly, I'd throw a little compression, chorus, and a slap-back delay on your Strat in the Neck+Middle position and see if it's in the ballpark. I bet you can get close.
Posted by: picker

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 11/26/12 05:35 PM

John lennon's main axe for at least the first three albums was a Rickenbacker Capri 325. He played it a lot.
Posted by: Andre Lower

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 11/26/12 06:05 PM

Thanks guys, I'm learning a lot. Please keep it comming.
Posted by: Bill@Welcome Home Studios

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 11/26/12 06:13 PM

Originally Posted By: Moucon
.... I could be wrong on this - but I don't believe the Beatles recorded much with Ric 6-strings anyway. They used the Ric 12-string models....


early days = Lennon with a 1958 maple 325. Eventually he gets it painted black. George was using a DuoJet he got in 1961. In 1962 they got the 2 Gibson J-160e acoustics. In 1963 George got a Country Gentleman, and a Rick 425. He picked up a second Country Gentleman later that year, as well as a Gretsch Tennessean. In 1964 and 1965 George got Rick 360-12 strings. In 1964 John gets a new Rick 325 in Jet-Glo, and a custom made 325-12, also in black, and for a short time, a Rick model 1996, which is a custom British number for an instrument very similar to the 325, but it was a loaner. I include it because it was used on some famous shows. In 1964, Fender was trying to get a promo deal with the Beatles, but could not get in touch with them. By early 1965 John and George had a pair of sonic blue Strats and George gets a Framus Hootenany 12 string and another Rick 360-12. In 1966 George gets a Gibson ES-345TD. In 1966 George got a Gibson SG Standard and a Burns Nu-Sonic bass, and John briefly used a Gretsch 6120 and got a Guild Starfire XII, while both got Epiphone Casinos. There is no evidence that all of these ended up on record... certainly none for the Strats, or the Guild.

Besides Pauls several Hofner basses he had an Epiphone Texan and a Casino. In 1965 he got a Rick 4001. This list does not include the many guitars they were loaned, given, prototypes, and other oddities that they did not use as Beatles.


Oh, and have we all forgotten the Vox Python strap???

That gets you from 1962 to 1967, according to Andy Babiuk, "Beatles Gear". Which gear was used on which recording sessions is covered a bit, but generally the Ricks (John;s primary electric seems to be the Ricj 325.) and the Gretsches, the Gibson J-160 and the Hofner basses seemed to be used the most.
Posted by: Dannyalcatraz

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 11/27/12 01:40 AM

Another guitar option may be available from Dillion USA.

http://www.dillionguitars.com/guitar/electric/
(Scroll down a little)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ht9OjHAWwgU&sns=em
Posted by: Larryz

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 11/27/12 08:27 AM

For looks I would go with a basic set of Ludwigs for Ringo, A Hofner Bass for Paul, a Rickenbacker for John and a Gretsch for George...

I was watching clips from Ed Sullivan last night on PBS and it was really funny how the program aligned with this thread on the Rickenbacker subject. All of the British Bands including the Beatles had a Rick 6 string. It was funny to watch CCR which had a Rick Bass and a Rick 6 string on Proud Mary, and the Beach Boys (a well known Fender band) using a Rick 12 on I Get Around...Both Brit and American bands of the 60's era liked having a Rick in the band. For the most part they made little or no difference in the sound until a 12 string Rick cut in and you knew you were listening to that jangley sound you only get from a Rick (at that time and for the most part, still today)...George was the first R&R player to inspire guitar players to pick up a 12 string Rick. If I wanted to capture the Beatles sound on a budget I would have John play a Rick 12 as you have a hard time seeing that it's 12 because of the headstock. John was better at singing and writing and George was better at guitar IMHO. Then you could have George and John switch off when you had a heavy 12string lead/rhythm part come up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7Vp59dd-No <---- or you could just hire this guy! cool
Posted by: p90junior

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 11/27/12 12:26 PM

John is underrated as a guitarist.

Someone mentioned "All My Loving," which is something I make people try to play when they say he sucked and laugh at them not being able to do it.

Then if you watch the live clips of "If I Needed Someone" he does the kinda Travis-picked riffs on the chorus (or bridge... whichever it is) while George is strumming the 12...

The rhythm guitarist: Always ignored and unappreciated... but worth their weight in gold, I tell you. I guess when they do their job perfectly you don't notice them.
Posted by: Bill@Welcome Home Studios

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 11/27/12 12:44 PM

Originally Posted By: Larryz
---- or you could just hire this guy! cool


Or Lawrence, who was in Wings http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QY884F2W1mw

or Ed Gerhard: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJNywrmBKkU
Posted by: p90junior

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 11/27/12 12:51 PM

George gets bashed, too.

He was a good Chuck Berry/Chet Atkins/Scotty Moore picker, but just as the Beatles hit big blues-based guitar took over rock and roll instead of that earlier style, that was parts country and jazz chord melody inspired.
Posted by: p90junior

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 11/27/12 12:58 PM

Originally Posted By: Bill@Welcome Home Studios
Originally Posted By: Larryz
---- or you could just hire this guy! cool


Or Lawrence, who was in Wings http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QY884F2W1mw

or Ed Gerhard: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJNywrmBKkU



Did Lawrence play the great flamenco acoustic riff on "Goodnight Tonight" by Wings? I always thought that was brilliant bit to put in the middle of that song.

What a nice amplified acoustic sound Ed Gerhard has...
Posted by: p90junior

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 11/27/12 01:03 PM

or get one of these...

Posted by: Larryz

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 11/27/12 06:25 PM

Originally Posted By: p90junior
John is underrated as a guitarist.

Someone mentioned "All My Loving," which is something I make people try to play when they say he sucked and laugh at them not being able to do it.

Then if you watch the live clips of "If I Needed Someone" he does the kinda Travis-picked riffs on the chorus (or bridge... whichever it is) while George is strumming the 12...


The rhythm guitarist: Always ignored and unappreciated... but worth their weight in gold, I tell you. I guess when they do their job perfectly you don't notice them.



Both John and George were great rhythm players and +1 on the rhythm players being ignored and unappreciated...I actually like playing rhythm better than playing lead guitar...probably cuz I sing and play solo a lot of the time and it really helps to have a good timining groove and some cool chords. cool
Posted by: Larryz

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 11/27/12 06:28 PM

Originally Posted By: Bill@Welcome Home Studios
Originally Posted By: Larryz
---- or you could just hire this guy! cool


Or Lawrence, who was in Wings http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QY884F2W1mw

or Ed Gerhard: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJNywrmBKkU



Great clips...love hearing acoustic renditions of Beatles songs. They were just fantastic writers and their music proves it when you hear it played this way. thu
Posted by: Andre Lower

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 11/27/12 08:32 PM

Originally Posted By: Larryz
Originally Posted By: p90junior
John is underrated as a guitarist.

Someone mentioned "All My Loving," which is something I make people try to play when they say he sucked and laugh at them not being able to do it.

Then if you watch the live clips of "If I Needed Someone" he does the kinda Travis-picked riffs on the chorus (or bridge... whichever it is) while George is strumming the 12...



The rhythm guitarist: Always ignored and unappreciated... but worth their weight in gold, I tell you. I guess when they do their job perfectly you don't notice them.



Both John and George were great rhythm players and +1 on the rhythm players being ignored and unappreciated...I actually like playing rhythm better than playing lead guitar...probably cuz I sing and play solo a lot of the time and it really helps to have a good timining groove and some cool chords. cool


+1,000 for quality rhythm guitar. In the book "Revolution in the Head" that I just finished the author offers some great comments on how the advent of powerful amps led to the "power Trio" band format and way too loud and overbearing guitar playing. Mind you, I love Rush, etc., but my heart lies with thoughtful and inspired rhythm guitar lines. I'm lucky to like it, as I am the singer more often than not.
Posted by: Larryz

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 11/28/12 09:10 AM

SRV vs CCR...I grew up on the garage band concept with my first band. I still prefer the Lead guitar, Rhythm Guitar, Bass Guitar and Drums. The Power Trios like Jeff Beck and SRV and others are great, but I really miss the Rhythm guitar. I guess that's why I like The Ventures, CCR, Beatles and others so much. idk

Ps. We were probably the first Ventures tribute band before anybody knew what a tribute band was...I played Rhythm. Hope the Beatles tribute works out great for your new band Andre! thu
Posted by: Dannyalcatraz

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 11/28/12 10:52 AM

Quote:
Mind you, I love Rush, etc., but my heart lies with thoughtful and inspired rhythm guitar lines.


Well, with top-notch power trios like Rush (or King's X), you'll see the bass and guitar trading off lead & rhythm duties. Lifeson's lead pyrotechnics have occasionally taken a back seat to Lee's. is he as good in the rhythm role as lead? No...but he does pretty well.
Posted by: Caevan O'Shite

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 11/28/12 01:00 PM

Anyways... getting early Beatles guitar tones live...

I swear, part of the way to get the sound you want is to have a clear concept in your mind, in your 'inner ear', of just what it is that you want to sound like. From there your attitude, and your "touch", will inform your playing and the resulting tone. Time and time again examples occur of famous players with notably recognizable signature-tones playing someone else's guitar and amp and sounding very recognizably like themselves.

From there, eliminate whatever is blocking your goal, and work on what will enhance reaching that goal. Some of this will be technique, some of it strings, pickups, guitars, amps, pedals... but know that these latter things are the least of the equation, that there are diminishing returns therein- that is, with each step in gear swapping, there will be finer and subtler amounts of real sonic pay-off.

There WILL be differences, but jumping from, say, one brand of single-coil pickup to another, or one Vox AC30TB style amp to another, will yield finer and finer degrees of actual, appreciable difference in tone- and YOU the PLAYER will notice this FAR more than any audience members, even those that are OTHER PLAYERS. smirk thu grin

So, don't agonize too much over these things. Hell, if I was trying to cop an early Beatles guitar-tone to best perform a cover of an early Beatles song with a band, I'd use my Les Paul- probably on the middle/both pickups or bridge pickup setting with the guitar's volume-knobs rolled back a little, probably playing with a loose, jangly feel, depending on the song and part- while calling up a Vox or Matchless digital-model with lots of compression feeding the PA "direct", and a real-live tube-amp (in my case, most likely either a Fuchs Lucky 7 [1xEL34] or a Carvin Vintage 33 [4xEL84]) on the side in parallel with the DI modeler, said amp set fairly bright, mid-rangey and semi-clean. I'd bet that people would immediately think, "Hey, that sounds like old Beatles! Cool! Let's dance and laugh and have a good time!"

rawk smile grin thu cool
Posted by: Winston Psmith

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 12/12/12 07:27 AM

I know we'd dropped this thread about a week ago, but I thought I'd mention the Line 6 Variax Guitar that popped up in the January '13 Guitar Player. There's a Rick 12 model in it that may be worth checking out. The Fender VG Start also has a 12-string tuning, although I'm not certain it was modeled after the Rick. Sorry to revive the old thread, but I'd forgotten about this alternative.
Posted by: Andre Lower

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 12/12/12 07:29 AM

I've read Variaxex sucked... Does anyone disagree?
Posted by: Scott Fraser

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 12/12/12 08:00 AM

Originally Posted By: Andre Lower
I've read Variaxex sucked... Does anyone disagree?


That's an opinion that I'd say needs to be checked against personal experience. Some people are going to play it & say it's the greatest thing since sliced bread, others are going to say it's unplayable garbage, but most are never going to play it & still think they know something about it & have a strong opinion based upon something they read on the internet.
Posted by: p90junior

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 12/12/12 12:14 PM

I played one for a few minutes... it's a guitar. You can adjust guitars to your liking.
Posted by: Caevan O'Shite

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 12/12/12 05:38 PM

Originally Posted By: Scott Fraser
Originally Posted By: Andre Lower
I've read Variaxex sucked... Does anyone disagree?


That's an opinion that I'd say needs to be checked against personal experience. Some people are going to play it & say it's the greatest thing since sliced bread, others are going to say it's unplayable garbage, but most are never going to play it & still think they know something about it & have a strong opinion based upon something they read on the internet.


thu cool

Originally Posted By: p90junior
I played one for a few minutes... it's a guitar. You can adjust guitars to your liking.


thu cool
Posted by: pinkjimiphoton

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 12/12/12 08:19 PM

you can get a vaguely rickenbacker-ish tone with a fender style guitar with the pickups far from the strings (so they effectively have lower gain) and a treble booster or fuzz with the guitar rolled back some.
a lot of the tone from the beatles was from the vox amps, and the TONS of compression on the guitar tracks.
Posted by: p90junior

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 12/13/12 02:36 PM

Have been playing Christmas parties with the Monkees cover band I play in, and have been too busy to change a lot of strings, so I've ended up grabbing a variety of guitars for the gigs... and they're going into an AC30, but run through the Janglebox (and kept low on gain) any guitar and pickup gets that Beatles-ish sound...

Posted by: CEB

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 12/13/12 02:40 PM

Originally Posted By: Andre Lower
I've read Variaxex sucked... Does anyone disagree?


Well that means it should make a good platform for emulating a Ric guitar.

(PS I like Ric basses)
Posted by: p90junior

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 12/13/12 04:02 PM

Originally Posted By: CEB
Originally Posted By: Andre Lower
I've read Variaxex sucked... Does anyone disagree?


Well that means it should make a good platform for emulating a Ric guitar.

(PS I like Ric basses)


Ha...

I often wonder exactly who and what Rics were originally designed for? What type of music? Just folk music, I guess... and a lot of my absolute faves over the years have used them.
Posted by: CEB

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 12/13/12 04:43 PM

They they hard to play. They sound neat but have never seen anyone shred on one. (Rics)
Posted by: pinkjimiphoton

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 12/13/12 06:36 PM

steve howe uses a variax. he don't suck. and they sound like what he intends them to be live under his master touch.
Posted by: Dannyalcatraz

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 12/13/12 06:56 PM

To flip an old saying on it's head, praise the workman, not the tool!
Posted by: picker

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 12/13/12 08:28 PM

I liked my Variax guitar quite well. I couldn't say if it really sounded like 59 Les Paul Sunburst, I never got close enough to one to know. But it sounded good to me. And, once it was set up properly, It played as well as any guitar I own.
Posted by: Caevan O'Shite

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 12/13/12 08:44 PM

Originally Posted By: CEB
Originally Posted By: Andre Lower
I've read Variaxex sucked... Does anyone disagree?


Well that means it should make a good platform for emulating a Ric guitar.

(PS I like Ric basses)


grin thu

Originally Posted By: p90junior
Ha...

I often wonder exactly who and what Rics were originally designed for? What type of music? Just folk music, I guess... and a lot of my absolute faves over the years have used them.


Originally Posted By: CEB
They they hard to play. They sound neat but have never seen anyone shred on one.


Seems to me it aught to be do-able to make a great playing guitar that sounds like a vintage Ric; and maybe even one that still looks like one, as well... confused
Posted by: Larryz

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 12/14/12 11:54 AM

Ric's are so overpriced you have to call to find out before ordering one what the price will be...you would think that there would be more companies out there producing Ric wanna-be's...I would still go with a 12 as that's where they are most needed and identified with their best recorded sounds...IMHO.
Posted by: CEB

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 12/14/12 12:34 PM

You would think someone would copy a Ric with a non-goofy neck scale/radius/profile.
Posted by: Caevan O'Shite

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 12/14/12 12:51 PM

Originally Posted By: Larryz
Ric's are so overpriced you have to call to find out before ordering one what the price will be...you would think that there would be more companies out there producing Ric wanna-be's...I would still go with a 12 as that's where they are most needed and identified with their best recorded sounds...IMHO.


It seems that Rickenbacker aggressively pursues anyone making Ric knock-offs; there WERE some Rogue-branded guitars, resembling Rics in many ways but not total copies, that Musician's Friend carried a few years ago; apparently they were sued out of existence- or at least out of the MF catalogs- by Rickenbacker...

Posted by: Larryz

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 12/14/12 07:56 PM

How true on the knock-offs but it seems like modelers get away with all kinds of rip-offs...but it's like a Strat, LP, 335, SG, Tele, you can have tons of copycats out there stealing the body and headstock and looks using singles, humbuckers, 90's, etc. (just not the name)...the main thing I would be going for is the [sound] of that 12 string Ric...
Posted by: Mark Schmieder

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 12/17/12 12:25 AM

The key to the Beatles sound is the pickups, and the Vox AC15/30. Go for Dynasonic on whichever Gretsch you buy, for the mid-60's Harrison vibe. Lennon was more on Casino at that point IIRC, but it's more about the pickups and amps and your playing than anything else.

I have a Tennesse Rose with Filtertrons and hope next year to buy a DuoJet Cadillac Green with Dynasonics. I'm pretty well covered guitar-tone wise at this point, only really missing P90's and I'm a bit more fond of Dynasonics than P90's overall as I feel they're better balanced, more dynamic and very versatile.

The only Electromatic model I personally enjoy playing is my Jet Baritone, but the store I visited didn't have the models that interested me or the pickups I wanted. There are some semi-hollow and hollow models below $1000 that sound close enough but simply aren't as fun to play as the Tennessee Rose with its solid build and smooth ebony fretboard. You could always upgrade later.

As for the so-called Ric sound, I feel it is overrated on both guitar and bass in terms of being anything particularly unique -- the main thing is the stereo output (on many models) and just how they feel, which might inspire different playing. For myself, the Rics I've tried (both new and old) didn't feel very solid to me or balanced, so I went for three different Schecter models that emulate Rics to some extent: Stargazer-6, Stargazer-12, and T/SH-1.

http://www.schecterguitars.com/International/Products/Guitar/TSH-1.aspx

For the latter, make sure to aim for the recent model vs. this earlier version:

http://www.schecterguitars.com/International/Vault/35/TSH-1-Semi-Hollow-2000-2002.aspx

The Stargazer-12 is the best sounding and feeling 12-string electric I have ever played. The 6-string model is surprisingly not at all redundant with the 12 or the T/SH-1. Interestingly, the pickups on the T/SH-1 are a bit into Gretsch territory, and it is extremely well-constructed with more versatility of tone than any guitar in my collection, having by far the most usable single-coil/humbucker switch of any Schecter guitar (the design lends itself better to single-coil than other models).
Posted by: Caevan O'Shite

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 12/17/12 12:14 PM

Excellent post, Mark! thu cool
Posted by: Mark Schmieder

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 12/17/12 03:31 PM

Just to clarify, the FilterTron's are mini humbuckers. They're just nice to have in addition to the Dynasonics.

As for P90's, another well-built and affordable option is the Schecter Special Edition Solo-6:

http://schecterguitars.com/Products/Guitar/Special-Edition-Solo-6.aspx

That's the one I've targeted, if I choose to add a P90 to my arsenal. I thought about a Casino, but I just can't find one that isn't crud. Maybe they always were crud but just sounded good in the right hands or after a lot of setup work.
Posted by: Dannyalcatraz

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 12/17/12 05:19 PM

Interesting to see some of Schecter's non-metal oriented guitars get some luv.
Posted by: Timbokeys

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 12/27/12 09:14 PM

Every guitar company out there makes their share of junk guitars.
You just have to pick through them to find a good one that fits your hands and needs.
My Rickenbacker 12 string plays and sounds great & my two 4001 basses were excellent guitars as well.
I've had some terrible Strats & Les Pauls as well as a few very good ones.
My Gibson 335 from 1975 is a great guitar but one of my buddies owned one that was one of the worst feeling pieces of junk I have ever played.
I played dozens of Gretsch guitars made in China, Japan, Korea & the USA before I found the one I bought. Turns out it's made in Korea. The $4000 custom shop one I played did not impress me at all.
Both my Carvin Guitars are excellent but I'm sure they've made their share of scrap wood as well.
I look at guitars as tools of my trade.
They all have their own sound that you can't get using another guitar.
They all also have their strong points and weaknesses.
Gibson, Fender, Gretsch, Rickenbacker, Danelectro, Etc. - session guys need them all if they want to get those classic sounds.
Just like we need Fender, Marshall & Vox amps and all the variations out there.
Then there must be a million stomp boxes out there that are cool to some and junk to others.
I've never understood people making blanket statements like "this guitar sucks" & "that amp sucks" when chances are if you play enough of them you'll find a guitar or amp that sucks by every brand out there.
I must have played or owned 50 Strats before I found the one that worked for me - prior to that I though Strats sucked.
Best thing we can do is find tool that gets the job done.
Posted by: picker

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 12/28/12 04:40 AM

You know, the only guitars I ever saw Andrew Gold with were a Les Paul and a Strat. I have no doubt he could have used Rickies, but I never saw a picture of him with one.
Posted by: Caevan O'Shite

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 12/28/12 09:10 AM

Originally Posted By: picker
You know, the only guitars I ever saw Andrew Gold with were a Les Paul and a Strat. I have no doubt he could have used Rickies, but I never saw a picture of him with one.


Hmmmnn... Thinking of another thread, picker?

Andrew Gold Guitar Sound
Posted by: p90jr

Re: Emulating the Rick sound on a different guitar - 12/29/12 09:01 AM

I don't think Ric guitars "suck," I kind of love them... they're just hard for me to play anything other than rhythm on... if I played in an REM cover band or something I could justify the expense to myself. I can't play the 12-strings at all really, because of my big hands.