GEM Promega 3

Posted by: hermanjoe

GEM Promega 3 - 04/10/04 07:21 PM

Anyone played one of these? I have read some great things about them on Harmony-Central. Even heard rumors Herbie Hancock plays one. Problem is they have direct sales so you can't really try one...
Posted by: marino

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 04/10/04 10:16 PM

I don't own the Promega, but I have played it several times, and I must say that I love it.

My impressions:

Excellent keyboard
Top-notch piano sounds,and exceptional 'connection' between keys and sound.
The other onboard sounds vary a bit in quality, from terrific to so-so, but generally better than the 'other' sounds in the most popular digital pianos. Plus, you have four layerable sections, without losing polyphony. In particular, I like the EPs, clavs, brass, pads, vibes, but I don't care too much for the organs, synths and bass sounds.
Immediacy of programming is fantastic: Motorized faders! Plus graphic EQ on the front panel. One knob/button/slider per function.

The only negative I can notice is the weight: It's heavy.

Of course, I would not advice buying it without trying it beforehand. Especially the keyboard feel is a matter of personal preference, and that varies a lot among players.
Posted by: Byrdman

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 04/11/04 12:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by marino:
I don't own the Promega, but I have played it several times, and I must say that I love it.

My impressions:

Excellent keyboard
Top-notch piano sounds,and exceptional 'connection' between keys and sound.
The other onboard sounds vary a bit in quality, from terrific to so-so, but generally better than the 'other' sounds in the most popular digital pianos. Plus, you have four layerable sections, without losing polyphony. In particular, I like the EPs, clavs, brass, pads, vibes, but I don't care too much for the organs, synths and bass sounds.
Immediacy of programming is fantastic: Motorized faders! Plus graphic EQ on the front panel. One knob/button/slider per function.

The only negative I can notice is the weight: It's heavy.

Of course, I would not advice buying it without trying it beforehand. Especially the keyboard feel is a matter of personal preference, and that varies a lot among players.
Have you had chance to compare one to an S90? That seems to be the default oprion for me for my next weighted 88, but perhaps I should make sure I look at a promega as well. Wish they were more widely accessible to try.
Posted by: zeronyne

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 04/11/04 02:21 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by hermanjoe:
Anyone played one of these? I have read some great things about them on Harmony-Central. Even heard rumors Herbie Hancock plays one. Problem is they have direct sales so you can't really try one...
I've got a dealer 3 miles away. I think they feel and sound absolutely fantastic. The review on Keyboard was spot-on.
Posted by: hermanjoe

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 04/11/04 04:18 AM

What month of keyboard was that review you mention? I would like to check it out. In responce to a previous reply. I have checked out the Yah S-90. I like it. The feel is good, and the sounds are great. I am also looking into trying a Kurz. I hear their vintage keyboard collection is the best. I am more of a player so I only use a handful of keyboard sounds. Mainly rhodes and piano.
Posted by: zeronyne

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 04/11/04 05:01 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by hermanjoe:
What month of keyboard was that review you mention? I would like to check it out.
Not sure what month, but it had Rick Wakeman on the cover.
Posted by: zeronyne

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 04/11/04 05:01 AM

double post
Posted by: marino

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 04/11/04 12:30 PM

The S90 have lots more onboard sounds than the Promega. However, I think the Promega has the edge for playability and acoustic piano sound.
The keyboard is excellent on both instrument, IMO.

Also...
"Rock Wakeman"?! Rick would be proud of the nickname... \:D
Posted by: hermanjoe

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 04/11/04 07:59 PM

I have searched the keyboard mag archives and have had no luck in finding a review on the Promega 3. I am also in search of a dealer in the greater Boston, MA area. If anyone has any infot that would be great.
Posted by: marino

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 04/11/04 10:45 PM

OK. The review is on the November 2002 issue of Keyboard magazine. Rick Wakeman is on the cover, prominently playing... the Promega!

BTW - the street price is *much* lower than the $2995 mentioned by the magazine. I've seen it running for $1800 or so. This is in Europe, however - I don't know about the USA.
Posted by: Grave BryceAdministrator

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 04/11/04 10:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by marino:
BTW - the street price is *much* lower than the $2995 mentioned by the magazine. I've seen it running for $1800 or so. This is in Europe, however - I don't know about the USA.
Perhaps the fact that you live in the country in which it's manufactured has some effect on the pricing you're seeing... ;\)

I, too, have played the Pro Mega. I, too, think it sounds and feels great. I also think the interface kicks ass. Totally simple...to look at it is to pretty much completely understand it. I love that...

They've made excellent instruments for years, but they've never managed to have a big hit (not in the US, anyway). Their choice to use the name "General Music" really hurts them, IMO. I think using their GEM name would be a much better move.

Their association with Peavey may not have been the best plan either...

dB
Posted by: Synthoid

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 04/13/04 12:12 PM

I get the impression that unit is much more popular in Europe. I've never seen one in any store here in the US--like Sam Ash or Guitar Center.

From what I've read online, the keyboards are loaded with great features, be nice to try one out. I do agree that "General Music" is a poor choice for a name. It sounds very "K-Martish."
Posted by: ksoper

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 04/13/04 12:39 PM

I had to go look this critter up.. I worked with a guy who had a Peavey endorsement and was given a GEM Equinox 88 to use. Frankly, the keybed wasn't particularly good and all the sounds had a gauzey film over them.

I was afraid that the Promega line was a continuation of that design. Glad to see it isn't.

k.
Posted by: burningbusch

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 04/13/04 05:05 PM

I played the Herbie Hancock signature Promega 3 at NAMM and have to say it was the most fun I've had playing a digital keyboard, maybe ever. It was the Rhodes patch in the right and a bass patch in the left that killed me. The Rhodes, I think it's modeled, had a really exaggerated dynamic range and you could get it to just pop notes out big time when hit hard. Very expressive. I didn't spend a lot of time on the other sounds and NAMM is horrible for auditioning any way.

Busch.
Posted by: hermanjoe

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 04/14/04 04:14 PM

I have the feeling if I could try one, I'd be sold. But I wouldn't want to shell out 2 grand for something I haven't tried.
Anyone know a dealer in the Boston. MA area?
Posted by: NeoDavinci

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 04/14/04 08:10 PM

Hi,
I do own a Promega 2, and I can tell you that it is a fantastic keyboard. The Promega 3 is even better. I just didn't like its retro look much.
The main difference in the Promega and every other keyboard is that it utilizes physical modeling instead of straight sampling. The problem with sampling is that a real piano reacts with itself. For instance, if you hold down a C and play a G on a real piano, a harmonic rings because of the sympathetic vibration. A sample can never duplicate this, but my Promega does. This makes for a far more realistic piano experience. If you have specific questions about the Promega, I'm happy to answer.
NeoDavinci
Posted by: hermanjoe

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 04/14/04 10:10 PM

Main main use for the Promega 3 would be as a stage piano. Mainly rhodes, and acoustic piano sounds. I often like to layer the piano with strings, rhodes with synth or various combinations. That's pretty much it. I use a Korg cx-3 organ, and a Korg Karma for the rest. So I basically need a kick-ass stage piano with great feel and the most realistic sounds available. I use a roland a-90 for that right now. The controller aspects are good but I need something with superior sound.

Thanks
Posted by: Andym0908

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 04/21/04 09:48 AM

I tried one of these recently here in London (turnkey.co.uk have one).

I didn't know what to make of it, as it sat in the corner looking like 70's throwback. I never really took to GEM, in favour of Korg's and Rolands. But... I gave it a try!

I must say I loved the feel of the keyboard action, very responsive, and the piano patch (which I guess was the first patch as I switched it on), sounded fantastic.

Unfortunately, I spent more time pressing buttons in order to watch the motorised faders move, than trying other sounds!!!

I can't imagine the flightcase needed for one of these...

Anyway, to summise: I really liked it, the feel, the sound quality, the layout of the controls. Not quite a board I would go for, visually (I'm more an A80/A90 main keyboard kinda guy!).

It's priced at around £1,599 here in the UK I think.
Posted by: Chaso DeChaso

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 04/21/04 03:07 PM

I can't find the General Music stuff anywhere near me in order to play it. I understand that the Baldwin Pianovelle (e.g., their pRP8 model) uses some General Music guts - does anyone know any more about these? (Pianovelle is at least available in the US, though generally only through acoustic piano dealers and not usually through electronic music instrument stores.)

Chaso
Posted by: Jeep

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 04/22/04 02:46 PM

In case anyone hasn't already checked it out,
there's a bunch of info at
General Music's US (distributor) website:

http://www.generalmusic.us

It's fairly comprehensive and makes a good effort at answering
any questions one may have about their outfit and products.
Give it time to load properly,
and be sure to peruse their forum(s).
(Hint: on the "Show Topics" menu, click on "All")
Posted by: Chaso DeChaso

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 04/27/04 06:15 PM

Scratch my last response - Pianovelle is no longer. Despite the agreement with GEM in the late nineties, Baldwin is now no longer making or selling electronic pianos. But I think I am the only one who cares about poor old Baldwin...

I checked out the GeneralMusic US website, which is really neat. But geeze where the heck can you play one of these things? Anyone in the NYC area have an idea? I'm waiting for a response from the (finnicky) website dealer locator...

Chaso
Posted by: hermanjoe

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 04/28/04 12:04 AM

I have contacted GEM to find out where to play a promega as well. I am waiting their responce. I'll post the message here when I get it.
Posted by: Chaso DeChaso

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 05/03/04 03:57 PM

I've gotten no response from GeneralMusic US regarding dealers. At this point, even if I found the product somewhere, I don't think I could trust this company enough to buy something from them - could you imagine trying to get service? It seems like one of these situations where they're just not quite ready to go in this country (USA) yet. So nothing against the parent company - if I was in Italy maybe things would be totally different, and maybe in my country things will improve for them soon...
Posted by: hermanjoe

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 05/08/04 03:44 AM

I actually found a dealer!! I had to speacial order the promega 3, but It should arrive withing a few weeks. Thanks to everyone who gave input on this board. I hope its all it's said to be. I'll keep you all updated.

By the way the dealer is Wurlitzer Music and Sound in Boston, MA. In case anyone needs to know.
Posted by: Chaso DeChaso

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 05/09/04 11:14 AM

Cool! Looks to be an awesome and unique board. How much did it cost you? Any idea who would service it if there was a problem? Anyway, give us a review when you've played it for a little while...
Posted by: hermanjoe

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 05/10/04 04:17 AM

I trust the guy who sold it to me, and I'm sure there is a warranty. There is also a great local repair place near me that does great work on pretty much everything.

I got the board for $2,200 plus tax, which is a great deal.

I'll be sure to give you guys a review when I get my hands on this thing!!
Posted by: c4

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 05/11/04 01:50 PM

saw one one on harmony central with custom flight case for 1400.00. A dealer here has one brand new for 1800.00
Posted by: hermanjoe

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 05/12/04 03:52 PM

Where are you located?
Posted by: Chaso DeChaso

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 05/12/04 06:35 PM

"Here" ... where things are very cheap. For example, a Roland Fantom X8 is $39.94. That's even less than headphones.
Posted by: iMember

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 05/14/04 06:15 AM

I just want to join the praisechoir.

I been using a promega 3 for a year now and it is a superb keyboard for piano and steely dan-ish style rhodes.

BUT:

Be sure you get the latest upgraded mainboard. I've had the promega crash on me 2 times this year, before I got the upgraded board. I guess GEM is to small and young to get everything right the first time.

My dealer said to me: "Never order anything 1.0 from and Italian company. Wait until they got the mistakes sorted out".

Now, please don't flame me for being anti-italian. This isn't my statement, it's the statement of someone who has been dealing with italian manufacturers for years. Besides I'll guess this is true for a lot of small companies.

AND, the strings, rock organs and pads and brass are NOT GOOD. In fact, they are BAD. But the piano, rhodes and clav more than makes up for it. The basses are also excellent. And, it has great effects, both reverb and other.

If you want a great piano sound, it's a no brainer actually. I even play Classical music on it with great Joy.
Posted by: c4

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/01/04 09:30 PM

what is the difference between the Herbie Hancock signature model and a regular promega 3?
Posted by: burningbusch

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/01/04 10:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by c4:
what is the difference between the Herbie Hancock signature model and a regular promega 3?
I believe the Promega 3 that I played at NAMM was a one of a kind. Probably Herbie played and liked it so it signed his name (very large) on the instrument. Maybe they gave him one, don't know. Doubt that it's for sale, more for show. Mechanically it's the same as the other models.

Busch.
Posted by: GEM-PaulD

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/02/04 09:12 PM

I am the National Sales Manager for Generalmusic, Please contact me personally if you are indeed seeking out a dealer in your area, where you can try the Promega piano out.

Paul Davis
PaulD@Generalmusic.us
Posted by: Rasmus-DK

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/12/04 01:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Chaso DeChaso:
I can't find the General Music stuff anywhere near me in order to play it. I understand that the Baldwin Pianovelle (e.g., their pRP8 model) uses some General Music guts - does anyone know any more about these? (Pianovelle is at least available in the US, though generally only through acoustic piano dealers and not usually through electronic music instrument stores.)

Chaso
Actually, the Prp8 IS just a GEM Prp8 with a Baldwin sticker on it.. It's an okay piano for the price but its polyphony is only 32 notes and the samples are somewhat..err..compressed..

Here's the GEM..
Posted by: Chaso DeChaso

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/14/04 09:12 AM

Yes, apparently most or all of the Baldwin Pianovelles were rebadged GEM models. When I was researching this, the Baldwin website indicated various models as current and the pRP8 as new whereas in fact they were all quite old and Baldwin had gotten out of electronic pianos altogether (and just hadn't updated their website to admit this). Too bad. This was the only way to get GEM technology in the US, though it seems GEM is now attempting to start distribution under their own name (too late for me - I couldn't find a GEM dealer when I was looking to try one).

Chaso
Posted by: Byrdman

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/14/04 09:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by GEM-PaulD:
I am the National Sales Manager for Generalmusic, Please contact me personally if you are indeed seeking out a dealer in your area, where you can try the Promega piano out.

Paul Davis
PaulD@Generalmusic.us
Hey Paul, can you get a list of dealers on your site or post them here. I was in Ottawa the other week and having some free time on Saturday I thought I would see if I could find one to try, but no luck.
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/18/04 11:49 AM

Hi Byrdman,

My name is Dave McMahan. I am the national product support manager for Generalmusic USA. Nice to meet you.

There is a Generalmusic dealer in Eugene, OR named Piano Liquidators. I believe they also have a store north of Eugene. There was a Promega 3 in stock when I was there doing some training a while back.

I am sorry that I don't have the stores phone number with me. As soon as I can call our main office, I will post the number in this thread.

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: guestuser@guestuser.com

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/18/04 12:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DaveMcM:
Hi Byrdman,

My name is Dave McMahan. I am the national product support manager for Generalmusic USA. Nice to meet you.

There is a Generalmusic dealer in Eugene, OR named Piano Liquidators. I believe they also have a store north of Eugene. There was a Promega 3 in stock when I was there doing some training a while back.

I am sorry that I don't have the stores phone number with me. As soon as I can call our main office, I will post the number in this thread.

Best Regards,

Dave
Hi, Dave

Is there a GEM dealer in Toronto, Ontario? I would like to try out the ProMega.
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/18/04 12:34 PM

Byrdman,

As promised, here is the phone number and information on the Generalmusic dealer in Eugene, OR.

Piano Liquidators
473 West 7th
Suite 3
Eugene, OR 97401

Phone 541-343-0107
Contact Don Thummel

Currently Piano Liquidators has the following Generalmusic products in stock;
Promega 3
Promega 2
Genesys
Genesys Pro
Genesys Ensemble
Rp series home digital piano assortment

If you have specific questions regarding our products, please feel free to contact me. I will be happy to help.

Best Regards,

Dave McMahan
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/18/04 12:41 PM

Quote:
Hi, Dave

Is there a GEM dealer in Toronto, Ontario? I would like to try out the ProMega
Hi,

I am from Generalmusic USA so I don't have that information. Please give me a little time to find out who the distributor is for your area and I will get you in touch with them.

Best Regards,

Dave McMahan

Quote:
*** The only good velocity-switch is an inaudible velocity-switch ***
***Even better...No Velocity Switching and incredible dynamic range (Promega)***
Posted by: guestuser@guestuser.com

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/18/04 01:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DaveMcM:
I am from Generalmusic USA so I don't have that information. Please give me a little time to find out who the distributor is for your area and I will get you in touch with them.

Best Regards,
Dave McMahan
Thanks

Quote:
***Even better...No Velocity Switching and incredible dynamic range (Promega)***
Do you mean, the acoustic piano is not implemented with velocity-switched sample layers? If so, is it physically modeled, or does it just use one layer?

Or do you mean, that the velocity-switching is well-implemented, and therefore, can't be heard?
Posted by: Immo

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/18/04 02:25 PM

Hi Dave,

I'm in NYC and am wondering if there is a dealer anywhere nearby where I can try a Promega 3. I've checked all the big shops and I'm hoping there's a small botique that I skipped over that carries it.

Also, Dave and Jeep, I was on the generalmusic.us and when I try to access the forums I get the error "You are not authorized to view this page". Does this area still work?

Thanks,
James
Posted by: burningbusch

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/18/04 03:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DaveMcM:
Quote:

[QUOTE]*** The only good velocity-switch is an inaudible velocity-switch ***
***Even better...No Velocity Switching and incredible dynamic range (Promega)***
That's what I was hearing with the Rhodes. The most fun I've had playing an electronic keyboard that I can remember.

OK, where in Seattle might I find one?

Busch.
Posted by: c4

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/18/04 04:40 PM

One of the main reasons I bought a pro mega 3 is that there is no velocity switching and 320 note polyphony is pretty sweet too \:\) And as far as a live board, it just doesnt get any easier to tweak on the fly then this board. The piano sound is the best on the market, the clav and rhodes are as good as my electro 73.
Posted by: p120dUdE

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/18/04 05:57 PM

I don't like the Promega piano Series. I dont like the pianos on them. The action is not comfortable for me, it is a Fatar. They look kind of ugly too.

Regards,
p120dUdE
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/18/04 08:05 PM

Hi,

Quote:
***Even better...No Velocity Switching and incredible dynamic range (Promega)***
Quote:
Do you mean, the acoustic piano is not implemented with velocity-switched sample layers? If so, is it physically modeled, or does it just use one layer?

Or do you mean, that the velocity-switching is well-implemented, and therefore, can't be heard?
The Promega series (2 & 3) do not use velocity switching to achieve the variances in harmonic structure of an acoustic piano. The DRAKE chip (Dsp-Risk-Advanced-Keyboard-Engine), a 32-bit, 50 MIP's processor designed by Generalmusic specifically for the Promega offers incredible power that has not been available before in an electronic keyboard. The Promega 3 utilizes 5 DRAKE chips.

While the acoustic piano sounds are derived through sampling technology, the physical models that are applied to these samples are what makes the Promega what it is. One physical model called FADE (Filter Algorithmic Dynamic Emulation) provides the harmonic dynamic range variances to emulate the subtleties in response of an acoustic piano.

Other physical models include;

Advanced Release Technology, emulating the true sound of the dampers muting the strings when keys are released

Natural Sympathetic String Resonance, creating the appropriate overtones that occur on an acoustic piano when new note(s) are played while other dampers are still in the raised position. Other electronic instruments that have a similar feature simply playback a single static sample during this time.

Damper Physical Modeling. The Promega damper pedal contains a potentiometer, unlike other damper pedals that are just a switch. This allows the dampers in the Promega to respond as they do on a real acoustic piano.

The rhodes, wurlitzer and calvinet sounds in the Promega are achieved entirely through physical modeling.

The Promega really is quite different than the other electronic pianos on the market. It contains technology that does not exist elsewhere. In situations where an acoustic piano is not available or practical, the Promega offers an excellent alternative.

For those players who desire the mellower or brighter sound of other brands of digital pianos, the Promega's editing capabilities can generally create sounds that will satisfy those people as well.

Sorry for going on and on, but I really think the Promega is a great instrument. Not because I work for the company mind you. I have been playing keyboards professionally, acoustic and electronic, for upwards of 30 years. And I have never had an electronic piano that I was truly and completely satisfied with, especially when playing solo piano until the Promega.

Best Regards,

Dave McMahan
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/18/04 08:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by p120dUdE:
I don't like the Promega piano Series. I dont like the pianos on them. The action is not comfortable for me, it is a Fatar. They look kind of ugly too.

Regards,
p120dUdE
Hi Chris,

Sorry to hear you feel that way. But that is what makes us all different. Not everybody has to like the same thing.

It is true that the action of the Promega is manufactured by Fatar. However, the design is unique to the Promega 3 and not used on any other instrument. Most traditional pianists are quite happy with the feel of the action.

As for the look, yeah, it does veer off from the common brushed aluminum look that is common today. Although we did use this type of case for our Promega 2. In designing the Promega 3, the idea was to make the user interface and overall look of the instrument as unique as the sound that it creates. You've got to admit, it is unique looking. And once you actually sit at the Promega and use the controls, you will appreciate the angle of the panel. The faders and knobs are extremely accessible for quick, on the spot changes when inspiration hits.

I see you are owner of a Music Studio. Is this a recording studio? The P120 that you have is a fine digital piano. But if you ever have the opportunity to play the Promega side by side with an acoustic grand piano while they are both being amplified through the same system, I think there is a chance that you might change you mind. Many top artists use the Promega live and in the studio and the common opinion is it records beautifully and is indistinguishable from a real piano.

Best Regards,

Dave McMahan
Posted by: p120dUdE

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/18/04 11:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DaveMcM:
Quote:
Originally posted by p120dUdE:
I don't like the Promega piano Series. I dont like the pianos on them. The action is not comfortable for me, it is a Fatar. They look kind of ugly too.

Regards,
p120dUdE
Hi Chris,

Sorry to hear you feel that way. But that is what makes us all different. Not everybody has to like the same thing.

It is true that the action of the Promega is manufactured by Fatar. However, the design is unique to the Promega 3 and not used on any other instrument. Most traditional pianists are quite happy with the feel of the action.

As for the look, yeah, it does veer off from the common brushed aluminum look that is common today. Although we did use this type of case for our Promega 2. In designing the Promega 3, the idea was to make the user interface and overall look of the instrument as unique as the sound that it creates. You've got to admit, it is unique looking. And once you actually sit at the Promega and use the controls, you will appreciate the angle of the panel. The faders and knobs are extremely accessible for quick, on the spot changes when inspiration hits.

I see you are owner of a Music Studio. Is this a recording studio? The P120 that you have is a fine digital piano. But if you ever have the opportunity to play the Promega side by side with an acoustic grand piano while they are both being amplified through the same system, I think there is a chance that you might change you mind. Many top artists use the Promega live and in the studio and the common opinion is it records beautifully and is indistinguishable from a real piano.

Best Regards,

Dave McMahan
No, im not really going to change my mind. Its justs my personal preference that the Promega series is just not for me. I dont like them.

My Yamaha p120 is my baby. The p120's pianos sound exactly like a piano. The richness and fullness is superb. The action connects beatifully and smoothly. It is a beatiful, absolutely superb piano.

I have tried the GEM Promega's, and I dont like them. Just my personal preference.

Regards,
p120dUdE
Posted by: marino

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/19/04 12:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DaveMcM:
It is true that the action of the Promega is manufactured by Fatar. However, the design is unique to the Promega 3 and not used on any other instrument. Most traditional pianists are quite happy with the feel of the action.

As a longtime pianist, I can confirm that. \:\)

once you actually sit at the Promega and use the controls, you will appreciate the angle of the panel. The faders and knobs are extremely accessible for quick, on the spot changes when inspiration hits.

Confirmed as well. Editing is a breeze.
I'm playing the Promega quite often these days, because one of the schools I teach in owns two of them. I must say I'm more and more impressed with its piano sound and keyboard - it's an highly playable instrument. On June 30th, I'll play it onstage for the first time, at a jazz-type gig. While I'm disappointed not to have the grand piano I was promised \:\( , I'm happy to have an opportunity to test the Promega onstage. I'll post my impressions after the concert.

Carlo
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/19/04 01:16 AM

Hello Carlo,

Piacere di conoscerla.

I am happy that you are enjoying the Promega 3. I am sure you will be as comfortable playing this instrument on stage as I am. I play in a band that backs up a lot of touring artists and the Promega has never failed to produce the exact sound I needed for a particular song.

Ciao,

Dave McMahan
Posted by: Byrdman

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/19/04 01:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DaveMcM:

Sorry for going on and on,
Not at all. Interesting info.

Can you tweak the piano to sound real bad, like an upright that has escaped no catastrophy except conflagration and a good tuning. If you can do that as well as sound like a really good piano it would be very cool.
Posted by: mooghead

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/19/04 04:58 AM

What about the Promega 2?

Is the same action of the big brother?

The Promega 3 has additional sounds...but are the main sounds the same?

Is the quality of converters the same?

Are these the only differences?
- Look, number of sections, poliphony, additional sounds, better eq...

On the Promega 3 is impossible to use another keyboard on top of it for its tilted panel, the Promega 2 is tilted as well but in a slighter way:
do you think a sinth would hinder or not the usability of its front panel?

Too many questions...but I tested the Promega 3 at least 2 years ago and it was like driving a Maserati :-)

Ciao.
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/19/04 11:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Byrdman:
Quote:
Originally posted by DaveMcM:

Sorry for going on and on,
Not at all. Interesting info.

Can you tweak the piano to sound real bad, like an upright that has escaped no catastrophy except conflagration and a good tuning. If you can do that as well as sound like a really good piano it would be very cool.
Hi Byrdman,

Absolutely.

In fact, last month my band backed up a DooWop show featuring many artists/groups from the 50's. One of the groups was The Magnificents and one of the songs they performed is called Searchin'. There are prominent piano fills throughout the song. I would love to be able to go back in time and see the actual piano that was used during the recording session for that song. It had to be a nasty, beat-up spinet of some kind and must have been miked with a couple of tin cans and some string.

I created a preset that used the Upright Piano sound and tweaked the filter and EQ a bit and there was the sound. During rehearsal with The Magnificents the day of the show, I pulled up that sound for Searchin'. As soon as I played the first fill, the entire band looked over at me with smiles on their faces.

BTW, I use the Promega 2 on stage along with the Genesys Pro. Here are a couple of pictures from that show
http://www.generalmusic.us/WDM%20Data/Dave\'s%20photos/Band%20Shot.jpg
http://www.generalmusic.us/WDM%20Data/Dave\'s%20photos/Crowd%20Shot.jpg

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/19/04 11:47 AM

Hello,

Quote:
Is the same action of the big brother?
The keybed in the Promega 3 has aftertouch while the Promega 2 does not, so the feel is a slight bit different. I regularly use the Promega 2 and find the action to be quite playable.

Quote:
The Promega 3 has additional sounds...but are the main sounds the same?
The Promega 3 has four sound sections while the Promega 2 has three sound sections. The Pianos and Vintage Keys sections are the same on both instruments. Various sounds from the Promega 3's Orchestra/Pad and Bass/Other sections were selected to use in the Promega 2's Bass/Orchestra section.

Quote:
Is the quality of converters the same?
Yes, both instruments use the same converters. The outputs are equal in quality.

Quote:
Are these the only differences?
- Look, number of sections, polyphony, additional sounds, better eq...
Yes. The Promega 3 has 320 note polyphony and the Promega 2 has 160 note polyphony.

Quote:
On the Promega 3 is impossible to use another keyboard on top of it for its tilted panel, the Promega 2 is tilted as well but in a slighter way:
do you think a sinth would hinder or not the usability of its front panel?
Not at all. I have seen people use double tier stands with both the Promega 2 and Promega 3 on the bottom level. Here is a picture of my set-up; http://www.generalmusic.us/WDM%20Data/Dave\'s%20photos/my%20set-up.jpg

Quote:
Too many questions...but I tested the Promega 3 at least 2 years ago and it was like driving a Maserati :-)
I'm glad to hear that. The Promega is probably as close as I'll get to driving a Maserati. ;\)

Ciao,

Dave
Posted by: Byrdman

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/19/04 12:18 PM

Hey Dave - it would be real cool if someone (like GEM) would do a main piano that was designed to have other boards sit on top of it. For performers this would be a key differentiating factor. Would not need to be real deep - users could build an extension box, or you could make on available as an accessory.

One wants to get the boards as close together as possible, like on a Hammond. Possibly the screen and controls should detachable so that they sit in a pocket normally but can be detached and placed on top of a second board when stacked. Or they could be in front of the keyboard - this would limit screen size of course, but a secondary screen that just showed patch and bank would be sufficient if a big screen was felt to be essential somewhere.

Of course, if the Promega technology was available as a module, this would be cool too and means you could mount the module where you can do patch changes directly.
Posted by: hermanjoe

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/19/04 01:26 PM

I just bought a GEM Promega 3, I actually started this thread. I never thought it would get this big.
I played the board in a rehearsal yesterdat. I play modern Jazz, and fusion.
The action could be better. I honestly prefer the action on the Roland A-90. The Promega is a little light, and there is a sharpness top the keys that scrapes your fingers when you play.

This is a very solid board, I love the look, and the layout is very simple when it comes to picking sounds and layering them.

At first listen I am impressed with the rhodes sounds, The pianos are ok. I know the Promega is known for the best pianos but I have to say I think the Roland And Yamaha stuff sounds better.

I also find the effects section limited, and not very good. The reverbs are ok, but the other effects are not too impresssive. You can layer different types of reverb with one other effect like chorus or flanger ect...

Anyway. I tthink I am going to return the board. I think for what i payed for it I should get more features and sounds. The rhodes patch is pretty much the only real usable sound for me.
I am checkiong out the Roland Fantom s 88, Rd-700 and the Kurzweil PC2x.
Posted by: burningbusch

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/19/04 01:26 PM

Dave, ProMega 3 dealer in Seattle?

Busch.
Posted by: mooghead

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/19/04 02:41 PM

The Drake engine in a Yamaha P90 format would be killer.

128 notes poliphony, some grand sounds, rhodes, wurly, clavi, dx7 piano, Eq, reverb, chorus, flanger, overdrive.

Does a pianist need more?

The shape and size of a P90 and a weight under 20 kgs.

The real time control of the Promega 3 is great but as someone said above (and the link posted shows it) you can't have the two manuals near each other as on an organ...and to me, the position of the 2 keyboards, connected with playing seated is a necessary condition for my technique.

Yep, EMO would rule even playing lying on his stomach and playing reversed-hands with his eyes closed...an amateur like me needs perfect conditions and the Promega don't offer this, at least with a keyboard on top.

If there was a P90-Promega I would buy it...and would stack a Voyager on top of it :-)

Ciao.
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/19/04 03:57 PM

Hello All,

The design of the Promega 2 was inspired by those people that want to use a double tier stand and a second keyboard above the piano. It is as slim a profile as most other instruments available. There is no reason why the top keyboard could not be placed above the Promega 2 so that the two keyboards were closer together. All you really need to get to is the patch change buttons which have been placed front most on the panel near the keyboard so they won’t be covered by a top keyboard. If you are at a seated position, you probably would still be able to access the volume faders, etc. on the front panel.

If you looked at the picture of my setup http://www.generalmusic.us/WDM%20Data/Dave\'s%20photos/Band%20Shot.jpg you will have noticed that the top keyboard is placed pretty far back from the Promega 2. This is the way I like my setup. I stand when I play because a lot of times I am conducting the band and it is easier to do standing up. For me, while standing, it is more comfortable to have the top keyboard a little farther away. If I am doing gigs where sitting is in order, I bring the top keyboard closer.

NOTE: I did not join this forum in an effort to do some form of brainwashing the members into rushing out and purchasing a GEM product. Yes, when asked or if the opportunity presents itself, I will promote our products. That seems reasonable and is easy because I genuinely like the instruments we manufacture.

I did join for the specific purpose of helping owners of GEM products when they need it. It seems that more times than not, if someone has a question/problem about an instrument, they will post it on a forum rather than contact the manufacturer’s product support team for help. Maybe it is because they are not used to having fast, reliable support directly from the manufacturer. Or it might just be because the forum members are kind of like extended family and they are more comfortable conversing with their online friends. The reason really isn’t important, what is important is that I will be around if needed or called upon.

Some of you have said that you love the Promega and others have stated that you prefer something else. That is the way it should be. It would be pretty boring musically if everyone used/sounded the same. Everyone hears things differently and has differing tastes. Personally, I love the Promega. When playing solo piano especially, there is not another piano that produces as close an emulation of a real acoustic piano as the Promega. That is fact, not opinion. No other instrument on the market creates the additional overtones associated with un-dampened strings being further energized by newly struck keys or has the other physical models that the Promega features. Is this important? Well, it is to me. Those extra subtleties are part of what makes a piano acoustic in the first place. That doesn’t mean it has to be important to you. If your music doesn’t require the type of realism that the Promega offers, that’s OK.

Finally, I have been around keyboards, acoustic, analog and digital for years. I kick pedals when playing my B3, and I have a Lava Lamp sitting on top of my Rhodes Suitcase 73. My first synth was a kit from PAIA back in the 70’s. Since then I have owned/used just about every popular and not so popular keyboard that has come to market. Anytime I can help someone out who has a question about any brand/model that I am familiar with they will hear from me. Hopefully the other members of this forum will welcome me into their computers not as an employee from a keyboard company, but as a friend.

Sincerely,

Dave McMahan
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/19/04 04:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mooghead:

The shape and size of a P90 and a weight under 20 kgs.

If there was a P90-Promega I would buy it...and would stack a Voyager on top of it :-)

Ciao.
To make the comparison easier:

Promega 2:
Dimensions 1281mm x 146mm x 420mm / 50.4" x 5.7" x 16.5"
Weight 25Kg / 55 lbs.

P90:
Dimensions 1347mm x 128mm x 285mm / 53" x 5" x 11.25"
Weight 16.9kg / 37.3 lbs

The Promega is over 2 inches less in width than the P90, not quite an inch higher and just over 5 inches deeper. The Promega is not quite 18 pounds heavier that the P90.

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: guestuser@guestuser.com

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/19/04 04:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DaveMcM:
When playing solo piano especially, there is not another piano that produces as close an emulation of a real acoustic piano as the Promega. That is fact, not opinion.
Really? It sure sounds like an opinion to me.
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/19/04 04:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Guest User:
Quote:
Originally posted by DaveMcM:
When playing solo piano especially, there is not another piano that produces as close an emulation of a real acoustic piano as the Promega. That is fact, not opinion.
Really? It sure sounds like an opinion to me.
Sorry, you're right. I should have worded that better. The "fact" part has to do with the next sentence that I'll repeat here;
No other instrument on the market creates the additional overtones associated with un-dampened strings being further energized by newly struck keys or has the other physical models that the Promega features.

Thanks for pointing that out.

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/19/04 07:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by burningbusch:
Dave, ProMega 3 dealer in Seattle?

Busch.
Hey Busch,

Sorry that took a while. The Generalmusic dealer in the Seattle area is Hugo Helmers Music in Mount Vernon. Here is the address and contact info;
Hugo Helmer Music Incorporated
701 South 1st Street, Mt Vernon, WA 98273
Tel: (360) 336-6109

Please let me know how this works out.

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: marino

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/19/04 08:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Byrdman:
if the Promega technology was available as a module, this would be cool.
Absolutely! In fact, I've waited for more than a year for a Promega module to appear, before I resigned myself and bought a Kurzweil MicroEnsemble (which is, BTW, very good for live use even though I wouldn't record with it).

That said, if Gem would decide to design a lighter/smaller version of the Promega, say 76-key, the same aftertouch keyboard, same piano sounds, wheels, and some MIDI master capabilities, I would buy it the next minute. \:D

Also, I'm happy to finally see a *good* Italian instrument well-represented in the USA. It didn't happen often in the past...
Posted by: p120dUdE

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/19/04 11:33 PM

Quote:
No other instrument on the market creates the additional overtones associated with un-dampened strings being further energized by newly struck keys
My p120 does.
Posted by: Byrdman

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/20/04 01:56 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DaveMcM:
Hello All,

NOTE: I did not join this forum in an effort to do some form of brainwashing the members into rushing out and purchasing a GEM product.
We have a number of people who work for manufacturers here on the board and I believe we all value their presence. You have been up-front about your affiliation and given that and the fact that you are giving us real information, not just marketingese, makes you welcome.

In return we'll be frank about what we want to see in the products we buy. When I finally get to try one of these boards, I'll post how I feel about the sounds. Personally I have yet to find a board that I think is perfect out of the box. Of the Triton extreme, the S90, and the new 88 key fantom , I like the bass of one, the mid-range of another, and the high end of a third (I don't remember which was which). So I am picky and so are a lot of the other posters.

So I hope we can give you some feedback that will help GEM continue to improve their products in return.
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/20/04 11:59 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Byrdman:
You have been up-front about your affiliation and given that and the fact that you are giving us real information, not just marketingese, makes you welcome.
Thanks a lot. I strive to be up front and honest in what I post. If I ever come off as sounding anything but that, feel free to call me on it.

Quote:
In return we'll be frank about what we want to see in the products we buy. So I am picky and so are a lot of the other posters.

So I hope we can give you some feedback that will help GEM continue to improve their products in return.
That's great. Feedback, good and bad is what helps to improve products. I look forward to sharing thoughts with everyone in the future.

Best Regards,

Dave McMahan
Posted by: guestuser@guestuser.com

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/22/04 01:11 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DaveMcM:
Sorry, you're right. I should have worded that better. The "fact" part has to do with the next sentence that I'll repeat here;
No other instrument on the market creates the additional overtones associated with un-dampened strings being further energized by newly struck keys or has the other physical models that the Promega features.

Thanks for pointing that out.
Best Regards,
Dave
I think other manufacturers have instruments that 'create additional overtones associated with un-dampened strings being further energized by newly struck keys', but they probably do it in a different way from you guys. Yamahas, for instance, have 'sustain samples', which essentially achieves the same thing. You'll probably argue that GEM has a better way of achieving it. Maybe it does, but the proof of the pudding is in how good the end result sounds. So, you'll have to trust us - if it really does sound better than everything else on the market, we'll know when we hear it!

As for the physical models, other mfr's also do have instruments with physically modelled organs and electric pianos and wind instruments. Hopefully, yours sounds better, but again, I'll have to hear it before I can decide
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/22/04 11:52 AM

Quote:
Hopefully, yours sounds better, but again, I'll have to hear it before I can decide
Hello Richard,

Fair enough.

BTW, I took a look at you site, it is very nice. I tried to listen to the RealAudio demos but couldn't get them to play. I think the trouble is on my end. I was able to listen to the windows media tracks from the State of Mind CD and they sound great.

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: guestuser@guestuser.com

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/22/04 02:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DaveMcM:
BTW, I took a look at you site, it is very nice. I tried to listen to the RealAudio demos but couldn't get them to play. I think the trouble is on my end. I was able to listen to the windows media tracks from the State of Mind CD and they sound great.

Best Regards,

Dave
Thanks for the heads-up, Dave. I just tried it myself, and I'm also having a problem getting it to play. I'll loook into this.
Posted by: c4

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/22/04 02:55 PM

for what its worth i have a 2 tiered stand and have the promega 3 on bottom and a nord electro on top- its easier to get to see and get to the controls on this set up then when I had an s90 on the bottom. The s90 was a nightmare on a dark stage...
Posted by: mooghead

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/22/04 03:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by c4:
for what its worth i have a 2 tiered stand and have the promega 3 on bottom and a nord electro on top- its easier to get to see and get to the controls on this set up then when I had an s90 on the bottom. The s90 was a nightmare on a dark stage...
Could you post a picture of this set up?

Thanks \:\)
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/22/04 05:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by c4:
for what its worth i have a 2 tiered stand and have the promega 3 on bottom and a nord electro on top- its easier to get to see and get to the controls on this set up then when I had an s90 on the bottom. The s90 was a nightmare on a dark stage...
Hi,

Ditto to what mooghead said. I would love to see your set-up.

Dave McMahan
Posted by: coyote

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/22/04 05:11 PM

I would ask, no, BEG, for a module version of the Promega 3! The control layout of this board does not allow one to stack another board on top - a mistake for such a big, heavy board.

Or maybe you could consider a re-packaging concept similar to the Rhodes MK80, where there is "deck space" for keyboard stacking?? \:\)

Quote:
Originally posted by GEM-PaulD:
I am the National Sales Manager for Generalmusic, Please contact me personally if you are indeed seeking out a dealer in your area, where you can try the Promega piano out.

Paul Davis
PaulD@Generalmusic.us
Posted by: Synthoid

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/22/04 06:32 PM

Dave, are there any GEM dealers near Lancaster or Philadelphia, PA?

Thanks.
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/22/04 11:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Synthoid:
Dave, are there any GEM dealers near Lancaster or Philadelphia, PA?

Thanks.
Hi Synthoid,

Let me find out for you and I will post back here tomorrow.

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: Synthoid

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/23/04 05:18 PM

OK....I'm looking forward to a "test drive" if at all possible.
Posted by: hermanjoe

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/23/04 07:40 PM

I have had my promega for about a week now. I have to say I like it more and more each day. I think I'll atemp a mini review for anyone interested in this thing.
As I said before on this thread my first thoughts were mixed with the promega, I was thinking of taking it back, but it continued to grow on me.
The manual is a breeze to get through. It's short, clear and to the point. Its easy to begin immediatly using the keyboard and layering sounds and effects. The layout of the keyboard is clear and really makes real time patch switching and effect editing very easy.
Sound quality of pianos and rhodes is outstanding. The modeling technology used creates string resonance a truly realistic piano sound dynamically. The piano sound is consistant throughout the keyboard. I always hear dramtic changes in tone on other boards from high to low that seems unatural.
The rhodes sounds are great. That sound is completly modeled vs. the piano that combines sampling and modeling technology.
Clav is also very good. I think the Nord electro 2 has a better clav sound. I say this because the electro has more options for pickup configurations of the clav. The promega does not. Nonetheless its still sounds great. The wurly is ok. I have heard better.
The dx rhodes and electric grand piano are both very nice. Espeacially layered with a pad.
Generally about half the pads are usable. Mostly as a layer with piano and E.P.'s I think of the pads as a bonus because what your really paying for is top notch piano and rhodes sounds.
The action is very nice. Not as stiff as yamaha but smooth and easy to play. Compares to my Roland A-90ex. I like the Promega better.
Bottom line. This is a great, high quality intrument. I give it a 9.5 out of 10.
You can check out the Promega 3 in action on Herbie Hancocks DVD "Future To Future" Live.
Posted by: hermanjoe

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/24/04 01:26 PM

I think I have to correct myself here. I said Herbie Hancock uses a GEM promega 3 in his Future to Future Live DVD. I actually think hes using something else. Maybe the signature Promega they made for him. I don't know. If anyone knows please pass it along.
Thanks
Posted by: Synthoid

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/24/04 01:40 PM

So um......about those dealers here in PA?
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/24/04 01:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Synthoid:
So um......about those dealers here in PA?
Hi,

As soon as I saw your request, I sent an e-mail to our Sales Manager to find out the answer. I have not heard back yet and just discovered he has been on the road.

I will call him today and hopefully be back to you soon. Sorry.

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: guestuser@guestuser.com

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/24/04 03:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DaveMcM:
BTW, I took a look at you site, it is very nice. I tried to listen to the RealAudio demos but couldn't get them to play. I think the trouble is on my end. I was able to listen to the windows media tracks from the State of Mind CD and they sound great.

Best Regards,
Dave
Dave, if you're still interested, those on-line RealAudio samples are working properly now.
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/24/04 04:45 PM

Quote:
Dave, if you're still interested, those on-line RealAudio samples are working properly now.
Thanks Richard,

I am deep in the middle of editing a users manual and a training video at the moment. What fun! It will be nice to listen to some great music later today when I get to the breaking point if you know what I mean.

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/24/04 05:01 PM

Synthoid, please check your PM.

Thanks,

Dave
Posted by: Synthoid

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/24/04 07:17 PM

Dave, I wasn't expecting anything in Lancaster, PA....but what about Philadelphia?

Thanks.
Posted by: p120dUdE

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/24/04 11:12 PM

I have to say, Dave, that the styling on the Promega series is just plain weird . I mean, it looks like it is from space. This is just my opinion, of course, but im just saying it looks like a space machine.

I have to say that the action and pianos on the promega series are not impressing IMO. When I played it, I didnt like the key to sound connection. I also dont like the pianos on the Promegas because they are Fazoli Grands and Uprights, which I strongly dislike. This is personal preference.

Regards,
p120dUdE
Posted by: hermanjoe

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/24/04 11:33 PM

I have played the p120 and other yamah p series. i like them. The piano has a compressed sound that sticks out to me. A lot of people like this sound. I prefer the steinway sound myself. Anyway I think the promega falls between the yamaha and a steinway. The promega has a less compressed and more natural sound. Like you said, its personal. I would like to have a p250 as well. I dig the action on the Promega for playing jazz. Gives me the light stacatto sound, not tendonitis!!
Posted by: Rasmus-DK

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/25/04 08:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by p120dUdE:
I have to say, Dave, that the styling on the Promega series is just plain weird . I mean, it looks like it is from space. This is just my opinion, of course, but im just saying it looks like a space machine.

I think that was one of the less technical reasons as to why they released the Promega 2 - more "traditional" design but keeping all the user interface elements and cutting a few features so that we can sell it cheaper as well.. \:\)

Posted by: Immo

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/25/04 01:22 PM

I'm wondering if anyone knows how the 04_jazz.mp3 and 06_rhod1.mp3 sample on the generalmusic.us site was made? Mostly how the drum sounds were added (cymbol, rim knocks, etc.).

I assume these sounds were made on the Promega, although I suppose they could have been made otherwise, but that seems like it would be cheating.

Also, were these samples made in one session, as in two hands once through?
Posted by: c4

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/25/04 03:34 PM

the only drum sound on the pro mega is a ride cymbal layered on a bass guitar. It is not designed as a workstation.
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/26/04 12:06 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Immordino:
I'm wondering if anyone knows how the 04_jazz.mp3 and 06_rhod1.mp3 sample on the generalmusic.us site was made? Mostly how the drum sounds were added (cymbol, rim knocks, etc.).

I assume these sounds were made on the Promega, although I suppose they could have been made otherwise, but that seems like it would be cheating.

Also, were these samples made in one session, as in two hands once through?
The additional drum sounds that you hear are coming from the Promega. They were put there for the specific purpose of spicing up the demos just to get a bit of a feel for how those sounds would come across in an ensemble situation.

Honestly, I am not sure if they can be accessed or not. But I have sent an e-mail to the product manager to find out. As soon as I hear anything, I will let you know.

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: Synthoid

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/26/04 04:21 PM

Dave....any word yet on GEM dealers in Philadelphia, PA (or surrounding area?)

Sigh. \:\(
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/26/04 05:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Synthoid:
Dave....any word yet on GEM dealers in Philadelphia, PA (or surrounding area?)

Sigh. \:\(
Hi,

Sorry, I truly am working on it. I will be back with you ASAP.

Best Regards,

Dave

P.S. Maybe I just need to make a trip out that direction and visit some old (and new) friends. And pack a Promega 3 of course.
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/26/04 11:45 PM

Synthoid, you have a PM.

Dave McMahan
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/27/04 01:16 AM

I purchased a Promega3 four days ago. After renting countless Yamahas, Rolands, Korgs, and Kurzweils over the years, I'm convinced it's by far the best keyboard for classical gigs on the planet. Who else makes a stage piano with full sostenuto, a soft pedal that's more effective than your acoustic, half pedalling that doesn't warp out, pan control (now that's cool!)low pass filter (that's cool too, now that I know what it does), on board EQ, I mean, I'm discovering that if there's anything, and I mean anything, about any of the sounds on this instrument that you don't like, just change it! Not to mention there's 100 varying degrees of touch control, although I have to say "normal" works for me.

I love the heads-up angle of the control panel. No more leaning over and peering into a tiny little screen on a badly lit stage.

A good man once reminded me that the sound of a piano surrounds you. You don't want a single source keyboard amp for this one.. Stereo speakers are a must.

For any Canadians interested, Merriam Music in Oakville Ontario now carries GEM. Their number is 905.829.2020. I paid CA$2,895 for the PM3, $149 for the 3-pedal unit, and $189 for the trolley case.

Sue
Posted by: Jazz+

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/27/04 02:41 AM

The Promega 3 piano plays and sound better than the Yamaha P250 piano sound???
Posted by: p120dUdE

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/27/04 02:50 AM

I feel that the GEM Promega Pianos aren't very good. I feel that they are not full and rich and that they have a weird sound to them, since they are Fazoli's. I strongly dislike Fazoli's. I also feel the action is not comfortable, partly because it is manufactured by Fatar. The key to sound connection is not good either.

IMO, the Yamaha p120's superb 22 MB Pianos and superb Graded Hammer Action kick all the pianos butts out there, including the GEM Promega Series.

Regards,
p120dUdE
Posted by: hermanjoe

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/27/04 03:54 AM

Didn't you mention that already?
Feature to feature, the promega is far superior as an instrument. The resonance is modeled, not sampled. It has 128mb RAM, an 8 band EQ, Polyphony up the ass. Ability to layer 4 sounds at once. Great effects. Need I say more...
The only other board I'd consider would be a Yamaha S-90 with the piano expansion installed.
Posted by: p120dUdE

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/27/04 04:16 AM

Quote:
Didn't you mention that already?
Yes, I did, but not as much as I just explained it in the last post.

Quote:
Feature to feature, the promega is far superior as an instrument.
No, it's not. This is an opinion, not a fact. The Promega is not far superior as an instrument.

Quote:
The resonance is modeled, not sampled.
That doesn't matter. The resonance on my p120 sounds absolutely superb, it's beatiful. I personally dont like Physical Modelling. I love Yamaha's DDS Sampling Sound Engine.

Quote:
It has 128mb RAM, an 8 band EQ, Polyphony up the ass. Ability to layer 4 sounds at once. Great effects. Need I say more...
None of those Features are useful to me, nor are they important to me. I could care less about the equalizer and the ability to layer 4 sounds. And please, don't say more.... \:\)

This all is personal opinion, and I just dont like the GEM's, no matter what kind of technology they have. They're technology means nothing to me.

Regards,
p120dUdE
Posted by: hermanjoe

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/27/04 04:59 AM

All I'm saying is that it's important to recognize good features of an instrument. I am very ciritcal of my gear. I appreciate yamaha as a company they maek a lot of good equiptment, a lot of which I have tried and used happily, but its not the only stuff out there and it benificial for all of sharing info on gear to point out facts good and bad, and to give credit where credit is due.
An 8 band EQ is critical, espeacially if you need to cut through a mix of band. Mixing is mainly about eq and less about volume.
Personally I'd like to own a Yamaha P250 and Gem Promega 3 but I can't afford it right now. I Had to go with what I need at the moment, and feature to feature the Promega did it for me.
Don't take my comments as a personal attack. I have no attachment to any gear. I just evaluate as unbaised as I can.
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/27/04 10:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by p120dUdE:
[QB]I feel that the GEM Promega Pianos aren't very good. I feel that they are not full and rich and that they have a weird sound to them, since they are Fazoli's. I strongly dislike Fazoli's. I also feel the action is not comfortable, partly because it is manufactured by Fatar. The key to sound connection is not good either.
QB]
Just to clear a couple of things up;

The 10'6" Fazioli concert grand is only one of the pianos available. There is also a 9' Steinway concert grand, and old upright, a real honky-tonk piano that was actually found at a real honky-tonk and sampled there. All of these pianos are entirely different samples, not just the same samples that have been re-EQ’ed with a different parameter set. You don't Fazioli pianos, OK. What about Steinway.

One thing that kind of confuses me is that you like Yamaha grand pianos which have a typically bright sound. The Fazioli also has a bright sound along with the rich full tone associated with the Fazioli concert pianos.

Regarding the Fatar keybed. Keyboard feel is absolutely an individual thing. Some like heavier actions, some like a lighter action with many in between. Yes, the Promega keybed is manufactured by Fatar. Fatar manufactures keybeds for many of the keyboard manufacturers. What is important to note is the Promega 3 keybed is unique to the Promega 3. The designers at Generalmusic made specification changes to an existing keybed and then Fatar put those changes into production for the Promega 3.

Fazioli, Fatar, GEM...maybe you just ate too much pasta as a child and now you shy away from anything Italian. \:\) Just a thought.

Dave McMahan
Posted by: p120dUdE

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/27/04 11:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DaveMcM:
Quote:
Originally posted by p120dUdE:
[QB]I feel that the GEM Promega Pianos aren't very good. I feel that they are not full and rich and that they have a weird sound to them, since they are Fazoli's. I strongly dislike Fazoli's. I also feel the action is not comfortable, partly because it is manufactured by Fatar. The key to sound connection is not good either.
QB]
Just to clear a couple of things up;

The 10'6" Fazioli concert grand is only one of the pianos available. There is also a 9' Steinway concert grand, and old upright, a real honky-tonk piano that was actually found at a real honky-tonk and sampled there. All of these pianos are entirely different samples, not just the same samples that have been re-EQ’ed with a different parameter set. You don't Fazioli pianos, OK. What about Steinway.

One thing that kind of confuses me is that you like Yamaha grand pianos which have a typically bright sound. The Fazioli also has a bright sound along with the rich full tone associated with the Fazioli concert pianos.

Regarding the Fatar keybed. Keyboard feel is absolutely an individual thing. Some like heavier actions, some like a lighter action with many in between. Yes, the Promega keybed is manufactured by Fatar. Fatar manufactures keybeds for many of the keyboard manufacturers. What is important to note is the Promega 3 keybed is unique to the Promega 3. The designers at Generalmusic made specification changes to an existing keybed and then Fatar put those changes into production for the Promega 3.

Fazioli, Fatar, GEM...maybe you just ate too much pasta as a child and now you shy away from anything Italian. \:\) Just a thought.

Dave McMahan
Dave, I know you work at GEM and you want to make your products always look great, but I dont like your products. I didnt eat too much "pasta" as a child. This is my personal opinion, I really dont like your products.

As for the pianos, I stand corrected about that they are not all Fazoli's, I thought they were. But I dont like Steinway's either. I dont like any of the pianos on the promega Series. This is strictly personal opinion and preference. I feel that the pianos on the Promega are not great.

Actually, I find that Yamaha has a Warm and Beatiful sound, very full and rich. Dave, you mentioned the Fazolis are bright too, so you thought it's funny that I dont like them. That has nothing to with why I dont like them. I dont like Fazoli's because I dont like the character of their sound, and they are not that full and rich.

Dave, I dont like Italian brands. I just dont like their products, and I dont like GEM's either.

Regards,
p120dUdE
Posted by: guestuser@guestuser.com

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/27/04 12:40 PM

P120dude, what brand of pocket protector is your favourite? Just curious, because I don't think Yamaha makes them.
Posted by: c4

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/27/04 12:58 PM

I owned a p250 and I like the pro mega 3 better..
IMO the p250 is somewhat a one trick pony where as the pro mega 3 is much more versatile...
Posted by: Chaso DeChaso

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/27/04 01:17 PM

Some people would only be happy if the Promega 3 ditched those silly Fazioli and Steinway samples and included a P120 sample.
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/27/04 02:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Chaso DeChaso:
Some people would only be happy if the Promega 3 ditched those silly Fazioli and Steinway samples and included a P120 sample.
Hmmm!?!
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/27/04 02:55 PM

Originally posted by p120dUdE:
Quote:
Dave, I know you work at GEM and you want to make your products always look great, but I dont like your products.
Like I said before, you don’t have to like our products. It’s OK.

Quote:
I didnt eat too much "pasta" as a child
Just in case you missed it the first time… \:\) (means I was joking). Sorry if it offended you.

Quote:
As for the pianos, I stand corrected about that they are not all Fazoli's, I thought they were. But I dont like Steinway's either.
I kind of figured that would be the case. Due to the completely different character and response of sound compared to a Yamaha, of course.

Quote:
Dave, I dont like Italian brands. I just dont like their products, and I dont like GEM's either.
I kind of figured that out as well.
--------------------

I think everyone by now is pretty sure that you detest the Promega 3 and everything Italian. So your task is complete. Go have a cool beverage.

Please keep in mind that I have never criticized any other brand or person for liking another brand. To each his own. Peace.

Dave McMahan
Posted by: iMember

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/27/04 03:27 PM

A couple of Promega 3 questions:

1. I can't get my ev-5 expression pedal to work with the promega, and given that this probably is the most used exp pedal around I figured it should. Has anybody else tried it?

2. I'm using a roland xv-5050 which I control with the promega. I've been unable to change programs over midi (using LSB,MSB and program change), but I get no response. However, if I change sounds on the promega using the knobs the XV receives a program change, but that's not satisfactory given that I can only select the first 12 sounds on the XV. Has anybody else tried something similar?

I'm using the latest upgraded print-card/mainboard (or what's it called).
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/27/04 03:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by iMember:
A couple of Promega 3 questions:

1. I can't get my ev-5 expression pedal to work with the promega, and given that this probably is the most used exp pedal around I figured it should. Has anybody else tried it?

2. I'm using a roland xv-5050 which I control with the promega. I've been unable to change programs over midi (using LSB,MSB and program change), but I get no response. However, if I change sounds on the promega using the knobs the XV receives a program change, but that's not satisfactory given that I can only select the first 12 sounds on the XV. Has anybody else tried something similar?

I'm using the latest upgraded print-card/mainboard (or what's it called).
Hi, I think I have an EV5 around here somewhere. Give me a chance to dig it up and I will try it on my Promega 3. I will also check the out the program change situation and let you know the results.

Please give me a day to work on this. I have to find the EV5 which has been stored in a deep dark corner of my basement.

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: hermanjoe

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/27/04 04:01 PM

Dave,

Is the Steinway sample St. Grand 1 and 2?
Just curious. Those are the piano sound I graviated towards.

Thanks
Posted by: twbrzkdm007

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/27/04 04:06 PM

There used to be this other guy posting here who just loved Yamaha pianos (I think he owned many models but loved the P90 most) who got into this insane, neverending discussion regarding the existance or non-existance of a mono piano sample in the P250. I think that guy got banned in the end. Well now we have P120dude and it's a little like deja vu. Yes, P120dude we know you don't like GEM, its design and sound or any equipment from Italy and that the P120 has sympathetic resonance (although an expert from Yamaha says it doesn't). I just don't get why you continually need to assert your negative views over and over again. I think you have made your views clear. The Promega is a great instrument (I had a chance to play at the NAMM show and I was very impressed) AND the Yamaha P series is great too. I own a Kuzweil PC2x and I think that's a great instrument. Thankfully there exists something called diversity and choice in the marketplace. For some users the Promega will be the right product and for others not. I for one appreciate having somebody from GEM here on the board discuss the specifics regarding the Promega (just like I enjoy reading anything Mike Martin has to say about Yamaha gear).
All I ask is that you, P120dude, maybe just abstain from repeating yourself as it's creating a rather negative vibe. It really seems you are not open to any views that will change your mind and I find that unfortunate. That's of course just my opinion.
Posted by: p120dUdE

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/27/04 04:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by twbrzkdm007:
There used to be this other guy posting here who just loved Yamaha pianos (I think he owned many models but loved the P90 most) who got into this insane, neverending discussion regarding the existance or non-existance of a mono piano sample in the P250. I think that guy got banned in the end. Well now we have P120dude and it's a little like deja vu. Yes, P120dude we know you don't like GEM, its design and sound or any equipment from Italy and that the P120 has sympathetic resonance (although an expert from Yamaha says it doesn't). I just don't get why you continually need to assert your negative views over and over again. I think you have made your views clear. The Promega is a great instrument (I had a chance to play at the NAMM show and I was very impressed) AND the Yamaha P series is great too. I own a Kuzweil PC2x and I think that's a great instrument. Thankfully there exists something called diversity and choice in the marketplace. For some users the Promega will be the right product and for others not. I for one appreciate having somebody from GEM here on the board discuss the specifics regarding the Promega (just like I enjoy reading anything Mike Martin has to say about Yamaha gear).
All I ask is that you, P120dude, maybe just abstain from repeating yourself as it's creating a rather negative vibe. It really seems you are not open to any views that will change your mind and I find that unfortunate. That's of course just my opinion.
I am open to to many views, actually. But the Promega is not one of them. Someone keeps constantly saying somthing stupid, so I feel as if I have to respond with my opinion over and over again.

And please, drop the string resonance topic, because I know for a fact that the p120 has string resonance.

Regards,
p120dUdE
Posted by: marino

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/27/04 04:22 PM

Dude, since you don't like *any* Italian instrument, I'll make a plea: If you ever came across an Elka Synthex, give it to me. Thank you.
Posted by: twbrzkdm007

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/27/04 04:24 PM

Dude,
you really left yourself wide open on this one..... somebody repeatedly saying something stupid....?? I really hope you weren't referring of Dave from GEM because that would really be uncalled for. Again, you can like the Promega or not but I don't think Dave has said anything stupid. Quite the contrary, he's been very informative.
Posted by: p120dUdE

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/27/04 04:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by twbrzkdm007:
Dude,
you really left yourself wide open on this one..... somebody repeatedly saying something stupid....?? I really hope you weren't referring of Dave from GEM because that would really be uncalled for. Again, you can like the Promega or not but I don't think Dave has said anything stupid. Quite the contrary, he's been very informative.
I wasnt reffering to Dave, why would I? He has really not made any stupid comments.

Regards,
p120dUdE
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/27/04 04:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by hermanjoe:
Dave,

Is the Steinway sample St. Grand 1 and 2?
Just curious. Those are the piano sound I graviated towards.

Thanks
Hi hermanjoe,

St. Grand 2 is the Steinway. Select Preset A2 (9' concert) and notice which piano sound is selected.

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: hermanjoe

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/27/04 04:45 PM

Thanks again
Posted by: GEM-PaulD

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/28/04 12:07 AM

First off, I am sorry that I haven't been watching this thread like my counter part DaveMcM. I want everyone to know that Generalmusic is listening, and making every effort to build the best instruments possible. I know we can't please everyone... p120dude, I am honestly and sincerly glad that you are enjoying your instrument, and that is all that counts, right?

I saw a comment that Herbie Hancock plays Promega 3, and I understand he does (Herbie Hancock is not an endorser of Generalmusic, nor has any connection with Generalmusic), and also just for the record we did not build a special instrument for Herbie Hancock, he owns a production instrument. There are many, very well known artists that play the promega 3 (Rick Wakeman, Keith Emmerson to name just a couple). I mention those two, as they did have input on the design of this instrument.

If you are enjoying what you own, so be it, make music... those that are looking for something diffrent, I welcome you to check out the Promega 3 (It's not for everyone, but it's what I play on.)
Posted by: Jazz+

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/28/04 02:46 AM

I saw Herbie last week and he was playing a Steinway grand. He own many keyboards by Kurzweil, Roland, Yamaha, Arp, Moog, Rhodes and Promega. He doesn't use anything but a real piano for the acoustic piano sound.
Posted by: hermanjoe

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/28/04 03:24 AM

I think its great a company takes the time to check these threads and cares about the features keyboard players want and need. That makes me feel good about shelling out the doe for what I think is the perfect product for me.

And yes, everytime I have seen Herbie he is playing his Steinway grand. He is the man.
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/28/04 04:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by hermanjoe:
I think its great a company takes the time to check these threads and cares about the features keyboard players want and need. That makes me feel good about shelling out the doe for what I think is the perfect product for me.
You said it!!
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/28/04 11:57 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by wantpromega3:
Quote:
Originally posted by hermanjoe:
I think its great a company takes the time to check these threads and cares about the features keyboard players want and need. That makes me feel good about shelling out the doe for what I think is the perfect product for me.
You said it!!
Thanks guys.

Dave
Posted by: c4

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/28/04 01:35 PM

I agree- Dave answered some technical questions I had awhile back via email within the hour I sent them. Definitely the most timely support from a keyboard manufacturer I have encountered!
Posted by: Rasmus-DK

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/28/04 07:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by p120dUdE:
[QUOTE]
Dave, I dont like Italian brands. I just dont like their products, and I dont like GEM's either.

Regards,
p120dUdE
Okay - what if you tried a stage piano you hadn't tried before (and you didn't know where it was made beforehand) - eg. the new Ketron GP-10

- and you really liked it - would you change your mind when you find out that it was made in Italy by an Italian manufacturer...? (as the Ketron line..)

And is it the fact that the piano is made by an Italian manufacturer or the fact that it is made in Italy...? - I ask because eg. both the Korg SP-200 and SP-300 + their home-piano line and the Roland HP and FP (eg. the FP-2 and the FP-3, AFAIK)lines are made in Italy...
I'm not trying to be inpolite in any way - just wondering..
Posted by: marino

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/28/04 11:27 PM

And don't even mention that many (and I mean *many*) Roland products are *designed* here - by the folks who used to work at Siel (now Roland Italy).
Posted by: Rasmus-DK

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/29/04 08:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by marino:
And don't even mention that many (and I mean *many*) Roland products are *designed* here - by the folks who used to work at Siel (now Roland Italy).
Yep, I know - I have spoken to the former Danish Siel distributor about this a couple of times...
Posted by: Synthoid

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/29/04 06:49 PM

Very disappointed there are no GEM dealers anywhere in SE Pennsylvania.
Posted by: Chaso DeChaso

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/29/04 07:04 PM

That Ketron looks a lot like a Roland FP. Hmm...

About GEM not having dealers local (to SE PA), I think the issue is they are just starting out in the USA. For such a large purchase, I would think it would be worth travelling to the nearest major metropolis.

My own concern was the servicing issue. The Promega 3 with motorized faders and all that seems like it might require service at some point and I'd hate not to be able to find service locally where no one has heard of it. Can any of the GEM folks comment on the mechanical reliability or warranty rates thus far in Europe where it's been selling for a little while now?

Chaso
Posted by: Immo

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/29/04 07:39 PM

I think the nearest Metropolis would be NYC (depending on your definition), which I have been informed has no dealers. I'd have to travel to CT to go to a dealer (none in all of NJ either I believe).

Still thinking about getting one all the same...
Posted by: Anomaly

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/29/04 07:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Synthoid:
Very disappointed there are no GEM dealers anywhere in SE Pennsylvania.
I know that Robert M Sides Music in Williamsport, PA used to sell them. Not sure if they still do. Dont know their number. but you can google for it. Ask for Chris Bovard. If they have one, he is a really good guy and will give you a good deal.
Posted by: konaboy

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/29/04 07:51 PM

I think it's wonderful to have such knowledgeable and humble representatives from GEM and YAMAHA on these boards. Thanks very much guys.

I've played on the GEM 3 a couple of times in music shops. I would say that the sounds and action are better than anything else I have auditioned. However, I can't help being put off by all those motorized faders and that large very unportable case design. I feel that the motors are unncessary and worry that they may cause trouble after many years of use, plus it all adds to the complexity, cost and weight.

I'm sure I'm not alone... Maybe emerson & wakeman dig all those gizmo's but I'm not so sure about the rest of us \:D

How about a new version, same sounds but repackaged into a smaller lighter body, with conventional buttons and knobs?
Posted by: Rasmus-DK

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/29/04 08:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by konaboy:
I think it's wonderful to have such knowledgeable and humble representatives from GEM and YAMAHA on these boards. Thanks very much guys.

I've played on the GEM 3 a couple of times in music shops. I would say that the sounds and action are better than anything else I have auditioned. However, I can't help being put off by all those motorized faders and that large very unportable case design. I feel that the motors are unncessary and worry that they may cause trouble after many years of use, plus it all adds to the complexity, cost and weight.

I'm sure I'm not alone... Maybe emerson & wakeman dig all those gizmo's but I'm not so sure about the rest of us \:D

How about a new version, same sounds but repackaged into a smaller lighter body, with conventional buttons and knobs?
How about the Promega 2...? - It's been out in Europe for over a year...And yeah, the Promega 3 has been out in Europe since spring 2002 - I don't know anything about the service reports, though..


Also - check out the entire GEM line at:
http://www.generalmusic.com (the official Italian/World site..)

And Chaso - Yeah, I've been thinking of the similarities between the GP-10 and the Roland FP and Korg SP-300 - but AFAIK I don't think that Ketron has had any contacts with Korg or Roland..
- but you can check their website at:
http://www.ketron.it
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 06/29/04 11:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by konaboy:
I think it's wonderful to have such knowledgeable and humble representatives from GEM and YAMAHA on these boards. Thanks very much guys.
You are very welcome!

Quote:
I feel that the motors are unnecessary and worry that they may cause trouble after many years of use, plus it all adds to the complexity, cost and weight.
The cool thing about the motorized faders is when you want to make a volume change to a sound during performance, when you grab the fader, it is already at the preset stored volume position. To further explain, without motorized faders, if a volume was programmed at a level of say 50, but the slider was in the full up position, as soon as you touched the fader to alter the volume, the sound would immediately jump to the full volume. Not a good thing.

Motorized faders have been used in digital recording consoles and live sound reinforcement mixers for quite a while and they have not been problematic. To my knowledge, the faders on the Promega 3 have been just as reliable.

Quote:
How about a new version, same sounds but repackaged into a smaller lighter body, with conventional buttons and knobs?
Promega 2 is what I use and love it. Check it out at http://www.generalmusic.us/pro/PROMEGA2.htm

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: p120dUdE

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/01/04 12:24 AM

BTW, the Sympathetic String Resonance on my p120 is created by "StringHarmonics", a program that sends a signal to the p120 sound engine, allowing the p120 to create all of the sympathetic overtones of an acoustic piano.

Regards,
p120dUdE
Posted by: Analogaddict

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/01/04 07:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by p120dUdE:
BTW, the Sympathetic String Resonance on my p120 is created by "StringHarmonics", a program that sends a signal to the p120 sound engine, allowing the p120 to create all of the sympathetic overtones of an acoustic piano.

Regards,
p120dUdE
"All of the sympathetic overtones", does that include the ones that occur from string vibration interaction? In that case, i suppose you have a set of overtones for each dynamic level and voicing, I suppose that´s a couple of hundred thousand possibilities...

Maybe you didn´t have too much pasta as a kid, maybe somebody dropped you on your HEAD! To make such uninformed comments is really taking things to a new level, not liking italian products. Outright prejudice, that is. Why is that, do you find them "greasy"? I suppose you shy away from Ferrarris, Lamborghinis, Ducatis, Pasta, pesto, pizza, pellgrino, the Sopranos, the Godfather pt1-3 and ice cream (didn´t an Italian guy invent ice cream?) too. This attitude really sucks.

On the good side, this thread makes me want to try out the Promega 2, I´ve never played a real Faizoli, but I tend to like bright pianos if they also have a lot of body.

Like Konaboy stated, it´s great to see company reps on forums like this, it´s an effective way of sharing ideas in both directions. Here´s one back to you;

Instead of moving faders, how about endless rotary knobs with position leds, like those on the Nord Lead 3 and Modular G2? They take much less space than a fader, and I suppose they are lighter, too. In addition to that, you can fit more knobs than faders on any surface. I´m sure we musicians are used to twisting knobs!

Oh, and make that an order for 76 weighted keys, a joystick, two wheels above it, a ribbon controller, eight sliders, 20 knobs, eight zones, fully writeable velocity curves, 1028 user patches, universal voltage (90-250v), three midi out, three through, three midi in with merge, four assignable switch jacks and four assignable foot controller jacks, please! And don´t put the controllers too high on the board, we´re going to want to stack another board on top of it!

/J nas
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/01/04 12:13 PM

Originally posted by Analogaddict:
Quote:
Instead of moving faders, how about endless rotary knobs with position leds, like those on the Nord Lead 3 and Modular G2? They take much less space than a fader, and I suppose they are lighter, too. In addition to that, you can fit more knobs than faders on any surface. I´m sure we musicians are used to twisting knobs!
We did use endless rotary knobs/LED's for sound selection within each sound section. I am not sure how that would work for volume though. The nice thing about the faders is you get a very good representation visually of the volume balance across all sections. You wouldn't get that same feedback from LED's arranged in circles. Just a thought.

Quote:
Oh, and make that an order for 76 weighted keys, a joystick, two wheels above it, a ribbon controller, eight sliders, 20 knobs, eight zones, fully writeable velocity curves, 1028 user patches, universal voltage (90-250v), three midi out, three through, three midi in with merge, four assignable switch jacks and four assignable foot controller jacks, please! And don´t put the controllers too high on the board, we´re going to want to stack another board on top of it!
I'll take one! \:\)

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/01/04 01:05 PM

Man you guys are way over my head. Thank God you can just pull this keyboard out of the box and play.

Dave you must know Phil Huston of Generalmusic. He's helped me wade through a ton of techno garble and managed to make it fun, god bless him. He's also given me a file of the settings he wrote for Wakeman and the boys, (no kidding, it's what they use) and I don't think I'm that special that they can't be shared with anybody here who owns a Promega3. So if anybody's interested, send me a PM with your email and i'll pass on the .MID file.

Cheers!
Sue
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/01/04 01:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by wantpromega3:
Man you guys are way over my head. Thank God you can just pull this keyboard out of the box and play.

Dave you must know Phil Huston of Generalmusic. He's helped me wade through a ton of techno garble and managed to make it fun, god bless him. He's also given me a file of the settings he wrote for Wakeman and the boys, (no kidding, it's what they use) and I don't think I'm that special that they can't be shared with anybody here who owns a Promega3. So if anybody's interested, send me a PM with your email and i'll pass on the .MID file.

Cheers!
Sue
Hi Sue,

I worked with Phil while we were both at Ensoniq and I am glad that we are both together again at Generalmusic USA. He is one of a kind.

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/01/04 06:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Immordino:
I'm wondering if anyone knows how the 04_jazz.mp3 and 06_rhod1.mp3 sample on the generalmusic.us site was made? Mostly how the drum sounds were added (cymbol, rim knocks, etc.).

I assume these sounds were made on the Promega, although I suppose they could have been made otherwise, but that seems like it would be cheating.

Also, were these samples made in one session, as in two hands once through?
Hello,

I just got word from the fellow who actually played the demo files for the Promega 3 that the extra sounds that you are referring to are in the last octave of the acoustic bass sound in sound section 4. "I assume he means the top octave".

Here is a copy of the e-mail I received regarding these sounds;

Hi David,
Sorry for the delay.
The sounds you mentioned are not exactly drums sounds but acoustic bass noises. I've used them as drums in the steely dan song. You can find them on the last octave of the acoustic bass sound in section 4.
Ciao
E.

I don't have access to a Promega at the moment because I am on the road. Once I am back at my office, I will try to find these sounds.

If you or anyone else has a chance to check this out, please let me know how it goes.

Best Regards,

Dave McMahan
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/01/04 09:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DaveMcM:
Quote:
Originally posted by Immordino:
I'm wondering if anyone knows how the 04_jazz.mp3 and 06_rhod1.mp3 sample on the generalmusic.us site was made? Mostly how the drum sounds were added (cymbol, rim knocks, etc.).

I assume these sounds were made on the Promega, although I suppose they could have been made otherwise, but that seems like it would be cheating.

Also, were these samples made in one session, as in two hands once through?
Hello,

I just got word from the fellow who actually played the demo files for the Promega 3 that the extra sounds that you are referring to are in the last octave of the acoustic bass sound in sound section 4. "I assume he means the top octave".

Here is a copy of the e-mail I received regarding these sounds;

Hi David,
Sorry for the delay.
The sounds you mentioned are not exactly drums sounds but acoustic bass noises. I've used them as drums in the steely dan song. You can find them on the last octave of the acoustic bass sound in section 4.
Ciao
E.

I don't have access to a Promega at the moment because I am on the road. Once I am back at my office, I will try to find these sounds.

If you or anyone else has a chance to check this out, please let me know how it goes.

Best Regards,

Dave McMahan
That's cool! Ok, I'm not a drummer so I will just tell you what I hear:
C7 toms? depends how you play it...
C#7 closed hat - uhh whatever you call it
D7 thats a squeaky balloon kind of thing, something Spike Jones would carry
D# that might be called a ride cymbal. it's good whatever it is
E7 another SJ special, lower this time
F7 a knock. damn I wish I could be more specific
G7 thump?
A8 clack!
B8 any of the above with a special added zing.

Well I hope that helps you out. Sure made my day!
Thanks Dave,
Sue
Posted by: marino

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/01/04 10:11 PM

OK, so yesterday I've played the Promega 3 onstage for the first time, and as promosed, here are my impressions.
First, a warning; my experience has been very limited, for two reasons:
1) It was in the messy enviroment of a music festival; the sound man had equalized the stage for a 'rock' sound, so I got too much emphasis on highs and lows on my monitor;
2) I only used the piano sounds and a bit of EP.

Anyway...

I found that the keyboard is very good, maybe just a tad light for diehard pianists, but I could control speed and dynamics with precision, and play long, fast runs without getting tired. A very comfortable keyboard to play - I found myself very relaxed, even daring to make little technical 'jokes', which I wouldn't have tried in more tense conditions. I have a Fatar 2001 and I like it, but this is way better.

The dynamic range of the piano sounds (I used Grand 1 and Grand 2, IIRC) is really good, except in the bass register, where I found the dynamics even 'too' broad... I'll try to explain: \:\) On the lower register, let's say the last octave and half, I found that you could play 'pp' with good effect, but starting from there, you reach the 'ff' way to soon. The middle dynamics are a bit compressed in a too narrow range of velocities. To be sure, this effect was exaggerated by the heavy emphasis on the bass coming from the external EQ. BTW, I hope there are adjustable velocity curves.

Other than this problem, I found the instrument very playable overall. The layout is fantastic - it's so intuitive, I made changes on the fly, layering sounds in various doses (EP and a slight pad over the piano sound), without really knowing the instrument. After that; I even taught a couple of acoustic pianist who weren't familiar with electronics at all, how to use it! They were scheduled to play it right after me, and they were a bit intimidated by the panel... but they got a grasp of it in no time.

The piano sound itself - I could describe it as very dynamic, but very consistent at the same time. Probably a bit less bright than most current digital pianos - but it has a 'natural' quality, and as I said, it's very controllable if you're used to the dynamics of a real grand.

I'll stop here because this particular experience has been rather limited. But I believe it would be possible for me, in the next few days, to spend a couple of hours with the Promega in a controlled enviroment. If you are interested in more details and more in-depth impressions, let me know and I'll try to manage it.

Carlo
Posted by: guestuser@guestuser.com

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/01/04 11:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by marino:
If you are interested in more details and more in-depth impressions, let me know and I'll try to manage it.

Carlo
I'd like to hear your impressions after you've spent a bit more time with it, and in a few different environments.
Posted by: Grave BryceAdministrator

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/01/04 11:40 PM

Hey, Dave McM (and/or other Generalmusic guys) -

Can you please tell me the difference between the GEM products and the Generalmusic products?

dB
Posted by: Immo

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/02/04 12:15 AM

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe GEM is a sort of abbreviation of Generalmusic.
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/02/04 01:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Dave Bryce:
Hey, Dave McM (and/or other Generalmusic guys) -

Can you please tell me the difference between the GEM products and the Generalmusic products?

dB
Hi Dave,

Immordino is correct. GEM and Generalmusic are one in the same.

Best Regards,

Dave McMahan
Posted by: Grave BryceAdministrator

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/02/04 03:05 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DaveMcM:
GEM and Generalmusic are one in the same.
I thought as much...so, what determines which products are called GEM and which are called Generalmusic?

As you may have read earlier in the thread, I am of the opinion that the name Generalmusic may hinder the company in the US, as it may bring to mind an average product. I firmly believe that you guys make excellent instruments (I've been a fan ever since I played my first S2), and I've frequently wondered if the Generalmusic name and possible subsequent association affects the success of your gear in the US (I'm not sure it would have as big an effect in Europe).

Of course, I could be completely offbase, but I believe that names (or nameware, if you prefer ;\) ) are ridiculously important. I can't help but wonder what the result of dropping the Generalmusic moniker in favor of GEM would be...

BTW - I deeply appreciate you guys taking the time to post here - I believe the presence of manufacturers adds serious value to these forums as well as being an excellent conduit for said manufacturers to collect marketing info. Consequently, I do everything in my power to support and encourage the presence of as many industry folk as possible.

Thanks for taking the time and energy to be so helpful to the members of this forum.

Oh, yeah - if my friend Chris Anthony (whom I firmly believe is one of the best clinicians in the business) is still around, please do give him my regards!

dB
Posted by: Immo

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/02/04 01:13 PM

I was wondering why the Promega3 doesn't have a Flute-O-Tron. Perhaps it was because I think Wakeman had some input, and I don't think that's a sound he uses a ton. It has choir and string mellotron sounds, but isn't the mellotron flute used on such songs as Strawberry Fields and Stairway? I mean I'll be honest, I don't know what other times I would think about using those sounds, but does the Promega have a flute sound?

By the way, is there any way to get any samples of any other Promega sounds? Even though I know you get it first and foremost for the piano sound, I'm wondering what the organ samples sound like which have gotten mixed reviews.
Posted by: c4

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/02/04 02:44 PM

the jazz organ is quite good..so is the church organ. The rock organ is not so hot imo...
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/02/04 11:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Immordino:
I was wondering why the Promega3 doesn't have a Flute-O-Tron. Perhaps it was because I think Wakeman had some input, and I don't think that's a sound he uses a ton. It has choir and string mellotron sounds, but isn't the mellotron flute used on such songs as Strawberry Fields and Stairway? I mean I'll be honest, I don't know what other times I would think about using those sounds, but does the Promega have a flute sound?

By the way, is there any way to get any samples of any other Promega sounds? Even though I know you get it first and foremost for the piano sound, I'm wondering what the organ samples sound like which have gotten mixed reviews.
Hi,

There is a Promega 3 demo CD. Please contact info@generalmusic.us about getting one of these.

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/02/04 11:47 PM

Originally posted by Dave Bryce:
Quote:
I thought as much...so, what determines which products are called GEM and which are called Generalmusic?

As you may have read earlier in the thread, I am of the opinion that the name Generalmusic may hinder the company in the US, as it may bring to mind an average product. I firmly believe that you guys make excellent instruments (I've been a fan ever since I played my first S2), and I've frequently wondered if the Generalmusic name and possible subsequent association affects the success of your gear in the US (I'm not sure it would have as big an effect in Europe).
There is no distinction between the two names that I am aware of. I agree that GEM is probably better.

Quote:
BTW - I deeply appreciate you guys taking the time to post here - I believe the presence of manufacturers adds serious value to these forums as well as being an excellent conduit for said manufacturers to collect marketing info. Consequently, I do everything in my power to support and encourage the presence of as many industry folk as possible.

Thanks for taking the time and energy to be so helpful to the members of this forum.
I appreciate the appreciation. "sorry, I have been up for a very long time today"
Seriously, I do appreciate you saying that. I am happy to help whoever I can, not just with GEM products, but anything that I am familiar with. Analog, DX, sampling, etc. BTW, I believe we have met many moons ago back in the DX days.

Quote:
Oh, yeah - if my friend Chris Anthony (whom I firmly believe is one of the best clinicians in the business) is still around, please do give him my regards!
Next time I speak with Chris I will tell him you said hello. What a great guy and an even better player.

Best Regards,

Dave McMahan
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/03/04 03:20 AM

Quote:

Chris Anthony (whom I firmly believe is one of the best clinicians in the business)
I can believe that. His demo of the Genesys Pro convinced me that GEM was the way to go. Well it sure wasn't his singing.

By the way, it can't be all in the name, but also how you write that name. Maybe it's just me, but I see that wicked M in GEM and it's like, don't mess with me
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/03/04 02:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Immordino:
[QUOTE]
does the promega have a flute sound?

hmmm..possibly..
These are the factory presets. No flutes listed as such, but I'd bet you could come up with something real similar with a little persistence. I'm working on creating a decent harp sound, myself.

A: Pianos 1
Concert 9' Grand
Fazioli 10' Grand
Pro 2 Real Piano
Ballad Piano
Power Pop
Rock 70's
Lounge Upright
Electric 70's

B: Pianos 2
New Age Spirit
Real Honky Tonk
Techno Madness
Dance Hall Daze
The Funkster
Compressed 10'
Compressed 9'
The Koln Koncert

C: Vintage 1
Reference Rhodex
Steely Rhodex
Excited Rhodex
SuperThin Rhodex
PoP Wurlixer
Rock Wurlixer
Hybrid Sweetness
Hybrid Hardness

D: Vintage 2
FMDX1-Reference
FMDX2-Fusion Gig
Clavinet Model-1
Clavinet Model-2
Classic Harpsi
Modern Jazz Vibes
Latin Jazz Woods
Multiplex Rhodex

E: Combi 1
Live Soundtrack
Fazioli Extreme
Gospel Keyboards
Jazz Trio 50's
Pop Super Stack
Funky Stuff
Student Recital
Jazz-Rock 80's

F: Combi 2
Vapour Trails...
Tack Hammer (still can't believe I did that to my mother's piano..)
Expanded Dynamic
Disco Patch 70's
Jaco's Nostalgia
Daytime Soap
Radio Days...
Early Movies

G: Combi 3
MaxiFunk Split
Clavinet-vs-Bass
Jimmy 'B'good...
Jimmy 'B'brass..
Carousel Organ
The 70's BigBand
Vibes 'Ahead'
Bag's Jazz 4tet

H: Classical
Largo Cantabile
Forte Marcato
Four Seasons
Wendy's Baroque
Opera Fanfare
Cathedral Voices
Cathedral Pipes
Huge Cathedral

Hope that's useful!

Sue
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/03/04 11:03 PM

Originally posted by wantpromega3:
Quote:
Maybe it's just me, but I see that wicked M in GEM and it's like, don't mess with me
Hi,

Are you referring to the red M logo? Just curious.

Thanks,

Dave
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/04/04 02:20 AM

Hi Dave - I don't think I've seen that one. Something new?
Posted by: Rasmus-DK

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/04/04 05:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Dave Bryce:
Quote:
Originally posted by DaveMcM:
GEM and Generalmusic are one in the same.
I thought as much...so, what determines which products are called GEM and which are called Generalmusic?

As you may have read earlier in the thread, I am of the opinion that the name Generalmusic may hinder the company in the US, as it may bring to mind an average product. I firmly believe that you guys make excellent instruments (I've been a fan ever since I played my first S2), and I've frequently wondered if the Generalmusic name and possible subsequent association affects the success of your gear in the US (I'm not sure it would have as big an effect in Europe).

Of course, I could be completely offbase, but I believe that names (or nameware, if you prefer ;\) ) are ridiculously important. I can't help but wonder what the result of dropping the Generalmusic moniker in favor of GEM would be...

BTW - I deeply appreciate you guys taking the time to post here - I believe the presence of manufacturers adds serious value to these forums as well as being an excellent conduit for said manufacturers to collect marketing info. Consequently, I do everything in my power to support and encourage the presence of as many industry folk as possible.

Thanks for taking the time and energy to be so helpful to the members of this forum.

Oh, yeah - if my friend Chris Anthony (whom I firmly believe is one of the best clinicians in the business) is still around, please do give him my regards!

dB
AFAIK (I'm not sure of all details - I have learnt some of it from the Omnibus Edition and other details from http://www.synrise.de - one of the best synth sites on the web - unfortunately 80% of it has never been translated to English..) GEM (which to my knowledge is the descendant of the old Galanti accordeon factory..Galanti Electro Musicali - GEM) decided to change their company name to GeneralMusic - after buying LEM and Elka around 1988 - around 1990 - and at some point they also found it sensible to sell their keyboards under the GeneralMusic moniker - consequently, the GEM WS1 and WS2 (the first GEM keyboards with a more "pro" feature list) were renamed GeneralMusic WS1/WS2 around 1992/93 (these particular models were sold under the Bachmann name in the US, though..) and the S2 changed its name to GeneralMusic when the Turbo kit and the Rack version, the S2R came out in 1993/94
- this didn't last too long though, as they probably realized the same as you, Dave - so they changed the name back to GEM - or more precisely, GEM by GeneralMusic (you can also find this on LEM products - "LEM by GeneralMusic") around 1997 - Synrise gathers that most SK76s and SK88s were issued with the GEM by GeneralMusic badge even though the earliest promotion had GeneralMusic printed
- so, they actually reintroduced using the GEM moniker some years ago (the Equinox line also had the "GEM by GeneralMusic" badge..) - but I really do understand your being confused...
It confuses me, too, at times..
Posted by: Dave Horne

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/04/04 06:40 PM

This weekend I was in a _really big_ piano store (http://www.poppeliers.nl/) basically to try out the RD700.

There was a factory rep for GEM and he demoed the Promega for me. I only played it for a few minutes so I won't voice my opinion on the action or sounds. It looked like a keyboard from the 1970's ... very retro. I asked about the action and was told it was made by Fatar.

Some of the things mentioned here were repeated by this rep ... polyphony in the 300+ range, one layer (I don't remember if that referred to all sounds or just the one we were talking about). There was a model there that had all the features of the one with the motorized controls but was more modern in appearance - silver in color.

There was also a GEM upright that kicked ass with a built in 'Band in the Box' (their version of it).

All in all, quite interesting.
Posted by: marino

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/04/04 07:43 PM

Rasmus, I believe your infos are very accurate. In the late '80s, GEM also started a line of acoustic pianos under the name Bachmann - they were pretty good.

It's kind of sad to notice that Generalmusic and Fatar are the only noteworthy manufacturers of electronic keyboards which remain active in Italy. Siel, Crumar, Elka, have produced cheesy instruments in the past, but also a few great, brilliant instruments, like the Synthex, the MK88, the Spirit... probably, they were too old-fashioned in structure, to survive in today's industry.
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/04/04 07:52 PM

...skip on by if you've already read this article...

On their most recent tour of Australia legendary progrock outfit Yes showed that they had lost none of their shine off their 35-year odd story. And with the classic original line-up circa 1972 back in force – cosmic pixie vocalist Jon Anderson, master guitarist Steve Howe, powerful drummer Alan White, wizard keyboardist Rick Wakeman and bassist extraordinaire Chris Squire, it was an event that was a very long time coming, in fact, 30 years long. You see it was 30 years since they last toured here.

Part of Rick Wakeman's superb and brilliant performance and stage sound is due largely from his highly enthused and passionate use of the Generalmusic Promega3 rig. In fact Wakeman holds the rig in such high regard that he currently owns three of them!
''Yes, I've got three of them actually!'' reveals Wakeman passionately. ''I've got one that I keep in England for the simple reason that it's such a clever machine. It's really four things in one plus a lot of other things as well. When I go and do charity things or whatever, people say 'can you bring a keyboard along and play'? And it's always been a problem so what do you do? Do you take a digital piano and play a piano piece or do they want something more? And nonbody has ever come up with something that you can really sort of say is a multi-purpose and multi-task instrument. And the Promega is fantastic for that because it can do anything I want and I can do wonderful mix and matches, so I use it a lot''.
Wakeman first came across the instrument when he was asked to do an appearance in America. At the time it happened to be without a keyboard in hand, so decided to ask a friend a favour. ''I was in America and I was asked to do a small appearance'' he explains. ''And to also play so I thought 'OK I'll borrow a keyboard from somebody'.
So I phoned up the American representative of Generalmusic and asked him if he could loan me one and he did.
Anyway afterwards he said 'can you send it back to us?'. I said 'No, send me a bill. I like it'.
'You've already got two! Why would you want three for? he asked.
I said because my stuff is kept in America in storage and I really can do with one in England.
So he said 'OK' and they shipped this one off to England''.
Wakeman believes the Promega3 is miles ahead of anything that pervades the keyboard playing industry and believes that it is the holy grail of all keyboard sounds. ''It's a clever, clever machine in many ways'' he muses. ''Every keyboard player is always on the look out for something that can do the job that nothing else can do. The Italians for many years have had a bit of raw deal, because certainly back in the 60's and 70's there were lots of Italian keyboard companies who used to appear one year and then disappear the next. You'd go to trade fair and there'd be a keyboard manufacturer invariably with a poor quality instrument and next time you would go back there and they'd be gone! So they got a bit of a bad name. But all through that, the one company that was good in all of that was Generalmusic. They were the only ones that always hung in there. I think it was tough for them because all around them were a lot of makers producing some good stuff. When they brought out the Pro2 piano I got hold of one back in England because someone had said to me if I wanted a great stage piano sound to get one of them''.
Wakeman can't help extol enough the virtues of the Promega3. From the moment he first laid his hands on one, he was forever hooked; big time. ''I played with it and played with it'' he explains. ''And then I started to use it during recordings and was really interesting. I originally took the Promega out on the road with me to road test it before it came out''.
''And like any instrument I have road tested in the past, there were a few teething problems. But that was mainly due because when people make these instruments, they don't make them to swing them around in flight cases or to be knocked around in aeroplanes so there were a few little lessons to be learnt. The thing I find so amazing about this instrument, is that it is different to anything else I've got. And that is something that everybody is looking for; it's good in the studio, it's good on the road but I can also see where it can go to too which is another interesting thing too. It's bit like when somebody makes a great car and you think 'well they're going to keep this model for five years. Gosh I can see what this is going to be like in five years, it's great now but it's going to be unbelieveable in five years! And I do think very much, that the Promega3 is just like that. I can see the areas where it can go. They've already gone futher than a lot of other people''
Posted by: guestuser@guestuser.com

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/04/04 08:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by wantpromega3:
...skip on by if you've already read this article...
It sounds like marketing-speak.

[CYNICISM]Wakeman is probably being paid to endorse GEM products. Which of course leads one to wonder whether he actually uses them at all - many endorsees don't use the products they endorse.[/CYNICISM]
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/04/04 08:51 PM

OMG Richard, maybe I wrote it myself. Did you think of that?

I'm beginning to lose patience with you man.
Posted by: guestuser@guestuser.com

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/04/04 08:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by wantpromega3:
OMG Richard, maybe I wrote it myself. Did you think of that?

I'm beginning to lose patience with you man.
Did you write it?
Posted by: Immo

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/04/04 10:33 PM

Well Rick does indeed use one. It's in this picture.



Can't you see it? Actually I think its the one on top just to the right of center, and just to the left of the minimoog. That one may not be it but the accompanying article says it's somewhere in that rig. http://www.musicplayer.com/lounge/setups/rick.htm

Believe it or not I got to talk to Wakeman and Emerson in the same evening when they were both doing Moogfest promotional stuff in NYC the night before Moogfest at the BB King. They independently at two different venues recommended the Promega. I actually had a napkin on which Rick wrote the Promega 3 and the Korg Triton Pro as his recommendations, but I threw it away, because I'm pretty sure the napkin was used (he was eating at the album signing).

If you don't believe that I could show you the autographs I got of both of them on my ELP and Six Wives piano books, but then again I suppose showing that as proof and taking it to the logical extreme would give me license to say that they said anything I want.

By the way I'm half Italian, so I'm partial toward Italian stuff. But I don't like green eggs and ham. I could not, would not, in a...
Posted by: p120dUdE

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/04/04 10:42 PM

Rick does use a Promega 3. I saw YES in concert a month and a half ago.

Regards,
p120dUdE
Posted by: guestuser@guestuser.com

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/05/04 12:36 AM

Ok, maybe he really does use one. But that article still sounds like an advertisement out of a GEM brochure to me.
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/05/04 12:41 AM

Hello,

Just for the record, GEM does not pay anyone to endorse its products. Those that use the Promega 3 and other GEM instruments do so because they truly like them.

Best Regards,

Dave McMahan
Posted by: hermanjoe

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/09/04 06:42 PM

In an effort to revive this thread and keep it alive forever...
Anyway a few questions for GEM users.
Has anyone used the GEM promega 3 as a MIDI controller?
How easy is it to use sounds form a module and intergrate them with sounds of the Promega 3?
How easy is it to toggle through sounds and switch them from an external sound source or computer?
From reading the manual it seems all that should be pretty easy.
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/09/04 08:48 PM

Sorry, no help here...no midi experience whatsoever. Would like to listen and learn, though.
Posted by: Immo

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/10/04 03:47 PM

I'm trying to understand what this description means:

"Up to 128 Mb of stereo samples can be stored to PRO MEGA3 memory to provide a database of PCM Sounds."

I think I understand correctly that 64Mb are taken up by the 60? built in sounds. Can you acutually upload 64Mb worth of other sounds to the Promega 3, or is this referring to being able to store performances (which I understand to be combinations on on board sounds and effects)?
Posted by: Immo

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/10/04 03:53 PM

Oh I have some questions about the accessories too. I noticed that a few of the accessories shown on generalmusic.com are not all available on the generalmusic.us site for ordering. Most notably is the three pedal unit. Is there anywhere to get this for someone who is not anywhere near a dealer?

Also, what's the difference between the regular and professional volume pedal? It sounds like the professional is just more heavy duty. Is there a reason someone would likely want to upgrade to this? Is the regular pedal likely to break if used for gigging, or just if handled carelessly (which may be very likely when gigging, as I haven't done any gigging myself).

Last thing, is the multimedia kit a generic kit that could be used for any keyboard, or is this a promega, or gem specific package (like perhaps the drivers that are necessary).
Posted by: hermanjoe

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/10/04 05:28 PM

I am looking into the manual as to the 128MB of PCM sounds. It would be really cool if the user could upload sounds to the board and interface it with the technology.
Also, does anyone have a case for the promega 3? I would like to know where to get one. Or do I have to custom order$$$
Posted by: Immo

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/10/04 07:53 PM

I've scoured the internet, and haven't found an ATA case that fits the Promega 3. The generalmusic.com website has a soft case. I got a quote on an ATA custom case from a place in NY, for their lowest end with a kit to add a handle and wheels I seem to recall ran about 120. If you want the info I can give it to you, but I imagine any custom case place will have similar prices (I guess that's quite an assumption).
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/10/04 10:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by hermanjoe:
In an effort to revive this thread and keep it alive forever...
Anyway a few questions for GEM users.
Has anyone used the GEM promega 3 as a MIDI controller?
How easy is it to use sounds form a module and intergrate them with sounds of the Promega 3?
How easy is it to toggle through sounds and switch them from an external sound source or computer?
From reading the manual it seems all that should be pretty easy.
Hi,

Please keep the thread alive as long as you can! \:\)

The MIDI controller functions are quite easy to master. (pun intended) By using the Multiple MIDI mode, each sound section can be assigned to play internally, MIDI only or both. Each section can transmit program/bank change messages. The pedals and wheels can be independently assigned for each section as well.

After you have gone through the manual, if you have any particular questions regarding the MIDI functions, please feel free to e-mail me at support@generalmusic.us.

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/10/04 10:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Immordino:
I'm trying to understand what this description means:

"Up to 128 Mb of stereo samples can be stored to PRO MEGA3 memory to provide a database of PCM Sounds."

I think I understand correctly that 64Mb are taken up by the 60? built in sounds. Can you acutually upload 64Mb worth of other sounds to the Promega 3, or is this referring to being able to store performances (which I understand to be combinations on on board sounds and effects)?
Hi,

Let me be the first to say "isn't it confusing".

Here is the explanation:

The Promega 3 has up to 128MB of sample memory. This is not user sample RAM so it is not possible to load additional samples into the instrument. Sorry.

What is extremely important to understand is that the sample data stored in that memory is a very small part of what makes the Promega what it is as far as sounds go.

Some of the sounds, i.e. Rhodes, Clavinet, Wurlitzer, do not use samples at all and are created purely through computer modeling technology. The acoustic pianos do use samples as a basis for sound, but then the physical modeling takes over to create the dynamic characteristics, sympathetic vibrations, and other aspects of a real acoustic piano.

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/10/04 11:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Immordino:
Oh I have some questions about the accessories too. I noticed that a few of the accessories shown on generalmusic.com are not all available on the generalmusic.us site for ordering. Most notably is the three pedal unit. Is there anywhere to get this for someone who is not anywhere near a dealer?

Also, what's the difference between the regular and professional volume pedal? It sounds like the professional is just more heavy duty. Is there a reason someone would likely want to upgrade to this? Is the regular pedal likely to break if used for gigging, or just if handled carelessly (which may be very likely when gigging, as I haven't done any gigging myself).

Last thing, is the multimedia kit a generic kit that could be used for any keyboard, or is this a promega, or gem specific package (like perhaps the drivers that are necessary).
Hi,

The 3 pedal unit is available in the US. If you do not have a dealer close by, drop me an e-mail at support@generalmusic.us and I will work out getting one to you.

You are correct that the Pro version of the volume pedal is much stronger than the basic pedal. Do yourself a favor and go for the better pedal.

The Multimedia kit is a 9pin to PS2 serial adapter cable and comes with a driver to allow a PC serial port to access the Promega. My advice is to just use MIDI and don't worry about the serial port. Much less hassle since you don't have to load yet another driver into your PC that could potentially cause conflicts, etc.

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/10/04 11:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by hermanjoe:
Also, does anyone have a case for the promega 3? I would like to know where to get one. Or do I have to custom order$$$
Hello,

We do have a custom ATA case available for the Promega 3. It is a molded case with wheels on one end. If you do not have a dealer close by, send me an e-mail and I will let you know how to get a Promega 3 case from Generalmusic.

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/10/04 11:08 PM

Whew!
Posted by: hermanjoe

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/11/04 12:36 AM

Very cool Dave! I will contact my GEM dealer for a case.
Its cool the promega is a good midi controller. It seems that featyre is lacking in most other stage pianos that I have researched.
Posted by: iMember

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/11/04 01:11 AM

Well, I've been using my Promega 3 as a controller for a yamaha sampler and a xv-5050 for over a year now, and must say it has some shortcomings as a master keyboard. I feel this is 'by design' to make the keyboard extremely easy to use (which it is).

I really wish you could split the keyboard into 4 zones, and I find the use of a "to left" a tad confusing when I mix and match complex setups (as I have grown in understanding my xv it's getting better though).

Also, as I mentioned before, I never managed to change the programs or banks on the xv, and it refuses to acknowledge my ev-5 volume pedal.

I also wish there was a local off switch for each section, not just global, but to be honest I haven't used the multiple midi mode. Hm, I thought I had read the entire manual, but I guess I must have missed some of it.
Posted by: Byrdman

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/11/04 03:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by iMember:
it refuses to acknowledge my ev-5 volume pedal.

Have you tried a Yamaha expression pedal - they are wired differently to the Roland ones. There's only 6 ways you can wire an expression pedal but only two really make sense so there's a fare chance this will work.

BTW, the Yamaha pedal is much nicer than the Toland one. You can get an adapter but I have not tried this yet.
Posted by: c4

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/11/04 08:30 PM

The standard gator 88 key case fits the promega 3.
I have been using one while I wait on my custom ata case.
Posted by: iMember

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/11/04 08:59 PM

I've only tried my ev-5, and I guess other pedals work just fine. I'm just a little annoyed that it doesn't support it (everyone I know uses ev-5). I didn't thought such things were hard to implement.

I love my Promega though, I just feel it has an emphasis on Pianos, touch and ease of use. There's nothing wrong with that, but if I needed extensive master functions I'll probably look elsewhere, maybe Kurzweill.
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/11/04 11:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by c4:
The standard gator 88 key case fits the promega 3.
I have been using one while I wait on my custom ata case.
Seriously, aren't you worried about being able to lift it? I used to have to haul a little M1 around in one of those and found it unnecessarily exhausting. I just want protection from rain and snow. Do most of you guys out there use ATA cases?

Just so you know, the case described on the generalmusic.com website is really well padded. Probably about an inch and a half foam top and bottom. And the logo is machine-embroidered, not printed! I appreciate detail like that. It's probably standard, but it also has heavy tracks on the bottom for dragging over obstacles (like drummers and brass players). And the wheels are showing no sense of wear yet after (1) gig. :rolleyes: More than I can say for the last suitcase I bought.
Posted by: Immo

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/12/04 12:37 AM

Hey I resemble that remark! I've probably taken more years of trumpet lessons than I have the piano!

I find it strange that my fellow trumpet players tell me to play louder though. Perhaps it's that I play with control?
Posted by: hermanjoe

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/12/04 02:19 AM

Quote:
Seriously, aren't you worried about being able to lift it? I used to have to haul a little M1 around in one of those and found it unnecessarily exhausting. I just want protection from rain and snow. Do most of you guys out there use ATA cases?
I feel the same about having to lift stuff, but I feel its worth it. The ata style case ares the best protection, espeacially if other people are moving your stuff. It's nice to have a lightweight case for local transports or rehearsals. Bottom line, shell out big bucks for keys, and I'll do everything I can to keep em' clean and in top working order!
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/12/04 10:20 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Immordino:
Hey I resemble that remark!
:D \:D

BTW, been looking for somebody to play Kent Kennan's Sonata for trumpet for about 10 years now (hint hint)

Speaking of keeping the keyboard clean, I picked up some black lycra to make a dust cover, with a toggled elastic cord to pull tight under the corners. Got the idea from Gator but didn't want to spend that much.

On re-reading Dave McM's post, I see it's a molded case he's talking about. I'd like to see a pic of that. I've only seen fiberglass cases for stringed instruments.
Posted by: c4

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/12/04 01:48 PM

Its not hard to lift and it offers much more protection than some soft case. ATA with wheels is the way to go for sure. The gator is pretty weak on the quality side imo but it wil do until the real case comes in.
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/12/04 02:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by c4:
Its not hard to lift and it offers much more protection than some soft case.
yeah but the soft case is embroidered
Posted by: Immo

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/12/04 02:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by wantpromega3:
\:D \:D

BTW, been looking for somebody to play Kent Kennan's Sonata for trumpet for about 10 years now (hint hint)


If you're even in the NYC area I'll see what I can muster, it's been a while since I've practiced that instrument.

On re-reading Dave McM's post, I see it's a molded case he's talking about. I'd like to see a pic of that. I've only seen fiberglass cases for stringed instruments.

You mean you can't embroider fiberglass???!!!
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/12/04 03:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Immordino:


If you're even in the NYC area I'll see what I can muster, it's been a while since I've practiced that instrument.

Good idea. Hey! I could ask c4 to carry my keyboard!!

just kidding c4.

...wait a minute..I never said I could PLAY that piece..
Posted by: Immo

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/12/04 04:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by wantpromega3:
...wait a minute..I never said I could PLAY that piece..
I never said I could either! ;\)
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/12/04 07:01 PM

hahha, well between the 2 of us we should be able come up with a page or 2 in time for that CD that's going around, don't you think? Somebody around here might agree to mix it for a nominal fee. Sounds like a huge hit to me . Trouble is, I can't send you the music. Last trumpet player I handed it to permanently misplaced it.
Posted by: Immo

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/12/04 11:00 PM

So among those that have a promega and use some non-GEM ATA case (custom or otherwise) or the GEM trolley case (non ATA), what has been your satisfaction, and how much did it cost?

I got a quote on the GEM ATA case, and while I think it's the ideal solution, I had to make a choice between it and the keyboard (aka I don't think I can afford it).
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/12/04 11:31 PM

Gem Trolley Case: CA$189.00 = US$143.00

Very-Satisfied customer. Would replace with same if lost or stolen. Would NOT, however, let anyone other than myself take responsibility for transport, in particular any Big Band Member or Sound Engineer..
Posted by: Immo

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/14/04 12:11 PM

Has anyone explored the gem club?
(www.gem-club.com)

It actually costs money, and you can really know what their complete offering is until you become a member, so I was wondering if anyone had any experience with it before I think about throwing any money at it.
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/14/04 09:33 PM

Not interested, personally.
Posted by: hermanjoe

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/25/04 12:56 PM

Dave McM,

I don't know if you mentioned this before, but how big is the piano sample in the Promega 3? I specifically mean St. Grand 1.
Also what types of rhodes are being modeled in Rhodes 1,2,3,4 respectivley. ie Mark I Stage 73 ect... Just curious.

Thanks,

Tom
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/26/04 01:24 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by hermanjoe:
Dave McM,

I don't know if you mentioned this before, but how big is the piano sample in the Promega 3? I specifically mean St. Grand 1.
Also what types of rhodes are being modeled in Rhodes 1,2,3,4 respectivley. ie Mark I Stage 73 ect... Just curious.

Thanks,

Tom
Hi Tom,

How are you doing?

I honestly don't know the size of the samples in the Promega. Not even sure if I can find out. The sample data is used as a starting point for the F.A.D.E. computer model in order to create the proper harmonics based on key velocity, damper position, etc. The decay of individual harmonics is controlled by F.A.D.E. as well, so the sample length isn't all that important either.

I was lucky enough to be in Italy while the Promega 3 was in its design stage, and got to play the actual Rhodes 73 that was modeled. It was absolutely incredible. The Rhodes and Promega were running through the same amplification, and it was impossible to tell the difference. And there is no BS in that statement. It was just amazing. I will try to find out what other Rhodes were used and let you know.

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: hermanjoe

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/26/04 01:48 AM

Dave,

Thanks again. I appreciate your help.

Tom
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/28/04 09:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by hermanjoe:
Dave,

Thanks again. I appreciate your help.

Tom
Hi Tom,

Here is what I found out regarding the rhodes models.
----------
1. Rhodes 1: is a Fender Rhodes 73 Mark1 (with suitcase).

2. Rhodes 2: is a Fender Rhodes 73 Mark2, with "nail polish" tuning that gives an higher response of hi-harmonics and a brighter attack to the sound.

All other rhodes sounds are created by the same p.m.'s with a totally different algorhithm tuning and the addition of different transient non-harmonic attack sounds.
----------

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: hermanjoe

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/28/04 02:19 PM

Thanks Dave,

That's great. I thought Rhodes One had that "Herbie" sound. 1 and 2 are my favorite. Thanks again. Take Care.

Tom
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/28/04 04:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by hermanjoe:
Thanks Dave,

That's great. I thought Rhodes One had that "Herbie" sound. 1 and 2 are my favorite. Thanks again. Take Care.

Tom
Hi Tom,

It is my pleasure. I am sorry that it took me while to get an answer for you. Have fun.

Dave
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/28/04 04:54 PM

Dave!

Those Jimmy 'b'Good, and Jimmy 'b'Brass settings, are they referring to Jimmy Smith?

Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/28/04 05:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by wantpromega3:
Dave!

Those Jimmy 'b'Good, and Jimmy 'b'Brass settings, are they referring to Jimmy Smith?

Is there any other! LOL

Dave
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/28/04 05:35 PM

\:D

ok, there's other names on the keyboard I don't know about either. I'll post them later.

Posted by: Byrdman

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/28/04 06:05 PM

Hey Dave. I am going to be in San Francisco next week. Any dealers there? I will be on foot (or BART) so it would have to be close in or on a line.
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/28/04 07:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Byrdman:
Hey Dave. I am going to be in San Francisco next week. Any dealers there? I will be on foot (or BART) so it would have to be close in or on a line.
Hi,

I will send your message to our sales manager. He also handles the west coast dealers so he should know.

BTW, since you live in Portland, there is a dealer down in Eugene which is not too far named Piano Liquidators. I know they stock all of the GEM products. The phone number is 541-343-0107 and the address is 473 West 7th Suite 3, Eugene, OR 97401.

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: hermanjoe

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/29/04 04:55 AM

Graded Action?

Is the Promega 3's weighted Hammer action graded at all? Or is it a balanced hammer action? Funny, I'm playing it and thinking about it, but sometimes I realize it's hard for me to tell. I bounce between my Promega 3 and an acoustic upright piano, but an upright is generally not too graded, at least the once I have isn't. It's an old Sohmer NY, spinet style upright. The damn thing sounds good an never goes out of tune. Its still holding A-440 and it was moved a few times to my apartment, turned on it's side ect... It just is remarkable to me. I have a Kawai grand that goes out of tune with every season change.
Posted by: hermanjoe

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/29/04 05:00 AM

Quote:
All other rhodes sounds are created by the same p.m.'s with a totally different algorhithm tuning and the addition of different transient non-harmonic attack sounds.
Dave,

What about the dx souding rhodes? It that some sort of FM synthesis or a model of it. Or perhaps just a sample. I would image it isn't possible to make a physical model of a DX rhodes because there are no hammers, tines ect..But vibes on the other hand are a different story. And those vibes sound very good.

Tom
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/29/04 04:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by hermanjoe:
Quote:
All other rhodes sounds are created by the same p.m.'s with a totally different algorhithm tuning and the addition of different transient non-harmonic attack sounds.
Dave,

What about the dx souding rhodes? It that some sort of FM synthesis or a model of it. Or perhaps just a sample. I would image it isn't possible to make a physical model of a DX rhodes because there are no hammers, tines ect..But vibes on the other hand are a different story. And those vibes sound very good.

Tom
Hi Tom,

I sold Sohmer pianos years ago. I thought they were great. It is great that it is still in good shape. Even though it seems to be staying in tune, it is still a good idea to have a qualified piano tech give a go over every once in a while. That way it will outlast both of us.

The Promega 3 action is not graded. Occasionally when talking to customers this comes up, at least those customers that have been pitched on other brands that use keys of varying weights. It is interesting to me that piano manufacturers or more specifically piano action manufacturers do their best to add weight to individual keys to even out the feel of the keyboard across its range. As far as I am concerned, it is better to have the same feel throughout the entire key range. This may be a bit silly, but it seems that having lighter keys as you go up the scale would tend to make your right hand a little lazy. This is just my thought on the matter and as I said I may all wet in that thinking. Anyway, the answer is no.

As for the DX EP sounds, I think they are just major tweaks of the modeled Rhodes. The first to Rhodes sounds are exact models of their perspective mechanical counterparts. The remaining EP sound models have been edited to create the additional attack characteristics, etc. to duplicate the DX'ish type sounds. There may be and probably is some sample data thrown in the mix as well on those sounds.

I hope that answers you questions sufficiently.

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: Immo

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/29/04 05:10 PM

Dave,

I noticed that the generalmusic.us site mentions nothing about graded keys, however the generalmusic.com site on the technical specifications page for Promega 3 says "88 keys with graded hammer action & aftertouch". Why do you think that is? I don't imagine they have a different make in Europe (as I think I got two power cords in my box, one for some other country's sockets I guess).
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/29/04 05:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Immordino:
Dave,

I noticed that the generalmusic.us site mentions nothing about graded keys, however the generalmusic.com site on the technical specifications page for Promega 3 says "88 keys with graded hammer action & aftertouch". Why do you think that is? I don't imagine they have a different make in Europe (as I think I got two power cords in my box, one for some other country's sockets I guess).
Hi,

Thanks for pointing that out. I know there was talk about using a graded action at some point, but as I stated in the above post, the action is not graded. I don't think there is a difference in keybed assemblies in Europe versus the US. I will definitely check into this.

Thanks,

Dave
Posted by: VanZea

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/29/04 05:45 PM

Hi Dave,

I read about 2 new models based on the Promega 3. Do the have the same sounds (and less voices, different casing)?

Grtz,
Jeroen
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/29/04 06:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by VanZea:
Hi Dave,

I read about 2 new models based on the Promega 3. Do the have the same sounds (and less voices, different casing)?

Grtz,
Jeroen
Hi,

You are probably referring to the new RP700 and RP800 home digital pianos. These models are the first home digital pianos (full cabinet) to use the DRAKE processor. Both feature the main Steinway and Fazioli models as well as the Rhodes 1 and Rhodes 2 models. Each have additional sounds i.e. organs, strings, choir, etc. The home digitals do not have the controller abilities of the Promega nor are the sounds programmable in these instruments. But that is OK; they are still the best sounding home digital pianos on the planet. \:\)

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: hermanjoe

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/30/04 02:20 AM

Dave,

Thanks again for your replys. I am using the Promega 3 for a recording session in the next few weeks. Mainly using it for the rhodes. I'll let you all know how it turns out. Any advice on the using the Promega for a session?
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/30/04 09:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by hermanjoe:
Dave,

Thanks again for your replys. I am using the Promega 3 for a recording session in the next few weeks. Mainly using it for the rhodes. I'll let you all know how it turns out. Any advice on the using the Promega for a session?
Hi,

Please do let me know how the session turns out.

Here are a couple if things to try;

Set the master volume fader in the full up position to get maximum dynamic range.

You might want to consider bypassing the EQ and internal effects and then EQ and add effects after all tracks are recorded. Unless of course a sounds' character is due to a unique internal effect setting.

Have fun. I would love to hear the recording once it is complete.

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: hermanjoe

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/30/04 03:21 PM

Dave,

Thanks. Good advice. I'll have to talk to the recording engineer about what he's going to do afterwards in the mix. This is a Jazz recording and its going to be live. I'm thinking he will do very minimal mixing. In that case I'll probably get my sound from the Promega, but if it turns out he will be doing a bit of mixing then I will definatley take your advice and shed the EQ and effects.

One thing I must say is that the Promega's 8 band EQ is very good. It makes a huge difference in the sound. And it is noiseless! I used onboard eq's from other keyboards, but this is the best I've encountered yet!

The only other thing I could want from GEM is to offer future sound upgrades like Clavia does with their electro keyboards. It's a big selling point for them. I understand that the GEM technology is very different and unique. But it would be cool to change and update patches. Maybe in the future!

Tom
Posted by: hermanjoe

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/30/04 08:07 PM

Dave,

Any recommendation for a distortion effect to use with the Promega 3? I would like to get a tubey cruch to the rhodes sound. I am planning on buying a speakeasy tube pre soon. Maybe that would do it.

Thanks
Posted by: BOPBEEPER

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/30/04 09:17 PM

Speaking of 'new' sounds for the Pro Mega - The mother board totaly expired on my PM2 so I opened it up to see If there was anything obviously unconected etc. I noticed that the main board has I think four slots for daughter boards but only one of these is occupied! What are the vacant slots for? Any ideas DaveMcm?
Another bizzare observation (the reason for this was never fully expained) was that the cable connectors which ussualy snap in were hot-glued in place - all 6 of them. This had the techie real woried at first but the glue was soft and could be cut through with a scalpel.

Hermanjoe
To give the rhodes a bit more bite I use the compressor but that means you cant use wah or tremelo on that sound so I use a mono out into the Adrenalin which has amp sims and a good Leslie sim.
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/30/04 09:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by hermanjoe:

The only other thing I could want from GEM is to offer future sound upgrades like Clavia does with their electro keyboards. It's a big selling point for them. I understand that the GEM technology is very different and unique. But it would be cool to change and update patches. Maybe in the future!

Tom
Hi Tom,

Since the entire instrument is software based, anything and everything, including sample data has the possibility of being changed. Of course this would be a huge undertaking. I don't know of any plans to make changes at this time, but I will let you know if I hear something.

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/30/04 09:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by hermanjoe:
Dave,

Any recommendation for a distortion effect to use with the Promega 3? I would like to get a tubey cruch to the rhodes sound. I am planning on buying a speakeasy tube pre soon. Maybe that would do it.

Thanks
Now there is something that I am not all that familiar with. How about running it through an old twin reverb cranked all the way up, that's what we used to do years ago. \:\)

Please let me know how the speakeasy tube preamp works out.

Dave
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/30/04 10:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BOPBEEPER:
[QB]Speaking of 'new' sounds for the Pro Mega - The mother board totaly expired on my PM2 so I opened it up to see If there was anything obviously unconected etc. I noticed that the main board has I think four slots for daughter boards but only one of these is occupied! What are the vacant slots for? Any ideas DaveMcm?
Another bizzare observation (the reason for this was never fully expained) was that the cable connectors which ussualy snap in were hot-glued in place - all 6 of them. This had the techie real woried at first but the glue was soft and could be cut through with a scalpel.QB]
Hi,

The slots you are referring to are for additional DRAKE daughter boards. Wait, don't get excited. I imagine the main PCB is the same one used in the Promega 3 which has 5 DRAKE processors as opposed to the Promega 2's 3 DRAKE's. (one DRAKE on the MB and 2 per daughter board) Sorry, but it is not possible to use these sockets that I am aware of. The additional DRAKE's are providing the increased polyphony and double the bands of EQ. But the sounds are exactly the same. I own the Promega 2 myself and love it.

The hot glue is there simply to provide additional security that the cables will stay connected. No big deal. As you found out, it is easy to remove if necessary.

You didn't mention if your Promega 2 is back in working order. If there is any way I can help out in this matter, please let me know.

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: BOPBEEPER

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/30/04 10:57 PM

Dave,
Thanks for the explanation.And yeah,I did get a new motherboard fitted under the warranty but I dread to think what I would have be charged out of warranty! Now I'm crossing my fingers and hoping thet this board has a beter run of luck than the Equinox did ,software wise.
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/30/04 11:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BOPBEEPER:
Dave,
Thanks for the explanation.And yeah,I did get a new motherboard fitted under the warranty but I dread to think what I would have be charged out of warranty! Now I'm crossing my fingers and hoping thet this board has a beter run of luck than the Equinox did ,software wise.
The Promega 2 and 3 have been very dependable here in the US. No real problems to speak of.

Good to hear that yours is up and running again,

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/31/04 08:40 PM

Anybody care to venture a guess, as to whom these user settings might be referring to? Unfortunately, I'm not giving any hints on the instrumentation. Not that anybody here should need any hints..

Where's Steve

Good Doobie

Krome Leggs

Just Like Chuck

EJ'S Emkayess

3rd Impression

Raspy RMI

Yawnee Live

Ibiza Chill

..much appreciated.
S.
Posted by: Immo

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 07/31/04 09:04 PM

Some I'm pretty sure, some I'm guessing...

Where's Steve - Stevie Wonder

Good Doobie - Doobie Brothers

Krome Leggs

Just Like Chuck

EJ'S Emkayess

3rd Impression - Reference to Emerson Lake and Palmer's "Karn Evil 9: Third Impression" although the Promega 3 demo CD actually plays the first impression part 1 using this setting (so if you want the whom it would be the Keith Emerson part of ELP)

Raspy RMI - Maybe just a reference to RMI Electric Piano

Yawnee Live - Yani

Ibiza Chill

..much appreciated.
S.
Posted by: Tedly Nightshade

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/02/04 06:00 PM

Well, looks like I will have to drive up to Piano Liquidators and try this thing. I will be completely astonished if it can come close to a real piano. And glad! Nothing I have heard but a real piano has the percussive and soundboard qualities of the real thing. It would rather revolutionize my life if it does in fact sound passable- nothing else I've heard is even close.

I fussed with a PianoNouvelle for a while before going with the Kawai MP9000- which I use mostly with the non-piano sounds. I will say that you would do very, very well indeed to create effects of the quality of the MP9000!

So, we'll give it a shot...
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/02/04 07:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Ted Nightshade:
Well, looks like I will have to drive up to Piano Liquidators and try this thing. I will be completely astonished if it can come close to a real piano. And glad! Nothing I have heard but a real piano has the percussive and soundboard qualities of the real thing. It would rather revolutionize my life if it does in fact sound passable- nothing else I've heard is even close.

I fussed with a PianoNouvelle for a while before going with the Kawai MP9000- which I use mostly with the non-piano sounds. I will say that you would do very, very well indeed to create effects of the quality of the MP9000!

So, we'll give it a shot...
Hi Ted,

Nice to meet you. I am glad to hear you are going to give the Promega a try. Be sure to call Don Thummel at Piano Liquidators to let him know when to expect you. The number is 541-343-0107.

If you have any questions about the Promega before or after you visit with Don, please do not hesitate to contact me via e-mail or on the forum.

Be sure to play with the 8 band EQ as the sound can be shaped quite a bit just from those knobs. Also, I am pretty sure Don will have the Promega amplified in stereo but if it is going mono, try the Grand 1 and Grand 2 settings which are mono versions of the Steinway and Fazioli concert grand pianos. Also take a good set of headphones with you to block out any outside noise so you can get the full effect of what the instrument is capable of producing.

Best Regards,

Dave McMahan
Generalmusic USA
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/03/04 07:25 PM

Sorry, didn't mean to post this. Tried to delete.
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/03/04 07:37 PM

Hey Ted,

Just thought I would let you know that I am going to be in Oregon at the state fair at the end of the month. Piano Liquidators is going to have a GEM booth there. Yes, I said the state fair. Go figure. I was there last year and people actually do buy pianos/keyboards at the fair. Must be a west coast thing. I am in Cincinnati, OH and the majority of what is sold at the Ohio state fair is corn dogs and funnel cakes. \:\)

I am not sure of the dates yet, but it will either be August 28 and 29 or September 4 and 5. I would love to meet you if you are anywhere close the fair grounds during that time.

PS. they probably sell funnel cakes so maybe we could do lunch.

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: hermanjoe

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/05/04 07:40 PM

I have been adjusting the touch on my Promega 3. I found when I adjusted it to the hard setting the action felt a lot more real. There is also a user setting where you can input the exact touch you prefer. It really made a difference how my playing was connecting to the sound. Action for me is more how one's playing connects to the instrument and sound than just the pressure it takes to hit the key and push it down. If you have a Promega definatley mess with this feature.
Posted by: c4

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/05/04 08:26 PM

Dave

Which of the pianos on the pro mega 3 are in stereo? I know you mentioned the fazolli but what others?
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/05/04 09:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by hermanjoe:
I have been adjusting the touch on my Promega 3. I found when I adjusted it to the hard setting the action felt a lot more real. There is also a user setting where you can input the exact touch you prefer. It really made a difference how my playing was connecting to the sound. Action for me is more how one's playing connects to the instrument and sound than just the pressure it takes to hit the key and push it down. If you have a Promega definatley mess with this feature.
Hi,

Thanks for pointing this out. You are absolutely correct that how a sound responds to the player’s fingers makes a real mental difference in how the keyboard "feels".

Keep on playin'

Dave
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/05/04 09:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by c4:
Dave

Which of the pianos on the pro mega 3 are in stereo? I know you mentioned the fazolli but what others?
Hello,

I take it you are referring to the acoustic pianos.

Both the Steinway and Fazioli are offered in stereo and mono versions. Stereo Grand 1 is the stereo Steinway and Stereo Grand 2 is the stereo Fazioli. The sounds named Grand 1 and Grand 2 are the mono versions of these sounds. If you are playing through a mono sound system, try using the mono versions so there is no phase cancellation that can occur when summing a stereo signal to mono.

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/05/04 10:01 PM

Hi Dave,

Regarding the stereo pianos, I don't know if I need to get my ears checked or what, but I find the treble range to be equally spread across the stereo field, whereas the bass is indeed more pronounced in the left. Is it just me?

Sue
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/05/04 10:06 PM

PS, I am listening through decent headphones.

I'll add a second question while I'm here..

I'd like to layer the keyboard in such a way that one sound is across the board, and an additional sound is sent to the left. Is it possible to do this without cancelling out the original layer on the left?

thanks, Sue
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/06/04 12:33 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by gangsu:
Hi Dave,

Regarding the stereo pianos, I don't know if I need to get my ears checked or what, but I find the treble range to be equally spread across the stereo field, whereas the bass is indeed more pronounced in the left. Is it just me?

Sue
Hi Sue,

I'l have to take a close listen and let you know.

Dave
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/06/04 12:42 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by gangsu:
I'd like to layer the keyboard in such a way that one sound is across the board, and an additional sound is sent to the left. Is it possible to do this without cancelling out the original layer on the left?

thanks, Sue
Hello again,

Not that I am aware of. I was trying to think if there was a way to trick it into doing this via MIDI, but I don't think so. Give me a few days to try some things and I will let you know.

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/06/04 08:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DaveMcM:
I'l have to take a close listen and let you know.
edit: long story short, don't worry about it. ;\)
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/06/04 08:39 AM

Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/08/04 07:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DaveMcM:
If you are playing through a mono sound system, try using the mono versions so there is no phase cancellation that can occur when summing a stereo signal to mono.
I borrowed an amp today so I could experiment. I can't believe it!!! The mono pianos sound so much better than the stereo pianos, when played through a mono system. They are every bit as superior as the stereo pianos are, when using a stereo system! Sounds obvious? So call me slow.

Thanks for the great advice.

Sue
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/09/04 12:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by gangsu:
I borrowed an amp today so I could experiment. I can't believe it!!! The mono pianos sound so much better than the stereo pianos, when played through a mono system. They are every bit as superior as the stereo pianos are, when using a stereo system! Sounds obvious? So call me slow.

Thanks for the great advice.

Sue
Glad to hear that you hear the difference. \:D

Dave
Posted by: hermanjoe

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/09/04 01:49 AM

So can we infer that unless your playing through a stereo system it is better to use the mono piano samples? What if the stereo piano was summed to mono using a mixing board? Also, what mono sample is the steinway sample? I know stereo grand 1 is a Steinway.
Dave is there a download or pdf. somewhere that says what pianos are what in the promega. i.e. Funk piano is a mono steinway sample? Which is my guess. Don't know if it's true.

Thanks again.

Tom
Posted by: hermanjoe

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/09/04 02:10 AM

Ok I take it back. Funk Piano definatley sounds stereo.
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/09/04 11:29 AM

Hi Tom,

For both the mono and stereo versions;
Grand 1 is Steinway and Grand 2 is Fazioli.

Yes, if you are going through a mono system, I would suggest using the mono versions of these sounds. Summing a stereo sound to mono in the instrument itself or in an external mixer can still result in phase cancellation which will thin out the sound.

To my knowledge there is not a document available that details each sound. I'll see what I can find out for you.

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/09/04 11:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DaveMcM:
phase cancellation which will thin out the sound.
..to a horrendous degree! There's nothing "theoretical" about it.
Posted by: hermanjoe

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/09/04 02:29 PM

Thank ya sir! Very good to know.

Tom
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/09/04 04:48 PM

uhhh, if you don't mind me saying, what you should really be thanking Dave for, is his gracious acceptance of having to repeat himself *over* and *over* :rolleyes:

Let's not forget to thank c4 for raising the question of stereo pianos in the first place. Good question, c4.
Posted by: hermanjoe

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/09/04 05:15 PM

I was!
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/09/04 05:24 PM

riighghhght. Ok. \:D good man.
Posted by: GEM-PaulD

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/09/04 06:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by gangsu:
PS, I am listening through decent headphones.

I'll add a second question while I'm here..

I'd like to layer the keyboard in such a way that one sound is across the board, and an additional sound is sent to the left. Is it possible to do this without cancelling out the original layer on the left?

thanks, Sue
Sue, Every sound (section) can be paned left or right. You can also assign a sound to an aux output.
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/09/04 06:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by GEM-PaulD:
Sue, Every sound (section) can be paned left or right. You can also assign a sound to an aux output.
ahhhhhh! BINGO. I forgot about the panning thing. Thankyou so much. What a keyboard. \:D
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/09/04 08:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by gangsu:
Quote:
Originally posted by GEM-PaulD:
Sue, Every sound (section) can be paned left or right. You can also assign a sound to an aux output.
ahhhhhh! BINGO. I forgot about the panning thing. Thankyou so much. What a keyboard. \:D
Hi Sue (and Paul)

Sue, when you asked if a sound could be sent to left while another sound was playable across the entire keyboard, I thought you were referring to a split keyboard situation. I didn't think you were talking about sending the audio of a sound to the Left output. Sorry if I misunderstood. \:\)

Dave
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/09/04 08:20 PM

Dave: \:o You weren't wrong. I was talking about a layer plus a split. Boy do I feel dumb. I was just trying it out and realized I jumped on the good news a little too quickly.

So, the fact remains that there's a million things this keyboard CAN do, that I've yet to discover. Perhaps I'll just leave it at that for the time being. :rolleyes:

thanks again.
Sue
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/09/04 09:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by gangsu:
Dave: \:o You weren't wrong. I was talking about a layer plus a split. Boy do I feel dumb. I was just trying it out and realized I jumped on the good news a little too quickly.

So, the fact remains that there's a million things this keyboard CAN do, that I've yet to discover. Perhaps I'll just leave it at that for the time being. :rolleyes:

thanks again.
Sue
Hi Sue,

I didn't really think I was wrong. I was just being my normal nice, cordial, polite self. (inside joke with Paul) \:\)

Dave
Posted by: GEM-PaulD

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/09/04 10:51 PM

He was reminding me why he is the National Product manager. ;\)
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/09/04 11:21 PM

He's reminded us all. \:D
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/13/04 10:41 AM

Dave, I was wondering if there's an organ pedal board that plugs into the PM3? I know the keyboard covers the range, but without my feet I feel cramped playing an organ.
Posted by: hermanjoe

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/13/04 01:20 PM

check the accessories on the gem site. It should be listed there.
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/13/04 01:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by gangsu:
Dave, I was wondering if there's an organ pedal board that plugs into the PM3? I know the keyboard covers the range, but without my feet I feel cramped playing an organ.
Hi Sue,

The first question that come to mind is, isn't it going to be hard to play pedals without your feet? \:D But seriously.........

If you check our website, you will see a set of bass pedals offered. However, these are only compatible with our older WK/SK series instruments. What you need is a set of MIDI bass pedals. I'll do some checking around to see what is currently available and let you know.

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/13/04 01:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DaveMcM:
The first question that come to mind is, isn't it going to be hard to play pedals without your feet?
never thought of that

I have checked the website. You tell me that ONE MORE TIME, HERMAN JOE, AND I'M GONNA CLONK YOU ONE. With my computer. Which I'm sitting in front of. Just like you.

I know there's a pedal board that's compatible with the SK880 instrument of praise (I might have that model number slightly wrong), and I'm just wondering if it can be connected through that magical world of midi out there.

I can't afford it anyway.
thanks :rolleyes:
Posted by: hermanjoe

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/13/04 03:03 PM

Quote:
You tell me that ONE MORE TIME, HERMAN JOE, AND I'M GONNA CLONK YOU ONE. With my computer. Which I'm sitting in front of. Just like you.
Sorry, I didn't realize I suggested visiting the site so many times. I was just trying to save you time. But in all fairness to Dave, we should try to find as much info and experiment on our own as much as possible. Doing extensive research increases your knowledge of your instrument so you know what's available. Then if you hit a brick wal with a specific question that can't be answered online there's the professionals to ask. I didn't mean to patronize. Only my $.02
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/13/04 03:14 PM

Hi Sue,

Sorry for the "feet" joke. Just trying to break the pressure of an already long day.

The bass pedals that we offer will ONLY work with the WK/SK series. They are not MIDI, but a proprietary interface.

Music Industries is the US distributor for Studiologic and sells a 13 note MIDI pedal board that might work. Here is a link to the proper page of their site;
http://www.studiologic.net/mp-113.html

Roland also makes several MIDI pedal boards, but be prepared to spend a good amount of $ for them.

Good luck,

Dave
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/13/04 03:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by hermanjoe: Sorry, I didn't realize I suggested visiting the site so many times.
That's ok, you haven't. Maybe only two times.

Quote:
in all fairness to Dave, we should try to find as much info and experiment on our own as much as possible. Doing extensive research increases your knowledge of your instrument so you know what's available. Then if you hit a brick wal with a specific question that can't be answered online there's the professionals to ask.
well, extensive research is the reason I have the keyboard I do. And i've yet to meet a true professional who didn't know how to have a good time - on a forum or off.

Just your mother's 2 cent's worth. ;\)
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/13/04 03:29 PM

edited to save space. Thanks again Dave. I enjoy knowing I can ask a question, and get an answer. And when I'm lucky, a laugh along the way. \:D Sue
Posted by: Immo

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/15/04 12:47 AM

I've been playing with the footswitch damper pedal that came with my promega this evening, and I thought that it would control the footswitch options that a footswitch pedal would including (like performance+ and performance-). Well those are the functions I was hoping to use. It is a damper pedal footswitch, so maybe it's not going to work, any ideas?
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/16/04 08:48 PM

Hey Immordino,

Since I have a spare switch-type sustain pedal, I might as well hook it up and give it a try. You want to be able to step through program changes, right? That would be useful.

haha, you might never hear from me again.
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/16/04 09:23 PM

Interesting. I can program it for pan control, and those other options listed on p.33 for a "continuous pedal", but the keyboard is not recognizing it as a footswitch.

I'll keep trying til the experts take over
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/16/04 09:36 PM

Well I'll say one thing, a sustain pedal makes a heck of a poor volume pedal. All the way down is loud, half-way down is soft, and then there's OFF.
Posted by: Immo

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/16/04 11:04 PM

Yeah discovered that myself with the volume. Maybe we'll have to break it open and hotwire it to do our bidding!
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/17/04 12:14 AM

Hahha, I don't get it. Would you consider this pedal to have "normally closed contacts" or "normally open"? I think it's somewhere in-between.

Maybe somebody else who's used a pedal for program changes could illuminate?
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/17/04 11:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by gangsu:
Hahha, I don't get it. Would you consider this pedal to have "normally closed contacts" or "normally open"? I think it's somewhere in-between.

Maybe somebody else who's used a pedal for program changes could illuminate?
Hi There.

Sorry I haven't responded to the pedal questions. I was traveling in Florida and getting a decent internet connection was close to impossible where I located so I had to wait until I was back in my office. I just made it home and am about ready to fall over from being on airplanes all day and having nothing to eat but stale pretzels. I will read through your comments and tomorrow and see if there is any help I can offer.

Thanks for understanding,

Dave
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/18/04 12:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DaveMcM:
..am about ready to fall over from being on airplanes all day and having nothing to eat but stale pretzels.
..what I'd give for your exotic lifestyle!
Take your time. Nobody doubted you for a moment.
Posted by: GEM-PaulD

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/18/04 01:46 PM

I am getting concerned with Dave's level of service... No responce in a day! Dave... your slipping. ;\)
Posted by: ZILINE

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/18/04 06:14 PM

Hi all !
Very interresting topic...
I'm french , and lucky owner of a Promega 2 since december 2003.
I have bought this piano cos' I've fallen in love with the best ever heard sound of (digital) piano and other incredible vintage sounds !
But...
Cos there's a "but"...
Last week I had to play for a concert but it never started...The yellow digit stood tall , usually first steps are : ignition -> generalmusic promega2->loading os and sounds (for a minut)...But this time...nothing happened...I've called the sailer to inform him of my problem , but , He only knew about the "reset" combination : "on" button+"standby" front button together...nothing did...
He had another one working in his shop and we decided to exchange both alim block and motherboard with soundcard !
I've received all this today , and now :
The "promega generalmusic" announcement appears , but nothing goes on...
I've done a "reset" and it restarted !!!But...there's unfortunally another sad "but"...never restarted since...
I just had time to see that I've now (cos I'm not sure I had it before) O.S 1.01...
NOWHERE to find the famous 1.05 update ????
Is it dead ? ....
I really need help...

Thanks to any advise

(sorry for my english...)

Stef

PS : Yamaha p120 is a toy compared to promega !
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/18/04 06:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by GEM-PaulD:
I am getting concerned with Dave's level of service... No responce in a day! Dave... your slipping. ;\)
Yeah, I know. What a slacker!

LOL,

Dave
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/18/04 06:53 PM

Hi Stef!

You have an emergency! Hang in there, the boys from head office should be around shortly.

\:D \:D *tsk* *tsk*
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/18/04 06:55 PM

!
Posted by: ZILINE

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/18/04 06:58 PM

Something to add :
When I unplug the alim , the promega restart after approximatively 20 minutes...Is it a condenser that make some whims ?



If anything happens on stage...I'll die...
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/18/04 07:29 PM

OK Immordino and Gansu,

Let's figure this whole pedal thing out, shall we?

As described on pages 32 and 33 of the manual, there are three types of pedals;
Normally open switch type
Normally closed switch type
Continuous controller type (potentiometer)

The Promega has the ability to determine what type of pedal (open or closed switch, or continuous) is inserted in the 3 pedal inputs. This happens at boot-up of the system so it is important to have any pedals you wish to use plugged in before powering up the instrument.

Note: the single pedal that came with your Promega is a switch type pedal.

The Damper Pedal Input is used solely for providing damper control. With a switch type pedal, this will mean that you will have full sustain when the pedal is depressed and no sustain when the pedal is not engaged.

We offer a 3 pedal unit we refer to as our Pro Pedal. The leftmost and center pedals are switch type pedals and can be used for any of the functions described on page 33 in the upper box labeled "FOOTSWITCH (either type)".
Immordino, this is where you can assign switch pedals to select the next or previous performance. The pedal on the right is actually a continuous controller and will allow the Promega to accurately simulate the variations in response of an acoustic piano damper system. We call it Damper Physical Modeling.

A cool thing about the operating system is once the Promega has determined what type of pedal(s) are plugged into the pedal inputs, only the options relative to the available pedal types are displayed. This saves from having to scroll through menus that are not valid given the types of pedals connected making programming easier and faster.

So all that being said, if you have several switch type pedals; with the main power off plug them into the appropriate inputs and then power up the Promega. Once the boot-up process is complete, press the CONTR button to access the pedal functions. Follow along starting at the top of page 32 and see if you can set the pedal functions to what you desire.

If you want to control volume or the WhaWha effect with your foot,
"Gansu, from a past post I remember that you are without feet, so use whatever extremity you desire" LOL \:D
you will need either the standard or Pro volume pedal that we offer. I can’t guarantee how other brands of continuous controller (CC) volume pedals will function, so I would suggest that you use one of ours.

I hope that helps sort things out. If not, I’ll be right here...or there...or wherever Paul wants to send me. Next Stop, Salem Oregon, September 5th and 6th. Whoo Hoo!

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/18/04 07:43 PM

Hello Stef (ZILINE),

Sorry to hear about the problems you are having with your Promega 2.

Please explain the word "alim". I tried my translator but could find that word. I want to understand what you are saying about unplugging the alim.

You Wrote:
Quote:
When I unplug the alim , the promega restart after approximatively 20 minutes...Is it a condenser that make some whims ?
Also explain the word whims. Thanks.

One thing for you to know is that version 1.01 is the current version for the Promega 2. Version 1.05 that you referenced is for the Promega 3.

I'll try to help you as best I can from here, but maybe it would be good to take this instrument to the authorized service technician to get things straightened out.

Best Regards,

Dave McMahan
Generalmusic USA
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/18/04 07:51 PM

Stef,

One more thing. Great band picture! I took a look at your website and the photo gallery and envy the beautiful places where you get to play music. If you ever need a roadie for a week or so.....

Best Regards,

Dave McMahan
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/18/04 07:58 PM

Hey Dave,

It works! Performance Plus. But it only works once. A one-step wonder. I want to keep going! I want the whole show programmed. That's possible?

BTW, on these new PM3's, there's absolutely no bootup time. By the time you can say General Music, it's up and running.

The other interesting thing, is that it remembers how you plugged the 3 pedal unit in the very first time. My buddy mixed up ped-1 and ped-2, and now that's the way I have to continue plugging them in! Otherwise, soft is in the middle and sos is on the left. Very confusing. I could reprogram each time, but it's simpler just to keep doing it wrong.

Thanks a lot.
ganGsu \:\)
Posted by: ZILINE

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/18/04 08:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DaveMcM:

Please explain the word "alim". I tried my translator but could find that word. I want to understand what you are saying about unplugging the alim.
In fact "alim" is electric cable , I mean turn power off , and unplug electric cable so that ( I think...) condensers empty themselves ...

And "whim" \:D has been given by one of those translators , I just wanted to say that condensers can make jokes too !!! :p

Bad joke in my case...

Quote:
Stef,

One more thing. Great band picture! I took a look at your website and the photo gallery and envy the beautiful places where you get to play music. If you ever need a roadie for a week or so.....

Best Regards,

Dave McMahan
I'm actually starting to play on southern France stages where I live , I'm OK with you : its wonderfull !But If I could add photos from ZILINE on USA stages...I'll do it quick , believe me !!!
And I'm pretty sure you would be greater behind a piano than pushing a flightcase!!!!

Quote:
I'll try to help you as best I can from here, but maybe it would be good to take this instrument to the authorized service technician to get things straightened out
I've bought the piano in north eastern France , that's why we preffered first to send motherboard and power supply rather than the promega ...

Thanks for your help Dave
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/18/04 11:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by gangsu:
Hey Dave,

It works! Performance Plus. But it only works once. A one-step wonder. I want to keep going! I want the whole show programmed. That's possible?
ganGsu \:\)
Hi Sue,

Now think about it a little. When you programmed the pedal(s) to advance to the next performance you programmed that pedal assignment in the one performance you were working with.

Ah Ha! There's the answer. You have to program pedal assignments in each performance. There might be songs that you need to shift back and forth through specific performances with your foot, but other times when you want the pedals to respond like a real piano, or to be able to turn sound sections on and off via a footswitch, etc. Does that make sense? The light just clicked on, didn't it? Now aren't you embarrassed for not thinking of that? "You know I'm just having fun here, right. \:\)

Keep those questions coming!

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/18/04 11:42 PM

Hi Stef,

Thanks for the clarification on "alim" and for the condenser joke. I get it now. \:\)

I would love to hear some of your bands music. Can you point me to a place on your website that has some mp3's so I can listen?

I hope you get your Promega 2 working properly. If there is any way I can help get things resolved, I am happy to do so.

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: ZILINE

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/19/04 12:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DaveMcM:

I would love to hear some of your bands music. Can you point me to a place on your website that has some mp3's so I can listen?

I hope you get your Promega 2 working properly. If there is any way I can help get things resolved, I am happy to do so.

Hi Dave ,

HERE can you find some titles from ZILINE , I hope you'll like it...Unfortunately I haven't recorded those songs with promega , I didn't own it yet...(4 month later... \:\( ) It would have been much better I think !

My piano still has the same problem...I must wait at least 20 minutes so that it reboot...
I'm really confused...
Hope somebody knows what to do ?

Best regards
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/19/04 12:52 AM

Hi Stef,

What I would like you to do is contact Raffaele Mirabella in Italy. Go to http://www.generalmusic.com, click on the GEM logo, choose a language, then click on support from the left of the window, and explain the problem in the appropriate field. Also put a note directing the message to Raffaele. He should be able to help you out. Please let me know the results.

Thanks and good luck,

Dave
Posted by: Immo

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/19/04 02:56 AM

Sue,

I don't suspect this will ever happen again, but I think in this instance I can be more helpful than Dave \:D .

I was reminded this evening whilst fiddling with my pedals of a feature called pedal mode (I'm I'm not talking about the areas where you set each pedal). If you press control (CONTR.) and press the right arrow button until it stops changing, and then press the left one once (or you can press the right button until you hit PED (Pedal Mode) which by default is set to multiple. Then press the "1" preset button, which will select global mode. Now you can set the pedals and have them the same for all peformances.

By the way I figured out why I was having trouble setting the performance+ setting. Evidently you have to press the pedal at least once before you enter the pedal setting menu in order for it to be able to properly detect which pedal it is (you'd think I'd think of that long ago, hey maybe it can't autodetect if it's got nothing to detect).

Hope this helps, and ZILINE, I sure hope you can get your keyboard fixed, I'm sure it's a great board.
Posted by: Immo

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/19/04 03:02 AM

P.S. I think my sustenuto and soft pedal (did I name them right, I really should know) are switched as well (from what a piano would normally be). I know I made careful effort to make sure the pedals went into the right jacks the first and every time.

However of course the easy work around it just to put them in the opposite jack every time which appears to work.
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/19/04 11:27 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DaveMcM:
Now think about it a little... The light just clicked on, didn't it?
Ok dave, you're so smart guess what. I got the CAt all figured out. Hahhaha. Big band intro Ba Ba_Da DAH!, hit the pedal and Jimmy's taking it away, hit the pedal and BAMM a brass lick, holy shit all the while trying to keep that left hand in rhythm..... What a hoot.

Is that what you meant? \:D \:D
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/19/04 11:32 AM

Immordino, I didn't realize you had the 3 pedal unit too! And here I was dicking around with el cheapo. Thanks for the good idea. (it works)

That's funny that your pedals are backwards too! I suppose we could retrain our feet?
Posted by: Immo

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/19/04 11:33 AM

Yeah I know the feeling. I ran through Anne Bolyn (well part of it) last night and changed sound sets very liberally approximately every bar. It was a blast. Rick probably would've been proud, then again it did sound quite weird at times.
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/19/04 11:40 AM

with er ed, tucked, underneath er arm, she waaaaaaawked the bluddy towerrr
oops WRONG, that was Stanley somebody
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/19/04 11:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Immordino:
Sue,

I don't suspect this will ever happen again, but I think in this instance I can be more helpful than Dave \:D .
:o Ouch!
Thanks for pointing that out. Not sure why I omitted that little tidbit, but I'm glad you jumped in and saved my ___ ;\)

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/19/04 11:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by gangsu:
Quote:
Originally posted by DaveMcM:
Now think about it a little... The light just clicked on, didn't it?
Ok dave, you're so smart guess what. I got the CAt all figured out. Hahhaha. Big band intro Ba Ba_Da DAH!, hit the pedal and Jimmy's taking it away, hit the pedal and BAMM a brass lick, holy shit all the while trying to keep that left hand in rhythm..... What a hoot.

Is that what you meant? \:D \:D
Bah_Doo Dah....Bah Do_Be_Do Dah Dah.....
Love that horn break!

Dave
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/19/04 11:56 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DaveMcM:
I'm glad you jumped in and saved my ___ ;\)
now if you could've only jumped in and saved my feet
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/19/04 11:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DaveMcM:
Bah_Doo Dah....Bah Do_Be_Do Dah Dah.....
Yeah that's it! It's even harder to type it than it is to play it! I'm impressed!!
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/19/04 12:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Immordino:
P.S. I think my sustenuto and soft pedal (did I name them right, I really should know) are switched as well (from what a piano would normally be). I know I made careful effort to make sure the pedals went into the right jacks the first and every time.

However of course the easy work around it just to put them in the opposite jack every time which appears to work.
Hi,

Just curious, do you have the original Pro Pedal (big molded case) or the new version that is not much wider than the 3 pedals?

At one point in manufacturing, some of the cables were labeled backwards for Ped1 and Ped2. So reversing those 2 cables is exactly what needs to be done.

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/19/04 12:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by gangsu:
Quote:
Originally posted by DaveMcM:
Bah_Doo Dah....Bah Do_Be_Do Dah Dah.....
Yeah that's it! It's even harder to type it than it is to play it! I'm impressed!!
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/19/04 12:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DaveMcM:
Just curious, do you have the original Pro Pedal (big molded case) or the new version that is not much wider than the 3 pedals?
Mine is the same as the unit pictured: 970418. Interesting. Maybe my friend didn't goof up afterall. I gotta stop blaming him for everything.
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/19/04 12:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by gangsu:
Quote:
Originally posted by DaveMcM:
Just curious, do you have the original Pro Pedal (big molded case) or the new version that is not much wider than the 3 pedals?
Mine is the same as the unit pictured: 970418. Interesting. Maybe my friend didn't goof up afterall. I gotta stop blaming him for everything.
Thanks Sue. I have the same pedal unit and Ped1 and Ped2 are labeled backwards as well. No problems.

Dave
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/19/04 12:41 PM

That's funny! Well, it'll be our little secret. ;\) Don't tell my friend. He needs to learn to walk carefully around here anyway.
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/19/04 12:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by gangsu:
That's funny! Well, it'll be our little secret. ;\) Don't tell my friend. He needs to learn to walk carefully around here anyway.
;)
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/19/04 12:59 PM

;\) \:\)

[deleting unfair questiion ]

I heard from a VERY trusted source on this forum that General music owns FBT. They make a speaker that I just can't find a negative review on anywhere. Any thoughts?
Posted by: c4

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/19/04 02:31 PM

how much is the 3 pedal unit for the pro mega 3?
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/19/04 02:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by c4:
how much is the 3 pedal unit for the pro mega 3?
..CA$159 plus tax. I think. Or maybe it was $149. I thought any switch pedal would operate the extra functions, but unless I did something wrong, it appears not. Have you tried?
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/19/04 03:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by gangsu:
;\) \:\)

[deleting unfair questiion ]

I heard from a VERY trusted source on this forum that General music owns FBT. They make a speaker that I just can't find a negative review on anywhere. Any thoughts?
That question wasn't unfair. Anyway,

I am unaware of any relationship between GEM and FBT. This certainly doesn't mean that one does or does not exist. Generalmusic USA only handles the distribution of GEM keyboard products. Generalmusic also manufactures the LEM series of pro level sound reinforcement. The LEM d400 is a similar speaker/amp configuration similar to the FBT MaxxA systems. But I don't think they are related. You probably want to contact GEM in Italy to find out the full scoop.

As for recommending an amp/speaker for your Promega;
There are so many different aspects to take into consideration; it is just not possible to point you at a specific system. The perfect speaker system partially depends on the style of music and types of sounds you play, whether you go solo or play with an ensemble, the size of the venue and your location in it, how large of an audience you have to cover, or will this speaker be for personal monitoring only, stereo or mono, etc. These are just several of the questions I would ask if I was on the sales floor trying to help a customer decide what to buy in the way of a speaker system. Other considerations are cost and size/weight.

Personally I am still looking for the perfect amp. I use a JBL EON 15PAK. I use the EON simply because we use EON's as stage monitors in our band and it is easier to control feedback if all of the speakers are the same model.

I have owned a Roland MC500 in the past but it ended up sitting in the basement more than it did on gigs so I sold it. I have heard good things about the Barbetta amps and Motion Sound. My favorite keyboard amp was manufactured by Marshall. That’s right, the screaming guitar amp company. It had a single 15” and a 1” horn mounted HF driver, several inputs and EQ. It was in a silver tolex covered cabinet. Very easy to carry around and sounded fair to OK. It was fun to wheel in a Marshall amp to a gig and have people think I was one of the guitar players. I still didn’t get the girls though! \:\(

I would love to have a couple of EAW FR153's. They were great for keyboard. A good mixer and power amp and there would be a system I would be happy with. The FR153's apparently are not made anymore. I just looked at the EAW website and there is a new trapezoidal version but I don't think they use the same components as were in the original 153's. I have a pair of EAW FR253's that we use for our PA and the Promega sounds incredible through them. But you need a small van and a couple of weight lifters to move them around. Oh well, the search goes on.

Dave
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/19/04 03:15 PM

A while back I had downloaded all the stuff I could find on that d400. It intrigued me with all the DSP controls, and the fact that it uses a neomydium (sp?) magnet, which i don't know how that intreprets soundwise, but weightwise it's a bonus. But it's disappeared from the website. I looked and looked. I'll look again...

I appreciate your thoughts on the situation!

*DSP, DSI, you know what I mean, those digital signals
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/19/04 03:34 PM

hi again, that speaker is still there. It was just hiding a bit.

I do still love that "M".
Posted by: marino

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/19/04 03:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by gangsu:
I heard from a VERY trusted source on this forum that General music owns FBT.
I heard that a few months ago from someone who works in the Italian MI industry. He's usually a very reliable source, so I guessed the info was correct. GeneralMusic does have a tendency to buy the smaller, historical Italian brands - Elka and LEM, for example. Perhaps I shouldn't have taken it for granted - I'll try to get some more insight and I'll keep you posted.
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/19/04 04:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by marino:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by gangsu:
[qb]I'll try to get some more insight and I'll keep you posted.
Hi marino, didn't mean to put you on the spot. \:D I wish I was in Italy. I picture walking down a cobbled street and stopping in a little music shop that opens into Fazioli grands and shelves of Strads and in the new wing off the back every keyboard and speaker your country ever manufactured. Guess that means a rack of accordians too. \:D
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/19/04 05:17 PM

Hey Sue,

Another keyboard amp idea I have been kicking around for quite some time is Carvin. http://www.carvin.com/products/group.php?CID=KBA They are strictly mail order though I think they do have a store or two on the west coast.

They have a very nice looking stereo keyboard mixer/amp in a 2 space rack configuration with 7 channels, good EQ and lots of patching choices. This head unit is also available in two speaker cabinet choices neither of which are very light but Keyboard did a review on the 2/10 version and seemed to like it.

If anyone has experience with the KB1000 head and/or either speaker configuration, please post some comments.

Thanks,

Dave
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/19/04 05:50 PM

Dave! 84-109 pounds ea? Are you some kind of Atlas?
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/19/04 06:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by gangsu:
Dave! 84-109 pounds ea? Are you some kind of Atlas?
"Oh Yeah! Atlas describes me to a tee! Women fall to their knees when they see me coming. HaHaHa."

They do seem a bit heavy don't they? One option would be to buy only the KB1000 head unit. I already have a two space rack that I could put it in for transport. I have a high end JBL 15" speaker and the vented mid-range driver and high frequency driver w/crossover from an old EV S183 cabinet from years back. So I could build a cabinet to house the speakers and that would probably be a bit lighter to carry.

The problem is I don't really think you can beat separate components for the best possible sound. I.e. a good quality mixer, amplifier and two full range speaker cabinets placed for good stereo separation. But that means more trips to the car, more cables and the chance for a 4th hernia operation.

See ya,

Dave
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/19/04 06:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DaveMcM:
"Oh Yeah! Atlas describes me to a tee!
See ya,
WAIT take me with you!

seriously, I haven't got a clue about double space racks and stuff. All I know is, I want STEREO that I can walk in the middle of. LOL

Sue
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/19/04 06:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by gangsu:
Quote:
Originally posted by DaveMcM:
"Oh Yeah! Atlas describes me to a tee!
See ya,
WAIT take me with you!

seriously, I haven't got a clue about double space racks and stuff. All I know is, I want STEREO that I can walk in the middle of. LOL

Sue
Well, there has been a lot of talk recently about the Bose PAS system. Both good and bad remarks. I know that Bose uses a Promega 3 to demonstrate how well acoustic piano is produced by this system. I would want a tower on each side of me for true stereo. The only problem is I would have to sell my car in order to be able to afford two PAS systems with subwoofers. That would present a problem for getting to gigs to pay for another car. Kind of a "catch 22" thing. \:\)

Dave

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: ZILINE

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/19/04 07:04 PM

Hi all !

I come back to say ( and I hope it will be for a long time !!! ) my promega 2 is back !!!!
Don't ask me what I've changed...nothing!
I've just let it plugged all night long and today also , then this evening I've decided to turn power off and restart , just to see .... it's rebooting !!! I've done it 5 times now , and it seems to be good...

Certainly a kind of grinding after changing motherboard ???

Seems to be cool now... :rolleyes:

Gangsu , I do use my promega with two old peavey ( two voices )and a master amplifier (Yamaha P350) , believe me , it's a bit encumbering , but the best way to have a real stereo sound , I can just advise you tu keep such a system (I mean two speakers ) nevermind what product You prefer , that depend on your money... \:\( here are some behringer , not so expensive , it's just an example , if you want better , like APG , Mackie or JBL Eon ... you must try it !!! And ....work ! \:\)

Thanks again for your support here , Dave and Immordino , and you !

Best wishes for all of you !
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/19/04 09:49 PM

Hi Stef,

Glad you're promega's working again! So all you had to do, was let it sit for a day? Maybe your keyboard needed a holiday! \:D

Yeah, I'm still looking for the right speakers. It's kind of fun actually, learning as much about the possibilities as I can. Thanks for the pictures, and the encouragement! I appreciate that.

So I checked out your website (something I like doing around here ;\) ), and it's very colourful and complex, like a tapestry. I wasn't sure where I was. Just like your music, I'm not sure where it puts me. But I listened to ZILENE and got hooked right away. Very sensual playing, a sort of controlled slow burn. You're good!

Well, it was fun meeting another GEM fan! Hope you come back sometime. And yes, I will keep working.

Sue
Posted by: marino

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/19/04 10:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by gangsu:
Quote:
Originally posted by marino:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by gangsu:
[qb]I'll try to get some more insight and I'll keep you posted.
Hi marino, didn't mean to put you on the spot.

No problem. I already tried to call my acquaintance, but it seems he's on vacation in some very far part of the world... maybe next week.

\:D I wish I was in Italy. I picture walking down a cobbled street and stopping in a little music shop that opens into Fazioli grands and shelves of Strads

You forgot the chaotic traffic, in Rome at least... but I don't want to spoil your romantic images. \:D In fact, this is the best moment to enjoy Rome; around the middle of August, there are about ten days when most romans are away. Unfortunately, for me, the fact that I *am* here also means no vacations this summer... \:\(

and in the new wing off the back every keyboard and speaker your country ever manufactured. Guess that means a rack of accordians too. \:D

Yeah, and also a truckload of home keyboards. I would settle for a "greatest hits": Synket, Elka Synthex and MK88, Crumar Spirit and Trilogy, Fatar 2001, GEM Equinox and ProMega, and maybe just a few others... ;\)
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/19/04 10:29 PM

But I wouldn't want to visit Rome when the Romans are away!! I'd be knocking on the door to the Fazioli factory and it would be locked! Can you imagine my disappointment?

So have you ever played a real Faz 308F or whatever that extraordinary concert grand is called?
Posted by: hermanjoe

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/20/04 02:26 AM

I have been following all the discussion here about amplifiers for keyboards. I was considering a pair of Yamaha 12" monitors for keyboard amplification. I checked out EAW stuff but it's too much cash, and they require a lot of power. You'd need two power amps, one for each speaker. Anyway, I like the monitor setup, it's low profile, looks cool, easy to carry, and easy to hear yourself.

Dave, you mentioned using Yamaha stuff, How do you like it? I think I saw a club monitor for a decent price at daddy's junky music today.
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/20/04 10:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by hermanjoe:
Dave, you mentioned using Yamaha stuff, How do you like it? I think I saw a club monitor for a decent price at daddy's junky music today.
Hi,

I don't remember saying that I used Yamaha. I owned a TX816 and DX-7 years ago but I have never used Yamaha amplification.

If you go with floor monitors, what do you intend to power them with?

Dave
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/20/04 10:54 AM

Goodmorning Dave,

I'll stand in line with another amplification question.

I'm curious about the Flite Sound products. They have a full range 12" keyboard speaker, plus several amplifiers that look easy to carry around. I'm interested. Number one, I'm finally buying into the idea that versatility in a setup is something I'll appreciate down the road, and two, I still believe you can't beat a 3-way speaker for keyboards.

Could you take a look and give me your impressions? Particularly with respect to the amplifiers. I don't want overkill, so I don't necessarily want the biggest and best. Here's my situation: I'm sometimes plugged into the house PA (music theatre, church), or have a vocalist and sax (microphones) (the bass player always wants his own amp), but most often I just need to emulate an ordinary piano with an unmiced acoustic instrument (string or woodwind), in a small to medium sized venue.

Wordy! Thanks.

1.Important omission! I want a system that serves as BOTH personal monitor and PA.)

2. I'm keen on the Bose as well, but I don't have my own personal car to sell!

3. AND \:D how can you tell, by looking at an external amp, that it's not one of those slippery devils that sums your stereo signal to mono? I don't get that.
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/20/04 12:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by gangsu:
Goodmorning Dave,

I'll stand in line with another amplification question.

I'm curious about the Flite Sound products. They have a full range 12" keyboard speaker, plus several amplifiers that look easy to carry around. I'm interested. Number one, I'm finally buying into the idea that versatility in a setup is something I'll appreciate down the road, and two, I still believe you can't beat a 3-way speaker for keyboards.

Could you take a look and give me your impressions? Particularly with respect to the amplifiers. I don't want overkill, so I don't necessarily want the biggest and best. Here's my situation: I'm sometimes plugged into the house PA (music theatre, church), or have a vocalist and sax (microphones) (the bass player always wants his own amp), but most often I just need to emulate an ordinary piano with an unmiced acoustic instrument (string or woodwind), in a small to medium sized venue.

Wordy! Thanks.

1.Important omission! I want a system that serves as BOTH personal monitor and PA.)

2. I'm keen on the Bose as well, but I don't have my own personal car to sell!

3. AND \:D how can you tell, by looking at an external amp, that it's not one of those slippery devils that sums your stereo signal to mono? I don't get that.
Hi Sue,

The Flite cabinets are made of fiberglass which makes them very light but also makes them a bit less durable than their wood counterparts. Our bass player purchased a 15" and mid cabinet from Flite several years ago and it sounds good. The only thing that I noticed is there is a fair amount of cabinet resonance (the cabinet vibrates) which will serve to diminish the bass projection somewhat. This is probably not an issue with piano sounds at reasonable volumes.

As has been said, it is certainly better to have 2 full range cabinets and a separate stereo mixer and amp than to go with a self contained keyboard amp. The trade-off is more to carry, more expense, more cables. But the sound will be much better. I am still thinking about the Carvin KB1000 as an amp and might consider a pair of the Flite 112MH or 112 MHD.

Here is something that no one has mentioned as of yet as far as I know;

There are short throw and long throw cabinet designs. Short throw would be any of the self contained keyboard amps, or any other speaker cabinets that use a front mounted midrange speaker and front mounted high frequency driver, i.e. the Flite 112MH.

If you are only interested in personal amplification, then front mounted components are the only way to go.

On the other hand, if you expect an audience to hear full range sound you need to go with a horn loaded cabinet, i.e. JBL EON, MACKIE, FBT, LEM, etc. HF horns are not as smooth or pleasant to listen to up close but they are the only way of getting high-mid and high frequencies to an audience.

Of course if you are playing in an intimate setting where the audience is fairly close then the front loaded cabinets would work much better than the horn loaded cabinet.

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: Jeep

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/20/04 12:59 PM

Hi Sue,

As you are discovering, the world of amplification is vast.
Some people make a lifetime study of the concepts
and products related to this field.
There are any number of ways to go about what you are trying to do.

In keeping with our Keyboard Corner spirit of helpfulness,
may I respectfully suggest that you (being a good Canadian sister )
acquaint yourself with the world-class Yorkville Sound - (905) 837-8481 -
http://www.yorkville.com/
and their retail affiliates Long & McQuade,
http://www.longandmcquademusic.com/
both founded and headquartered in Toronto over 35 years ago.

They would be delighted to assist you in your quest for
superior, appropriate, and economical product
in order to fulfill your musical vision.
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/20/04 01:29 PM

Hi Jeep!
You're absolutely right about the Yorkville line. I tend to write Yorkville off, because that's all I see. Well, that and Peavy guitar amps. But truthfully, I'm not up to speed on their product line. I'm a little skeptical that Yorkville will fulfill my musical vision (!?), in fact, I rather enjoy scouring the ends of the earth. But it's true, we forget to look in our own backyards.

I'll be in L&M next week. I've done a fair bit of rental business with them in the past, and enjoy their excellent service. I'll keep an open mind.

Thanks for saying hello!
Sue
Posted by: hermanjoe

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/20/04 01:36 PM

Dave,

Sorry, I thought you said you were using yamaha monitors. Maybe it was someone else. I'll power them with a crown power amp most likley.

Tom
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/20/04 03:44 PM

Hi Dave,

In detailing long vs short throw, you've managed to answer another of my questions which I didn't actually ask. That is, how would I mount a speaker like the Flitesound high enough, to be up at audience ear-level? Well, the fact is, why bother? They wouldn't hear it anyway.

HAH. :p
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/23/04 01:32 PM

Just to follow up, I heard from the folks at JBT that they are in fact an independently owned company. And they have a Canadian Dealership! Intellimix. Just keeping those options open. \:\)

Hermanjoe, one thing I like about those Yamaha club monitors is the way they can be placed on the floor with the woofers facing together. That's one thing about Mackie's and FBT's that kind of bugs me.

So Dave, another basic question. What is meant by "aftertouch" on the PM3? Can you describe how it feels, I mean I should be able to describe it but it just feels like a regular old piano to me!
Posted by: Immo

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/23/04 02:06 PM

I was wondering that for a while myself. I don't know if this answer is all encompassing, but I noticed on some samples, specifically strings and synth, that putting extra pressure on the key after it has already been played induces a very light vibrato. On the brass, it makes it louder. That's all I know about it though.
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/23/04 02:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by gangsu:
So Dave, another basic question. What is meant by "aftertouch" on the PM3? Can you describe how it feels, I mean I should be able to describe it but it just feels like a regular old piano to me!
Quote:
Originally posted by Immordino:
I was wondering that for a while myself. I don't know if this answer is all encompassing, but I noticed on some samples, specifically strings and synth, that putting extra pressure on the key after it has already been played induces a very light vibrato. On the brass, it makes it louder. That's all I know about it though.
Hi Sue. Good Question!

Hi Immordino. Good Answer!

Afterouch is a MIDI controller similar to the modulation wheel in that pitch/timbre/volume etc. can change depending on the position of the controller. In the case of afterouch, the physical control consists of a pressure sensitive strip that runs the length of the keyboard under the keys. There is a separate pressure strip for the white keys and the black keys.

To use Immordino’s example, brass ensemble sounds typically will have the aftertouch routed to amplitude (volume) so that once you play the keys, pressing harder into the keybed will swell the brass sound. Aftertouch should not be confused with velocity. Velocity has to do with how fast you strike a key determining the initial dynamics of a sound. Aftertouch comes into play once a key or keys have been played and are still being held down at which time the player can press harder to gain any additional programmed effects.

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: marino

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/23/04 06:24 PM

For an explanation of aftertouch, check this old thread:

http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=18;t=009138#000000

Just don't consider the first response. \:\)
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/23/04 08:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by marino:
For an explanation of aftertouch, check this old thread:...
Just don't consider the first response. \:\)
oh geez, he's never gonna live that one down. \:D

Lot's of good uses for aftertouch in that thread. Pitch bending! DAVE! Can the pm3 aftertouch be programmed to do pitch-bending?? You never mentioned that. If the answer's YES, but I'd have to learn to read the midi implementation chart, then nevermind.

Well Immordino, you say the brass "gets louder", and Dave you say the brass "swells". And I say, I have to stand up and lean on the keyboard with both hands to get it to do anything. I don't think I'll be using too much aftertouch afterall.

I have to tell you to try the harpsichords with the Tartini Vellotti tuning. It just wonks it out enough to sound really authentic. I love it.

That's all for now. Thanks for another lesson!
Sue
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/23/04 08:40 PM

..forgot I had one more question. The GEM expression pedal. Is it easy to control volume, or does it have a short throw that jumps too quickly? How does it compare to the best Roland pedal out there?

I can see instances of wanting it. 2-handed chords that are tied for 16 bars ending at ffff, having a little control over the constant f-p echoes in baroque music, stuff like that.

thanks again!
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/23/04 09:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by gangsu:
..forgot I had one more question. The GEM expression pedal. Is it easy to control volume, or does it have a short throw that jumps too quickly? How does it compare to the best Roland pedal out there?

I can see instances of wanting it. 2-handed chords that are tied for 16 bars ending at ffff, having a little control over the constant f-p echoes in baroque music, stuff like that.

thanks again!
Hi Sue,

Glad you asked. Not all volume pedals (control voltage pedals to be specific) are created equal. This is not to say that one is better or worse than another. The type and value of the potentiometer in the pedal and the mechanics used to make the potentiometer turn all have to do with how it will react when connected to a keyboard. Manufacturers design their keyboards to work well with the pedals that they also manufacture. For the most part control voltage pedals are interchangeable these days but the response can have drastic differences depending on the brand of pedal and the brand of keyboard.

I have a Roland EV5 control voltage pedal and when connected to my Genesys Pro there is not much of a noticeable change until the pedal is at least halfway forward and then the volume jumps abruptly toward loud. The GEM Pro pedal adjusts the volume smoothly from soft to loud as expected. Again, there is nothing wrong with the EV5, it is just a different design.

Years back I had a Yamaha control voltage pedal and tried to use it with a Roland keyboard and had similarly poor results. So I suggest sticking with a particular brand when going for accessories.

Sorry to be so wordy. \:\)

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/23/04 09:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DaveMcM:
Manufacturers design their keyboards to work well with the pedals that they also manufacture.
I absolutely love it when I get advice that confirms good old common sense. Thanks Dave.

I'll bet you, though, that the GEM dealer in * * did not bother stocking pedals that look like every other pedal out there. I had to pre-pay the 3-pedal unit before they'd actually order it for me.

PS I never tire of listening to you. \:D
Posted by: Tedly Nightshade

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/23/04 11:12 PM

OK, GEM Promega 3 question.

Are all the sounds completely, totally, and with no compromise mono-compatible? Please spare me any BS about how mono can't sound as good as stereo- apologies if you are not prone to such distractions.

One thing I really, really, really value about the Kawai MP9000 is that every last thing sounds just as good in mono as it does in stereo, and HUGE either way.
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/23/04 11:42 PM

We need a MAN'S MAN to get over here and field these questions!
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/24/04 12:10 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Ted Nightshade:
OK, GEM Promega 3 question.

Are all the sounds completely, totally, and with no compromise mono-compatible? Please spare me any BS about how mono can't sound as good as stereo- apologies if you are not prone to such distractions.

One thing I really, really, really value about the Kawai MP9000 is that every last thing sounds just as good in mono as it does in stereo, and HUGE either way.
Hi Ted,

Thanks for your inquiry. BTW, I always flush before visiting the forum and I don’t often run across any bulls, so……….

The answer to your question is no. But before you point a finger and go AhHa let me explain.

Both the Promega 2 and Promega 3 feature a 9’ Steinway concert grand model and a 10’6” Fazioli concert grand model. The sounds are named Stereo Grand 1 and Stereo Grand 2 respectively. As these names imply, they are true stereo sounds. HOWEVER, we also have included true mono versions of these instruments aptly named Grand 1 and Grand 2. If you are running through a mono sound system it is therefore suggested that you use the mono versions to avoid the potential phase cancellation that can occur from playing back stereo sound through a single speaker system.

The other acoustic piano models, i.e. Upright, CP Grand and Honky are mono models. The remaining sounds in the Acoustic Piano section are creating by doing major tweaking to these sounds.

The Vintage section consists of Rhodes, Wurlitzer and Clavinet models as well as other sounds. The original instruments were mono and we saw no reason to change that since we were attempting to re-create the authentic instruments.

A final point has to do with effects. Some of the effects algorithms in the Promega are stereo. The same is true in the Kawai and every other brand of instrument out there that has internal effects processing. If a sound is reliant on a stereo effect as in a Rhodes with stereo tremolo, the sound is going to suffer when played through a mono sound system no matter the brand or model.

So the answer is no. But I hope you understand that this is not a negative. Unlike many of the other brands of digital pianos on the market, we had the forethought to include mono versions on the featured sounds in our instrument.

I hope that answers your question satisfactorily. If not or if something is not clear, please let me know.

Best Regards,

Dave McMahan
Keyboard Product Manager
Generalmusic USA
Posted by: Tedly Nightshade

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/24/04 12:20 PM

Thanks! Sounds like the next best thing anyhow.
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/24/04 12:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Ted Nightshade:
Thanks! Sounds like the next best thing anyhow.
Well sure. Don't mention it. If you have more questions, just ask.

Dave
Posted by: orangefunk

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/24/04 12:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DaveMcM:
Quote:
Originally posted by Ted Nightshade:
Thanks! Sounds like the next best thing anyhow.
Well sure. Don't mention it. If you have more questions, just ask.

Dave
Can I ask where I can download high resolution mp3s of the pianos from?

I've only come across 64kb/s ones so far..

Thanks
Ofunk
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/24/04 01:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by orangefunk:
Can I ask where I can download high resolution mp3s of the pianos from?

I've only come across 64kb/s ones so far..

Thanks
Ofunk[/QB]
Hi,

If you send me your mailing address in a PM I will have a demo CD sent to you. Provided you are in the US.

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: orangefunk

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/24/04 02:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DaveMcM:
Quote:
Originally posted by orangefunk:
Can I ask where I can download high resolution mp3s of the pianos from?

I've only come across 64kb/s ones so far..

Thanks
Ofunk
Hi,

If you send me your mailing address in a PM I will have a demo CD sent to you. Provided you are in the US.

Best Regards,

Dave[/QB]
I'm in the UK \:\(
Posted by: Immo

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/24/04 02:37 PM

I've got the CD, I could try to FLAK (or is it FLAC?) them, but I don't have a way to host them. Do you have an e-mail address or something that could handle some large files?
Posted by: orangefunk

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/24/04 02:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Immordino:
I've got the CD, I could try to FLAK (or is it FLAC?) them, but I don't have a way to host them. Do you have an e-mail address or something that could handle some large files?
Hey thanks! Even 192 kb/s sounds would be fine..

my email address at uni should be fine

it is

loughran at comp dot lancs dot ac dot uk

Much appreciated!
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/24/04 05:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by orangefunk:
I'm in the UK \:\( [/QB]
Have you contacted Synergy Distribution? http://www.synergydistribution.co.uk/index2.htm

They should have the original files on CD that they could get to you. The demos on their site are from the CD I am referring too.

Best Regards,

Dave

Immordino, thanks for your offer to help.
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/24/04 08:19 PM

Hi Dave,

Tell me about the line drivers in the PM3. Have they got enough ..drive?....to omit the Direct Box thing?

Picture 10-25' cables running to active PA speakers like the FBT's.
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/24/04 08:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by gangsu:
Hi Dave,

Tell me about the line drivers in the PM3. Have they got enough ..drive?....to omit the Direct Box thing?

Picture 10-25' cables running to active PA speakers like the FBT's.
Hi Sue,

This is your lucky day. The Promega 3 has balanced outputs so you don't need a direct box at all. You do need the correct cables however. As you know, the output jacks on the Promega 3 are 1/4" female jacks. What you didn't know is that these can not only accept the normal 2 conductor instrument (guitar type) cable but also can accept a 3 conductor tip-ring-sleeve (TRS) 1/4" male connector and plug directly into a balanced input via a male XLR (microphone) type connector.

You can find a male TRS to male XLR cable at your friendly local music store. Remember to buy 2 for stereo.

You’re welcome! \:\)

Dave
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/24/04 09:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DaveMcM:
This is your lucky day. ...3 conductor tip-ring-sleeve (TRS) 1/4" male connector and plug directly into a balanced input via a male XLR (microphone) type connector.
I do feel lucky. Thanks! I'm going to be ordering my cables from Markertek since my local music store is friendly but a little short on supply. I might actually end up learning the soldering technique since I think 10' is a little short, but 25' could be asking for trouble. No sizes in between.

Enough writing for one day, do you think? Talk later.

Sue
Posted by: Tedly Nightshade

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/25/04 02:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DaveMcM:
Quote:
Originally posted by gangsu:
Hi Dave,

Tell me about the line drivers in the PM3. Have they got enough ..drive?....to omit the Direct Box thing?

Picture 10-25' cables running to active PA speakers like the FBT's.
Hi Sue,

This is your lucky day. The Promega 3 has balanced outputs so you don't need a direct box at all. You do need the correct cables however. As you know, the output jacks on the Promega 3 are 1/4" female jacks. What you didn't know is that these can not only accept the normal 2 conductor instrument (guitar type) cable but also can accept a 3 conductor tip-ring-sleeve (TRS) 1/4" male connector and plug directly into a balanced input via a male XLR (microphone) type connector.

You can find a male TRS to male XLR cable at your friendly local music store. Remember to buy 2 for stereo.

You’re welcome! \:\)

Dave
Hi Dave. Keyboard "balanced" outs are notorious for not really being balanced. My Kawai MP9000 is a good example. Does the Promega 3 have real honest to god iron output transformers? Or is it one of these "electronically balanced" outputs, and you notice they never make "electronically balanced" direct boxes? Also, when you use it unbalanced, does your poor innocent signal have to go through the "electronically balanced" components, or is it allowed the dignity of a simple short honest unbalanced path?

BTW I'm gonna want one of these Demo CD's! I'd like to play the thing back through great converters and great monitors and really give it a chance. Actually I want to play it, and will, but it's a couple hundred miles to Piano Liquidators so it would be very nice to hear the CD. I'll PM you my address.

I must say I'm very skeptical about this piano simulation business but I have been reading rave after rave over at Harmony Central. BTW, can I control the "piano" from my Kawai MP9000? At least one poster at HC was dreaming of the combo of MP9000 keyboard with Promega 3 piano sounds...

BTW, if this turns out not to be a wild goose chase and we really have the life-transforming and unprecedented development of a fake piano we can really use with an acoustic ensemble with satisfaction, I would like to send you a bottle of fine local Applegate wine, if you are into such things.
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/25/04 04:56 PM

Hi Ted,

Quote:
originally posted by Ted Nightshade:
Hi Dave. Keyboard "balanced" outs are notorious for not really being balanced
The outputs are electronically balanced just like most other products coming out today. Using a direct box not only balances the signal for longer cable runs, but the DI will also step the signal down to mic level so that a balanced mic input of a mixer will not be overloaded.

As far as I know when using standard 2 conductor ¼” jacks, the balancing circuitry is not involved. I suppose the smartest thing is to use a good DI. Then there is no question.

Quote:
BTW I'm gonna want one of these Demo CD's! I'd like to play the thing back through great converters and great monitors and really give it a chance. Actually I want to play it, and will, but it's a couple hundred miles to Piano Liquidators so it would be very nice to hear the CD. I'll PM you my address.
I will be happy to send you a demo CD. I’ll look for your PM.

Quote:
I must say I'm very skeptical about this piano simulation business but I have been reading rave after rave over at Harmony Central.
I understand your skepticism. Nothing is like the real thing. One reason this is true regarding an acoustic piano is that word ‘acoustic’. The sound is emanating from many different points on a real piano. The digital piano has the unfortunate situation of having its sound emanate from one central location (or 2 in stereo). A fair comparison would be to listen to a real acoustic piano miked up in an isolated room and hear the result through speakers. Then have the same player play on the Promega through the same amplification. This has been done several times and people who would really couldn't tell the difference.

Quote:
BTW, can I control the "piano" from my Kawai MP9000?
Sure.

Quote:
BTW, if this turns out not to be a wild goose chase and we really have the life-transforming and unprecedented development of a fake piano we can really use with an acoustic ensemble with satisfaction, I would like to send you a bottle of fine local Applegate wine, if you are into such things.
Let’s see, how can I put this? Heck yeah! Thanks.

Back to this balanced thing. I am not an expert on this subject by any means. Hopefully someone with more experience in balanced systems and the differences in DI boxes will offer some insight.

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: MikeT156

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/25/04 05:23 PM

This Thread is getting to be a GEM commercial. DaveMcM....its one thing to deliver information, like the Yamaha folks do, but it's starting to sound a bit too much like "selling" to me. One of the things that ruined Sweetwater's Forum is TOO MANY SALESMEN that worked for Sweetwater doing their selling on the Forum. Lighten up. \:o

Mike T.
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/25/04 05:45 PM

uh-oh, making the folks nervous, Dave? Perhaps the world just ain't ready.

I had never thought of micing an acoustic and comparing it through speakers to a digital using the same speakers. Mais oui! That would be the only fair comparison test.

Going back for a second though to the balanced outputs. The promega is "made" to accept 3 way (whatever) real honest to goodness TRS plugs (plugs? you know what I mean), as opposed to those cheatin guitar "plugs". ?? yes?

Mike t. Let's just remember for a second, that there are 4 or 5 gem users on this entire forum. Three of us are new to the instrument. Another is the strong silent type and we hardly hear from him, and the last one seems to have disappeared. How great it is, for me personally, to have contact with someone who really knows the product. Thanks again and again dave. Your expertise is invaluable.

of course, you may be just pulling my chain Mike T. - - in which case I probably deserve it. ;\)

sue
Posted by: MikeT156

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/25/04 05:49 PM

Sue:

I'm not pulling your chain. Maybe you guys should go the PM route. DaveMcM is doing some hard selling IMO.

Mike T.
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/25/04 05:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by MikeT156:
This Thread is getting to be a GEM commercial. DaveMcM....its one thing to deliver information, like the Yamaha folks do, but it's starting to sound a bit too much like "selling" to me. One of the things that ruined Sweetwater's Forum is TOO MANY SALESMEN that worked for Sweetwater doing their selling on the Forum. Lighten up. \:o

Mike T.
Hi Mike,

Sorry you feel that way. And sorry that you decided to make your first post here (post#352) a negative one toward me. As has been pointed out in another thread that I am sure you are familiar with, I am not here to sell product. Enough Said!

As for this particular thread, I have answered the questions that have been posted, that is all. Any enthusiasm that comes through in my answers is purely from my feelings towards the instruments and not because I work for GEM. This is absolutely the truth. No BS!

I agree that these forums are designed to share information between users and not to be used as a means of advertising products, at least by manufacturer representatives. I suppose no one has a problem when a regular forum member wants to plug a particular brand or model that he or she likes.

Seriously, please tell me why you posted this message. Do it in a PM if you like. I don't see any problems with the exchange of information in this particular thread. If I have offended you personally in some way, I would like to know.

Sincerely,

Dave McMahan
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/25/04 05:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by MikeT156:
Sue:

I'm not pulling your chain. Maybe you guys should go the PM route. DaveMcM is doing some hard selling IMO.

Mike T.
you could simply choose not to browse the Promega3 thread if you find it offensive.
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/25/04 06:50 PM

For my gig rig using speakers, which can be a long ways away, I will buy balanced TRS male (keyboard end) to XLR male for the balanced input of the powered speaker. Balanced cables cut down on noise and interference. If I need to plug in to an amp of some kind, I'll just use a shielded instrument (guitar) cable. If I'm using a house PA, the sound people will thank me for using the balanced cable because they won't have to go find me a direct box.

That's my final take.

Sue
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/25/04 07:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by gangsu:
For my gig rig using speakers, which can be a long ways away, I will buy balanced TRS male (keyboard end) to XLR male for the balanced input of the powered speaker. Balanced cables cut down on noise and interference. If I need to plug in to an amp of some kind, I'll just use a shielded instrument (guitar) cable. If I'm using a house PA, the sound people will thank me for using the balanced cable because they won't have to go find me a direct box.

That's my final take.

Sue
Hi Sue,

That should work. One thing though, Ted was making a good point about the DI box. Using a DI box not only balances the signal, but it also adjusts the impedance to that of a mic level input which is what a mixer is going to want to see. So the sound engineers are still going to have dig into their tool boxes and pull out a couple of DI's.

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: MikeT156

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/25/04 07:32 PM

Reply to DaveMcM and Sue:

Dave, the reason I posted what I did is that's what I think, you're soliciting business. Asking for someone's address and volunteering to send a CD demo is soliciting. If someone ASKS you for a demo, that's fine. You're providing good information on your product line and on others. I just don't want manf. reps actively "work" user forums. I don't know if Dave Bryce said anything to you about it or not. I can tell you that when I first joined this site, I was telling people to shop at a certain dealer and giving selling prices I was getting and he politely asked me to knock it off, and I did. He explained the nature of the forum and I respected his wishes.

DAve, I realize you have some folks on this thread that want more info on GEM and are asking a lot of questions so that puts you in a catch 22. I'm suggesting "walk softly". I also don't mean to be offensive Dave, it'ss just my opinion.

I really don't have a problem with a manufacturer that believes in his product, it's method I'm concerned with. Dave and Sue, don't misread me, I'm not trying to come down hard on you, I just don't want the Forum to go all to hell because manufacturers start using it for a sales tool.

Cheers, \:\)

Mike T.
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/25/04 08:38 PM

Hi Mike,

The reason I offered to have a CD sent was because this person was asking for an mp3 of a higher resolution than what he was finding on the net. I figured if he really wanted to get a good idea of the sound, he may as well have the full CD in order to evaluate the instrument. It was not a tactic to get a customer's address. That thought never entered my mind and we don't do mailing lists so there would be no other purpose to have his address other than to send him the demo CD.

While I visit this and other forums throughout the day, it is not to "work" the crowd. My main concern is that those who have questions regarding our products get the best answers possible. I sincerely don't mean to come off as "Joe Salesman". That is so far from the truth of how I really am it's silly. My enthusiasm for the products is genuine and I really do enjoy helping people who are interested in knowing more about them. If that comes off as being a pushy salesman, then I gratefully accept the criticism. I will try to hold back and measure my words more closely. I appreciate comments both good and bad as long as they have foundation in truth.

Finally, I also wouldn't want this and other forums go to the dogs as it were. It is incredible that folks from all over the world can share experiences and opinions about their likes and dislikes of the products they use. And the people who host forums like this are to be commended.

So let's get back to the fun and put all of this behind us, shall we? \:\)

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: Immo

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/25/04 08:44 PM

I'm not the strong silent type am I?

Seriously though, most of this forum is Sue and Dave bantering back and forth (as I read and try to catch up with both of them in knowledge of my instrument). That's hardly selling.

The CD offer was in direct response to someone's request for higher quality samples than are available on GEM's website (asking for a demo). If Dave didn't help the guy I would've thought him rude. But instead he reminded us why he's the National Product Manager.

Now I'm just having fun (like I wasn't before), but I felt like pulling and posting at the bottom the definition of soliciting from dictionary.com (which I know from my short stint in sales soliciting is different from peddling in that Dave doesn't carry around a bunch of Promegas under his arm).

OK I think we can just throw out definition three and four flat out. If you want to debate that though, it could make for some fun meaningless banter.

OK, definition one, I don't think that Dave has succumbed to talking about the Promega's richly superp richness, that richly embelishes the acoustic resonance of the harmonic overtonage of the incredible piano sampling/modeling that is only enhanced by the superior DRAKE engine built into the engineering of the massive beast, not to mention the elegance of the realism of the FADE algorithm built into...[hours later]...to sum it all up, it sounds great.

OK where was I going with this?

On definition two, I do take some offence from the time Dave PMed me and asked me for donations, I think it was for his golf fund (he mentioned wanting a gold jacket), but that wasn't on this forum anyway, so that doesn't count. Petition persistently, I'll have to talk to my company's lawyer about the particular legalese of that one. What does petition mean? Why is there air? To be or not to be? Quid pro quo...uhhh...I can't remember any other latin intelligent sounding words.

So all that to say, Dave's definitly been adding extra service to the instrument and has been incredibly helpful in answering questions. Some might say that service is selling, but that's their perogitive. Hey there's a reason I'm not the moderator. I hope we don't have to take up this thread elsewhere.

By the way anyone that can't tell, this post should be read using the 90% BS rule.

v. tr.
1. To seek to obtain by persuasion, entreaty, or formal application: a candidate who solicited votes among the factory workers.
2. To petition persistently; importune: solicited the neighbors for donations.
3. To entice or incite to evil or illegal action.
4. To approach or accost (a person) with an offer of sexual services.
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/25/04 09:57 PM

hahahha OMG Immordino. Good post.

MIKE T, you're just going to have to get used to it. You can't sell me on any other keyboard. On another thread, you suggested that digitals were the compromise that kept you going until you could afford the real thing. This is my real thing. I've ARRIVED. Yahoo!

thanks immordino, I'm picturing our dave in a gold jacket...frigg.. \:D

OT, I just hope steadyb's pulling our leg, because truthfully, if he's not coming back, the fun factor on this forum is severely compromised.

Sincerely,
wantpromega3 then, wantpromega3 now.
Posted by: clawback

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/25/04 10:32 PM

Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/25/04 10:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by drawback:
Good point. \:\)

BTW Immordino, I don't play golf. Must've been some other Dave. But thanks for the thought anyway.
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/25/04 10:40 PM

looks like it was my turn to get a rise out of you, drawback ;\)
Posted by: Immo

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/25/04 10:46 PM

Uh oh, I better figure out fast who I gave my bank account number to then. They were also talking about getting money out of their communist country and giving me a cut. Now that we know it's not the real Dave, I can say this, because this may have broken definition 3 of soliciting.
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/25/04 11:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DaveMcM:
Using a DI box not only balances the signal, but it also adjusts the impedance to that of a mic level input which is what a mixer is going to want to see.
The signal is balanced. And a mixer is going to want to see the same thing that the powered speaker will want to see. (Come on over and live in my world for a while, it's a much nicer place)

Quote:
So the sound engineers are still going to have dig into their tool boxes and pull out ..
I'll just turn my head \:o
Posted by: c4

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/26/04 12:15 AM

sounds like someone is suffering from gear envy..

Quote:
Originally posted by MikeT156:
Sue:

I'm not pulling your chain. Maybe you guys should go the PM route. DaveMcM is doing some hard selling IMO.

Mike T.
Posted by: Tedly Nightshade

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/26/04 12:56 AM

BTW I did solicit that solicitation- I asked for a CD when I heard they existed.

I have never heard a piano sample that managed to sound like a recording of a piano. That would do, if it was a great recording of the right piano! We'll see. All I'm after is 1)willing suspension of disbelief, which is something I haven't managed so far with others and 2)feels good to the player. Basically we will be able to tell if it's something we're going to be able to do our thing with!

I agree the point-source and directionality issues are major ones. I am trying to come up with a solution similar to the Bose PAS but simpler and better and with a tube amp. Wish me luck!
Posted by: MikeT156

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/26/04 01:35 AM

Note to Dave McM: Thanks for your gracious reply. If I misread you, I apologize. I think we're on the same page. We want this forum to be open for information for everyone's benefit. Check out Sweetwater's forum, and you can see how that forum went down hill because of sales reps selling on the forum. Its imperative for sales reps to remain objective, while bringing the quality, features and benefits of their product line to the foreground.

Sue, you have to keep the application of an instrument in mind, as well as practicality. 99.9% of us can't haul around a concert grand to gigs. We can't afford it, and they were never intended for that use. They are best left in a room where they can adjust to the temperature and relative humidity so they can stay in tune for a longer period of time, and not get trashed from being moved. It's not only an instrument, it's a piece of furniture. Want to destroy a grand piano? Move it around for a few years and see what happens to it. Sue, as far as the "real thing"....you know that it's more practical to use an electronic instrument to move around for gigs. It stays in tune, it can transpose at the push of a button, has numerous samples, and was made to be portable. Is it the "same" as a grand piano? No. But a grand piano is not capable of doing what a good quality electronic instrument can do either. It's a piano, not a Hammond B3. Using those instruments for what they're designed for is what I'm talking about.

I'm putting together a portable keyboard rig with the best electronic instruments I can afford that will weather being hauled around and still sound good. I will continue to confine the instruments that are too valuable to me to risk being moved around to my music room. Why? Because they can't be replaced.

And no, its not a case of rnvy. I bought a Yamaha ES8 a month ago, an Alesis Ion today for my portable rig. More to follow. I will keep my Rhodes, Prophet 5, Moogs, and Arp keyboards at home where they can to be appreciated and played another day. Parts are getting to be a problem, and I want them to be in working condition so I can play and enjoy them when I want too. By the way, The Yamaha ES8 is so much better at a lot of things than any of the other keyboards I own are. Does it sound as the same as my Moog? No, but the ES8 can do a lot of things the Moog can't do.

If you don't see the difference and if you want to keep bad mouthing electronic instruments, go ahead. How many people on this forum don't own any of those instruments? How many of those financially fortunate that own a grand piano never wish that they had something "better"? Sue, you said yourself that what you bought was a poor man's piano for what you really wanted, so you compromised too. You bought what you could afford, as I did.

Just because I got on Dave's case for being too agressive doesn't make me the bad guy. If you want to throw stones at me for categorizing what instruments were designed for, go ahead. I will continue to use what I have and appreciate it for what it is.

Enough said. This is just getting to be a pissing contest.

Not so cheery,

Mike T.
Posted by: clawback

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/26/04 02:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by gangsu:
MIKE T, you're just going to have to get used to it. You can't sell me on any other keyboard. On another thread, you suggested that digitals were the compromise that kept you going until you could afford the real thing. This is my real thing. I've ARRIVED. Yahoo!

Sincerely,
wantpromega3 then, wantpromega3 now.
Sue, I guarantee this will come back to haunt you when GEM comes out with Promega 4. And according to my GASometer, I estimate sometime in 2006.

Yours truly,
Binthere Donethat

:rolleyes:
Posted by: Tedly Nightshade

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/26/04 02:38 AM

Not meaning to badmouth electronic instruments, if my comments are the ones you refer to.

But interfacing electronic instruments with real ones, and that does include voice and drums if it's natural and not too processed, is a black art and it takes serious, serious class and subtlety for an electronic instrument to do it. Leslies do it, Hammonds do it, Rhodes do it, analog synths can do it if operated with supreme taste and again class. Take for instance King Crimson with real viola and melltron strings too- and it works! In those hands. Digital stuff? Maybe through tubes and transformers and a leslie doesn't hurt- I'm not having as much luck. MP9000 through all of the above is just about passing, that's class. Just barely. It's hard enough when the instrument being emulated is not an acoustic one- piano is the holiest of grails as far as emulation goes.

Surely there's a need for a portable no-real-piano-fuss piano substitute, but when we can't get the instrument we want do different material or change the arrangement to feature an different instrument in it's style instead. Some things you just gotta have a piano, and those don't get performed enough. Some of them might take to this Promega thing, we'll see, others will just not work without the right acoustic piano. Not just any acoustic piano either, not even any one in good condition and tuning.

Still the things I read about this thing are pretty rave, from a lot of people who mention similar concerns. So we'll see!
Posted by: GEM-PaulD

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/26/04 05:05 AM

qb][/QUOTE]Sue, I guarantee this will come back to haunt you when GEM comes out with Promega 4. And according to my GASometer, I estimate sometime in 2006.
:rolleyes: [/QB][/QUOTE]

There are no plans for a Promega 4 at this time. Most keyboardist are looking for that $599, digial that sounds and plays like a Promega 3 and weights 10lbs, and folds up and fits in your back pocket. ;\) Maybe 2007. ;\)

Regards,
Posted by: MikeT156

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/26/04 10:25 AM

Ted, I wasn't necessarily referring to your posts concerning electronic instruments. But there are people that talk like the options available to us in 2004 is still the same not so good quality gear that was available 25 or 30 years ago. Or at least they critisize the new gear as if it were. Until recently, I hadn't taken the time to check out new gear in a number of years for a variety of reasons. I started looking around for a new electronic piano a few months ago and was pleasantly surprised at what is out there and how little it costs in comparison to the old stuff not that long ago. There are some folks that will just never be satisfied with an electronic version of their instrument. Those folks need to carry around what they're satisfied with and deal with the drawbacks. (Weight, hassle factor, destroy your insturment over time, tuning, etc). Big name acts get the setup they contract for and let the promoter that booked the gig provide it. Smaller name acts have to carry their own gear, but still contract for a grand piano on stage. But the majority of folks are just not in that position, so we get what we afford with a sound we're satisfied with (hopefully) and play it. Not satisfied? Then you need to get something else. It goes on with forum posters here and other sites on a daily basis. It's a major contributor to GAS. Manufacturers must love it.

Ted-you have a nice perspective on blending electronic instruments with acoustic ones. Right on the money about things being "over processed" or to me "obviously synthesized" when you really want an acoustic sound. When that's the case, use "real" instruments when you can afford it or learn to live with synthesized ones. I have a stack of synths, but if that's not what I want to hear for the project I'm involved in, I wouldn't hesitate to get a string quartet into a studio session if I knew damn well that is what it's gonna take to get what I want to hear.

The obvious point in my last post is there is a real need for both acoustic pianos/instruments and electronic ones.

Enjoyed your post Ted. \:\)

Mike T.
Posted by: Immo

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/26/04 11:34 AM

Hey Mike,

Just in case it wasn't absolutely clear, I was just messing around and having a little too much fun. No harm intended. Do me a favor and stick around and poke fun back, will ya?

Also I agree with your postings about gigging vs. home furnature. I love my grandparents' Steinway. Sometimes I feel like playing that and sometimes I feel like playing with my Promega. There a bit of a different feel. It's not practical to gig with their piano, which is part of the reason I got the Promega 3.

Arthur Rubenstein needed a dude to tour with him to maintain his piano full time much like Emo needed what's his dude to keep up his modular. Not going to happen unless people are paying you the big bucks.
Posted by: MikeT156

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/26/04 12:14 PM

Hey Immordinom I got your comic relief drift. I can get pretty testy at times. A friend of mine once told me that I was "almost as difficult to disagree with when I'm wrong as when I'm right". The quality of instruments and how they sound is such a subjective issue. Sometimes, when someone tries to invent a clone, he ends up inventing an entirely different instrument. E.G. The Rhodes.

I'm patiently awaiting the arrival of my Alesis Ion. Should be here tomorrow. My house will be a noisy one this weekend! I'll program some "space" sounds and see if the neighbors call the police and report a UFO this weekend! \:D

Later, \:\)

Mike T.
Posted by: clawback

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/26/04 12:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by drawback:
Sue, I guarantee this will come back to haunt you when GEM comes out with Promega 4. And according to my GASometer, I estimate sometime in 2006.
:rolleyes:


Quote:
replied to by GEM Paul:
There are no plans for a Promega 4 at this time. Most keyboardist are looking for that $599, digial that sounds and plays like a Promega 3 and weights 10lbs, and folds up and fits in your back pocket. ;\) Maybe 2007. ;\)

Precisely what I meant. When your $599 perfect (in 2007's state of the art at least) keyboard comes out, we'll all jump on that bandwagon. Arriving! Yet again! \:D With our PM3's, P250's and RD700's in tow! ;\)
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/26/04 01:12 PM

Hi Drawback, and Mike T,

I think I'm finally starting to understand your impatience with me. You've been buying, selling, looking, and upgrading your electronic equipment, for years. I haven't been down the same road. I'm a pianist. I perform on acoustic pianos. I teach on an acoustic piano. But I also get involved in so many other gigs where a real piano just isn't available. So I rent whatever I can get my hands on.

For the last year or so, I've been helping a friend (with money) research grand pianos. Of course, I've stumbled onto some pretty nice instruments, besides the big names we're all familiar with. There's a fantastic looking Australian piano by Stuart & Sons, you should check it out. I also discovered Estonia! If I hit the jackpot, I'll buy one. I also discovered Fazioli. Stupid me, a year ago, I didn't even know of their existence. I also found a digital piano that uses Fazioli samples, so I was intrigued!

The wheels started turning. I thought, hey, maybe I should look into getting my own digital, now that the kids are grown up and gone, and my expenses arent so great. I'm a versatile pianist, I could really benefit from a versatile keyboard. We're a match.

So, I spent several months researching stage pianos. Decided on GEM for a number of reasons that you don't need to be reminded of.

I'm not even remotely thinking of adding more boards, getting into the kinds of setups that you guys employ. It's a different ballgame.

I hope that gives you a better idea of where I'm coming from. From a classical pianists point of view, it doesn't get any better than the promega. Period. Don't make me take up arms about it.

thanks for the vibrant exchange. \:\)
Sue
Posted by: clawback

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/26/04 01:21 PM

Aw gosh. Now I feel guilty. However, it's just that, as you may know, I am seriously looking into a small grand - and - for the first time in my life as a pianist, I'm believing my next purchase will be permanent. This notion is a very hard thing to wrap my head around.

So excuse me while I play this little mind game with myself, at your expense. Didn't mean to hijack your topic!
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/26/04 01:25 PM

that's ok. ;\) I've hijacked every thread I've jumped into.
Posted by: guestuser@guestuser.com

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/26/04 02:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by gangsu:
So, I spent several months researching stage pianos. Decided on GEM for a number of reasons that you don't need to be reminded of.
Sue
Just out of curiousity, which other ones did you try out?
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/26/04 02:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Anonymous:
Just out of curiousity, which other ones did you try out?
I didn't actually try out any of them.

STONE THE WOMAN NOW!!!!!!
Posted by: MikeT156

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/26/04 03:06 PM

Sue:

Thanks for your post. You're background does give me some insight as to where you're coming from.

If you've had to rent digital KB for portable gigs, my condolences. Quality and maintenance levels of that equipment varies from rental company to rental company, especially US national companies. A lot of the rental people don't know that a Yamaha Motif and a Motif ES are NOT the same instrument. It can be a crap shoot.

Some years ago, my brother was a concert promoter and I was "given" the job of making arrangements to get a good piano tuner for the rental grand, and testing the equipment we rented for big name acts once it was set up by the rental company. I was a pain in their ass, for the most part. One time, one of the acts wanted an Oberheim OBX or better synth and it was written into their contract. The sound company set up the keys and the Oberheim they brought in apparently had been treated roughly by the roadies and it needed to be calibrated. Their "head" roadie tried to tell me "That's the way it's suppose to be". Yeah right. My attitude was "Listen, I own two Oberheim's and calibrate them myself, so don't give me that crap". Basically, it was not usable for the show. I went in and defeated two of the voices so it was playable, but "short" two voices. It still wasn't quite right; one of the other voices was slightly off. I told them "someone dropped this synth". They didn't like it. Not enough time for me to go home and get my gear and calibrate it. So we WOULDN'T pay them for it. \:o I have empathy for the situation your in. Yep, you need to get your own board.

I listened to the GEM Progmega 3 since I last posted and if I were a betting man (and I am, football) it might be what Orangefunk is looking for. The grand 1&2 piano samples are better suited for classical, ballads, and the Jazz Piano (Debussy) is slightly brighter. Very nice mix of samples. Interesting looking piece. For someone that is not going to stack a bunch a other keys on a stand on top of it, the front control panel should make for easy operation. Its fairly expensive, so SHOP it. I see where you can buy direct, but they're not giving it away. GEM doesn't have the market share that Yamaha and Roland have, so beat them up on price. Call ALL the dealers that have them and NEGOTIATE, NEGOTIATE, NEGOTIATE! That's half the fun of buying an instrument!! \:D

Don't worry about having to defend your decision. Buy what you want to hear, what me or anyone else thinks is not important. You're the one that's going to play it as well as PAY for it.

Yep, my long story above can be considered hijacking this thread too! \:D

Cheers, \:\)

Mike T.
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/26/04 03:09 PM

(response to Mr Anon.)

Did the anvil just go down? I haven't got all day here. (kidding!!)

It's very simple, you see. I don't like graded action. I need lots of polyphony. I don't like little tiny LED's that are difficult to see on a stage. I don't like tiny little buttons that have a multitude of functions. I need a soft pedal and a sostenuto pedal (and a variable sustain pedal of course). I don't need built in speakers. I don't need a song library. There's probably more...

are you with me?

Might as well keep going on the same post...

Mike T, another good story!
Wow, I wouldn't have a clue how to fix or tune any of the instruments I've played.

I've had good experience with rentals, lucky me. The music store loans me new equipment, and delivers it to boot. Usually a floor model digital.
Posted by: MikeT156

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/26/04 03:40 PM

Yep, it sounds like the GEM is for you. I can easily see that a classically trained musician could belly up to the Promega. Kudos for choosing a PIANO, rather than a synth that does a lot of other things and has piano samples. You wouldn't be happy with that option.

I like the Yamaha Graded Hammer piano action personally, but I didn't buy one. The COST difference between a P250 an an ES8 wasn't that great, and my main instrument has to wear a lot of hats. The ES8 does NOT have sympathetic string residence, much less a soft pedal. But for what I play, it doesn't matter. The sustain is more accurate on the P250 in terms of emulating a piano. I play the ES8 legato with a minimum amount of pedaling. It doesn't half pedal either. Don't care, when I play piano parts with other instruments in a sequenced song, I DON'T want a lot of resonance. That's the express lane for muddy sequences and losing definition of the individual instruments if you're not careful. Sort of like certain manufacturers that bury their samples with a lot of reverb and other effects to "improve" the sound, IE, make it sound like a grabbled mess. Whenever I demo an instrument, I shut off all the effects and listen to the samples. That's really what you get, minus the decorations.

I know what you mean about small screens. Some of them are hardly readable in a night club environment. I set up the patches and copy them to the "Favorites" section of the ES8 for one button selection during gigs. (Not giggin right now, so that doesn't matter for the time being).

Sue, I assume you're now in the process of shopping the Promega. I DO urge you to exhaust all possible options for pricing with every dealer that's out there. I found as much as a $500.00 difference in price on an ES8 from one dealer to another, and as much as a $400.00 difference in price on the P250. It's your credit card.

Happy hunting. Enjoy the GAS. \:D

Mike T.

P.S. I'm not a "Pianist", I play piano and synth. In the words of Clint Eastwood "A man's got to know his limitations" \:\)
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/26/04 03:51 PM

hi again Mike,

It's all becoming so clear! Dave McM wasn't trying to sell me a promega, I've already got one. And loving it.

I'm a hacker by anybody's standards. Glad to join the club. \:\)
Posted by: MikeT156

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/26/04 03:58 PM

Sue:

Sorry, I thought you were still in shopping mode. Would you mind telling me what you paid for it? Please use PM, don't want to upset DB. Happy to hear you like the Promega. Coming from you, that scores points in my book.

Well, off to PRACTICE Hanon Studies and Bella Bartok Piano Solo. (No chops).

Cheers,

Mike T.
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/26/04 04:05 PM

Thanks for reminding me of Bartok. I picked up Suite op.14 but it's been collecting dust.

I didn't realize posting prices wasn't kosher. But if you don't mind reading, it's alllll on this thread!

Sue
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/26/04 04:44 PM

Hi MikeT,

I enjoyed reading your post.

I am right with you on the backline rental equipment. My band works quit a bit as a backup group for a promoter out of Chicago. He books a lot of oldies shows and we started with him about 8 years or so ago. There is no way that I would consider playing on rented equipment for the reasons you stated. I always bring my own keyboards and even my own monitor rig if I don't know the sound company.

I am very big on trying to duplicate the sounds used on the original recordings of the acts that we perform with. Granted a lot of times that means a nasty sounding upright piano. \:\)

I guess the majority of the audience isn't going to know or care of the 'piano' sound they are hearing is coming from a fancy technologically advanced instrument or an M1 (still a backline favorite "?") But it would appear that at least some of the artists do. We were playing with a group called The Marcells and one particular song had a prominent piano part. I had tweaked the upright piano model to make it as close as possible and really screwed with the EQ and when we got to that song during the show, several of the singers gave me a thumbs up with their eyes. There hands were busy at the time doing all of that dance stuff if you know what I mean.

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: Bartolomeo

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/26/04 05:10 PM

Do the gem 2 and gem 3 have wall warts?

Bartolomeo.
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/26/04 05:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bartolomeo:
Do the gem 2 and gem 3 have wall warts?

Bartolomeo.


NO. Yech! They both use real honest to goodness power cables. Just like a Marshall amp.

Dave
Posted by: guestuser@guestuser.com

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/26/04 07:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by gangsu:
Did the anvil just go down?
Anvil is dropping right now. It's getting closer! You better get out of the wa...

Aw, that's a shame.

\:D

But seriously, though, I don't get the reference - what does it mean, the anvil going down?
Posted by: marino

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/26/04 09:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by gangsu:
Thanks for reminding me of Bartok. I picked up Suite op.14 but it's been collecting dust.

Sue
Hey Sue, do you play the Suite op.14? I've played it in public as a youngster, but I think that nowadays, I wouldn't be able to nail the very fast movement without working on it quite a bit!
Posted by: MikeT156

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/26/04 10:42 PM

Hey Sue:

I went back and read a lot of the previous posts on this thread and found the prices you paid for your Promega 3. Boy, not too shabby! I used the exchange converter and you paid a little over $2200.00 USD for it! I thought it was going to be a lot more expensive. I believe it has a retail of 3500.00 USD. I guess the Promega 2 is even less.

I was reading up a little on the motorized faders and some of the other features on the Promega 3, sweet.

Maybe it is good that I started putting my two cents and my big mouth on this thread after all. I have to admit, I never really took a look at GEM instruments before, much less listened to their media clips. Even OLD dogs can occasionally learn a new trick. \:D

Mike T.
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/27/04 12:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by marino:
Hey Sue, do you play the Suite op.14? I've played it in public as a youngster, but I think that nowadays, I wouldn't be able to nail the very fast movement without working on it quite a bit!
I wouldn't be able to nail it either! I think I'd have to quit my job first. I picked this piece up last year after hearing a recording by Zoltan Kocsis. Loved it. I haven't worked on it, just played through it a couple of times. As if you performed this as a "youngster". Hhaha that's cool.
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/27/04 12:15 AM

Ok Mike I appreciate your enthusiasm, but we have a reputation to uphold here. ;\) So stop jumping around like you're a used car salesman.

I don't know if those prices are still in effect in Toronto. I was given that quote before the boat even left Italy, and the dealer honoured it.

Glad you're liking what you see though. Spread the news!

Sue
Posted by: MikeT156

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/27/04 12:47 AM

Damn Sue, a car salesman? Me? I believe I've been insulted! \:D I was never anti GEM, I never really looked at or listened to anything they have until now. You know what my beef with Dave was about. Now that Dave an me have that out of the way, I thought I'd take a look at what everyone is raving about on this thread, it doesn't cost anything.

I really have no use for another piano or rompler, I just got an ES8 and ordered an ION for a new programmable lead synth, so I'm not in the market anyway. I thought I'd let you guys/girls know that I don't think you're puffing smoke about the Promega. Nice ax. ;\)

Mike T.
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/27/04 12:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by MikeT156:
Nice ax. ;\)
Quote:
Seconded by gangsu:
Nice ax. ;\)
Posted by: Immo

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/27/04 01:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by gangsu:
Quote:
Originally posted by MikeT156:
Nice ax. ;\)
Quote:
Seconded by gangsu:
Nice ax. ;\)
AAaaahhhh youg Jedi. I see you've mastered the art of the quotey dealy. The force is strong with this one...
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/27/04 01:05 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Immordino:
Quote:
Originally posted by gangsu:
Quote:
Originally posted by MikeT156:
Nice ax. ;\)
Quote:
Seconded by gangsu:
Nice ax. ;\)
AAaaahhhh youg Jedi. I see you've mastered the art of the quotey dealy. The force is strong with that one...
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/27/04 01:42 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Anonymous:
- what does it mean, the anvil going down?
sorry Mr Anon, uhmm, well, isn't the anvil the thing the judge brings down?
Posted by: Grave BryceAdministrator

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/27/04 01:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by gangsu:
Quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Anonymous:
- what does it mean, the anvil going down?
sorry Mr Anon, uhmm, well, isn't the anvil the thing the judge brings down?
Gavel. \:\)

dB
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/27/04 01:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Dave Bryce:
Gavel.
what's so funny about that? \:o \:D
Posted by: Grave BryceAdministrator

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/27/04 02:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by gangsu:
what's so funny about that? \:o \:D
Who's laughing?

dB
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/27/04 12:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Dave Bryce:
Who's laughing?
dB, it gets worse \:\(

I've even found myself talking out loud!
Posted by: marino

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/27/04 08:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by gangsu:
As if you performed this as a "youngster". Hhaha that's cool.
I was about 22, if memory serves... does that qualify? \:D
BTW I had a better technique than I have today... \:\(

You have to be patient with my English - I'm self-taught...
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/27/04 10:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by marino:
I was about 22, if memory serves... does that qualify?
I guess 22 could qualify as a youngster...
That would make you about 122 today. \:D
Posted by: MikeT156

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/27/04 10:54 PM

Note to DaveMcM:

I didn't mean to ignore your post about the rental company's equipment you and me mentioned in some of our previous posts. In between the PM we were sending each other, it fell through the cracks.

Interesting that you do some shows with oldies groups with your band. I bet its a hoot! The Marcels? I remember them! Dating myself big time.

Any way, thanks for the help with the parts we discussed. I know now that if theres a way to get your hands on it, you'll find it.

By the way, GEM could use more dealers in the US.
(I'm sure you already know that!)I did a search on the web for prices and see what dealers had your stuff on their site and you could sure use a deal with Sweetwater! The dealers that do have your products are competitive. I thought because of the retail they carry, they would be more expensive. They're right in there price wise for features and sound. \:\)

Regards,

Mike T.
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/28/04 02:27 PM

To record audio using the CD burner on my computer: I need a Y cable with 2 mono male jacks going to 1 stereo 1/8"TRS to plug into my soundcard. Is that all there is to it?
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/28/04 04:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by MikeT156:
Note to DaveMcM:

I didn't mean to ignore your post about the rental company's equipment you and me mentioned in some of our previous posts.

Regards,

Mike T.
Hi Mike,

Don't worry about it. I have been rather busy the past day of so and haven't had much time to visit anyway.

Our band has been doing back-up work for the past 8-9 years. We are not really an oldies band, but it is still lots of fun to meet and share the stage with some of these artists. To see a list of whom we have played with, visit our website http://www.impactband.com and click on the 'References' button.

Sorry that the floppy drive was not for your TS-10. Maybe I'll run across an SD-1 one day that I can get for low $ because it has a faulty DD. \:\)

The lack of a GEM dealer on every corner (or even in every major city) has been a topic of discussion in the past. Actually in certain parts of the US we are covered quite well. Unfortunately there are areas that are severely lacking in dealer coverage. It is something that we are working on quite steadily. We have also added several RSM's to help get things were they should be.

I don't know how much you are familiar with the history of GEM in the US, and I don't want to bore anyone by going into a long dissertation here. But up until 2001, GEM pro gear was distributed by Peavey and the home digital piano line was distributed by Baldwin Piano. We all know what happened to Baldwin Piano. And Peavey was never very successful in the keyboard market even with there own instruments.

So we have been doing some major cleanup for the past several years and now that that is all behind us, we can get on to the task of increasing dealer coverage, dealer/customer support, etc.

Oops, I promised I would keep that short.

Good luck on finding a floppy drive for your TS-10.

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/28/04 04:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by gangsu:
To record audio using the CD burner on my computer: I need a Y cable with 2 mono male jacks going to 1 stereo 1/8"TRS to plug into my soundcard. Is that all there is to it?
Hi Sue,

That should do it. Make sure that you plug into the stereo line input of your soundcard and not the mic input. I am curious what software program you intend to use to record the audio into you PC?

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: MikeT156

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/28/04 04:44 PM

Hey Dave:

Nice web page. Pretty nice song list. Love those Blood Sweat and Tears and Chicage songs! How often do you guys play? Is it more for fun or do actually make a little money to help pay for the HUGE gear list you sent me? \:D

As far as dealer representation, there's a fine line with having "enough" dealers and having "too many". But you're in the business a long time so I'm not saying anything that you knew years ago. From a shopper's perspective, the more dealers the better. I go out and shop to see what the lowest price is and then call the dealer or dealers I want to do business with and beat him up on price! \:D \:D Ultimately, I do want some level of service in case I get something that's damaged or defective. I don't want to wait two months to get a replacement. I like dealing with Sweetwater. They're not going to be the lowest price, but their people and their service is the best in the business. You have to pay for that, but there's a limit. I won't pay MAP pricing, but not many people that know anything will. Pro players that are on the road need Sweetwater even more than a semi pro or hobbiest. I'm not actively playing out anywhere right now, so I don't need things over nighted to me. I can shop price a little more and have more money for more stuff! I also buy from another dealer that consistently has the lowest prices anywhere. There's a trade off.

The Peavey-Baldwin-GEM connection you mentioned refreshes my memory now. Cool. Your company has a different offering than some of the other guys, and there's a market for those keyboards and samples I heard on your site. I'll certainly check you guys out to see what you have if/when I need something down the road. I hope it works for you folks.

Later,

Mike T. ;\)
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/28/04 07:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DaveMcM:
Quote:
Originally posted by gangsu:
To record audio using the CD burner on my computer: I need a Y cable with 2 mono male jacks going to 1 stereo 1/8"TRS to plug into my soundcard. Is that all there is to it?
Hi Sue,

That should do it. Make sure that you plug into the stereo line input of your soundcard and not the mic input. I am curious what software program you intend to use to record the audio into you PC?

Best Regards,

Dave
Hahha Dave, do i smell a trick question?

As it happens, I have a very simple value-packed Sound Blaster Audigy card with so much software bundled into it I can't begin to describe the amazing editing and sequencing and such nonsense it's capable of...

Luckily there's a simple toolbar from which I can select my line-in source to record. I think that should do it.

;\)
Posted by: Tedly Nightshade

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/28/04 10:48 PM

Gotta say the Bladwin-Peavey associations don't really help the image. I'm not sure Piano Liquidators is real upscale either, to judge from the name!

I had to go outside the usual sources to find my beloved Kawai MP9000. I'm not sure too many will look further than the GC, Sweetwater, etc., but I almost always have to, to get the gear I need. I think my Kawai dealer gave us a sweetheart deal so that folks would see our MP9000 around and give it some exposure... these forums help too.

Good luck getting the word out- I still haven't heard it or tried it but I'd be surprised if it wasn't a worthy contender in the field- so much of the usual suspects stuff leaves me cold with their constant influx of new models and their nightmarish interfaces. Good to see some new styles.
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/29/04 01:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Ted Nightshade:
Gotta say the Bladwin-Peavey associations don't really help the image. I'm not sure Piano Liquidators is real upscale either, to judge from the name!
Hi,

At one time Baldwin manufactured very fine instruments. I can't really speak for them any more since Gibson purchased what was left of the company. The Baldwin name added credibility to the Pianovelle line of digital pianos. Pianovelle was the named placed on the digital home pianos manufactured in Italy by Generalmusic for Baldwin. It made a lot of sense for Generalmusic to agree to be the manufacturer of a home digital piano line for Baldwin since there was already a US dealer network, and the Baldwin name of course.

The Peavey thing is something else all together. You have to admit that Hartley Peavey has built a heck of a company from starting out in his father's basement building guitar amps. Back in the late 80's Peavey decided to get into the keyboard business. Might have worked if they had thought to bring on a few folks familiar with keyboards in the early stages. The problem as I see it is not many if any of the reps had any experience with keyboards. Selling a keyboard is a bit different that selling a guitar or a mic clip. Also a good number of Peavey dealers do not deal with higher-end keyboards. I wasn't with GEM at the time that this occurred so I am not sure what the reasoning was.

The good thing is now we are on our own. No third party involved. We are GEM. We don't have any other agenda or other lines to sell and support. So all of our focus is on the task at hand. To bring the knowledge level of GEM products up to where it should be here in the US.

OK. Enough of the Ra Ra stuff. Thanks for listening. \:\)

Oh, by the way, Piano Liquidators is a normal store. It is an interesting name choice. But they do a great job with our instruments. I am visiting there next week as a matter of fact to do some product training and a few shows for the store. The idea of the name is they help some of the acoustic piano manufacturers liquidate "B" stock items from their inventory. ("B" stock units typically have small blemishes in the finish but are mechanically sound) The store purchases "B" stock items from the manufacturers for reduced pricing and passes the savings on to the customer. And yes, they make a point of showing the customer what flaw the instrument has. I have seen them do this.

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: MikeT156

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/29/04 01:18 AM

Dave, its unfortunate that a lot of companies are known for a particular line of products and struggle with other things. Peavey has wide acceptance in the country music arena and have always targeted lower priced products for the masses. Trying to get people to look at higher end products for a different type of customer would be a challenge.

I would think that the name Piano Liquidators doesn't exactly make you think high end, so to speak. I've never seen any of their places so the name image is all I'm going on.

Later,

Mike T.
Posted by: Tedly Nightshade

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/29/04 01:58 AM

Hi Dave,

when exactly are you going to be at Piano Liquidators? Probably I'm too busy next week but the suspense is killing me and it's kind of a big coincidence that you will be there. Could be meant to be. Worth an ask anyway- maybe everything will cosmically align and I can get a red carpet tour of the thing as it were. Assuming they still have one in stock there?

BTW I blemish all my instruments quite promptly (and what a relief it is) so I can appreciate that kind of place.
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/29/04 11:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by MikeT156:
Peavey has wide acceptance in the country music arena and have always targeted lower priced products for the masses.

I would think that the name Piano Liquidators doesn't exactly make you think high end
Later,

Mike T.
Hi Mike,

I hope I didn't sound like I was down on Peavey. Far from it. I really have a lot of respect for the Peavey company. It is an incredible operation they have down in Meridian, Mississippi. I have been there 3 times during my retail days.

The name Piano liquidators is not supposed to sound high-end. Exactly the opposite. The piano retail world is very interesting. People are pulled in to college sales, armory sales and other "special, one time offer, lowest prices ever, just bought out another dealer, blah blah blah. Naming the store as the owner has done pulls those looking for a deal to his store. The cool thing is the deals are real consisting of scratch and dent items where the customer can save money. It makes sense really. And like I said, they do a great job for us. FYI, the GEM products are not "B" stock, only "A" stock.

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/29/04 11:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Ted Nightshade:
[QB]Hi Dave,

when exactly are you going to be at Piano Liquidators?QB]
Hi Ted,

I will be arriving at PDX early afternoon on Friday September 3rd. I will be staying is Salem since that is where the State Fair is held. Did I mention that I am going there to be on hand to demonstrate GEM products at the Oregon State Fair? YeeHaa! I will be leaving on Tuesday morning.

If there is any time that you could visit the Eugene store, let me know and I will arrange to meet you. You are certainly welcome to come to the fair but that obviously isn't the best environment to demo a piano. Beef jerky or funnel cakes on the other hand..... \:\)

Let me know if you can make it so I can arrange to be at the store.

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: hermanjoe

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/29/04 03:35 PM

Hey Everyone,

I justed wanted to let anyone who is looking for a case for their promega in on some products. I ordered a custom made lightweight ATA style case from keyboardcase.com and I am going to get it tomarrow. I will let everyone know how it works out. The prices are good, and I hear the quality is very good. I'll let you know.

Tom
Posted by: Tedly Nightshade

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/29/04 03:45 PM

Hi Dave,

still finding out how the week and coming weekend are shaping up, but I'd love to make this happen.

Now this is a really wild hair, but we do often make guerilla acoustic appearances (mostly acoustic guitar, vox, vibraphone) at fairs and festivals and usually sneak in on the coattails of one of our vendor friends. So the possibility of trying the Promega 3 in a brief live performance at your booth at the fair does come to mind... What would rock would be if a stand that can support it at 34.5" to 36" height could be available so my talented partner in crime could play the "piano" and vibraphone at once as she is accustomed to.

Just a wild hair! But sometimes those are the very most fun- we tend to do better pulling off crazy stunts at the last minute than things planned months in advance. And hey if there were a couple free admissions in it... ;\) \:D

Shameless aren't we?

I'll do whatever I can to hook up with you one way or the other while you're in OR.
Posted by: MikeT156

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/29/04 04:02 PM

HermanJoe:

I tried to go to keyboardcase.com and it wouldn't come up. Is that the correct URL or am I totally brain dead?

Mike T.
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/29/04 05:04 PM

http://www.keyboardcases.com
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/29/04 05:40 PM

no I wasn't suggesting you're totally brain dead. \:D sheesh
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/29/04 05:41 PM

well...
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/29/04 05:42 PM

Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/29/04 05:46 PM

this is what happens when I breathe deeply and think happy thoughts!

\:\)
Posted by: MikeT156

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/29/04 06:13 PM

Sue:

I addressed the brain dead comment to HermanJoe. And the address he put in his post was singluar, not plural. Lighten up.

Mike T.
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/29/04 06:25 PM

Hi Mike. I know that, and I know that too, and the fact of the matter is, I'm probably just a little too light already.

Not to worry. I'm back to work tomorrow so you'll be seeing a lot less of me.

And you do know I was just kidding, right?

bye. \:\)
Posted by: MikeT156

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/29/04 06:55 PM

Sue, actually I thought you were upset with me again. Not to worry, its not like its never happened to me before. Pushy, obnoxious, price shopping Amercians, you know. \:D

I got a job interview with a LOCAL music store tomorrow. Isn't that a gas?

Mike T.
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/30/04 10:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by MikeT156:
I got a job interview with a LOCAL music store tomorrow.

Mike T.
Hey Mike,

Good luck with the interview! Let us know how it turns out.

Dave
Posted by: hermanjoe

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/30/04 01:05 PM

Quote:
HermanJoe:

I tried to go to keyboardcase.com and it wouldn't come up. Is that the correct URL or am I totally brain dead?

Mike T.
Sorry Mike,

Yes keyboardcases.com
I'll have it in a few hours. I ordered the lightweight ATA. They customize each case to the board exactly. I have had problems with boards shifting in generic cases, so this will be great.

Tom
Posted by: MikeT156

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/30/04 04:35 PM

HermanJoe:

I checked out that site, not too shabby! Do you know of a place where I can get a decent quality rack case without going the anvil route?

Mike T.
Posted by: hermanjoe

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 08/30/04 05:24 PM

I actually bought an SKB rack case that was lightweight and it's been very durable. It has wheels and a handle. I think I bought it for about $80.
Posted by: hermanjoe

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 09/23/04 06:02 PM

Any Promega users have advice on getting the best sound out of the instrument in a live setting?

I have noticed my Piano and rhodes sounds just don't have the presence they do through the headphones and the sound quality isnt that fantastic. I am running through a behringer mixer(soon to be replaced) to a crown power amp then to an ev "15 cab with a horn. As far as I know my horn is not blown because my other board (Korg Karma) still sounds the same through it. I had better rhodes sounds live when I used my Roland A-90. Maybe its an EQ thing. The promega has a monster eq on it. Any advice would be great.

Thanks.
Posted by: MikeT156

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 09/23/04 06:42 PM

Tom:

Did you buy a Promega recently?

Mike T.
Posted by: hermanjoe

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 09/23/04 07:11 PM

Quote:
Tom:

Did you buy a Promega recently?

Mike T.
Yes I bought it in May. I replaced my roland A-90 with the Promega, although I still have my A-90. I use the Promega every week for gigs but haven't gotten the magic sound live yet.
Posted by: Immo

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 09/23/04 07:16 PM

Can you describe what you mean by presence (probably not, it's the kind of word that just is or isn't), and what sound you're currently getting live?
Posted by: Immo

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 09/23/04 07:18 PM

By the way, how did you like you lite flight case? I got one myself from a different company and have had a miserable time with it (built to wrong specs (twice, once too small now slightly large), foam ripping, wheel falling off...).
Posted by: MatheMusic

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 09/23/04 07:52 PM

Hi. I'm a newbie to any of these forums. I bought a Promega 2 in June of 2003, and am very happy with it. When researching new keyboards in the spring of that year, I whittled the choice down to the Yamaha S-90 and the Promega 2. There was just something about the Promega that helped me play more "pianistically" than the Yamaha, although that is a dynamite keyboard itself. My previous keyboards include: Yamaha CP70B, DX7, and Kurzweil PC88 (there are others). I augment my sound needs with an Apple TiBook running Logic Pro and Reason.

my answer to question about performance amps: I perform in three bands with different acoustic "spaces". In the first, which runs two acoustic guitars through the PA, I use two very small Crate amplifiers, the left one a bass amplifier, and the right one a keyboard amplifier. Very nice low-volume "presence", easy transport, stereo. In the blues band, where I mainly want the swirling Leslie effect from Logic's EVB3, I use two JBL Eon 15 G2's EQed identically. Promega's organ sounds are just plain inadequate. But double up the EVB3 and the great Promega piano sounds -- man, it sounds great! In the hard rock band, I run stereo through the PA, and just monitor with one of the JBLs.

My situation and question: I am on hiatus from performance for a month or so, and am finally trying to get the Promega 2 integrated into my Logic-based sequencing/recording setup. I am well-versed with using the Promega as a controller in performance and as a controller for other sound sources, the three zones and so forth. However, for the life of me I can't figure out how to get Logic to address the three zones as sound sources! 1) it will only switch performances from the "common channel" 2) it will only accept MIDI signals on the section that I have set to MIDI channel = 1. I have been working for two days to create a "Logic environment" for the Promega 2, and I am stymied. I don't have any trouble at all using my Kurzweil as both a controller and sound source. Can anybody help?

Thanks very much,
JMichael
Posted by: MikeT156

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 09/23/04 08:38 PM

JMichael:

Send a PM to DaveMcM, he's our resident GEM rep and I'm sure he will be glad to help you out.

Mike T.
Posted by: hermanjoe

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 09/23/04 09:56 PM

Quote:
By the way, how did you like you lite flight case? I got one myself from a different company and have had a miserable time with it (built to wrong specs (twice, once too small now slightly large), foam ripping, wheel falling off...).
So far so good. The case seems to be holding up just fine. The thing is its really lite and so its gonna give a little bit, but the foam is just as thick as on a full blown ATA. My Promega 3 in a full blown case would weigh well over 100lbs. My case is very light and easy to move around, but it still protects the gear. The guys who made the case are near me so if something happens they can fix it for me. The guys in my band really like it as well.
Posted by: hermanjoe

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 09/23/04 10:05 PM

Quote:
Can you describe what you mean by presence (probably not, it's the kind of word that just is or isn't), and what sound you're currently getting live?
The sound is kind of "middle frequency" heavy and seems to cut out at certain places a few ocatves above Middle C. Just an uneven sound in general. Not the high quality sound I get in the headphones.
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 09/23/04 11:48 PM

To MatheMusic and hermanjoe,

Hi guys. I am on my way to Dallas, TX at the moment and had a couple of minutes between flights to check my e-mails, forum posts, etc.

Please give me a day or three to get back to you on your questions.

Thanks,

Dave
Posted by: capnzoot

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 09/24/04 06:59 PM

Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 09/25/04 12:06 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by capnzoot:
Check with Gansu for the "setting up your promega without cheesing you off" document. She'll pay it forward for you.
I'd be honoured for sure.
Posted by: hermanjoe

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 09/29/04 12:28 PM

Quote:
Any Promega users have advice on getting the best sound out of the instrument in a live setting?

I have noticed my Piano and rhodes sounds just don't have the presence they do through the headphones and the sound quality isnt that fantastic. I am running through a behringer mixer(soon to be replaced) to a crown power amp then to an ev "15 cab with a horn. As far as I know my horn is not blown because my other board (Korg Karma) still sounds the same through it. I had better rhodes sounds live when I used my Roland A-90. Maybe its an EQ thing. The promega has a monster eq on it. Any advice would be great.

Thanks.
Any advice from the masters?
Posted by: c4

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 09/29/04 09:43 PM

Quality DIs to the board plus in ear monitors would probably be the best route imo.
Posted by: capnzoot

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 09/29/04 11:45 PM

The ProMega actually sounds pretty much like the "real" thing, so you have to approach the fidelity for live the same way you would with an actual instrument, as opposed to the over brite pre-produced normalized samples in a wave ROM device. The second issue is using a 2-way live box in the median range like EV, Peavey, etc. A two way live box without compensation EQ usually has a hole where you need to hear piano (mids). This is the same problem with a lot of keyboard amps. All bottom and top. So go to your Behringer and find the Mid EQ, usually ceneterd around 2.5 and crank it up some. Also on the PM3 find the top 4 EQ bands and bump them up. Careful with the 1k because it puts some pretty unusable "snot" or nasal content into the sound. Another alternative is to get a decent 31 band EQ and compressor, and dial in your piano part of the rig. Another alternative is not to dump your mixer or amp, but investigate some 3 way cabs like Cerwin Vega PS series, or do what a lot of live pro keyboard players do and use 2x10 or 4x10 bass cabs with tweets because they deliver the bottom, solid mids and no overkill on the high end. The best standalone keyboard amp I ever used live was a Peavey 210 bass amp, no kidding. It still pretty much sucked, but it kicked every keyboard amp I ever used all over the place. Compressor, shelving and graphic eq, too bad they don't make it anymore. Well, not really, because a good 3 way box or an expensive 2 way box like PAS etc. will really sound the best.

And learn to use the EQ, Filter and occasionally the FX on your PM3 to open it up because it can sound fantastic, the stockers are all dark and sucky. Gansu has some custom programs compiled from sound design done for artists from a "friend". Ask her about the SMF sysex file.
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 09/30/04 12:23 AM

Hey there capnzoot! Thank for jumping in during my absence, or even my presence for that matter.

hermanjoe, sorry I haven't been as quick recently with responses. I promise it is not a trend. I just have several projects that have been taking a fair amount of time lately. However, with capnzoot around everything is COOL. \:\)

And speaking of capnzoot, hey man, sorry I missed you in Dallas. Fair Park is a beautiful facility. Give me a buzz or e-mail sometime. I hope you still have my personal address.

See ya,

Dave
Posted by: hermanjoe

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 09/30/04 01:29 AM

Thanks Guys.
Posted by: Immo

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 09/30/04 12:24 PM

If there's a specific issue with the amp you use while performing and you try to fix it by messing around with the Promega EQ, you might try hitting the button somewhere on the EQ panel that makes EQ fixed accross all performances. If you can't find the button I can check the name tonight.
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 09/30/04 01:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by capnzoot:
Gansu has some custom programs compiled from sound design done for artists from a "friend".
Here we go again. ;\) Alright. This is pure gold. If you want it, you have to ask really nicely.
Posted by: MikeT156

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 09/30/04 05:11 PM

Some interesting points guys and Sue. I agree with the issue of using a 3 way speaker cabinet instead of just a two way. In addition to KB's, vocals suffer when using 2 way cabinets instead of 3 way. I spoke to a sound tech at Yamaha some time ago about getting better quality KB cabinets in the future. (I called about the P series power amps). I told him I had JBL 2 way cabinets and he suggested EAW speakers instead of JBL. Something like these for near field set ups.

http://www.getyourgearhere.com/Detail_Pages/D_-_EAWFR153z.htm

These are "entry level" EAW's, and do not have a typical HF horn, its actually a soft cone HF setup. Better for near field and small clubs.

I have been using Peavey International 115 3 way cabinets when I was playing live and they sound decent for Peavey, but not as clean as JBL. EAW should be a step up.

I think you might get some disagreement on the use of a 1/3 octave graphic EQ from our colleague TED, as well as some input from Clusterchord about Preamps and mixers. Ted feels a parametric EQ is better for KB's, and its not the first time I've heard that. I have an old Studio Master Mixer that has a Parametric EQ on it and I'm going to dig it out and connect it to my system for my ES8. The MXR EQ I have is junk anyway.

I think a lot of us need a make over in capability as well as the quality of what we're using. The one thing we can all agree on is that KB amps suck. \:D

Mike T.
Posted by: hermanjoe

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 09/30/04 05:40 PM

Quote:
These are "entry level" EAW's, and do not have a typical HF horn, its actually a soft cone HF setup. Better for near field and small clubs.
I looked into those speakers at a time. I received a few suggestions from EAW about others to try. Basically they are some of the best speakers in the world for live sound, so and $800 speaker is "entry level" for them but they even reccomended those to me. They are very big, I think about 75lbs a piece. I would really like to get a couple of monitor speakers and place them on the stage right behind me, kind of to the sides. I have learned that it's better to spend the most money on your boards, then mixer, then power amp and lastly speakers. I am told this because if the quality of your source of sound is low then the best speakers in the world wont save you, but if your source is good, your mixer good, and your speakers ok, then you'll have something to work with. I blown a boat load on boards, have a decent amp, and I am looking for a good mixer and DI setup. I coulod deal with a $300 monitor from yamaha, don't think I'd spend $1,200 on one form EAW.
Posted by: MikeT156

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 09/30/04 08:40 PM

Yeah, they're pretty salty. Speakers are going to be last to replace in my setup too. I've tried traditional horn loaded monitors and have always been disappointed. I have one right now that just doesn't sound as good as the 3 way speakers I have. When the time comes, I think I can get a pair of those for about 1500.00 new, and have a source for some used EAW's. They'll serve as a small PA for me, not just monitors.

The quest continues. ;\)

Mike T.
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 10/01/04 02:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by hermanjoe:
if the quality of your source of sound is low then the best speakers in the world wont save you, but if your source is good, your mixer good, and your speakers ok, then you'll have something to work with.
We've heard testimony how even the lowly Casio can be transformed in the right hands. But ultimately everything you've spent money on will be going through those speakers. Either they deliver or they don't. Period.

Unless you're not concerned about your own personal sound? It's completely the opposite for me. \:\)
Posted by: capnzoot

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 10/04/04 02:07 PM

She needs to get a life.
Posted by: MikeT156

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 10/04/04 03:02 PM

I use to have a pair of EV S18-3's some years ago. I thought they sounded "boomy" compared to the JBL cabaret series speakers I ended up buying. I reduced the EQ at 250 cycles on the EV's which seemed to produce the boominess in most rooms that had no sound proofing. I spent a lot of time trying EQ'ing to get those speakers to sound good, but wasn't satisified. I'll also say that I know that I'm in the minority with being unhappy with those speakers. It's true that a lot of people used the EV's and were happy with them. The JBL Cabaret speakers when EQ'ed primarily the same way with the same equipment sounded fine. A soundman friend of mine said he thought the passive crossover in the EV's weren't very good and that may have been the reason I didn't care for the sound of them.

There's no doubt that those EV's were "LOUD". But its not just about volume. Its about a quality sound. THE EAW's were suggested by a Yamaha tech when I called about a P7000S power amp. I told him I was considering a new pair of JBL speakers that were smaller and lighter than the Cabaret series speakers I have that sound great, but are made of hardwood and weigh a ton. He told me that if I was "going to spend JBL kinda money" I should consider the EAW's instead. I use my setup as a small PA as well as just for my keyboards. The EAW 153's don't have a traditional HF horn and have a 5" mid range speaker which are nice for bringing vocals out. They're really near field speakers. A quality sound, and a good all around small PA, (I don't play all that loud anymore) as well as a nice KB speaker system. HermanJoe is pretty particular and I don't think he would like the EV's anymore than I did, based on some of the conversations we've had on what he considers good and what he doesn't. I really can't speak for him but I know he didn't like the cost of the EAW's. \:\)

I don't have any experience with Cerwin Vega, but I've heard from other people that have them that they sound good. What sounds good is so subjective.

Sue, what HermanJoe was referring too was starting with quality components from the top down. If you have a crap power amp with low power and you connect them to a "Good" quality set of speakers, you're still going to end up with crap. You need a good foundation for your system before you put the roof on them. Speakers are last in the food chain, that's all.

Mike T.
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 10/04/04 05:56 PM

Quote:
Sue, what HermanJoe was referring too was starting with quality components from the top down. If you have a crap power amp with low power and you connect them to a "Good" quality set of speakers, you're still going to end up with crap. You need a good foundation for your system before you put the roof on them. Speakers are last in the food chain, but's all.
Hey, it's hard enough reading someone's post and understanding what was said, without the added responsibility of reading between the lines. I'm simply contesting the idea of connecting a first-rate keyboard to a second-rate speaker. I don't care what other gadgets are in the chain. (This is the promega3 thread, afterall. I feel obliged.)
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 10/04/04 06:11 PM

OH! While I'm here. I just came back from a wedding. (weird, a monday wedding..). Initially I had my keyboard connected solely through the main PA, which really sucked. Monitors on the walls on my end, 4 other speakers down the sides in the congregation. A huge sub at the back. Well, it's a good system for speech, and ok for the organ along with it's built-in speakers, but I couldn't get a feel for my own volume levels. And that whole delayed, reverberating sound thing was driving me crazy. So, I brought in the Klipsch, and wow! We were able keep the PA levels down to a mere suggestion, and I turned my speakers up to a realistic piano level, and it was great.

Really, you have to think about how much noise one screaming infant can make in a church. Like the one today. What's the decibel level on somebody like that? The Klipsch easily competes.

It passed with flying colours. I'm happy.
Posted by: MikeT156

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 10/04/04 07:43 PM

Sue, I've been replacing components in my PA system one at a time. Its' more logical to start at the source because for one, the power rating of the speakers you buy have to correspond to the power amp output. Self powered speakers eliminate that problem, provided they can give you the output you need.

One thing you need to keep in mind is that I’m (as well as a lot of other players here) running a multitude of different sounding instruments, including drums, as well as vocals, and a harmonizer through one system. If all I had to worry about were the sound of the piano, my life would be a lot simpler. Every piece you have in a sound system is important, so I'm not discounting the need for good speakers.

Cheers,

Mike T.
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 10/05/04 12:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by hermanjoe:
Any Promega users have advice on getting the best sound out of the instrument in a live setting?
hermanjoe, I'm going back to your original question, because it's a good one and it's worth repeating. Here's a link posted yesterday on another thread. I just about missed it. I think it should be called Mandatory Reading.

Mandatory Reading! or, Think About It

thanks, old synth guy.

To MikeT,
I use the term "piano" loosely to include any keyboard instrument. But you're right, i'm not usually competing with a drummer. The opportunity does come up though. So I'm listening!

[fixed the link][I think]
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 10/07/04 11:35 AM

Question about the Pro2 piano. What is it exactly? I'm liking it more and more. One, it sounds ok in mono, and two it's got that "yamaha grand" kind of sparkle right across the board, whether you play lightly or dig in. In other words, it saves me from having to be so careful.

So those old Pro 2 keyboards, (I assume the setting is a chip off the old block), what kind of grand was originally recorded?

Just curious.. Thanks!
Posted by: capnzoot

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 10/07/04 01:00 PM

Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 10/07/04 02:59 PM

Capnzoot! Where the heck have you been? It's Indian Summer up here. I can provide the mystic music, if you bring the rest. We have to stop meeting like this.

Quote:
The Pro2 (and Pro1, ProM) were FFT composited samples from a Yamaha, a Steinway, a Bosendorfer and a Fazioli.
You can't be serious?! That's incredible. That's either brilliant or too wacky for words. So, is this habitual with keyboard manufacturers? Can they avoid copyright issues or something by coming up with their own hybrid? I like it.

This brings me to another question I'm always asking myself. This is a forum of experts. So I come along, old lady with no experience in the digital world save playing, and I ask all these dumb questions. Am I the only one who doesn't know the answers? Are all you guys out there rolling your eyes waiting for me to change the topic or disappear, or am I that damn lucky to have bumped into somebody like capnzoot?

OH well, maybe I was just born lucky.

Quote:
The sympathetic resonance was more pronounced on these units as well.
if that's what I'm hearing, it translates into having to turn down the volume.

Quote:
The Pro2 had an adjustment for "harp" or soundboard "size" which actually allowed you to turn up the volume of the "box" overtones and resonance
sounds like a feature our friend Mr Nightshade might have liked!

Quote:
In the user programs file you loaded there is a good example of the Pro2, labeled creatively "PRO 2" which has 3k dumped pretty seriously as a result of all the mid and upper mid content.
This took me running back to fiddle around with the EQ, which I don't normally get into. so, your PRO 2 sounds nice and balanced. I use it.

I wonder about all that EQ'ing. In a perfect world, the right room, with excellent speakers, would the best response be had simply by setting all the knobs at zero? You know what I mean? How come the factory presets come all tweaked this way and that? Are they compensating for sampling deficiencies? Are they assuming the listener has $400 headphones? In my house, I've got hardwood floors everywhere. The Steinways and Faziolis sound pretty good, with no EQ fiddling whatsoever.

end of dumb questions.

Thanks again.
Posted by: capnzoot

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 10/07/04 06:27 PM

Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 10/12/04 01:41 PM

I need to bump this thread, just to clarify that nobody's made me feel stupid, and lots of people have given me sound advice, including, to name just a few off the top of my head, DaveMcM, Marino, Gas, Anonymous, Nightshade, Immordino, geekgurl, Kcbass, and I'll stop there just in case it starts to appear inclusive and I hurt somebody's feelings by omitting their name. I love everybody! :rolleyes: \:\)

Thanks for the heads up on the EQ and reverb, etc. One basic misconception I've had until recently, is that reverb settings such as hall, stage, etc, were intended for use in headphones, or near-field experiences, in order to give that effect. They are not settings to be employed in the actual halls and stages. (I do hope I've got that right)

So, the big news for GEM (wowowow) is that one of the congregations I play for, is interested in purchasing their own PM3, now that they've heard it and have been dazzled. Before they go ahead, I'm open to other suggestions for great organs, pianos, etc, plus a harp and full pedalboard would be cool, but not essential. Perhaps there's another instrument out there I've overlooked..

There's about 10k in an organ fund started several years ago to play with. I'll be talking them into a new sound system specifically for the keyboard. Maybe the PAS (with a special clause in the music director's contract for rental priveleges ;\) .)
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 10/12/04 11:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by gangsu:
[QB]There's about 10k in an organ fund started several years ago to play with.QB]
Hi Sue,

How have you been? Are you aware that we also manufacture classical organs? I thought you might enjoy taking a look at the site so here is a link;
http://www.ahlborn-galanti.com/Index.htm

Dave
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 10/13/04 12:35 AM

Hi Dave! I've been here all along, but I've been wondering about you! How's business? Gee, that would be something to see, a brand new electronic, midi-friendly, sequencing, pipe-compatible, big mother of a drake-processing Galanti organ, up here in god's country. I mean, you would really be glad you made my acquaintance, eh? What's the commission on one of those?!

I enjoyed taking a look. I admit, when I think Galanti I think accordians. Kind of forgot about the organs. I think we'll stick to a keyboard, though. Was just thinking it might be fun to explore something a little different, but not THAT DIFFERENT. I already do enough fundraising! \:D

thanks! Sue
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 10/13/04 05:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by gangsu:
I enjoyed taking a look. I admit, when I think Galanti I think accordians. Kind of forgot about the organs.
thanks! Sue
Hi Sue,

Accordians and pipe organs are kind of the same thing, right? I mean the both have keyboards and run off of moving air. \:D

But seriously.... I thought you would get a kick out of the new DRAKE powered pipe organs.

Have a good one!

Dave
Posted by: capnzoot

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 10/13/04 10:38 PM

Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 10/14/04 12:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by capnzoot:
Hey. I have keyboards. I move air. Or break wind, to say the least. Am I a pipe organ or an accordian? Please clarify, before I develop perfect pitch and toss myself into a dumpster without hitting the sides.
You know, I have often considered taking up the oboe and leaving it on the dashboard of my car so I could park in the handicap spot at the mall. \:D \:D

Hey man, not to be a PITA, but should I just order the stuff on my own from the web? LOL
Posted by: capnzoot

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 10/15/04 12:46 PM

No, all the paperwork is sorting as we speak. I had a pita at Jack in the Box on Monday last week. Pita on Monday, PITA on Tuesday. I feel your pain. Be patient, grasshopper. Good things come to he who waits. No OS jokes allowed.
Posted by: hermanjoe

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 10/31/04 05:00 AM

HELP!!

Dave McM if your listening....

I am having a major problem with my Promega 3. I have dead notes on the board. I hit the note and it wont sound. The dead notes are differernt depending on the intrument so its not the actual keys which are fine. There is also a bad high pitched distortion coming out of the board. If anyone knows what this is please help. Also i need to get it repaired. Is this under warranty, I've only owned it 6 months max.

Thanks

Tom
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 10/31/04 10:15 AM

It's Karma Hermanjoe. You have to stop threatening your promega with a replacement. No, I'm kidding. I feel for ya. \:\( Hang in there.
Posted by: MikeT156

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 10/31/04 12:54 PM

Hey Tom:

Doesn't that suck? Maybe our man Dave will come to your aid. I hope the dealer you got it from takes care of it for you. Might be a system board.

Mike t.
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 10/31/04 01:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by hermanjoe:
HELP!!

Dave McM if your listening....

I am having a major problem with my Promega 3. I have dead notes on the board. I hit the note and it wont sound. The dead notes are differernt depending on the intrument so its not the actual keys which are fine. There is also a bad high pitched distortion coming out of the board. If anyone knows what this is please help. Also i need to get it repaired. Is this under warranty, I've only owned it 6 months max.

Thanks

Tom
Hi Tom,

This sounds like a software issue. Have you tried doing a reset? With the Main power off, press and hold the Standby button and while holding that button, turn on the Main power switch. Release the Standby button once the LCD is powered up. Wait for the reset procedure to complete and for the instrument to re-boot.

NOTE: This will ERASE ALL user memory areas, so save any work as a SysEx file before resetting.

This should correct the problem. If not, let me know and we'll go from there. Even it the reset solves the problem; I would like you to get the latest O/S version for your Promega. This particular update requires opening the instrument to change a jumper while performing the update, so the instrument must be taken to an authorized service center. Let me know if you need help in locating a service center.

Most importantly, don't worry. I'll get the problem corrected quickly for you no matter what is needed.

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: hermanjoe

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 10/31/04 01:42 PM

Dave,

Thanks I'll try it out.
Posted by: capnzoot

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 10/31/04 02:51 PM

Posted by: hermanjoe

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/03/04 02:47 AM

Dave,

The reset seems not to have worked. I am still getting the same symtoms from the promega. Dead notes and strange distortion coming form the board. Can you set me up with a repair place. Also, is this under warranty as the unit is less than a year old by a lot.

Thanks,

Tom
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/03/04 10:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by hermanjoe:
Dave,

The reset seems not to have worked. I am still getting the same symtoms from the promega. Dead notes and strange distortion coming form the board. Can you set me up with a repair place. Also, is this under warranty as the unit is less than a year old by a lot.

Thanks,

Tom
Hi Tom,

Please check you PM.

Also, all GEM products carry a 5 year parts, 1 year labor warranty. \:\)

Dave
Posted by: capnzoot

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/03/04 11:55 AM

Posted by: hermanjoe

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/03/04 08:40 PM

Thanks Dave and everyone else for your help.
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/04/04 01:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by hermanjoe:
Thanks Dave and everyone else for your help.
Is it working again then? I'm kind of half tempted to look inside the thing myself. (no chipboard in this baby, I see \:\) )
Posted by: capnzoot

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/04/04 07:52 PM

Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/05/04 12:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by capnzoot:
Keyboards are like outhouses. Unless you have business in there, stay out.
What if I just want to watch? \:\(
Seriously I wish I had a problem with my keyboard, but I just don't! There's no reason to get very intimate with it, physically speaking. The only thing I did to it that was somewhat out of the ordinary, was to take an emory board to it (the kind you find in mall kiosks that don't leave behind any residue), and carefully, with the vacuum hose between my knees to catch any wayward flying dust, filed the rough corners under the edges of each and every key. It's way nicer now. You proud of me?
Posted by: rockinroller

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/05/04 08:24 PM

GEM (General Music) is the most underrated synth manufacturer out there. Their line of Equinox workstations are without peer. If their previous products are any indication of quality and unique capture of a market niche, I'd say, go for it.
Posted by: BOPBEEPER

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/06/04 12:36 AM

Hey Zoot that was an interesting diversion
And I liked the visual symetry of your post
Posted by: capnzoot

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/09/04 06:02 PM

Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/09/04 06:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by capnzoot:
"Gansu, you stupid *&^&%, put the screwdriver down!" Which I would never say, except to her directly. And only if asked.
yeah, right. It's more likely that I'd be saying "Zoot, put that screwdriver down! And keep it down!" :rolleyes:
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/09/04 06:58 PM

wait a minute. you edited your post? what did you change? nothing of any significance that I can see..
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/09/04 06:59 PM

Posted by: Immo

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/09/04 09:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by capnzoot:
Thanks for the kind words, UK!

A few years back, like maybe 10, I stayed in the "dorms" at Christ Chruch College in Oxford, and wandered around the area where I'd seen Morse in deep thought, berating Lewis and then going to the Bodleian library. I particularly liked the William Morris room. And the fact that there was a cornerstone that said 1480 or thereabouts. In Texas a historic landmark is anything older than 1927. There is pigeon poop in Oxford older than that! The visuals presented as text are offered for both humor and insight, hopefully reducing any unwanted offensive artifactcs, such as "Gansu, you stupid *&^&%, put the screwdriver down!" Which I would never say, except to her directly. And only if asked.

And the symmetry thing? It's intentional.
I spent some time in Oxford about two years ago. Is morse deep in thought in some painting or something? Also which Lewis, C.S. Lewis, or Lewis Carrol, both famous from that area.

I stayed with a family accross the street from both of JRR Tolkien's houses (he just moved down the block he didn't own both).

I too definitely enjoyed soaking in the richness of the history about me. You hit up the Eagle and Child at all? Or perhaps that biker pub my friends and I accidentally went to and ended up buying fish and chips. I didn't get to visit the Bodleian, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have let me in (one of my friends tried).
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/09/04 09:44 PM

Hey capnzoot,

When you get a chance, drop me an e-mail or give me a ring.
Thanks,

Dave
Posted by: capnzoot

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/10/04 10:26 AM

Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/10/04 11:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by capnzoot:
Gansu - All I edited was typos. And All I'd bring is a power screwdriver!
Ok, as long as it comes with the standard on/off switch.
Posted by: burningbusch

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/01/05 04:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DaveMcM:
Quote:
Originally posted by burningbusch:
Dave, ProMega 3 dealer in Seattle?

Busch.
Hey Busch,

Sorry that took a while. The Generalmusic dealer in the Seattle area is Hugo Helmers Music in Mount Vernon. Here is the address and contact info;
Hugo Helmer Music Incorporated
701 South 1st Street, Mt Vernon, WA 98273
Tel: (360) 336-6109

Please let me know how this works out.

Best Regards,

Dave
It took me a while to make this contact, but I again wanted to try the Promega out. Called the above dealer and they said they don't carry them. Any other dealers in the Seattle WA area?

Thanks.

Busch.
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/02/05 08:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by capnzoot:
She needs to get a life.

[ 09-21-2005, 04:32 PM: Message edited by: capnzoot ]
So does capnzoot's editor.

Sorry for the interruption, Burningbusch.
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/03/05 11:24 AM

*bump*
Quote:
Originally posted by burningbusch:
It took me a while to make this contact, but I again wanted to try the Promega out. Called the above dealer and they said they don't carry them. Any other dealers in the Seattle WA area?

Thanks.

Busch.
Posted by: ITGITC?

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/03/05 12:02 PM

I don't understand why one can't find the following at music stores in the United States:

GEM PROMEGA

KURZWEIL PC2X

Who wants to order these expensive keyboards sight-unseen. You don't know how they sound. You don't know if you'll like the feel of the keyboard. You don't know if you'll like the placement of switches.

I put up with it for awhile thinking Kurzweil was going to get back on its feet and get together with SOMEBODY again. Guitar Center & Sam Ash are right across the street from each other in my town. Do they carry either of these instruments? NO. Do they plan to? No.

It's really a travesty that two of the BEST keyboard instruments are out there in the marketplace yet MOST of us will never see them in a showroom. :rolleyes:

There has to be a reason. It certainly isn't for a lack of demand and interest.
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/03/05 12:46 PM

funny though, it never disturbed me for a minute that I wasn't able to get my hands on a promega for a test run. The same would hold true for the Kurzweil. Both proven instruments long before i came along.

yeah, I know, I'm new to the whole industry. Nevertheless, I think experience can sometimes get in the way. Old dogs, and all....
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/03/05 04:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by burningbusch:
It took me a while to make this contact, but I again wanted to try the Promega out. Called the above dealer and they said they don't carry them. Any other dealers in the Seattle WA area?

Thanks.

Busch.
hi,

Please check you PM inbox.

Dave
Posted by: Jon Anderson

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/03/05 05:35 PM

I emailed you dave for the local dealer, but havent heard back from you yet, do you want to sell one? You can respond here if you like, I live in the US, and my zip is 71857, I don't care how far away one is, I need to hear it before I purchace it.

I was about to buy the Nord Stage, but I am holding off to hear this thing, I just got back from playing the RD-700SX, S90ES and the Korg Triton Ex, none of which moved me, and they were conveniently right next to some real grand piano's that I could jump back and forth on, the Roland was the best, and I thought I was going to have to settle on it (still abit hollow), but I was waiting on the Nord Stage to work out it's bugs. Now I am waiting on you.

I want one, I have been to the website, oh did I mention the dealer locator doesn't work? But the sounds are amazing - I have questions, this is driving me nuts!
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/03/05 07:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jon Anderson:
I emailed you dave for the local dealer, but havent heard back from you yet, do you want to sell one? You can respond here if you like, I live in the US, and my zip is 71857, I don't care how far away one is, I need to hear it before I purchace it.

I was about to buy the Nord Stage, but I am holding off to hear this thing, I just got back from playing the RD-700SX, S90ES and the Korg Triton Ex, none of which moved me, and they were conveniently right next to some real grand piano's that I could jump back and forth on, the Roland was the best, and I thought I was going to have to settle on it (still abit hollow), but I was waiting on the Nord Stage to work out it's bugs. Now I am waiting on you.

I want one, I have been to the website, oh did I mention the dealer locator doesn't work? But the sounds are amazing - I have questions, this is driving me nuts!
Hello Jon,

I just searched my inbox for the e-mail address that is in your profile and also your name and didn't come up with anything. If I missed it I apologize. BTW, are you the Jon Anderson that knows Otmaro Ruiz? Just curious.

I just sent an e-mail to our VP of sales to get the name of the closest dealer that has a Promega 3. As soon as I hear something I will get back in touch. Really \:\)

In the meantime, please feel free to ask me any questions concerning the Promega 3 that you have either by e-mail, on this forum or on the GEM Community Forum.

Thanks for your interest and sorry that it has been hard for you to get information. Thankfully that is not normally the case.

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: Jon Anderson

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/04/05 09:28 AM

Thanks Dave, I think I will share this info with the rest of you.

Hello Jon,

The first two sound sections, Pianos and Vintage Keys are the same on both the Promega 2 and Promega 3. To create the third sound section called Bass/Other in the Promega 2 we took various sounds from the Orchestra/Pads and Bass/Other sections of the Promega 3. Below is a detailed list of the sounds within each section of both models.
NOTE: Your browser must have HTML enabled to view the bitmaps. I have also included the lists as attachments just in case they do not appear in the body of this e-mail.

Promega 2 Sound Section List:

(removed)

Promega 3 Sound Section List:

(removed)

The Promega 2 has half the polyphony (160 voices) of the Promega 3 (320 voices). Although no other digital stage piano even comes close to 160 voice polyphony so the Promega 2 is still far ahead of other instruments.

The Promega 3 has aftertouch in its keybed which is very usable with certain sounds but not really for piano sounds so that is probably not an important feature to you.

The Promega 2 has a four band EQ while the Promega 3 has an eight band EQ adding to the sound shaping capabilities.

The motorized faders on the Promega 3 are quite handy when making changes to section volumes during performance. When you select a preset, the volume faders in each sound section move to their stored position. This is important because if you want to adjust a section’s volume, say the string sound layered with the piano, when you touch the volume fader of the string sound, the volume will not abruptly jump up or down as it catches up to the current physical position of the fader.

Speaking of layering, having the extra sound section in the Promega 3 is very nice because it adds another level of sound texture. But again, if you only plan on using the piano sound alone this is not an important feature for you.

On the other hand, I have a feeling that once you sat down with the Promega 3 and started playing around with the 4 sound sections, saw how cool the motorized faders are, etc. you would not regret the decision to go for the Promega 3 and I believe that you would find yourself expanding beyond basic piano sounds.

Please don’t get me wrong, the Promega 2 has the very same piano and vintage keys sections as the Promega 3 so there is no difference in sound. But the extras of the Promega 3 do have their advantages. Of course an advantage with the Promega 2 is you still get the sounds and physical modeling capabilities as on the Promega 3 but for a lower price.

A final thought regarding the cases of each instrument. While the Promega 2 looks great and fits into the current trend visually as most of the other digital pianos of today, the Promega 3 definitely has a unique look. The idea was to give the Promega 3 a look that was not definitive of any particular design trend while also having a somewhat vintage look. The black front panel is much easier on the eyes of the player than shiny silver, and the higher angle of the control panel is more comfortable to use during live performance than the more flat controls of other instruments. Personally I like the idea of having the look of the instrument being as unique as the sound it produces. I kind of relate it to a Hammond B3. There are other brands of organ type keyboards available today that sound very convincing but if it doesn’t look like a B3, then something is missing.

Sorry to go on for so long. I am sure you would be happy with the Promega 2 or Promega 3.

Best Regards,

Dave

Wm. David McMahan
National Product & Support Manager
Generalmusic Corp USA
1164 Tower Lane, Bensenville, IL 60106
Tel: (630) 661-3183 Fax: (513) 774-0941
http://www.generalmusic.us

Thanks Dave!
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/04/05 10:03 AM

PLEASE BE AWARE:

The above post is from a personal correspondence e-mail sent to Jon by me regarding several questions received via e-mail from Jon. I did not intend this to be posted in a forum.

"Jon, I know you were just being helpful and I appreciate that. \:\) I just want to be sure no one thinks I am bumping this thread for marketing reasons. They are a little touchy about that around here."

BTW; Here are the pictures missing from that copied e-mail;
[img]http://www.generalmusic.us/WDMpromegaData/Promega2soundlist.bmp[/img] [img]http://www.generalmusic.us/WDMpromegaData/Promega3soundlist.bmp[/img]
ADDED- Sorry about all the white space, but I don't have time to fix it at the moment.
Posted by: Jon Anderson

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/04/05 12:06 PM

No, I am truly sorry, thank you for clarifying yourself, and coming to my rescue.

It won't happpen again (unless you authorize it)

It looks like you took so much time just for me I wanted to share it!

P.S. any word on a local dealer that I can try it at? zip: 71857
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/04/05 01:14 PM

Hi Jon,

It's not a big thing. I wasn't trying to make you feel bad. And I sure don't want to do anything to discourage enthusiasm for the Promega. I just thought I would place a post of explanation before anyone assumed I was doing something underhanded. So this issue has been tossed over the fence. \:\)

I believe the RSM for your area is traveling at the moment so it may take a day or two to get the information. As soon as I have something I will certainly let you know.

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: GEM-PaulD

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/07/05 04:46 AM

Jon,

You have mail.
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/07/05 07:24 PM

Thanks Paul.
Posted by: brad j

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/12/05 02:06 AM

Pauly! Dave Mac! Bradley J here, your former cohort in crime in those wonderful, terrible early days of working for the big "G". How are you guys? You guys still have my ph #'s? Give me a wring sometime. Also, I want to find out if you guys have heard from Phil Huston un any way shape or form? He hasn't called me in over a year, and all his old numbers are wacked now. You got anything?
BTW..Tell Arnie I need a new "box" for my PM3..I dropped it on a stage one night, and the "standby" button and the earphone jack doesn't work anymore. It takes a 2-3 minute boot to bring the thing into working order...gettin' kind of annoying. But I still love my BIG, BEAUTIFUL BASTAGE! Gotten' me through some really great gigs of late.
Hope all is well in Bensenville!
Look foreward to hearing from you two!

Brad J.
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/12/05 09:23 AM

Hey Brad,

How's it going? Nice to read a familiar font. \:D

I think Phil may have moved to another planet, far far away. Maybe he just wants to lay low for a while to let the sex change take hold! \:D
"Well if he is still around that should bring him out of the closet" "No wait, I didn't mean...."

OK, back to work.

See ya,

Dave
Posted by: Bridog6996

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/14/05 01:55 PM

Hey Dave, are there any GEM dealers in the Louisville, KY area? I'm quite intrigued and would like to try out this promega badboy for myself. Thanks!
Posted by: Bridog6996

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/14/05 04:12 PM

I'm also going to be in Portland, ME next week, so if you could give me the names of any dealers in that area as well I would appreciate it. Thanks!
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/15/05 08:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bridog6996:
Hey Dave, are there any GEM dealers in the Louisville, KY area? I'm quite intrigued and would like to try out this promega badboy for myself. Thanks!
Hi,

Please send me an e-mail and I will give you some dealer choices. My address is in my profile.

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: capnzoot

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/17/05 04:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by gangsu:
So does capnzoot's editor.

[/qb]
Several moderators ago I asked for all of my posts to be removed, and in fact to remove me in total from this forum. That couldn’t or wouldn’t be done, so I deleted my own posts. It seems that when I thought I was done, another one appears. I was hoping to eliminate myself completely from this forum. Which is why I’m here now. Anything I said or had to say on this forum could, or has had, serious personal and professional repercussions. It’s one thing to participate, and another to make a jerk out of oneself. I would jump on the bandwagon of forum bashing rants of others who have left, but ultimately, we are all responsible for our own behavior, and I’ll own my jerk. Like I said, it is one thing to act a fool; it is entirely another to embarrass one’s self in front of people of personal importance like my wife or family, and further to show my ass to the professional world to which I belong. So all my posts are gone, in their original format. On purpose. Because I desired to make them gone, to erase the person I became in the tenor of this forum.
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/17/05 05:13 PM

No jerk, no fool, and no embarrassement to this family.

Your posts were the best! I started saving them when I noticed they were disappearing. Go figure. \:\) All is not lost. Ever.
Posted by: Bridog6996

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/17/05 07:06 PM

Forgive me for prying, capnzoot, but I just have to wonder:

You're using a pseudonym (I think I can safely assume that capnzoot is not your proper name), and there's no personal information in your profile. There's nothing within public view in this forum that could identify you to anyone. So I guess I'm just wondering what possible personal or professional repercussions anything you write could have.

Someone did the same thing on another forum I belong to, but the only difference is that person was using his own name as his username.

Then again, I suppose your reasons are your own. I just can't help but be curious.
Posted by: capnzoot

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/18/05 10:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by gangsu:
No jerk, no fool, and no embarrassement to this family.

Your posts were the best! I started saving them when I noticed they were disappearing. Go figure. \:\) All is not lost. Ever.
You and this forum are not the family to whom I was referring. And the commentary I have provided on this forum are not yours to display.
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/18/05 10:48 AM

To All,

I am not the moderator on this forum and therefore can only ask everyone to respect ones privacy when asked. Furthermore, when someone searches for information on the Promega, I would rather they not have to weed through posts that are not pertinent to the original topic.

I hope this isn't considered stepping over my bounds. \:\)

Thanks for your consideration.

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: StillFightingIt

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/20/05 04:47 PM

Hi Dave,
was wondering whether you could give me a couple of bits of information. I've tried out the promega 3, and absoultley love it and I'm saving for one.

But I'm still choosing between the 2 and 3.

From my understanding, the only differences between the Promega 2 and 3 are as follows:
*Polyphony on 2 is 160 but on 3 it's 320
*Promega 2 only has 3 sound sections instead of 4
*2 has half the EQ of 3
*2 is silver

are there any other differences? especially relating to the action and piano sounds?

Based on the above differences, the Promega 2 would do me just fine providing piano/vintage sounds are the same and the action.

Thanks Dave,

Scott.
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/20/05 05:17 PM

Hi Scott,

Thank you for your interest in the Promega series instruments.

Besides the differences you pointed out, the Promega 3 also has an aftertouch keybed while the Promega 2 does not. The keyboard feel is a bit different between the two; the Promega 2 has a slightly lighter touch than the Promega 3, but they both are very playable actions.

The Pianos and Vintage Keys sections are identical on both instruments.

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: BOPBEEPER

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/20/05 06:08 PM

Dont leave Zoot! \:\( Your posts are Literature. \:D
Posted by: gangsu

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/21/05 07:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BOPBEEPER:
Dont leave Zoot! \:\( Your posts are Literature. \:D
oh BOPBEEPER, get a life.
(BOPBEEPER's a harmless old man with really bad spelling. He needs your help!) (sorry Dave. \:D )
Posted by: GEM-PaulD

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/21/05 12:57 PM

Dear Capnzoot,

Give me an email sometime. I would like to discuss somethings with you. All my contact information for you is old.

Dear Brad J,

Give me an email sometime, as I would like to catch-up.

Best regards,
Posted by: gpallanti

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/25/05 04:17 AM

Have a look of the new portable digital pianos GEM PRP series with DRAKE technology from Promega at http://www.generalmusic.com/html/prodotti.asp?cod=prpser&lingua=eng&frame=ca
In Italy they will be out in Janaury 2006 with a street price of approx 950/1050 US$. I'll probably buy a PRP800. Ciao,

Daniele
Posted by: orangefunk

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/25/05 09:00 AM

Can someone confirm that the piano sound on these new pianos is the same (same modelling characteristics, etc.) as the Promega 3? I would consider changing if so becuase I find I don't use any other sounds on the PM3.
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/25/05 09:40 AM

Hi,

The sounds/models are the same. The difference is the number of DRAKE processors which accounts for polyphony differences and limited editing capabilities on the RP series.

Dave
Posted by: Dreamer

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/25/05 09:54 AM

Cool!
Posted by: orangefunk

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/25/05 12:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DaveMcM:
Hi,

The sounds/models are the same. The difference is the number of DRAKE processors which accounts for polyphony differences and limited editing capabilities on the RP series.

Dave
Best news I've heard this year... if only they had the wheels (and were black!!!) then I'd immediately purchase one!

btw, I heard a Roland 300SX recently and thought it sounded superb... I guess this is going after the same market.
Posted by: Jakaleca

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/26/05 02:28 AM

Hi, all

This is directed at Paul or Dave-

I'm very interested in purchasing a PM3, but can't seem to find a dealer in central Ohio, and the generalmusic.us site seems not to work at this time...

Also, wondering-

* If PM3 has "true" polyphonic aftertouch (or PM2)

* If there has been a motherboard or firmware upgrade this year (late 2005) I should look for

Feel free to contact me directly, or kindly post how best to get in contact with you.

Many thanks!

Warm Regards,
James
Columbus, OH
Posted by: Jakaleca

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/26/05 03:59 AM

Posted by: BOPBEEPER

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/26/05 07:02 PM

ToDave McM,
Has the keyboard been improved or changed on these new models.I had the PM2 and the action was...well, Fatar. Casio have apparently raised the height of the bar!
Posted by: BOPBEEPER

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/26/05 07:02 PM

ToDave McM,
Has the keyboard been improved or changed on these new models.I had the PM2 and the action was...well, Fatar. Casio have apparently raised the height of the bar!
Posted by: BOPBEEPER

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/26/05 08:05 PM

OK, It has a new GRADED action. (Look out Casio!)
The two models are prety identical exept one has built in 10+10watt speakers.
They both have an illuminated perspex music stand (can be turned off depending on your mood!)
Posted by: yabbadabbadoo

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/27/05 02:36 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by gpallanti:[QB]
In Italy they will be out in Janaury 2006 with a street price of approx 950/1050 US$. I'll probably buy a PRP800. Ciao,

/QB]
Yeah, in Italy \:\) What's the street price on a promega 3 though? ;\)

Although I guess the price difference will be less for these models.

I note the UK prices on promegas have dropped recently. But afaict dv247 aren't allowed to sell the rp-series. Perhaps they'll stock these prp?

I wanted to try the promega 2, rp800 and the prp800. The only reason I heard about them was because of the US and this forum [so take a bow Dave for the info, videos etc] otherwise I'd have probably gone for the stock yamaha or roland.

But the np-complete, travelling-gem problem that finds the shortest distance to drive to find dealers, with stock, that don't BS you, to try out the different models, meant I've spent all my money on the computer hardware to calculate the route and the day you can manage it \:\)

I was hoping Gem might have taken the models [with these new prp models preferable, but if not, at least the others] to music live this year, so I could have just driven to one place and then bought from a dealer over the internet. But nope - too obvious.

It's a win for Italian tourism though, that's looking like the best option.

-----------------

As for the keyboard action comments from others, I can't see anything better at the price [modulo the usual subjectivity] compared with these PRP models?

The only model I've tried is the rp800 and that seemed ok - it's not an acoustic action by any stretch, but what else has one for the money?

Do casio have a real acoustic action now on something for ~£1000?

An argument could be made by comparing gem promegas with stuff like the kawai models like mp9500 or even grandtouch I suppose, but they are more pricey than these prp models.

Besides, Yamaha have the same action on their p60 or p250. It's nothing like [read : not as good as, imho] the various actions I tried on the acoustics uprights and grands yamaha had at music live [most of which were different from each other] and casio appear to have been more innovative than them w.r.t sampling a piano, and bringing out new models that have some kind of improvement or difference \:\)

Gem are unarguably innovative w.r.t the sound afaict. If there's someone else comparative in that respect, I'd be interested, but it must be obscure - after all, shaking Bin Laden by the hand is easier than trying a gem, so if you've done that, you've probably been near most digital pianos at some point in the process \:\)
Posted by: orangefunk

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/27/05 07:35 AM

Quote:
Gem are unarguably innovative w.r.t the sound afaict. If there's someone else comparative in that respect, I'd be interested, but it must be obscure - after all, shaking Bin Laden by the hand is easier than trying a gem, so if you've done that, you've probably been near most digital pianos at some point in the process
Funny you should mention that,I had "Ozzy" (don't call him "Binny" whatever you do)around last week for a cozy chat and some cake and coffee... he really enjoyed the Promega 3 (he didn't like the rhodes models due to lack of bark) I have but complained about my choice of coffee and decor of all things...

You can't please some people...
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/27/05 09:36 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jakaleca:
Hi, all

This is directed at Paul or Dave-

I'm very interested in purchasing a PM3, but can't seem to find a dealer in central Ohio, and the generalmusic.us site seems not to work at this time...

Also, wondering-

* If PM3 has "true" polyphonic aftertouch (or PM2)

* If there has been a motherboard or firmware upgrade this year (late 2005) I should look for

Feel free to contact me directly, or kindly post how best to get in contact with you.

Many thanks!

Warm Regards,
James
Columbus, OH
Hello James,

Thanks for your interest in the Promega series. I will contact you directly regarding a dealer.

The Promega 3 has channel aftertouch (not poly-pressure) and the Promega 2 does not have any aftertouch.

There have been several operating system updates/improvements in the Promega 3 and Promega 2 but there have been no hardware changes to the main board of either instrument.

Best Regards,

Dave
Posted by: gpallanti

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 11/29/05 05:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by gpallanti:
Have a look of the new portable digital pianos GEM PRP series with DRAKE technology from Promega at http://www.generalmusic.com/html/prodotti.asp?cod=prpser&lingua=eng&frame=ca
In Italy they will be out in Janaury 2006 with a street price of approx 950/1050 US$. I'll probably buy a PRP800.
Good news: GEM PRP series in Italy will be out in mid december and they are much cheaper than I thought: 699 euro for PRP700 and 750 euro for PRP800, and just 25 euro for the triple pedal.
I've just ordered the PRP800 with triple pedal See links below. Ciao,

Daniele

PRP700 http://www.cherubini.com/product.asp?Id=2895
PRP800 http://www.cherubini.com/product.asp?Id=2894
Triple pedal http://www.cherubini.com/product.asp?Id=2896
Posted by: ctbk

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 12/01/05 11:19 AM

Is the action mounted on these new models somewhat different from other GEM Keyboards? What kind of action is? Thanx.
Posted by: DaveMcM

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 12/01/05 02:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ctbk:
Is the action mounted on these new models somewhat different from other GEM Keyboards? What kind of action is? Thanx.
Hello,

The action used in the RP and pRP series is not the same as used in past GEM keyboards.

Dave
Posted by: ferran rc

Re: GEM Promega 3 - 12/05/06 12:30 PM

Hello,

Sorry for my english, it's not very good, i write from spain.

I'm an amateur pianist, and after reading some formus, webpages, etc... to try to decide what digital piano to buy, I finally decided (after I saw the demo videos of the promega 3 in the GEM web, and listened to the sounds demos) to buy The Promega 3.
Last week i sent an e-mail to the spanish dealer of GEM, asking where could I buy a Promega 3, and he answered me that Gem has stopped the production of this digital piano!
What deception!!
Anyone knows why Gem has stopped producing the Promega 3?
There will be in next months a new model, with the specifications of the promega 3? or better?
If anyone can help me i would be agreed, because I was decided to buy one, and now I can't!!

I think is the best digital piano I've heard, and I'm really very interested in buying one, but if anyone knows if GEM will start selling a new model, maybe I'll wait sometime

Sorry for my english another time
Thanks

Ferran