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Posted By: Sundown The one Hammond sound I can't stand... - 02/07/19 10:24 PM

We all love Hammond organs, but one of the few timbres I can't stomach can be heard in this clip at 1:38.

I'm certainly no expert, but it sounds like the high drawbars are active, vibrato is active, and the Leslie is active. The sound really cuts, but so do nails on a chalkboard.

I've heard Joey DeFranceso use it on rare occasion, but it's just not a sound I like.

making all kind of friends today, aren't we? smile
" but one of the few timbres I can't stomach can be heard in this clip at 1:38."

You're squabbling about nothing.

Busch.
Posted By: CEB Re: The one Hammond sound I can't stand... - 02/07/19 11:06 PM
800008888. It is used a lot. In Squabbling and non-squabble situation.

Songs like Liitle Feat's Spanish Moon and a in Smashmouth's Walking On the Sun. No other registration sounds right when you need that sound. In these cases I don't consider it squabbling. In my mind squabbling is the playing technique and not the registration. Judging from past discussions I'm probably in the minority on this point but I'm still right.
both fantastic songs. As always, Ed, love your avatars. thu
Posted By: CEB Re: The one Hammond sound I can't stand... - 02/07/19 11:24 PM
I almost forgot Valentines Day.
Originally Posted By: CEB
80 0008 888. It is used a lot. In Squabbling and non-squabble situations.

Thank you! I LOVE this sound, but was never able to pinpoint the registration. I leave the perc on a lot, so that would be one reason.

Poster is wrong, this sound is fantastic!

BTW: I never noticed the B3 in Walking on the Sun, obviously heard the Vox, now I'll have to figure it out. Sounds like a few of the upper drawbars are a little lower, maybe 80 0008 855 or something. Fantastic song though.
I know its not exactly the same sound, but it reminds of the the theme from "Dave Allen at Large" which is as good enough reason as any to post a link to it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2DbF7qUO1k
Posted By: gg22 Re: The one Hammond sound I can't stand... - 02/08/19 12:10 AM
Originally Posted By: Sundown

I'm certainly no expert

Right.
Originally Posted By: EricBarker

BTW: I never noticed the B3 in Walking on the Sun, obviously heard the Vox, now I'll have to figure it out.

OT
when I saw them live many years ago the keyboard player was using an Alesis Andromeda for the organ parts. No idea what was used in the studio
Posted By: WheelHead Re: The one Hammond sound I can't stand... - 02/08/19 01:24 AM
Originally Posted By: Sundown

We all love Hammond organs, but one of the few timbres I can't stomach can be heard in this clip at 1:38.


As everyone knows it is called squabble. Its 'happy'. A little bit like a corny 'ragtime' ambience. It is used, imo, as a 'changeup' to take the 'ear' away from the normal Hammond 888000000/percussion (Hammond is not a theater/theatre organ with a variety of sounds) and other common registrations not to wear out the listener so the when it goes back to the common registrations they sound good Some songs focus around it mainly like a 'Mac The Knife' . It IS cornball in my opinion though it depends who plays it. Though, imo, ragtime piano played well is not cornball but I do have musician friends who hate that too. Squabble does have a 'changup' purpose.

WH
Posted By: JoJoB3 Re: The one Hammond sound I can't stand... - 02/08/19 01:38 AM
...and the example video you've chosen.

SMH
I use it often.....
Posted By: Sundown Re: The one Hammond sound I can't stand... - 02/08/19 12:21 PM
Originally Posted By: JoJoB3
...and the example video you've chosen.

SMH


To be fair, I was checking out an XB-5, and I just happened to hear the sound. Iím sure a genuine tonewheel would have been a better example.
Posted By: ABECK Re: The one Hammond sound I can't stand... - 02/08/19 12:25 PM
I like the sound in an ensemble context. It cuts through appropriately. I'm more of a fan when it's funkier. Generally the the part I don't prefer about the squabble is the technique - not a performance I like. But The sound is great.

Now, a leslie on Stop is a sound I dislike (especially for an extended time). But, I think I may be in the minority on that opinion.
Originally Posted By: ABECK
Now, a leslie on Stop is a sound I dislike (especially for an extended time).

+1. I'm sure I'm in that same minority...
Posted By: BenWaB3 Re: The one Hammond sound I can't stand... - 02/08/19 01:08 PM
As far as the sound on stop - a lot of that is according to the setting. For most Rock settings it might sound too dry, although it certainly works for Steve Winwood. For Jazz settings where a certain amount of (soundwise) precision is called for, using the chorale setting smears the sound too much. I remember hearing a few jazz recordings where "something doesn't sound right, there" and upon closer inspection it was that the Leslie was on chorale. But in actuality none of us are wrong and all of us are right as long as we don't insist that our opinion is the only correct one.
Posted By: SteinwayB Re: The one Hammond sound I can't stand... - 02/08/19 01:10 PM
Love squabbling! A little off the beaten path which I picked up from Breaking Bad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxf1IFgPH5s
What gets to me is someone setting the Leslie to fast, and just leaving it there. Sorry, but the Leslie has to be Played to be appreciated
Posted By: Synthoid Re: The one Hammond sound I can't stand... - 02/08/19 01:16 PM
Isn't there a British dish called squabble and squeak? laugh
Originally Posted By: SteinwayB
A little off the beaten path which I picked up from Breaking Bad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxf1IFgPH5s
I know I'm a Hammond geek because that performance of "On a Clear Day" also stopped me in my tracks when I saw that episode, and a few other major events were also happening at that point in the show!
Posted By: Stokely Re: The one Hammond sound I can't stand... - 02/08/19 01:25 PM
I don't really like playing with percussion *runs away*

Granted, I'd never, ever call myself an organist. I tend to play chords more as background in my band, so that may be why...I like being the "glue" more than I do soloing.

I do appreciate the sound of it sometimes, various ELP and tunes like Green Eyed Lady being prominent examples.

I also tend to not use chorus and vibrato, but part of that is I don't play on a real organ and it sounds iffy on the keyboards I use.

I was just listening to the Point of Know Return album by Kansas...that's a great rock organ tone he's got there.
I love the squabble, but IMO you have to treat it like you would a party trick and never pull it out more than once a night, in one part of one song. Overdo it and it sounds like cheese.

I am learning to love the "stop" sound, but I am not yet skilled enough to make it work over long sections of a solo or song; I use it right now as a color in a much broader palette. But that moment of starkness can be really effective at the beginning of a solo that develops from there. I know others are much better at making it work on its own. Maybe by the time I am 80...

I am pretty active on the brake, but I notice I have two approaches. During a song, I am mostly leslie slow or even stop, with fast held in my pocket for big dynamic changes or expressive isolated phrases. When I solo I tend to reverse the equation, with more time spent on fast and slow being for beginnings and ends of phrases that I want to have greater definition.

Want to know when I use the pedals? Never. Big hole in my development. That one may have to wait for the next life.
It reminds me of this organ. I asked once before: does anyone know the exact drawbar settings?

I use the sound all the time, but don't squabble it. I also use brake often, but never use 88800000, different strokes.

Can't say there's an organ sound that I hate, like it all.
Posted By: Sundown Re: The one Hammond sound I can't stand... - 02/08/19 04:27 PM
I think a true Hammond makes a much better squabble. Usually the times that it irks me the most are clone wheels.
hmm, go to 15:15 of this video and tell me where the difference is?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLKKFImRbDY
Posted By: cedar Re: The one Hammond sound I can't stand... - 02/08/19 05:29 PM
In defense of the OP, there was a time many eons ago - before I did much listening to organ players, let alone played one myself - that I did not appreciate the squabble sound either. It can be a little jarring the first time you hear it.

But now I love it...
Posted By: Pigmeat Re: The one Hammond sound I can't stand... - 02/08/19 05:39 PM
I like Mike Finnigan's use of it in this video (starts around 1:30)

Originally Posted By: Sundown
[quote=JoJoB3]...and the example video you've chosen.

SMH


To be fair, I was checking out an XB-5, and I just happened to hear the sound. Iím sure a genuine tonewheel would have been a better example. [/quoe te]

You are a brave man to comment this way among this 1984 thought speak crowd. And you are correct, the clone Hammond, not to mention the way the demonstrator was playing the squabble... yes, I quite understand why you were turned off.

In the hands of an Erroll Garner on a real Hammond, that is another matter. But mainly kudos for your bravery.
Posted By: konaboy Re: The one Hammond sound I can't stand... - 02/08/19 05:46 PM
you're not alone, i stay well away from that registration, too cheezy and greasy.
In just quick playing around while live, I really am liking something like 00 8800 555 for pads in a rock setting, maybe a little 2' in there to give it some edge. It's also an extremely quick registration to construct on the fly. No perc, maybe some C3. Someday I'll fine tune it in a quieter setting, but it's quickly becoming one of my go-tos for background stuff.

Sadly, I still spend most of the night wide open, the band is so loud I feel like that's what I gotta do to cut through the mix.
Posted By: Jazz+ Re: The one Hammond sound I can't stand... - 02/08/19 06:16 PM
I'm not a squabble fan either. I never use it.

I mostly play:
84822000
Leslie OFF
C3 ON
2nd Percussion ON
plus some Overdrive
Posted By: waygetter Re: The one Hammond sound I can't stand... - 02/08/19 06:21 PM
Originally Posted By: Sundown
To be fair, I was checking out an XB-5, and I just happened to hear the sound. Iím sure a genuine tonewheel would have been a better example.
Hey Sundown, don't backpedal! Stand your ground man! taz

(joshing ya)
Posted By: CEB Re: The one Hammond sound I can't stand... - 02/08/19 06:45 PM
Y'all sound like a bunch of piano players. Don't overthink registrations. Just grab and pull.
I'm a non-fan of 80 000 0008 myself.
Posted By: marczellm Re: The one Hammond sound I can't stand... - 02/09/19 09:02 AM
The Hammond sound I don't like is the vibrato.
Posted By: Legatoboy Re: The one Hammond sound I can't stand... - 02/09/19 09:43 AM
folks forget that the playing of any sound on any instrument is effected by the way it's played.... even without velocity or aftertouchÖ you are the other half of the equation.

Legato, Portamento and Staccato touches all come into play here even on a Hammond...


The squabble setting is used a LOT in gospel and reggae music (I think the reggae setting uses 00 8000 888. with the 8í drawbar instead of the 16í).
Posted By: Sundown Re: The one Hammond sound I can't stand... - 02/09/19 12:53 PM
Originally Posted By: marczellm
The Hammond sound I don't like is the vibrato.


Iím not really a vibrato fan either. Leslie yes, vibrato no. But a lot of it is due to the genre I play.
Posted By: Synthoid Re: The one Hammond sound I can't stand... - 02/09/19 01:21 PM
Originally Posted By: konaboy
you're not alone, i stay well away from that registration, too cheezy and greasy.


Like a pizza? laugh
Posted By: scottasin Re: The one Hammond sound I can't stand... - 02/09/19 01:57 PM
Originally Posted By: samuelblupowitz
Originally Posted By: SteinwayB
A little off the beaten path which I picked up from Breaking Bad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxf1IFgPH5s
I know I'm a Hammond geek because that performance of "On a Clear Day" also stopped me in my tracks when I saw that episode, and a few other major events were also happening at that point in the show!
its when I listen to things like this that I start to think my NE2 is actually not adequate. That percussion and click is THICC, and the Nord 2 just don't do that.

And... I too am in the "not a fan of the squabble" club. Again, maybe its that I've been on a NE2 for a decade and it just doesn't do that sound well... but in this song, the Hammond sound on the intro is something I live for, the squabble solo is a bit offputting.
Posted By: Randelph Re: The one Hammond sound I can't stand... - 02/09/19 04:56 PM
Not a fan of the squabble either, or much if any vibrato. I hate sounding like some theatre organ sounds, you know, where full tilt vibrato and fast leslie are used throughout.
Originally Posted By: Synthoid
Originally Posted By: konaboy
you're not alone, i stay well away from that registration, too cheezy and greasy.


Like a pizza? laugh
Oh no, not again....
Posted By: Synthoid Re: The one Hammond sound I can't stand... - 02/11/19 09:31 AM
Oh come on... you can never have enough pizza. cheers


Posted By: Outkaster Re: The one Hammond sound I can't stand... - 02/11/19 12:32 PM
Originally Posted By: Music Bird
The squabble setting is used a LOT in gospel and reggae music (I think the reggae setting uses 00 8000 888. with the 8í drawbar instead of the 16í).


No not for Reggae really. There is very little drawbar pulled out for the bubble sound.
Posted By: ChiefDanG Re: The one Hammond sound I can't stand... - 02/11/19 05:15 PM
Brian Auger has a version of "Listen Here" that will piss off most you guys.
No Leslie , vibrato , "squabble" type db settings, smears.......
Yet, I find it a jaw-dropping solo. Mileages vary.
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