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Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread

Posted By: ElmerJFudd

Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/15/19 04:49 PM

And I suspect it's going to be a long thread. As practical as a CP, leaning toward the vibe of the SV-1 and paying attention to why some choose Nord. But with Yamaha made actions and sounds.



CP88 - $2499.99
CP73 - $1999.99

Quote:
A stage piano that sounds great and feels great is important to every pianist and keyboardist. The modern keyboard player also needs to bring studio production elements to the stage. This makes access to key sound shaping controls an equally important part of the instrument. Over the past several months Iíve been playing the new CP88 and just finished a long session with the CP73. It has been a great experience because all the aforementioned attributes of great sound, great feel and great UI have been met! There is something about playing an instrument that looks really good too, and the CP88 and CP73 just look cool. If youíve ever owned something that you sometimes look at it and think ďwowÖthat is so coolĒÖThat is what itís like for me and the new CP!




Quote:
Here is a quick summary of whatís new:
Direct Sound Control
Authentic Grand, Upright and Electric Pianos
Two Actions for Two Types of Players
CP88: New 88-key Graded Hammer, Natural Wood Action with Synthetic Ivory and Ebony Keytops and GH3 Triple Sensor
CP73: New 73-key Balanced Hammer Action
Sound Expandability
Cool Design
Comprehensive Connectivity
Soundmondo Compatibility
Comprehensive 4-Zone MIDI Controller
Cool Cases


Everything you want to know about the UI and action:
https://www.yamahasynth.com/yamaha-synth-rss/introducing-the-yamaha-cp88-and-cp73-stage-pianos

Posted By: ElmerJFudd

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/15/19 04:57 PM

Posted By: KorgyPorky

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/15/19 05:05 PM

Definately deserves its own thread..
They are follwing the nord school, i guess..
Nifty interface...


Yet the part i loved most of cp4, all its buttoms on the fromt still make it the perfect lower manuall in a setup..
Posted By: burningbusch

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/15/19 05:06 PM

Looks very nice. I like the CS80 colored tab switches! More detailed information can be found here:

http://www.easysounds.eu/MusicProduction...E4EwR4gwY2shci4

Busch.
Posted By: Mark Schmieder

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/15/19 05:12 PM

Thanks, Elmer -- I was still updating the other threads while you were starting this one, which was the recommendation I made anyway, but I didn't want to have to be the one who made it a useful thread by reiterating the basic information once again. :-)

76-key is often more usable than 73-key in terms of longevity and breadth of coverage, as it's often easy to drop the top-most octave and not miss it (it isn't used much for a lot of traditional piano stuff outside of classical concert music where you'd want more of a full grand equivalent anyway).

I'll have to check that note range on the 73. It's rare enough to see weighted keys below an 88-er. No escapement, diminishes its competitiveness against Kawai MP-series though (unless my memory on those specs is wrong).

Overall, it looks like Yamaha has stepped up the game quite a bit, but is still nervous about cannibalizing sales of Clavinova etc. Whereas Kawai seems more willing to accept that they are different markets for the most part, and give more of their top-end home piano features to the portable line.
Posted By: Mark Schmieder

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/15/19 05:17 PM

I just remembered the name of that UK vendor that does such good videos and tutorials: Bonners Music. Maybe someone can look it up and link it if they have something already; I can't check video/audio at work and have limited lunch time to even just browse.

As I mentioned in the NAMM thread, the new trend from Yamaha with their guitars, basses, and keyboards, to include custom form-fitting quality cases and bags (with wheels when necessary) is highly welcome. I had recommended this to them for years, as it's a captive market and guaranteed profit as well as a huge problem for us otherwise since it's difficult to find bags that fit.

My recollection is that Yamaha shifted towards providing bags/cases roughly five years ago. They have been VERY consistent about it since then. I say this as someone who also owns Yamaha basses and guitars. And they are high quality cases and bags at that.
Posted By: Mark Schmieder

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/15/19 05:19 PM

Oh wow, I didn't see the "4-zone MIDI controller" spec elsewhere, until reading the "what's new" snippet above. I'm pretty sure that's a step up from what most digital pianos (vs. DAW's like a MONTAGE) offer.
Posted By: stoken6

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/15/19 05:21 PM

1. I'm delighted that Yamaha got the 73 memo. CP73, P121, MODX7, it's all good.
2. Comparing the 73 to the 88: how do they get a weight reduction of 32% with a size reduction of 17%? I'll wager either one of the weight figures is wrong, or the 73 has a different action from the 88.

EDIT: the Kraft video above mentions a balanced action for the 73 and a graded for the 88.

Personally, I'm not in the market for a stage piano at this price point (even a 73 with a premium action, internal PSU and 5-pin MIDI), but I congratulate Yamaha on taking this step.

Cheers, Mike.
Posted By: Mark Schmieder

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/15/19 05:22 PM

Mike, the 73 has a different action, more akin to a MONTAGE, so that has an effect on the weight.
Posted By: Macsaint777

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/15/19 05:26 PM

They are in fact, using the same action as a Montage 8 in the 73. I've played both of them.. I prefer the 88, though I wish it had escapement.
Posted By: JerryA

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/15/19 05:30 PM

Good to have the more detailed information. Thank you Busch.

Do we know if sounds can be specified to go through the xlr jacks and quarter inch outs on a case by case basis?
Posted By: burningbusch

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/15/19 05:33 PM

Originally Posted By: Macsaint777
They are in fact, using the same action as a Montage 8 in the 73. I've played both of them.. I prefer the 88, though I wish it had escapement.



Does the action have a heavier feel on the 88? I have the Montage 8 and wish it were heavier.

Busch.
Posted By: Macsaint777

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/15/19 05:37 PM

It feels slightly heavier than the CP4 - it is essentially a P515 or CLP-645 action without escapement, and with triple sensors. Very different than the Montage, and yes it is heavier.
Posted By: davedoerfler

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/15/19 05:37 PM


Posted By: Mark Schmieder

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/15/19 05:44 PM

Oh, I didn't see that excellent guide that Busch linked a bit earlier. Lots of detailed photos there, and I especially like the old-fashioned throw-switches for turning on the acoustic and electric piano engines separately, with confirmation status LED's. That solves a typical "dark stage" problem and avoids a lot of mistakes in the heat of the moment at gigs.

I haven't gotten deep enough into that guide yet to see if it talks about programming, but was already going to ask earlier whether this might be something the Purgatory Creek samples could be targeted towards.
Posted By: Josh Paxton

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/15/19 05:47 PM

Initial impressions: Form factor and UI look smart. Connectivity seems impressive. Weight is nice. 73-key option = YES, FINALLY, THANK YOU!!! APs sound great. EPs sound usable. Clav... sounds like 1997.
Posted By: cphollis

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/15/19 05:54 PM

Looks very Nord-ish in its design and feature set.
Posted By: N4dr0j

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/15/19 05:55 PM

Effects section is cool. 73 weighted keys is good. Cutoff/resonance options would have been nice. In the ďstage piano with ROMpler soundsĒ category this seems like itís a top contender. Hope they sell well.

Edit; and obviously targeting the Nord piano/electro market. Not a bad thing.
Posted By: Mark Schmieder

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/15/19 05:58 PM

Back to the gig bags again: does it look like Yamaha sourced these from high-end maker Mono Bags?
Posted By: Mark Schmieder

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/15/19 06:00 PM

Looking at closeups now of the back panel, from the manual that Busch linked, it is clear that tri-pedals are not supported, unless doing so via MIDI (CME at one point made such pedals), as there is just one sustain jack and one continuous jack.

Oh wait, there's also foot controller one and two. Those didn't show up in the specs. I'll update this post once I figure out what they're for.

Initial Update: no resolution on the foot controller jacks in the Music Production Guide. They could be for expansion to tri-pedals. It seems likely.

The guide is across products, and doesn't go into that sort of depth as it's more about programming and sound libraries. Peter Krischker's Easy Sounds is awesome and I used his products a lot when I still had hardware. He was behind a lot of the CS6x and EX5 and then later the MOTIF XF or maybe MONTAGE or both, as I recall. Maybe he was involved swith CP-88/CP-73 voicing also.

Further Update: the Yamaha link at the top of the thread, which I assumed was the same as the earlier one and so didn't click on at first, has a somewhat more detailed description for the foot controller jacks as "FC7 assignable inputs".

So I think that affirms that one could create the equivalent of a tri-pedal setup, and some tri-pedals might work if they use Yamaha polarity (or you have a converter cable) and they don't combine any of the pedals into a single jack.
Posted By: eric

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/15/19 06:08 PM

Looks pretty badass. I can't wait to check it out at NAMM. I hope they have them available for demo.
Posted By: eric

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/15/19 06:10 PM

Originally Posted By: Mark Schmieder
Back to the gig bags again: does it look like Yamaha sourced these from high-end maker Mono Bags?


Gig bags to me look nearly identical to Nord. Different color and different handle perhaps, but the form factor, wheels, etc. look nearly identical.
Posted By: Mark Schmieder

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/15/19 06:14 PM

Interesting. I haven't owned Nord since my NL3 was stolen in late 2006, and that one was just a thin vinyl wrapper without wheels. I had only seen that textured approach so far from Mono, but Nord might outsource to them also.
Posted By: eric

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/15/19 06:19 PM

I had not noticed the texture look to the Yamaha cases on first glance so the fabric appears different than Nord. But the dimensions, the lining, the placement of wheels and little nubs for standing it up are so very close to what Nord offers for the 76 and 88 keyboards. The smaller ones 73 and below are less robust from Nord, probably like what you had on your NL3.
Posted By: David R

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/15/19 06:23 PM

Nothing that would make me trade my Nord Electro 5D73 for, but I'll be happy to use this as backline anywhere in the world.
Posted By: Mark Schmieder

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/15/19 06:31 PM

The more I look over the more detailed specs and higher resolution pictures in what Busch linked, the more I see influences from just about everything out there, which was NOT the case with previous CP-series or P-series digital pianos from Yamaha.

For instance, the thicker throw-switches are like what Korg uses a lot now, as is the semi-rounded overall enclosure shape. Some of the dials and other layouts characteristics are reminiscent of the GEM ProMega as well as Nord products.

It's very clear that Yamaha did WAY more deep focus group research on this than previous models. Obviously, competition is good. There wasn't as much of that when the earlier series came out over the past two decades.
Posted By: stoken6

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/15/19 06:54 PM

Originally Posted By: Mark Schmieder
Mike, the 73 has a different action, more akin to a MONTAGE
Originally Posted By: Macsaint777
They are in fact, using the same action as a Montage 8 in the 73

Thanks both. So if the CP73 weighs 28lb, why does a Montage 8 with the same action weigh over double (63lb)?

Cheers, Mike.
Posted By: Dreamchilde

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/15/19 07:01 PM

This would hit my hot button harder if they didn't drop the ball on organs again. If this had the Reface tech along with a clonewheel w/ Drawbars...man.
Posted By: ElmerJFudd

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/15/19 07:07 PM

Originally Posted By: Mark Schmieder
Oh wow, I didn't see the "4-zone MIDI controller" spec elsewhere, until reading the "what's new" snippet above. I'm pretty sure that's a step up from what most digital pianos (vs. DAW's like a MONTAGE) offer.


Yamaha have the hours invested. Their mid to top tier boards and even some of the lowest ones make excellent controllers. I havenít sold my S90ES for this reason. Itís great at home and out for the occasional performance where I need something special. The Motif set the standard.
Posted By: Legatoboy

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/15/19 07:10 PM

Kraft had too much bass in that recording for whatever reason, that's all...the EP's don't sound like that....their organs.. well looks like they are still organ 'challenged' ... no surprise but you wish one day they would at least make an attempt to get it right for all the dough we put out for their instruments which are often superior in many ways except for that! A bit sad in a way . . . especially going up against Nord, Kurzweil and Korg who all have superior Hammond emulations of theirs in a world begging for 1 board integration.. but I'm digging their new axes
from what I've seen/heard so far regardless . . .

Copied my post from the 'CP4 gone?' thread . . .

Posted By: Adan

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/15/19 07:12 PM

Originally Posted By: Dreamchilde
This would hit my hot button harder if they didn't drop the ball on organs again. If this had the Reface tech along with a clonewheel w/ Drawbars...man.


Well said. 73 weighted keys, lightweight and compact, 1-1 controls, and Yamaha pianos are all great features. But for this to be your all-in-one board you'd have to make a serious sacrifice on the organ side. And that might be ok depending on the gig. If you paired it with a clone then you'd want to have enough space between them to see and reach the CP controls, which is not attractive to me in a 2-level setup.

But I've been looking for a weighted 73 for piano-heavy gigs (piano on the Crumar Seven just doesn't cut it). This could be that. And for playing with general purpose cover bands, the Yamaha organs might be good enough.
Posted By: guzman

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/15/19 07:29 PM

Is it just me or do the heavy strikes from 2:05 to 2:15 in the long Kraft demo seem abnormally pingy and brittle? Not authentic- hopefully this could be dialed out.
But I really like the rest of how it sounds, and the interface is a huge step up. Good job Yamaha.

My $.02
Posted By: Mark Schmieder

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/15/19 07:40 PM

This is seeming more and more like a replacement for the long-ago cancelled S-series (e.g. S-80/S-90 and beyond), than a CP-4 replacement. So it probably means Yamaha had a complete rethink about how to address this market.
Posted By: Aidan

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/15/19 08:03 PM

So far, I'm not really seeing anything that would make me abandon my CP4. There doesn't appear to be a huge step up with the sounds, there is no real progress on organ sounds, it's a kilo heavier and early pricing in the UK suggests it's around 400UKP more expensive than its predecessor. For more complex sound set-ups, I already have the MODX8.
Posted By: Marillo

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/15/19 08:12 PM

It looks great and sounds fine, but I'm at the limit of how impressed I can be with another phased EP or upright AP. More synth tweakability might have edged it, but at the moment I can't see much here that's going to worry Nord unduly.
Posted By: JerryA

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/15/19 08:17 PM

Originally Posted By: Mark Schmieder
This is seeming more and more like a replacement for the long-ago cancelled S-series (e.g. S-80/S-90 and beyond), than a CP-4 replacement. So it probably means Yamaha had a complete rethink about how to address this market.


Yes, it seems that way to me also. I've always found myself perched perilously between the "pianists" and the "workstation keyboardists" .... This seems to promise the ability to cover casual jazzy gigs but also serve as a master controller in a larger rig. Hopefully the "sub" section will cover some utilitarian rompler duties for in-between gigs. I am sure we will know more in the next round of demos.

Nice interface!
Posted By: rickp

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/15/19 08:40 PM

Originally Posted By: Mark Schmieder
This is seeming more and more like a replacement for the long-ago cancelled S-series (e.g. S-80/S-90 and beyond), than a CP-4 replacement. So it probably means Yamaha had a complete rethink about how to address this market.

Could be, I noticed they included and specifically mention the S700 piano from the S90ES (not the best piano solo, but excellent in a mix), although this lacks the layering flexibility and options, arpeggios, aux outs and wealth of voices and customization the S90 series offers, which has caused me and probably many other S90 series owners to keep for sale signs in the drawer. But, itís 20 pounds lighter and more compact than that series, and thatís not insignificant.

I see a lot of Nord Stage aspects in the sectional layout of these new CPs, albeit with Korg "category knobs" in each sound section. Since it doesn't have two panels like the Nord Stage though, I'm wondering how an upright bass could be split while also layering the piano with strings or a pad (something I do frequently with the CP4), as it looks like the extra voices all come out of one "sub" section. The sound section and effects on/off toggle switches look cool but also look fairly vulnerable to me in gig-world unless a hard case is used.

Lots of interesting questions/answers ahead!
Posted By: Mark Schmieder

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/15/19 08:45 PM

There doesn't appear to be a scratchpad recorder, which I find a useful feature to have, as something usually goes wrong when booting up a computer, and that can make one lose an idea.

The GEM ProMega series had a four-track overdub scratchpad feature, which came in quite handy. It used to be a "given" on a digital piano, even though it was understood that it wouldn't be for final song arrangement work like on a DAW's sequencer such as the MOTIF.
Posted By: ElmerJFudd

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/15/19 09:13 PM

Anyone have accurate weight specs yet on the two models?
Posted By: rickp

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/15/19 09:16 PM

Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Anyone have accurate weight specs yet on the two models?

From another thread, 41 and 28 pounds.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/15/19 09:33 PM

There's lots of info in this PDF...

https://yamahamusicians.com/forum/download/file.php?id=6468

{some from the other thread}
Originally Posted By: zephonic
I may just want to ditch my MODX8 and get a 7 on top of one of these CPís.

I have the MODX7, I have numerous keyboards I like to pair with it, yet I can't say I"m not tempted by the CP73, even though it probably gives me no sounds that aren't already in the MODX. If the action hits the mark, the combination of that and the operational ergonomics could win me over. This board looks like it could be an awfully nice pairing with a Nord Stage 3 SW, too, for organ/synth.

Originally Posted By: Toano88
I'm curious what the weight is. I don't see that listed in the specs.
Originally Posted By: Macsaint777
It weighs 41 lbs for the 88

And just under 29 lbs for the 73.

Originally Posted By: Mark Schmieder
Oh wow, I didn't see the "4-zone MIDI controller" spec elsewhere, until reading the "what's new" snippet above. I'm pretty sure that's a step up from what most digital pianos (vs. DAW's like a MONTAGE) offer.

Yes, a nice feature. Kurzweil SP6 and Casio PX5S also have it.

Originally Posted By: Macsaint777
They are in fact, using the same action as a Montage 8 in the 73.

Interesting. Yamaha has called it a "newly designed" action, but I suppose a new 73 key version of something that was around in an 88 qualifies. ;-)

Originally Posted By: Aidan
So far, I'm not really seeing anything that would make me abandon my CP4. There doesn't appear to be a huge step up with the sounds, there is no real progress on organ sounds, it's a kilo heavier and early pricing in the UK suggests it's around 400UKP more expensive than its predecessor. For more complex sound set-ups, I already have the MODX8.

I think the main appeal vis-a-vis th CP4 would be the more hands-on interface. Also the availability of a lighter 73. And possibly the additional sounds that will be available in the future, though it has far fewer out of the box. Also, SCM looks like it's gone.

Originally Posted By: Dreamchilde
This would hit my hot button harder if they didn't drop the ball on organs again. If this had the Reface tech along with a clonewheel w/ Drawbars...man.

Yeah, but I don't get too down on companies not building full clonewheel functionality into their hammer action boards... if you care that much, you probably want a board with another action anyway. ;-) But it is also a 4-zone MIDI controller, and it looks like you could probably fit a Gemini module on the empty panel space...

Posted By: cphollis

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/15/19 09:42 PM

Yes, it's going to be a LONG thread. I'm thinking they're trying to target Nord here. If I were Yamaha, that's what I would do.

Not a competitor to the Nord Electro (no organ, which is big, even on a hammer action), more of a competitor to the Nord Piano 4. Plenty of piano-centric players out there to seduce.

If that's the case, it would largely get down to quality of action and samples, which AP centric players care about, both which are quite subjective. That being said, my experience with the NP4 has been wonderful.

Although I'll be waiting for reviews for the inevitable cross-compare.

The big library of Nord samples is a definite advantage, but is it worth the additional cost? As an example, the Nord Stage users just got treated to a *huge* upgrade in EP sounds over the holidays. No cost. I hope Yamaha does the same.

The NP4 doesn't do much as a master MIDI controller, but do piano-centric players care so much?

Some great choices that Yamaha made, like old-school retro switches. For me, those are cool. And XLR out. And doing a 76 key version, which Nord hasn't done in a while for the Piano.

Competition is a great thing.
Posted By: Mark Schmieder

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/15/19 10:13 PM

Correction: 73 key version, not 76 key. BIG difference. 76 key boards generally drop the top octave.

73 key boards, can be fairly arbitrary in what keys are dropped on both sides, often resulting in way fewer effective octaves for many playing key signatures than one would expect for 73 keys.

Looking at the close-up photos of the CP-73, it ends on a high E. That means they chopped keys from both ends, thus reducing the number of full octaves on both sides of the keyboard. Not cool. That's like a 61-key board with one extra octave tagged on. Not as useful as an 88-key board with one octave stripped.

For me, it's become a moot point though, as the balanced hammer action of the CP-73 rules it out anyway. And even the CP-88 might be ruled out due to no escapement. I'm not quite sure what market segment would be interested in the CP-73 vs. a CP-76 (with either action), and suspect most of those people would probably have needs that shift them towards the MODX or MONTAGE instead.

Time will tell. The CP-88 at least, should sell quite well.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/15/19 10:20 PM

Originally Posted By: rickp
Since it doesn't have two panels like the Nord Stage though, I'm wondering how an upright bass could be split while also layering the piano with strings or a pad (something I do frequently with the CP4), as it looks like the extra voices all come out of one "sub" section.

The Piano section has a Layers category, which I would guess includes piano+strings, piano+pad, and such.

However, if you want bass on the left and anything other than a piano/EP category sound on the right, you may be out of luck. So maybe not the best choice as a single board for a LH bass player.

Originally Posted By: Mark Schmieder
Correction: 73 key version, not 76 key. BIG difference. 76 key boards generally drop the top octave.

Not true... Not many 76s have been A-to-C. Probably the most common is E-to-G, meaning the difference here is the absence of the top F, F#, G.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/15/19 10:27 PM

Originally Posted By: Mark Schmieder
Looking at the close-up photos of the CP-73, it ends on a high E. That means they chopped keys from both ends, thus reducing the number of full octaves on both sides of the keyboard. Not cool. That's like a 61-key board with one extra octave tagged on.

Not really, that would be a 73 C-to-C.

Originally Posted By: Mark Schmieder
I'm not quite sure what market segment would be interested in the CP-73 vs. a CP-76 (with either action), and suspect most of those people would probably have needs that shift them towards the MODX or MONTAGE instead.

Time will tell. The CP-88 at least, should sell quite well.

I don't know how many care about the 73 vs 76 distinction, but I think there will be a lot of interest in the 73--IF the action feels good--because it's a hammer action that's under 43" wide and under 29 lbs.
Posted By: ElmerJFudd

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/15/19 10:42 PM

73 keys, E to E has been a very common request on this forum at least. This places middle C pretty smack dab in the middle. I like it. Thereís enough out in either direction for deep bass lines and screaming leads in addition to chording in the mid range. The 3 keys 73 to 76 arenít that big a deal and if it makes it just a bit shorter for the compact car guys then itís fine with me.
Posted By: rickp

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/15/19 11:32 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: rickp
Since it doesn't have two panels like the Nord Stage though, I'm wondering how an upright bass could be split while also layering the piano with strings or a pad (something I do frequently with the CP4), as it looks like the extra voices all come out of one "sub" section.

The Piano section has a Layers category, which I would guess includes piano+strings, piano+pad, and such.

True, but youíre at their mercy as to which layers theyíve created and the relative volumes theyíve programmed; if you want the layer voice to be more dominant or more subtle, youíre out of luck. The CP4 has a handy slider for that (as well as an equally handy layer on/off button).

As Adan mentioned, the controlsí depth on the top requires leaving a good bit of space between the CP and a top board, and I always thought Yamaha was pretty thoughtful about reducing that space with the CP4ís design; so that may be a design step backward in that regard. Someone may point out the Stage 3 has similar depth of controls covering its top, but with the organs on the Stage 3, many of us can get by fine without a top board - so its controls spread all over the top are a luxury instead of a problem.
Posted By: gg22

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/15/19 11:33 PM

Originally Posted By: Mark Schmieder
Correction: 73 key version, not 76 key. BIG difference. 76 key boards generally drop the top octave.

73 key boards, can be fairly arbitrary in what keys are dropped on both sides, often resulting in way fewer effective octaves for many playing key signatures than one would expect for 73 keys.

Looking at the close-up photos of the CP-73, it ends on a high E. That means they chopped keys from both ends, thus reducing the number of full octaves on both sides of the keyboard. Not cool. That's like a 61-key board with one extra octave tagged on. Not as useful as an 88-key board with one octave stripped.

For me, it's become a moot point though, as the balanced hammer action of the CP-73 rules it out anyway. And even the CP-88 might be ruled out due to no escapement. I'm not quite sure what market segment would be interested in the CP-73 vs. a CP-76 (with either action), and suspect most of those people would probably have needs that shift them towards the MODX or MONTAGE instead.

Time will tell. The CP-88 at least, should sell quite well.


I've never seen a 76 key board that dropped the top octave, they all seem to be E to G. Although I think that would be an ideal range for me - 76 keys A to C.
Somebody mentioned earlier that Yamaha dropped SCM modelling, but CP88 EP's sound to me exactly like CP4, which are SCM.

I'm on the fence about those new Yamaha - if I decide to get one it would be the CP73 (much lighter and I prefer BH action over "wooden keys"), but as I remember CP4 Rhodes (which I had for a short time) were underwhelming, which are the most important thing for me in a digital piano.
Posted By: ElmerJFudd

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/16/19 12:13 AM

Owners Manual for Both Models

https://hu.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/7/1180527/cp88_cp73_en_om_b0.pdf

Closer hands on look at the interface and some bread and butter timbres.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/16/19 12:57 AM

Originally Posted By: rickp
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
The Piano section has a Layers category, which I would guess includes piano+strings, piano+pad, and such.

True, but youíre at their mercy as to which layers theyíve created and the relative volumes theyíve programmed; if you want the layer voice to be more dominant or more subtle, youíre out of luck.

It's a Yamaha manual, so it's hard to be sure, but it looks like they may have addressed that:

Quote:
The Advanced Mode lets you use the Voice select switch to select any Voice from any Voice section, no matter the
category. For example, you can combine a Voice of Piano section and Wah (insertion effect) of Electric piano section, or
make one Voice to be layered.

That sounds to me like maybe you can split/layer any two sounds, including two from the same section.

The biggest limitation I see is that it only contains 57 sounds. Which is not necessarily such a problem for a bread-and-butter board, except there seem to be some notable omissions. No winds or brass (apart from a single synth brass sound).
Posted By: Al Quinn

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/16/19 01:08 AM

Nice products! The 73 is calling me: both as a lightweight DP and midi controller. Iím expecting Iíll like the action as I usually like Yamaha actions. Looks like they made an effort to make the UI user friendly. I hope they succeeded on that front.

Iíd still keep my CP4 for jazz piano gigs.
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/16/19 01:15 AM

Would the CP73 action indeed resemble the Montage 8ís? That should be just fine.
Wondering how much memory this thing has, as it seems sounds can be added.
Posted By: Polkahero

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/16/19 01:28 AM

Is the chassis made out of aluminum on both models? The plastic chassis of the CP4 really turned me off when I tried one out a few years back.
Posted By: davedoerfler

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/16/19 01:41 AM

Originally Posted By: Polkahero
The plastic chassis of the CP4 really turned me off when I tried one out a few years back.


I, for one, can attest to this as I purchased, and still own, the CP4 that Polkahero origionally purchased. As for me, I'm OK with it. smile
Posted By: burningbusch

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/16/19 02:04 AM

Originally Posted By: gg22


Somebody mentioned earlier that Yamaha dropped SCM modelling, but CP88 EP's sound to me exactly like CP4, which are SCM.


The EPs on the Montage/MODX sound VERY similar to the CP1/5/4 to me (and are named similarly), and those are sampled. My thought is they sampled a CP-1 or derived the samples from the original sampling/recordings which became the SCM EPs.

Busch.
Posted By: jefsco

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/16/19 02:23 AM

Originally Posted By: Polkahero
Is the chassis made out of aluminum on both models?

. . . yes
Posted By: Jazz+

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/16/19 02:52 AM

So are the Acoustic Grand Piano, Rhodes and action are all better than the CP4 ?
Posted By: nursers

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/16/19 04:24 AM

Another vid showing it off. Don't need either of these models but damn they look nice!

Posted By: SteeVtheRipper

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/16/19 04:51 AM

This is the most interesting and attractive board Iíve seen from Yamaha in a while. I love that they went for the one to one interface model. Really tactile and sleek. Now if they could only do this with an analog synth.
Posted By: stoken6

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/16/19 05:25 AM

Originally Posted By: rickp
I'm wondering how an upright bass could be split while also layering the piano with strings or a pad (something I do frequently with the CP4), as it looks like the extra voices all come out of one "sub" section.
The Kraft Music video implied that something called "advanced mode" could be used to call voices up "out-of-category", so you could put upright bass in the EP section, and split that against an AP+strings layer from the Piano and Sub sections. That's how I interpreted it, anyway - I haven't read the manual (sorry Sven).

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
This board looks like it could be an awfully nice pairing with a Nord Stage 3 SW, too, for organ/synth.
Stop giving me GAS - that's a nice combination of decent action, light weight and 7x-size, plus audio ins for the Nord sounds. Although I'd prefer something with better ROMpler brass/strings to complement the Nord - MODX88 would be nice (MODX73-hammer would be even nicer!).

Cheers, Mike.
Posted By: BRW

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/16/19 06:08 AM

The CP73 seems to be quite close to what people (including me) have been asking - a "light-weight Reface CP". (don't know the lbs/kg but I'm guessing)

Price, however, is pretty steep frown Not as expensive as a Nord, but still...

I also don't feel a huge urge to update my CP5, even though the CP88 would probably be much lighter and the sounds have improved. The Reface CP sounds beautiful so I'm sure if the sounds are based on it, this is a winner in that aspect...
Posted By: mauriziodececco

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/16/19 07:13 AM

About targeting the Nord market: a few years ago i choose a Nord Electro 5HP over a CP4, mainly for two reasons: weight (i am an urban/pubblic transportation gigger :), and user interface. I clearly preferred the AP and EP of the CP4, but i didn't wanted a keyboard to program before playing, i wanted direct access to parameters, that i usually change on the fly while playing. And weight was just too much.

In my case, organ sounds were just a bonus, not expecially a reason for the choice.

If i had to choose today, i would consider the CP73 *very* seriously.

Said this, it is not very likely that i will sell the NE5HP to buy it (unless the sound is so great that it convince me otherwise); the NE5HP fit the bill, i love it, a couple of Kg lighter, and it is already paid :->

Maurizio
Posted By: jimkost2002

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/16/19 08:54 AM

These boards look GREAT...... the only fly in the ointment is the two tiny levers that Iím surmising are pitch bend and mod controls.
Any news on the functionality of these controls?

Do we know if the pitch bend and mod levers can be freely assigned. For example, can you set the pitch bend range to any interval within a 12 note span and if so, is the asdignment global or per patch?
And is the mod lever useable in the EP/AP section or only in the ďsubĒ category?
Also, to which parameters can it be assigned?

Kind of a head scratcher since Yamaha is trumpeting these new CPs as master controllers....

Oh, and how about the onboard flash storage? Size of pianos, EPs, etc?
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/16/19 10:11 AM

To me, the biggest head scratcher is the tiny sound set. Here are some common sounds it seems you won't find in these CPs: accordion, harmonica, flute, violin, trumpet, sax, brass section, voices (except for an "air choir" pad), ... forget anything "exotic" like a mellotron or a sitar. Even as a high end piano-centric board, I'm surprised that there are only two clav sounds (so not even covering the 4 basic clav pickup positions)... though take heart, there are 6 FM EP sounds. ;-)

As a single gigging board, unless you're really piano/EP focussed, I'd look at supplementing with an iPad, and then at least the board's good MIDI controller functions come into play, which is an area where it has a leg up on other piano-centric limited soundset boards like the Korg SV1, Crumar Seven, or some of the piano models with built-in speakers. But with so much of the board's appeal being in the grab-and-go sound selection/manipulation, at a $2k+ price, it's really a shame that its sound selection is as limited as it is. Nowhere near what you'd get in a Nord Piano 4 or a Korg Grandstage.

As part of a pair, this small sound set may make more demands of a second board, so if you were thinking about pairing with a drawbar organ or knobby synth, you may also have to think about how/whether your second board can provide some of these other common sounds.
Posted By: MIDI2XS

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/16/19 10:45 AM

Claim is that sounds will be expanded with frequent OS updates.

http://www.easysounds.eu/MusicProductionGuide_2019_01_EN.pdf
Posted By: RudyS

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/16/19 11:10 AM

mmmm I bought a CP4 in June... Ah well I knew this was going to happen. I'm a bit with Aidan on this anyway. There is not really something that would want to swap my CP4 for an CP88. Only thing is maybe the upright sample.

I'm still missing the sympathic resonance on the CP88. Still no mention of it in the documentation. That, with an upright sample, is the only thing I miss in my CP4.
Posted By: ElmerJFudd

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/16/19 11:23 AM

CP4 is a great pick regardless of these models. The 88 is even just a bit heavier.
Posted By: allan_evett

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/16/19 12:08 PM

Originally Posted By: MIDI2XS
Claim is that sounds will be expanded with frequent OS updates.

http://www.easysounds.eu/MusicProductionGuide_2019_01_EN.pdf


That's cool, but the first expansion pack is more EPs and pianos; and this CP is already loaded with a variety of the same. Meanwhile, as Scott pointed out, the instrument lacks a full compliment of bread 'n butter sounds to round out a single keyboard gig where a healthy handful of sounds beyond piano is needed.

The 300+ plus Voices from the Motif series, as found in the CP4, aren't necessary to have on the CP73/88; but the Sub sound category looks awfully thin right now.
Posted By: BRW

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/16/19 12:25 PM

Originally Posted By: allan_evett
Meanwhile, as Scott pointed out, the instrument lacks a full compliment of bread 'n butter sounds to round out a single keyboard gig where a healthy handful of sounds beyond piano is needed.


I'm sure the idea is to complement it with a MONTAGE smile on top (or a MODX, probably)...

That said, the Motif Voices included on the previous CP models were certainly a plus, so I am surprised if they indeed removed all those. But I guess these have more in common with the Reface CP than the CP1/4/5 - which didn't have anything besides the "electro-mechanical" sounds.
Posted By: jimkost2002

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/16/19 12:30 PM

The question really is: if they are taking pages from the Nord Playbook, will these ďmissingĒ Motif voices come in future updates? and will there also be updated functionality? What is the size of the onboard flash ROM? or is it all RAM?
Posted By: KorgyPorky

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/16/19 12:35 PM

Originally Posted By: Mark Schmieder
Oh wow, I didn't see the "4-zone MIDI controller" spec elsewhere, until reading the "what's new" snippet above. I'm pretty sure that's a step up from what most digital pianos (vs. DAW's like a MONTAGE) offer.


Yes its in the specs, but i can not find any direct way of comtrolling these zones..

Kawai mp have several direct buttons for the external zones..
Same goes for Rolands RD800.. and their RD2000 even more so..

4 buttons, 4 sliders and 4 knobs would ave been reat for direct controll of the external parts
There is room enough for this on the panel.
Posted By: KorgyPorky

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/16/19 12:37 PM

Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
CP4 is a great pick regardless of these models. The 88 is even just a bit heavier.


Cp4 was perfect for lower keybed.. could have a 76 key just above it and still read and reach all he buttons..
Posted By: motomike1961

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/16/19 12:55 PM

I hear a little birdie singing in my ear that the CP73 as a bottom board stage piano and the MODX7 as a top board synth is a dream rig covering all my bases ................. except organ ????
Posted By: ChazKeys

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/16/19 12:55 PM

Originally Posted By: KorgyPorky
Originally Posted By: Mark Schmieder
Oh wow, I didn't see the "4-zone MIDI controller" spec elsewhere, until reading the "what's new" snippet above. I'm pretty sure that's a step up from what most digital pianos (vs. DAW's like a MONTAGE) offer.


Yes its in the specs, but i can not find any direct way of comtrolling these zones..

Kawai mp have several direct buttons for the external zones..
Same goes for Rolands RD800.. and their RD2000 even more so..

4 buttons, 4 sliders and 4 knobs would ave been reat for direct controll of the external parts
There is room enough for this on the panel.

You have to menu dive into Advanced Mode - so not easy to control you zones in realtime. I also donít see an option to shift the Upper/Lower range of the internal sound generator. The example in the manual is bizarre: internal piano layered with 3 external splits.

I reckon they will realise an iPad app that will give you Ďliveí access the Zones and probably more besides.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/16/19 01:06 PM

Originally Posted By: jimkost2002
What is the size of the onboard flash ROM? or is it all RAM?
RAM goes blank when it is powered down, so the sounds are stored in ROM or rewritable flash.

Originally Posted By: KorgyPorky
i can not find any direct way of comtrolling these zones..

Good point. It looks like you can store the settings of 4 external zones as part of a recallable Live Set sound, but there appears to be no real-time ability to alter the volume of a zone, or turn individual zones on or off.
Posted By: Pianolando

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/16/19 01:16 PM

Great sound demo from Swedish keyboard player Jonas GrŲning:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBef8xbG...VZ5xPqVzYVw6f88
Posted By: Aidan

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/16/19 01:32 PM

Every time Blake Angelos mentions Valium, I have to remind myself that he's talking about volume!
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/16/19 01:52 PM

Originally Posted By: ChazKeys
I reckon they will realise an iPad app that will give you Ďliveí access the Zones and probably more besides.

Could be, but it's not really a great solution for zone levels, compared to knobs. Touchscreen operation is more finicky, the iPad may not be so well located, you may want your iPad to be displaying something else (your lyrics/charts, or some app that you're actually driving from your zones)... What I'd like to see is something like: you hit some button combination, and then the four knobs for EP Insert Effects (Depth, Rate, Depth, Speed) instead function as volume controls for the four zones. Something could flash to indicate you were in this alternate mode (i.e. the buttons you hit to invoke this mode, or the lights around the knobs themselves).
Posted By: tfort

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/16/19 02:38 PM

CP88's 1-to-1 UI and better connectivity (audio ins with gain control and built-in 2x2 audio interface) are quite appealing, along with updatable OS and sounds. Organ and master controller UI/controls seem a bit lacking. Wonder how well it would pair with a Mojo 61?

Using a Mojo 61 for waterfall keys and organ duties, as well as an iPad/iPhone for synths and missing sounds seems like an option.
Posted By: Polkahero

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/16/19 02:43 PM

If I was still gigging regularly with a band, I would seriously consider replacing my Kawai MP7 with this board. This has a lot of features (dual audio inputs with gain controls for one) that the CP4 lacked.
Posted By: allan_evett

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/16/19 03:04 PM

Originally Posted By: Aidan
Every time Blake Angelos mentions Valium, I have to remind myself that he's talking about volume!


laugh Yikes, Aidan! Very glad my coffee mug was on my desk, and not in use when I read that..
Posted By: Josh Paxton

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/16/19 03:17 PM

Speaking of Nord comparisons, do these boards have that super-advanced feature that lets you put the split point anywhere you want?
Posted By: Adan

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/16/19 03:21 PM

I agree with Scott, the limited sound set if the most puzzling aspect of this board. It's a $2,000+ keyboard with far fewer sounds than keyboards in the $700 range. Why? Sure, new sounds will be available, but I can't believe it would have added much if anything to the cost to have, say, 100 sounds to begin with.

On the spectrum between gigging keyboard to workstation, this is much more the former. So violins and glockenspiel are a low priority. Having a dozen lead synth patches rather than just 2 would gain a lot more mileage.

But thinking of it as a piano/epiano board with a little bit extra, it's still attractive to me, especially the 73. The competition in my mind would be the Grandstage, the Nord Electro/Stage, and the Forte.

I had a Grandstage for awhile. I liked it, but the CP73 has some clear advantages in surface controls (GS very weak), weight, and probably a better action. This is putting aside whether you like Yamaha or Korg pianos better (imo, Yammy wins for ACs, Korg for EPs).

Nord HPs have some clear advantages, but are more expensive and give you an inferior action. For a piano-heavy gig, I'd much rather be on a CP.

I don't know the Forte except that it's much more expensive.

I may get a CP73. If I do, it will be to have Yamaha ACs in a very portable weighted-key package.
Posted By: burningbusch

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/16/19 03:23 PM

Originally Posted By: Josh Paxton
Speaking of Nord comparisons, do these boards have that super-advanced feature that lets you put the split point anywhere you want?


My god, what kind of miracles do you expect from these companies?

Busch.
Posted By: Jazz+

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/16/19 03:54 PM

So besides oodles of knobs and tweak-ability (I like simplicty like the CP4 interface) Is this new thingy the best sounding digital piano ever? Have they left behind the traditional Yamaha technique of sampling a real piano note and then reusing it by transposing it for several keys giving it that all the same sounding quality|?| So is this now the best feeling action and dynamic response (ppp- fff) ever? Better than CP4?

I recall Roland stated moving backwards in DP quality, after their SX stuff, when Super Natural" came along (imo).
Posted By: gg22

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/16/19 04:16 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
To me, the biggest head scratcher is the tiny sound set. Here are some common sounds it seems you won't find in these CPs: accordion, harmonica, flute, violin, trumpet, sax, brass section, voices (except for an "air choir" pad), ... forget anything "exotic" like a mellotron or a sitar. Even as a high end piano-centric board, I'm surprised that there are only two clav sounds (so not even covering the 4 basic clav pickup positions)... though take heart, there are 6 FM EP sounds. ;-)

As a single gigging board, unless you're really piano/EP focussed, I'd look at supplementing with an iPad, and then at least the board's good MIDI controller functions come into play, which is an area where it has a leg up on other piano-centric limited soundset boards like the Korg SV1, Crumar Seven, or some of the piano models with built-in speakers. But with so much of the board's appeal being in the grab-and-go sound selection/manipulation, at a $2k+ price, it's really a shame that its sound selection is as limited as it is. Nowhere near what you'd get in a Nord Piano 4 or a Korg Grandstage.

As part of a pair, this small sound set may make more demands of a second board, so if you were thinking about pairing with a drawbar organ or knobby synth, you may also have to think about how/whether your second board can provide some of these other common sounds.


It looks like some manufacturers worry to much to not cannibalize sale s of their other models, forgetting that many customers may look at their competition instead of their other models. With such a limited soundset, I might just get a weighted controller under the NS3C and save some money.
Posted By: MIDI2XS

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/16/19 04:46 PM

It remains to be seen what additional sounds Yamaha will provide. It wouldn't surprise me if user requests might influence that.

However, the PDF from Easy Sounds says:
"CP is Yamaha's acronym for Combo Piano."
---- and ----
"The new CP series from Yamaha provides an answer to the question of what standards are set for a Stage Piano today."

Those statements may or may not be a clue to Yamaha's intent.
Posted By: Outkaster

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/16/19 05:27 PM

So now the only thing that matters is if Yamaha compares to Nord? Really? I think most Yamaha products can stand on their own two feet.
Posted By: rickp

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/16/19 05:41 PM

Originally Posted By: Outkaster
So now the only thing that matters is if Yamaha compares to Nord? Really? I think most Yamaha products can stand on their own two feet.

Absolutely agree. Some of us already have Nords that do the Nord-thing pretty well. I've always liked Yamahas for doing what I've considered the Yamaha-thing pretty well - producing some of the best sounds then-currently available along with some of the best keyboard mechanisms then-currently available with great connectivity of the two (and accepting in that bargain that the UI may not be the most advanced or intuitive and that the organs generally aren't usable).
Posted By: Joe Muscara

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/16/19 08:28 PM

Originally Posted By: Outkaster
I think most Yamaha products can stand on their own two feet.
Which two feet do they have? That seems unstable or at least "teetery." All the keyboards I have ever owned had four feet.

poke wink
Posted By: Al Coda

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/16/19 08:35 PM

It sounds great, I like the case is aluminium, there are XLR balanced outs, enough pedal/switch connectors,- but unfortunately itīs too "nordish" design (for me).
I never understood why "knobbyness" is essential for a instrument offering preset memory.
I rarely tweak sounds in realtime once I have done my presets I need for a performance,- and here, weīre not talking synth, a DP instead and offering additional soundware.
Iīm also irritated because in the beginning of the vid it says "free w/ OS 1.xx" when demonstarating the piano sound.
Normally, that alone teaches me Iīd have to pay for more updates/ sounds in future.

Back to the design:
All those pots sticking out from the front panel are predestined for breaking on transport sooner or later while the display is tiny and all the knobbyness is in the way of stacking some 2nd keyboard on top to get keys as close as possible together or even put some piece of paper/sheet on top.

I donīt understand why companies ignore flat-top keyboards since some time.

Again, Iīd want a module and I hope it will come.

A.C.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/16/19 09:16 PM

Originally Posted By: Al Coda
I never understood why "knobbyness" is essential for a instrument offering preset memory.
I rarely tweak sounds in realtime once I have done my presets I need for a performance


Knobiness is really nice for players who don't always set up presets in advance.

Also, knobiness simplifies the task of setting up your presets in advance.

FInally, sometimes you do get a sense of something you'd unexpectedly like to tweak at the gig, and if you don't have the control, you don't bother, but it would be nice if you could easily do it.
Posted By: Kawai James

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/16/19 09:41 PM

Wow, these look great. The control panel alone - with all those knobs, buttons, switches, and lights - will surely induce GAS among certain customers. I also appreciate separating the sound types into three individual sections.

James
x
Posted By: analogika

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/16/19 09:48 PM

Just this evening, rehearsal. Nord Stage 3 compact.

Upright didnít really make it through the rehearsal room PA. Added ďbrightĒ EQ via single button.

Couldnít this song use choir? Hm. Mellotron maybe.
Created split, added sample synth with Mellotron mixed choir, within 90 seconds.
Tried it during a run-through. Didnít make sense for the song.
Threw it out again, no harm done, minimal effort lost.

Oh, a Vox would be nice. Hadnít needed a Vox preset yet.
Built a Vox on the fly, chorus, nice reverb, some drive. Ready in thirty seconds. Minimal tweaking while playing.
Saved as new preset.

Kronos is fine if you take the time and prepare meticulously for a production, or provide options for every imaginable eventuality. Itís a royal pain in the ass, but once itís set up, itís great.

Thatís not how my life works.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/16/19 10:09 PM

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
I also appreciate separating the sound types into three individual sections.

A bit reminiscent of the Kawai MP11!
Posted By: Kawai James

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/16/19 10:21 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
I also appreciate separating the sound types into three individual sections.

A bit reminiscent of the Kawai MP11!


Ah, that's where I've seen it before! wink

Actually, it was the MP10 that introduced this PIANO/E.PIANO/SUB approach (although the SUB section was on the right side of the display), and there were more knobs in each section than the MP11.

Cheers,
James
x
Posted By: ElmerJFudd

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/16/19 10:39 PM

We must recall that Yamaha bizarrely left ancillary sounds that were on the CP-5 and CP-50 off the VERY expensive CP1. The 1 was heavy, but had a sturdy build and beautiful aesthetics from the display to the backlit Yamaha logo, tolex textured surface, heavy duty triple pedal, and the first to get that NW action. And there were aspects of the sound engine that were very purposeful to the limited sound set.

Point being, when they decide to spend money on design niceties it appears they also limit the sounds and usefulness.

Hopefully Iím wrong and they intend to expand sound palette with firmware updates. I would not be surprised in this way either - as theyíve been updating the Montage in lots of ways since release.
Posted By: ElmerJFudd

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/16/19 10:45 PM

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
I also appreciate separating the sound types into three individual sections.

A bit reminiscent of the Kawai MP11!


Ah, that's where I've seen it before! wink

Actually, it was the MP10 that introduced this PIANO/E.PIANO/SUB approach (although the SUB section was on the right side of the display), and there were more knobs in each section than the MP11.

Cheers,
James
x


Still waiting for Kawai to put their prowess in action design into the MP7 successor that gets weight down. Even if they need to offer 88 and 76/73 versions.
Posted By: Mr T, Sweden

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/16/19 11:40 PM

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Actually, it was the MP10 that introduced this PIANO/E.PIANO/SUB approach

I would say that GeneralMusic was first. As early as in 2003, their monstrous flagship piano Promega 3 had its sound palette divided in four sections: ďPianosĒ, ďVintage KeysĒ, ďOrchestral/PadĒ, and ďBass/OtherĒ, much like the MP10 and other stage pianos of later years. The Promega 3 was really ahead of its time, with physical modelling, motorized faders, 320 notes polyphony(!) etc. So sad the company went into bankruptcy... (and I donít think the Finnish GeneralMusic company will have any chance of bringing the company back to where it was. Well, at least they have resurrected the Promega 3ís little brother, the Promega 2... but thatís another story...!) smile

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/gem-promega-3

https://www.generalmusic.com/
Posted By: Al Coda

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/16/19 11:59 PM

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
I also appreciate separating the sound types into three individual sections.

James
x


When youīre satisfied w/ three,- thatīs good.
But whatīs up when they upgrade content software wise and it doesnīt fit three sections anymore ?
Good too ?

A.C.
Posted By: Al Coda

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/17/19 12:21 AM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott


Knobiness is really nice for players who don't always set up presets in advance.


Thatīs true for keyboardplayers using instruments w/o preset memory.
I love knobbyness on my Minimoog D, no questiion ...
But WHEN you buy a machine offering preset memory, Iīm sure youīll use that.

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott

Also, knobiness simplifies the task of setting up your presets in advance.


Well,- we use more and more complex technology incl. preset memory since decades,- and exactly NOW, it needs simplification setting up presets.
Who believes that crap,- sorry.

Donīt buy a MACHINE if you donīt want one.

You want it simple(r) ?
Play piano and/or organ.
Both instruments offer enough complexity in the direction of playing īem well.

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott

FInally, sometimes you do get a sense of something you'd unexpectedly like to tweak at the gig, and if you don't have the control, you don't bother, but it would be nice if you could easily do it.


Unexpectedly ...
What shall that be when you prepared your performance well ?
I always assign 1 expression pedal to MIDI CC04 for "filter" (or other) modulation and then I have the wheels and the other expression pedal in addition.

I need my hands for playing and the feet are for special tasks.

A.C.
Posted By: cphollis

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/17/19 12:48 AM

Originally Posted By: analogika
Just this evening, rehearsal. Nord Stage 3 compact.

Upright didnít really make it through the rehearsal room PA. Added ďbrightĒ EQ via single button.

Couldnít this song use choir? Hm. Mellotron maybe.
Created split, added sample synth with Mellotron mixed choir, within 90 seconds.
Tried it during a run-through. Didnít make sense for the song.
Threw it out again, no harm done, minimal effort lost.

Oh, a Vox would be nice. Hadnít needed a Vox preset yet.
Built a Vox on the fly, chorus, nice reverb, some drive. Ready in thirty seconds. Minimal tweaking while playing.
Saved as new preset.

Kronos is fine if you take the time and prepare meticulously for a production, or provide options for every imaginable eventuality. Itís a royal pain in the ass, but once itís set up, itís great.

Thatís not how my life works.


Yeah, that's sort of my world as well. Make it sound good in the moment, save it if it's good. I think I overwrite maybe 25% of my patches during an average gig.

This new Yammie seems to be going after something much different. Not exactly sure what.
Posted By: ElmerJFudd

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/17/19 01:18 AM

They are trying to figure out why people are willing to dump $3k on a Nord Piano, how the heck the SV-1 had a great run, and why Crumar is generating buzz with an instrument like the Seven. Aluminum case, lighter weight (notable reason for the CP4ís success), simpler retro styled 1 to 1 UI, continued library development post purchase, focus on great Acoustic Pianos and retro EPs, branded rolling cases that fit properly. Offered in 88k and 73k versions, I donít know, they are checking some boxes here and bringing it to market at $2-2.5k. And theyíll have Yamaha actions in them.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/17/19 02:00 AM

Originally Posted By: Al Coda
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Knobiness is really nice for players who don't always set up presets in advance.
Thatīs true for keyboardplayers using instruments w/o preset memory.
I love knobbyness on my Minimoog D, no questiion ...
But WHEN you buy a machine offering preset memory, Iīm sure youīll use that.

One of my bands has a repertoire of hundreds of songs, 95% of which use the same 20 or so sounds in some combination or another. I use song-specific presets sparingly. I prefer to grab the sounds I need as I need them. I'm not going to take the time to program those hundreds of songs into separate presets on even one of my boards. A board that makes it easier to get and adjust what I want in real time is preferable. Bonus: I can swap out the board at any time for a different board without having to program hundreds of songs into that one too. (BTW, there is also a benefit here in using two boards rather than one, especially if your one does not have such an immediate interface, since you can play one while seamlessly manipulating the other, without having to even think about split parameters.)

Originally Posted By: Al Coda
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Also, knobiness simplifies the task of setting up your presets in advance.
Well,- we use more and more complex technology incl. preset memory since decades,- and exactly NOW, it needs simplification setting up presets.
Who believes that crap,- sorry.

Donīt buy a MACHINE if you donīt want one.

On the occasions where I do need to create a programmed synth sound in advance, I can program it into a knobby synth much faster than I can program it into a menu-based board. Same for programming in effects. With the real knobs, and the ability to easily go back and forth among the different controls and quickly tweak while you listen, it so much more efficient, and fun. Direct manipulation knobs rather than menu diving makes it feel more like operating an instrument and less like programming a computer. Even simply assembling any splits/layers I might need, their relative volumes, octave transposition, pedal assignments... quicker and more fun on a Nord Stage than on a Yamaha or Korg workstation. (Though Kronos got better after OS 3.1.) And as analogika said, there can also be a benefit to actually finding/assembling/tweaking these sounds during band rehearsal, as you play, in the context of what everyone else is playing. I've occasionally done that too. Depends on the band and the repertoire. Fun and efficient on a Nord, not something I'd want to do on a Kronos.

Originally Posted By: Al Coda
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
FInally, sometimes you do get a sense of something you'd unexpectedly like to tweak at the gig, and if you don't have the control, you don't bother, but it would be nice if you could easily do it.
Unexpectedly ...
What shall that be when you prepared your performance well ?

Your answer gets back to my first point... for that band, I hardly prepare. For the majority of songs that band does, I chart the chords, write out key riffs I need to play, make a note of which sounds I need... and the first time I play the song on the board I'm gigging with is actually at the gig. But that's not what I was talking about with this point, because that's "expected" stuff and here I was talking about "unexpected." For example, inspiration, which also gets back to analogika's scenario, not just for rehearsals, but even for gigs. An idea that comes to you as you're playing, that this part might sound nice if I... whatever. Bring in a different sound. Try a different effect. I understand, there are people who want to play everything the same way every time, but that's not everyone's approach, and if you like the idea of being able to mix things up on a whim, facilities for easy manipulations can be welcome. Or maybe it's not inspiration, maybe it's circumstance. Again, analogika's post, about something not sounding right in a room, or through the supplied sound system, whatever. Maybe you're playing with subs who are using sounds that don't mesh as well with your usual sounds. In a nutshell, these kinds of controls come in handy when you may not want to play something with exactly the sounds you used the time before, for whatever reason. You could get by with them, but you'd rather not.

Originally Posted By: Al Coda
I always assign 1 expression pedal to MIDI CC04 for "filter" (or other) modulation and then I have the wheels and the other expression pedal in addition

So what if you want something other than one of the 4 or so real-time controls you've programmed your wheels and pedals for? There's a real benefit to dedicated, well-placed, well-labeled knobs, with no programming required, always available. You don't have to decide before you get to the gig which parameters you might want to alter while you play a particular patch. You don't have sliders that are zone volume controls on patch A, drawbars on patch B, synth envelope controls on patch C, effects parameters on patch D, where you have to remember what slider does what and when... which means, for many people, you end up manipulating the same few things, or not doing any of it and just leaving everything as it was set at home. This is the kind of thing that makes the Nord Stage popular. These Yamahas don't have all that, but they do appear to give you quick, useful access to a lot of very useful functions.

I'm no trying to convince you that you need knobiness. Probably most people don't, at least based on how many non-knobby boards people buy. I'm just trying to show how there can still be a benefit, even if you have boards with presets. And btw, I've done tons of gigs without any such "hands-on" boards. It's just more fun when I have those controls.
Posted By: Dockeys

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/17/19 07:30 AM

Just looking at the spec for the CP73, seems some people are suggesting its the same action as the Montage 8...not so sure. Montage is listed as Balanced Hammer Effect Keyboard (Initial Touch/Aftertouch), while the CP73 is BHS (Balanced Hammer Standard) keyboard: matte black keytops. Maybe the difference between hammer effect and hammer standard is lack of Initial Touch/Aftertouch?

I think the Balanced Hammer Effect Keyboard has been used in previous iterations of the Motif 88, Motif ES/XS as well as the S90 and S90ES? I always loved gigging with that action but the S90/ES were the only semi portable versions that allowed me to play that live. I'll defer to those who have played the CP73 and think this might be a lovely board to play live if the action is very close to the Montage 8.
Posted By: M_G

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/17/19 08:58 AM


Pretty cool boards......

It seems the CP88 has all the features I missed on my CP4
and miss on my Grandstage.

Can't wait to test one!
Posted By: mountainjammer

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/17/19 09:03 AM

Yet the part i loved most of cp4, all its buttoms on the fromt still make it the perfect lower manuall in a setup..

like like
Posted By: Outkaster

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/17/19 09:41 AM

I hope Dave Ferris chimes in. His Facebook post talked about these new boards.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/17/19 10:03 AM

Originally Posted By: Dockeys
Just looking at the spec for the CP73, seems some people are suggesting its the same action as the Montage 8...not so sure. Montage is listed as Balanced Hammer Effect Keyboard (Initial Touch/Aftertouch), while the CP73 is BHS (Balanced Hammer Standard) keyboard: matte black keytops. Maybe the difference between hammer effect and hammer standard is lack of Initial Touch/Aftertouch?

Nope. "Initial Touch" is Yamaha's term for velocity sensitive, and the CP is certainly that. And the same actions can be implemented with or without aftertouch... Yamaha used the BHE without aftertouch on the MO8. So BHS is something new. The acronym actually makes me think it cold be a balanced (not graded) version of the GHS, but the reports of it feeling similar to a Montage 8 give me some cause for more optimism than that.
Posted By: jefsco

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/17/19 11:36 AM

Originally Posted By: Outkaster
I hope Dave Ferris chimes in. His Facebook post talked about these new boards.

Yes! We need Mr CP4ís thoughts on the replacements. wink

Maybe Dave will go to NAMM and demo the new CPs.
Posted By: Al Coda

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/17/19 11:46 AM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott

One of my bands has a repertoire of hundreds of songs,...


tl:dr ...
In short,- I donīt dislike that keyboard design per sť.

I only dislike as a bottom tier keyboard because Iīd like to have both actions of bottom tier- and top tier keyboard as close as possible together.
And in my rigs, the heavy piano action keyboard was the bottom tier instrument always up to now.

OTOH, I find the 73 model ideal for stacking on top of a (console) organ.

A.C.
Posted By: Adan

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/17/19 11:57 AM

THe P121 is 22 lbs, plastic body, external power supply, almost no surface hardware. The CP73 is 28 lbs with aluminum body, internal supply, and a fair amount of switches and dials. This would suggest that if the CP73 isn't just a balanced version of GHS, it's at least very similar in terms of weight of the mechanism.

Anyway, we'll see soon enough. But my enthusiasm for the CP73 would take a big hit if the action felt closer to GHS than Montage.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/17/19 12:28 PM

Originally Posted By: Al Coda

In short,- I donīt dislike that keyboard design per sť.
I only dislike as a bottom tier keyboard because Iīd like to have both actions of bottom tier- and top tier keyboard as close as possible together.

I agree with you about that. Extensive control surfaces work best on top tiers, or in single-board rigs. Though to some extent, that can also be addressed by a design with a more vertical control surface, like Korg SV1.
Posted By: Roland_Guy

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/17/19 12:30 PM

cp73 and modx 6 is what i am lining up as my next rig. been a while since i rigged yamaha. ok so korg showed us what they got # krome ex and kronos es, yamaha showed us the cp73 and 88.....now Roland my old friend, please show us that v synth sequal i need.

i miss the old Roland.
Posted By: Legatoboy

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/17/19 12:48 PM

Dave is diggin the P-151 for home use moreso I believe. I think he prefers the more low-profile look and function of the CP4.
Posted By: Dave Ferris

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/17/19 04:21 PM

Originally Posted By: Jazz+
Is this new thingy the best sounding digital piano ever? Better than CP4?


We've talked about how you tube keyboard videos shouldn't be taken as the final word -- but fwiw I dunno, based on the little I've heard so far, I'm still liking my CP4 CFX and maybe even the CP5 CF as much or better. I'm hearing a bit of a synthetic, processed quality to the CP88/73 pianos over my speakers and DAC here. Of course things might sound and feel completely different and more positive hands on, in person. Direct recordings can be deceiving. I've learned that with 4 years of Nord Pianos. wink

One thing for sure -- I certainly wouldn't benefit from all the instant tweaking capabilities. In my world, futzing with parameters during comping or soloing on Stablemates at 130 = half note, is not something I'm looking for and would be distracting to say the least. wink

And to return to this -- definitely prefer the P-515 over my CP4, again at least here. It has more warmth, body and is less electronic sounding. Very nice playing.



Hopefully the CP4 fits in the new CP88 case, those look nice.

Borrowing a line from Moe-- maybe I'll feel free to be more impressed next week at NAMM. grin poke keys
Posted By: Legatoboy

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/17/19 05:13 PM

Does anyone know if the P-515 keybed is 3 sensor?
Posted By: jefsco

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/17/19 06:00 PM

Originally Posted By: Legatoboy
Does anyone know if the P-515 keybed is 3 sensor?

When i researched before purchase, i had in my spreadsheet that it was triple sensor.
Do not remember the source though, as Yamaha doesnít specify on their site.
To repeat a note you have to let the key about halfway up, without the previous struck note going quiet.
According to posts iíve seen from anotherscott, that would be triple sensor behavior.

Very odd that Yamaha does not specify on site though.
Posted By: Mark Schmieder

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/17/19 06:12 PM

Ah, good clarification. o triple sensor can let you play some of the techniques that normally would require escapement, if you simply adjust your technique a bit and get used to the timing of the sensors in the keybed?
Posted By: scales

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/17/19 07:34 PM

I agree with Dave on sounding a tad bit digital. But definitely will be checking out.
That P-515 sounds beautiful. Wish I could find one of those to demo.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/17/19 09:25 PM

Originally Posted By: jefsco
To repeat a note you have to let the key about halfway up, without the previous struck note going quiet.
According to posts iíve seen from anotherscott, that would be triple sensor behavior.

Yes, if you can lift the key enough to restrike the note without it going silent in between (when the pedal is not down), that's triple sensor behavior. It doesn't have to be "halfway" though... that can vary. PianoManChuck had a good video that showed the triple sensor behavior on a Casio and a Kawai, and how the Kawai let you retrigger from a much lower point than the Casio. But both were three-sensor.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/18/19 11:16 AM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
if you want bass on the left and anything other than a piano/EP category sound on the right, you may be out of luck. So maybe not the best choice as a single board for a LH bass player.

Correcting that, there's an Advanced Mode that lets you play any sound from any section, so any combination is possible. I don't think there's any way to pan the sounds to their own outputs, though.
Posted By: Outkaster

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/18/19 01:06 PM

What I would wonder about is since so many people have a hard on for the Nord line and then Nord having that market locked down how well will Yamaha do? As I said they can stand on their own two legs but I have been reading the above comments. I am a big fan of Yamaha and always have been but it might be a hard market to break into as the Nord is the IPhone of the keyboard world. It's a tough call.....
Posted By: ElmerJFudd

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/18/19 01:11 PM

Not everyone likes Nord (Fatar) actions or prices.
And many people who do not like Yamaha for their user interfaces will welcome the new approach.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/18/19 01:43 PM

Here's the sound breakdown (including the downloadable update):

Grand Pianos (5)
Upright Pianos (2)
CP80 Pianos (2)
Layered Pianos (2)
Rhodes (5)
Wulri (3)
Clav (2)
Harpsi
DX/FM Pianos (6)
Pads (4) (incl. "air choir")
Strings (4) (incl OB synth strings)
Drawbar organs (5)
Transistor organs (3)
Pipe organs (2)
Glock
Vibes
Xylophone
Marimba
Other bells/chromatic percussion (3)
Lead synths (2)
Bass (3) (acoustic, electric, synth)
Guitar (2) (steel, clean)
Synth brass

The next sound update is scheduled for September.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/18/19 01:51 PM

Originally Posted By: Outkaster
What I would wonder about is since so many people have a hard on for the Nord line and then Nord having that market locked down how well will Yamaha do? As I said they can stand on their own two legs but I have been reading the above comments. I am a big fan of Yamaha and always have been but it might be a hard market to break into as the Nord is the IPhone of the keyboard world. It's a tough call.....

As Elmer said, action (TBD) and price ($1000 less than hammer action Electro on the 73, $500 less than Nord Piano on the 88). But other differences could sway someone one way or the other...

Other Yamaha advantages: 4-zone MIDI controller functions, pitch and mod controls, more instant patch recall buttons, more split/layer flexibility.

Nord advantages: wider range of different pianos, more complete clav emulation, much larger selection of non-piano sounds, ability to load your own samples (and, on the Electro, the clonewhel organ action; on the Nord Piano, the triple pedal).
Posted By: jimkost2002

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/18/19 01:51 PM

Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Not everyone likes Nord (Fatar) actions or prices.
And many people who do not like Yamaha for their user interfaces will welcome the new approach.


Who knows yet, Elmer.... these new Yamahas might be the best of both worlds.
If youíre willing to use a seperate clonewheel for organ duties more intensive than pads....<shrug>
Posted By: Legatoboy

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/18/19 02:03 PM

Thanks jefsco, I thought it was just me... Yamaha really counts every little attribute to define their products and lines...if they give you this you don't get THAT (No Soup For You).... so it wouldn't surprise me if it's not...I like the 515 and I always felt their stage/home pianos gave you a better piano playing experience than many of their flagships with good pianos like the Motif and I hate to say it the Montage (maybe?!!)...the Montage piano played very well I must say, I've been hittin it at GC here on lunch hours ... but not sure how the symp. resonance and all actually stacks up ... I would think the 515 is better with that Piano Room function or whatever it's called!

Originally Posted By: jefsco
Originally Posted By: Legatoboy
Does anyone know if the P-515 keybed is 3 sensor?

When i researched before purchase, i had in my spreadsheet that it was triple sensor.
Do not remember the source though, as Yamaha doesnít specify on their site.
To repeat a note you have to let the key about halfway up, without the previous struck note going quiet.
According to posts iíve seen from anotherscott, that would be triple sensor behavior.

Very odd that Yamaha does not specify on site though.

Posted By: Adan

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/18/19 02:08 PM

I've given this keyboard some thought over the past few days -- probably more than it deserves. The more I think about it, the less it makes sense.

It's not a good all-in-one keyboard. The "other" section is too weak in general for that, and I don't expect a vast transformation through updates.

So this is really for two types of folks: 1) those who will pair it with other keyboards, and 2) those who will use it primarily for piano.

If you're pairing with other keyboards, then you really something strong on both organ and synth, because the CP is weak on both. For me, my second keyboard has to be a clonewheel, but that still leaves even basic synth duties unfilled. So now I have to think about at least another module or laptop, and then I've got the sort of complicated setup I try to avoid. And then you've got the further problem of how to position the top board over the CP.

As a broad generalization, folks who just need a good piano don't need all the surface controls. They're generally not changing effects and engaging delay in the middle of a performance. They'll get better bang for buck with a more conventional slab.

What I'd really like to see is a Yamaha CP4-73, weighing in at about 32 lbs. But that won't happen.
Posted By: jimkost2002

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/18/19 02:14 PM

Originally Posted By: Adan
I've given this keyboard some thought over the past few days -- probably more than it deserves. The more I think about it, the less it makes sense.

It's not a good all-in-one keyboard. The "other" section is too weak in general for that, and I don't expect a vast transformation through updates.

So this is really for two types of folks: 1) those who will pair it with other keyboards, and 2) those who will use it primarily for piano.

If you're pairing with other keyboards, then you really something strong on both organ and synth, because the CP is weak on both. For me, my second keyboard has to be a clonewheel, but that still leaves even basic synth duties unfilled. So now I have to think about at least another module or laptop, and then I've got the sort of complicated setup I try to avoid. And then you've got the further problem of how to position the top board over the CP.

As a broad generalization, folks who just need a good piano don't need all the surface controls. They're generally not changing effects and engaging delay in the middle of a performance. They'll get better bang for buck with a more conventional slab.

What I'd really like to see is a Yamaha CP4-73, weighing in at about 32 lbs. But that won't happen.


Yeah, Adan, it IS a piano-centric board. But it seems to be Yamahaís answer to botb Nord and to the Korg SV-1.
If it gives me what the SV-1 has with a good Yamaha action, then itíll make me and quite a few others happy.
Posted By: Rusty Mike

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/18/19 02:30 PM

Many people are loyal to brands, and want to stay within those brands. It's possible that Yamaha sees this a filling a hole for the Yamaha loyal who are interested in the Nord Piano/Electro or Korg Grandstage/SV-1.

Its ultimate companion would be a high quality synth/clonewheel combo. Kind of like a Nord Stage without the piano section or the Roland VR09/730 that had better capability and quality.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/18/19 02:54 PM

Originally Posted By: Adan
It's not a good all-in-one keyboard. The "other" section is too weak in general for that, and I don't expect a vast transformation through updates.

So this is really for two types of folks: 1) those who will pair it with other keyboards, and 2) those who will use it primarily for piano.

If you're pairing with other keyboards, then you really something strong on both organ and synth, because the CP is weak on both. ...
As a broad generalization, folks who just need a good piano don't need all the surface controls... They'll get better bang for buck with a more conventional slab.


I see your point, but picking up on Jim's post, you can say much the same thing about the SV1 and Nord Piano, and about your Crumar Seven. None of these boards make for great single boards unless your needs are pretty basic, but they all have their devotees... the proof will be in the playing, I guess. In all cases, someone could want a second tier to fill both the clonewheel and synth duties, but there are numerous boards that can do that to at least a reasonable extent, including Nord Stage 3, Kronos 61, Roland VR-09/VR-730, Kurzwil Artis 7, and your Vox Continental. I understand, you're more clonewheel-demanding, but these others are sufficient for many people.
Posted By: Adan

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/18/19 03:28 PM

One of the brilliant things about the Crumar Seven is that you can plop another keyboard on top. I'd like to see more manufacturer's following that lead. It's not rocket science, people were doing it a half century ago. Yamaha did it with the CP300.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/18/19 03:37 PM

Originally Posted By: Adan
One of the brilliant things about the Crumar Seven is that you can plop another keyboard on top. I'd like to see more manufacturer's following that lead. It's not rocket science, people were doing it a half century ago. Yamaha did it with the CP300.

I like that too, though it does limit you to designs with somewhat minimal control surfaces.
Posted By: ChazKeys

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/18/19 04:16 PM

A couple of things I donít get:

1 - Update for new sounds is going to be September 2019
2 - CP73 action is designed to be closer to playing an electric piano.

1 - well that is a long time to wait. Nord are constantly adding to their library. Putting a date on it seems strange and why is it so far in the future?

https://usa.yamaha.com/products/music_production/synthesizers/cp88_73/update.html#product-tabs

2 - which EP are we talking about. My EP200a has a lovely action - fast and light. My Rhodes suitcase is the complete opposite - heavy and sluggish. Maybe they mean the CP70/80?
Posted By: Polkahero

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/18/19 04:27 PM

I think combining the CP73 with a killer organ module such as the HX3 would make a great albeit somewhat still compromised all in one board solution for many people. It's always a compromise when using only one board for piano/organ material.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/18/19 04:28 PM

Originally Posted By: ChazKeys

2 - CP73 action is designed to be closer to playing an electric piano.
...
which EP are we talking about. My EP200a has a lovely action - fast and light. My Rhodes suitcase is the complete opposite - heavy and sluggish. Maybe they mean the CP70/80?

I think they simply mean by virtue of it being a balanced as opposed to graded hammer action.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/18/19 04:30 PM

Originally Posted By: Polkahero
I think combining the CP73 with a killer organ module such as the HX3 would make a great albeit somewhat still compromised all in one board solution for many people.

Or a Gemini module, which would give you more of the non-organ sounds you might also be looking for.
Posted By: ElmerJFudd

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/18/19 04:39 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: Polkahero
I think combining the CP73 with a killer organ module such as the HX3 would make a great albeit somewhat still compromised all in one board solution for many people.

Or a Gemini module, which would give you more of the non-organ sounds you might also be looking for.


If the organ is the major concern, I'd be inclined to take a look at the Viscount Legend EXP maybe as a pairing for the CP73. Or if you want another set of keys any controller and a laptop or the Gemini.
Posted By: jimkost2002

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/18/19 04:50 PM

Originally Posted By: ChazKeys
A couple of things I donít get:

2 - CP73 action is designed to be closer to playing an electric piano

2 - which EP are we talking about. My EP200a has a lovely action - fast and light. My Rhodes suitcase is the complete opposite - heavy and sluggish. Maybe they mean the CP70/80?


I suspect they mean any well maintained backlined or Studio Rhodes or Wurli.
The Sigma Sound Rhodes thatís been sampled and modeled everywhere, for example.
Or any Piano worked on by a tech the caliber of Chris Carroll or Ken Rich.
Posted By: Mjazz

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/18/19 05:12 PM

The CP88 looks interesting, but having read the promotional materials and looked at the owner's manual, I don't think it is or was intended to be a successor to the CP4. (For example, from what I can tell, a lot of the CP4's adjustable parameters seem to be gone.) The CP88 is a very different thing.

So why has Yamaha (apparently) discontinued the CP4? Or is that maybe just a temporary thing, to "clear the runway," so to speak, for the CP88?
Posted By: Sundown

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/18/19 05:19 PM

I'm glad to see Yamaha doing new product, but I don't like the front panels, some of the switch gear, or the overall styling. That's a preference thing, but it's not my style. I also don't like the pitch/mod controls. Moog-style wheels are the way to go.
Posted By: Al Quinn

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/18/19 05:43 PM

Originally Posted By: Adan
So this is really for two types of folks: 1) those who will pair it with other keyboards, and 2) those who will use it primarily for piano.

I see those two plus a third: a lightweight 73-key midi controller with very good action and internal sounds to carry on should something go wrong with the laptop. I'm hoping it scratches this itch.

I could also see myself using it with the HX3 Expander module. That would be a nice lightweight rig for some gigs.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/18/19 06:20 PM

Originally Posted By: ChazKeys
You have to menu dive into Advanced Mode - so not easy to control you zones in realtime.


The "MIDI Control = Invert" option may be an answer. When a section is not activated, its knobs send MIDI. I don't think you can change what MIDI they send, but whatever they send, you may be able to remap on the receiving end to accomplish the zone control you want.
Posted By: burningbusch

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/18/19 06:42 PM

Originally Posted By: ChazKeys
A couple of things I donít get:

1 - Update for new sounds is going to be September 2019
2 - CP73 action is designed to be closer to playing an electric piano.

1 - well that is a long time to wait. Nord are constantly adding to their library. Putting a date on it seems strange and why is it so far in the future?

https://usa.yamaha.com/products/music_production/synthesizers/cp88_73/update.html#product-tabs

2 - which EP are we talking about. My EP200a has a lovely action - fast and light. My Rhodes suitcase is the complete opposite - heavy and sluggish. Maybe they mean the CP70/80?


Neither the Rhodes nor Wurly 200A utilize key weights (I'm positive on the Rhodes and nearly positive on the Wurly but mine isn't set up at the moment). The keys are just wood, so they will have uniform weight throughout. The hammers of the Rhodes (neoprene, not Sparkletop felt) are virtually all the same and there's no appreciable mass difference. The 200a does use somewhat more massive felt in the bass vs. treble but I don't think it makes much of a difference in the weighted feel of the keys. The dampers on both pianos are uniform across all keys, as I recall. So, there's a big difference between these actions and an acoustic piano. They are much more balanced and I believe the CP73 is going to incorporate the balanced action as found in the Montage 8. Also, the bounce you find with the Rhodes is the result of the lack of back check, an important part of an acoustic piano action.

Busch.
Posted By: Dreamchilde

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/18/19 07:56 PM

Ok, I take it back. The more I see on the board, but more I'm considering it. Can't wait to check it out at NAMM.
Posted By: Jazz+

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/18/19 08:00 PM

OT: I can't wait to see the new slimmer (lighter?19 lbs ?) Privias.
Posted By: Al Coda

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/18/19 10:15 PM

Originally Posted By: Adan
One of the brilliant things about the Crumar Seven is that you can plop another keyboard on top. I'd like to see more manufacturer's following that lead.


like

A.C.
Posted By: Al Coda

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/18/19 10:36 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott

I like that too, though it does limit you to designs with somewhat minimal control surfaces.


No,- it does limit a manufacturer to more clever and probably harder to manufacture case designs.
And yes, those will be somewhat larger and will come w/ some lbs more of weight.
But then, you donīt have to think that much about which stand to use.
For a flat-top keyboard, 4 solid legs or a z-stand are reliable and stable solutions where you just only put another keyboard on top,- and it also looks great.

A.C.
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/18/19 11:05 PM

BHS ďstandardĒ action on the CP73 doesnít sound like Montage BHE quality, Busch.
And no sympathetic resonance ...
Posted By: ElmerJFudd

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/18/19 11:57 PM

Great walk through from our mate at Bonnerís.

Posted By: jefsco

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/19/19 01:24 AM


PMT with Luke Juby


Posted By: Theo Verelst

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/19/19 01:19 PM

I've listened to the first few demos, of course having normal interest in Yamaha's stage pianos. Now, apart from the luckily CP4 not looking like "look at me and my stupid synthesizer, look, it's got retard colors!" and obvious ergonomics, what sold me on the CP range (having been dubbed "the best stage piano ever" by Yamaha themselves) was the Spectral Component Modelling and the promise it would be able to be programmed like a pro instrument.

I don't think the sound of this new piano interests me much from the demos I've heard. Very much it's possible it allows "tuning" the sound setups like I eventually get done on the CP4, so that the sound becomes usable for pro mixing, instead of yet another obligate sampler sound with all it's mind numbing limitations and pre-programmed effects.

T.
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/19/19 01:35 PM

Originally Posted By: Al Coda
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott

I like that too, though it does limit you to designs with somewhat minimal control surfaces.


No,- it does limit a manufacturer to more clever and probably harder to manufacture case designs.
And yes, those will be somewhat larger and will come w/ some lbs more of weight.
But then, you donīt have to think that much about which stand to use.
For a flat-top keyboard, 4 solid legs or a z-stand are reliable and stable solutions where you just only put another keyboard on top,- and it also looks great.

A.C.
for me, your negatives list exceeds your positives list. I donít want my board design limited that much to accommodate vertical stacking. Just me ... or not - it seems manufacturers donít find enough buyers that value ability to stack over actual additional functional keyboard features and functions.
Posted By: Al Coda

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/19/19 02:58 PM

Originally Posted By: MotiDave
for me, your negatives list exceeds your positives list. I donít want my board design limited that much to accommodate vertical stacking.


LOL,- the 3 section design of the CPs is already a big limitation vs. technically deeper machines where itīs imposible to provide single knobs and buttons for every parameter.
Even the sound engine sounds good to my ears,- these tiny cheapo pitchbend- and modulation sticks alone make these instruments a no-go for me.

A.C.
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/19/19 03:07 PM

Originally Posted By: Al Coda
Originally Posted By: MotiDave
for me, your negatives list exceeds your positives list. I donít want my board design limited that much to accommodate vertical stacking.


LOL,- the 3 section design of the CPs is already a big limitation vs. technically deeper machines where itīs imposible to provide single knobs and buttons for every parameter.
Even the sound engine sounds good to my ears,- these tiny cheapo pitchbend- and modulation sticks alone make these instruments a no-go for me.

A.C.
to me its a stage piano. I donít pitch bend piano, personally. I wouldnít buy it for synth, strings, etc etc etc any of the secondary functions. thats a different utility knife entirely imo.

I just meant i wouldnít want a board to be heavier, bigger, less interface options, just to create a gaint flat top space i can stack another board atop. Thatís just me. And i guess the majority of the world market, as if the world wanted big heavy keyboards with large flat tops, producers would respond.
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/19/19 04:53 PM

Now if only that CP73 action would play heavenly...
Posted By: ElmerJFudd

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/19/19 05:34 PM

Originally Posted By: Fleer
Now if only that CP73 action would play heavenly...


At its weight it only has to be on par with the Medelli in the SP6, TP-100 in light Nords, Feel G from Roland on an FA or DS, a Krome from Korg (their Grandstage 73 is over 35lbs) and Casioís action. Kawaiís ES-110 action is decent but itís hardly as capable as a CP73.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/19/19 07:07 PM

Originally Posted By: Al Coda
these tiny cheapo pitchbend- and modulation sticks alone make these instruments a no-go for me.
Even though I haven't felt them personally, I am confident that they are a heck of a lot better than the ones on the Nord Electro, Hammond SK1, Korg SV1...
Posted By: Jazz+

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/19/19 07:26 PM

So, does the Grand Piano 1 in these new CPs sound better thatn in CP4 ??? And the Rhodes classic is now better?
Posted By: davedoerfler

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/19/19 07:40 PM

Originally Posted By: Jazz+
So, does the Grand Piano 1 in these new CPs sound better thatn in CP4 ??? And the Rhodes classic is now better?


I guess that depends on how one defines "better". smile
Posted By: Al Coda

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/19/19 11:16 PM

Originally Posted By: MotiDave

to me its a stage piano. I donít pitch bend piano, personally. I wouldnít buy it for synth, strings, etc etc etc any of the secondary functions. thats a different utility knife entirely imo.[/quote9

No, everything offering USB and DIN-MIDI I/O & Thru is also a MIDI controller.
If you pitchbend internal piano sounds or not doesnīt matter.

[quote=MotiDave]
I just meant i wouldnít want a board to be heavier, bigger, less interface options, just to create a gaint flat top space i can stack another board atop. Thatís just me. And i guess the majority of the world market, as if the world wanted big heavy keyboards with large flat tops, producers would respond.


Waldorf Zarenbourgh, Crumar Seven ARE DPs w/ flat tops, but just only examples for the case design I mean.
Even a KORG SV-1 technically could have a flat top when there werenīt that "cigar" type design w/ the rounded edges they prefered because of stylish fashion.

I also donīt want a large flat top urgently.
Itīs enough the flat top supports the front of a 2nd keyboard while the rear might sit on a support bar.
Think of the H/S XK3c or Crumar Mojo61 cases.
Itīs all about getting the keys of 2 boards together as close as possible and have the most important controls of the bottom board in front of you.
But when someone wants a dedicated slider/ knob/ button for every parameter, that doesnīt work.

Anyway,- itīs not for me it seems.
I remember the times I used a Minimoog, Prophet 5 and DX7 in a USS A-frame stand and it always felt uncomfortable because I had to leave that space between the keyboards for recognizing the displays and operating the knobs on DX7 and Prophet 5.

My main interface are the keys, not the knobs, sliders and buttons.
I play w/ both hands, jump between manuals and need short distances to do that at almost every tempo.
I donīt do single-board gigs since decades anymore.
But who knows ... maybe again in a few years when Iīm retired.

A.C.
Posted By: Al Coda

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/19/19 11:20 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
... I am confident that they are a heck of a lot better than the ones on the Nord Electro, Hammond SK1, Korg SV1...


grin grin grin

A.C.
Posted By: Mighty Motif Max

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/19/19 11:23 PM

Originally Posted By: Al Coda
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
... I am confident that they are a heck of a lot better than the ones on the Nord Electro, Hammond SK1, Korg SV1...


grin grin grin

A.C.


laugh

Seems they stole those from Studiologic.
Posted By: keyboardologist

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/19/19 11:51 PM

Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
At its weight it only has to be on par with the Medelli in the SP6, TP-100 in light Nords, Feel G from Roland on an FA or DS, a Krome from Korg (their Grandstage 73 is over 35lbs) and Casioís action. Kawaiís ES-110 action is decent but itís hardly as capable as a CP73.

I totally agree. My ES110's action is decent. Adding pitch/mod, a lot of buttons and straight parameters, alongside with some all-around sounds, effects, eq, drive, ADSR, etc is the way to go. Hope again for the action.
Also hoping some sounds can be a little edited. Like lead sound character, or brass brightness, or pad contour...
Posted By: jimkost2002

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/20/19 08:18 AM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: Al Coda
these tiny cheapo pitchbend- and modulation sticks alone make these instruments a no-go for me.
Even though I haven't felt them personally, I am confident that they are a heck of a lot better than the ones on the Nord Electro, Hammond SK1, Korg SV1...



At first I was with you on the pitchbend/mod levers, Al, but I realized Yamaha took them from the Reface CS and I then remebered that those levers were the only things I liked about the CS. Like you, Iím a wheel guy, but I adoptedto those levers quite happily.

I like to pitch bend EPs and most especially Clav and Iím thinking those levers will make whammy bar efx and quick bends easy to execute.
Posted By: keyguy

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/20/19 09:19 AM

That new cp88 case is $350. I'll keep my Gator...
Posted By: ElmerJFudd

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/20/19 12:06 PM

Originally Posted By: keyguy
That new cp88 case is $350. I'll keep my Gator...


Nord charges $400 for their branded wheeled cases. But yes, a $150-200 Gator will do the trick.
Posted By: halhertz

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/20/19 12:14 PM

I'm not sure how much I like the CP88. The UI is very cool but the tone generation tech is underwhelming. The action is OK but definitely nothing special.

If I had to buy a stage piano in the next 2 months, I'd probably get either the similarly priced RD2000 (+100) or the MP11SE (+300). Especially If I will use it in the studio for the most part and not have to move it often.

The CP88 is still a very good option for the gigging musician who is always on the move and needs something more portable. Having said, the RD2000 weighs only 6lbs (47lbs vs 41lbs) more than the CP88, but the action and tone generation tech in it is in my mind better than what's in the CP88.
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/20/19 12:50 PM

Same thinking here, and you can get an RD-2000 for Ä2000 in Europe.
Posted By: keyboardologist

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/20/19 01:21 PM

Originally Posted By: Fleer
Same thinking here, and you can get an RD-2000 for Ä2000 in Europe.

OK, but 141cm on 21.7kgs (RD2000) vs 130cm on 18.6kgs (CP88) makes a big difference. GrandStage 88 is 131cm on 20kgs, Nord Piano 129cm on 18.5kgs, etc...

Although I believe CP88 is not the ulimate SP depending anyone's need, CP73 is the step forward for the compact 73/76 hammer-action stage pianos! I don't see something basic missing here.
OK it has a few all-around sounds, but categories are wider than NPs or NEs, real-time editing is good, pitch/mod, come on!

I see it's not for anyone's taste, but it's definately for someone like me! My back is everytime in pain on carrying heavy things around.
Only crossing fingers for the action, waiting to test it personally and if its a decent responsive action, I will sell my most other gear to buy the CP73.
Posted By: ElmerJFudd

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/20/19 02:06 PM

Originally Posted By: halhertz
I'm not sure how much I like the CP88. The UI is very cool but the tone generation tech is underwhelming. The action is OK but definitely nothing special.

If I had to buy a stage piano in the next 2 months, I'd probably get either the similarly priced RD2000 (+100) or the MP11SE (+300). Especially If I will use it in the studio for the most part and not have to move it often.

The CP88 is still a very good option for the gigging musician who is always on the move and needs something more portable. Having said, the RD2000 weighs only 6lbs (47lbs vs 41lbs) more than the CP88, but the action and tone generation tech in it is in my mind better than what's in the CP88.


I found the action on the RD-2000 a little slow on the return swing. Itís a great bread and butter stage piano. The tech is very similar to the Yamaha with the exception of modeled pianos which are decent but arguably not as bodiful as many sampled examples. Lots of choices these days. None of them suck.
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/20/19 02:20 PM

Originally Posted By: keyboardologist
Originally Posted By: Fleer
Same thinking here, and you can get an RD-2000 for Ä2000 in Europe.

OK, but 141cm on 21.7kgs (RD2000) vs 130cm on 18.6kgs (CP88) makes a big difference. GrandStage 88 is 131cm on 20kgs, Nord Piano 129cm on 18.5kgs, etc...

Although I believe CP88 is not the ulimate SP depending anyone's need, CP73 is the step forward for the compact 73/76 hammer-action stage pianos! I don't see something basic missing here.
OK it has a few all-around sounds, but categories are wider than NPs or NEs, real-time editing is good, pitch/mod, come on!

I see it's not for anyone's taste, but it's definately for someone like me! My back is everytime in pain on carrying heavy things around.
Only crossing fingers for the action, waiting to test it personally and if its a decent responsive action, I will sell my most other gear to buy the CP73.

Anxiously waiting myself too.
But as for the CP73, I still think Korgís GrandStage is the one to beat, definitely at under Ä1650 Bax was selling it only last week.
Posted By: keyboardologist

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/20/19 02:49 PM

Originally Posted By: Fleer
Anxiously waiting myself too.
But as for the CP73, I still think Korgís GrandStage is the one to beat, definitely at under Ä1650 Bax was selling it only last week.

But the Korg's weight is already beaten! 17kgs vs 13kgs.
Korg has definately the more sounds advantage, 500 vs 57 and more menus (this is good and bad), so it's a matter of taste and prefers.

CP73 will be for Ä1799 on thomann, so if you can wait some months it'll be both close.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/20/19 03:09 PM

Originally Posted By: halhertz
If I had to buy a stage piano in the next 2 months, I'd probably get either the similarly priced RD2000 (+100) or the MP11SE (+300). Especially If I will use it in the studio for the most part and not have to move it often.

The CP88 is still a very good option for the gigging musician who is always on the move and needs something more portable. Having said, the RD2000 weighs only 6lbs (47lbs vs 41lbs) more than the CP88, but the action and tone generation tech in it is in my mind better than what's in the CP88.

It's all about the dedicated controls. If you don't need that, the P515 gives you better action (escapement), better piano sound (resonance), a lot more sounds (about 500), at a lower price (and a lot lower than the RD2000).

Of course, there's also the advantage of their offering a low weight 73.

Originally Posted By: keyboardologist
OK it has a few all-around sounds, but categories are wider than NPs or NEs

Not really. The Nord sample library includes more categories of sound than what's in the CP. You get get brass, winds, reeds, etc. and vintage keyboards like mellotrons and so forth. OTOH, at least the board's strong MIDI zone functions (unlike on those Nords) means you should be able to fill in the gaps pretty easily with an iPhone/iPad, for example.
Posted By: keyboardologist

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/20/19 03:51 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Not really. The Nord sample library includes more categories of sound than what's in the CP. You get get brass, winds, reeds, etc. and vintage keyboards like mellotrons and so forth. OTOH, at least the board's strong MIDI zone functions (unlike on those Nords) means you should be able to fill in the gaps pretty easily with an iPhone/iPad, for example.

You are right, although NP's Organ (from samples) may be really limited and NE's HP action does not overcome what CP73 might have to offer.

I think we can talk forever on pros and cons. If the CP73 was 10kgs and had 500 sounds, it will be something of the "future" dream come true. But this will come at another cost, maybe plastic body, or menu editing. I can't blame Yamaha for their decision, because I will gladly be compromised with the CP73 package features at the price offered. That's personally me and hope not only me.
Posted By: ElmerJFudd

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/20/19 04:04 PM

Thereís a reason weíre still here debating why models have this or that short coming, lack this or that feature or sound engine. Itís bad business to offer the kitchen sink on models that arenít priced as a flagship. The $2-2.5k CPs arenít going to have the FM-X engine or 1.75gb of user sample storage. They could, I wish they did. Just like I wish the Nord Electro had the A1 synth in it. Or that you could edit the Kronos engines on the Grandstage.

But at least competition from Nord drove Yamaha to build a model that has a one function per knob/switch user interface and offer new sounds post purchase via firmware updates.

If we want more, thatís what a module, tablet, laptop is for these days.
Posted By: Theo Verelst

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/20/19 06:37 PM

For me, certain specific DSP internals (which I have never heard from any PC program except my own (extremely complicated) Linux tools) are more important than the marketing hype and some trivialities. Alo, given the power use and the special chips in the CP4, it's likely there are actual musical powers in there a PC cannot deliver, and that not even taking latency into account.

Where these new machines reside on that chart of possibilities I don't know.

T.
Posted By: halhertz

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/20/19 06:48 PM

Anyone know what the Canadian pricing for the PC88 is? I asked my local dealer but he hasn't received any info yet.
Posted By: keyboardologist

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/20/19 08:55 PM

Originally Posted By: Theo Verelst
For me, certain specific DSP internals (which I have never heard from any PC program except my own (extremely complicated) Linux tools) are more important than the marketing hype and some trivialities. Alo, given the power use and the special chips in the CP4, it's likely there are actual musical powers in there a PC cannot deliver, and that not even taking latency into account.

Could you please say a little more on this? I don't want to go off-topic but it sounds interesting for an on-top synth, even on a CP73. PM me if you like.
Posted By: keyboardologist

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/21/19 08:02 PM

I really like what Yamaha is proposing for portables and synths/workstations:

P series: Good Action. Basic but Good Sounds. Limited Editing. Light Chassis for the Quality.
CPs: Good Action. Some Good Selected Sounds. Realtime easy Editing. Light Chassis but Durable.
MXs: Cheap Action. A Lot of Sounds and Menu Possibilities with some limited Realtime. Really Light Chassis.
MODXs: Better Action. More Sounds. More Menu Editing Possibilities. Better Realtime. Really Compact Chassis.
Montage: Full Package at heavy Chassis.

From the above, only the MX has a 49key chassis. The rest is well chosen. Only missing is the MX73, which I'd love to see as a graded hammer action, filling the only gap. But then it's an entry-level "synth". But MX88 is hammer. I'm confused.

Let's get back to CPs here. Why do Yamaha has to discontinue the CP4? And if yes, maybe CP88, MX88, MODX8, P515 do overlap most of its features? But I can still find S70XS and Motif Rack XS available for new! Really confused again.
Posted By: keyboardologist

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/21/19 08:06 PM

Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Just like I wish the Nord Electro had the A1 synth in it.

Electro+A1 is something really close to the Stage. That's an overlap! What Am I missing?
Posted By: keyboardologist

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/21/19 08:20 PM

Also, I see only two lightweight 73s with decent hammer action and they are both from Yamaha. P121 and CP73. I'm gonna buy both and celebrate the evolution!
Posted By: zephonic

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/21/19 08:36 PM

Originally Posted By: keyboardologist

MXs: Cheap Action. A Lot of Sounds and Menu Possibilities with some limited Realtime. Really Light Chassis.
MODXs: Better Action. More Sounds. More Menu Editing Possibilities. Better Realtime. Really Compact Chassis.


The MX88 and MODX8 have the same action.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/21/19 09:23 PM

Originally Posted By: keyboardologist
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Just like I wish the Nord Electro had the A1 synth in it.

Electro+A1 is something really close to the Stage. That's an overlap! What Am I missing?

How much more expensive it is than an Electro. ;-) NS3 also does a lot more, though...

...NS3 lets you process samples through the synth functions while the A1 does not (these include sounds from Nord's sample library, the built-in S-wave waveforms, and your own custom samples)
...NS3 has aftertouch
...NS3 has more polyphony (34 in the synth section vs 26 on the A1)
...NS3 has more effects available
...NS3 lets you play two sampled sounds (or two piano sounds) simultaneously
...NS3 includes support for external MIDI zones
...NS3 includes double the piano memory (2 GB vs 1)
plus some other stuff.

A1 does have a couple of things not on the NS3...
...A1 lets you split/layer 4 synth sounds, vs. 2 on the NS3
...A1 lets you morph based on velocity, NS3 does not
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/22/19 12:25 AM

Originally Posted By: keyboardologist
Also, I see only two lightweight 73s with decent hammer action and they are both from Yamaha. P121 and CP73. I'm gonna buy both and celebrate the evolution!

Letís hope the CP73 action (BHS) is a lot better than the P121 keybed, which is simply a shortened GHS version (as in both MX88 and MODX8).
Posted By: ElmerJFudd

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/22/19 12:27 AM

Yes, letís. like
Posted By: keyboardologist

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/22/19 05:55 AM



Originally Posted By: zephonic
The MX88 and MODX8 have the same action.

88keys yes, as also the P125, but synth type MX/MODX (49/61/76) I think no.
Also there is the cheap NP series, with light chassis, MXs keys, a few sounds, speakers and batteries.

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
How much more expensive it is than an Electro. ;-) NS3 also does a lot more, though...

If Electro has A1, the price would be way up. Sure there are differences, but as I said, really close. If you want a good ap/ep/organ and a good va, you usually end up on two keyboards or an all-around, I don't see a lot of interested in-between electro/stage, cause Electro is already overpriced for the features.
Posted By: Theo Verelst

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/22/19 08:49 AM

As a electrical engineer with interest in great fusion Jazz sounds from the proper days (of there is such thing) it makes me sad to hear people only go on about stuff that's not so terribly interesting or promising for serious musicians, working on their craft, and not some marketing scheme.

The electronics circuit modelling, the spectral component modelling, and the way a pro digital signal processing setup can be created with the Yamaha wave processor chips isn't the same as clunking something together with colored sliders. And if people think it is, they're wrong.

T.
Posted By: Outkaster

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/22/19 09:44 AM

And how many here have actually played one.
Posted By: gronas

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/22/19 08:18 PM

Originally Posted By: Outkaster
And how many here have actually played one.


I have!
Posted By: KorgyPorky

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/23/19 01:48 AM

This news actually triggered me to buy a used cp4..

The cp4, is still a perfect instrument for the lower position in a setup due to the comtrolls sitting all on yhe front.. it should allow me to have 2 keyboards right on top of eachother more akin to an organ, instead of the 2nd keyboard hoovering high above the first one..

I donít see much difference where it comes to sound quallity, and keybed quallity... the cp4 still sounds and feels top knotch
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/23/19 10:46 AM

Interestingly, the CP40 is still around. I don't know if they're just selling it until they run out, or if they intend to keep that in production. If the latter, it remains a viable alternative for those who prefer a Yamaha stage piano with more of the CP4 approach (more sounds, compact control surface to keep a second board closer). It also knocks over 5 lbs off the weight of the CP88.

And picking up from an earlier post of mine in this thread and in another... the P515 is still a better "piano" than any of them... but that doesn't make it a better *gigging* piano.
Posted By: ElmerJFudd

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/23/19 11:00 AM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Interestingly, the CP40 is still around. I don't know if they're just selling it until they run out, or if they intend to keep that in production. If the latter, it remains a viable alternative for those who prefer a Yamaha stage piano with more of the CP4 approach (more sounds, compact control surface to keep a second board closer). It also knocks over 5 lbs off the weight of the CP88.

And picking up from an earlier post of mine in this thread and in another... the P515 is still a better "piano" than any of them... but that doesn't make it a better *gigging* piano.


The 40 is a good style and price for schools and churches.
Posted By: drawback

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/23/19 11:15 AM

Originally Posted By: Outkaster
And how many here have actually played one.


If this is a comment on the arc of these threads, Iím with ya.
Posted By: jimkost2002

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/23/19 11:20 AM

Originally Posted By: drawback
Originally Posted By: Outkaster
And how many here have actually played one.


If this is a comment on the arc of these threads, Iím with ya.


Me three! The proof is always in the hands on PLAYING! I know, I know, ďspeculation is ĎfuníĒ, but I prefer my fun in the process of actual playing and creating.
Posted By: Outkaster

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/23/19 11:24 AM

Originally Posted By: drawback
Originally Posted By: Outkaster
And how many here have actually played one.


If this is a comment on the arc of these threads, Iím with ya.


That's it we have all kinds of opinions and comments about a board almost no one has played. Just like the Hammond XK5 and a bunch of other boards have had to endure around here.
Posted By: halhertz

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/23/19 11:38 PM

If it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck and takes a dump like a duck, it's probably a duck. It is very unlikely to magically transform into an elegant swan in less than 24hrs.

Having said that, I personally have nothing against ducks. I like ducks. But ducks are not swans and never will be.

smile
Posted By: gg22

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/26/19 02:22 AM

Originally Posted By: halhertz
Anyone know what the Canadian pricing for the PC88 is? I asked my local dealer but he hasn't received any info yet.


It's not that bad actually - $2,500CAD for CP73 and $3,000CAD for CP88.
Posted By: Dreamchilde

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/26/19 02:37 AM

My post NAMM thoughts.

I REALLY want to like this board. In some ways, it competes with the Korg SV-1. It is a very hands-on and friendly board. It's very easy to build layers and it is an inspiring board. I don't know, however, if I can justify getting rid of my SV for it. And even though it has more tones, it does have some glaring limitations (Rotary OR Distortion on an organ preset but not both??). After two days with it, I wanted to fall in love with this board. I can only honestly say it's a crush at this point.
Posted By: Dave Ferris

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/26/19 03:25 AM

On first play, I didn't care for either of them.

Wasn't as crazy as I thought I'd be about the P 515 either. Although the form factor with the integrated stand and triple pedal unit is very attractive.

The only thing Yamaha that really impressed me was the new AvantGrand N1X.

The CP4 is sounding even better after I got home and played it for 15 minutes. wink
Posted By: Bobadohshe

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/26/19 05:03 AM

Played this at NAMM today. G-- D--m. It's what I've been missing from the world class CP4 - Nord quality EPs and clavs. I will need some more time alone with the pianos before really deciding though. 6 minutes in headphones does not an honest assessment make.
Posted By: Bobadohshe

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/26/19 05:07 AM

Dave what do you like about the CP4 that the CP88 lacks?
Posted By: Legatoboy

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/26/19 09:16 AM

I can hear the AWM in the lower registers in the new CP's vids I think which I always preferred to SCM in the bass octaves or at least missed a component of how it responds down there... but the mid range and top end AWM was never as good as the low end with AWM... and overall, never as smooth as SCM, but sometimes more resonant. . .better for rock in a lot of ways cause it gives you more cut, ... but the kicker for me is again, no Sympathetic Resonance, which, even on a loud stage I feel helps me smooth things out playing live, I don't care what they say about it being useless in a louder context. a big reason the CP300 sounds as good as it does with AWM I feel or at least playing wise . . they are almost to strict with how they apply their options Yamaha... too tight. I know they make $ that way and all... and I understand why they may have chosen AWM with their new 'sound upgrade' with the new CP's....if that is the case.


But still 'Clonewheel Challanged'...at least update their organs with an 'attempt' one cycle? Been decades! I think they are losing out with that but who knows . . .


I hope to check out the new CP at GC or Ash soon...but I still like my SCM in my CP50 and I can edit it more than on the CP4 I believe.
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/26/19 11:24 AM

Any more thoughts on the CP73 action?

As for sympathetic resonance, couldnít this be included when they add new sample sets?
Posted By: ElmerJFudd

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/26/19 11:42 AM

Originally Posted By: Fleer
Any more thoughts on the CP73 action?

As for sympathetic resonance, couldnít this be included when they add new sample sets?


Interesting, Dave felt it was synthy feeling. Which is surprising. I find the action on the some Yamaha's like the Montage 8 to have synthy feeling keys, but the weight and swing of the action is not what I would call a synth action. Won't know till the shops have one on the floor unfortunately (if ever).

Mark my words, leaving off sympathetic resonance was a business decision. I doubt highly it will show up in a firmware update unless there is outcry that results in poor sales.
Posted By: jefsco

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/26/19 11:58 AM

Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Interesting, Dave felt it was synthy feeling. Which is surprising. I find the action on the some Yamaha's like the Montage 8 to have synthy feeling keys, but the weight and swing of the action is not what I would call a synth action.

Thatís my thoughts on the Montage 8 action as well.
Posted By: Dave Ferris

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/26/19 12:15 PM

Originally Posted By: Bobadohshe
Dave what do you like about the CP4 that the CP88 lacks?


I heard the CP88 piano as sounding a bit synthetic , like I initially commented on in the videos. However just like you mentioned and giving it the benefit of the doubt- just with a short time playing it with phones, plus add it the extreme noise factor from the floor - I can't be 100% conclusive on it.

I hear the CP4 as having a less digital sound, a warmer tone in the middle for chords and lines. The new one had more presence in the top end for sure but I just didn't care as much for the overall tone. Again a short time on it, playing with phones (of questionable quality) with excessive background noise where I had to really strain to hear anything.

And I only played the piano, no EPs or other sounds.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/26/19 01:30 PM

Originally Posted By: Legatoboy
But still 'Clonewheel Challanged'...at least update their organs with an 'attempt' one cycle? Been decades! I think they are losing out with that but who knows . . .

I wonder if they gave any thought to building in the Reface YC functionality/controls, even if it would have added a few hundred dollars. Kind of a double-edged sword, because then you'd also have people complaining about how it's a $2000+ board and yet the organ engine lags so far behind Nord/Roland/Mojo/whoever.
Posted By: RogerL

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/26/19 02:55 PM

Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
Originally Posted By: Bobadohshe
Dave what do you like about the CP4 that the CP88 lacks?


I heard the CP88 piano as sounding a bit synthetic , like I initially commented on in the videos. However just like you mentioned and giving it the benefit of the doubt- just with a short time playing it with phones, plus add it the extreme noise factor from the floor - I can't be 100% conclusive on it.

I hear the CP4 as having a less digital sound, a warmer tone in the middle for chords and lines. The new one had more presence in the top end for sure but I just didn't care as much for the overall tone. Again a short time on it, playing with phones (of questionable quality) with excessive background noise where I had to really strain to hear anything.

And I only played the piano, no EPs or other sounds.


Thanks for posting. I may not understand how manufacturers do things but aren't the CFX and Bosendorfer sounds in the CP88 the same as in the new AdavntGrande N1X that you liked much better. Are the sample sounds actually different? or just the speaker system you heard them through?

Curious how the feel of the CP88 keyboard was. According to Yamaha PR its the same or maybe even upgraded from the CP4 but maybe thats not correct.

The AvantGrande N1X may be nicer feel but the MSRP = $10,999 so a little too rich for my budget although it would look nice in my house.

And were you able to check out the Dexibells?
Posted By: jimkost2002

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/26/19 03:52 PM

Originally Posted By: RogerL

Curious how the feel of the CP88 keyboard was. According to Yamaha PR its the same or maybe even upgraded from the CP4 but maybe thats not correct.

The AvantGrande N1X may be nicer feel but the MSRP = $10,999 so a little too rich for my budget although it would look nice in my house.




Yamaha sez the action of the CPs is close to Montage8
Posted By: gg22

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/26/19 04:32 PM

Originally Posted By: jimkost2002
Originally Posted By: RogerL

Curious how the feel of the CP88 keyboard was. According to Yamaha PR its the same or maybe even upgraded from the CP4 but maybe thats not correct.

The AvantGrande N1X may be nicer feel but the MSRP = $10,999 so a little too rich for my budget although it would look nice in my house.




Yamaha sez the action of the CPs is close to Montage8


Only on CP73 model. CP88 is completely different.
Posted By: Dave Ferris

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/27/19 02:30 AM

Originally Posted By: RogerL
Thanks for posting. I may not understand how manufacturers do things but aren't the CFX and Bosendorfer sounds in the CP88 the same as in the new AdavntGrande N1X that you liked much better. Are the sample sounds actually different? or just the speaker system you heard them through?

Curious how the feel of the CP88 keyboard was. According to Yamaha PR its the same or maybe even upgraded from the CP4 but maybe thats not correct.

The AvantGrande N1X may be nicer feel but the MSRP = $10,999 so a little too rich for my budget although it would look nice in my house.

And were you able to check out the Dexibells?


I don't know about the similarity between samples. I have been told the R&D departments of the MI keyboards and home digital (AvantGrand) are two separate entities. Whether they share common characteristics is beyond my, and would think anyone except an insider's, knowledge.

Yes, of course the AvantGrand is another entirely different category then any MI keyboard. Besides having a real piano action, the speakers are tuned optimally to attempt to emulate the closest experience of a real Grand. There's nothing like it on the market, even from Kawai. And of course it's price accordingly.

Yes I played a Dexibell briefly. It was the one on the floor just to the right of this guy, just barely out of the shot. I can't recall if it was the 7 or 3. EDIT-- it definitely had 88 keys so it was the 7.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNd6YA-Wjs8

At first I'm playing it, with phones, in the middle and thought -- this sounds pretty good and feels decent too. But then I did an arpeggio and hit the G6 near the top. That note had the most ugly, non-pianistic sound to it I think I've ever heard on a modern DP. It was almost like a Technics from 1998 or something. After I heard that I took the phones off thinking...yikes !
Posted By: jimkost2002

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/27/19 08:45 AM

That was my experience as well with Dexibell, Dave.....
It was sad because I want them to succeed. I think they are young and hungry and have many good ideas. But, not quite there yet, imo.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/27/19 10:46 AM

Originally Posted By: Bobadohshe
It's what I've been missing from the world class CP4 - Nord quality EPs and clavs

The clavs may sound good, but there is still the limitation that there are only two Clav sounds in it. Nord has all 4 fundamental clav sounds (pickup positions), and often at least some of the selectable EQs (depending on the model). OTOH, people don't always hold Nord up as the model of clav excellence either, and I could imagine the Yamaha even sounding better within the subset of the clav sounds it does have, by the virtue of larger sample sets... more velocity layers, release samples, whatever. I know many have said that Hammond does clav better than Nord, and it really does come down to what you're listening for. I liked Hammond's release samples, but I preferred Nord for less obviously velocity switching.

EPs are another interesting comparison, as people haven't always agreed about the quality of Nord's Rhodes sounds either... and in fact, Nord just did a major upgrade to them about a month ago. But especially back when the CP4 came out, there was a lot of talk about how good Yamaha's EPs were, with their SCM modeling... desirable enough that many people were interested in the Reface CP just to get Yamaha's nice CP sounds. So it seems that, even then, people often preferred Yamaha's Rhodes sounds to Nord and many others. It's interesting that you find the new CP EPs (without SCM) to be better than the ones in the CP4. As someone else mentioned, maybe the real benefit of SCM was getting better results out of a relatively small sample set, but it can still be bettered by the "brute force" of a larger sample set, which maybe the new CP has. I never played the EP on the CP4, but I did briefly try a Reface, and it did not meet the expectations I had from the hype.

Originally Posted By: gg22
Originally Posted By: jimkost2002
Originally Posted By: RogerL

Curious how the feel of the CP88 keyboard was. According to Yamaha PR its the same or maybe even upgraded from the CP4 but maybe thats not correct.


Yamaha sez the action of the CPs is close to Montage8


Only on CP73 model. CP88 is completely different.

Right, and even the thing about the 73 feeling like the Montage 8 is from (as far as I've seen) a single Yamaha person who seemed to be giving his subjective impression of how it played, rather than disseminating technical knowledge of the design, and we all know how subjective comparisons of actions can differ, so I'm not ready to take as gospel that the CP73 action is similar to the Montage 8, at least apart from the known similarity that they are both balanced as opposed to graded.
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/27/19 11:14 AM

We need more perspectives on that CP73 action!
Posted By: stoken6

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/27/19 11:26 AM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
I'm not ready to take as gospel that the CP73 action is similar to the Montage 8, at least apart from the known similarity that they are both balanced as opposed to graded.
I can't see how they can make 73 Montage keys weigh 28lb!

Cheers, Mike.
Posted By: drawback

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/27/19 11:35 AM

Theyíre the best at many things, but Iíve never liked Yamahaís version of any keyboard instruments other than pianos.

I canít understand: when a company with their resources and buying power canít seem to emulate the core fundamentals of Rhodes/Wurlitzer/Clavinet/Hammond by now - it seems to me itís gotta be because they simply refuse to.

Itís as if they really believe an Electone is going to someday supplant the B3 and the world will finally come to their senses in the realization that Dyno was the highest evolved Rhodes after all.
Posted By: jimkost2002

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/27/19 12:13 PM

Originally Posted By: stoken6
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
I'm not ready to take as gospel that the CP73 action is similar to the Montage 8, at least apart from the known similarity that they are both balanced as opposed to graded.
I can't see how they can make 73 Montage keys weigh 28lb!

Cheers, Mike.


Itís not the ACTION that makes the Montage heavy, its the internal horsepower , chassis eyc, its a BULKY sucker!. Witness that the synth action versions are also heavy
Posted By: jimkost2002

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/27/19 12:17 PM

Originally Posted By: gg22
Originally Posted By: jimkost2002
Originally Posted By: RogerL

Curious how the feel of the CP88 keyboard was. According to Yamaha PR its the same or maybe even upgraded from the CP4 but maybe thats not correct.

The AvantGrande N1X may be nicer feel but the MSRP = $10,999 so a little too rich for my budget although it would look nice in my house.




Yamaha sez the action of the CPs is close to Montage8


Only on CP73 model. CP88 is completely different.


Blake was a little unclear in many of the demos. He keeps mentioning Montage not just in conjuction with the 73, despite citing the difference in 73 and 88 actions. But I stand corrected nonetheless!
Posted By: Adan

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/27/19 12:38 PM

Originally Posted By: drawback
Theyíre the best at many things, but Iíve never liked Yamahaís version of any keyboard instruments other than pianos.

I canít understand: when a company with their resources and buying power canít seem to emulate the core fundamentals of Rhodes/Wurlitzer/Clavinet/Hammond by now - it seems to me itís gotta be because they simply refuse to.



I've long harbored the same view. Today, virtually every other manufacturer can put a decent leslie sim in a $2,000 keyboard. For some reason, Yamaha cannot.

It's as if they set out to prove that having the best acoustic piano emulation can overcome every other weakness. And you know what, they've made a strong case for just that proposition.
Posted By: zephonic

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/27/19 01:42 PM

I played each briefly at NAMM and while the CP88 action feels a little nicer, the difference isnít enough to matter much to me. The 73 simply feels great, too.

AFAICT, the EPís are the same as whatís in the Montage/MODX. They sound good, but not world-beating like the CFX and Imperial samples. Still, I think the new CPís are terrific, and if I hadnít just bought the MODX8, Iíd definitely get one.
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/27/19 02:18 PM

@zephonic: could you give us a comparison perspective on that CP73's BHS (Balanced Hammer Standard) action? In any way similar to Yamaha's GHS (Graded Hammer Standard) action on your MODX8, apart from the graded thing of course? Or indeed similar to the Montage 7, as I would hope, even without the aftertouch feature?
Posted By: 1203

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/27/19 02:39 PM

Originally Posted By: zephonic
I played each briefly at NAMM and while the CP88 action feels a little nicer, the difference isnít enough to matter much to me. The 73 simply feels great, too.

AFAICT, the EPís are the same as whatís in the Montage/MODX. They sound good, but not world-beating like the CFX and Imperial samples. Still, I think the new CPís are terrific, and if I hadnít just bought the MODX8, Iíd definitely get one.


Oh, i thought the EPĎs are new samples...? And from what i hear in the demos, they sound different... (?)
Posted By: gg22

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/27/19 02:42 PM

Originally Posted By: drawback
Theyíre the best at many things, but Iíve never liked Yamahaís version of any keyboard instruments other than pianos.

I canít understand: when a company with their resources and buying power canít seem to emulate the core fundamentals of Rhodes/Wurlitzer/Clavinet/Hammond by now - it seems to me itís gotta be because they simply refuse to.

Itís as if they really believe an Electone is going to someday supplant the B3 and the world will finally come to their senses in the realization that Dyno was the highest evolved Rhodes after all.

Yeah, they are the best at emulating acoustic guitars, orchestral instruments, violins, marimbas, horns but always sucked at keyboard instruments. Considering their resources, I think it's just somebody up there the corporate ladder has different tastes.
And that's why after a long time, I'm free of Yamaha's stuff, except a home digital piano.
Posted By: Polkahero

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/27/19 02:45 PM

Originally Posted By: gg22
Originally Posted By: drawback
Theyíre the best at many things, but Iíve never liked Yamahaís version of any keyboard instruments other than pianos.

I canít understand: when a company with their resources and buying power canít seem to emulate the core fundamentals of Rhodes/Wurlitzer/Clavinet/Hammond by now - it seems to me itís gotta be because they simply refuse to.

Itís as if they really believe an Electone is going to someday supplant the B3 and the world will finally come to their senses in the realization that Dyno was the highest evolved Rhodes after all.

Yeah, they are the best at emulating acoustic guitars, orchestral instruments, violins, marimbas, horns but always sucked at keyboard instruments. Considering their resources, I think it's just somebody up there the corporate ladder has different tastes.
And that's why after a long time, I'm free of Yamaha's stuff, except a home digital piano.


I thought Kurzweil was the best when it came to acoustic instruments?
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/27/19 03:42 PM

Originally Posted By: jimkost2002
Itís not the ACTION that makes the Montage heavy, its the internal horsepower , chassis eyc, its a BULKY sucker!. Witness that the synth action versions are also heavy

I think it's a combination. Notice the Montage 88 with hammer action is a whopping 26+ lbs more than the Montage non-hammer 76, about 70% heavier for 15% more keys, that's what moving to the hammer action (and the larger chassis needed to support it) does to a Montage.

Originally Posted By: Adan
Today, virtually every other manufacturer can put a decent leslie sim in a $2,000 keyboard. For some reason, Yamaha cannot.

I'm not sure I buy that premise. I mean, if you don't count boards that are specifically sold as clonewheels, what up-to-$2k boards have strong Leslie sims? Heck, even some that *do* have clonewheel engines don't have great leslie sims. Is Yamaha's sim noticeably weaker than what you'd find in a Roland RD2000? Any Dexibell or Kawai? Any of the non-CX3 Korgs? Even the Kurzweils?

Originally Posted By: Polkahero
I thought Kurzweil was the best when it came to acoustic instruments?

It varies with the instrument and personal taste, but I think there has been something of a consensus that Yamaha and Kurz are the best overall at acoustic instruments. Though Roland Integra 7 and Korg Kronos are stronger than the rest of those companies' lines. Part of that is design philosophy... Yamaha and Kurzweil have generally put the same sounds in their low end boards as their high end, Roland and Korg more often do not.
Posted By: Lady Gaia

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/27/19 04:03 PM

Originally Posted By: stoken6
I can't see how they can make 73 Montage keys weigh 28lb!


The Montage 7 doesn't have the same action as the Montage 8. It uses the same lighter synth action as the Montage 6 rather than the hammer action of the beastly 88 key version.
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/27/19 04:06 PM

So does the CP73 resemble the action on the Montage 7?
Posted By: stoken6

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/27/19 04:07 PM

Originally Posted By: Lady Gaia
Originally Posted By: stoken6
I can't see how they can make 73 Montage keys weigh 28lb!


The Montage 7 doesn't have the same action as the Montage 8. It uses the same lighter synth action as the Montage 6 rather than the hammer action of the beastly 88 key version.
I thought the implication of hammer-action was obvious, but maybe not. I'm referring to "the same action as the Montage" 88.

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: jimkost2002
Itís not the ACTION that makes the Montage heavy, its the internal horsepower , chassis eyc, its a BULKY sucker!. Witness that the synth action versions are also heavy

I think it's a combination. Notice the Montage 88 with hammer action is a whopping 26+ lbs more than the Montage non-hammer 76, about 70% heavier for 15% more keys, that's what moving to the hammer action (and the larger chassis needed to support it) does to a Montage.
Scott understands me.

Cheers, Mike.
Posted By: agitato

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/27/19 04:07 PM

Are the clavs in the new cps the same as those in the modx?
Posted By: Randelph

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/27/19 04:55 PM

So... what case would you make for buying the new CP's over the MoDX? I was surprised at myself, considering buying MODX7. The weight and generally favorable reports of user friendliness, the wheels on top, and the sounds lifted from the Montage. Alot of board for $1,500-$1,900.

CPs
+ Nord like UI
+ built-in 2 out audio interface
+ pedal included for half-pedaling
+ balanced outs as well as 1/4" outs
- small sound set, significant time delay before more introduced, unclear if there's 1GB or more of additional samples that can be used

MODX
+ significantly lighter weight
+ entire Montage soundset/samples
+ built-in 4 out audio interface
+ 1GB sample expansion
+ larger display for more editing options
+ live sets
+ super knob
+ A/D input, iOS instrument support
+ vocoder
+ 8 operator FM engine
+ dedicated USB volume knob
+ advanced integration with computers
+ available in 3 sizes
- not as user friendly


This is kind of a stumper. On the one hand I love the Nord-like interface of the CPs, that's worth alot right there as I tend to buy features that don't end up using because I don't want to spend too much time learning a board instead of playing it.

But if Yamaha has indeed succeeded in making the MODX boards user friendly (unlike any Yamaha I've used before), then the MODX boards have more capability, cost less, weigh less and have a significantly larger soundset and another engine.

And of course there's the action on these boards. The MODX7 is synth, the CP73 is weighted. At 28 pounds for the CP73, if the action was decent that'd be a huge plus as well for the CPs.

WDYT?

Randy

Posted By: kbrkr

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/27/19 05:54 PM

What is with the super cheap On/Off switches for each section? I used to buy these at Radio Shack in the 80's?
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/27/19 06:11 PM

Originally Posted By: Randelph
So... what case would you make for buying the new CP's over the MoDX? I was surprised at myself, considering buying MODX7. The weight and generally favorable reports of user friendliness, the wheels on top, and the sounds lifted from the Montage. Alot of board for $1,500-$1,900.

CPs
+ Nord like UI
+ built-in 2 out audio interface
+ pedal included for half-pedaling
+ balanced outs as well as 1/4" outs
- small sound set, significant time delay before more introduced, unclear if there's 1GB or more of additional samples that can be used

MODX
+ significantly lighter weight
+ entire Montage soundset/samples
+ built-in 4 out audio interface
+ 1GB sample expansion
+ larger display for more editing options
+ live sets
+ super knob
+ A/D input, iOS instrument support
+ vocoder
+ 8 operator FM engine
+ dedicated USB volume knob
+ advanced integration with computers
+ available in 3 sizes
- not as user friendly


This is kind of a stumper. On the one hand I love the Nord-like interface of the CPs, that's worth alot right there as I tend to buy features that don't end up using because I don't want to spend too much time learning a board instead of playing it.

But if Yamaha has indeed succeeded in making the MODX boards user friendly (unlike any Yamaha I've used before), then the MODX boards have more capability, cost less, weigh less and have a significantly larger soundset and another engine.

And of course there's the action on these boards. The MODX7 is synth, the CP73 is weighted. At 28 pounds for the CP73, if the action was decent that'd be a huge plus as well for the CPs.

WDYT?

Randy


Actually don't care much for the MODX actions. MODX8's GHS has a history of clunky noises and the MODX6/7 are quite flimsy.
That's why I'm hoping the CP73's action will be divine ...
Posted By: unitjazz

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/27/19 06:51 PM


I blame Yamaha for having one of the most confusing and diluted description schemes, regarding the actions they put in their instruments. Every one seems to have a different name or slight variation.

Here is a listing of actions on some of the models being discussed here, right from Yamahaís spec sheet of each model ...

Montage 8 - Balanced Hammer Effect
CP73 - Balanced Hammer Standard
MODX 8 - Graded Hammer Standard
MOFX 8 -Graded Hammer Standard (Initial Touch)

As you can see, each one is listed differently in some way.

As I follow this thread, I am getting confused by all the apples-to-oranges comparisons. Even Yamaha reps are clouding the waters, because it is not fair to refer to a Montage as a standard reference of an action, as there are two different keybeds on Montage models (Balanced Hammer Effect and FSX).

Comparing the 88 note Montage BHE action to the 73 note CP73 may be ďfairĒ, but the CP73 is not BHE, but rather BHS !!!??? (May feel the same, but lacks aftertouch ???). And donít even bring the CP88ís NW-GH action into the discussion, because that can only be compared to the CP4ís action, not the Montage 8ís action.

And if we start to get into a discussion of weight solely, that opens up another can of worms. The CP73 at 28 lbs wins, but the 38 lbs CP4 has better piano action, yet the CP88 at 41 lbs offers a (heavier) compromise between the CP73 and the CP4, but my 47 lbs. Roland RD-800 kicks all their butts as a stage ďpianoĒ...but has a bigger butt !!!

Likewise with the MODX 8 versus the MOFX 8, since the older MOFX specifies ďInitial TouchĒ and there is no such specification for the new MODX. Can we assume they feel the same, but may lack an additional feature ? At least the difference in weight between them is insignificant. This is an easy choice, as the MODX 8 is clearly an ďupgradeĒ from the MOFX 8 (although for me, it is a non-starter, as I dislike the GHS action).

Unfortunately for me, this has only confused me more. I want a less-than-30 lbs 73 note keyboard with the action of a CP-4 (or RD-800, like I own), but want the acoustic piano sound I get from my Soniccouture Hammersmith app, while having the Rhoads electric piano sounds from my Yamaha S90es, and I would prefer not to have toggle switches that stick up from the front panel that will likely be vulnerable to being snapped off in transport...and I would like it to be under $1500. Is that too much to ask ???
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/27/19 08:22 PM

Originally Posted By: Randelph
WDYT?

MODX is much more capable. Choose the CP if you are willing to lose a bunch of those capabilities for some combination of action preferences (i.e. a likely better 88, or a hammer action 73), Nord-like direct-dedicated control operation, balanced outs, internal power supply, aluminum vs. plastic chassis.

Originally Posted By: unitjazz
Likewise with the MODX 8 versus the MOFX 8, since the older MOFX specifies ďInitial TouchĒ and there is no such specification for the new MODX. Can we assume they feel the same, but may lack an additional feature ?

Whether it says it or not, both have "initial touch" -- that's what Yamaha calls an action that is velocity sensitive (which is almost everything they make).
Posted By: zephonic

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/27/19 09:14 PM

Originally Posted By: Fleer
@zephonic: could you give us a comparison perspective on that CP73's BHS (Balanced Hammer Standard) action? In any way similar to Yamaha's GHS (Graded Hammer Standard) action on your MODX8, apart from the graded thing of course? Or indeed similar to the Montage 7, as I would hope, even without the aftertouch feature?


I definitely like the BH better, always have. But I don't mind the GHS as much as I used to.

Originally Posted By: 1203
Originally Posted By: zephonic

AFAICT, the EPís are the same as whatís in the Montage/MODX. They sound good, but not world-beating like the CFX and Imperial samples.


Oh, i thought the EPĎs are new samples...? And from what i hear in the demos, they sound different... (?)


I didn't do an in-depth side-by-side comparison, but they sounded and felt very similar to my MODX.
Posted By: burningbusch

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/27/19 09:33 PM

Originally Posted By: zephonic

Originally Posted By: 1203
Originally Posted By: zephonic

AFAICT, the EPís are the same as whatís in the Montage/MODX. They sound good, but not world-beating like the CFX and Imperial samples.


Oh, i thought the EPĎs are new samples...? And from what i hear in the demos, they sound different... (?)


I didn't do an in-depth side-by-side comparison, but they sounded and felt very similar to my MODX.


Since the CP-1, Yamaha has been using, for the most part, a naming of the Rhodes using dates. For example, the CP-1 included:

71Rd I
73Rd I
75Rd I
78Rd II
Dyno

AFAIK, these are all present in the CP-5 and CP-4

The Montage/MODX has all the original "small" sampled Rhodes from the Motif/S90 series PLUS two named RD Soft (five velocities) and RD Hard (four velocities) respectively. In addition, there are two sampled versions, apparently, of the CP-1/4/5 SCM Rhodes named Rd73 and Rd78. My ear tells me Rd73 and Rd78 are possibly re-samples of a CP-1 as you can hear some of the SCM elements in the lowest velocities that don't sound like an actual Rhodes but more like a re-sampling. I certainly could be wrong. Regardless, they sound very familiar to the CP-1/4/5.

The new CP88/CP73 only list three: Rd78, Rd75, Rd73. As these are purportedly sampled, I think they might be close to those sampled versions on the Montage/MODX.

Busch.
Posted By: zephonic

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/27/19 09:36 PM

Thanks, Busch! thu

Do you have similarly detailed info on the AP's in the respective series as well?
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/27/19 09:52 PM

And thanks, zephonic!
Were you able to compare the CP73ís ďStandardĒ BHS to the BH actions from yore? Is the new kid as good as you remember?
Posted By: zephonic

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/27/19 10:08 PM

Originally Posted By: Fleer
And thanks, zephonic!
Were you able to compare the CP73ís ďStandardĒ BHS to the BH actions from yore? Is the new kid as good as you remember?


I didn't know they are different. I like both.

"Nothing more to say about it I have."

Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/27/19 11:19 PM

Ingratiated I am.
Posted By: jimkost2002

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/28/19 10:48 AM

Originally Posted By: Randelph
So... what case would you make for buying the new CP's over the MoDX? I was surprised at myself, considering buying MODX7. The weight and generally favorable reports of user friendliness, the wheels on top, and the sounds lifted from the Montage. Alot of board for $1,500-$1,900.

CPs
+ Nord like UI
+ built-in 2 out audio interface
+ pedal included for half-pedaling
+ balanced outs as well as 1/4" outs
- small sound set, significant time delay before more introduced, unclear if there's 1GB or more of additional samples that can be used

MODX
+ significantly lighter weight
+ entire Montage soundset/samples
+ built-in 4 out audio interface
+ 1GB sample expansion
+ larger display for more editing options
+ live sets
+ super knob
+ A/D input, iOS instrument support
+ vocoder
+ 8 operator FM engine
+ dedicated USB volume knob
+ advanced integration with computers
+ available in 3 sizes
- not as user friendly


This is kind of a stumper. On the one hand I love the Nord-like interface of the CPs, that's worth alot right there as I tend to buy features that don't end up using because I don't want to spend too much time learning a board instead of playing it.

But if Yamaha has indeed succeeded in making the MODX boards user friendly (unlike any Yamaha I've used before), then the MODX boards have more capability, cost less, weigh less and have a significantly larger soundset and another engine.

And of course there's the action on these boards. The MODX7 is synth, the CP73 is weighted. At 28 pounds for the CP73, if the action was decent that'd be a huge plus as well for the CPs.

WDYT?

Randy



Better Build Quailty on CPs
Posted By: 1203

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/28/19 01:54 PM

Originally Posted By: burningbusch



In addition, there are two sampled versions, apparently, of the CP-1/4/5 SCM Rhodes named Rd73 and Rd78. My ear tells me Rd73 and Rd78 are possibly re-samples of a CP-1 as you can hear some of the SCM elements in the lowest velocities that don't sound like an actual Rhodes but more like a re-sampling. I certainly could be wrong. Regardless, they sound very familiar to the CP-1/4/5.

The new CP88/CP73 only list three: Rd78, Rd75, Rd73. As these are purportedly sampled, I think they might be close to those sampled versions on the Montage/MODX.

Busch.


I am quite sure, that the Rhodes and Wurly samples in the new CP's are new samples. Why?

1. Recently i played the Yamaha P-515 at the local shop (Germany) and the Rhodes there sounded very very good to me - definitely better than the Rhodes in the MODX which i had a few days at home for a test. So i believe, they took this Rhodes sample, which is definitely new, also in the CP's. It sounded like the "RD 78" in the Youtube Videos i have seen.

2. This "RD78" has sonically nothing to do with the "Rd 78 MkII" in the CP1/5/4/40, which sounds like a "shallow" voiced Rhodes which much overtones. The new one is more "low deep" voiced, to my ears.

3. Blake Angelos from Yamaha as well as Woody Piano Shack speak in their CP-videos from new EP samples - Blake explicitly, Woody says something like "these are the best EP's" that he has played in any Yamaha ever. And a few months ago he has reviewed the MODX with one main focus on the EP's.

I get more and more rid of the Rhodes in my Nords (Grand and Wurly i find still great), and while i was a little bit disappointed from the EP's in the MODX, i'm really looking forward to the CP's... and once more: The P-515 Rhodes is a step in the right direction and i can't believe Yamaha was going back from there. Definitely new anyway are the samples in the first update of the CP's: "Sparkle Top" Rhodes and "Wide" Wurly. smile
Posted By: Lady Gaia

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/28/19 09:50 PM

Originally Posted By: stoken6
I thought the implication of hammer-action was obvious, but maybe not. I'm referring to "the same action as the Montage" 88.


Oh! Quite. Yes, itís an interesting question given the 26lb weight difference between the Montage 7 and 8. Presumably weight was simply not a consideration with the Montage design and the larger case contributes substantially to its mass alongside the action?

The aluminum CP73/88 enclosure suggests it has to have been designed with weight reduction as their major focus. Perhaps that includes changes to the mounting for the action or other adjustments that leave the feel intact. I assume itís not exactly the same in any case as aftertouch would be a surprising inclusion for the product category.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/28/19 10:27 PM

The BHE (Balanced Hammer Effect) action already exists without aftertouch, in the MO8. If AT were the only reason the Montage 8 and CP73 actions differed, it wouldn't warrant a new name.
Posted By: gg22

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/28/19 10:40 PM

Yamaha S70XS with BHE is probably the closest keyboard to the CP73, and it weighs 44.2 lbs, 17 lbs difference.
Posted By: Dave Ferris

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/31/19 08:42 AM

The best demo I've heard the piano on. At 1:00 and 2:37.

Posted By: Legatoboy

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/31/19 08:51 AM

So romantic in French...just sayin! The French just love protocol . . .
It's not SCM but it's very clean/ balanced and articulate sounding compared to previous P series I think possibly.. at least just listening to it..I think SCM may sing a bit better in the midrange. As Dave Ferris mentioned a slight synthetic sounding component and 'flattening' for lack of a better term sometimes when the velocity gets pushed a bit, that's what I hear .... that's more of a AWM2 attribute ..With SCM that sort of thing was lessened but it does sound good and looks very playable with that action..It probably 'bangs' a bit better in the low-end than SCM . . . more resonant down there a tad

Almost everything in life is a tradeoff
Posted By: ElmerJFudd

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/31/19 10:45 AM

Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
The best demo I've heard the piano on. At 1:00 and 2:37.



OK, so we know there are enough velocity layers to get a mellow p and a pinging f and some decent seemingly smooth gradation in between. Is he on the 73 in this video? If so, the lesser action tracks velocity pretty well, yes? Timbre of the sample detail, perhaps length and quality are better than all the sub $1k stuff that has been popping up.

Get them in the shops, Yamaha and we will see what's what. Then when the bitching starts, get that firmware update cooking.
Posted By: Outkaster

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/31/19 11:49 AM

Well the bitching has already started here and people haven't even played the thing.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/31/19 12:37 PM

Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Is he on the 73 in this video?

I only watched a bit of it, but I'm 99.9% sure its the 73. Perspective can skew things, but the side angles are more consistent with the grouping of 3 black keys near the bottom and 2 near the top, and with the pitch/mod controls being closer to the rest of the controls, as they are on the 73 vs 88.

Action doesn't "look" great to me, but only against a standard of ideal, not necessarily against a standard of other hammer action boards that weigh under 30 lbs. But for example, look at the run down at about 1:18, he hits keys that don't play. Also, if you look closely, it appears the keys return slightly sluggishly, with a bit of bounce. Personally, based on the visuals, I'd keep my expectations in the TP100 territory, and my money is still on it being basically a non-graded version of the GHS.

But yes, it sounds very nice here, and the sound does seem well calibrated to the action in terms of his achieving dynamic expressivity.

Originally Posted By: Outkaster
Well the bitching has already started here and people haven't even played the thing.

Mais oui!
Posted By: RogerL

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/31/19 01:56 PM

For those that played the CP88 at NAMM, I am most interested in the action and if its as good (or better) then the CP4. The piano and keyboard sounds I can hear are good. Seems to me that most manufacturers have at least one good to great piano sound these days,maybe the sampling technology has improved so much. So, for me at least, its the action and keyboard connection that counts. Will find out soon enough when they hit the stores.
Posted By: Bobadohshe

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/31/19 02:31 PM

Originally Posted By: RogerL
For those that played the CP88 at NAMM, I am most interested in the action and if its as good (or better) then the CP4. The piano and keyboard sounds I can hear are good. Seems to me that most manufacturers have at least one good to great piano sound these days,maybe the sampling technology has improved so much. So, for me at least, its the action and keyboard connection that counts. Will find out soon enough when they hit the stores.


I quite liked the action on the CP88. It seemed a touch lighter than the CP4 (a little more Nord like?) and yet solid enough for real piano playing. I don't know how I feel about the faux grained ebony black keys. I had a really positive experience with this board at NAMM. I've also been playing the hell out of the CP4 for 5 years and know that board pretty well. I want a CP88 pretty badly as it would give me the more robust EPs that are the CP4s weakness IMO....

BUT I need some serious time to play the instrument for real, not the mere 7 minutes I got at NAMM in headphones.
Posted By: Joe Muscara

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/31/19 02:35 PM

Originally Posted By: Outkaster
Well the bitching has already started here and people haven't even played the thing.
It happens to every product!
Posted By: Tonysounds

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/31/19 04:19 PM

Originally Posted By: jimkost2002
These boards look GREAT...... the only fly in the ointment is the two tiny levers that Iím surmising are pitch bend and mod controls.


WHY?!!!! WHYWHYWHYWHYWHYWHY?????!!!!!
Posted By: Outkaster

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 01/31/19 04:37 PM

Originally Posted By: Joe Muscara
Originally Posted By: Outkaster
Well the bitching has already started here and people haven't even played the thing.
It happens to every product!


Yes Joe you are right about that.
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 02/01/19 12:57 AM

The v1.1 update weighs 1.1GB including some new sounds, so does that give us an idea of the CPís total internal memory?
Posted By: ElmerJFudd

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 02/01/19 01:24 AM

Not necessarily. Only that it can hold as much as 1.1GB. But not if it can hold more. Though itís unlikely for Yamaha to give away storage that wonít be used.
Posted By: mojkarma

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 02/01/19 08:22 AM

Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Though itís unlikely for Yamaha to give away storage that wonít be used.


MoDX?
Posted By: NBrooks

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 02/02/19 03:40 PM

I'm intrigued by the built-in USB audio capability. In theory that allows you to connect say a laptop with Mainstage etc. and also run the sounds through the main outs - so avoiding the need to bring an audio interface along?

If so, that's great. But reading the manual, it's disappointing that the balanced outs and the unbalanced outs are just clones of each other. I can't say any function that allows you to put the USB audio out of one and the onboard sounds out of another.

Or, more broadly, even for internal sounds it would be cool if you could route them to either of the output types.
Posted By: M_G

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 02/02/19 05:30 PM


USB Audio/Midi is a big plus, I think !

Show me a Nord that has it...?
Posted By: NBrooks

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 02/03/19 04:45 AM

Iím not saying itís not a plus. Just observing that it would be much better if you could have on independent outs, since there are two sets of physical outputs. Thatís all.
Posted By: Charleston

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 03/01/19 05:49 PM

Posted By: Bobby Simons

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 03/01/19 11:23 PM

That was a great demo.
Posted By: EscapeRocks

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 03/02/19 12:01 AM

Thank you for posting that. UJIEE Katsunori is my very favorite reviewer ever.
Posted By: jimkost2002

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 03/02/19 08:57 AM

So these are released March 18.
I have my CP on pre-order with next day shipping.
If this is asgood as I suspect itíll be, maybe Iíll even get a CP88 to stay at home.
I plan to give the73 the acid test as it seems to be the best Non-Nord gig keyboard for Pianos and Clavs. (I have mojo61/lm for dedicated organ duties)
Did I hear Mellotron in Katsunori-sanís video?
(I concur with EscapeRocks that he is my fave reviewer as well)

So, Ima have a report on the CP73 and MS408s coming asap....
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 03/02/19 10:06 AM

Originally Posted By: jimkost2002
I plan to give the73 the acid test as it seems to be the best Non-Nord gig keyboard for Pianos and Clavs.

Looks not so great for clav... just 2 clav sounds in it. How about Korg Grandstage? That gives you a lot more clav (including all 4 pickup positions), also in a weighted 73 (though heavier). If you need a lighter weight piano/clav hammer action board, maybe Kurzweil SP6?
Posted By: jimkost2002

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 03/02/19 12:02 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: jimkost2002
I plan to give the73 the acid test as it seems to be the best Non-Nord gig keyboard for Pianos and Clavs.

Looks not so great for clav... just 2 clav sounds in it. How about Korg Grandstage? That gives you a lot more clav (including all 4 pickup positions), also in a weighted 73 (though heavier). If you need a lighter weight piano/clav hammer action board, maybe Kurzweil SP6?


Not entirely true that itís not so great for clavs...
Even though it has 2 pickup positions instead of 4, they will probably release more sounds in the next os update...plus some judicious eq and fx can cover in a pinch, for my needs at least....
Donít care for Grandstage....hate the action, esecially for clavs, hate the layout and the tiny pb and mod wheels.
Now the VC is an entirely different story.
Great keybed and form factor and kind of the perfect keyboard for the Afrobeat/Afropop stuff I do.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 03/02/19 01:28 PM

I'm not saying the CP's clav sounds are bad (heck, I haven't even played one), just that it only has 2 clav sounds (plus yes, EQ and effects you can apply to them), which makes me skeptical that it could be the best non-Nord for clav. In weighted action boards, I'd look at Montage/MODX8 and Forte7/SP6 as possibly some stronger clav/piano alternatives, maybe Crumar 7 if you're happy with the new piano...?

Originally Posted By: jimkost2002
Donít care for Grandstage....hate the action, especially for clavs, hate the layout and the tiny pb and mod wheels.

Well, if the PB and mod wheel is an issue, then it sounds like you're using this for more than piano/clav, yes? So then other things could also come into play.

But interesting about the Grandstage action being bad for clav. As weighted actions go, I thought the SV1 was above average for clav, because it has a lower release point than most. It seemed nice and snappy. In fact, I would have suggested SV1 insead of (or in addition to) Grandstage except that people generally find acoustic piano to be an SV1 weakness.
Posted By: ElmerJFudd

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 03/02/19 01:32 PM

I played the GrandStage as well. Was not impressed with the action or the action to sound connection. Have no idea if the CP-73 action is going to deliver and the 88 doesnít thrill me for dragging around. Then Casio shows up with these super light Privia S series models and Yamaha already has that poor manís Montage in the MODX. And Kurzweil surprised everyone with the SP6. Itís good to have options.

The new CPs are so specific to the EP vibe. Iíd love to have one but not sure I can justify if itís not going to go out and do work that often. Would have been something if they went the extra 9 yards and slapped drawbars and an organ engine on it. And just for good measure the CS and or DX engines from the reface models.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 03/02/19 02:16 PM

Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
I played the GrandStage as well. Was not impressed with...the action to sound connection.

It's a shame that didn't survive the SV1, then. I originally thought the SV1 would not be a sensible purchase, too limited for its price, but it's a joy to play, and I think it will turn out to be one of the few "classics" of the 21st century so far. I think the only people who don't think well of it are people who haven't played it. ;-) Though it is frustrating that they haven't really updated it, as it could still be so much better with some minor tweaks.
Posted By: ElmerJFudd

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 03/02/19 03:19 PM

I was at NAMM 2010 when the SV-1 debuted. I digged its vibe immediately - the UI especially. I did not care for the on board acoustic piano or the way the action interacted with it. But for EPs, excellent. And the rest of the timbres all useable. This is also when Yamaha showed off the CP-1 which was much more expensive, heavier, and a much better acoustic piano impersonation. It sounded great but the UI (while a beautiful display) was too digital and parameter divey compared to the switches and knobs on the SV-1. I also saw the Zarenbourg at this time but the prototype was not working and it would be another year or two before they actually released one.
Posted By: jimkost2002

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 03/02/19 03:43 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
I played the GrandStage as well. Was not impressed with...the action to sound connection.

It's a shame that didn't survive the SV1, then. I originally thought the SV1 would not be a sensible purchase, too limited for its price, but it's a joy to play, and I think it will turn out to be one of the few "classics" of the 21st century so far. I think the only people who don't think well of it are people who haven't played it. ;-) Though it is frustrating that they haven't really updated it, as it could still be so much better with some minor tweaks.


I owned THREE of them ó- 2 reds and a black, which was marked ďRH3 made in JapanĒ....THAT one made me hate Korg hammer actions with the intensity of a 1000 white-hot suns....
Yeah, it was a FANTASTIC SOUNDING keyboard hsmpered by the worst action this side of a Williams.....

I REALLY wanted to like the SV1 and it ticked so many boxes for me, but......
Posted By: jimkost2002

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 03/02/19 03:49 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
I'm not saying the CP's clav sounds are bad (heck, I haven't even played one), just that it only has 2 clav sounds (plus yes, EQ and effects you can apply to them), which makes me skeptical that it could be the best non-Nord for clav. In weighted action boards, I'd look at Montage/MODX8 and Forte7/SP6 as possibly some stronger clav/piano alternatives, maybe Crumar 7 if you're happy with the new piano...?

Originally Posted By: jimkost2002
Donít care for Grandstage....hate the action, especially for clavs, hate the layout and the tiny pb and mod wheels.

Well, if the PB and mod wheel is an issue, then it sounds like you're using this for more than piano/clav, yes? So then other things could also come into play.

But interesting about the Grandstage action being bad for clav. As weighted actions go, I thought the SV1 was above average for clav, because it has a lower release point than most. It seemed nice and snappy. In fact, I would have suggested SV1 insead of (or in addition to) Grandstage except that people generally find acoustic piano to be an SV1 weakness.


For a hardware Clav emulation to be successful, the action must be light and have a quick return. Neither of which applies to the Grandstage. Say what you will about Nords but the semi-weighted boards are among the best for playing Clav.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 03/02/19 05:58 PM

Originally Posted By: jimkost2002
Say what you will about Nords but the semi-weighted boards are among the best for playing Clav.

Yes... while I liked the SV1 action for clav better than most other hammer actions, sure, I would still prefer the Nord SW action... which also has a low release on the clavs. (As does the Mojo 61, though I haven't played that.)
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 03/03/19 02:16 AM

Meanwhile Iím in love with my new (Vox) Connie. Amazing waterfall action.
Posted By: jimkost2002

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 03/03/19 08:02 AM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: jimkost2002
Say what you will about Nords but the semi-weighted boards are among the best for playing Clav.

Yes... while I liked the SV1 action for clav better than most other hammer actions, sure, I would still prefer the Nord SW action... which also has a low release on the clavs. (As does the Mojo 61, though I haven't played that.)


Correction: I meant to write NORD semi weighted boards.
Yes, the Mojo 61 is PHENOMENAL to play Clav on (as well aseverything else)
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 03/04/19 12:59 AM

Gordon Reid (SOS) in his review on the Vox Continental: ďI particularly like the Clavinet Variations because they offer a damping control that makes them superior to almost all of the other emulations that Iíve encountered.Ē
Posted By: Charleston

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 03/09/19 02:23 PM

Anyone think there is any space for beefing up the sub section, with either more presets or better samples?
Posted By: ElmerJFudd

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 03/09/19 04:31 PM

Thats always the question with Yamaha, others too. They put out an instrument like the CP-50 with a wide sound pallet, and at the same time a CP-1 with a very narrow sound pallet. On the up side, the Montage has been getting updates including patches and samples (some new some brought over from Motif XF). And they have said there will be firmware updates for the new CP-73/88. So we shall see.
Posted By: icarusi

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 03/09/19 09:35 PM

Just played on an 88 today. Was more interested in the 73 for Wurli sounds. Preferred the second Wurli. AFAIK the board was already in a piano preset and the EP section was locked out until I pressed the 'exit' button on the preset panel. Couldn't find a way of switching off the the EP fx, other than turning down the fx level knob(s). The board was under another so very dark and hard to see the controls, working them by 'feel' a lot. Seemed easy enough to dial in fx and drive, although the full lighting of all the knob leds, then just the top led left, didn't help with 'at a glance' adjustments. Don't know if that's changeable in 'setup'.

I can now see the fx on/off buttons location on Yamaha's website, but for some reason they didn't 'register' in the dark.
Posted By: Bobby Simons

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 03/09/19 10:44 PM

Please resize your image, thanks.
Posted By: Mighty Motif Max

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 03/10/19 09:22 PM

Originally Posted By: Bobby Simons
Please resize your image, thanks.


shocked That's a big one.
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 03/11/19 02:17 AM

Mighty.
Posted By: Bobby Simons

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 03/11/19 06:19 AM

Originally Posted By: Fleer
Mighty.


No kidding. Though I did take the opportunity to carefully examine every knob, switch and button on that gigantic image. I really love the layout.
Posted By: Morizzle

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 03/11/19 07:17 AM

I like the layout of your arm hair. Very clean!
Posted By: Mighty Motif Max

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 03/11/19 04:57 PM

Originally Posted By: Morizzle
I like the layout of your arm hair. Very clean!


Pic's from Yamaha UK. Right click on it and select "View Image".

I thought the same thing at first.
Posted By: Brad Kaenel

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 03/28/19 02:20 PM

Got a CP73 enroute from SW; arriving next week. Anxious to contrast the keybed with my Forte, and the Seven. More to come...
Posted By: jimkost2002

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 03/28/19 04:42 PM

Originally Posted By: Brad Kaenel
Got a CP73 enroute from SW; arriving next week. Anxious to contrast the keybed with my Forte, and the Seven. More to come...


Canít wait to read your impressions, Brad!

I got to try a CP88 today at GC. I enjoyed the sound, feel and interface, but my experience was hampered by the placement of the CP on a rickety x-stand.....
I really held back from digging all the way in.
One important point is that the pitch and mod levers are very ergonomic and fluid. Well done, Yamaha!
Also, the 88 is super light and easy to move!
The raw sounds and fx are top class.... but I have to say Iím glad I got a Kronos as my primary board!
I may get a CP73 down the road as a beater lightweight board
Posted By: keyboardologist

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 03/31/19 05:05 PM

Any reviews from the CP73 owners? I'm mostly insterested in the keyboard action. Should I wait for some savings or go ahead with a cheap P121 along with my MX49 and a usb-to-host/midi converter?
Posted By: gg22

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 03/31/19 07:42 PM

Tried the CP88 in the store and and wasn't very impressed. Toggle switches felt weird looked like they can be damaged easily in a case.

Also Rhodes sounds still have evident velocity layers switching. Not as bad as Motifs, but it's still there (but I'm spoiled by the Korg Grandstage and Nord e-pianos, so probably not an issue in a mix). Overall a bit overpriced for what it is.
Posted By: EVC

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 03/31/19 09:11 PM

It would good if a moderator could fix that gigantic picture that makes reading this thread a pain in the rear
Posted By: Moonglow

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 03/31/19 09:50 PM

Temporary fix:

My Stuff -> Preferences, then reduce ďTotal posts to show on one page when viewing a post in flat modeĒ.
Posted By: Al Quinn

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 04/01/19 09:44 AM

Thanks for the tip Moonglow. What a relief!
Posted By: Adan

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 04/02/19 11:32 AM

Played them both briefly in GC yesterday. Typical of this store, neither was plugged into amplification, so had to use the crappy headphones they lent me. The CP88 was at armpit level and the 73 was at eyebrow level, and both were at an extreme tilt with of course changes the feel of the weighted action. So not a very fair audition and yes, these people are idiots.

I was mainly eager to feel the action of the 73. It's serviceable, but it's not great. Interestingly, there was a Korg Grandstage right next to it and so went back and forth between them for a few minutes, and I preferred the CP73. The Grandstage action felt too shallow in comparison.

The CP88 action is definitely better.

If said it before in this thread, but the CPs seem overpriced for what they are, because the non-piano sound set is so limited, its hard for me to see this as a serious multi-timbral instrument. But at 28 lbs with useable weighted action, the 73 might be a good option for someone playing primarily pianos who values its portability.
Posted By: Adan

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 04/03/19 07:01 PM

I went back today with my own headphones and had them put the CP73 on a lower rack so I wouldn't have to reach above my head to play it. Have a better feel for it now. The action is very light, and the pivot point gives it a rathe unpiano-like feel. I'd say the action is optimized for wurli, rhodes, and clav, in that order. A little too light even for rhodes, a tad heavy for clav (as any weighted action would be), but spot on Goldilocks for wurli.

The CP88 action is much better for piano. Playing acoustic piano sounds on the CP73 felt a bit forced and unnatural, whereas same AP sounds on the CP88 feel completely natural and easy.

So I'm a little disappointed because I'd hoped that in the CP I would finally find the weighted 73 with a great piano action. It's not that, and yet it still might top my list in the category of highly portable weighted action keyboards.

If the Crumar Seven had the CP73 action, that would be an improvement over the TP100 for playing electromechanical sounds. On the other hand, given the choice between TP100 and CP73 action for playing acoustic piano sounds, I'd probably go for the more substantial-feeling TP100.
Posted By: ElmerJFudd

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 04/03/19 08:09 PM

Very helpful assessment. Thanks for sharing.
Posted By: Dave Ferris

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 04/03/19 09:21 PM

Man we need to get on the next page of this thread !! ...too bad Dave can't remove that gigantic picture !

I'll do my part, with a meaningless post, by echoing Adan. I played the CP73 for all of 30 seconds before saying, no way.
Posted By: keyboardologist

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 04/03/19 09:36 PM

Light-weight hammer action sounds good to me for the CP73. I like that. I got used to semis and synths but most of the time I play Rhodes, so I feel that's what the CP73 is about. I don't like heavy-weight like TP100. Although GHS on the new P121 73keys is good, not so heavy.

I have to visit the local demo store soon!

Also, got to change page!
Posted By: Mjazz

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 04/03/19 10:31 PM

My contribution to the change page movement:

I was surprised to see that, among the programmable controls that Yamaha removed in these two keyboards as compared to the CP4 were Velocity Sensitivity Depth (VelDepth) and Velocity Sensitivity Offset (VelOfst). I use those a lot on my CP4.

Or are they there and I missed them?
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 04/03/19 11:03 PM

My contribution to the change page movement:

I was noticing how similar the CP88 is to the Kawai MP11/MP11SE.

Like the CP, the Kawai similarly has three sections: Piano, EP, and Sub for everything else, with a relatively small number of sounds in each section with pretty direct selection, and with each section having its own volume control and key range selector. Each has banks of 8 buttons for calling up your custom combinations, and four zones of external MIDI control. The CP has an array of dedicated effects knobs, whereas Kawai has four programmable knobs. Kawai adds song recorder, audio recorder, rhythms, and includes their top of line piano sound and action.

Despite the similarities, the Kawai hasn't generated all the interest the CP has. I'm sure its 70+ lb schleppage is part of that. But I also wonder if Kawai might have raised a few more eyebrows simply by varying the size/shape/color of assorted controls, to give it more of the CP's eye candy appeal. I can kind of imagine a lightweight 73-key version of the MP11SE using an ES100 or ES110 action, and a spiffed up control surface (and maybe some tweaks to the sound set), as a nice answer to the CP73.
Posted By: gg22

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 04/04/19 12:43 AM

Originally Posted By: Mjazz
My contribution to the change page movement:

I was surprised to see that, among the programmable controls that Yamaha removed in these two keyboards as compared to the CP4 were Velocity Sensitivity Depth (VelDepth) and Velocity Sensitivity Offset (VelOfst). I use those a lot on my CP4.

Or are they there and I missed them?


They removed the whole SCM modelling, which VelDepth and VelOfset were probably part of.

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
I can kind of imagine a lightweight 73-key version of the MP11SE using an ES100 or ES110 action, and a spiffed up control surface (and maybe some tweaks to the sound set), as a nice answer to the CP73.


That's not a bad idea. I'd love to have a Kawai stage piano based on ES110 action.
Posted By: Dave Ferris

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 04/04/19 01:01 AM

Whew, glad we turned the page ... wink cry

You know I spent more time at NAMM this year on the MP11SE then probably any other keyboard, maybe with the exception of the new Avantgrand N1X.

The Kawai room was quiet. The only place at NAMM where it was !!

Yes, the MP11se obviously has the best action on a stage piano. And yes the new sample introduced last year is a significant improvement. It now plays and sounds equally great !

But for what I do - Jazz- and how I play, for whatever reason, and I don't even know if I can verbalize it -- the Kawai just doesn't speak to me like a Yamaha does when playing Jazz tunes and standards. And I'm always confident, they'll work (i.e. blend, cut through ), live, in any band context or musical style.

In comparison, my CP4 and even my now dated CP5 - they have just a crisp, clear sound and response that for me, that's as good as it's going to get in an electronic keyboard.

To give an approximate analogy, I play all these great acoustics, top of the line models - Bosendorfer, Yamaha, even Fazioli - but I always go home, open my piano and immediately say to myself , I wouldn't trade this for any of them. It's just right.

Anyway I'm veering OT. But would like to play the CP88 in a quiet environment to a do a fair assessment of it.
Posted By: lvercaut

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 04/04/19 02:34 AM

[quote= But would like to play the CP88 in a quiet environment to a do a fair assessment of it. [/quote]


Please Dave do, walk out and test that CP88 for us. We need your opinion... smile
Posted By: Adan

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 04/04/19 03:00 AM

Woops, I posted in the wrong thread at first. Fixing that now . . .

My feeling about it is, MP11 may be the best action, but the Yamaha wooden key hammer action (CP4, P515, CP88) is at least 90% as good at 50-60% of the overall weight. If you're gigging, that's kind of an easy choice. And of course there's a subjective element, so someone like Dave Ferris might actually prefer the Yamaha over the Kawai.

One thing I liked about the CP73 action was that the action itself is extremely quiet. I'm sitting in front of my Seven right now trying to play through headphones while the wife and kids are sleeping, and the clunking of keys is loud enough that I have to worry about waking them up. But this is the only time I can practice! That's my situation, but not everyone has that sort of problem.
Posted By: Theo Verelst

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 04/04/19 03:02 AM

Well the french demo isn't bad, but from it (my French isn't perfect but I can read the paper) and the language I conclude that the sound used would bore soon. Like I said, it may be the sound engine/chips used have the potential to be great, but used like this: not so much.

T
Posted By: dsetto

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 04/04/19 06:00 AM

Itís my understanding the Vel Sens Depth & Offset are not part of the CP4 SCM. Are these not on the new models? For me, theyíre fundamental on CP4.

BTW, SCM for CP4ís APís are preamp sims.
Posted By: Brad Kaenel

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 04/04/19 03:24 PM

Got my CP73 unboxed and setup; just a few first-impressions...

Build is actually more robust than I was expecting. Thicker than what I thought it would be; more substantial. Knobs are all solid, and have that inertial liquid-feel. Even the unusual toggle switches and rockers feel very sturdy.

The action is also a little heavier and more substantial than what I expected, and maybe had hoped for, but this is my first DP in 30 years that doesn't have a Fatar keybed -- sorry I can't provide any comparison to existing Motif/Montage/MODX actions. It's fairly fast, fairly quiet, and has a comfortable travel-depth and bottom-out. Not as fast and light as a good Rhodes or Wurli. I would probably not choose the CP73 if the gig calls for EPs all night long. But I would definitely choose it for a big band jazz gig for mostly AP, and occasional EP.

Sound-wise, I actually like that there are just two or three very different choices in each piano category, instead of a dozen or more like on my Kurz -- I admit, fine nuances are usually lost on me. I will probably never use the "Sub" category sounds, though it will be nice to have a string pad or solo synth on hand without having to bring a separate board for "that one tune". I like the sound set here on the CP73 for the same reasons that I like the Vox Continental -- just a few choices, but all good ones. The exception, as is always decried here, are the Yamaha tonewheel/rotary voices -- still collectively awful IMHO.

Control surface is, actually, pretty cool and fun. The marketing verbiage makes much of the CP73's "one-to-one" user-interface, which is perhaps only a big deal compared to Yamaha's (and Kurzweil's, to be fair) own past offerings that require scuba gear to navigate fully. I've owned three Nord Electros and three Nord Stages that were also quite "knobby" one-to-one UIs, but I always felt they were hard to navigate because all the controls looked identical -- you had to read the labels too much. It's hard to explain, but I like the CP73's controls precisely because they are not all the same: you've got big knobs, small knobs, buttons, toggles, rockers; and they're implemented consistently and, to my mind, logically. I don't have to read the labels; instead, I can key off the shape or kind of control, and that appeals to me, viscerally.

For gig use, the CP73 seems ideal, as I said above, for my big band gigs, and for theater and general vocal rehearsals; this is the bulk of what I do. Due to its limited sound palette, it would not be my choice for a cover band, or for a complex musical theater show -- that's the Forte's (ahem) forte. Nor for a night of Herbie-esque fusion or synth work. But I would totally take it to a country/blues gig (with a clonewheel), or to accompany a vocalist for an evening of jazz standards.

I have a week of dress rehearsals coming up where I will have opportunity to play the CP73 for several hours every night -- for me, that's the only way I can assess whether I really like the board or not. Almost anything new feels fine for a few minutes; it's only after hours of playing that I can say if the keybed is helping or hurting, inviting or repelling, relaxing or tiring. More to come on that.

I love my Forte 7 and its Fatar TP40L keybed, but it's heavy, and semi-permanently installed at church; it's a chore to rip it out of its rigging to take on a gig. I had hoped that the VC73 could fill that role for me, but as much as I like that board for EP/organ/synth, it doesn't satisfy me for piano playing. I don't want an 88-key board, so I've been watching for new DPs in my preferred, six-octave format:

Nord Stage 76s; pricey, too many features
Nord Electro HPs; don't like the TP100 keybed
Dexibell Vivo S3 Pro; TP100 keybed
Crumar Seven; TP100 keybed
Kurzweil Artis7; don't like the TP8 keybed, either
Yamaha P-121; haven't played one
Korg SV-1 73; haven't played one (does it have good APs?)
Korg GrandStage 73; haven't played one

Honestly, I really wanted to love the Seven because Guido and Crumar are doing great things, and I really want to support their work. But I just do not connect with that TP100 for playing APs, and I have to connect with the APs. Did I leave any obvious contenders off the list?

Day one, the CP73 checks all of my feature boxes (as did the VC73) -- I just need to be able to say that I love playing APs on it, and I'll find that out in the next two weeks.

Posted By: Adan

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 04/04/19 03:49 PM

Originally Posted By: Brad Kaenel


The action is also a little heavier and more substantial than what I expected, and maybe had hoped for, but this is my first DP in 30 years that doesn't have a Fatar keybed -- sorry I can't provide any comparison to existing Motif/Montage/MODX actions. It's fairly fast, fairly quiet, and has a comfortable travel-depth and bottom-out. Not as fast and light as a good Rhodes or Wurli. I would probably not choose the CP73 if the gig calls for EPs all night long. But I would definitely choose it for a big band jazz gig for mostly AP, and occasional EP.



Interesting, Brad, because I had sort of the opposite impression based on 20 minutes of playing. I thought the action was light and well-suited to EPs, but a bit too much on the light side for serious piano work. And the pivot point felt non-optimal for piano as compared to the CP88. The difference in our perspective might be because my fingers are on a TP100 action most of the time, which is decidedly a heavy action.

We can agree that the CP Hammond patches suck.

I would also agree that it's very easy to write off (or write on) a keyboard based on a brief audition, when what you really need is a week or two of intensive playing to know if it will work.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 04/04/19 03:59 PM

Originally Posted By: Brad Kaenel
I would probably not choose the CP73 if the gig calls for EPs all night long. But I would definitely choose it for a big band jazz gig for mostly AP, and occasional EP.

Funny that you say the CP73 action feels good for AP, so-so for EP, and Adan posted the reverse. You guys are no help! ;-)

Originally Posted By: Brad Kaenel
The marketing verbiage makes much of the CP73's "one-to-one" user-interface, which is perhaps only a big deal compared to Yamaha's (and Kurzweil's, to be fair) own past offerings that require scuba gear to navigate fully. I've owned three Nord Electros and three Nord Stages that were also quite "knobby" one-to-one UIs

Yes, you've enjoyed one-to-one knobiness before as Nords are famous for, but that is still the exception rather than the rule, and yes, not something we have generally seen from Yamaha or Kurzweil. Roland has some of that in the VR series, but not in the RD, FP, DS, or FA lines. Korg goes that way with the SV1, Grandstage Vox, but not Kross, Krome, Kronos.

Originally Posted By: Brad Kaenel
I've owned three Nord Electros and three Nord Stages that were also quite "knobby" one-to-one UIs, but I always felt they were hard to navigate because all the controls looked identical -- you had to read the labels too much. It's hard to explain, but I like the CP73's controls precisely because they are not all the same: you've got big knobs, small knobs, buttons, toggles, rockers; and they're implemented consistently and, to my mind, logically. I don't have to read the labels; instead, I can key off the shape or kind of control, and that appeals to me, viscerally.

Yes, while Nord benefits from some differentiation via logical groupings and some size differences, I agree, more differentiation as on the CP is better. It's something I kind of mentioned in preferring the CP aesthetic to the structurally/operationally similar Kawai MP11SE.

Originally Posted By: Brad Kaenel
I love my Forte 7 and its Fatar TP40L keybed, but it's heavy, and semi-permanently installed at church; it's a chore to rip it out of its rigging to take on a gig. I had hoped that the VC73 could fill that role for me, but as much as I like that board for EP/organ/synth, it doesn't satisfy me for piano playing. I don't want an 88-key board, so I've been watching for new DPs in my preferred, six-octave format:

Nord Stage 76s; pricey, too many features
Nord Electro HPs; don't like the TP100 keybed
Dexibell Vivo S3 Pro; TP100 keybed
Crumar Seven; TP100 keybed
Kurzweil Artis7; don't like the TP8 keybed, either
Yamaha P-121; haven't played one
Korg SV-1 73; haven't played one (does it have good APs?)
Korg GrandStage 73; haven't played one

Honestly, I really wanted to love the Seven because Guido and Crumar are doing great things, and I really want to support their work. But I just do not connect with that TP100 for playing APs, and I have to connect with the APs. Did I leave any obvious contenders off the list?

A used Stage 2 76 (NOT a Stage 2EX)... might work nicely for you. Maybe even the earlier models, too. I know, you don't need everything it has, but it may have the sounds, feel, and travel weight you want, which is going to be a hard combination to find, you may have to also get things you don't care about. I suspect that and Grandstage might be your best bets.
Posted By: Mjazz

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 04/04/19 04:03 PM

Originally Posted By: dsetto
Itís my understanding the Vel Sens Depth & Offset are not part of the CP4 SCM. Are these not on the new models? For me, theyíre fundamental on CP4.

My sentiments exactly.

I searched for these in the owner's manuals on the new models, couldn't find them.

I don't know why they would be part of or limited to SCM. Seems like they're an essential element of how the keyboard translates player input into MIDI output values.
Posted By: Brad Kaenel

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 04/04/19 05:22 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: Brad Kaenel
I would probably not choose the CP73 if the gig calls for EPs all night long. But I would definitely choose it for a big band jazz gig for mostly AP, and occasional EP.

Originally Posted By: Adan
I had sort of the opposite impression based on 20 minutes of playing. I thought the action was light and well-suited to EPs, but a bit too much on the light side for serious piano work.


Funny that you say the CP73 action feels good for AP, so-so for EP, and Adan posted the reverse. You guys are no help! ;-)



Ha! It's all in our personal preferences, isn't it. I just happen to prefer lighter weighted actions across the board (pun intended), both on APs and EPs, real or digital. And I like my EPs lighter than my APs, so I'm never going to be completely satisfied playing both on a single board. That's why I'm happier playing EPs on the VC73, and APs on the CP73 (and the Forte, for the same reason). Adan probably skews the other way, and I've certainly never done any "serious piano work" myself. blush

I've played Rhodes all my life, and although the action is often maligned, when setup right it's lightning fast and effortless to play because there's very little mass in the keybed to get moving. I also like the lighter, faster grand piano actions with the "helper" springs. Maybe I just have wimpy finger muscles.

Watch, I'll flip-flop after playing the CP every day for awhile; place your bets. laugh
Posted By: jimkost2002

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 04/04/19 06:53 PM

Thanks Brad, I appreciate your impressions.
Posted By: zephonic

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 04/12/19 02:53 AM

I played the CP88 for about an hour today at GC. I can definitely see myself owning one. I don't particularly like the toggle on/off switches for the three sound sources and the knobs for instrument selection, but they're not dealbreakers. Otherwise, it's very Nord-like and something I'd love to have and play.

I'm thinking about how to replace the MODX8, though. As a bottom-tier board it's not quite right for me. I played the MODX7 too, and as a top-tier board it's perfect for 90% of my gigs. The action is very short, but consistent and snappy. Definitely a class up from the Krome.

But I still yearn for aftertouch, so maybe a used Motif XF7, or go the whole hog and just get the Montage 7. Don't need it for the regular gigs, but I miss it every time I do a synth solo.
Posted By: jimkost2002

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 04/12/19 06:38 AM

Originally Posted By: zephonic
I played the CP88 for about an hour today at GC. I can definitely see myself owning one. I don't particularly like the toggle on/off switches for the three sound sources and the knobs for instrument selection, but they're not dealbreakers. Otherwise, it's very Nord-like and something I'd love to have and play.

I'm thinking about how to replace the MODX8, though. As a bottom-tier board it's not quite right for me. I played the MODX7 too, and as a top-tier board it's perfect for 90% of my gigs. The action is very short, but consistent and snappy. Definitely a class up from the Krome.

But I still yearn for aftertouch, so maybe a used Motif XF7, or go the whole hog and just get the Montage 7. Don't need it for the regular gigs, but I miss it every time I do a synth solo.


Go for the gusto and get the Montage7, zephonic.
Because of the seamless sound switching and improved interface.
If you know the MOTIF architecture, itíll be a snap.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 04/12/19 07:44 AM

Originally Posted By: zephonic
I'm thinking about how to replace the MODX8, though. As a bottom-tier board it's not quite right for me.

Why? The action? Paricular sounds? Size/depth? Interface/egonomics?

Originally Posted By: zephonic
I played the MODX7 too, and as a top-tier board it's perfect for 90% of my gigs. The action is very short, but consistent and snappy. Definitely a class up from the Krome.

But I still yearn for aftertouch, so maybe a used Motif XF7, or go the whole hog and just get the Montage 7.

I assume you're talking about XF7/Montage 7 for top tier. There aren't too many greater-than-61 non-hammer actions wih aftertouch. Off-hand, in current models, I think the only other choices would be Nord Stage 3 and Numa Compact 2/2X. (Maybe some arrangers?) But obviously those two don't have the versatility of an XF/Montage if that's what you're looking for to put over a CP.

If you'd consider relegating your aftertouch to your 88, the Kurzweil PC4 could be a possibility, opening up your top tier to the MODX7 or other non-AT board, but then trading off the action and Nord-like operaton of the CP88. There are other 88s with AT, but weight starts to get up there. (If you don't need a full 88 on your hammer action, there are also some 7x options.)
Posted By: zephonic

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 04/12/19 02:25 PM

Originally Posted By: jimkost2002

Go for the gusto and get the Montage7, zephonic.
Because of the seamless sound switching and improved interface.


Iíd love to have a Montage 7, but itís $2K more than a MODX7, just for the aftertouch. Want it, not sure I should.

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott

Why? The action? Particular sounds? Size/depth? Interface/egonomics?


I've mentioned it all before in the MODX thread, but the 8 is just not designed as a bottom-tier board. The second-tier board partially obscures the display, which means I have to adjust my body position to see the upper live sets. After 6 months, grabbing the main volume knob still requires a conscious effort.
It's a pity, because I love the sound and ease of use. So I'm thinking a MODX7 or Montage 7 on the top-tier, as I don't want to lose all the good stuff.

Aftertouch is definitely a semi-weighted only thing for me. I just love it for proper synth stuff, modulation or LFO, you know, or vibrato for woodwind emulations. In general, I prefer semi-weighted for everything except piano and Rhodes.

The CP has most of what I loved about the Nord Piano, and adds versatility.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 04/12/19 03:06 PM

Originally Posted By: zephonic
[Iíd love to have a Montage 7, but itís $2K more than a MODX7, just for the aftertouch. Want it, not sure I should.

At least the MODX supports a second CC pedal, making it easier to assign your "aftertouch" functions to a pedal. It doesn't feel as organic, but at least it doesn't tie up your other hand like a mod wheel does. I think you should be able to use a continuous damper pedal instead of an expression pedal, if you want it to "bounce back" instead of having to manually dial the effect back out, making it feel maybe a bit more aftertouch-like.

Originally Posted By: zephonic
I've mentioned it all before in the MODX thread, but the 8 is just not designed as a bottom-tier board. The second-tier board partially obscures the display, which means I have to adjust my body position to see the upper live sets.

The CP88 does look like it has less panel depth that needs to be kept accessible/visible.

Originally Posted By: zephonic
Aftertouch is definitely a semi-weighted only thing for me.

That certainly limits your choices of 7x key boards to put over the CP88. Maybe something older is worth considering? Korg PA3x LE could be a possibility, or the older Korg TR.

Originally Posted By: zephonic
In general, I prefer semi-weighted for everything except piano and Rhodes.

I prefer hammers for piano/rhodes, SW for organ... but I find that almost everything else, I can do fine on either. And since organ doesn't use AT, that opens up the possibility of using AT on a hammer action for me. I haven't had a hammer action board with AT, but I'm looking at that PC4...
Posted By: Brad Kaenel

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 04/12/19 03:38 PM

Originally Posted By: Brad Kaenel

Day one, the CP73 checks all of my feature boxes (as did the VC73) -- I just need to be able to say that I love playing APs on it


Well, I didn't love it; decided to send it back. I really, really like the form factor, the weight, and the control surface. But the keybed was just not satisfying for me. Tired me out, and made my fingers hurt after several hours -- guess I'm just too biased towards the TP40.

I have a line on a used Stage 2 HA76, but I would still like to try the RH3 on an SV-1, just to say I did.

My final thought on the CP73 is that it bothers me that all the sounds in the Sub category are, IMHO, unremarkable, and many are just eeewwww -- I would never use them. Hard for me to drop $2K on a new instrument that I know going in is 1/3 wasted. Maybe if Yamaha seriously upgrades the sound set in a year, it will help me overcome my keybed objections. frown
Posted By: Brad Kaenel

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 04/12/19 03:44 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
A used Stage 2 76 (NOT a Stage 2EX)... might work nicely for you...I suspect that and Grandstage might be your best bets.


Thanks, Scott! There are two used Stage 2 HA76's on CL, near me; trying to get an audition time with them. thu

Not much luck finding a Korg GS or SV-1 in the big box music stores around me; may have to Amazon Prime one if I want to try out the RH3 keybed...
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 04/12/19 04:04 PM

Originally Posted By: Brad Kaenel
Not much luck finding a Korg GS or SV-1

I really enjoy playing the SV1, but if AP sound quality is a priority for you, it's definitely not first tier in that department. In fact, when I use it live, for piano, rather than one of its official grand piano sounds, I often use its Korg SG-1D sound. But for EPs, SV1 is wonderful.

I haven't had the opportunity to play a Grandstage yet. The piano/EP sounds should be much like the Vox, minus the tube.
Posted By: Tonysounds

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 04/12/19 06:39 PM

YMMV.

I interviewed Adam Holzman (Steven Wilson Band, Miles, others) a couple years ago when he was in Chicago. He loved the SV1 because it "was the only piano that didnt get crunchy loud."

He is absolutely correct. I listened to it that entire show, and after having used one in months of rehearsals, I would agree.

Sound quality of the piano doesn't suck.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 04/12/19 07:52 PM

I agree, the SV1 piano does not suck. It's certainly usable. (Heck, people are still getting mileage out of the Kurzweil Triple Strike!) But I think advances since its 2009 debut make it not first-rate by today's standards. I'd probably take the better Kawais, Nords, Kurzweils, or Yamahas over it for piano. I haven't tried all of these in gig contexts, though, and you make an interesting point there about how that could alter what you think about them. But there is a lot of subjectivity to it, too. Some people swear by Roland SuperNatural, I'd probably prefer the SV1. ;-)
Posted By: gg22

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 04/12/19 08:13 PM

Originally Posted By: Brad Kaenel
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
A used Stage 2 76 (NOT a Stage 2EX)... might work nicely for you...I suspect that and Grandstage might be your best bets.


Thanks, Scott! There are two used Stage 2 HA76's on CL, near me; trying to get an audition time with them. thu

Not much luck finding a Korg GS or SV-1 in the big box music stores around me; may have to Amazon Prime one if I want to try out the RH3 keybed...


I also think you should try Korg Grandstage. Same keybed as the Kronos, more AP variety, best in class modelled Rhodes, wheels instead of a joystick, shorter, lighter and boots in 35 seconds. I really enjoy mine.
Posted By: gg22

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 04/12/19 08:18 PM

Originally Posted By: Brad Kaenel
Originally Posted By: Brad Kaenel

Day one, the CP73 checks all of my feature boxes (as did the VC73) -- I just need to be able to say that I love playing APs on it


Well, I didn't love it; decided to send it back. I really, really like the form factor, the weight, and the control surface. But the keybed was just not satisfying for me. Tired me out, and made my fingers hurt after several hours -- guess I'm just too biased towards the TP40.


That's why as long as there is a return policy, manufacturers should be upfront on what actions they use, and not overhype it.
Posted By: Brad Kaenel

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 04/12/19 10:18 PM

Originally Posted By: Tonysounds
Sound quality of the piano doesn't suck.


I'm not picky about the AP sound, I just want to feel good when I play it. Ordered an SV-1 73 from A-Z Prime to give it a try; easy return if I don't like it. thu
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 04/13/19 09:00 AM

Originally Posted By: Brad Kaenel
Ordered an SV-1 73 from A-Z Prime to give it a try

Don't forget to check out the two free downloadable optional sound packs from Korg's web site.
Posted By: Nathanael_I

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 04/13/19 02:11 PM

I got to play the CP88 this week at the San Jose GC through some Yamaha 8" studio monitors of some kind.

The CFX sample was quite nice - they did a great job with it. It felt great on the keyboard too.

The action seemed "tall" to me compared to my Kawai RX-7 grand in the studio. The keys travel further, or felt like they did. The triple sensor mechanism seems to work very well. I was able to consistently play extremely softly - which is usually a problem on digitals. So, I suspect the MIDI stream can play velocity 30 and under controllably. It felt like I could play it at the very edge of silence - truly impressive. The action was definitely better than the Nord Stage3 88 they had - which had the typical Fatar "meh" feel - not great, not bad, just workably beige. I'd get used to the extra height in the action, and the control is quite good. Expressive control is a high point of the action.

The e-pianos all seemed flat and lifeless to me. My comparison point would be the 'Canterbury Rhodes" sample and Keyscape, both of which I can get lost in. I found the CP-88 Rhodes and Wurly uninspiring, by comparison. I'd bring a laptop instead of use them. Maybe it was a monitoring thing - I have no experience with the Yamaha monitors that were there and normally listen on much better amplification.

The pads were very bland and generic. I'd bring my OB-6 rather than listen to them. They would do in a pinch, but sound like dated ROMpler sounds to me - flat and one-dimensional. I have pretty nice hardware synths, so it isn't a fair comparison. But, I just wouldn't use this section. Omnisphere or hardware would be my choice instead.

So, my takeaway was that I'd only use the main CFX sample. But the action is quite nice. I'll look forward to checking out the new Nord Grand Stage and see what that is about.

The UI is quick and efficient. Yamaha did a nice job with the board.

If they make it so that it is a lot like the Nords where I can replace the samples I won't use, or put in my own, I could be very interested. As it stands, I would have to justify it as the price of getting a great 88 weighted action that sends out quality MIDI to drive a Gig Performer rig.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 04/13/19 03:43 PM

Originally Posted By: Nathanael_I
The e-pianos all seemed flat and lifeless to me.

Disappointing, but not surprising. I don't think I've ever heard a stock Motif/Montage EP that I really liked.
Posted By: jerrythek

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 04/13/19 04:41 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: Brad Kaenel
Ordered an SV-1 73 from A-Z Prime to give it a try

Don't forget to check out the two free downloadable optional sound packs from Korg's web site.


This! A lot more variety of approaches to the sounds: slightly less dynamic on the low velocity range, which some people like, and probably better acoustic piano programs. Plus you'll get more bass splits and some cool layers. You'll need to use the editor to load them in/audition them.

Jerry
Posted By: Mighty Motif Max

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 04/25/19 05:54 PM

Tried out the CP-88 over the last weekend. Liked what I heard. Electric pianos not my favorite, but everything else was pretty solid. Key action was a little heavier than I like but that's very subjective. I like that they have so many different pianos in it. And they brought back the S700. Wish they had the S6 from the Motif XF though, that one was great for ballads and worship music. The U1 upright was nice. Extra sounds were alright. The pads were definitely usable, wish there was more variety in the extra voices overall. But the ones there were were very nice.

The interface was "strange" but I never clicked with the Nord interface either. Forgot to try out the pitch and mod sticks (last board I checked before rushing out to an appointment). Build quality was very nice I thought. I don't like the feel of the toggle switches as I wonder about how they'd hold up long-term, just seemed a little thin.


Overall a nice board, not for me but nice.
Posted By: Tonysounds

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 04/25/19 06:51 PM

I found the EPs to very good. Haven't gigged with it yet, but that will happen soon. SUPER Easy to program as a controller.

A few quirks I discovered: you get 4zones PLUS the internal engine. Although the 4 zones can be split anywhere the internal zone can be split at One Predetermined point, just below middle C.

Also, when using with another midi device, you will need to go into the global menu and turn the midi transmit channel to off. Otherwise, if you call up a preset where you have all 4 external zones are disabled, you'll still transmit. It took me about 15 mins to figure out what was happening with it.


I havent read all 17 pages but I'll assume someone has gushed about the gorgeous feeling of the 73 keybed that only weighs 28 lbs.

I LIKE IT. She's a keeper.
Posted By: kayriss

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 04/25/19 07:18 PM

Originally Posted By: Tonysounds
I LIKE IT. She's a keeper.


Good to hear! I can't wait to try one out. My bad back can no longer manage lugging my CP4 around. I'm considering the CP73 as my gigging machine, and leaving the CP4 at home for practicing. The NE6 is high up on my list to try too.
Posted By: jimkost2002

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 04/25/19 07:57 PM

Originally Posted By: Tonysounds
I found the EPs to very good. Haven't gigged with it yet, but that will happen soon. SUPER Easy to program as a controller.

A few quirks I discovered: you get 4zones PLUS the internal engine. Although the 4 zones can be split anywhere the internal zone can be split at One Predetermined point, just below middle C.

Also, when using with another midi device, you will need to go into the global menu and turn the midi transmit channel to off. Otherwise, if you call up a preset where you have all 4 external zones are disabled, you'll still transmit. It took me about 15 mins to figure out what was happening with it.


I havent read all 17 pages but I'll assume someone has gushed about the gorgeous feeling of the 73 keybed that only weighs 28 lbs.

I LIKE IT. She's a keeper.


Consider my response a gush, Tony!
I played both the 88 and 73 at the Samís at 34th St.
Both models FEEL and SOUND excellent.
Great stage pianos, especially the 73 for the compactness and ease of carry.
Iíd get one definitely.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 04/25/19 09:02 PM

Originally Posted By: Tonysounds
the internal zone can be split at One Predetermined point, just below middle C.

According to the manual, "The Split Point can be changed from the [SETTINGS] button
->FunctionĒ->Split PointĒ
Posted By: Tonysounds

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 04/26/19 02:32 AM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: Tonysounds
the internal zone can be split at One Predetermined point, just below middle C.

According to the manual, "The Split Point can be changed from the [SETTINGS] button
->FunctionĒ->Split PointĒ


WOAH....how did I miss that? This one of the only manuals I HAVE read!
Posted By: Adan

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 04/26/19 02:37 AM

I got a CP73. I'm trying to ramp up my gigging, and want to be able to roll with a 1 keyboard rig. The Crumar Seven will definitely have a role. Bigger shows, where I have more time and leisure, I'll take the Crumar and a top keyboard. But I anticipate the majority of my gigs will be more the kind where the convenience of one board outweighs the luxury of a more complex set up.

Soundwise, the CP does not, at this time, have much outside the pianos that interests me. But it's a very capable and easy to use controller.

The action is good enough for APs. It's quite good for EPs, which I use more of anyway. So from that standpoint it's "just right" for the job.

I wanted to set the CP up in my living room and move the Crumar downstairs, but my wife won't let me. Says the Crumar is far more stylish and helps "tie the room together." And she's right. She's always right.
Posted By: ziozeus

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 04/26/19 11:23 AM

Originally Posted By: Mjazz
Originally Posted By: dsetto
Itís my understanding the Vel Sens Depth & Offset are not part of the CP4 SCM. Are these not on the new models? For me, theyíre fundamental on CP4.

My sentiments exactly.

I searched for these in the owner's manuals on the new models, couldn't find them.

I don't know why they would be part of or limited to SCM. Seems like they're an essential element of how the keyboard translates player input into MIDI output values.


My sentiment also.

Piano sounds will always have flaws.

I have a CP4 and I well know that:
-Eq: CFX miss med freq (not the sample itself, but the 01 default sound choice from yamaha)
-Velocity curve: CF has a too wide curve
-Volume spectrum across the 88 notes: CFX miss some power in higher notes, S6 is nearly non audible in octave 4 to 5

(agree?)

these have to be tweaked, and you can in the CP4 (I would love options for volume spectrum though).

I doubt yamaha will nail them all in every AP sound.
I already see myself not using some of the piano in the CP88 beacause of some gamebreaker, hand tied.

We needed more knobs on that piano section (or some deep editing page, even on a pc external software module!)
Posted By: Dave Ferris

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 04/28/19 01:40 AM

Originally Posted By: ziozeus

Piano sounds will always have flaws.

I have a CP4 and I well know that:

-Volume spectrum across the 88 notes: CFX miss some power in higher notes,
(agree?)


Agree.

Tonight I used my CP4 for the first time on a gig in months. It was a Jazzual at a Country Club out in Camarillo.

They gave me the option of playing the older Yamaha G3 that was there but I arrived 45 minutes in front of downbeat to check it out. First off it was white. Before I even touches it I thought to myself, when have you ever played a white piano that was well maintained and sounded good....like never ! After 15 seconds I came to the conclusion it was unplayable. The tuning was so out that no music could be made on that piano, by anyone.

Being prepared for such a situation, I had my CP4 in the car and humped that, along with one TT08A and my JMK Audio preamp into the place.

The sound running mono immediately sounded like major crap to me. I thought, ok it could be that even though I play this everyday, it's within a very controlled environment of my office with Senn HD650s. I haven't heard it in mono, through speakers, for sometime. Also, could have been because we were set up against a large glass window. Whatever the case I couldn't stand it. I went back to the car and brought in the other TT08A. I played some more with the eq, as well as experimented with the different mono CFX sounds. I got the tone better but still not good sounding. I was hearing some notes in the higher registers disappearing altogether. Along with a brittleness that I wasn't use to with the phones.

At this point I'm saying to myself- I wonder if the CP88 would sound better. idk

Not a good night for electronic keyboards. razz
Posted By: jimkost2002

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 04/28/19 07:14 AM

It was the glass window, Dave!
Iíve never been able to get the sound I wanted when playing in front of one, at best.
At worst, it was a total nightmare.
Posted By: Marillo

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 04/28/19 12:20 PM

I've owned the CP4 previously and now have a P515. I don't know if the CFX sample has been updated in the latter but it sounds better to me.
Posted By: Dave Ferris

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 04/29/19 01:17 AM

Jim, I'm certain setting up next to the glass was the major problem. It might have been the worse the CP4 has sounded in almost 5 years of ownership.

Marillo thanks. My friend Pete Calandra, who I posted all those clips on in the P-515 thread, said the same thing. And he also remarked that it feels closer to a real piano.

For gigs though, 48.5 lbs + even a lightweight case is getting up there. It would have to sound head and shoulders better then the CP4 (at 38.5 lbs.) coming through the TT08As for me to even consider taking it out.

I've had the CP4 back in the confines of my office and using the HD650s again. I've been playing it throughout the day. It's like a completely different instrument compared to what I was using last night.
Posted By: keyboardologist

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 05/02/19 12:25 PM

Today I went to the official Yamaha Distributor/Demo/Showroom/Store in Athnes, Greece. No CP73 or CP88 available for demo or stock in warehouse and no P121 available for demo or stock either.
Yamaha did a great job with portable 73keys this year but local distributor isn't interested enough, only available for orders.
Kurzweil dealer opened a brand new Artis 7 for demo, I got the chance to mess around for more than 2 hours, but I didn't get in touch with the action and some of my daily sounds, EPs and Hams were not really my taste, because of their gain/tube amp sound which sounded good for distorted rock sound but not for jazz/soul sweet sounding.
So, back to my problem, how am I going to invest on a Yamaha CP73, which has 1800euro here, without physical playing with a demo unit? I don't get it. How they are going to sell that thing if they don't advertise it by the official distributor/saler? I could only order the P121, by playing the P125 which is available for demo and I know it's the same machine so the action is fine by me, but how can I A/B the P125 keyboard action with the CP73? OK, let's see, CP73 has similar action with the Montage 8. So if I like Montage action I will be ok with CP73? What does similar means? What about the sounds and interface? Youtube and reviews? No. Not to mention localstore installment plan (up to 36 without extra interent rate) which I can not take advantage.

I can only find one possible solution, order it online through an International music e-shop, test it and return it on 30-day money back warranty and if it's ok, order it from local distributor via installments and wait a month or two to arrive.

Is that ok with Yamaha and shopping policies because I'm not feeling really ok with that...

Sorry for my bad English people!
Posted By: Adan

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 05/02/19 01:40 PM

Originally Posted By: keyboardologist
Today I went to the official Yamaha Distributor/Demo/Showroom/Store in Athnes, Greece. No CP73 or CP88 available for demo or stock in warehouse and no P121 available for demo or stock either.
Yamaha did a great job with portable 73keys this year but local distributor isn't interested enough, only available for orders.
Kurzweil dealer opened a brand new Artis 7 for demo, I got the chance to mess around for more than 2 hours, but I didn't get in touch with the action and some of my daily sounds, EPs and Hams were not really my taste, because of their gain/tube amp sound which sounded good for distorted rock sound but not for jazz/soul sweet sounding.
So, back to my problem, how am I going to invest on a Yamaha CP73, which has 1800euro here, without physical playing with a demo unit? I don't get it. How they are going to sell that thing if they don't advertise it by the official distributor/saler? I could only order the P121, by playing the P125 which is available for demo and I know it's the same machine so the action is fine by me, but how can I A/B the P125 keyboard action with the CP73? OK, let's see, CP73 has similar action with the Montage 8. So if I like Montage action I will be ok with CP73? What does similar means? What about the sounds and interface? Youtube and reviews? No. Not to mention localstore installment plan (up to 36 without extra interent rate) which I can not take advantage.

I can only find one possible solution, order it online through an International music e-shop, test it and return it on 30-day money back warranty and if it's ok, order it from local distributor via installments and wait a month or two to arrive.

Is that ok with Yamaha and shopping policies because I'm not feeling really ok with that...

Sorry for my bad English people!


CP73 feels very similar to the Montage. Could someone be ok with the feel of the Montage but not be ok with the feel of the CP? It's possible, but not likely.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 05/02/19 02:22 PM

Originally Posted By: Adan
CP73 feels very similar to the Montage.

Is that evaluaton from personal expeience?
Posted By: jimkost2002

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 05/02/19 02:55 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: Adan
CP73 feels very similar to the Montage.

Is that evaluaton from personal expeience?


Hereís an evaluation from personal experience:

Montage 8 and CP73 ARE similar but not identical.
Both are EXCELLENT actions with the CP having a bit more bounce and dig since thereís no afterouch strip in the CP.

I WOULD HAPPILY PLAY EITHER OF THESE AT ANYTIME!
Posted By: Adan

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 05/02/19 05:30 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: Adan
CP73 feels very similar to the Montage.

Is that evaluaton from personal expeience?


It is, though I've only played a Montage in a store. Similar, not identical, they're in the same ballpark. I think someone who's familiar with the Montage action and likes it could order a CP73 sight unseen and feel pretty confident they're going to like it as well. The likelihood you'd return it only because of the action is pretty small.
Posted By: jahfume

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 05/02/19 10:08 PM


So you are saying... you realy dig the key DIP on the Cp73 smile
Posted By: Dave Ferris

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 05/07/19 12:00 PM

Pete Calandra's agent here again. grin

On FB he posted an ambient type electronic film score using the CP73 and MODX. Not my particular thing but I hear it as being done tastefully and musically, and I like the visuals. I know many people here are into this type of thing..

Posted By: Dockeys

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 05/08/19 11:59 AM

Originally Posted By: Mighty Motif Max
Tried out the CP-88 over the last weekend. Liked what I heard. Electric pianos not my favorite, but everything else was pretty solid. Key action was a little heavier than I like but that's very subjective. I like that they have so many different pianos in it. And they brought back the S700. Wish they had the S6 from the Motif XF though, that one was great for ballads and worship music. The U1 upright was nice. Extra sounds were alright. The pads were definitely usable, wish there was more variety in the extra voices overall. But the ones there were were very nice.

The interface was "strange" but I never clicked with the Nord interface either. Forgot to try out the pitch and mod sticks (last board I checked before rushing out to an appointment). Build quality was very nice I thought. I don't like the feel of the toggle switches as I wonder about how they'd hold up long-term, just seemed a little thin.


Overall a nice board, not for me but nice.




I finally got to try out the CP88 at a local store yesterday and I'd echo a lot of Mighty Motif Max's comments. Acoustic pianos nice, I preferred the Imperial, I thought the CFX was a little harsh but I had to use headphones that weren't great quality. Tried some eq but I think the problem lay with the headphones.

EP's lovely but I'm a big fan of Yamaha EP's. However I didn't think they were that different or better than anything Ive tried on the Motif XS/XF/MODX.

Action? I liked it. Not as bouncy as the CP4. (I took me a long time to acclimatise to the CP4 action but I love playing it as a controller for Pianoteq). It's definitely geared towards acoustic piano playing.

Interface....jurys out on this. I don't like the Nord layout. I could just never gel with it...too many buttons. This seemed easier to navigate but it would need some time. Im not sure it would be great for multiple patch changes on say a musical gig. The on/off switches for each part are small and could be susceptible to breaking with heavy use.

The extra sounds are a bit of a let down...not in terms of quality but in terms of quantity. Pads are nice but but everything else just seems like an afterthought. Much more scope for extra voices on the CP4. I know, I know, Yamaha are going to provide extra voices down the line but I imagine they'll be extra pianos with the odd lead/pad/bass.

I had it in my mind that the CP73 would be ideal for me, nice pianos, great weight factor, people were touting the action as being very similar to the Montage 8. Unfortunately there was no 73 in stock but I did try the Montage 8 and that action was nice. Not sure if its any different to previous ES/XS/XF8 models but felt similar. The CP88 is too heavy and expensive for me and I'm not even sure Id get the CP73 now. It's nice for a piano/ep gig but its never going to be a handy all in one board (I know its not claiming to be) but at the price I'd probably be better off with an MODX8 or even a Casio PX S3000.

I tried an MODX8 a few days ag. Great sounds and big improvement from previous generations but the GHS actions seems so sluggish. It was like the keys stopped halfway down . After having the MOX8 and MOXF8 I dunno if I could go back to that. I might take a punt with the Casio and start using it with the iPad Pro and see how that goes.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 05/09/19 12:00 PM

Originally Posted By: Dockeys
Interface....jurys out on this. I don't like the Nord layout. I could just never gel with it...too many buttons. This seemed easier to navigate but it would need some time. Im not sure it would be great for multiple patch changes on say a musical gig.

For instant preset recall, you've got the favorites buttons on the left. I'm curious as to which boards have a style of interface you prefer.

Originally Posted By: Dockeys
The extra sounds are a bit of a let down...not in terms of quality but in terms of quantity.

Yeah, they're surpringly limited, making it I think an unlikely option as a one-and-only gigging board unless someone is primarily playing pianos, and similarly putting extra demands on your choice for something to pair it with, if you're going that route.
Posted By: ElmerJFudd

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 05/09/19 12:15 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: Dockeys
Interface....jurys out on this. I don't like the Nord layout. I could just never gel with it...too many buttons. This seemed easier to navigate but it would need some time. Im not sure it would be great for multiple patch changes on say a musical gig.

For instant preset recall, you've got the favorites buttons on the left. I'm curious as to which boards have a style of interface you prefer.

Originally Posted By: Dockeys
The extra sounds are a bit of a let down...not in terms of quality but in terms of quantity.

Yeah, they're surpringly limited, making it I think an unlikely option as a one-and-only gigging board unless someone is primarily playing pianos, and similarly putting extra demands on your choice for something to pair it with, if you're going that route.


Iím certain Yamaha has considered the conundrum of their customers in choosing CP88 or MODX8. You canít get everything the other has - choose or get both.

Remember when the CP1 lacked all the ancillary AWM stuff from the CP5 and 50?
Posted By: Dockeys

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 05/09/19 04:21 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: Dockeys
Interface....jurys out on this. I don't like the Nord layout. I could just never gel with it...too many buttons. This seemed easier to navigate but it would need some time. Im not sure it would be great for multiple patch changes on say a musical gig.

For instant preset recall, you've got the favorites buttons on the left. I'm curious as to which boards have a style of interface you prefer.

Originally Posted By: Dockeys
The extra sounds are a bit of a let down...not in terms of quality but in terms of quantity.

Yeah, they're surpringly limited, making it I think an unlikely option as a one-and-only gigging board unless someone is primarily playing pianos, and similarly putting extra demands on your choice for something to pair it with, if you're going that route.


Am used to the setlist feature of the Kronos and the generally bigger screen in more recent boards. I saw the live sets buttons but I didn't get a chance to play around with them.im sure given enough time I could learn to adjust to the layout. In theory I like the slightly stripped back nature of the cp series, in practice it might not work for me. YMMV. At any rate I only had about 25 minutes to play around with it, not nearly enough time.

Im a bit torn about the Modx8. I'm looking to get something lighter as the Kronos is proving too heavy for a lot of my gigs recently. The MODX8 I played in the store had a really shallow and almost lifeless action. Most unlike the previous Moxf and Mox ones which I had. I thought it was the same keybed? Perhaps the one in the store has been overplayed.

Anyway the search goes one....
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 05/09/19 04:35 PM

Originally Posted By: Dockeys
Am used to the setlist feature of the Kronos and the generally bigger screen in more recent boards. I saw the live sets buttons but I didn't get a chance to play around with them

They're just buttons you can assign whatever sound you want to (20 banks of the 8 buttons), basically like Kronos Set List slots, but unfortunately without the visual display of what sound is attached to them.

Originally Posted By: Dockeys
The MODX8 I played in the store had a really shallow and almost lifeless action. Most unlike the previous Moxf and Mox ones which I had. I thought it was the same keybed? Perhaps the one in the store has been overplayed.
The recurring question of what can make one GHS feel different from another...

Originally Posted By: Dockeys
Anyway the search goes one....

Maybe the forthcoming Kurzweill PC4?
Posted By: RickShapiro

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 05/10/19 03:48 PM

I loved this keyboard but man did Yamaha miss the mark. All they had to do was get some bread and butter sounds in one of the banks. Not a single brass ensemble patch. I played the CP77 and would have bought immediately if it was not for the fact I would have to lug around another synth to supplement about a dozen of sounds need through the night. Nord with the sampling library just kills this offering.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 05/10/19 04:39 PM

Originally Posted By: RickShapiro
I loved this keyboard but man did Yamaha miss the mark. All they had to do was get some bread and butter sounds in one of the banks. Not a single brass ensemble patch. I played the CP77 and would have bought immediately if it was not for the fact I would have to lug around another synth to supplement about a dozen of sounds need through the night.

Yeah, I'm surprised at the sonic gaps. On the bright side, it's also a 4-zone MIDI controller, so if you don't want to "lug around another synth" you also have the option of, for example, lugging merely an iPad and getting those missing sounds there (and there's a line input so you don't necessarily need a mixer or multi-input amp). Though for that, I wish it had a knob for controlling the volume of external sounds.
Posted By: RedKey

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 05/10/19 06:17 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Yeah, I'm surprised at the sonic gaps. On the bright side, it's also a 4-zone MIDI controller, so if you don't want to "lug around another synth" you also have the option of, for example, lugging merely an iPad and getting those missing sounds there (and there's a line input so you don't necessarily need a mixer or multi-input amp). Though for that, I wish it had a knob for controlling the volume of external sounds.


Even better... a single USB cable does MIDI & Audio even with iOS devices.
CP73 and iPhone/iPad running Galileo 2, Korg Module, & Model D is a killer.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 05/10/19 06:29 PM

Originally Posted By: RedKey
Even better... a single USB cable does MIDI & Audio even with iOS devices.

Cool. I thought it might, but I wasn't sure.
Posted By: Pa Gherkin

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 05/11/19 03:47 PM

Has anyone heard how it sounds in mono? Being a proponent of playing in mono live this is important to me. I'm leery because I had a Yamaha dp that was quite nice in stereo but truly awful in mono. I tried every possible mono configuration and it still stunk. However,I've got high hopes for the CP73.
Posted By: pauleway

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 05/13/19 02:46 PM

When using Organ mode, is there a way to use a footswitch to control the Rotary speed of the leslie instead of using the Modular toggle?
Posted By: Mighty Motif Max

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 05/13/19 03:14 PM

Originally Posted By: Pa Gherkin
Has anyone heard how it sounds in mono? Being a proponent of playing in mono live this is important to me. I'm leery because I had a Yamaha dp that was quite nice in stereo but truly awful in mono. I tried every possible mono configuration and it still stunk. However,I've got high hopes for the CP73.


Yes, my review in this thread was based on hearing it through a small Roland Cube amp in mono. You can read what I wrote to get an idea. I thought it was just fine in mono, better than my Motif XF for sure in that regard. smile
Posted By: Pa Gherkin

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 05/14/19 05:13 AM

Thank you Max. That's great to hear.
Posted By: RudyS

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 05/14/19 05:40 AM

Originally Posted By: pauleway
When using Organ mode, is there a way to use a footswitch to control the Rotary speed of the leslie instead of using the Modular toggle?


I don't know, but I really hope so. it's 2019, can't imagine this isn't possible...
Posted By: pauleway

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 05/14/19 02:20 PM

I own the Korg GrandStage-73, and there is no option to use a footswitch for the Rotary speed on the Korg GS, that is why I asked this question for the Yamaha CP. You think it would be a no brainer, but it is not!!
Posted By: Adan

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 05/14/19 02:29 PM

Originally Posted By: pauleway
When using Organ mode, is there a way to use a footswitch to control the Rotary speed of the leslie instead of using the Modular toggle?


You can assign any midi # to any controller, so probably? I feel no motivation at all to find out because the "leslie sim" on the CP is so bad. Like, inexplicably bad. There's much cheaper keyboards with a better leslie effect.

If I was going to use the CP as my only keyboard on a gig and needed organ, I'd use either the Korg Module or the Pocket B3 apps, both are far better than what's onboard the CP.
Posted By: Adan

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 05/14/19 02:30 PM

Originally Posted By: pauleway
I own the Korg GrandStage-73, and there is no option to use a footswitch for the Rotary speed on the Korg GS, that is why I asked this question for the Yamaha CP. You think it would be a no brainer, but it is not!!


The leslie sim on the Grandstage is useable, the one on the CP is not, in my opinion.
Posted By: pauleway

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 05/14/19 03:19 PM

The Leslie sim on the Grandstage or the Yam-CP are both NOT GOOD. I only use the Korg at home for practice and was curious if the CP had this option.(Always used a footswitch for my Rotary speed).
If you're looking for a good leslie sound, the Grandstage or the Yam.CP's are not the keyboards you want to use, and are not meant to be!
Posted By: Coker

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 05/14/19 06:52 PM

I am now using Galileo Organ 2 with my CP4 for organ patches. It works surprisingly well for organ layers and occasional B3 solos. I had to invest in the wireless MIDI adapter from Yamaha, though, because of ground loop problems with the iPad to CP4 connections. I assume the same fix would work with the CP88.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 05/14/19 08:11 PM

Originally Posted By: Coker
ground loop problems with the iPad to CP4 connections

I'm assuming this was with a USB connection (rather than 5-pin MIDI out of the MODX), and with the iPad simultaneously plugged into AC For staying charged?
Posted By: Coker

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 05/14/19 09:31 PM

Nope. iPad to CP4 with usb / camera adapter and then output from iPad earphone to CP4 aux input. Several people on internet have similar noise issues that they attribute to a ground loop. Using wireless MIDI eliminated the noise.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 05/14/19 09:50 PM

I'm surprised it would be a ground loop if the iPad wasn't plugged into AC.

I wonder if it would be different if you'd used a DIN MIDI connection out of the CP4 instead of the USB.
Posted By: Coker

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 05/14/19 10:45 PM

Hope we are not hijacking this thread, but according to other blogs, using the standard MIdI connector does not introduce the noise like the USB connector does. Noise was evident only when both USB and aux are connected to one device. This was not unique to Yamaha from what I could find.
Posted By: JimboKeys

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 05/15/19 10:47 AM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
I'm surprised it would be a ground loop if the iPad wasn't plugged into AC.

CP4 (audio) --> iPad --> CP4 (USB) = loop. Not 60Hz AC but 1kHz (to my ears) USB burst rate.

- Jimbo
Posted By: drawback

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 05/15/19 11:11 AM

Originally Posted By: Coker
Nope. iPad to CP4 with usb / camera adapter and then output from iPad earphone to CP4 aux input. Several people on internet have similar noise issues that they attribute to a ground loop. Using wireless MIDI eliminated the noise.


Would MIDI cable to PlugKey also have solved this?
Posted By: U.Honey

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 05/15/19 12:57 PM

Originally Posted By: drawback


Would MIDI cable to PlugKey also have solved this?


Yes. The 5-pin Ďold schoolí Midi has optical isolation so no ground loops.
Posted By: Pa Gherkin

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 05/29/19 12:18 AM

I have read this entire thread and the CP73/88 manual and might have missed this so I'll ask now. If I have another keyboard plugged into the audio inputs of the CP is the level of the other keyboard affected.by the CP's master volume control as it comes out of the CP's outputs? Also,same scenario,does the CP's master eq affect the tone of the instrument plugged into the CP's audio ins as it comes out of the CP's outputs? Anybody know?

One place Casio blew it with the PX5S audio ins is having the PX eq affect the tone of whatever is plugged into the inputs. I hope Yamaha didn't make the same mistake.
Posted By: Adan

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 05/29/19 05:48 PM

Yes, the master volume affects both internal sounds and audio input.

No, master eq does not affect audio input.
Posted By: Pa Gherkin

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 05/30/19 12:56 AM

Thanks Adan. That's good news and not the kind of thing that would be easy to investigate in a music store. I've got to get my hands on one of these. The 73 looks very interesting to me.
Posted By: ElmerJFudd

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 06/16/19 10:36 PM

Got to play the CP-88 yesterday at my local GC.
The NW-GH action is VERY nice and the keys feel great.
It's dead simple to operate. The piano section sounds lovely (U1 samples are a neat alernative), EPs are decent, fx sound good. The ancillary sounds section is lacking - if they would work on this it would be much harder to resist.
Well built, fairly compact for an 88k weighted and lighter to pickup than I thought it was going to feel at 18.6 kg (41 lb, 0 oz).

Tough call on choosing between this and the MODX8. The MODX8 action is lesser - entirely playable, but not as grand piano-like (ymmv), plasticy feeling keys. But the MODX is much more capable if you cover a lot of sounds and need to program for a set that is more than just bread and butter stuff. If the bank would allow I wouldn't mind owning the CP-88 and Montage 6 or Kronos 6. (Don't care for the action on the MODX6, it's better than the FA-06 but not by much).
Posted By: jahfume

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 06/17/19 01:18 AM


Elmer, I am afraid that you maybe turning in to a gear-slut!

Just think of the Planet man! That and enriching Supra-national corporations.

Don't worship at the shine of Yamwaha!
Posted By: ElmerJFudd

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 06/17/19 02:00 AM

Originally Posted by jahfume

Elmer, I am afraid that you maybe turning in to a gear-slut!

Just think of the Planet man! That and enriching Supra-national corporations.

Don't worship at the shine of Yamwaha!


Do not, fear for me, jahfume!
I’m a notorious window shopper with finances too weak to indulge my showroom playing habits. The planet is safe (for the moment). wink
Posted By: Dave Ferris

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 06/17/19 02:03 AM

Originally Posted by ElmerJFudd
Got to play the CP-88 yesterday at my local GC.
The NW-GH action is VERY nice and the keys feel great.
It's dead simple to operate. The piano section sounds lovely (U1 samples are a neat alernative), EPs are decent, fx sound good. The ancillary sounds section is lacking - if they would work on this it would be much harder to resist.
Well built, fairly compact for an 88k weighted and lighter to pickup than I thought it was going to feel at 18.6 kg (41 lb, 0 oz).

Tough call on choosing between this and the MODX8. The MODX8 action is lesser - entirely playable, but not as grand piano-like (ymmv), plasticy feeling keys. But the MODX is much more capable if you cover a lot of sounds and need to program for a set that is more than just bread and butter stuff. If the bank would allow I wouldn't mind owning the CP-88 and Montage 6 or Kronos 6. (Don't care for the action on the MODX6, it's better than the FA-06 but not by much).


Still haven't made it into a store to play this. So my only impression is still from NAMM, which really isn't fair. I'd guess they rectified the dead spots in the upper octaves from the CP4 - at least coming through gigging speakers. Not noticeable through phones or on recordings.

It probably sounds great out in a band of probably any context, I'd also wager a guess. I can't imagine Yamaha coming out with something to replace the CP4 that's a sonic dud live.

I'd be also curious to see how the P-515 compares with the CP88 live - Sound wise and sitting in the mix with a rhythm section, or larger ensemble with horns. Just playing at home solo and going again, on one play at NAMM, I did prefer the P-515. Although I could very well see the CP88 faring better in a live context.
Posted By: Sam McDermott

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 06/17/19 02:14 AM

Stopped into the local piano/keyboard store in town about two weeks ago, owners of which are Yamaha dealers, to see if they had gotten these in yet. They had an 88 but no 73, which was a bummer because I was most interested in the 73. Played the 88 and the action felt superb, which I have found to be the case for most Yamaha's I've played. APs sounded excellent, EPs were better than what I expected them to be. I would probably always be running them through with a dash of drive and some effects, but that's ok because the effects were pretty pleasing. APs and EPs are mostly what I would be using it for, maybe some pads or strings layered with a piano, but this seems to me like a great bottom board under a clone/synth.

Anyway, the 88 action felt great but I would be most interested in a 73 because of its portability. One of the guys in the shop said the action that is in the 73 comes from one of the Clavinova models. I hadn't been able to find anywhere that this was the case, but if so then I would put a lot more faith in the 73 action sight-unseen because of the quality of the new Clavinova's that I've played. Can anyone confirm this?
Posted By: dreamer65

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 06/17/19 06:35 AM

I played the CP88 in a store here recently since I!m looking for a new lighter live axe to supplement my E5D and to replace my P250. What I like compared to the 515 is that they have much more prof. rear in/out (XLR, power connectors etc.). However, no string resonance which is not understandable since 515 has it which may be limiting usage to band context.
Posted By: Sam McDermott

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 06/17/19 03:05 PM

Found a mint CP73 for a great price online, ordered it last night. Putting a lot of faith in Yamaha's action having not played it, but they haven't let me down yet. I already dig the sound quality, both from the demo videos and from playing the 88, so if this action holds up to Yamaha's standards I'll be very happy with this smile once it's here I'll share my thoughts.
Posted By: Adan

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 06/17/19 03:10 PM

I'm happy with the action on the CP73. It wasn't love at first touch, more like "I can live with this as a trade off for the portability." But it's growing on me the more I play it. Make no mistake though, it's a big step down from the action of the 88.

I prefer the action of the CP73 over the Grandstage 73, and it's 10 lbs lighter. But the GS has a vastly better sound palette beyond pianos.
Posted By: jimkost2002

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 06/18/19 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by halhertz

The CP88 is still a very good option for the gigging musician who is always on the move and needs something more portable. Having said, the RD2000 weighs only 6lbs (47lbs vs 41lbs) more than the CP88, but the action and tone generation tech in it is in my mind better than what's in the CP88.


Halhertz,
I understand portability and general ease of movement do not seem to be a concern for you.
One thing I need to point out regarding the above statement, though:

1) The RD is LONGER than the CP, which makes a HUGE difference in portability. That damned block which Roland INSISTS on slapping at the front end of ALL their keyboards makes a one person move nearly IMPOSSIBLE! Plus those six extra pounds can make all the difference between semi-portable and NO F***ING WAY at the end of 2 or 3 full sets.
Posted By: Dave Ferris

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 06/18/19 02:32 PM

The one time I used the RD-2000 in a studio environment with rhythm section and 3 horns - while it sounded excellent by itself before we started recording, when we started playing, the Roland was not present enough in the headphone mix, thus causing me to dig in and play harder from which I usually do. Which in turn caused tension and affected my technique.

I'd be willing to give it another try, for home maybe, but based on that experience, I wouldn't buy one to gig with.

Also when you figure in the extra poundage for even a lightweight case - that 47 lbs. all of a sudden is hovering around 60, or over. wink

And yes, the length is a huge consideration when trying to fit into tight spots, on crowded stages and overall schlep-ability.
Posted By: jimkost2002

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 06/18/19 03:48 PM


Originally Posted by Dave Ferris
The one time I used the RD-2000 in a studio environment with rhythm section and 3 horns - while it sounded excellent by itself before we started recording, when we started playing, the Roland was not present enough in the headphone mix, thus causing me to dig in and play harder from which I usually do. Which in turn caused tension and affected my technique.

I'd be willing to give it another try, for home maybe, but based on that experience, I wouldn't buy one to gig with.

Also when you figure in the extra poundage for even a lightweight case - that 47 lbs. all of a sudden is hovering around 60, or over. wink

And yes, the length is a huge consideration when trying to fit into tight spots or crowded stages.


Dave, spot on!
When I had one (briefly) I played it in a trio setting and it couldn’t cut through in ensemble parts, let alone soloing, no matter how i tweaked it. That’s when I was done.
EPs and controller options are its best features, but I would NEVER have lugged it out!
And since you’re primarily doing acoustic settings, I wouldn't if I were you smile
Posted By: keyboardologist

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 06/18/19 10:52 PM

Hello,

I am also interested on the CP73 which is compact with hammer action, mostly for my aps and eps , but since I play mostly soul/r&b/funk/rock covers on a band without guitar, I use some all-around synth sounds for splits, like synth lead for melody/solo, brass for kicks/melody/tuttis, horns for backing, etc.
One or two good Hammond sounds with Leslie are always enough for me, so no problem here I think.

Although I know CP73 is limited on those sounds, would it be possible to tweak some of its sounds via eq/time filters or effects to come close to other ones? I'm not really in need of acoustic sounds like sax, trumpet, etc, but something close to the feel and sound, even if it's "fake".

I really like layering Rhodes or wurlies with brass, for doing guitar riffs and clavs with softer leads for funk grooves/solos because either way you have strong attach, with power and heavyweight notes with infinite sustain if required!
Posted By: gg22

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 06/19/19 05:30 AM

Originally Posted by keyboardologist
Hello,

I really like layering Rhodes or wurlies with brass


That's an interesting combination.
Posted By: jimkost2002

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 06/19/19 11:30 AM

Fantastic review of CP88 on gearslutz, one of the most intelligent and insightful reviews of any gear that I have ever read:
Gearslutz CP 88 review
Posted By: Dockeys

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 06/20/19 11:00 AM

I just spent 30 minutes with the cp73 this morning. I played the 88 and it was nice but I had bad headphones and no sustain pedal and itís a little too heavy for me. The CP73 has been on my radar for a while because of its form factor. I thought the action was really nice. It didnít feel like the hammer action of the Motif 88 range, a little looser perhaps? Iíve read that itís similar to the montage 8 but I havenít tried that so canít compare. For me it felt like a cross between a Kronos 73/88 and maybe one of the Nord pianos......in a good way as I know there are a lot of people who donít like the Kronos action.

The controls seems pretty easy to get around, which is something as itís obviously very Nord in its approach and Iíve never taken to the nord interface. Itís pretty basic in terms of the variety of each sound. Only a few pianos, electric pianos etc. But Itís easy to get the sound you want from dialling in the effects. Iíve said it before but the extra sounds are minimal and I wonder how much more Yamaha will add when they make the newer downloadable sounds.

What I came away with most was the size. I have the Kronos 73 and I like the size of that but not the weight. Plus Korg, like Roland, put the joystick at the end rather than the top corner adding more width to the machine. The CP73 really is compact. Would I buy one? Dunno...I just picked up a Casio S3000 and got a super price on a B stock modx8. I love Yamaha pianos but not enough to buy another one. Iím going to spend some time with the Modx8 as thatís a beast and I think I can live with the action on that. I played on in a store a few months ago and didnít like tha action but the one I picked up is fine so perhaps the one in the store was played to death or damaged. Anyway the cp73 is really really nice to play, sounds lovely and is small and light. I kept picking it up to check the weight as it feels so sturdy when youíre playing it. Again these are only my opinions after 30 minutes. Not near enough time plus I havenít gigged with one but I think itís a fine machine....now if it had the modx engine.........
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 06/20/19 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by Dockeys
I just spent 30 minutes with the cp73 this morning...I thought the action was really nice. It didnít feel like the hammer action of the Motif 88 range...Iíve read that itís similar to the montage 8 but I havenít tried that so canít compare.

I think the Montage 8 and Motif 88 range had the same actions.... so if not like the one, not like the other either.
Posted By: Sam McDermott

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 06/23/19 08:32 PM

My CP73 was delivered yesterday and it's everything I wanted it to be. I'll be using it for APs and EPs under a Numa Organ 2 or Mopho x4, and it meets all my needs. Love the raw samples, but the effects are killer and will be seeing a lot of use from me. I'm coming from an SV1 88, on which the Rhodes and Wurli I adored (when being run through the amp sim), the acoustic pianos were ok, and the action was always a bit heavy to me, but I got used to it. The CP delivers what I consider better sounding everything and the same mix of great effects at a MUCH lighter weight (which was my main reason for getting the CP). As far as the action goes, I REALLY dig it. Better for playing EPs than the SV, very responsive and on the lighter side. Love it for the grands and uprights as well. It just has the quality feel you would expect from a Yamaha keybed. Since I already have organ and synth covered with other instruments, I don't feel like I "settled" for anything with this instrument and can't wait to start gigging with it and dialing in some great sounds.
Posted By: Dukerbud88

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 06/24/19 03:59 PM

Sorry for the repeated post but someone told me my post might be more relevant here.

Why I bought the CP88 (long-winded review/statement)

For my history, I have previously owned a Roland A90 Piano/Midi controller and a Yamaha Clavinova PF-100 (circa 1994) and I got incredible amount of use from both but due to personal changes in my life I thought it was time to upgrade since I havenít had anything new for almost 25 years.
Just so everyone knows, I am not biased with any company whatsoever.

Fast forward to Nov/2018 where I purchased a Nord Piano 4. Absolutely LOVED the sound however, there was a huge issue with the keybed as it was making more noise than it should. To the point upon release of the keys the noise would resonate through my mic and through my L1 compact. Not acceptable.

After many views Youtube comparison videos and personal demoing in my local music stores I was undecided between the Korg Grandstage, Korg Kronos, Roland RD 2000, Yamaha CP4, Korg Krome nd the Roland FA-08.
All great pianos/workstations so it was a matter of sound, versatility and of course the keybed.

So, back in April I my local store had a CP88 so I jumped on. They had it running through a small Fender amp and even with that I got soooo sooo excited Ö.just as I did my Nord. So, when that excitement hits, instinctively I go with it. Plus, the keybed/action was just so soooo amazing that the decision was made there and then. So, traded in my Nord Piano 4 it in for my new love, the CP88. Unfortunately they only had the floor model so they gave me their floor model as a loaner until the new one came in.

So, as far as sound. I will admit I am not as happy with the piano sounds themselves compared to the Nord but with some tweaking with the EQ I have got 3 amazing piano sounds that I am very very happy with. The CFX has this sort of tinny sound to it and I will admit I thought the CFX on the CP4 was a bit better. However, the Imperial, S700 and the upright U1 are truly amazing. A little tweaking and you can basically get a great sound out of it.
The CP80/70 sample is definitely comparable to the Nord (which I use quite a bit in my set) so apart from the bug thatís going to b fixed this coming September it sounds absolutely incredible.
The Wurlitzer (especially with Aprilís update) totally blows the Nord away. I am just so so happy with it as it really helps with my Supertramp/10cc tunes that I use in my setlist.

The keybed, Well, it truly came down to the CP4, the RD2000 and the CP88. The CP4 was great for sure as was the RD2000 but after a number of jumps between the CP88 and the RD 2000 I found the RD was a little heavier than the CP88 and the CP4 was a little lighter so the CP88 was the perfect balance between the two. As weird as it sounds (no pun) I feel my playing has actually improved on the CP88. Songs that I had a hard time playing before (Tony Banksí Lamb intro and Firth Of Fifth plus some blues scales for example) are coming much more easier. Weird how that works.

Yes, there are only 57 sounds with the CP88 as opposed to the NP4 and yes you can load samples into the NP4 but I had to be practical within myself. I use Logic Pro X for a trillion sounds that I can trigger so for home use/editing/sequencing for backing tracks the limitation of the sounds in the CP88 is not limiting to me at all. Plus, one has to ask themselvesÖÖor myselfÖhow many sounds does one actually need? I mean seriouslyÖthese are stage pianos. I usually get between 3-5 gigs per month and I do not use more than 4-5 sounds within my 40 song setlist. So itís basically, Acoustic Piano, CP80, Wurli, Rhodes and a AP with a combined Ample Acoustic Guitar (triggered through my laptop) /Piano sounds. The rest are just icing on the cake.
Ok, the other pianos may give you way more sounds but in all honesty, many of them are just different variations of the same sample, Don't let 1000 sounds fool you into thinking you're getting 1000 samples because you're not.

Now, thatís just me and I canít speak for anyone elseís needs as everyone has different needs and requirements.

I also love the fact that I do not have to use my M-Audio interface anymore as the CP88 has a USB audio interface built in so with that and my upcoming purchase of a Yamaha MG10XU mixer (USB audio interface) going through my Bose L1 Compact system will be the perfect match for me.

So this whole notion that CP88 blows this out of the waterÖor The RD2000 feels better or the Nord Pianos sound so much better is total nonsense. It is ALL down to personal taste for personal needs.

I will say for price, keybed, versatility (again depending on your needs), sound and weight (yes I can actually carry the piano in my gig bag with one hand) the CP88 is hard to beatÖ.but thatís just me.

Finally, I will say buying a piano is actually worse than buying a house or a car. Very stressful at times and we always want to make the "right" purchase. Yes, you can watch a trillion Youtube videos, read all of their comments, jump on the forums, get a a thousand different opinions and yes it helps but many times it can actually confuse you even more and also cause ulcers...LOL.
Itís best to think of your own needs and try not to let anyoneís opinions (comments) sway you but your own.

Cost/price aside there will ALWAYS be pluses and minuses to any of these pianos and if I had to do it all over again I would have waited until April this year before purchasing the Nord and maybe taken more time to study as itís been 9-10 months to land to where I am now.

I hope my experience/review will resonate with anyone who is undecided in purchasing the CP88 or any other piano for that matter.

Now get out there and get a CP88!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You wonít regret itÖ.LOL!!!
Posted By: Outkaster

Re: Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread - 06/24/19 05:57 PM

One of the stage techs locally I know runs the audio at the local GC. I would buy for them in the past but now with this sales tax thing it makes hunting for keyboards of this price range about the same anywhere. He said in inventory the larger markets get first dibs, especially if they move Yamaha stock well. Also the stores get gear based on size so from what he told me there are 13 88 or 73 CP models floating around out there. I guess I will have to wait. I never want to pay MSRP for anything. I never had to in the past.
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