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Yamaha MODX

Posted By: engineerjoel

Yamaha MODX - 09/07/18 11:47 AM

Posted By: johnchop

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/07/18 11:49 AM

wut
Posted By: Markyboard

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/07/18 12:03 PM

Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/07/18 12:57 PM

he's merely predicting my future ... except its MONX. err MOTX? MNTX? aww, who cares. MODX it is!

just need to add the traditional Yammy 4 x 16 program select buttons array in bottom just to the right of the touchscreen and he's got it. he is 15 months ahead of the official launch, OP has plenty of time to fix the layout smile.

i want that throbbing superknob - not that i'll do alot of sonic morphing etc like the cool EDM hipster cats, but i can preset the pulse rate to the tempo of songs that i start alone on keys smile.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/07/18 01:29 PM

Originally Posted By: MotiDave
hjust need to add the traditional Yammy 4 x 16 program select buttons

I like those too... but if they were to come out with a budget touchscreen model, I could see them using the touchscreen for all button functions rather than keeping the hard buttons as well.

I feel pretty well set with my gear these days. But if there were a 7x version of that with aftertouch that weighed well under 30 lbs, I'd have to get it anyway. ;-)
Posted By: stoken6

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/07/18 03:19 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
But if there were a 7x version of that with aftertouch that weighed well under 30 lbs, I'd have to get it anyway. ;-)


I rather fear that if you're Korg, Yamaha or Roland, you get aftertouch on your flagship (Kronos, Montage - erm, A800Pro?) and nowhere else. Even Kurzweil, who were my heroes for retaining aftertouch and internal PSU on the PC3LE, have dropped it on newer non-flagship boards.

My first board was an Alpha Juno 2 - not a flagship, but one of the nicest actions I've ever tried.

Cheers, Mike.
Posted By: ElmerJFudd

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/07/18 05:33 PM

You can get the Yamaha Genos in 76k.
Itís just as expensive as f@ck.
At some point the Montage tech will trickle into the MOX area.
But I donít expect it too soon.
Posted By: SeaGtGruff

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/08/18 08:59 PM

The MODX is a thing. Apparently there are 61-, 76-, and 88-key versions. They haven't been announced by Yamaha yet, but now that the news has been leaked it probably won't be too long before it's official. smile

EDIT: PS-- I understand that it's expected in at least one UK store just after the middle of September, as in less than 2 weeks from now.

https://yamahamusicians.com/the-new-modx-keyboard-from-yamaha-raising-the-bar-for-mid-range-synths/

EDIT #2: I guess I should have said "online UK retailer" (gear4music?). I don't know when it's expected to be in any brick-and-mortar stores.

EDIT #3,462: https://www.gear4music.com/Keyboards-and-Pianos/Yamaha-MODX7-Synthesizer-Keyboard/2NRS
Posted By: MIDI2XS

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/08/18 09:08 PM

Stirring the pot...

https://yamahamusicians.com/forum/viewto...3320e082bfabc79
By the way, fccid.io is not a Federal Communications Commission website.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:RPjSL-VnnGgJ:https://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-MODX8-88-Key-Weighted-Synthesizer/dp/B07GKB1TXG%2Byamaha+modx
Note that...
There is a newer model of this item:
Yamaha MOXF8 Music Production Workstation
$1,699.99


wave
Posted By: KeyMoe

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/08/18 09:09 PM

Cool!
Posted By: ElmerJFudd

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/08/18 09:16 PM



Weíll slap me silly and call me Sally.
I canít believe this much Montage has trickled down to sub $2k.
Big AWM2 + FMX and the motion seq stuff with the knob.
Posted By: zephonic

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/08/18 09:43 PM

If this is real, Iím glad I didnít spring for the MOXF. I see a MODX8 replacing my MX88 as soon as it comes out.

Now I just need Roland to make a flagship 76íer and all will be right in the world.


edit:
it says 28-voice AWM2 polyphony? Thatís stingy, even though it has 64-voice FM polyphony. But the piano and ep will be AWM2, and thatís where you really need a little more than 28, Iíd think.
Also, since we only see a 76-key, maybe they plan to sell that alongside the MOXF for the time being, until sales of the latter slow down.

Posted By: piano39

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/08/18 10:23 PM



edit:
it says 28-voice AWM2 polyphony? Thatís stingy, even though it has 64-voice FM polyphony. But the piano and ep will be AWM2, and thatís where you really need a little more than 28, Iíd think.
Also, since we only see a 76-key, maybe they plan to sell that alongside the MOXF for the time being, until sales of the latter slow down.

[/quote]

First thing that I noticed was the 28 note polyphony on the AWM2 side. I am guessing that is a typo and they meant to say 128 note polyphony??? This thing is loaded with performances, which suck up a lot of voices.
Posted By: ElmerJFudd

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/08/18 10:57 PM

Not sure if there is a 61 or 88k version. This poster talks of a 76 note semi weight.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/yamahamusic...nge-synths/amp/
Posted By: SeaGtGruff

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/08/18 10:58 PM

Yeah, I saw that and thought/hoped the same thing. I mean, when was the last time you saw a maximum polyphony on a keyboard that wasn't a multiple of 16 or 24? If it really is supposed to be 28 and not 128, that would be a huge step backward.

EDIT: According to that Gear4Music ad (see link in previous post),

Quote:
The MODX7 Synth also includes 1GB of integrated flash memory and 192-note total polyphony.


So that must mean it has 128-note AWM2 polyphony plus 64-note FM-X polyphony.
Posted By: SeaGtGruff

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/08/18 11:18 PM

Based on the expected delivery dates mentioned in the Gear4Music ad, I wonder if Yamaha was planning to unveil the MODX next week at the NAMM Musikmesse Russia (which I had no idea was a thing until I searched Googled Binged for "is there a musical instrument show in september 2018"):

https://www.tradefairdates.com/NAMM-Musikmesse-Russia-M12720/Moscow.html
Posted By: MAJUSCULE

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/08/18 11:31 PM

Whoa, it's real? Damn. I could replace my NE3 as my top tier for cover gigs. Control the SP6's KB3 with it. Mmm. Yeah.

Oh wait, I need money for that. Meh.
Posted By: Al Coda

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/08/18 11:50 PM

Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Not sure if there is a ... 88k version.


It will come sooner or later

A.C.
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/09/18 01:25 AM

Originally Posted By: SeaGtGruff
Yeah, I saw that and thought/hoped the same thing. I mean, when was the last time you saw a maximum polyphony on a keyboard that wasn't a multiple of 16 or 24? If it really is supposed to be 28 and not 128, that would be a huge step backward.

EDIT: According to that Gear4Music ad (see link in previous post),

Quote:
The MODX7 Synth also includes 1GB of integrated flash memory and 192-note total polyphony.


So that must mean it has 128-note AWM2 polyphony plus 64-note FM-X polyphony.
Iím sure the 28 was a typo. Montage was advertíd as 128 Stereo note polyphony - i didnít quite wrap my head around how that helps more than 128 note polyph. I imagine MODX is the same as Montage.
Posted By: Six-string-man

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/09/18 06:29 AM

Originally Posted By: SeaGtGruff


EDIT #2: I guess I should have said "online UK retailer" (gear4music?). I don't know when it's expected to be in any brick-and-mortar stores.




Gear4Music IS a brick-and-mortar store, as well as an online entity. They have a very large store with attached warehouse just off the York ring road. OK, it's not Sweetwater sized, but still.......
Posted By: SeaGtGruff

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/09/18 06:45 AM

That makes sense! smile Which is probably why I didn't think of it.
Posted By: Markyboard

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/09/18 10:11 AM

My insight into upcoming synths is right up there with my Fantasy Football picks.
idk mad HeadPop
Posted By: MIDI2XS

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/09/18 11:54 AM

Submitted without further comment...
https://au.yamaha.com/en/support/updates/modx_os_updater.html
Posted By: ElmerJFudd

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/09/18 01:01 PM

Originally Posted By: MIDI2XS


Wow, I can't believe how much Montage is in this half priced gigging model.
I think I said that already. crazy
Posted By: CEB

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/09/18 01:22 PM

Keyboard don't look right. Maybe it is the perspective angle or the photo but the keys look short.
Posted By: CEB

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/09/18 01:24 PM

When I bitch about small keys I'm talking like 86% of full size. That is enough to ruin key leverage.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/09/18 02:03 PM

I would guess it's the piaggero action, unless they've come up with something new.
Posted By: SeaGtGruff

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/09/18 07:17 PM

Someone whose lips are sealed about just what he does know has said that the launch event isn't going to be at NAMM Musikmesse Russia. So hopefully my idle, wild, and wanton speculation about NAMM Musikmesse Russia (in three different forums, no less) hasn't misled a crowd of people to book flights to Russia for said event, only to discover that I was wrong!

By the way, the Gear4Music page seems to have been taken down now.
Posted By: MIDI2XS

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/10/18 01:03 AM

I remember the "leaks" before the Montage's official introduction...
http://www.motifator.com/index.php/forum/viewthread/476570/
Many of the links in that very long thread are dead, similar to what's happening with the MODX.

Initially there was a lot of conjecture about whether the Montage was the Motif XF's successor. For those of us wanting a truly self-contained workstation, it turned out not to be. I wonder if the MOXF will have a similar fate. Visually impaired users might find the apparently significant dependence on a touch screen to be a real impediment. Perhaps Yamaha will include voice guidance.
Posted By: SeaGtGruff

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/10/18 01:31 AM

It seems that the Gear4Music link that I posted is still good. I may have been on the "US version" of their site by mistake and couldn't find search results for "MODX." I'm not sure what was going on, but the link is still working.

Actually, I just realized that it now says the MODX7 is currently not available for purchase, whereas before it said that it was and showed expected delivery dates. So maybe they just took the page down temporarily to change it?
Posted By: The_Star_Guy

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/10/18 08:19 AM

Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd


Weíll slap me silly and call me Sally.
I canít believe this much Montage has trickled down to sub $2k.
Big AWM2 + FMX and the motion seq stuff with the knob.


I have to admit that I am intrigued by this. I love FM in general, and 5.67Gb of waveform ROM, 1 Gb Flash RAM, 8 operator FM-X & Expanded multi-channel USB audio interface,to name but a few improvements are hard to ignore!

Does anyone know if Montage now supports direct imports of 6 Operator FM Voices yet?
Posted By: MIDI2XS

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/10/18 08:38 AM

Originally Posted By: The_Star_Guy
[...] Does anyone know if Montage now supports direct imports of 6 Operator FM Voices yet?

Indirectly via a web app.
https://usa.yamaha.com/products/music_production/synthesizers/montage/compatibility.html
https://www.yamahasynth.com/yamaha-fm-converter
Posted By: pjd

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/10/18 10:01 AM

I posted a MODX vs. Montage comparison table at:

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/yamaha-modx-vs-montage/

along with a few observations. I also saved the original leaked content at:

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/yamaha-modx-real-or-hoax/

Leaked pages always have a way of disappearing. :-)

All the best -- pj
Posted By: The_Star_Guy

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/10/18 11:15 AM

Originally Posted By: MIDI2XS
Originally Posted By: The_Star_Guy
[...] Does anyone know if Montage now supports direct imports of 6 Operator FM Voices yet?

Indirectly via a web app.
https://usa.yamaha.com/products/music_production/synthesizers/montage/compatibility.html
https://www.yamahasynth.com/yamaha-fm-converter



I was aware of this option, but I still strongly prefer onboard native import conversion ability, in case I need to import voices during a gig, etc.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/10/18 12:24 PM

Importing voices during a gig? Really?
Posted By: Synthoid

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/10/18 12:34 PM

Yeah... I'm ready to roll when I show up for a gig. rockit
Posted By: Bif_

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/10/18 12:37 PM

Well, this thing came along much faster than anyone imagined. That seems rather telling to me and may indicate the lack of success of the Montage.

The Montage at its price point is a premium product with a unique niche compared to everyone else's flagship offering. IMO, that limits its interest in the market place.

With the lower price of the MODX, I bet this will be a real winner for Yamaha.

Again, my main observation is that it hit the market so soon.
Posted By: engineerjoel

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/10/18 12:39 PM

It's for Real! comes in 61/76/88 versions
Posted By: Stokely

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/10/18 12:40 PM

Has Yamaha put a decent organ in any of their boards yet? I might still be using my Motif for gigs if it wasn't for that...

Not looking for a Mojo competitor, heck just want a cx3/Kurzweil/roland VR level of organ and especially leslie sim.
Posted By: Synthoid

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/10/18 12:44 PM

Originally Posted By: Bif_
this thing came along much faster than anyone imagined. That seems rather telling to me and may indicate the lack of success of the Montage.


Well think about it... it's been almost three years since the Montage was introduced at NAMM 2016. Definitely time to refresh the aging MOXF series.

Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/10/18 01:01 PM

Originally Posted By: Stokely
Has Yamaha put a decent organ in any of their boards yet? I might still be using my Motif for gigs if it wasn't for that...

Not looking for a Mojo competitor, heck just want a cx3/Kurzweil/roland VR level of organ and especially leslie sim.


Most Montage reviewers have said organ was a bit better than XF but wouldn't confuse anyone with an actual clone. My take is it'd meet my limited hammond need but is a poor choice for any true b3 player. This will only have 4 sliders that could be assigned as drawbars for starters ...
Posted By: ap297

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/10/18 04:30 PM

Lack of a "decent" organ would likely be the only reason I would hesitate to buy it. Yamaha with its outstanding technical staff could engineer decent organ sounds....
Posted By: Mighty Motif Max

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/10/18 04:33 PM

Originally Posted By: engineerjoel



I see transport controls. Maybe they didn't remove the sequencer? Please??


Edit: Sigh...the pitch and mod wheels are above. Why...
Posted By: GregC

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/10/18 04:46 PM

Originally Posted By: Bif_
Well, this thing came along much faster than anyone imagined. That seems rather telling to me and may indicate the lack of success of the Montage.



With the lower price of the MODX, I bet this will be a real winner for Yamaha.

Again, my main observation is that it hit the market so soon.


lets follow the bouncing ball

The Montage is too expensive.

The MODX will be a hit

But it hit the market to soon

There must be an ambiguous noun in there some where
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/10/18 05:01 PM

Originally Posted By: Mighty Motif Max
I see transport controls. Maybe they didn't remove the sequencer? Please??

Edit: Sigh...the pitch and mod wheels are above. Why...


I'm not a Montage expert, but my understanding is Montgae doesn't have a sequencer as most would think of it (16-track midi recorder). I think it can "play" things you load in - maybe that is all those transport buttons do?

Edit Answer: so its shorter? I'm hopeful for that, if I can get a MODX7 into a shorter case that doesn't exceed airlines 50" oversize rule - wahoo! length and weight are two key specs I'm waiting to see.

Motif XF was 49", can't put it in a case and stay under 50". plus weight of 38 lbs requires a more substantial travel case to protect it from airline monkeys. Impossible to stay under 50 lbs there - so double fail on the airline oversize/weight limits. My MOXF6 flies in an SKB molded case (combined MOXF6 + case ~ 35 lbs).

if I could somehow get an MODX7 in a case under those two limits - game changer for me. tbd ...
Posted By: Six-string-man

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/10/18 05:05 PM

Originally Posted By: Mighty Motif Max
[quote=engineerjoel





Edit: Sigh...the pitch and mod wheels are above. Why...




When people complain about boards, a lot of them ask for a shorter width. Hence all the posts saying "why don't they make a 7x version........"

Placing the pitch and mod wheels above the keys is an obvious way of making any board shorter.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/10/18 05:06 PM

Originally Posted By: Bif_
Well, this thing came along much faster than anyone imagined. That seems rather telling to me and may indicate the lack of success of the Montage.

I don't know... It was three years from Motif XF to MOXF announcements, and we're now coming up on 3 years since the Montage (in January), not so different.

Originally Posted By: Mighty Motif Max
Sigh...the pitch and mod wheels are above.

Yay...the pitch and mod wheels are above!
Posted By: zephonic

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/10/18 05:09 PM

For an 88 I donít mind the pitch/mod above the keys. For a synth action Iíd prefer it to the side, but the airplane argument resonates with me.

If I could stick a 76 in a soft case as carry-on, itís an acceptable tradeoff.

But Iíll most likely get the 88 anyway. I do hope theyíll replace the GHS with the GH, or whatever is in the CP40. Thatíd be awesome, Montage piano, lightweight, good action...aw sót...
Posted By: The_Star_Guy

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/10/18 05:17 PM

Originally Posted By: Mighty Motif Max


I see transport controls. Maybe they didn't remove the sequencer? Please??


Edit: Sigh...the pitch and mod wheels are above. Why...

As I understand it, the full sequencer from the Motif\MOX\MOXF series was removed, but it still has extensive onboard Arpeggio capabilities (over 10,000 with up to 8 arpeggio parts simultaneously) as well as "Motion sequencing"....
Posted By: Bif_

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/10/18 05:27 PM

Originally Posted By: GregC
Originally Posted By: Bif_

Again, my main observation is that it hit the market so soon.


But it hit the market to soon



Just read the words I actually wrote. It makes a little more sense. boing boing
Posted By: Stokely

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/10/18 05:40 PM

Originally Posted By: ap297
Lack of a "decent" organ would likely be the only reason I would hesitate to buy it. Yamaha with its outstanding technical staff could engineer decent organ sounds....


Yep, I'm sure we all have our own idea of "decent enough"...mine would be somewhere around where my pc3 is or even where my Roland VR-700 was. Neither of those would be a choice for a "real" organ player but the Roland especially sounded fine in a rock band setting. Yamaha has just chosen to ignore that aspect of keyboarding, I guess they know their market better than I do...just stinks that I happen to be one of the (few, I guess) people that needs that for a gigging do-everything keyboard.
Posted By: zephonic

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/10/18 05:45 PM

Iím a little concerned about the position of the master volume and input volume knobs. Seems easy to grab the wrong one in the heat of the moment...




Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/10/18 08:06 PM

Where is the volume? Not a fader like all recent yamaha boards? I like a fader for volume ...

------------

In my email inbox from Yamaha ...

READY FOR SOMETHING NEW?
Join us via Facebook Live at facebook.com/yamahasynths on September 14, 2018 at 1 p.m. (EDT) for an exciting new product announcement with live performances by Yamaha artists Nicholas Semrad, Domi Degalle and special guest, Richard Devine. Included the link below ...

Link to Yamaha livestream announcement ...

Special Yamaha Synthesizer LIVESTREAM Event: Friday, September 14, 1PM/1300 Eastern Daylight Time ... (blah blah ...)
Posted By: MIDI2XS

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/10/18 08:32 PM

Originally Posted By: MotiDave
Where is the volume? Not a fader like all recent yamaha boards? I like a fader for volume ...

Upper left, rotary control.
Posted By: mildbill

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/10/18 08:46 PM

No aftertouch, no release velocity. 1/3 of a keyboard IMO.

Other than that, it sounds pretty good.
Posted By: ElmerJFudd

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/11/18 12:34 AM

Roland did similar watering down of the Jupiter-80 to 50.
Dropping after touch is silly (imho).
I canít make out the back of the unit... is there an expression pedal input?
Posted By: MIDI2XS

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/11/18 01:24 AM

Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
[...]Dropping after touch is silly (imho).

It's been standard practice for Yamaha. The Motifs have aftertouch, the MO models don't. To get all the features you have to pay the price for the flagship model.


Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
I canít make out the back of the unit... is there an expression pedal input?

As best I can tell, besides the USB connectors, left to right it's...
MIDI OUT
MIDI IN
FOOT SWITCH ASSIGNABLE
FOOT SWITCH SUSTAIN
FOOT CONTROLLER 2
FOOT CONTROLLER 1
OUTPUT R
OUTPUT L/MONO
PHONES
A/D INPUT R
A/D INPUT L/MONO

So it appears there are two inputs for a continuous pedal.
Posted By: mojkarma

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/11/18 07:57 AM

Originally Posted By: MIDI2XS
It's been standard practice for Yamaha. The Motifs have aftertouch, the MO models don't. To get all the features you have to pay the price for the flagship model.


Actually, that is the standard practice for every single manufacturer out there with (almost) no exception. Korg, Roland, Nord, they all do it.
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/11/18 09:49 AM

I would expect AT is an immediate obvious place to reduce PPV cost in order to deliver a value-priced line to the market.

Iím ok without AT - I have it on my XF and used it on still just one song in now 7 years. MODX7 may be the board that gets me to sell my still-cherry XF7 although that sounds like a total hassle. Maybe one of my kids will develop a musical zeal and i can just gift it down. So far ... one loves dance and one loves xbox.
Posted By: Reezekeys

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/11/18 10:11 AM

IMO: no release velocity is not that much of an issue to me, however my hat is off to anyone that really makes use of it - I tried a few times, but the ability to vary my "key-off" technique is just not that good. I'd be curious to know if there really are a decent number of keyboardists that use rv.

And aftertouch... again imo - the "reduce cost" argument doesn't hold much water with me. I have no first hand knowledge of what that strip of pressure sensing felt along the bottom of a keybed might cost, but can't imagine it being more than a couple of quid at most. To me it's strictly a marketing decision to make keyboardists who really need AT (like myself) spend the extra hundreds of dollars (or more) to buy the next tier of keyboards.
Posted By: ElmerJFudd

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/11/18 10:43 AM

Itís not much. So few are offering poly after touch to begin with. The pressure strip for mono AT is just to differentiate between the flagship and more affordable giggerís instrument.
Posted By: jefsco

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/11/18 11:08 AM


yamaha just keeps cranking keyboards out lately.... like
Posted By: Legatoboy

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/11/18 11:15 AM

The organs in the MX-88 were better than the previous ones Yamaha had in their boards up to and including the original CP boards...I sold the MX for an SP6 (I'm very happy BTW). The new Yamaha organs were more usable with a better Leslie Sim, still not up to Kurzweil KB3 though or Korg CX-3 (the CX-3 being the best of those imho)... also the ones in the original Montage I noticed in my weekly playing of that ax in GC close to work, they are better also than previous with a bit more grind and better sim. in them but nothing to write home about!
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/11/18 12:39 PM

Originally Posted By: Reezekeys
IMO: no release velocity is not that much of an issue to me, however my hat is off to anyone that really makes use of it - I tried a few times, but the ability to vary my "key-off" technique is just not that good. I'd be curious to know if there really are a decent number of keyboardists that use rv.

I'd say RV is not for consciously "using." It's for programming in sounds (or taking advantage of factory-programmed sounds) that better respond to your touch. For example, a real piano decay sounds different if you release the key very slowly than it does on a normal lift (assuming the sustain pedal is not depressed). Therefore, playing slowly and softly on a keyboard that can sense release velocity could provide a more authentic piano sound. So it's not that you intentionally lift more slowly when you want that sound; rather it's that, when you naturally play more softly and slowly, you can better get the sound you'd want when playing that way. Or for string passages, you might want more abrupt decays when you're playing quickly/aggressively, and a slightly longer decay when moving among notes more slowly. (I am using "decay" in these examples to refer to what, in synth terms, would happen in the "release" phase, and that is what can be altered with release velocty.)
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/11/18 12:45 PM

Originally Posted By: Legatoboy
The organs in the MX-88 were better than the previous ones Yamaha had in their boards up to and including the original CP boards

That's interesting, I was under the impression that the MX and CP sounds were all taken from the Motif XS. Maybe some effects differences?

Originally Posted By: Legatoboy
also the ones in the original Montage...are better also than previous with a bit more grind and better sim

The older S30/S80 had a great tube organ sound. I could not duplicate it in the XS/XF environment. The tube overdrive effect was better in the old series. I haven't played a Montage yet, I'd be curious to know if the Montage/MODX compares.
Posted By: benj2017

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/11/18 12:51 PM

Originally Posted By: Legatoboy
The organs in the MX-88 were better than the previous ones Yamaha had in their boards up to and including the original CP boards..


So I own the Motif XF8, MOXF6, MOX6, and the MX49, and I haven't really noticed any difference in the overall organ sound in any of the keyboards that use the XF Samples (all of which I happen to own)

I haven't dug too deeply into the MX so it's possible that the presets are just edited better and have been tweaked to allow for the MX's more limited FX palette. However, I think the base samples are the all the same. (I could be wrong on this)

I've been wondering lately if adding a Ventilator would make using the Motif organs more fun, as one of the major limitations seems to be the Leslie. I think you would also need some sort of Vibrato/Chorus pedal (or you could just use the Yamaha onboard FX), and then you could just strip the Yamaha Voices down to the basic Elements (i.e., samples) and run them dry to the Vent and FX pedal(s).

Obviously wouldn't be a completely authentic Hammond experience but for basic pads and solos it might be adequate for cover bands, and one-offs.

Anyone tried this?
Posted By: Legatoboy

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/11/18 12:59 PM

Quote:
I haven't dug too deeply into the MX so it's possible that the presets are just edited better and have been tweaked to allow for the MX's more limited FX palette. However, I think the base samples are the all the same. (I could be wrong on this)


I believe you may be correct about the editing but the Leslie Sim has defiantly been enhanced and some of the presets just seem better than the older ones in my CP-50 and probably the CP-5...can't comment on the Motif XF8, MOXF6, MOX6's .... and in fact those are 1 generation newer I believe in the XF8 than the original CP's...
I just know the MX was better than the old ones I had in the CP-50 and some other Yammy boards of that vintage...they preformed better on the gig too. Though they really are not my cup of tea...I'll take the old CX-3 in the Kronos over the Yamaha, Roland synth organs and that over the KB3 in the SP6 which is the 2nd best I feel right now
Posted By: timwat

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/11/18 01:07 PM

Originally Posted By: benj2017
I've been wondering lately if adding a Ventilator would make using the Motif organs more fun, as one of the major limitations seems to be the Leslie. I think you would also need some sort of Vibrato/Chorus pedal (or you could just use the Yamaha onboard FX), and then you could just strip the Yamaha Voices down to the basic Elements (i.e., samples) and run them dry to the Vent and FX pedal(s).

Obviously wouldn't be a completely authentic Hammond experience but for basic pads and solos it might be adequate for cover bands, and one-offs.

Anyone tried this?


I've done something somewhat similar - because my unweighted keyboard is a Nord Wave, my "organ" solution is a static "organ-ish" patch through an EH Lester K.

I'm presuming the best Yamaha organ patch will be more authentic than my Wave patch, and forum consensus is that the Vent is a better sim pedal than the Lester K.

Still, I have to tell you - my bandmates are in love with this. Just last gig, my seasoned pro guitar player came up at set break and offered, "Man, Tim, your organ sound is awesome. Especially love whatever Leslie pedal you use - that thing sounds incredible to me."

The trick, of course, is to feed the pedal a completely dry, unmodulated, no-vibrato, no-chorus version and let the pedal sim do all its magic on its own.

Anyway, its the way I currently keep myself from buying a dedicated clonewheel.

Back on on-topic, this MODX looks pretty interesting to me.

So is it essentially Montage-class sounds, in a smaller, feature de-limited package? Sort of like a Yamaha Krome?

Does anyone know how much the 76 key version is purported to weigh?
Posted By: benj2017

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/11/18 01:09 PM

Gotcha,

If you go over to the Motifator forum and do a search, there was a whole big controversial discussion/rant/war about whether there was any difference in sound between the Motif XF and the MOXF.

I think the overall conclusion that there wasn't any changes in FX or samples, etc. However it sounds like you are comparing to the pre-XF sounds which were likely on the CP50.

I owned an MO8 prior to my current boards, and I can definitely 100% say the organ/leslie improved when the XF series came out. Since this is what the MX soundset draws from, I'd say we probably agree on that.

I remember demoing the MOXF organs against the Nord Electro at GC when it first came out and thinking they weren't that far off. However, I think the Yamaha starts to suffer when the Leslie is spinning fast and when you use voices that incorporate samples with the higher harmonic drawbars pulled out.
Posted By: benj2017

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/11/18 01:11 PM

Originally Posted By: timwat
Originally Posted By: benj2017
I've been wondering lately if adding a Ventilator would make using the Motif organs more fun, as one of the major limitations seems to be the Leslie. I think you would also need some sort of Vibrato/Chorus pedal (or you could just use the Yamaha onboard FX), and then you could just strip the Yamaha Voices down to the basic Elements (i.e., samples) and run them dry to the Vent and FX pedal(s).

Obviously wouldn't be a completely authentic Hammond experience but for basic pads and solos it might be adequate for cover bands, and one-offs.

Anyone tried this?


I've done something somewhat similar - because my unweighted keyboard is a Nord Wave, my "organ" solution is a static "organ-ish" patch through an EH Lester K.

I'm presuming the best Yamaha organ patch will be more authentic than my Wave patch, and forum consensus is that the Vent is a better sim pedal than the Lester K.

Still, I have to tell you - my bandmates are in love with this. Just last gig, my seasoned pro guitar player came up at set break and offered, "Man, Tim, your organ sound is awesome. Especially love whatever Leslie pedal you use - that thing sounds incredible to me."

The trick, of course, is to feed the pedal a completely dry, unmodulated, no-vibrato, no-chorus version and let the pedal sim do all its magic on its own.

Anyway, its the way I currently keep myself from buying a dedicated clonewheel.



Does the Lester K have a vibrato/chorus effect? I was just checking out the Vent and it doesn't seem to...
Posted By: timwat

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/11/18 01:18 PM

Originally Posted By: benj2017
Does the Lester K have a vibrato/chorus effect? I was just checking out the Vent and it doesn't seem to...


No sir. Just Fast / Slow / Brake, and overdrive.

Some speed and balance adjustments as well, but no adjustments to ramp acceleration time. The larger Lester G provides that, I believe, as well as a compressor if you wanted it.
Posted By: Legatoboy

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/11/18 01:24 PM

Quote:
However, I think the Yamaha starts to suffer when the Leslie is spinning fast and when you use voices that incorporate samples with the higher harmonic drawbars pulled out.
\

Without a doubt, you are correct...I never brought the mod-wheel fully forward on fast when I went from Choral to Tremolo ..and yes it gets worse with patches using the upper drawbars.. it gets cheesy very fast at the top end of the Leslie simm. and unfortunately is still somewhat horrible... good in a pinch though as long as you don't max out the Leslie modulation on the brighter Hammond organ patches. The Slow speed on the MX's Leslie simm rotation is also weak..wouldn't punch through the guitars w/strong rotation sense unless they were playing at a lower volume...
Posted By: Reezekeys

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/11/18 01:32 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
I'd say RV is not for consciously "using." It's for programming in sounds (or taking advantage of factory-programmed sounds) that better respond to your touch. For example, a real piano decay sounds different if you release the key very slowly than it does on a normal lift (assuming the sustain pedal is not depressed). Therefore, playing slowly and softly on a keyboard that can sense release velocity could provide a more authentic piano sound. So it's not that you intentionally lift more slowly when you want that sound; rather it's that, when you naturally play more softly and slowly, you can better get the sound you'd want when playing that way.

Any piano libraries out there that do this Ė use a different decay/release sample with a low release velocity? I haven't heard of one but of course it could exist.

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Or for string passages, you might want more abrupt decays when you're playing quickly/aggressively, and a slightly longer decay when moving among notes more slowly. (I am using "decay" in these examples to refer to what, in synth terms, would happen in the "release" phase, and that is what can be altered with release velocty.)

That's exactly what I tried using rv to do - the feature seems built for this. Maybe if I practiced a lot more I could get it together but I was never able to get the release lengths to sound the way I wanted, no matter how hard I tried.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/11/18 01:46 PM

Originally Posted By: timwat
Originally Posted By: benj2017
Does the Lester K have a vibrato/chorus effect? I was just checking out the Vent and it doesn't seem to...

No sir. Just Fast / Slow / Brake, and overdrive.

If your goal is authenticity, CV in a pedal would be problematic because the percussion would end up going through the CV as well, which you don't want. Of course, that happens with rompler-based organ-with-percussion sounds anyway. You might be able to address that by layering a no-percussion drawbar sound (which would go through the CV effect) with a percussion-only sound (which would not), and then send that combination out to your Lester/Vent/whatever.
Posted By: benj2017

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/11/18 02:24 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: timwat
Originally Posted By: benj2017
Does the Lester K have a vibrato/chorus effect? I was just checking out the Vent and it doesn't seem to...

No sir. Just Fast / Slow / Brake, and overdrive.

If your goal is authenticity, CV in a pedal would be problematic because the percussion would end up going through the CV as well, which you don't want. Of course, that happens with rompler-based organ-with-percussion sounds anyway. You might be able to address that by layering a no-percussion drawbar sound (which would go through the CV effect) with a percussion-only sound (which would not), and then send that combination out to your Lester/Vent/whatever.


Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Anyway, I'm happy with my Nord/Yamaha combo for now. I feel like the two boards balance each other out.
Posted By: benj2017

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/11/18 02:33 PM

So my two general complaints/concerns about this keyboard are the lack of bank/voice buttons, and the issue that was/is present in the Montage with not being able to select midi channels for the performance parts. (They are fixed at 1-16)

Without going into a bunch of detail, I like to play the MOXF sounds from my Nord Stage and this is much easier if I create my layers and splits on the Yamaha (in Song/pattern mode) with the Melas tools and then just assign the ones to be played by the Nord to the same midi channel. Then I just run the MOXF in Master mode and play any additional voices on the MOXF's keyboard. I also typically send program changes from the Yamaha to the Nord to select either my default midi controller patch or a custom one for a specific song.

That being said, it seems like a pretty sweet board and I'll probably buy one eventually... cry

Damn you Yamaha!
Posted By: mojkarma

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/11/18 03:18 PM

Originally Posted By: benj2017
So my two general complaints/concerns about this keyboard are the lack of bank/voice buttons


As a Montage owner I have to say, the existing buttons on the right of the screen aren't a big help for selecting sound either. To select sounds directly, they have to be put into the live set list. That list consist of 16 pages, each page contains 16 slots. Those buttons on the right can be used to select the 16 pages (you do this by pressing of of the buttons in the first four columns) and 16 slots within each page (the last four columns).
So, 256 performances can be accessed with just two button presses.
The big problem - at least for me - is that those button are not at all labeled as sound selection buttons. Selecting sounds is just their second or third function. You cannot write down where your needed performances are, like for example A-8 what would mean, page A, slot number 8. Instead, you have to visually memorize the relative position of the buttons (they are lit) and that is hardly possible.
It is really bad and I use the setlist maker app on my ipad to select my needed performances.
So, selecting those slots in the liveset mode is not really more difficult on the modx then it is on the montage.
The motif line was in that regard much better imho.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/11/18 03:53 PM

Originally Posted By: mojkarma
As a Montage owner I have to say, the existing buttons on the right of the screen aren't a big help for selecting sound either.

So they cannot be used as, say, MOXF buttons can?

My question had been, since the MODX does eliminate all those hard buttons that are on the Montage, whether they have added some alternate display screens you can call up to provide similar access to functions as those buttons did. But I haven't used a Montage, and I was assuming those buttons did the kinds of things they did on the MOXF, so maybe this question doesn't make sense.
Posted By: KorgyPorky

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/11/18 04:38 PM

Does this mean we will see a new montage X at Namm 2019?

I would love to see a VA, VL and waveform engine added to the next Montage..
And hopefully the return of something to play backins...
And offcourse the dreaded 9th slider.. and a bigger screen...
And a lighter 88 key version.. with the same keybed quallity as the orriginal(or better)
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/11/18 05:03 PM

Originally Posted By: KorgyPorky
Does this mean we will see a new montage X at Namm 2019?

Doubt it... the next generation Motifs didn't appear so quickly after the scaled down versions of the previous generation (i.e. time between MOXF and Montage, MOX and Motif XF, etc.).
Posted By: mojkarma

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/11/18 05:29 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: mojkarma
As a Montage owner I have to say, the existing buttons on the right of the screen aren't a big help for selecting sound either.

So they cannot be used as, say, MOXF buttons can?


The buttons on the motif/mo are much clearer labeled. You have bank, category buttons and those 16 buttons for direct access within a category/bank.

Here a picture of the buttons on the Montage when it is in the live set mode:



As you can see, there are 4 rows with 8 buttons in each. The first four columns are lit so that they can be distinguished from the last four columns which select one of the 16 sounds within one (of the sixteen) pages.

You can also see in the first four columns that they are not numbered or labeled consistently as buttons for sound selecting.
On this image you can see that actually a performance on page 16, first slot is selected. Therefor the lower right button is selected on those lit buttons and the upper left for the first slot.
But imagine you want to select a performance which is on page 10, slot 13! Since there are no numbers from 1 - 16 below the buttons, you have to count them quickly to get the number 10 on the page selecting row and number 13 on the slot selecting row. It is veeeeery unintuitive. The picture is small and blurry but you can see that the buttons are labeled from left to right to represent the number of parts, arps and other stuff.
As I said, from my personal experience this is a rather cumbersome way to select sounds and I do it with my ipad by sending MSB/LSB/PC messages to the Montage.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/11/18 05:53 PM

Originally Posted By: mojkarma
You can also see in the first four columns that they are not numbered or labeled consistently as buttons for sound selecting.
...
imagine you want to select a performance which is on page 10, slot 13! Since there are no numbers from 1 - 16 below the buttons, you have to count them quickly to get the number 10 on the page selecting row and number 13 on the slot selecting row.

From your description, it sounds like a problem that might be easily remedied with a little creative use of a Brother Label Maker.
Posted By: Aidan

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/11/18 06:26 PM

Originally Posted By: Reezekeys
And aftertouch.... To me it's strictly a marketing decision to make keyboardists who really need AT (like myself) spend the extra hundreds of dollars (or more) to buy the next tier of keyboards.


Of course it is. That's business.
Posted By: Bif_

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/11/18 07:49 PM

Originally Posted By: mojkarma
It is veeeeery unintuitive.


Classic Yamaha approach.

I love Yamaha and have two of their boards but they have engineer's design their interfaces. They need some normal people involved in the process.
Posted By: benj2017

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/11/18 10:37 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: mojkarma
You can also see in the first four columns that they are not numbered or labeled consistently as buttons for sound selecting.
...
imagine you want to select a performance which is on page 10, slot 13! Since there are no numbers from 1 - 16 below the buttons, you have to count them quickly to get the number 10 on the page selecting row and number 13 on the slot selecting row.

From your description, it sounds like a problem that might be easily remedied with a little creative use of a Brother Label Maker.


Ha ha, I am way ahead of you guys, this is how I set up my MOXF so I can get to patches quickly. I think if I did something similar on the Montage, it would be pretty easy to navigate but I could be wrong. I'm also interested in setting up my ipad to transmit bank/program changes, so ideally I could do either depending on the situation.


Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/12/18 12:05 AM

On XF and MOXF I just get the settlist before the gig and re-order from song 1 to X using Melas SW. I know some of you are more spontaneous jam guys - maybe that doesnít work for you. For me - i start at A1 and each song is the next button not lit. Easy peasy. A lot easier than trying to read a correlation chart and then find the right program. I donít read well without glasses, i donít need to read if it is pre-programmed.

I was shocked that Montage came out with live set list feature and they didnít allow user to drag and drop on the big fancy touch screen to re-order and change set patches. My understanding is you canít even insert a Performance between two existing performances - you have to move each lower Perf down one to make a space for it. Tsk tsk ... its 2018, Yamaha - shouldnít be a big ask to be able to re-order and change a set list like we do on our mp3, iPod, iPad, PC, ... every other conceivable electronic device we use. Not like this is some obscure seldom-needed task for a gigging musician. Iíd wager half of musicians need to do this before every gig. It was supposed to be a live performance rig, right?

Once again Melas rode to rescue to offer a PC/Mac library manager tool. Thatís easy enough, cost is absorbable - but ideally shouldnít need to plug into an external computer just to re-order a set list. The things Yammy makes us live with - engineers donít gig or it would be in the top 10 of functional feature needs.
Posted By: benj2017

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/12/18 12:11 AM

Yeah, the majority of my gigs either start with a setlist which is then promptly ignored, or the MD just calls random tunes we haven't played in three months.... hitt PianoBanana puff
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/12/18 12:22 AM

Read somewhere that Motif aftertouch wasnít very well implemented. Maybe weíre better off without.
Posted By: EscapeRocks

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/12/18 01:09 AM

I think the Montage is leaps and bound easier to program then my old MOXF.

I don't own a Montage, but I have spent time with one, helping program some shows for a friend. That touch screen...wow! Love it.

I think the MODX is very cool. I bought my MOXF back then, instead of Motif due to $$$$. I might be tempted to spring for a MODX 7.
Posted By: jefsco

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/12/18 01:33 AM


some pics of the modx6 as well as close ups....

https://fr.audiofanzine.com/synthe-numerique/yamaha/modx6/medias/photos/
Posted By: Tonysounds

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/12/18 01:45 AM

Originally Posted By: zephonic
Iím a little concerned about the position of the master volume and input volume knobs. Seems easy to grab the wrong one in the heat of the moment...



REALLY? With all the griping about the wheel placement, you expect us to believe that the 2 knobs at the very top of the machine are in danger of accidental manipulation??? I dunno
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/12/18 09:41 AM

Originally Posted By: EscapeRocks
I think the Montage is leaps and bound easier to program then my old MOXF.

I don't own a Montage, but I have spent time with one, helping program some shows for a friend. That touch screen...wow! Love it.

I think the MODX is very cool. I bought my MOXF back then, instead of Motif due to $$$$. I might be tempted to spring for a MODX 7.

I have both XF7 and MOXF6. Never programmed Montage but MOXF is harder than even XF due to tiny screen = increased menu diving and non-intuitive presentation of data. If I hadnít already learned a lot of the XF, the MOXF would have been very daunting for me.

This is a big deal for Yamaha imo. Pulls them squarely back to the front of pack for mid-range professional boards - unless you need a clone, of course smile.
Posted By: Synthoid

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/12/18 10:05 AM

Originally Posted By: MotiDave
This is a big deal for Yamaha imo. Pulls them squarely back to the front of pack for mid-range professional boards - unless you need a clone, of course.


And it's great to see them include a touchscreen on a non-flagship keyboard. thu
Posted By: Mighty Motif Max

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/12/18 10:58 AM

Originally Posted By: Fleer
Read somewhere that Motif aftertouch wasnít very well implemented. Maybe weíre better off without.


I find the aftertouch on my XF8 to be quite functional. No issues for me.
Posted By: zephonic

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/12/18 11:55 AM

Originally Posted By: Synthoid
Originally Posted By: MotiDave
This is a big deal for Yamaha imo. Pulls them squarely back to the front of pack for mid-range professional boards - unless you need a clone, of course.


And it's great to see them include a touchscreen on a non-flagship keyboard. thu



Yes, it is. But for perspective, the Korg Krome has had a touch display since what, 2012?
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/12/18 12:18 PM

Originally Posted By: Fleer
Read somewhere that Motif aftertouch wasnít very well implemented. Maybe weíre better off without.
Nah. You probably just heard that from some guy on the internet. ;-)

The Jupiter 80 is an example of poorly implemented aftertouch... bu not because of any problem with the mechanism, it's just that the software was very limited in what you could assign the aftertouch to. Yamaha is at least generally pretty good about letting you assign pretty much anything to anything. Regardless, it's also useful when triggering external sounds, regardless of any internal implementation.

Originally Posted By: zephonic
Originally Posted By: Synthoid
it's great to see them include a touchscreen on a non-flagship keyboard. thu

Yes, it is. But for perspective, the Korg Krome has had a touch display since what, 2012?

Korg M50... 2008.
Posted By: Synthoid

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/12/18 12:33 PM

Right.... however, I was referring to the fact it's amazing for Yamaha to include a touchscreen on their non-flagship keyboards.
Posted By: GregC

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/12/18 12:50 PM

yes, it was a bold and innovative decision by Y to add the touchscreen. It might have added $20 to the build cost. wink
Posted By: Devnor

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/12/18 01:33 PM

Internally, Jupiter 80 AT was a bridge to nowhere.

Does anyone know if MODX has envelope follower and audio beat sync features?
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/12/18 01:37 PM

Originally Posted By: Mighty Motif Max
Originally Posted By: Fleer
Read somewhere that Motif aftertouch wasnít very well implemented. Maybe weíre better off without.


I find the aftertouch on my XF8 to be quite functional. No issues for me.


on my XF7, I only used AT on exactly one song. I found it so hypersensitive I had to be extremely careful to not trigger it prematurely. so careful it required an almost distracting degree of focus to play the note super soft/light until i wanted to trigger the AT effect.

its a different semi-weighted keybed, no reason to assume XF8 weighted is at all the same.
Posted By: Mighty Motif Max

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/12/18 01:43 PM

Originally Posted By: MotiDave
Originally Posted By: Mighty Motif Max
Originally Posted By: Fleer
Read somewhere that Motif aftertouch wasnít very well implemented. Maybe weíre better off without.


I find the aftertouch on my XF8 to be quite functional. No issues for me.


on my XF7, I only used AT on exactly one song. I found it so hypersensitive I had to be extremely careful to not trigger it prematurely. so careful it required an almost distracting degree of focus to play the note super soft/light until i wanted to trigger the AT effect.

its a different semi-weighted keybed, no reason to assume XF8 weighted is at all the same.


True, depends on which keybed we're talking about. I know one thing, the aftertouch on my YS200 was virtually impossible to activate.
Posted By: echo66

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/12/18 03:42 PM

Looks like the 88 version will be $1,899 and weigh 45.2 lbs.

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:RPjSL-VnnGgJ:https://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-MODX8-88-Key-Weighted-Synthesizer/dp/B07GKB1TXG+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca&client=firefox-b
Posted By: stoken6

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/12/18 04:04 PM

45.2? That's a lot of lbs, given that the 88-note MOXF8/MX88 were 33-ish if I remember?

Cheers, Mike.
Posted By: jefsco

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/12/18 04:27 PM


that amazon page appears to be gone now....
Posted By: Mighty Motif Max

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/12/18 04:40 PM

Originally Posted By: stoken6
45.2? That's a lot of lbs, given that the 88-note MOXF8/MX88 were 33-ish if I remember?

Cheers, Mike.


Hopefully either that's a typo or the full shipping weight.
Posted By: stoken6

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/12/18 05:11 PM

Different, better-quality-but-heavier action, perhaps? Also interesting to see what they'll use in the MOXF7. If it's the Piaggero action, that's no bad thing. Piaggero is graded sprung action, would you believe - and the bass (heavy) end of that is very nice. At the treble end it gets a bit light, but it's much nicer than the Krome/Kross action, for example.

(The MODX isn't for me - I don't have a dog in this race, but I'm going to enter a P121 in the "lightweight affordable 7x-note better-than-TP100 hammer-action" steeplechase)

Cheers, Mike.
Posted By: EscapeRocks

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/12/18 06:15 PM

Never trust the weight or dimension on any product on Amazon.

years ago they had my Steinberg UR22 i/o listed as weighing 10lbs.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/12/18 07:01 PM

Originally Posted By: Mighty Motif Max
Originally Posted By: stoken6
45.2? That's a lot of lbs, given that the 88-note MOXF8/MX88 were 33-ish if I remember?

Hopefully either that's a typo or the full shipping weight.

Yes, something is definitely off as it lists both the item weight AND the shipping weight as 45.2 (and as David says, Amazon weights are not to be trusted anyway).
Posted By: SeaGtGruff

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/12/18 07:15 PM

Originally Posted By: Mighty Motif Max
Originally Posted By: Fleer
Read somewhere that Motif aftertouch wasnít very well implemented. Maybe weíre better off without.


I find the aftertouch on my XF8 to be quite functional. No issues for me.


I've never played a Motif, but the only gripes I've ever heard about the aftertouch is that it's channel and not polyphonic.
Posted By: drawback

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/12/18 07:42 PM

Many will disagree, but when I tried out a Montage 6 I thought it was the best action, of its kind, that I'd ever laid my hands on. Hoping this one is in that ballpark.
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/12/18 08:03 PM

Originally Posted By: drawback
Many will disagree, but when I tried out a Montage 6 I thought it was the best action, of its kind, that I'd ever laid my hands on. Hoping this one is in that ballpark.


I'd bet a very large donut that MODX action is much closer to MOXF than it is to Montage (both for 88 weighted and non-88 "semi"). TBD if it is the exact same as MOXF (which didn't have a 76)
Posted By: ElmerJFudd

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/12/18 09:26 PM

The Montage AWM2 + FM and the audio hardware onboard sounds excellent. I am not sure how much the DAC theyíve chosen is playing a part. But if you A/B with budget boards like Roland FA and MOXF or Krome, thereís no comparison. Iíd be very curious to see how much like the Montage the MODX sounds.
Posted By: zephonic

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/12/18 09:57 PM

True. Last year I A/B'd VI's through the DAC's of the Jupiter 50 and MX88. There was a clear difference in sound quality; the JP-50 sounded present and wide, the MX88 muffled and narrow in comparison.
Posted By: benj2017

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/12/18 11:27 PM

Not sure I want to open this can of worms, but wasn't it settled on the Motifator site that the MOXF and Motif XF use the same DAC?

I wouldn't doubt that the MX has lower quality hardware, but I guess the question is what changed from the Motif to the Montage in terms of the DAC and will that carry over to the MODX?

I like my MX49, but there is a BIG difference in the overall sound quality between it and my MOXF, due to the limit on insert effects and lack of FX, etc. (I can't attest to how much of this from the DAC)

I haven't really discerned any difference in sound quality between my MOXF and Motif. (ducks...) bang
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/13/18 12:49 AM

Originally Posted By: benj2017
Not sure I want to open this can of worms, but wasn't it settled on the Motifator site that the MOXF and Motif XF use the same DAC?

I wouldn't doubt that the MX has lower quality hardware, but I guess the question is what changed from the Motif to the Montage in terms of the DAC and will that carry over to the MODX?

I like my MX49, but there is a BIG difference in the overall sound quality between it and my MOXF, due to the limit on insert effects and lack of FX, etc. (I can't attest to how much of this from the DAC)

I haven't really discerned any difference in sound quality between my MOXF and Motif. (ducks...) bang

I donít recall that settlement - was it settled by someone who actually knows something? I thought the opposite was settled though I donít believe the delta is very significant. Itís not like Carnegie hall vs an iPhone in a tin can. I have both - in a band mix iím not sure i can hear the difference with the things i do. Perhaps a naked AP would be noticeable, not really sure.
Posted By: MIDI2XS

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/13/18 12:58 AM

Originally Posted By: benj2017
Not sure I want to open this can of worms, but wasn't it settled on the Motifator site that the MOXF and Motif XF use the same DAC? [...]

No, they use different DACs. The Motif XF (and the XS) use the Asahi Kasei AK4393 DAC. The MOXF uses the Wolfson WM8740. Both are 24-bit 192kHz devices. The WM8740 might be less expensive than the AK4393, but it performs well and can be found in some higher-end audio gear.


Originally Posted By: benj2017
[...] I haven't really discerned any difference in sound quality between my MOXF and Motif. (ducks...)

There's little difference in sound quality between the XF and MOXF. Most listeners on Motifator were unable to discern a difference between the same material recorded on an XF versus a MOXF.
Posted By: o0Ampy0o

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/13/18 05:09 AM

DACs do not produce noticeable differences in audiophile gear after a relatively low threshold is reached. It is an area where people pay more simply because they believe more must mean better. Maybe specs are better but it cannot be heard with your ears, only your imagination.
Posted By: Aidan

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/13/18 05:48 AM

Especially on a Saturday night gig with a crowd of drunks shouting over a Peavey PA.
Posted By: ElmerJFudd

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/13/18 07:46 AM

Of course. Itís the instrument soloíd at your own pleasure. And Iím not sure itís the DAC to begin with. Could be a combination of things.
Posted By: zephonic

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/13/18 07:58 AM

Originally Posted By: o0Ampy0o
DACs do not produce noticeable differences in audiophile gear after a relatively low threshold is reached. It is an area where people pay more simply because they believe more must mean better. Maybe specs are better but it cannot be heard with your ears, only your imagination.


The converter chips themselves aren't supposed to have any sonic footprint whatsoever, but the analog part of the design can certainly influence the sound quality.

There are tons of threads on gearslutz about this, some of it pretty enlightening.
Posted By: pjd

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/13/18 10:01 AM

Even though the DACs in the Motif XF and MOXF products are capable of 192kHz, they are both clocked at 44.1kHz samples/sec/channel. The Montage DAC is clocked at 48kHz.

Also, the Montage engineers paid careful attention to analog board layout and power, AKA "Pure Analog Circuit." The post-DAC circuitry is quite different WRT Motif/MOX. We won't be getting any PAC with the lower cost MODX.

Comparisons of Motif XF vs. MOXF vs. Montage are reasonable. When comparisons are made across vendors, I back off. There are too many variables -- differences in tone generation, waveforms (AKA "samples"), voice programming, etc., etc. Follow the gourd! Follow the shoe!

All the best -- pj

Music technology blog: http://sandsoftwaresound.net/
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/13/18 10:10 AM

Thereís more changes from XF to Montage than just DACs. Hard to parse out which bit added which sonic improvement. If MODX comes out in the family range of Montage, that will be awesome enough.

I canít hear a difference between MOXF and XF - I instead hear a ldifference based on the sound system that is amplifying me - which varies at every gig. I suspect in general that FOH differences are 10x the XF/MOXF delta or more.
Posted By: zephonic

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/13/18 01:37 PM

https://www.yamahasynth.com/yamaha-synth-rss/something-new


Special Yamaha Synthesizer LIVESTREAM Event: Friday, September 14, 1PM/1300 Eastern Daylight Time

Tune in for a very special announcement during an event featuring artist performances and interviews!

Join the Yamaha Synthesizer team for a very special Facebook Live event from Yamaha Artist Services in New York City.

Hosted by UK/EU Product Demonstrator Dom Sigalas and US Synthesizer Product Specialist Blake Angelos, the event will feature a special product announcement, live performances and interviews with:

Electronic artist and sound designer: Richard Devine

Keyboardist and Yamaha Artist: Nick Semrad

Pianist/keyboardist and Yamaha Artist: Domi Degalle

The event takes place on Friday, September 14 at 1PM/1300 Eastern Standard Time and will be streamed live on the YamahaSynths Facebook page.

This will be a MEMORABLE event that you will not want to miss! Hope to see you there!

https://www.facebook.com/yamahasynths/
Posted By: pjd

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/13/18 01:58 PM

Originally Posted By: MotiDave
Thereís more changes from XF to Montage than just DACs. Hard to parse out which bit added which sonic improvement. If MODX comes out in the family range of Montage, that will be awesome enough.


Absolutely true. The Motif XF is based on the older SWP51L tone generator while the Montage uses two SWP70 TGs. The host processor moved to ARM from MIPS, etc.

That's why I think it's fair to compare one system against another system. And it's why I avoid any "It's the DAC" arguments. :-)

I'm looking forward to the MODX, BTW. Can't wait to try one!

All the best -- pj
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/13/18 02:08 PM

Originally Posted By: pjd
Originally Posted By: MotiDave
Thereís more changes from XF to Montage than just DACs. Hard to parse out which bit added which sonic improvement. If MODX comes out in the family range of Montage, that will be awesome enough.


Absolutely true. The Motif XF is based on the older SWP51L tone generator while the Montage uses two SWP70 TGs. The host processor moved to ARM from MIPS, etc.

That's why I think it's fair to compare one system against another system. And it's why I avoid any "It's the DAC" arguments. :-)

I'm looking forward to the MODX, BTW. Can't wait to try one!

All the best -- pj
me too!
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/13/18 03:17 PM

Sweetwater is already showing the MOXF6 as discontinued. So actual availability of the MODX is probably imminent.
Posted By: zephonic

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/13/18 03:37 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Sweetwater is already showing the MOXF6 as discontinued. So actual availability of the MODX is probably imminent.


Most likely pre-order tomorrow, as soon as the FB event has been concluded. The MOXF8 is still available though.

I'm slightly concerned they'll release the MODX6/7 first, alongside the MOXF8, as there haven't been any leaked photos of the 88-key version.

I want to buy the MODX8 today, and would hate if they delayed it because the MOXF8 is still selling well.
Posted By: engineerjoel

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/13/18 04:00 PM

Hey Zephonic, You looking for this....

Posted By: zephonic

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/13/18 04:11 PM

YEAH!

I'm buying that. An updated alternative to the S90; hope it doesn't have the GHS action, but even if it does, I'm getting one.
Posted By: Dockeys

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/13/18 05:04 PM

The modx8 is showing up on a few places now. Looks like it might be a little lighter than the Moxf8 but possibly the same GHS hammer action??

https://www.espaceclaviers.com/yamaha-modx8-workstations_p8580,oasc,c57,oasc,pg1.htm

Would like to take a punt on this but Iíve had the mox8 and moxf8 and sold them on as I just couldnít gel with that action. If it had the Montage 8/XF8/ES8 action Iíd buy it in a heartbeat. Looks like a big step forward for the MOX series though.
Posted By: Legatoboy

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/13/18 05:57 PM

I didn't care for the way the GHS action was implemented in the MX-88....though they touted the action for the 88 upgrade of the MX line which is fair. The GHS felt and responded better it seemed to me in other Yammy boards other than the MX-88!

To shallow a throw for my choperoos!
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/13/18 06:58 PM

I found a MODX7 spec cite 1144 mm = 45". listed weight is 7.4 kg = 16.3 lbs. Not sure i'll be able to get it into an ATA molded case that hits 50". (don't want a heavy flight case).

are there companies that can custom construct light weight ATA cases tightly sized to a keyboard (with wheels :))?

2.5" oer side should be enough room if they are shooting for the perfect spec for this board.
Posted By: Mighty Motif Max

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/13/18 07:04 PM

Originally Posted By: Dockeys
The modx8 is showing up on a few places now. Looks like it might be a little lighter than the Moxf8 but possibly the same GHS hammer action??

https://www.espaceclaviers.com/yamaha-modx8-workstations_p8580,oasc,c57,oasc,pg1.htm

Would like to take a punt on this but Iíve had the mox8 and moxf8 and sold them on as I just couldnít gel with that action.
If it had the Montage 8/XF8/ES8 action Iíd buy it in a heartbeat. Looks like a big step forward for the MOX series though.



If Google Translate is correct and that site's information is accurate, then yes, the MODX8 uses the GHS action.

The other two models are showing up there too. Both are listed simply as having a "semi-weighted keyboard".
Posted By: zephonic

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/14/18 03:14 AM

Theyíre up on Sweetwater now:

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/search.php?s=modx

$1299, $1499, and $1899

Pre-order now, deliveries start om 9/27.
Posted By: ElmerJFudd

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/14/18 07:54 AM

Hmmm. Necessary to go GHS at $1899?
Could have stuck the CP4s action in it which sells for $1999.
Posted By: Dockeys

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/14/18 07:59 AM

Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Hmmm. Necessary to go GHS at $1899?
Could have stuck the CP4s action in it which sells for $1999.


Indeed, but would it have increased the overall weight by much?
Posted By: Bill W

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/14/18 08:29 AM

Originally Posted By: zephonic
Theyíre up on Sweetwater now:

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/search.php?s=modx

$1299, $1499, and $1899

Pre-order now, deliveries start om 9/27.


And the MODX owner's manual is up:

https://usa.yamaha.com/support/manuals/index.html?l=en&c=music_production&k=modx
Posted By: ElmerJFudd

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/14/18 08:32 AM

Originally Posted By: Dockeys
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Hmmm. Necessary to go GHS at $1899?
Could have stuck the CP4s action in it which sells for $1999.


Indeed, but would it have increased the overall weight by much?


CP4 is one of the lightest quality action slabs you can get.
Posted By: Dockeys

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/14/18 08:58 AM

Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Originally Posted By: Dockeys
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Hmmm. Necessary to go GHS at $1899?
Could have stuck the CP4s action in it which sells for $1999.


Indeed, but would it have increased the overall weight by much?


CP4 is one of the lightest quality action slabs you can get.


Yup not only one of the lightest but one of the most loved. Myself included. But the cp4 is 17 plus kilos while the moxf8 is 13-14 kilos. Iím assuming they might be looking at getting th modx8 in at a similar ďlightĒ weight. Seeing as the cp4 and probably the modx8 are largely plastic bodies I wonder if the cp4 keybed is much heavier as it has wood rather than plastic of th GHS? An MODX8 with cp4 keybed would be a very attractive proposition.
Posted By: Legatoboy

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/14/18 10:02 AM

I'm almost interested... this is a very nice instrument.
Just hope the GHS's implementation is not similar to the MX-88.

I really did not connect with that action very well.
Posted By: Sam Mullins

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/14/18 10:43 AM

Anyone know if it has the same silly MIDI implementation as the Montage?
Posted By: KorgyPorky

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/14/18 10:47 AM

Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Hmmm. Necessary to go GHS at $1899?
Could have stuck the CP4s action in it which sells for $1999.


That does not sound like yamaha..
If you want good action, you need to buy the top model at yamaha..

I hope i am wrong, but canít imagine they will have anything else then the GHS action...

At best a GH3 action, but i donít think they will add the lovely NWX that is in the P515 and many other high end pianoís.. if it has NWX, at that price buying would be a no brainer..
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/14/18 11:23 AM

Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Hmmm. Necessary to go GHS at $1899?
Could have stuck the CP4s action in it which sells for $1999.

Either you pay for a better action, or you pay for more capable electronics. If a CP4 is $1999, why would you expect a board with the same action and a whole lot more everything else (display, memory, controls, processing power, whatever) to sell for less? (Or as I've said in the past, there are lots of things you can get in a $1000 board, but if you put them all in the same board, you don't have a $1000 board anymore.)
Posted By: zephonic

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/14/18 11:27 AM

I never expected the CP4 action, but I do feel they could have thrown the GH in there for the money (and weight).

Whatís strange is that the original MO8 had a better action than its successors, so itís not like they couldnít do it at this price point.


But Iím happy itís finally here, nonetheless!

Posted By: GovernorSilver

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/14/18 11:30 AM

Originally Posted By: zephonic
Theyíre up on Sweetwater now:

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/search.php?s=modx

$1299, $1499, and $1899

Pre-order now, deliveries start om 9/27.


This might be a better link - the other one points to some kind of guitar

https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/yamaha-modx-launch/
Posted By: benj2017

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/14/18 12:11 PM

Originally Posted By: GovernorSilver
Originally Posted By: zephonic
Theyíre up on Sweetwater now:

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/search.php?s=modx

$1299, $1499, and $1899

Pre-order now, deliveries start om 9/27.


This might be a better link - the other one points to some kind of guitar

https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/yamaha-modx-launch/


That one is down now as well...

Originally Posted By: Sam Mullins
Anyone know if it has the same silly MIDI implementation as the Montage?


I was wondering this as well, I emailed someone in the Yamaha keyboard group to ask...
Posted By: GovernorSilver

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/14/18 12:26 PM

Apparently, the official announcement from Yamaha is scheduled for noon EST. That is why Sweetwater took down that page. The specs posted there might not be totally accurate, though I'm sure they're a step closer to reality than typical GearSlutz stuff.
Posted By: Sam Mullins

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/14/18 01:47 PM

Originally Posted By: benj2017


Originally Posted By: Sam Mullins
Anyone know if it has the same silly MIDI implementation as the Montage?


I was wondering this as well, I emailed someone in the Yamaha keyboard group to ask...


Took a brief look at the manual and it seems it has the same limitations:

"When the MIDI I/O mode is set to ďmulti,Ē each MIDI Receive Channel number of the MODX corresponds to an individual Part number, such as Channel 1 for Part 1, Channel 2 for Part 2, and so on. When the MIDI I/O is set to ďsingle,Ē a single channel is used for receiving all Parts."

A little ambiguous, but given the known Montage implementation, I read that as no aribitrary setting of MIDI channel numbers for parts.
Posted By: Synthoid

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/14/18 02:16 PM









Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/14/18 02:22 PM

live streaming is currently on their FB page ... I missed the start. the artist they selected to demo loves it - thats good because if she said it sucks, that would be bad smile
Posted By: zephonic

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/14/18 02:23 PM

Domi is beast! She really tore it up. I hadn't heard of her before. The future of music is in good hands.

edit:
Actually, I did see a vid of her sightreading Corey Henry's Lingus solo a while back. No idea it was the same girl.
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/14/18 02:26 PM

I need to fit the 7 into an ATA case that is 50". If i find this case, i'll place my order. I see cases where ext dimension is only 4" more than internal - but not that are exact in 44" or 45" internal. yet.

I love the SKB case that I've taken my MOXF6 around the country in: SKB 1SKB-4214W
Posted By: Mighty Motif Max

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/14/18 02:27 PM

Official line page on Yamaha's website; https://usa.yamaha.com/products/music_production/synthesizers/modx/index.html


I agree, Domi plays great. Maybe I read into her comment too much, but regarding her opinion of the GHS, it sounded to me like she said that she had to practice to get used to the feel of it, it was a bit of a challenge, but now she likes it. It looked like Mr. Angelos was caught of guard for a second. Correct?
Posted By: Legatoboy

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/14/18 02:28 PM

She was excellent...but a few more whole and half notes would have been nice...I'm getting to old for pyrotechnics, she is 19 after all or am I just jealous. Just kidding but the action, I notice they had the same 'sell' with the MX-88 right out of the gate...pushing the 88 GHS action. I hope it's implemented well that's all . . not to be to much of a downer!
Posted By: zephonic

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/14/18 02:28 PM

Originally Posted By: Mighty Motif Max

I agree, Domi plays great. Maybe I read into her comment too much, but regarding her opinion of the GHS, it sounded to me like she said that she had to practice to get used to the feel of it, it was a bit of a challenge, but now she likes it. It looked like Mr. Angelos was caught of guard for a second. Correct?


Yeah, she was a little too honest there smile
Posted By: Legatoboy

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/14/18 02:29 PM

Hehe, yeah! So did I have to practice (w/ my sold MX-88)...there isn't a deep throw on the MX-88 keys and the envelopes even on piano sounds, well there was this sense of endless 'decay' in it w/o depressing the sustain pedal...I couldn't seem to program it out even with the convenient ADSR knobs or touch settings or anything....that coupled with the action was maddening on AP sounds! I'm sure the MODX sound engine won't exhibit the 'decay' issue ...pretty sure it won't! I play a Montage often at the local GC...does not have that particular problem of course on the flagship.

I am digging my SP-6 oh so much more than the MX-88.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/14/18 02:50 PM

Originally Posted By: Reezekeys
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
I'd say RV is not for consciously "using." It's for programming in sounds (or taking advantage of factory-programmed sounds) that better respond to your touch. For example, a real piano decay sounds different if you release the key very slowly than it does on a normal lift (assuming the sustain pedal is not depressed). Therefore, playing slowly and softly on a keyboard that can sense release velocity could provide a more authentic piano sound. So it's not that you intentionally lift more slowly when you want that sound; rather it's that, when you naturally play more softly and slowly, you can better get the sound you'd want when playing that way.

Any piano libraries out there that do this Ė use a different decay/release sample with a low release velocity? I haven't heard of one but of course it could exist.

It doesn't have to be a different sample, it could also be a different envelope on an existing sample. But anyway, I know my Korg SV1 uses release velocity to affect the mechanical noise on release on both the acoustic and electric pianos. For a different approach, Pianoteq doesn't use samples at all, but it does model different release behaviors.

Originally Posted By: Reezekeys
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Or for string passages, you might want more abrupt decays when you're playing quickly/aggressively, and a slightly longer decay when moving among notes more slowly. (I am using "decay" in these examples to refer to what, in synth terms, would happen in the "release" phase, and that is what can be altered with release velocty.)

That's exactly what I tried using rv to do - the feature seems built for this. Maybe if I practiced a lot more I could get it together but I was never able to get the release lengths to sound the way I wanted, no matter how hard I tried.

For what I'm talking about, it's not about practice, it's programming. It's not about consciously trying to lift more gently when you want a less abrupt release; it's about programming in a less abrupt release that will occur when you naturally lift more gently.

Originally Posted By: benj2017
So my two general complaints/concerns about this keyboard are the lack of bank/voice buttons

I used the bank/voice buttons a lot to select different RH sounds on the fly while playing LH bass. (I'd play while in Edit mode for this to work.) I thought lack of comparable functionality might be a dealbreaker for me on the MODX, but now with the Seamless Sound Switching, I think I could do the same thing a different way.

Originally Posted By: benj2017
and the issue that was/is present in the Montage with not being able to select midi channels for the performance parts. (They are fixed at 1-16)

Are you sure? See... http://montageforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=19

Originally Posted By: zephonic
I want to buy the MODX8 today, and would hate if they delayed it because the MOXF8 is still selling well.
Luckily for you, as you've seen, they're all coming out together. I think Sweetwater probably intended to have enough MOXF6 and MOXF8 to cover them until the MODX announcement, and they just ran out of the 6 more quickly than expected.

Something else I like about the 7 and 8 is that they consolidated most of the free space on the right side (though they could have done a little better). Space for a tablet or sound module (Gemini, Boutique)...
Posted By: GregC

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/14/18 02:56 PM

Originally Posted By: zephonic
Theyíre up on Sweetwater now:

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/search.php?s=modx

$1299, $1499, and $1899

Pre-order now, deliveries start om 9/27.


I am impressed by the board(s). The pricing is very sharp.

IMO, I would pass on a FA or a Krome given the pricing and strong MODx features.

In fact, I am not even sure either board really competes with the MODx
Posted By: zephonic

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/14/18 03:05 PM

The Krome is six years old by now, and has carried on essentially unchanged. I bet an update or replacement is imminent.

The FA series is from 2014, but the sounds are essentially carryovers from the Fantom, which itself had plenty of carryover from the 1990's JV/XP series.

The Montage is from 2016, and it wasn't your typical refried Motif fare. So yeah, the MODX is really ahead of the competition here.


edit:
Crazy, right now my preferred rig would be a Montage 7 on top of a MODX8. But that's just too much Yamaha in one rig!
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/14/18 03:08 PM

Originally Posted By: GregC
IMO, I would pass on a FA or a Krome given the pricing and strong MODx features.

In fact, I am not even sure either board really competes with the MODx

I'd go with the MODx too, but I can see where someone could still choose the FA... sequencer, trigger pads, clonewheel engine, VA synth engine, assignable out
Posted By: GregC

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/14/18 03:20 PM

Originally Posted By: zephonic
The Krome is six years old by now, and has carried on essentially unchanged. I bet an update or replacement is imminent.

The FA series is from 2014, but the sounds are essentially carryovers from the Fantom, which itself had plenty of carryover from the 1990's JV/XP series.

The Montage is from 2016, and it wasn't your typical refried Motif fare. So yeah, the MODX is really ahead of the competition here.


Depending on requirements, I think the FA had enough to be preferable vs Fantom. I know this is debatable , subjective, etc.

The 4 models of the Kronos family (LS, Kross, Krome) are showing their age IMO.

In that niche, Korg should be prepared to completely re-vamp all 4 boards. I also
thought a price reduction on Kronos is long over due.

I think Yamaha has finally put pressure on this niche. Good for them. I think strong choices like the MODx is just what was needed- good, solid convincing competition.
Posted By: GovernorSilver

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/14/18 03:25 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: GregC
IMO, I would pass on a FA or a Krome given the pricing and strong MODx features.

In fact, I am not even sure either board really competes with the MODx

I'd go with the MODx too, but I can see where someone could still choose the FA... sequencer, trigger pads, clonewheel engine, VA synth engine, assignable out


I'm with you here. I do know several who would choose the FA series over the MODx for the sequencer and trigger pads - those kind of people are not going to care which keyboard has the most state of the art synthesis technology.
Posted By: N4dr0j

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/14/18 03:34 PM

Our very own konaboy (Woody) has been given one to demo for his channel. Well done Woody! As expected it sounds lovely. That second patch he demoed gave me chills.

Posted By: Mighty Motif Max

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/14/18 03:40 PM

And Kraft Music has their demo out now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zAUCkNmFzo

Watch it here?

Posted By: Mighty Motif Max

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/14/18 03:42 PM

And Muzykuj has a video comparing it with the Montage. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ob4o2xEH6Y



A/D converters sound fine.
Posted By: Rusty Mike

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/14/18 03:53 PM

Was just listening to some of the YouTube demo videos. Sounds like a great keyboard for a Yanni cover band.
Posted By: GregC

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/14/18 04:03 PM

Originally Posted By: GovernorSilver
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: GregC
IMO, I would pass on a FA or a Krome given the pricing and strong MODx features.

In fact, I am not even sure either board really competes with the MODx

I'd go with the MODx too, but I can see where someone could still choose the FA... sequencer, trigger pads, clonewheel engine, VA synth engine, assignable out


I'm with you here. I do know several who would choose the FA series over the MODx for the sequencer and trigger pads - those kind of people are not going to care which keyboard has the most state of the art synthesis technology.



there are a few useful features, I agree. And the FA is a useful, neat solution.
I have the FA07.. I like it.

with some effort, I think the features can be appended to the MODx.

I am more looking ahead with interesting sound possibilities at this point.
Posted By: MAJUSCULE

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/14/18 04:04 PM

Just watched a FB video Fortner posted of DOMi shredding. Rhodes sounds good. She makes anything sound good, but it sounded good.
Posted By: Mighty Motif Max

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/14/18 04:04 PM

Zephonic's link is working again.
Posted By: Mighty Motif Max

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/14/18 04:09 PM

Sweetwater lists the MODX6 & 7 as having a "LC" synth-weighted keybed.
Posted By: Bill W

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/14/18 04:13 PM

Originally Posted By: Mighty Motif Max
Sweetwater lists the MODX6 & 7 as having a "LC" synth-weighted keybed.


I wonder if that stands for Low Cwality?
Posted By: Dave Ferris

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/14/18 04:18 PM

Originally Posted By: Rusty Mike
Was just listening to some of the YouTube demo videos. Sounds like a great keyboard for a Yanni cover band.


My thoughts too after listening to most of them.

Couldn't find the live stream with Domi playing, anyone have a link ?

What does the 88 weigh ? No specs at Sweetwater yet.
Posted By: Mighty Motif Max

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/14/18 04:19 PM

I don't know if that is the same keybed as the MOXF6. Hoping it's not. I went with a Krome over a MOXF6 because the MOXF6 keys seemed too "loose" and the black keys seemed higher than normal. Hoping the "LC" action is different.
Posted By: zephonic

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/14/18 04:20 PM

Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris


What does the 88 weigh ? No specs at Sweetwater yet.


13.8 Kg or 30 lbs 7 oz

https://usa.yamaha.com/products/music_production/synthesizers/modx/specs.html#product-tabs


Originally Posted By: Mighty Motif Max
I went with a Krome over a MOXF6 because the MOXF6 keys seemed too "loose" and the black keys seemed higher than normal.


Wow, that's pretty serious, considering my Krome 73 has the worst action I have ever played.
Posted By: fjzingo

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/14/18 04:38 PM

So how is midi implemented, does each part have a fixed midichannel?
Posted By: Mighty Motif Max

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/14/18 04:44 PM

Originally Posted By: zephonic
Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris


What does the 88 weigh ? No specs at Sweetwater yet.


13.8 Kg or 30 lbs 7 oz

https://usa.yamaha.com/products/music_production/synthesizers/modx/specs.html#product-tabs


Originally Posted By: Mighty Motif Max
I went with a Krome over a MOXF6 because the MOXF6 keys seemed too "loose" and the black keys seemed higher than normal.


Wow, that's pretty serious, considering my Krome 73 has the worst action I have ever played.


I know many people really dislike it. I don't mind it. I'm apparently in the +/- 20% of players who don't have an issue with it. Perhaps the action on the MOXF6 that I tried was beaten up or something. I tried both with organ-style glisses, and the MOXF6 keys seemed like they would break right off. They felt sort of flimsy, almost fragile. Too much sideways play. The Krome was not as bad to my touch. It felt a little sturdier, if you would believe it. I played a Krome 61 at a different store years ago, and really did not like the keys. idk Both were used. I suppose it helps that I don't play towards the back of the keybed (the Krome is always a second-tier board when I use it live too).
Posted By: Mighty Motif Max

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/14/18 04:47 PM

Originally Posted By: fjzingo
So how is midi implemented, does each part have a fixed midichannel?


I want to know this too. +1
Posted By: mojkarma

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/14/18 05:15 PM

Regarding the midi channel, do you guys really believe that they left them fixed on the flagship (=Montage) and changed it on the low cost Modx?
I'm absolutely sure they didn't change the midi channel allocation.
Posted By: KorgyPorky

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/14/18 05:16 PM

The modx6 is only 7 kg light..
It could be the perfect travel companion..
Add your macbook and blast away..

One would wish, the montage 2 will have the same light builds as these modx builds... the 8 is just 14 kg, for a weighted keybed..

Now the main question, will my montage performances and sets cary over?
Posted By: fjzingo

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/14/18 05:26 PM

No but you never know....
Originally Posted By: mojkarma
Regarding the midi channel, do you guys really believe that they left them fixed on the flagship (=Montage) and changed it on the low cost Modx?
I'm absolutely sure they didn't change the midi channel allocation.
Posted By: fjzingo

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/14/18 05:32 PM

Seems like its the same as the montage, part 1 midichannel 1 in according to the manual.
Posted By: SeaGtGruff

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/14/18 05:35 PM

Originally Posted By: fjzingo
No but you never know....
Originally Posted By: mojkarma
Regarding the midi channel, do you guys really believe that they left them fixed on the flagship (=Montage) and changed it on the low cost Modx?
I'm absolutely sure they didn't change the midi channel allocation.


Exactly, especially since they apparently added a song sequencer back, which the MONTAGE doesn't have.

With XG you can assign the channels however you want, although they do default to channel# = part#. However, the Owner's Manual doesn't say that it has XG compatibility, so I guess not?
Posted By: mojkarma

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/14/18 05:58 PM

Originally Posted By: SeaGtGruff
Originally Posted By: fjzingo
No but you never know....
Originally Posted By: mojkarma
Regarding the midi channel, do you guys really believe that they left them fixed on the flagship (=Montage) and changed it on the low cost Modx?
I'm absolutely sure they didn't change the midi channel allocation.


Exactly, especially since they apparently added a song sequencer back, which the MONTAGE doesn't have.


Not really true! The Montage has a song sequencer. It is most probably the same in the Modx. This is not the sequencer like in Kronos or the Motif line, it is a scratch pad where you can record your ideas, all tracks at once and then transfer them to cubase or any other sequencer.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/14/18 07:21 PM

Originally Posted By: zephonic
Crazy, right now my preferred (lightweight) rig would be a Montage 7 on top of a MODX8. But that's just too much Yamaha in one rig!

Since clonewheel organ, VA synth, and aftertouch seem like the big gaps, my preferred rig might be Nord Stage 3 Compact on top of a MODX8. (Flipping the two in terms of actions would be lighter, but would cost me the drawbars.)

Originally Posted By: GregC
The 4 models of the Kronos family (LS, Kross, Krome) are showing their age IMO.

In that niche, Korg should be prepared to completely re-vamp all 4 boards. I also thought a price reduction on Kronos is long over due.

Kross has nothing in common with Kronos except starting with KR, and it was recently revamped. (Krome is not much closer to Kronos than Kross is, just borrowing a bit of piano/EP I think.)

But I still see Kronos as perfectly current. That's kind of the beauty of a software based system. There's stuff I'd like to see, but I'm not sure it needs any new hardware. What do you think it's missing to be competitive?

Originally Posted By: GregC
there are a few useful features, I agree. And the FA is a useful, neat solution...with some effort, I think the features can be appended to the MODx.

Sure. Just buy an FA-06 and a MIDI cable. ;-) Really, I don't see them adding any of the FA features I mentioned to a MODX. Most are probably impossible.

Originally Posted By: Mighty Motif Max
Originally Posted By: fjzingo
So how is midi implemented, does each part have a fixed midichannel?
I want to know this too. +1
Originally Posted By: mojkarma
Regarding the midi channel, do you guys really believe that they left them fixed on the flagship (=Montage) and changed it on the low cost Modx?

What exactly is the issue here? As I referenced above, it looks to me lke the Montage permits user assignment of MIDI channels. See http://montageforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=19 - What am I missing?
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/14/18 07:35 PM

For those busy searching for the 50" ATA case for me, first off I want to thank you. Second ... so far, I've found one:

GTSA-KEY61

SW states external length is exactly 50" and accommodates 44" internal length. I would post Gator's webpage to avoid a retailer advertisement but Gator doesnt post the specs of their products. which is weird. I typed dimensions into Gator page and they did reply back with this case as optimal. Apologies if this was bad of me... I'm not recommending anyone buy here, I just didn't find published detail specs anywhere else yet.

Internal Length: 44"
Internal Width: 17.38"
Internal Height: 6"
External Length: 50"
External Width: 21.5"
External Height: 9"

anyone have experience with this line of gator cases? in particular the hinges - are they robust and rugged?

find other ATA cases at 50" and under yet? its ok, keep looking... smile
Posted By: GregC

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/14/18 07:44 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
[q

Originally Posted By: GregC
The 4 models of the Kronos family (LS, Kross, Krome) are showing their age IMO.

In that niche, Korg should be prepared to completely re-vamp all 4 boards. I also thought a price reduction on Kronos is long over due.

Kross has nothing in common with Kronos except starting with KR, and it was recently revamped. (Krome is not much closer to Kronos than Kross is, just borrowing a bit of piano/EP I think.)

But I still see Kronos as perfectly current. That's kind of the beauty of a software based system. There's stuff I'd like to see, but I'm not sure it needs any new hardware. What do you think it's missing to be competitive?


?


Korg seems to present Kross is in the family , headed by Daddy Kronos. Look at their product page. All 4 bunched together. Maybe they just stuck Kross in their.

Re: Kronos. I am from the school of what have you done for me lately. And its been 17 months. of no upgrades. Sure, its still selling. I know its strengths.

So maybe Kronos has reached its zenith for further improvement. Its quite easy to max out polyphony, if you lay down 10 or more tracks. Thats on top of my wish list , more processing power, solve the constraints . This might enable a new sound engine.
Many have a long wish list, like I do.

This has been debated thoroughly. I think Korg should be more communicative which would allow some long time owners to plan.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/14/18 07:52 PM

Originally Posted By: GregC
Korg seems to present Kross is in the family , headed by Daddy Kronos. Look at their product page. All 4 bunched together. Maybe they just stuck Kross in their.

Strictly a marketing thing. Kronos was a hit, and they want to hitch all the lesser workstations to that wagon, and give them KR names, but look at the tech... Kross/Krome have zero of the nine engines of a Kronos. Or maybe a lesser version of one of the nine, depending on how you want to look at it.

Originally Posted By: GregC
its been 17 months. of no upgrades.

I'd say that's not uncommon for any model of any brand, except maybe Nord.

Originally Posted By: GregC
I think Korg should be more communicative which would allow some long time owners to plan.

Korg is no less communicative than anyone else, though.
Posted By: SeaGtGruff

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/14/18 08:24 PM

Originally Posted By: mojkarma
Originally Posted By: SeaGtGruff
they apparently added a song sequencer back, which the MONTAGE doesn't have.


Not really true! The Montage has a song sequencer. It is most probably the same in the Modx. This is not the sequencer like in Kronos or the Motif line, it is a scratch pad where you can record your ideas, all tracks at once and then transfer them to cubase or any other sequencer.


Oops! My bad. I was just going by what Woody(?) was saying in his unboxing video, which I was watching on one screen while keeping up with the forums on another screen. By an odd coincidence he had just gotten to the page in the "getting started" guide (I forget the exact title) where it described the song sequencer, and he said it was interesting to see it because it had been removed from the MONTAGE. I paused his video at that point, posted my comment, and then had to take care of other stuff so I didn't finish watching his video. For all I know, he corrected himself later on. frown
Posted By: Sam Mullins

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/14/18 09:28 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott


What exactly is the issue here? As I referenced above, it looks to me lke the Montage permits user assignment of MIDI channels. See http://montageforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=19 - What am I missing?


I think your reference talks about setting the tranmsit channel...but it's the receive channel that has the limitation.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/14/18 11:40 PM

Originally Posted By: Sam Mullins
I think your reference talks about setting the tranmsit channel...but it's the receive channel that has the limitation.

Ah, thanks!
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/15/18 01:25 AM

Still wondering whether the lack of a Pure Analog Circuit (PAC) will show.
Posted By: KorgyPorky

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/15/18 02:02 AM

Originally Posted By: Fleer
Still wondering whether the lack of a Pure Analog Circuit (PAC) will show.


No, because you record over usb directly into the daw..and didnít use it..
And in live situations noboddy notices the subtile differences
Posted By: mojkarma

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/15/18 04:45 AM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: Sam Mullins
I think your reference talks about setting the tranmsit channel...but it's the receive channel that has the limitation.

Ah, thanks!


The receive channels are fixed per part. If you want to play two parts on the Montage from an external keyboard, the external keyboard must have two parts where you can set different midi channels. On a Kronos for example, you can set 5, 9 or all 16 parts to the same channel and control it from an external keyboard from a single zone set to the respective midichannel on your midicontroller. On Montage, for each internal part on it, you must have a zone on your midicontroller. To control 8 parts on the montage, your midicontroller must have 8 zones.
Posted By: MIDI2XS

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/15/18 09:37 AM

Easy Sounds has a special MODX "Music Production Guide" issue.

http://www.easysounds.eu/MusicProductionGuide_2018_MODX_EN.pdf
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/15/18 10:22 AM

Originally Posted By: mojkarma
The receive channels are fixed per part. If you want to play two parts on the Montage from an external keyboard, the external keyboard must have two parts where you can set different midi channels. On a Kronos for example, you can set 5, 9 or all 16 parts to the same channel and control it from an external keyboard from a single zone set to the respective midichannel on your midicontroller. On Montage, for each internal part on it, you must have a zone on your midicontroller. To control 8 parts on the montage, your midicontroller must have 8 zones.

Got it. Luckily, not an issue for me. Integrating external sounds might be important for me, but being a sound source for another keyboard isn't... and if I did use that function, it is very unlikely I'd be in a situation where I'd need more than one sound triggered remotely AND my remote board didn't support more than one zone. Too many uncommon (for me) things would have to fall into place at the same time, not gonna happen.

But in checking into this, I think saying "To control 8 parts on the montage, your midicontroller must have 8 zones" is not necessarily true... it looks like you could do that with the setting: ďMIDI I/O ModeĒ = Single -- no?
Posted By: benj2017

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/15/18 11:20 AM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: mojkarma
The receive channels are fixed per part. If you want to play two parts on the Montage from an external keyboard, the external keyboard must have two parts where you can set different midi channels. On a Kronos for example, you can set 5, 9 or all 16 parts to the same channel and control it from an external keyboard from a single zone set to the respective midichannel on your midicontroller. On Montage, for each internal part on it, you must have a zone on your midicontroller. To control 8 parts on the montage, your midicontroller must have 8 zones.

Got it. Luckily, not an issue for me. Integrating external sounds might be important for me, but being a sound source for another keyboard isn't... and if I did use that function, it is very unlikely I'd be in a situation where I'd need more than one sound triggered remotely AND my remote board didn't support more than one zone. Too many uncommon (for me) things would have to fall into place at the same time, not gonna happen.

But in checking into this, I think saying "To control 8 parts on the montage, your midicontroller must have 8 zones" is not necessarily true... it looks like you could do that with the setting: ďMIDI I/O ModeĒ = Single -- no?


I think there are some variables to this situation. If all you want to do is control a layer or split that is set from the Montage, then you could probably make it work with the single setting, but it might be tricky as you wouldn't want the Montage sending MIDI on the same channel.

However, if you want more flexibility and want to always be able to hit a certain voice on a specific channel while playing a split/layer and be able to switch back and forth quickly without changing the Montage performance, then its a issue.

I think the main point is that on a multi-timbral/multi-part instrument you should be able to change the midi channel per part. It's not rocket science, I've been doing it with Rolands, Yamahas, and Korgs for years now. The only reason it's a thing on the Montage and MODX is that is how Performances worked on the Motif and the guys at Yamaha are either too lazy or cheap to fix it.
Posted By: Synthoid

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/15/18 11:39 AM

Time for Korg to play catch-up.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/15/18 12:11 PM

Originally Posted By: benj2017
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
I think saying "To control 8 parts on the montage, your midicontroller must have 8 zones" is not necessarily true... it looks like you could do that with the setting: ďMIDI I/O ModeĒ = Single -- no?

I think there are some variables to this situation. If all you want to do is control a layer or split that is set from the Montage, then you could probably make it work with the single setting...However, if you want more flexibility and want to always be able to hit a certain voice on a specific channel while playing a split/layer and be able to switch back and forth quickly without changing the Montage performance, then its a issue.

The way it looks to me is that the Montage easily lets you use a single-zone external controller to play either a single Montage sound or an entire set of split/layered Montage sounds, but does not let you selectively trigger anything between those "one" and "all" options... for that, your external controller would, itself, need to support more than one zone. I think this is what you're saying, yes? I'm assuming this will be the same on the MODX. Personally, I don't find this to be an issue, especially on a lower cost board that is designed to cover "most of what most people need" though I can see where more could be disappointed that even the flagship doesn't have that kind of versatility. But I can also be devil's advocate and say, if you're assembling a high-end "do everything" system, why skimp on the auxiliary controller? Choose a multi-zone board for your external controller, problem solved. After all, complexity has been the biggest knock on the Motf series over the years, and so there is arguably something to be said for a little Nordification, i.e. leaving out options that few people need and/or can easily be addressed some other way, to make the board simpler.
Posted By: stoken6

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/15/18 12:24 PM

This is exactly how the Alesis QS works. You can't trigger more than one internal zone on the same MIDI channel.

I find it irritating, tbh. I gig with a controller under a top board (historically QS6, before that Ensoniq SQ1, now Nord NS2). I like to be able to leave my controller "buried", with just keys and maybe wheels accessible. If I need a single zone across the entire controller for one song, and a four-way split or layer on the next, that's the job of the top board. Even Nord make this awkward on the Stage 2. I can use Dual Keyboard, which gives me a piano/organ/synth downstairs, but loses a piano/organ/synth upstairs. Now I rarely need to layer /split two pianos or organs upstairs, but two synths very frequently (e.g. octave brass/string patches).

So I use the ability to take an individual section (e.g. Piano A) and make it addressable via MIDI only (i.e. assigned to no zone on the Nord's keyboard). That leaves me with just piano downstairs, and all the complicated split/layer stuff upstairs. I make it work, but it's a complication I could do without. Nord's implementation on the Stage 3 (where Dual Keyboard can "take over" any of the individual sections) is much more in line with what I'd like.

Honestly, Kurzweil and Roland seem to do this without making it difficult to use. I don't buy the explanation that Yamaha would prevent multiple zones sharing a MIDI channel is "ease of use".

Cheers, Mike.
Posted By: Sam Mullins

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/15/18 12:49 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott

The way it looks to me is that the Montage easily lets you use a single-zone external controller to play either a single Montage sound or an entire set of split/layered Montage sounds, but does not let you selectively trigger anything between those "one" and "all" options... for that, your external controller would, itself, need to support more than one zone. I think this is what you're saying, yes? I'm assuming this will be the same on the MODX. Personally, I don't find this to be an issue, especially on a lower cost board that is designed to cover "most of what most people need" though I can see where more could be disappointed that even the flagship doesn't have that kind of versatility. But I can also be devil's advocate and say, if you're assembling a high-end "do everything" system, why skimp on the auxiliary controller? Choose a multi-zone board for your external controller, problem solved. After all, complexity has been the biggest knock on the Motf series over the years, and so there is arguably something to be said for a little Nordification, i.e. leaving out options that few people need and/or can easily be addressed some other way, to make the board simpler.


I donít have a dog in this fight because I jumped ship from a long line of Motif-based keyboards to Kronos instead of Montage because of precisely this limitation. Iím quite happy with my Kronos so I really donít care if they ever change this...but it just seems like Yamaha is losing sales over something that is useful to many (but admittedly not all) people.

A few points:

- their previous entry in this market segment (MOXF) didnít have this limitation. My Roland JV-1010 (for a few hundred dollars 20 years ago) didnít have this limitation.

- There are ďhigh end controllersĒ you might choose for other reasons (e,g, Nord Stage for all the normal reason you might buy one) that donít implement more than one or two MIDI channel outputs.

- I have a more complicated use case which requires the flexibility, but the basic use case I have heard articulated by many people is this: ďI would like to fly with a Montage 61 and rent any basic MIDI weighted 88 controller that I can get locally, which could often be something with limited transmitting channels like a low end digital piano.Ē
Posted By: mojkarma

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/15/18 01:03 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott

Got it. Luckily, not an issue for me. Integrating external sounds might be important for me, but being a sound source for another keyboard isn't... and if I did use that function, it is very unlikely I'd be in a situation where I'd need more than one sound triggered remotely AND my remote board didn't support more than one zone. Too many uncommon (for me) things would have to fall into place at the same time, not gonna happen.


Well, here's the simple idea: If you have a Montage 6, instead of putting money into another synth/workstation type keyboard, why wouldn't you simply buy a midi controller and create performances/setups on the Montage in a way where some parts are played on the Montage and other from the midi controller? Of course, it depends on what kind of music you make and what your job is on stage. I play concert with a setlist containing about 30 songs, not more. I don't really need two different keyboards. I'd rather invest into one midi controller with hammer weighted keys instead of paying additionally for sounds I don't really need.
And when you say you wouldn't need more than one sound...well, the problem is that Yamaha created some of its best single instrument sounds using more than one part in the performance. One part equals to one single patch/program in old terminology. And one part/patch on a Yamaha montage/motif has 8 elements/oscilators. But the CFX piano is sampled at 9 velocity levels. Therefor, to create the CFX piano with all nine velocity levels, you need at least two parts because one part gives you 8 oscilators. And with pedal off samples and other stuff, yamaha somehow spent four parts for their flagship piano patch on the Montage. Four parts means four different zones with four different midichannels on your external controller. Now, ad to that piano a nice dx E. piano for the LA piano patch, add a pad... you get the picture.

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
But in checking into this, I think saying "To control 8 parts on the montage, your midicontroller must have 8 zones" is not necessarily true... it looks like you could do that with the setting: ďMIDI I/O ModeĒ = Single -- no?


This mode puts absolutely everything to the same midi channel. It also means that your internal parts play on the same channel. So, you cannot use this mode to distribute some of your parts to be controlled from an external controller, this mode actually mirrors the performance with all its parts in a way that it can be played from an external controller. But why would you add an additional external controller to the Montage, just to play the internal performances with all its internal parts if you can do this right on the Montage keyboard_

In short, the Montage is a very bad slave keyboard and if you want to play all the sounds from an Montage between its own keyboard and an additional external controller, you need a capable midicontroller. These days most keyboard controllers are very basic and rarely offer more than 4 zones. If you need more than that, you actually have to buy a "normal" keyboard with 8 or 16 parts. Something like the Kronos or a higher line from Kurzweil. But then you have to spend more money than you initially intended.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/15/18 02:05 PM

Originally Posted By: stoken6
Honestly, Kurzweil and Roland seem to do this without making it difficult to use. I don't buy the explanation that Yamaha would prevent multiple zones sharing a MIDI channel is "ease of use".

It's not that "preventing" something is making it easier, it's that there are fewer options presented, fewer menus to navigate. To exaggerate the point, if you only need three options, it is simpler to operate a board that only has those three options than it is to operate a board that has those same three options listed in a menu among a dozen other options you don't need. The "clutter" of the the things you don't use is part of what makes a board seem complicated.

Whether Kurz manages this without making it difficult to use is debatable, in that traditionally, Kurz has been right up there with Yamaha in terms of people complimenting them for their depth yet also complaining about their complexity. Kurz does have some simpler boards, but can they do this? I don't know. (I also don't know about Roland... the FA has been complimented for its ease of use, but I don't know whether it has this feature...?)

The way Yamaha used to do this is that Song/Pattern Mix Mode allowed you to assign the same MIDI channel to more than one MIDI zone, while Performance mode allowed you to address up to 4 sounds on the single Global/Basic MIDI channel. But one of the things that people found confusing was how operation differed among different modes. You had to know what you could and couldn't do based on which mode you were in, or know which mode you had to be in in order to do something, or different ways to do the same thing depending on what mode you were in. So I think one Montage goal was probably to eliminate modes to help address the complexity issue. That's probably why you can't naturally do this kind of channel assignment anymore, as they built the new platform around something closest to Performance mode (though it also permits assigning sounds to different channels, which used to require Song/Pattern mode). That isn't to say they could not possibly have added more of Mix mode's flexibility to Performance mode, but again, more options = more complexity. But who knows, maybe they will add it in the future...

Though also, beside choosing an external controller that has zone flexibility of its own, there's also the option of saving different Performances set up for the different combinations that you need to trigger externally, as Benj alluded to. So there are multiple ways to skin this cat, and maybe not so many performance things you really can't find some way to do.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/15/18 02:36 PM

Originally Posted By: Sam Mullins
the basic use case I have heard articulated by many people is this: ďI would like to fly with a Montage 61 and rent any basic MIDI weighted 88 controller that I can get locally, which could often be something with limited transmitting channels like a low end digital piano.Ē

Good point. The setting up of different Performances might still get you around this one. But otherwise, maybe an iPhone/iPad app to do MIDI routing? In general I'm more forgiving of stuff that can easily be addressed externally with an approach like that, than I am of things like lack of aftertouch or a bad action that you just can't do anything about.

Originally Posted By: mojkarma
Well, here's the simple idea: If you have a Montage 6, instead of putting money into another synth/workstation type keyboard, why wouldn't you simply buy a midi controller and create performances/setups on the Montage in a way where some parts are played on the Montage and other from the midi controller?

While it may take some more setup time, couldn't you address this by setting up different Performances with the different combinations you need? Or, again, maybe an iOS app.

Originally Posted By: mojkarma
when you say you wouldn't need more than one sound...well, the problem is that Yamaha created some of its best single instrument sounds using more than one part in the performance. One part equals to one single patch/program in old terminology. And one part/patch on a Yamaha montage/motif has 8 elements/oscilators. But the CFX piano is sampled at 9 velocity levels. Therefor, to create the CFX piano with all nine velocity levels, you need at least two parts because one part gives you 8 oscilators. And with pedal off samples and other stuff, yamaha somehow spent four parts for their flagship piano patch on the Montage. Four parts means four different zones with four different midichannels on your external controller.

Ah, I see. Yes, if single sounds end up split over multiple MIDI channels, I see the additional complication. If your controller isn't up to the task, then you'd probably generally have to avoid triggering those sounds remotely, and stick with the simpler sounds.

Originally Posted By: mojkarma
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
But in checking into this, I think saying "To control 8 parts on the montage, your midicontroller must have 8 zones" is not necessarily true... it looks like you could do that with the setting: ďMIDI I/O ModeĒ = Single -- no?

This mode puts absolutely everything to the same midi channel. It also means that your internal parts play on the same channel. So, you cannot use this mode to distribute some of your parts to be controlled from an external controller, this mode actually mirrors the performance with all its parts in a way that it can be played from an external controller. But why would you add an additional external controller to the Montage, just to play the internal performances with all its internal parts if you can do this right on the Montage keyboard

Just for triggering with an alternate action, I guess. But that would let you play the 61/76's high end CFX piano from a hammer action, and then by switching modes, that same keyboard could also function to play single sounds that differ from anything played on the MODX/Montage itself. Can that mode switch be done easily on the fly? But I suspect that an app that lets a single-zone controller function as a multi-zone controller would probably solve all your problems here. I think the MIDI Breakout Box app does it.



Posted By: zephonic

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/15/18 02:39 PM

Now that Iíve thought about it some more, I wonder if the 76 isnít a better fit for me. I was all set on the 88, but the portability of the 7 and the fact that the 8 has the GHS have me second-guessing. Back in the day I used to gig with two semi-weighted 76íers, and I didnít really miss the weighted action that much. But if itís gonna be a 76, I might as well go for the Montage.


The Montage MIDI rx issue surprises me, all multi-timbral keyboards I have owned can do that, and I really donít understand why the Montage (and MODX) canít?
Posted By: stoken6

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/15/18 02:53 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
It's not that "preventing" something is making it easier, it's that there are fewer options presented, fewer menus to navigate.
Oh, I get that completely. I just don't agree with the trade-off. It's a marginal saving in complexity for a substantial loss of functionality, which Sam Mullins articulated very well.

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
traditionally, Kurz has been right up there with Yamaha in terms of people complimenting them for their depth yet also complaining about their complexity.
I hear lots of compliments to Kurz on their depth and capability - from my time with a Kurzweil PC3LE, I found it mucho deep, but completely logical. When I hear complaints about a board's UI here, it's invariably Yamaha, even through arguably those boards are less "deep" than Kurzweils.

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Though also, beside choosing an external controller that has zone flexibility of its own, there's also the option of saving different Performances set up for the different combinations that you need to trigger externally, as Benj alluded to.
I don't see how that would work. Supposing I want:
- Split sounds A and B on a MODX6 with sounds C and D split on a single-channel controller.
Yamaha allows me to split A+B on the MODX6 with either
- Sound C (or D) on its own on the controller (using MIDI I/O Mode=Single)
- A+B on the controller as well (using MIDI I/O Mode=Global or whatever it's called)

Yes with a splittable controller I could do what I want, but now I need the extra complexity of calling up different performances/zone-configurations on the controller as well as changing performances on the MODX. And that precludes a fly+rent approach that Sam Mullins described.

Anyway, I appreciate your contribution here - I'm now off to a gig, but no doubt the debate will still be raging when I'm back...

Cheers, Mike
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/15/18 02:58 PM

Originally Posted By: stoken6
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Though also, beside choosing an external controller that has zone flexibility of its own, there's also the option of saving different Performances set up for the different combinations that you need to trigger externally, as Benj alluded to.
I don't see how that would work. Supposing I want:
- Split sounds A and B on a MODX6 with sounds C and D split on a single-channel controller.
Yamaha allows me to split A+B on the MODX6 with either
- Sound C (or D) on its own on the controller (using MIDI I/O Mode=Single)
- A+B on the controller as well (using MIDI I/O Mode=Global or whatever it's called)

Yes with a splittable controller I could do what I want, but now I need the extra complexity of calling up different performances/zone-configurations on the controller as well as changing performances on the MODX. And that precludes a fly+rent approach that Sam Mullins described.

Yes, I see the limitations there. I think adding an app is probably the best (only?) solution.

Yamaha's big into apps these days. It would be nice for them to make a MIDI Routing app that would be a simple plug-and-play with the Montage/MODX (i.e. that would have a similar UI design, that would use the same terminology, to keep it as simple as possible).
Posted By: mojkarma

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/15/18 03:31 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott

While it may take some more setup time, couldn't you address this by setting up different Performances with the different combinations you need? Or, again, maybe an iOS app.


Of course. I'm using different performances for different parts of the songs I play on stage. However, we never heard from Yamaha why the parts have a fixed midichannel and what it is good for.
Posted By: SeaGtGruff

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/15/18 04:04 PM

It seems like the MIDI channel problem could be fixed with a MIDI Solutions box or two-- take the MIDI coming from your controller, clone it to two or more MIDI OUT ports if you need to send it to multiple receiving devices, and before it gets to the MODX use a processor box to split or clone or modify the events on a given channel based on type of event, Note range, etc., so you can play (control) splits and layers on the MODX without needing more than one zone on your controller.

I do all of that with my computer and DAWs and USB-MIDI. But if you're performing on stage and need a computer-less solution, something like MIDI Solutions should have you covered. And if you're already using a computer onstage for something like Cantabile, then you should be able to do all of the MIDI routing and processing you need to with the computer, making any MIDI channel restrictions a non-issue. But yeah, it smells really stinky when you first read it on paper.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/15/18 05:09 PM

Originally Posted By: mojkarma
Of course. I'm using different performances for different parts of the songs I play on stage. However, we never heard from Yamaha why the parts have a fixed midichannel and what it is good for.

It's good because, for many uses, that's all you need (i.e. running sequences from a DAW, triggering sounds from another board that has zones and/or the ability to select different MIDI channels on the fly). Being able to vary it would provide additional flexibility, at the cost of some additional UI complication for making the settings, and some additional conceptual complexity in that you would no longer be able to assume that sound 1 will be on channel 1, etc. BTW, I believe the Roland Integra 7 module functions the same way. Each Studio Set has 16 sounds, one per channel. It seems to work fine for many people that way.

I'm not saying it wouldn't be useful to be able to change it, but I think it's a pretty specialized need, and one that I think can be solved outboard if need be.
Posted By: fjzingo

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/15/18 05:31 PM

On the montage you can play 8 parts from the internal keyboard, but 16 parts can play at the same time. Adding a mididsolutinspedal or anipad would make all 16 parts available at the same time from the keyboard, at least in theory.....
Posted By: ElmerJFudd

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/15/18 06:01 PM

At this weight if the GHS included feels as well as the Casio. Itís a heck of a lot more sound engine wise than the PX-5S/560 for not an insane amount more. Not much to whine about on the synth action sizes either - but for the thinner key width. Roland FA and Krome should be concerned. Kurzweilís SP6 needs synth action variations.
Posted By: Aidan

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/15/18 06:14 PM

Konaboy live streaming it now...

Posted By: Aidan

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/15/18 06:31 PM

...and...I succumbed. 88 on order, mostly so I can use one keyboard for the Joni shows. smile Cheers Woody...my credit card salutes you.
Posted By: ElmerJFudd

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/15/18 06:48 PM

Awesome, Aidan. Canít wait for the feedback.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/15/18 07:20 PM

Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
At this weight if the GHS included feels as well as the Casio

Generally it doesn't. But often good enough.

Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Itís a heck of a lot more sound engine wise than the PX-5S/560 for not an insane amount more.

...which I think you could also say about SP6, Kross, MX88 (and, some others at a bit higher weight). Though the MODX is pricier (as the MOXF was, but it was also heavier). PX5S advantages remain primarily footprint, weight, action; and in some comparisons, 4-zone MIDI controls with a bunch of sliders and knobs. I think it has generally been beatable in sound and operational ergonomics for some time. But yes, its competition in a capable low-cost low-weight 88 keeps getting stronger, from a starting point where it basically had none.

Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Roland FA and Krome should be concerned.

As I mentioned earlier, I think FA is still very competitive, though it wouldn't be my choice personally. Krome looks due for an update, I think it's only real edge is in having the sequencer.

Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Kurzweilís SP6 needs synth action variations.

The Artis 7 is still a strong board, in ways better than the SP6 (like 9 sliders), but it would be nice if it got the newer sound set (i.e. pianos/EPs).
Posted By: ElmerJFudd

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/15/18 07:26 PM

Iíd love to see the Artis7 updated instead of a synth action SP6.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/15/18 07:38 PM

Originally Posted By: SeaGtGruff
It seems like the MIDI channel problem could be fixed with a MIDI Solutions box
Originally Posted By: fjzingo
On the montage you can play 8 parts from the internal keyboard, but 16 parts can play at the same time. Adding a mididsolutinspedal or anipad would make all 16 parts available at the same time from the keyboard, at least in theory.....

Yes, if someone doesn't want to get involved with a phone/tablet (or laptop), a MIDI Solutons box might be good way to go. I'm thinking: use the internal keys to trigger whatever combination you want of parts 1-8, and leave the MIDI Solutions Box set to permanently route your secondary controller to parts 9-16. Then set up all your Performances such that whatever you want to play from the internal keys is in the first 8 parts, whatever you want to play from the external keys are in some combination of 9 through 16.

ETA: Looking at some screen shots, it also looks like if you set up the external board to transmit on 9-16, you could also toggle the internal display over to the 9-16 page to turn different sounds on and off on the fly as needed (since we're talking about using controllers that don't, themselves, have the ability to quickly switch among MIDI transmission channels, whether singly or in combination).
Posted By: Stephen Fortner

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/15/18 09:25 PM

Hi all, FWIW I was there, wrote and filmed this:

https://www.keyboardmag.com/gear/yamaha-modx-first-impressions
Posted By: midinut

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/15/18 09:27 PM

So ... where's Bert?
Posted By: Aidan

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/16/18 04:51 AM

Originally Posted By: midinut
So ... where's Bert?


Originally Posted By: bert
Not enough schliders for me, shorry! But maybe my friend Bert Smorgasbord will take a look at it shoon...
Posted By: Aidan

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/16/18 09:38 AM

A more mundane (but accurate) reply
Posted By: konaboy

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/16/18 10:26 AM

thanks Aidan for promoting yesterday's live stream. We explored piano, e-piano, guitar and bass categories for the first time together and had a lot of fun. Completely unrehearsed and spontaneous.

I plan on making a highlights compilation if you don't want to watch the 3 hour stream replay. And I don't blame you a bit!

Very impressed with the sounds so far, a big step up from the Motif & MOXF. But I guess you Montage owners already knew that.

Just a heads-up that I'll continue exploring the sound categories and features tonight (Sunday) at 2100 CEST on Twitch. Your chance to request sounds, songs and ask me questions about the synth.

Have a good one.
https://www.twitch.tv/woodypianoshack
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/16/18 10:47 AM

Does anyone happen to know whether the knobs are endless encoders?

Originally Posted By: Bill W
Originally Posted By: Mighty Motif Max
Sweetwater lists the MODX6 & 7 as having a "LC" synth-weighted keybed.
I wonder if that stands for Low Cwality?

My first thought was Low Cost, which hopefully isn't the same.

Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Itís a heck of a lot more sound engine wise than the PX-5S/560 for not an insane amount more.

actually, it's a pretty substantial price jump, from the $1000 PX5S to the $1900 MODX8. Heck, at that point, for another $400, you could buy a PX5S and a MODX6.
Posted By: Stephen Fortner

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/16/18 01:39 PM

Haha! His name came up, actually. Bert is with Yamaha Europe and this was a Yamaha US event. I saw Bert's Montage demos a couple of Musikmesses ago and they were fantastic as always.
Posted By: ElmerJFudd

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/16/18 01:48 PM

Posted By: Marillo

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/16/18 02:07 PM

I presume the keybed on the 76 is the same as the 61?

Can anyone who's played the 61 comment on what it might be like for piano? I could cope with something like Roland's FA-07 but was hoping for something akin to Yamaha's own piaggero for the 76.
Posted By: Aidan

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/16/18 02:35 PM

Woody commented that the keybed on his 61 felt better than his MOXF. Don't know if that's helpful at all for you.
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/16/18 04:22 PM

Originally Posted By: Aidan
Woody commented that the keybed on his 61 felt better than his MOXF. Don't know if that's helpful at all for you.
i saw him say that when he pulled it out of the box and tapped some keys for about 10 seconds max with it unplugged in powered. Did he say anything about feel after actually playing it? Hard to make that comparison without having them side by side for A/B in real time imo.
Posted By: fjzingo

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/16/18 05:17 PM

If you switch over to cahnnel 9-16 gets played by the internal keyboard instead of of 1-8 if I remember correctly. The scene buttons are great for the purpose of muting unmuting sounds on the fly, I use them all the time. Well woth notibg is that all preprogrammed sounds uses channel 1-8, leavin 9-16 completetly free! Currently I only use midi from my montage to my stage 3, I have planned to use it in the other direcition....someday.

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: SeaGtGruff
It seems like the MIDI channel problem could be fixed with a MIDI Solutions box
Originally Posted By: fjzingo
On the montage you can play 8 parts from the internal keyboard, but 16 parts can play at the same time. Adding a mididsolutinspedal or anipad would make all 16 parts available at the same time from the keyboard, at least in theory.....

Yes, if someone doesn't want to get involved with a phone/tablet (or laptop), a MIDI Solutons box might be good way to go. I'm thinking: use the internal keys to trigger whatever combination you want of parts 1-8, and leave the MIDI Solutions Box set to permanently route your secondary controller to parts 9-16. Then set up all your Performances such that whatever you want to play from the internal keys is in the first 8 parts, whatever you want to play from the external keys are in some combination of 9 through 16.

ETA: Looking at some screen shots, it also looks like if you set up the external board to transmit on 9-16, you could also toggle the internal display over to the 9-16 page to turn different sounds on and off on the fly as needed (since we're talking about using controllers that don't, themselves, have the ability to quickly switch among MIDI transmission channels, whether singly or in combination).
Posted By: dsetto

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/16/18 05:19 PM

I wonder if the MO-class action wears quicker than FSX/BH, thereby contributing to a new MO board feeling better than a well used one.
Posted By: fjzingo

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/16/18 05:48 PM

Cool Stephen,

Whats youre impression of the keybed, ehich one did you test?





Originally Posted By: Stephen Fortner
Hi all, FWIW I was there, wrote and filmed this:

https://www.keyboardmag.com/gear/yamaha-modx-first-impressions
Originally Posted By: Stephen Fortner
Hi all, FWIW I was there, wrote and filmed this:

https://www.keyboardmag.com/gear/yamaha-modx-first-impressions
Posted By: SeaGtGruff

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/16/18 06:03 PM

Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd


Thank you for posting this! A lot of Facebook users were posting some negative comments during his live-stream performance, so it's great to see this.
Posted By: benj2017

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/16/18 06:20 PM

Originally Posted By: fjzingo
If you switch over to cahnnel 9-16 gets played by the internal keyboard instead of of 1-8 if I remember correctly. The scene buttons are great for the purpose of muting unmuting sounds on the fly, I use them all the time. Well woth notibg is that all preprogrammed sounds uses channel 1-8, leavin 9-16 completetly free! Currently I only use midi from my montage to my stage 3, I have planned to use it in the other direcition....someday.

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: SeaGtGruff
It seems like the MIDI channel problem could be fixed with a MIDI Solutions box
Originally Posted By: fjzingo
On the montage you can play 8 parts from the internal keyboard, but 16 parts can play at the same time. Adding a mididsolutinspedal or anipad would make all 16 parts available at the same time from the keyboard, at least in theory.....

Yes, if someone doesn't want to get involved with a phone/tablet (or laptop), a MIDI Solutons box might be good way to go. I'm thinking: use the internal keys to trigger whatever combination you want of parts 1-8, and leave the MIDI Solutions Box set to permanently route your secondary controller to parts 9-16. Then set up all your Performances such that whatever you want to play from the internal keys is in the first 8 parts, whatever you want to play from the external keys are in some combination of 9 through 16.

ETA: Looking at some screen shots, it also looks like if you set up the external board to transmit on 9-16, you could also toggle the internal display over to the 9-16 page to turn different sounds on and off on the fly as needed (since we're talking about using controllers that don't, themselves, have the ability to quickly switch among MIDI transmission channels, whether singly or in combination).


I was actually thinking also of a MIDI solutions box to address this. I'll probably need one at some point anyway if I am going to run an iPad into my rig and send program changes from an app like ForScore, etc.

I am like 99.9999999999% sure that the only reason the MIDI channels are fixed is that the Performance mode on the Montage is an extension of the Performance Mode on the Motif, which also had fixed MIDI channels. They probably figured if it ain't broke...

I think really the issue is that fixing the MIDI channels removes flexibility, which was one of the nice features of the Motif. Yes it had a complicated architecture, but there were usually a few different ways to approach a problem.

My final two cents on this issue are that regardless of whether its good or bad or should be on there or not, to upgrade to the Montage or MODX means that I can't really use the Melas tools to transfer over my current MOXF Splits/Layers without some extensive editing and redesign.

When the time comes to upgrade, which will be soon as I need seamless switching in my life, I'm going to take a hard look at the Kronos, possibly in combination with Nord Stage 3.

Anyway, kudos to the Yamaha keyboard group regardless, the MODX looks like a cool piece of gear that should help them regain some market share.
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/16/18 06:34 PM

Originally Posted By: benj2017
My final two cents on this issue are that regardless of whether its good or bad or should be on there or not, to upgrade to the Montage or MODX means that I can't really use the Melas tools to transfer over my current MOXF Splits/Layers without some extensive editing and redesign.

When the time comes to upgrade, which will be soon as I need seamless switching in my life, I'm going to take a hard look at the Kronos, possibly in combination with Nord Stage 3.

Anyway, kudos to the Yamaha keyboard group regardless, the MODX looks like a cool piece of gear that should help them regain some market share.
are all of your splits layers etc in song/pattern mode?

All of my XF and MOXF programs are in Performance mode (with of course a lot of custom voices as well). Pretty sure I can transfer this all over from either ... will find out when i get ready to pull the trigger.
Posted By: benj2017

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/16/18 06:49 PM

Originally Posted By: MotiDave
Originally Posted By: benj2017
My final two cents on this issue are that regardless of whether its good or bad or should be on there or not, to upgrade to the Montage or MODX means that I can't really use the Melas tools to transfer over my current MOXF Splits/Layers without some extensive editing and redesign.

When the time comes to upgrade, which will be soon as I need seamless switching in my life, I'm going to take a hard look at the Kronos, possibly in combination with Nord Stage 3.

Anyway, kudos to the Yamaha keyboard group regardless, the MODX looks like a cool piece of gear that should help them regain some market share.
are all of your splits layers etc in song/pattern mode?

All of my XF and MOXF programs are in Performance mode (with of course a lot of custom voices as well). Pretty sure I can transfer this all over from either ... will find out when i get ready to pull the trigger.


Yes, long story short I always have Yamaha strings and one of the detuned Dance Synths running on Channels 3 & 16 cause my Stage Ex is lacking in that department. (This way I can always jump to those bread and butter voices on my bottom board - the nord) My splits and layers usually use more than two Voices so hence it is necessary...
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/16/18 08:01 PM

Originally Posted By: benj2017
When the time comes to upgrade, which will be soon as I need seamless switching in my life, I'm going to take a hard look at the Kronos

You probably know this, but just in case... you can do seamless switching on the MOX/MOXF within the sets of 16 sounds you can assemble into songs/patterns. It's something...

As for MODX vs. Kronos, I'm actually looking at moving the other way. I don't gig with the Kronos much, because I'm not inclined to bring around a 30 lb board that gives me only 61 keys. I've most often used a MOX6/MOXF6 instead. But the Set List style screen and DX7 compatibilty and improved seamless swiching now bring three more things I like from the Kronos over to the Yamaha world, in a 16-lb 76-key config, or a hammer action 88 that weighs only about wha the Kronos 61 weighs. So there's that much less in Kronos advantages over Yamaha. Aftertouch and clonewheel are probably the biggest things, and I've got the NS3 for that. Korg had a lightweight 7x key arranger with aftertouch (Pa3X LE), I wished they had built a Kronos into that chassis, but now I see a MODX in my future.
Posted By: FJR

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/17/18 07:45 PM


Question about Montage (possibly modx) polyphony...

Does the 64 note FM polyphony depend on operators? In other words, if you use an 8 operator configuration, does that drastically reduce available FM polyphony?
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/17/18 08:06 PM

Originally Posted By: MotiDave
Originally Posted By: Mighty Motif Max
I see transport controls. Maybe they didn't remove the sequencer? Please??

Edit: Sigh...the pitch and mod wheels are above. Why...


I'm not a Montage expert, but my understanding is Montgae doesn't have a sequencer as most would think of it (16-track midi recorder). I think it can "play" things you load in - maybe that is all those transport buttons do?

Edit Answer: so its shorter? I'm hopeful for that, if I can get a MODX7 into a shorter case that doesn't exceed airlines 50" oversize rule - wahoo! length and weight are two key specs I'm waiting to see.

Motif XF was 49", can't put it in a case and stay under 50". plus weight of 38 lbs requires a more substantial travel case to protect it from airline monkeys. Impossible to stay under 50 lbs there - so double fail on the airline oversize/weight limits. My MOXF6 flies in an SKB molded case (combined MOXF6 + case ~ 35 lbs).

if I could somehow get an MODX7 in a case under those two limits - game changer for me. tbd ...


file in the slow on the uptake folder. Yamaha published official spec of MODX7 at 45". as i panicked i'd never get it in a 50" case I figured I should recheck the airline policies. uh - US airlines are uniform - standard baggage rules apply if length does not exceed 62" (so forget all that 50" crap I was worried about)

So i'm dumb ... but more importantly i'm stoked. It was hard it is to rationalize upgrading to MODX6. MODX7 gets me back int 76 keys (which I do miss on MOXF6) in a superior keyboard I can grow with for another 5 years.

and once again, as is my tradition, i can import all of my current working library of Performances and Voices to be up and running in a day or so, as I slowly learn the new technologies and abilities. Because i really am lazy like that.
Posted By: zephonic

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/17/18 09:40 PM

Originally Posted By: dsetto
I wonder if the MO-class action wears quicker than FSX/BH, thereby contributing to a new MO board feeling better than a well used one.


I have owned three keyboards with the GHS action, a P85, KX8, and now the MX88. In both the P85 and MX88 the action started getting (mechanically) noisy after a few months. Not a problem on stage, but distracting in the studio.

I didnít take the KX8 out much, and disposed of it after less than year, so I donít remember if it exhibited the same issue.
Posted By: Aidan

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/18/18 07:56 AM

Here's an interesting MODX video, in that it shows more of the programming process and interface. This thing is damn deep if you want to go there...

Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/18/18 09:45 AM

Originally Posted By: zephonic
Originally Posted By: dsetto
I wonder if the MO-class action wears quicker than FSX/BH, thereby contributing to a new MO board feeling better than a well used one.


I have owned three keyboards with the GHS action, a P85, KX8, and now the MX88. In both the P85 and MX88 the action started getting (mechanically) noisy after a few months. Not a problem on stage, but distracting in the studio.

I didnít take the KX8 out much, and disposed of it after less than year, so I donít remember if it exhibited the same issue.




I play synth/semi action so donít know GHS. I think MOXF6 is a bit louder and looser than Motif XF, in the scheme of things. Feel is in the same ballpark, not like going from an AP to a tinker toy. I donít notice key sound, iím always either headphones or loud live band. My wife has said i bang keys loud when I practice (headphones :)), So I asked her which is louder - MOXF of XF?

She said ďwhuh? I donít even know which board youíre playing. You still have two keyboards? Huh ...Ē.

So ... no help there smile
Posted By: KorgyPorky

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/18/18 11:54 AM

Originally Posted By: Stephen Fortner
Haha! His name came up, actually. Bert is with Yamaha Europe and this was a Yamaha US event. I saw Bert's Montage demos a couple of Musikmesses ago and they were fantastic as always.


Bert isnít part of Yamaha Europe anymore, altough they often pay him to do some demoís.. he is more freelance these days..
Posted By: Dreamchilde

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/18/18 07:20 PM

Woah, this is legit. Thank goodness for the 76-key version. May have to pull the trigger on this.
Posted By: ElmerJFudd

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/18/18 07:33 PM

Heck at 30lbs 7oz thank goodness for the 8, even with the GHS.
Either the 7 (16lbs 5oz) or 8 is quite capable for a one keyboard gig.
Posted By: ShadowMan

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/19/18 12:21 AM

So this new 76 really has me thinking. I usually gig with an MOXF6 over an Electro 4 73 as a lightweight, do-all rig. I use just the MOXF for rehearsals. The short keybed is the only reason I haven't gigged with it alone on some events... because it really covers most of the core sounds I need quite well - including a lot of the same ground as the Nord. I don't want an 88 due to space and carry limitations

Just wondering how the electric pianos compare to the expansion board & Chick Corea sounds on the MOXF... and if the organs are going to be that much better than the tweaked Organimation patches I really like and use. (Just haven't been able to tell from the videos so far.)

Anyone have any thoughts?
Posted By: zephonic

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/19/18 01:16 AM

The Montage libraries are available for the MODX as well:

https://usa.yamaha.com/products/music_production/synthesizers/modx/sound_library.html


I was all set on the 88, but now Iím thinking I may want to get a 76 instead. Or both!
Posted By: KorgyPorky

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/19/18 02:26 AM

Originally Posted By: zephonic
The Montage libraries are available for the MODX as well:

https://usa.yamaha.com/products/music_production/synthesizers/modx/sound_library.html


I was all set on the 88, but now Iím thinking I may want to get a 76 instead. Or both!


Same sound engine..

A montage 8 for the studio and a modx7 for the road makes sense...
you can take all your montage performances to your gigs in a lightweight package...
Posted By: RudyS

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/19/18 04:15 AM

Originally Posted By: zephonic
Domi is beast! She really tore it up. I hadn't heard of her before. The future of music is in good hands.

edit:
Actually, I did see a vid of her sightreading Corey Henry's Lingus solo a while back. No idea it was the same girl.


Watched some clips from her on Youtube because of your comment. Wow, very talented lady. I really think see will be big in a few years. Not only because of her shredding, but she also has a really nice musical vibe going on. Female Cory Henry:)
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/19/18 09:53 AM

Originally Posted By: KorgyPorky
Originally Posted By: zephonic
The Montage libraries are available for the MODX as well:

https://usa.yamaha.com/products/music_production/synthesizers/modx/sound_library.html


I was all set on the 88, but now Iím thinking I may want to get a 76 instead. Or both!


Same sound engine..

A montage 8 for the studio and a modx7 for the road makes sense...
you can take all your montage performances to your gigs in a lightweight package...
Same design architecture but Iíd check the fine print on complete compatibility assumptions. Over on the Yamaha forum, Phil has explained at length that a MODX file caít be read by a Montage. I think (donít know) the reverse is ok - MODX can read a Montage file?

There is going to be a lot of content available for MODX - a lot already out. Easy Sounds had all of their Montage libraries re-jiggered for MODX and all set to launch same day as the MODX release. Others will also ...

Melas tools may solve any conversion issues for those that want to go from MODX back to Montage, not sure.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/19/18 12:12 PM

Originally Posted By: zephonic
I was all set on the 88, but now Iím thinking I may want to get a 76 instead. Or both!

Same, except reverse. ;-) I know I want the 76, but it's tempting to think about having the 88 as well, so I wouldn't need to go with three boards when I want my Yamaha, my Nord Stage 3 Compact, and also a weighted action.
Posted By: KorgyPorky

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/19/18 12:20 PM

Originally Posted By: MotiDave
Originally Posted By: KorgyPorky
Originally Posted By: zephonic
The Montage libraries are available for the MODX as well:

https://usa.yamaha.com/products/music_production/synthesizers/modx/sound_library.html


I was all set on the 88, but now Iím thinking I may want to get a 76 instead. Or both!


Same sound engine..

A montage 8 for the studio and a modx7 for the road makes sense...
you can take all your montage performances to your gigs in a lightweight package...
Same design architecture but Iíd check the fine print on complete compatibility assumptions. Over on the Yamaha forum, Phil has explained at length that a MODX file caít be read by a Montage. I think (donít know) the reverse is ok - MODX can read a Montage file?

There is going to be a lot of content available for MODX - a lot already out. Easy Sounds had all of their Montage libraries re-jiggered for MODX and all set to launch same day as the MODX release. Others will also ...

Melas tools may solve any conversion issues for those that want to go from MODX back to Montage, not sure.


Just to quote Phil, Bad mister :

The MODX (2018) will certainly be able to load any data made for MONTAGE (2016)...
The MONTAGE cannot Load MODX proprietary Files.

It has to do with the fact that the modx has a newer data format then the montage..
So it works one way only, from the older to the newer instrument..
Posted By: Dreamchilde

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/19/18 02:41 PM

Do we know if this board will still stream .WAV files from a USB drive?
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/19/18 03:44 PM

Originally Posted By: Dreamchilde
Do we know if this board will still stream .WAV files from a USB drive?
Ref Manual states this:

FYI - Owner Manual Pg 48: Playing an audio file
Quote:
As described below, the MODX can play audio files (.wav) from a USB flash drive, regardless of whether they have been created by the instrument itself or come from another source.

1 Connect a USB flash drive to the [USB TO DEVICE] terminal of the MODX.
2 Touch the [Play/Rec] tab  [Audio] tab at the left side of the Performance display.
3 Touch ďAudio NameĒ and then select [Load] menu at the left side of the screen.
4 Select the source USB flash drive and folder.
5 Select the desired file (.wav) on the USB flash drive to execute the Load operation.
6 Press the [R] (Play) button. The audio file will begin playing.
7 Move the cursor to ďAudio VolumeĒ (2), and then adjust the playback volume by using the data dial.
8 Press the [J] (Stop) button to stop playback.

NOTE Keep in mind that you can also play a selected Performance on the keyboard during audio playback.

What I'd like to do is link a playback audio file to a particular performance. For example, one of my bands plays an intro audio clip to start a particular song - its about 30 seconds or so. Currently i plug an mp3 player into the A/D Input jacks and have that "song" it its own playlist alone. If I could link a file to a Performance so when I select that Performance, the audio file loads and is ready to go - that would be cool.

Like #2 - even better would be to have it loaded/saved into the board so I don't even need to use a USB flash drive.
Posted By: Dreamchilde

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/19/18 04:00 PM

Originally Posted By: MotiDave
Originally Posted By: Dreamchilde
Do we know if this board will still stream .WAV files from a USB drive?
Ref Manual states this:

FYI - Owner Manual Pg 48: Playing an audio file
Quote:
As described below, the MODX can play audio files (.wav) from a USB flash drive, regardless of whether they have been created by the instrument itself or come from another source.

1 Connect a USB flash drive to the [USB TO DEVICE] terminal of the MODX.
2 Touch the [Play/Rec] tab  [Audio] tab at the left side of the Performance display.
3 Touch ďAudio NameĒ and then select [Load] menu at the left side of the screen.
4 Select the source USB flash drive and folder.
5 Select the desired file (.wav) on the USB flash drive to execute the Load operation.
6 Press the [R] (Play) button. The audio file will begin playing.
7 Move the cursor to ďAudio VolumeĒ (2), and then adjust the playback volume by using the data dial.
8 Press the [J] (Stop) button to stop playback.

NOTE Keep in mind that you can also play a selected Performance on the keyboard during audio playback.

What I'd like to do is link a playback audio file to a particular performance. For example, one of my bands plays an intro audio clip to start a particular song - its about 30 seconds or so. Currently i plug an mp3 player into the A/D Input jacks and have that "song" it its own playlist alone. If I could link a file to a Performance so when I select that Performance, the audio file loads and is ready to go - that would be cool.

Like #2 - even better would be to have it loaded/saved into the board so I don't even need to use a USB flash drive.


Fantastic. That's how I stream my backing tracks on my MX61. Was thinking about upgrading to the MOXF, but now this is probably what I'll get.

Can't wait to see/hear comparisons to the FA-07.
Posted By: Dreamchilde

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/19/18 04:00 PM

Originally Posted By: Dreamchilde
Originally Posted By: MotiDave
Originally Posted By: Dreamchilde
Do we know if this board will still stream .WAV files from a USB drive?
Ref Manual states this:

FYI - Owner Manual Pg 48: Playing an audio file
Quote:
As described below, the MODX can play audio files (.wav) from a USB flash drive, regardless of whether they have been created by the instrument itself or come from another source.

1 Connect a USB flash drive to the [USB TO DEVICE] terminal of the MODX.
2 Touch the [Play/Rec] tab  [Audio] tab at the left side of the Performance display.
3 Touch ďAudio NameĒ and then select [Load] menu at the left side of the screen.
4 Select the source USB flash drive and folder.
5 Select the desired file (.wav) on the USB flash drive to execute the Load operation.
6 Press the [R] (Play) button. The audio file will begin playing.
7 Move the cursor to ďAudio VolumeĒ (2), and then adjust the playback volume by using the data dial.
8 Press the [J] (Stop) button to stop playback.

NOTE Keep in mind that you can also play a selected Performance on the keyboard during audio playback.

What I'd like to do is link a playback audio file to a particular performance. For example, one of my bands plays an intro audio clip to start a particular song - its about 30 seconds or so. Currently i plug an mp3 player into the A/D Input jacks and have that "song" it its own playlist alone. If I could link a file to a Performance so when I select that Performance, the audio file loads and is ready to go - that would be cool.

Like #2 - even better would be to have it loaded/saved into the board so I don't even need to use a USB flash drive.


Fantastic. That's how I stream my backing tracks on my MX61. Was thinking about upgrading to the MOXF, but now this is probably what I'll get.

Can't wait to see/hear comparisons to the FA-07.


Could you load it into the Flash RAM?
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/19/18 04:15 PM

Originally Posted By: Dreamchilde
Could you load it into the Flash RAM?

I assume you could load it to Flash and create a one-sample waveform which you could then assign to a Part with the specifics (play till end, assign a key, don't adjust tune scale to key, etc.). Then put the Part in a Performance and trigger (play) it with the key you select. I could do that in XF and MOXF, and did it on just a couple items. Benefit is you can loop a clip thats converted into a waveform, which was great for clipping in one cycle of the sweep synth sound in the intro to Moving in Stereo back when I did a Cars tribute band. In the real studio song, the sweep timing varied but nobody in audience knew or cared. It was a signature sound in the song, needed to be there.

There's no need to loop a one-shot intro audio clip - that process was sort of a pain in XF, not the most elegant solution to just play a clip. Maybe it will be easier in the MODX.
Posted By: echo66

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/19/18 06:29 PM

I stream backing tracks as described above from a usb drive on the Montage.

One great thing is that the later OS allows you to go back to the Live Sets page while it is playing back - and you can change performances/sounds on the fly also while it is playing back. Works great live, and also so easy to add new songs!
Posted By: ElmerJFudd

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/19/18 06:31 PM

Howís the Montage for one shot samples? Same process will carry over to the MODX I presume.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/19/18 08:15 PM

Originally Posted By: Dreamchilde
Can't wait to see/hear comparisons to the FA-07.

Well to start, at least for "real instrument" sounds, I thought even the MOXF was generally superior to the FA-07, and the MODX will beat the MOXF. For synth sounds, I might have given Roland the edge with its Supernatural synth, but now the MODX has the whole FM synth section.

As a live performance board, the FA had some feature/functionality advantages over the MOXF, some of which it retains over the MODX (trigger pads, assignable out, drawbar-adjustable organ), and some of which Yamaha has caught up on or exceeded (big screen interface, availability of 76 keys, seamless sound switching), while there are other areas where Yamaha had the edge and still does, like loading keyboard-playable custom samples (which no longer requires purchase of an additional card) and having two effects per sound vs. one. And I'll take the superknob over the d-beam. ;-)
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/19/18 08:20 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: Dreamchilde
Can't wait to see/hear comparisons to the FA-07.

Well to start, at least for "real instrument" sounds, I thought even the MOXF was generally superior to the FA-07, and the MODX will beat the MOXF. For synth sounds, I might have given Roland the edge with its Supernatural synth, but now the MODX has the whole FM synth section.

As a live performance board, the FA had some feature/functionality advantages over the MOXF, some of which it retains over the MODX (trigger pads, assignable out, drawbar-adjustable organ), and some of which Yamaha has caught up on or exceeded (big screen interface, availability of 76 keys, seamless sound switching), while there are other areas where Yamaha had the edge and still does, like loading keyboard-playable custom samples (which no longer requires purchase of an additional card) and having two effects per sound vs. one. And I'll take the superknob over the d-beam. ;-)

a superknob can crush a d-beam smile
Posted By: Dreamchilde

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/19/18 08:21 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: Dreamchilde
Can't wait to see/hear comparisons to the FA-07.

Well to start, at least for "real instrument" sounds, I thought even the MOXF was generally superior to the FA-07, and the MODX will beat the MOXF. For synth sounds, I might have given Roland the edge with its Supernatural synth, but now the MODX has the whole FM synth section.

As a live performance board, the FA had some feature/functionality advantages over the MOXF, some of which it retains over the MODX (trigger pads, assignable out, drawbar-adjustable organ), and some of which Yamaha has caught up on or exceeded (big screen interface, availability of 76 keys, seamless sound switching), while there are other areas where Yamaha had the edge and still does, like loading keyboard-playable custom samples (which no longer requires purchase of an additional card) and having two effects per sound vs. one. And I'll take the superknob over the d-beam. ;-)


Always love your insights, man.
Posted By: cgrafx

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/19/18 09:00 PM

Clearly not something that can be changed at this point, but really wish manufacturers would stop creating toy keyboards. PUT the power supply into the damn thing and let me plug it into the wall.

Wall warts are for toys.
Posted By: Reezekeys

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/19/18 09:59 PM

Wall warts are for easy UL compliance.
Posted By: Aidan

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/19/18 11:58 PM

The thing I'm most excited about? Audio interface (and a place to put your computer) on a lightweight 88 is a painless way for me to begin using a laptop live. So any sonic shortcomings on the MODX can be addressed via MainStage.
Posted By: cgrafx

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/20/18 12:00 AM

Originally Posted By: Reezekeys
Wall warts are for easy UL compliance.


I know why they do it, but that doesn't change the fact that its not compatible with gigging musicians. Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should.

Its not supposed to be about whats easier for them, its supposed to be about what makes sense for their customers.

Once again, wall warts are for toys.

The fact that I'd have to carry around an external power supply makes the keyboard a non-starter.

They only way I'd ever consider a MODX would be if I modified it and put a real power supply inside the case where it belongs.
Posted By: Aidan

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/20/18 12:26 AM

Originally Posted By: cgrafx
Its not supposed to be about whats easier for them, its supposed to be about what makes sense for their customers.


Their customers (for this particular line) basically want a Montage at considerably reduced cost. Using external power supplies is one of the factors which make the keyboard cheaper. So actually, that DOES make sense for their customers.

Originally Posted By: cgrafx
The fact that I'd have to carry around an external power supply makes the keyboard a non-starter.


Really? I mean, really? Yes, it's a bit of a PITA for sure but 'non starter'? At worst, it means buying a second (light, cheap) PSU and adding it to your spares bag. I presume you do carry a spares bag with at least 'one of everything', yes?

Tough crowd, as they say...
Posted By: davedoerfler

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/20/18 12:41 AM

Originally Posted By: cgrafx

Once again, wall warts are for toys.
The fact that I'd have to carry around an external power supply makes the keyboard a non-starter.


Welcome to the forum. wave

Maybe you have heard of Moog Moogerfoogers. Some guy name John Medeski uses them live, you may have heard of him. They require external power supplies. I'm sure you will find something in the current market place that works for you, this product is not it.
Originally Posted By: cgrafx

They only way I'd ever consider a MODX would be if I modified it and put a real power supply inside the case where it belongs.


So then just buy a Montage and you are good to go and won't have to do any modifiactions.. thu
Posted By: Nathanael_I

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/20/18 01:56 AM

My Minimoog Model D Re-issue has an external power supply. Moog does provide a locking type connector for it, but really it isn't an issue. I velcro the cables to the stand legs and there is no strain on it all night - just like the signal cables.

I wouldn't overlook the quality/value of this synth for that alone. The way it is priced, even if the keybed is marginal, it can be played from almost anything else. And so light in the 61/76 versions!
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/20/18 02:29 AM

Wall wart isnít a deal killer for me. Internal is nicer but when it comes to choosing a board, its not something that is remotely a factor. And on stage, iíve never once plugged my MOXF in and started cursing ďdangalangabangbang - plugging in my Motif XF is sooooo much easier!!!Ē

Not once. Hasnít even crossed my mind. I did have one stage with a sketchy receptacle so i taped it down with gaff tape to be sure it didnít pop out. Once - in 2 yrs.
Posted By: stoken6

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/20/18 06:25 AM

My problem with wall warts is reliability - those flimsy wires and barrel plugs can break easily, particularly during setup/tear-down. I velcro a PSU to the device to keep the fragile parts out of harm's way.

Typically I use an aftermarket PSU with an IEC socket on it, which keeps all mains connections consistent.

Example on my Rolls PM351.



Cheers, Mike.
Posted By: Aidan

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/20/18 08:09 AM

My MODX8 should arrive tomorrow. Will update you all then.
Posted By: Swithin

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/20/18 08:14 AM

Very much looking forward to reading your impressions of the MODX - both when you receive it and during the coming months!
Posted By: stoken6

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/20/18 08:53 AM

Hope you enjoy it Aidan, looks like a nice board. Will you keep the Tyros?

Cheers, Mike.
Posted By: DanL

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/20/18 08:53 AM

Originally Posted By: cgrafx
Originally Posted By: Reezekeys
Wall warts are for easy UL compliance.


I know why they do it, but that doesn't change the fact that its not compatible with gigging musicians. Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should.

Its not supposed to be about whats easier for them, its supposed to be about what makes sense for their customers.

Once again, wall warts are for toys.

The fact that I'd have to carry around an external power supply makes the keyboard a non-starter.

They only way I'd ever consider a MODX would be if I modified it and put a real power supply inside the case where it belongs.


You have to "carry around" a power cord for the keyboard with an internal supply right? Not much different. Many of us "gigging musicians" don't see a problem. There are a lot of pro pieces of gear that use external power supplies.
Posted By: Synthoid

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/20/18 09:12 AM

Originally Posted By: DanL
You have to "carry around" a power cord for the keyboard with an internal supply right? Not much different.


Well, they are fine until you misplace one of them. frown

Synths with internal power supplies normally use a standard cord... I always carry an extra.

Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/20/18 09:35 AM

Extensive conversation about reasons for external PSUs, modifying boards to not need them, safely attaching them to boards, etc. at http://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2882741/
Posted By: Kalin

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/20/18 10:09 AM

Making preset changes, edits, etc counting mainly on the touchscreen feels a bit uncomfortable to me. According to Blake Angelo, it's the same Montage screen...on the other hand, watching this BoBeats demo, one could see its not so perfect..Anyway, the sound is fascinating even not having this top quality of Montage DACs.
Posted By: Aidan

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/20/18 10:14 AM

Originally Posted By: stoken6
Hope you enjoy it Aidan, looks like a nice board. Will you keep the Tyros?


Yes, but it will now mostly stay home, I think. I have been using it for some of the orchestral sounds on the Joni shows, but hopefully the MODX should cover all those bases with one board, and even if not certainly should with the addition of my Macbook Pro running something like Garritan Personal Orchestra.

The two boards that will be heading out will be my Kurz PC361 (now rather aged) and the Casio PX-5S (used only for a back-up for a couple of years now, and I can't justify having three 88s for piano work).
Posted By: Bobby Simons

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/20/18 11:08 AM

Quote:
I can't justify having three 88s for piano work


Try harder. smile
Posted By: echo66

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/20/18 11:15 AM

Just pre-ordered a MODX8 from Kraft music. $1,949 with the carry bag kit.

Now I can keep my Montage 8 in my basement studio.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/20/18 11:43 AM

Originally Posted By: Kalin
Making preset changes, edits, etc counting mainly on the touchscreen feels a bit uncomfortable to me. According to Blake Angelo, it's the same Montage screen...on the other hand, watching this BoBeats demo, one could see its not so perfect

True, touchscreen is still a bit of a double-edge sword (ask a Kronos owner). I have not used Montage, and I'm really curious to try the MODX screen.
Posted By: echo66

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/20/18 12:00 PM

On the Montage, I don't use the buttons on the right that often - mainly the touch screen for changing sounds.

The thing that I will miss is the 8 sliders (and lights) esp. for organ - but will program the 4 knobs and sliders and assignable switches and scenes should be able to do the same functions.
Posted By: davedoerfler

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/20/18 12:12 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Extensive conversation about reasons for external PSUs, modifying boards to not need them, safely attaching them to boards, etc. at http://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2882741/


thanks for resurrecting that thread, Scott.
Posted By: KorgyPorky

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/20/18 12:16 PM

Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Heck at 30lbs 7oz thank goodness for the 8, even with the GHS.
Either the 7 (16lbs 5oz) or 8 is quite capable for a one keyboard gig.


With the nwx keybed, it would have been atleast 15 lbs heavier..
Just look at the weight of the p515..
Posted By: KorgyPorky

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/20/18 12:19 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: Kalin
Making preset changes, edits, etc counting mainly on the touchscreen feels a bit uncomfortable to me. According to Blake Angelo, it's the same Montage screen...on the other hand, watching this BoBeats demo, one could see its not so perfect

True, touchscreen is still a bit of a double-edge sword (ask a Kronos owner). I have not used Montage, and I'm really curious to try the MODX screen.


He montage screen icons are allready bigger then most of the kronos interface..
Altough a 9Ē touchscreen for this interface would hae been perfect..

From my experience, indare say that many of my irritators with the kronos touchscrean donít excist on monage, and so will not excist on moxd
Posted By: KorgyPorky

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/20/18 12:23 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Extensive conversation about reasons for external PSUs, modifying boards to not need them, safely attaching them to boards, etc. at http://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2882741/


Here is 2 reasons for using an extrnal supply..(pov yamaha developmen)
-weight
-costprice

What would really help, if the device/modx could be either battery or usb powered...
Posted By: KorgyPorky

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/20/18 12:31 PM

Originally Posted By: echo66
On the Montage, I don't use the buttons on the right that often - mainly the touch screen for changing sounds.

The thing that I will miss is the 8 sliders (and lights) esp. for organ - but will program the 4 knobs and sliders and assignable switches and scenes should be able to do the same functions.


Every time i look at my montage sliders, i miss the 9th one..

But the lights around sliders and the knobs are invalluable..

The buttons to the right, i started using more and more
I am heavilly into arps..
And so i started using them more and more..
And now with the daw controll in patch 2.5.. those buttons are hugely usefull

If they ever bring back song and espescially patern mode in the next model genos, those buttons will be even more usefull 16 tracks and 16npatterns make a great ableton live type of use possible..

Yamaha tough should make those buttons more usefull..
Like a mode that allows you to program the butons with your own shortcuts..
Posted By: cgrafx

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/20/18 01:26 PM

Originally Posted By: DanL

You have to "carry around" a power cord for the keyboard with an internal supply right? Not much different. Many of us "gigging musicians" don't see a problem. There are a lot of pro pieces of gear that use external power supplies.


Lose or damage your external supply before a gig and your SOL.

Barrel plugs are non-universal and non-standard. There are 20+ variations of the plug end (both size and polarity). Its not like you can just pick up a replacement power supply in your local hardware store.

Lose your IEC cable and you can pretty much find a replacement cable anywhere. Just about Every computer, monitor, TV, cash registers, etc. etc, that uses a removable plug has one (meaning it can be borrowed if needed).
Posted By: Legatoboy

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/20/18 01:30 PM

I'm passing on this one..I like the AP piano sound a alot because I play it (well the Montage 88) almost every week at the GC near work for 10-15 min., but honestly I don't need any of those other things is does or the DX sounds and the Knob..and I love knobs just as much as the next guy. I know it's good sounding and all....but for some reason I'm kinda 'Meh' about the Montages and MODX...Nice Ax's for sure though!
Posted By: Adan

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/20/18 01:45 PM

Seems like the 61/76 is 85% of a Montage or Kronos at less than half the weight. That's pretty attractive.

Organs don't sound bad, not a clonewheel obviously but very useable if it's not a organ-centered gig. Leslie tremolo is usually a glaring weak spot on a keyboard like this, and that's true for this one.

I dislike wall warts as much as the next guy, but when it's part of a package that's half the weight and price, I'll make that tradeoff. Spending $30 for an extra one is not a big deal.
Posted By: Aidan

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/20/18 01:58 PM

Originally Posted By: cgrafx
Lose or damage your external supply before a gig and your SOL.


Which is why, as I suggested before, you need to buy a spare from the get go, put it in your spares bag and _religiously_ always make sure you have that bag with you. My spares bag always contains at least one of the following: dynamic mic, DI box, quarter inch jack, IEC cable, XLR cable, XLR-jack adapters, sustain pedal or switch, expression pedal, plus a few other bits. Not exactly exciting, but a vital part of any pro's armoury.
Posted By: Aidan

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/20/18 02:06 PM

Originally Posted By: echo66
Just pre-ordered a MODX8 from Kraft music. $1,949 with the carry bag kit.


A verdict on the case would be interesting. At first glance, it looks a bit like the (terrible) one they came up with for the CP4/MOXF8 but actually it appears they have moved the wheels to the absolute corners. The others were inset slightly which made the case highly unstable and apt to flip while being pulled.

I'm assuming the MODX8 will fit the far superior Soundwear bag I bought from Thomann for my CP4 and as they won't be going out together, I shall probably just use that but others might welcome a report, particularly those outside Europe.
Posted By: zephonic

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/20/18 02:15 PM

Originally Posted By: Aidan
My MODX8 should arrive tomorrow. Will update you all then.


Wow, so soon? Out here you can preorder them, but Sweetwater says deliveries start on the 27th.
Posted By: FJR

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/20/18 02:18 PM

Originally Posted By: Aidan
Originally Posted By: echo66
Just pre-ordered a MODX8 from Kraft music. $1,949 with the carry bag kit.


A verdict on the case would be interesting. At first glance, it looks a bit like the (terrible) one they came up with for the CP4/MOXF8 but actually it appears they have moved the wheels to the absolute corners. The others were inset slightly which made the case highly unstable and apt to flip while being pulled.

I'm assuming the MODX8 will fit the far superior Soundwear bag I bought from Thomann for my CP4 and as they won't be going out together, I shall probably just use that but others might welcome a report, particularly those outside Europe.


I got the free bag with the CP4. Besides the quality I really dislike where the handle is located. It makes it awkward to pull it around tight corners (tipsy).

I would be very interested in how the 8 fits in your soundwear bag!

Ordered my 8, this morning!
Posted By: echo66

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/20/18 03:08 PM

Yeah, I do think it looks like a nicer bag (and more expensive) than the MOXF8 bag, but I will see. I figure an extra $50 is likely worth it since every case I have is larger. Also, buying the case after the fact would be $249.
Posted By: echo66

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/20/18 03:11 PM

For organs I use modified ksounds organimation samples in my Montage which I find nicer than the stock organs. It's no clonewheel but sounds as good or better than my Kronos for organs.
Posted By: GovernorSilver

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/20/18 04:06 PM

Originally Posted By: echo66
For organs I use modified ksounds organimation samples in my Montage which I find nicer than the stock organs. It's no clonewheel but sounds as good or better than my Kronos for organs.


Interesting that Organimation might actually sound better than the CX3 modeling engine.

Can't wait to meet up w/ the local musos at Chucks to check out the MODX.
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/20/18 04:29 PM

Originally Posted By: echo66
For organs I use modified ksounds organimation samples in my Montage which I find nicer than the stock organs. It's no clonewheel but sounds as good or better than my Kronos for organs.


Easy Sounds has two B3 libraries for Montage (now MODX): Organ Session and Live Organ. have you (or anyone?) had experience with these, able to compare to Ksound?
Posted By: Dreamchilde

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/20/18 04:36 PM

Posted By: GovernorSilver

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/20/18 04:55 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott

True, touchscreen is still a bit of a double-edge sword (ask a Kronos owner). I have not used Montage, and I'm really curious to try the MODX screen.


I'm also curious about the MODX touchscreen, though my concern is more over the durability.

I'm a Korg M3 owner, and it touchscreen is known for being on the delicate side.
Posted By: echo66

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/20/18 05:02 PM

Yes, I should qualify that I've tweaked the eq-ing, controls and leslie speeds to my taste. And I am mostly mixing in with the band with occasional organ solos. The Kronos does have better controls. The Montage drawbars work backwards and they are 8. It's kind of a mind-** at first but I got used to it.

I do occasionally bring my leslie/kronos combo to bigger gigs, and neither keyboard alone even comes close to that.
Posted By: Aidan

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/20/18 06:05 PM

Originally Posted By: zephonic
Originally Posted By: Aidan
My MODX8 should arrive tomorrow. Will update you all then.


Wow, so soon? Out here you can preorder them, but Sweetwater says deliveries start on the 27th.


Yup, had the UPS track come through this afternoon.
Posted By: Bobby Simons

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/20/18 06:22 PM

Originally Posted By: Dreamchilde

That sounded much better than I expected. The overdrive was a bit cottony, but that might be quibbling. And Kamil has some skills, I liked those opening changes.
Posted By: ElmerJFudd

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/20/18 06:37 PM

The YC and Montage are a step up for Yamaha with regard to the organ patches. With the Motif and derived models like the S90xx they really needed the attention of someone sensitive to the instrument and what players expect to step in, like Ksounds for example. BTW they have done programming for the Montage as well: https://ksounds.com/product/organimation-tonewheel-organ-sounds-yamaha-montage/



But generally speaking the Montageís samples and fx (the Leslie simulation in particular) are more capable. The best Yamaha has to offer in this regard is on the Genos.






But for a ďperformance synthĒ/workstation do it all type board this is an improvement. No, itís still not a dedicated clone wheel replacement. And the MODX is lacking the faders organ players would want. But for presets. Not too shabby.
Posted By: KeyMoe

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/20/18 09:34 PM

Originally Posted By: Aidan
My MODX8 should arrive tomorrow. Will update you all then.


Ordered mine today!!!! MODX-8. Not sure on the delivery date yet....
Posted By: High Diving Act

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/20/18 10:10 PM

Just ordered my MODX7 today.
Posted By: echo66

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/20/18 10:57 PM

I concur, the organs sound good - although they are solo organ jamming all by them self.

For me there's also organ tones that sound good in a mix. Like a few examples Bob Seger-ish, Tom Petty, Pink Floyd..etc. Sweeten/complimenting the sound in a non offensive way. Swirling the room. No-one really knows why it sounds so good - can't put you finger on it.

I would also like demos in a band context - not jamming one person - that will always sound good.

BTW the CFX sounds really good in a mix. Cheers.
Posted By: ap297

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/21/18 11:39 AM

Am looking for a lightweight 88 key instrument - the inevitable question:for organs, MODX or SP6?
Posted By: ElmerJFudd

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/21/18 11:48 AM

Or for the 76k synth actions fellows - is Artis7 still the better do it all for the money? But itís not as FM synthy if thatís what youíre hot for.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/21/18 05:05 PM

Originally Posted By: GovernorSilver
Originally Posted By: echo66
For organs I use modified ksounds organimation samples in my Montage which I find nicer than the stock organs. It's no clonewheel but sounds as good or better than my Kronos for organs.

Interesting that Organimation might actually sound better than the CX3 modeling engine.

Well, at least one person thinks so, but you can probably find one person who thinks a lot of things. ;-) Though even the MODX sounds in that Kamil Baranski video sound better to me than the stock MOXF, so if echo's tweaked organimation is even better, that sounds like it's got potential. Though there are still some inherent limitations to any rompler implementation, in terms of things like phase cancellations and polyphony.

One limitation in the past, even from a rompler perspective, is that a Yamaha sound could have a max of 8 elements, and you need more than that for independent control of 9 drawbars, key click, leakage (though leakage can also be built into drawbar samples). But someone mentioned how single sounds (i.e. CFX piano) can go beyond 8 elements by employing multiple Performance slots for a single sound. I don't know if that could provide a way around the 8 element limitation for organ, in the context of also having to feed all the elements through the same rotary effect, and most (but not percussion) through the same CV.

Originally Posted By: echo66
Yes, I should qualify that I've tweaked the eq-ing, controls and leslie speeds to my taste.

Have you tried comparable tweaking with your Kronos?

Originally Posted By: echo66
I do occasionally bring my leslie/kronos combo to bigger gigs, and neither keyboard alone even comes close to that.

Maybe you should try Kronos (or Montage) with organ-->assignable out-->Vent...?

Originally Posted By: ap297
Am looking for a lightweight 88 key instrument - the inevitable question:for organs, MODX or SP6?

My inclination for that would be SP6, based on the tech alone. The MODX doesn't have anything really like the SP6 organ emulation engine, but rather some clever workarounds and compromises. But obviously some are getting good results regardless. And as I mentioned, I loved the organ sound in my old S30. And sometimes "one sound" is all you need. I'm really curious to try the Montage organs for myself. I don't have the SP6, but I think the organ in the Artis7 is pretty nice, even if not top tier clonewheel quality.

Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Or for the 76k synth actions fellows - is Artis7 still the better do it all for the money?

I think this does put the squeeze on the Artis7. The Kurz still has the advantages of a true clonewheel engine with 9-drawbar control (including going the right direction), and a real VA engine, and I'll be curious to see how the actions compare, particularly if you must also play piano from the board. I also want to compare the general operational ergonomics for on-the-fly control of splits/layers, MIDI functionality, controller definitions, etc. But the MODX has an awful lot over the Kurz... wave size, display, FM synth, custom sample loading, etc.
Posted By: ElmerJFudd

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/21/18 07:15 PM

I was just watching the Ksounds Oganismo patches for Montage. Theyíve made use of the infamous ďknobĒ as an organ registration switcher/morpher. Interesting idea for working out settings you use in the same patch and song and morphing quickly or slowly between them. Particularly on the MODX where youíre relegated to 4 faders. Should be possible for Ksounds to bring it over fairly easily.

I hope Kurzweil considers updating the Artis7 with some Forte flavor.
Posted By: Aidan

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/21/18 08:28 PM

Originally Posted By: ap297
Am looking for a lightweight 88 key instrument - the inevitable question:for organs, MODX or SP6?


It's an apples to oranges comparison. The SP6 is mainly a digital piano with some additional sounds, and limited editing (at least on board the instrument). The Yamaha is a full blown rompler + synth with very deep editing available on board. Personally, I don't think either of them are that good, organ-wise. The MODX appears to be a slight improvement on its predecessors but Yamaha organ emulations have always been a bit meh. However, I've never been that convinced by the Kurzweil's much-vaunted KB3 engine.

For my own part, I have a cunning plan to use Mainstage with the MODX so I can use Acoustic Samples B5 for my organ needs.
Posted By: echo66

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/21/18 11:54 PM

Cool thanks. Some great ideas to try out and will check it out. Some potential here, thanks. Cheers.
Posted By: ElmerJFudd

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/22/18 12:34 PM

Originally Posted By: Aidan
Originally Posted By: ap297
Am looking for a lightweight 88 key instrument - the inevitable question:for organs, MODX or SP6?


It's an apples to oranges comparison. The SP6 is mainly a digital piano with some additional sounds, and limited editing (at least on board the instrument). The Yamaha is a full blown rompler + synth with very deep editing available on board. Personally, I don't think either of them are that good, organ-wise. The MODX appears to be a slight improvement on its predecessors but Yamaha organ emulations have always been a bit meh. However, I've never been that convinced by the Kurzweil's much-vaunted KB3 engine.

For my own part, I have a cunning plan to use Mainstage with the MODX so I can use Acoustic Samples B5 for my organ needs.


Do your gigs work better with B5 presets or do you like having all drawbars live? The 4 on the MODX is a little yesteryear. I mean you can get 8 faders and much more on a controller if youíre bringing a MacBook and MainStage anyway.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/22/18 12:59 PM

Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Originally Posted By: Aidan
For my own part, I have a cunning plan to use Mainstage with the MODX so I can use Acoustic Samples B5 for my organ needs.


Do your gigs work better with B5 presets or do you like having all drawbars live? The 4 on the MODX is a little yesteryear. I mean you can get 8 faders and much more on a controller if youíre bringing a MacBook and MainStage anyway.

The 4 MODX faders are switchable (1-4, 5-8)... if they can send different MIDI values accordingly, that could help. But sure, if you're using Mainstage, might as well use a 9-slider USB control surface. It's nice that the MODX has some panel space to use for things like that.
Posted By: KorgyPorky

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/22/18 01:04 PM

Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
I was just watching the Ksounds Oganismo patches for Montage. Theyíve made use of the infamous ďknobĒ as an organ registration switcher/morpher. Interesting idea for working out settings you use in the same patch and song and morphing quickly or slowly between them. Particularly on the MODX where youíre relegated to 4 faders. Should be possible for Ksounds to bring it over fairly easily.

I hope Kurzweil considers updating the Artis7 with some Forte flavor.


You have also 8 scenes for setting up different drawbar settings..
Sadly 4 drawbars doesnt get you far.. even the 8 on the montage is one short..

The big disadvantage of Kurzweil has allways been their interface...
Espescially when you compare it to montage/modx, which excells in this area opening it up for your creativity..

but when you finally get into it, VAST is a beast.. a timeconsuming beast tough..
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/22/18 02:33 PM

If the need is a pure clone - MODX is obviously not the optimal selection. a clone wonít / canít do the other 1000 things MODX can do. Have to either connect to a limitless bank aka MS or pick your poison. I donít do a lot of B3, just a little. 95% of time i can go with a single setting for the draw bars. Iíve managed with XF and MOXF, all reports are Montage/MODX are a bit better so for my need it will be a useful slight upgrade.

Can also assign superknob to the element volumes (sliders) but a single twist moves each of them according to pre-programmed amount - that again doesnít work for limitless bar by bar on the fly adjusting, but makes a simple approach if a song really just needs to transition from one type of setting to another. Each bar doesnít have to move the same amount, each will move (or not move) according to programmed change range. The advantage if that does work in a situation, is yo can move multiple bars with one control.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/22/18 02:37 PM

Originally Posted By: KorgyPorky
The big disadvantage of Kurzweil has allways been their interface...
Espescially when you compare it to montage/modx, which excells in this area opening it up for your creativity..

but when you finally get into it, VAST is a beast.. a timeconsuming beast tough..

OTOH, basics like patch selection, combining sounds for splits/layers, etc., really isn't bad on any of it. It's the advanced functions where things can get rough, but most people don't do those things anyway. Though I guess you could say, if those things were simpler, maybe more people would do them. ;-) The SP6 being talked about looks pretty straight-forward... but in that case, they took a lot of the advanced functions out anyway.
Posted By: GovernorSilver

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/22/18 03:45 PM

Been doing a little bit of Googling for integrating a Seaboard to get around lack of aftertouch. I presume if this guy got his Seaboard working with his Montage, it should be possible on the MODX.

https://www.yamahasynth.com/ask-a-question/mpe-specification-release-and-montage
Posted By: echo66

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/22/18 04:48 PM

I have a about 5 presets perf's on the Montage but mostly I use the 5th slider to control the 5/6 drawbars, or the 8th slider controlling 8/9 drawbars. Assignable switch 1 for vib/chorus. All default to 808000000 when 1st selected. Scenes for percussion.

For the MODX I will likely use the same setup, substituting 1st first 4 sliders to the assignable dials. No lights on the dials and sliders will be big adjustment.

Not ideal but a workable compromise for me.
Posted By: Aidan

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/23/18 12:19 AM



A few initial thoughts:

* It's really light Ė although the added depth means it's in some ways maybe a little more awkward to handle than my CP4. But absolutely no complaints about the weight. The construction is plastic, of course, but it doesn't feel or look overly cheap. With a bit of care, I wouldn't have any worries about the unit's long-term durability.

* The keybed is pretty good. Don't get all excited on me, it's a long stretch from a CP4. But it's a lot better than the MOXF8, my last encounter with a comparable instrument in the Yamaha range. The MOXF's keybed felt light and had an odd half-escapement feel to it. The MODX is smooth and more pianistic, maybe a bit sluggish if we're being picky. But remember the price and weight for this amount of synthesiser, and it's perfectly acceptable. Expressive piano playing is no problem.

* I was pleasantly surprised by the touchscreen. For a capacitive specimen, it's very responsive and so far I've not had to have a 'second stab' at anything on the screen.

* The rest of the hardware on the board is perfectly OK for the budget. Knobs are tight, scroll wheel solid etc.

* I wish Yamaha would have screen printed the connection points on the top panel, particularly as all the rear sockets are underneath a kind of 'lip' in the case. Makes wiring it up a bit of a pain. But can't complain about the connectivity Ė lots of options.

* Yes, the PSU is external and it's not the best quality by any stretch. It's a wall wart rather than a mid-cable lump. I seem to remember that when I had the CP33, I was able to buy a rather better quality spare Yamaha PSU which was a power brick type. I'm going to investigate whether something similar is available for the MODX and use that as my main PSU, if so.

* Boot-up time is less than 20 secs. No need to consider a UPS, a la Kronos.

* The user interface is typical Yamaha. At some point, you will need to read the manual, and probably sooner than later. As an example, I was constantly hitting the 'edit' button while browsing the sounds in 'category search' (a feature which, to be fair, is much improved by the touch interface) but nothing happened. I subsequently found out that you need to 'enter' a sound (which brings up a display of its parts) and only THEN can you hit edit. Similarly, it took me quite some time to figure out how you edit the reverb type. It's actually on a tab once you're IN that edit mode. Once you know where it is, no problem Ė but it's far from intuitive.

* The CFX piano is fine but needs playing quite firmly to bring out that characteristic Yamaha brightness in its character. I found that changing the velocity curve (another big interface search!) to 'wide' was best for me. I haven't downloaded the free Bosendorfer yet but plan to do so.

* EPs are great, and the Scenes feature and AF buttons are used to logical and good effect, as is the mod wheel for tremelo etc. Very good variety of Rhodes (although the Dyno models need pulling right back, for my tastes) and the Wurlis are much better than the CP4, I'd say. As you'd expect, Yamaha push the FM pianos big time in the category search but at least you've got plenty of options.

* Hammonds are serviceable for comping and the odd emergency solo Ė a definite improvement on the Motif/MOXF sounds for sure. If you're going to concentrate a lot on these sounds, though, you're still gonna want a clonewheel on top. The user interface means you're realistically going to be sticking to the presets, though I did like the way the Super Knob is used in many patches to gradually 'open up' the top drawbars. That at least is a common way many of us work settings in the heat of battle and it's helpful to have it available using a single control.

* FM sounds are everywhere you look. I was never a big fan but there is lots of useable stuff, and much of it belies the reputation FM had for being brittle and thin. For example, there's a monster thick bass sound in there which would sit perfectly in Stevie Wonder's Boogie On Reggae Woman.

* Acoustic/orchestral sounds are very good, as always. The newer samples raise an already high bar. And it was great to have all my favourite sounds from the Motif days right there as well. Basically, whatever your sonic needs, you're going to find a solution here. It may not always be 'best in class' but this is a true Swiss army knife instrument. Also, the built-in audio interface (and independent volume control for it) makes this an ideal foundation for a laptop rig, so anything you want to get picky about, sonically speaking, can always be 'upgraded' with software instruments. On the 8, there's even a handy place to put your laptop!

* Having the 'add rhythm' button is handy but the drum track itself is far too loud on every occasion. This was the case on Kronos as well Ė why do manufacturers do this? Of course, they can be adjusted (although again, it took me a few minutes to work out exactly how!) but why not balance them properly before you send the box out of the factory, guys? Not sure I will use them anyway, having said that.

* Lots of whizz-bang style patches using the Super Knob. Fun but of limited use, at least for those of us of a certain age. But the Super Knob itself does open up lots of more subtle and practical possibilities.

That's it for now. I hope some of this is helpful to people considering the MODX. If anyone has specific questions not covered here, I'll do my best to respond.
Posted By: KeyMoe

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/23/18 01:16 AM

Aidan thanks for the great info. Does it have the full Motif XF sound set?
Posted By: nursers

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/23/18 03:50 AM

Aidan thanks for the great review thu thu - am even more excited now.
Posted By: Aidan

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/23/18 04:20 AM

Originally Posted By: KeyMoe
Aidan thanks for the great info. Does it have the full Motif XF sound set?


As far as I can tell, yes. I looked for a few old favourites from when I had a MOXF6 and they were all present and correct.
Posted By: konaboy

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/23/18 06:23 AM

great review Aidan and congrats on your new synth!
Posted By: stoken6

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/23/18 09:25 AM

Yes, nice review Aidan.

FWIW, this month's Sound On Sound mentions that the MODX8 has a "THS" action. Typo for GHS? Who can tell...

Another recent Yamaha hammer board, the P125, had a superior-to-MOXF8 action in my opinion when I tested it recently. I wonder if they've simply improved the GHS and kept the name?

Cheers, Mike.
Posted By: Swithin

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/23/18 10:20 AM

The specs on the Yamaha website say GHS - so it's probably an improved version under the same name.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/23/18 10:55 AM

First rate report, Aidan, thanks!

Originally Posted By: Aidan
* It's really light Ė although the added depth means it's in some ways maybe a little more awkward to handle than my CP4

Compared to a MOXF8, though, besides shedding some pounds, it looks like the less curved top edge may make it easier to get a grip on when carrying the short way.

Originally Posted By: Aidan
* The keybed is pretty good. Don't get all excited on me, it's a long stretch from a CP4. But it's a lot better than the MOXF8, my last encounter with a comparable instrument in the Yamaha range. The MOXF's keybed felt light and had an odd half-escapement feel to it. The MODX is smooth and more pianistic, maybe a bit sluggish if we're being picky. But remember the price and weight for this amount of synthesiser, and it's perfectly acceptable. Expressive piano playing is no problem.

This isn't the first time we've heard someone find that a given GHS board can feel better than some other GHS board. It would be interesting to know if there are actually physical differences in the design that have been made over the years, or if the difference in feel is due to other things (i.e. the chassis it is mounted to, or the way it is mounted, or the way the velocity response is programmed, whatever). I guess it's academic... if it feels better, it feels better, regardless of the reason. Since you find this to feel better than the MOXF, though, I'm curious as how you'd compare it to your PX5S.

Originally Posted By: Aidan
* I wish Yamaha would have screen printed the connection points on the top panel

Sounds like time to pull out the label maker.

Originally Posted By: Aidan
* Yes, the PSU is external and it's not the best quality by any stretch. It's a wall wart rather than a mid-cable lump.

Probably the same PSU they've been using for a while on the MOXF/MX and other boards? That's someplace they still lag Roland, Korg, and Casio. Lump in the middle is much better. Also the connection wire from the adapter to the computer seems particularly prone to getting kinked. The good news is I've never actually have one fail, but looking at that thin twisty wire wrapped around the plug, I keep expecting it to.

Originally Posted By: Aidan
* Boot-up time is less than 20 secs. No need to consider a UPS, a la Kronos.

And so much lighter! I think the Kronos bits I'd miss most are the aftertouch and clonewheel engine, maybe some of the VA. Making me think again that the Nord Stage 3 Compact and MODX8 might be about the perfect lightweight pair. The two combined still actually weigh a bit less than a Kronos 88!

Originally Posted By: Aidan
* The CFX piano is fine but needs playing quite firmly to bring out that characteristic Yamaha brightness in its character. I found that changing the velocity curve (another big interface search!) to 'wide' was best for me. I haven't downloaded the free Bosendorfer yet but plan to do so.

Yamaha had some nice freely downloadable pianos for the MOXF (to be loaded into the optional flash card)... do you happen to know, are those already in the MODX? (If not you should be able to load those in as well.) They included the S700 (S90ES) and CP1 pianos. I'd always meant to try those, but never got around to it.

Originally Posted By: Aidan
Wurlis are much better than the CP4, I'd say.

I never played the Wurli on a CP4, but it's interesting that these could be better, as this is still a strictly sampled EP, whereas they do some modeling (SCM) on the EPs on the CP4.

Originally Posted By: Aidan
* Hammonds are serviceable for comping and the odd emergency solo Ė a definite improvement on the Motif/MOXF sounds for sure.

Nice to hear some more confirmation of that as well. I've used even the MOX organs pretty often (lots of gigs where my rig was a MOX6/MOXF6 over a Casio 88), and would definitely welcome an improvement there! (Still hoping for an organ patch I like as much as the Tube Organ on the old S30/S80.) As for the MODX8 in particular, I guess you could make the case that, if you're playing a weighted 88, the utmost in organ sound may not be your priority anyway. ;-)

Originally Posted By: Aidan
* FM sounds are everywhere you look. I was never a big fan but there is lots of useable stuff, and much of it belies the reputation FM had for being brittle and thin.

I always liked the DX7, and loading in those sounds is some of what I've used the Kronos for. Hated that ever-present EP, but there were so many sounds I liked, and used extensively on original stuff at the time, there was a natural "playability" to them. I've never played a Montage and am curious to play with FMX.

Originally Posted By: Aidan
it was great to have all my favourite sounds from the Motif days right there as well.

With 5+ GB, I wonder if they may have restored the entire Motif legacy. One of the minor frustrations of the transitions from Motif to Motif ES and Motif ES-to-XS is that you'd always lose some sounds in the process. Much of the earlier stuff would be there, and what was removed was presumably replaced with something "better," but sometimes you just wanted that old sound you used to have, and while many were there, some were not. With wave space no longer at a premium, there's plenty of room to have the full sample set from all of those instruments. It would be nice if Yamaha offered a pack that restored all the "missing" Motif and Motif ES (and even earlier S30/S80) voices that never made it to the XS. (From XS on, each model has included all the Voices from the previous.)

Originally Posted By: Aidan
the built-in audio interface (and independent volume control for it) makes this an ideal foundation for a laptop rig, so anything you want to get picky about, sonically speaking, can always be 'upgraded' with software instruments. On the 8, there's even a handy place to put your laptop!

My earlier thought was that, since the wheels on the left preclude using that side of the board for other devices, I had wished they had pushed the center set of controls to the left in order to maximize the contiguous space on the right, though what was there already looked nicely very usable. But what I noticed in your pic is that there may still be sufficient free space on the left to be useful as well, and if that's the case, then the layout nicely allows you to add some peripheral gear on either side. As you say, your laptop could go on the right, but it looks like the left still might have room for something like a nanokontrol to pair with that laptop, or a Roland Boutique module. Or maybe a small tablet (iPad Mini?) for reading charts. If you have a chance to measure, I'd be curious to know, what is the height of the free space above the keys but below the transpose buttons? And what is the height and width of the free panel space in that section under the volume controls?
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/23/18 10:59 AM

Originally Posted By: stoken6
Another recent Yamaha hammer board, the P125, had a superior-to-MOXF8 action in my opinion when I tested it recently. I wonder if they've simply improved the GHS and kept the name?

Yeah, I wonder about that too, as I mentioned. Another variable is that the keys can feel different when you add the vibrations from the built-in speakers, that's something else that can make them feel more realistic. The only manufacturing difference between GHS that I'm aware of is the glossy black keys of the old ones (i.e. P85) and the matte black finish of later ones, but yeah, I'm curious as to whether they have made other changes over the years.
Posted By: Aidan

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/23/18 12:45 PM

Scott, trying to answer some of the points you raisedÖ

Iím pretty sure the GHS action is at least a modified and improved version of the one in the MOXF8 (which had a bizarre Ďclickinessí to it, almost like a badly-simulated escapement) but could equally be brand new and just branded the same as its predecessor. On balance, I would still take the PX-5S keybed Ė the keys feel slightly more natural on the downstroke, as if they have some inertia of their own, if that makes sense. But the MODX isnít an awful keybed. Itís perfectly useable.

Regarding the other pianos, there is a performance called ĎS700 for Montageí and it sounds to me exactly like the one in the ĎInspiration in a Flashí download for MOXFs. However, I donít think much more of that set is in the MODX, sadly. I seem to recall some additional Mellotron sounds, for example, which I havenít found.

As regards the Wurli, maybe itís because the modelling is a bit out. But for me, the Ďburrí element in the Wurli timbre is over-exaggerated on the CP4 and sounds slightly artificial, no matter the adjustments.

As far as the left hand space is concerned, Iíll run the tape measure over it when I get chance and let you know. Off the top of my head, I would certainly think there would be room to accommodate, say, a Korg Nanokontrol. A boutique synth? Not so sure.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/23/18 01:56 PM

Originally Posted By: Aidan
On balance, I would still take the PX-5S keybed Ė the keys feel slightly more natural on the downstroke, as if they have some inertia of their own, if that makes sense. But the MODX isnít an awful keybed. Itís perfectly useable.

You mentioned a sluggishness on the MODX8, and I'd also say that about the return on the PX5s, how would you compare them in that respect in particular?
Posted By: ElmerJFudd

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/23/18 02:10 PM

I notice the sluggishness on the RD-2000 action.
The Korg Grandstage is only just ok - nothing to write home about but perfectly useable. I would imagine itís in the same league as the GHS on the MODX.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/23/18 02:26 PM

Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
I notice the sluggishness on the RD-2000 action.

Yeah, it bothered me especially being on a high-end action, and also since Roland's earlier high-end actions (like on the FP7/FP7F) felt so much snappier. On the lower end, I thought Yamaha's GHS had a quicker return than what Roland uses on the DS88/FA08. I get why lots of people prefer the feel of those Rolands, they feel more "substantial" on the depress, but personally I'm not sure that makes up for the other.
Posted By: Dave Ferris

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/23/18 03:43 PM

Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
I notice the sluggishness on the RD-2000 action.
The Korg Grandstage is only just ok - nothing to write home about but perfectly useable. I would imagine itís in the same league as the GHS on the MODX.



In the one time I used the RD-2000, I found the sound more then the action lacking. It's always that way for me with Roland pianos.

The more I play the Grandstage- used it again this morning - the more I really dislike that keyboard.
Posted By: konaboy

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/23/18 03:44 PM

there is a Bosendorfer sample libary for the MODX, as well as the Chick Corea Rhodes plus some other goodies for free

more info
https://usa.yamaha.com/products/music_production/synthesizers/modx/sound_library.html
Posted By: stoken6

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/23/18 03:48 PM

Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
I notice the sluggishness on the RD-2000 action.
The Korg Grandstage is only just ok - nothing to write home about but perfectly useable. I would imagine itís in the same league as the GHS on the MODX.



In the one time I used it, I found the sound more then the action lacking. It's always that way for me with Roland pianos.

The more I play the Grandstage- used again this morning - the more I really dislike that keyboard.


Interesting. I was broadly negative on the RH3 action in the SV1 when I tried it (at least for AP - EP was a much better fit). But it beats the TP100 imho.

Cheers, Mike.
Posted By: gg22

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/23/18 05:54 PM

Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
I notice the sluggishness on the RD-2000 action.
The Korg Grandstage is only just ok - nothing to write home about but perfectly useable. I would imagine itís in the same league as the GHS on the MODX.



The Grandstage's RH3 is a higher end action, comparable to Yamaha GH and Fatar TL40.
Yamaha's GHS is a lower end action, noisier and with shorter pivot comparable to Casio PX5s, Roland FA08, Fatar TL100.

Out of all lower end actions, I like GHS the most.
Regardless, looks like MODX is the winner! Nothing compares to it in it's price range. I just wish they included some EP modelling from the CP4, last time I checked Montage EP's they still exhibited abrupt sample switching.
Posted By: High Diving Act

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/23/18 08:11 PM

Originally Posted By: GovernorSilver
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott

True, touchscreen is still a bit of a double-edge sword (ask a Kronos owner). I have not used Montage, and I'm really curious to try the MODX screen.


I'm also curious about the MODX touchscreen, though my concern is more over the durability.

I'm a Korg M3 owner, and it touchscreen is known for being on the delicate side.


Can't comment on the durability (yet) but I was playing the Montage and MODX side by side and what I noticed was the Montage's glass touch screen picked up reflections and glare from everything while the MODX's matt plastic screen wasn't plagued with this issue.
Posted By: ElmerJFudd

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/23/18 09:23 PM

Originally Posted By: gg22
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
I notice the sluggishness on the RD-2000 action.
The Korg Grandstage is only just ok - nothing to write home about but perfectly useable. I would imagine itís in the same league as the GHS on the MODX.



The Grandstage's RH3 is a higher end action, comparable to Yamaha GH and Fatar TL40.
Yamaha's GHS is a lower end action, noisier and with shorter pivot comparable to Casio PX5s, Roland FA08, Fatar TL100.

Out of all lower end actions, I like GHS the most.
Regardless, looks like MODX is the winner! Nothing compares to it in it's price range. I just wish they included some EP modelling from the CP4, last time I checked Montage EP's they still exhibited abrupt sample switching.


Oh I know Korg says their RH3 is a higher end action. But in playing, not really comparable to Yamahaís or Kawaiís high end actions.
Posted By: Al Coda

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/23/18 09:37 PM

Originally Posted By: gg22
... looks like MODX is the winner!


Iīd want a Yammi MODX 1HU rack !

A.C.
Posted By: ap297

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/23/18 09:58 PM

Thanks Aidan for your review. Given the MODX built in audio interface, I am thinking that using tablet/laptop running VB3 for organ sounds could work. Could the MODX buttons or sliders be used to change VB3 preset sounds, drawbars, etc. - such that the laptop could be running VB3 with its clamshell screen closed?
Posted By: burningbusch

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/23/18 10:20 PM

This is an exciting release from Yamaha. I have a MODX on order. The plan is to put together a collection of sounds along the lines of what I did with the Forte. Because of the 1GB limit, I'm working with looped versions but with the loops way down in the decay so you get the true tone and natural decay until it's nearly inaudible. Anyway, still creates a much smaller instrument.

I'm not sure what will all go into the collection. I'll review the MODX and determine where I think I can add value. Clavinets for sure. I've got some 20 instruments I've sampled over the years. Target is maybe 6-8 instruments and ~500-600MB total, reasonably priced in a single collection.

But we'll see, so no promises until I get this further along.

I'm very glad to see the high degree of compatibility between the MODX and Montage. And because at minimum 1GB is guaranteed, I have something to target. I've never bothered with Yamaha in the past because of differences between the models and the fact the storage was variable and optional.

Busch.
Posted By: sherry

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/23/18 10:23 PM

Question on the scene buttons. In a performance there are four scene buttons. Is it possible to program say three or four sounds on scene button one and a piano on scene two button, organ on scene three and three or four different synth programs on scene button four? And --- If I change buttons from say one to three while holding down the sustain pedal, will the sound sustain without cutoff of sound until I let up on the sustain pedal? Thanks. Just wondering.
Posted By: davedoerfler

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/24/18 12:57 AM

Originally Posted By: burningbusch
This is an exciting release from Yamaha. The plan is to put together a collection of sounds along the lines of what I did with the Forte.


excellent news, BB. thu
Posted By: M_G

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/24/18 03:36 AM


Wow, great news! (I guess it will work then for the Montage too...?)


Originally Posted By: burningbusch
This is an exciting release from Yamaha. I have a MODX on order. The plan is to put together a collection of sounds along the lines of what I did with the Forte. Because of the 1GB limit, I'm working with looped versions but with the loops way down in the decay so you get the true tone and natural decay until it's nearly inaudible. Anyway, still creates a much smaller instrument.

I'm not sure what will all go into the collection. I'll review the MODX and determine where I think I can add value. Clavinets for sure. I've got some 20 instruments I've sampled over the years. Target is maybe 6-8 instruments and ~500-600MB total, reasonably priced in a single collection.

But we'll see, so no promises until I get this further along.

I'm very glad to see the high degree of compatibility between the MODX and Montage. And because at minimum 1GB is guaranteed, I have something to target. I've never bothered with Yamaha in the past because of differences between the models and the fact the storage was variable and optional.

Busch.
Posted By: Aidan

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/24/18 05:48 AM

Originally Posted By: sherry
Question on the scene buttons. In a performance there are four scene buttons. Is it possible to program say three or four sounds on scene button one and a piano on scene two button, organ on scene three and three or four different synth programs on scene button four? And --- If I change buttons from say one to three while holding down the sustain pedal, will the sound sustain without cutoff of sound until I let up on the sustain pedal? Thanks. Just wondering.


I'm far enough along the learning curve to say yes to your first question. As to sound sustaining, I honestly don't know yet.
Posted By: mojkarma

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/24/18 06:15 AM

Originally Posted By: ap297
Thanks Aidan for your review. Given the MODX built in audio interface, I am thinking that using tablet/laptop running VB3 for organ sounds could work. Could the MODX buttons or sliders be used to change VB3 preset sounds, drawbars, etc. - such that the laptop could be running VB3 with its clamshell screen closed?


Honestly, if organ would be so important to me, I'd rather use a dedicated keyboard instead of fiddling around with a laptop/tablet on a modx with hammerweighted keys.

Originally Posted By: sherry
Question on the scene buttons. In a performance there are four scene buttons. Is it possible to program say three or four sounds on scene button one and a piano on scene two button, organ on scene three and three or four different synth programs on scene button four? And --- If I change buttons from say one to three while holding down the sustain pedal, will the sound sustain without cutoff of sound until I let up on the sustain pedal? Thanks. Just wondering.


I'm absolutely sure the scene buttons work in the same way as on the montage. (I'm saying that because I don't own the modx). For the scenes, one can program the status of a part in a performance as being soloed or muted.
In that way, you can change from one sound to another one but the sound will be cutoff immediately simply because the solo and mute works as on an ordinary mixer. It solos/mutes instantly.

While asking about holding the sustain pedal, here I have to say that Yamaha screwed it up in a hardly understandable way. Seamless switching doesn't work for the sustain pedal. If you play a piano sound, hold the sustain pedal and switch to another piano or e.piano sound, the sustain will be reset! You have to depress and press the sustain pedal again for the new sound but depressing will logically cutoff the previous piano sound. This is a highly unmusical implementation and I reported it over in the yamahasynth forum, but as with most big companies, they don't see a problem because "seamless switching works as intended". And it does if you hold a sound with your hands and then switch to a new sound. But those natural switches with one piano sound decaying of while a new one plays, they are impossible on the montage/modx by just switching from one performance to another one and holding the sustain pedal.
The only way to overcome this problem is to use the Alternative Switch buttons and put two pianos into a performance and program one piano as being on while the switch is inactive and the other piano part to be off. By pressing the AS button in that case the old piano will continue to sustain if you hold the sustain pedal and blend in with the new one.
Posted By: fjzingo

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/24/18 08:40 AM

Great news!!

You might wan't to consider that you can load Montage sounds into the MODX but not the other way around....there are some discussions over at yamaha synth forums on that topic.




Originally Posted By: burningbusch
This is an exciting release from Yamaha. I have a MODX on order. The plan is to put together a collection of sounds along the lines of what I did with the Forte. Because of the 1GB limit, I'm working with looped versions but with the loops way down in the decay so you get the true tone and natural decay until it's nearly inaudible. Anyway, still creates a much smaller instrument.

I'm not sure what will all go into the collection. I'll review the MODX and determine where I think I can add value. Clavinets for sure. I've got some 20 instruments I've sampled over the years. Target is maybe 6-8 instruments and ~500-600MB total, reasonably priced in a single collection.

But we'll see, so no promises until I get this further along.

I'm very glad to see the high degree of compatibility between the MODX and Montage. And because at minimum 1GB is guaranteed, I have something to target. I've never bothered with Yamaha in the past because of differences between the models and the fact the storage was variable and optional.

Busch.
Posted By: fjzingo

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/24/18 08:47 AM

Guess they need to fix the midi implementation first........

Actually been thinking of the possibility to rebuild the MODX to a module?

Originally Posted By: Al Coda
Originally Posted By: gg22
... looks like MODX is the winner!


Iīd want a Yammi MODX 1HU rack !

A.C.
Posted By: sherry

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/24/18 09:46 AM

Originally Posted By: mojkarma
Originally Posted By: ap297
Thanks Aidan for your review. Given the MODX built in audio interface, I am thinking that using tablet/laptop running VB3 for organ sounds could work. Could the MODX buttons or sliders be used to change VB3 preset sounds, drawbars, etc. - such that the laptop could be running VB3 with its clamshell screen closed?


Honestly, if organ would be so important to me, I'd rather use a dedicated keyboard instead of fiddling around with a laptop/tablet on a modx with hammerweighted keys.

Originally Posted By: sherry
Question on the scene buttons. In a performance there are four scene buttons. Is it possible to program say three or four sounds on scene button one and a piano on scene two button, organ on scene three and three or four different synth programs on scene button four? And --- If I change buttons from say one to three while holding down the sustain pedal, will the sound sustain without cutoff of sound until I let up on the sustain pedal? Thanks. Just wondering.


I'm absolutely sure the scene buttons work in the same way as on the montage. (I'm saying that because I don't own the modx). For the scenes, one can program the status of a part in a performance as being soloed or muted.
In that way, you can change from one sound to another one but the sound will be cutoff immediately simply because the solo and mute works as on an ordinary mixer. It solos/mutes instantly.

While asking about holding the sustain pedal, here I have to say that Yamaha screwed it up in a hardly understandable way. Seamless switching doesn't work for the sustain pedal. If you play a piano sound, hold the sustain pedal and switch to another piano or e.piano sound, the sustain will be reset! You have to depress and press the sustain pedal again for the new sound but depressing will logically cutoff the previous piano sound. This is a highly unmusical implementation and I reported it over in the yamahasynth forum, but as with most big companies, they don't see a problem because "seamless switching works as intended". And it does if you hold a sound with your hands and then switch to a new sound. But those natural switches with one piano sound decaying of while a new one plays, they are impossible on the montage/modx by just switching from one performance to another one and holding the sustain pedal.
The only way to overcome this problem is to use the Alternative Switch buttons and put two pianos into a performance and program one piano as being on while the switch is inactive and the other piano part to be off. By pressing the AS button in that case the old piano will continue to sustain if you hold the sustain pedal and blend in with the new one.


Thanks for the info. The seamless switching of sounds is a must have for me for live performance so I'd have to take a pass on this board. The Kronos, between SST and using the Karma Scene buttons for switching sounds works flawlessly. Thanks again.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/24/18 10:48 AM

Originally Posted By: sherry
Originally Posted By: mojkarma
Originally Posted By: sherry
In a performance there are four scene buttons. Is it possible to program say three or four sounds on scene button one and a piano on scene two button, organ on scene three and three or four different synth programs on scene button four? And --- If I change buttons from say one to three while holding down the sustain pedal, will the sound sustain without cutoff of sound until I let up on the sustain pedal?
one can program the status of a part in a performance as being soloed or muted.
In that way, you can change from one sound to another one but the sound will be cutoff immediately simply because the solo and mute works as on an ordinary mixer. It solos/mutes instantly.
Thanks for the info. The seamless switching of sounds is a must have for me for live performance so I'd have to take a pass on this board. The Kronos, between SST and using the Karma Scene buttons for switching sounds works flawlessly.

If the issue is that it does not seamlessly switch sounds within a Performance, couldn't you get around this just by taking your four Scenes and instead making them four adjacent Performances?

But I agree, SSS should work within a Performance. In live performance, I see no need for a traditional Mute/Solo mixer function that cuts off previous sounds.

Originally Posted By: mojkarma
While asking about holding the sustain pedal, here I have to say that Yamaha screwed it up in a hardly understandable way. Seamless switching doesn't work for the sustain pedal. If you play a piano sound, hold the sustain pedal and switch to another piano or e.piano sound, the sustain will be reset! You have to depress and press the sustain pedal again for the new sound but depressing will logically cutoff the previous piano sound.

If I understand correctly, what you're describing sounds more like, "seamless switching works with the sustain pedal down, but the depressed pedal will not sustain subsequently played notes until you release and again depress the sustain pedal," is that right?
Posted By: sherry

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/24/18 11:24 AM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: sherry
Originally Posted By: mojkarma
[quote=sherry]In a performance there are four scene buttons. Is it possible to program say three or four sounds on scene button one and a piano on scene two button, organ on scene three and three or four different synth programs on scene button four? And --- If I change buttons from say one to three while holding down the sustain pedal, will the sound sustain without cutoff of sound until I let up on the sustain pedal?
one can program the status of a part in a performance as being soloed or muted.
In that way, you can change from one sound to another one but the sound will be cutoff immediately simply because the solo and mute works as on an ordinary mixer. It solos/mutes instantly.
Thanks for the info. The seamless switching of sounds is a must have for me for live performance so I'd have to take a pass on this board. The Kronos, between SST and using the Karma Scene buttons for switching sounds works flawlessly.

If the issue is that it does not seamlessly switch sounds within a Performance, couldn't you get around this just by taking your four Scenes and instead making them four adjacent Performances?

But I agree, SSS should work within a Performance. In live performance, I see no need for a traditional Mute/Solo mixer function that cuts off previous sounds.

Originally Posted By: mojkarma
While asking about holding the sustain pedal, here I have to say that Yamaha screwed it up in a hardly understandable way. Seamless switching doesn't work for the sustain pedal. If you play a piano sound, hold the sustain pedal and switch to another piano or e.piano sound, the sustain will be reset! You have to depress and press the sustain pedal again for the new sound but depressing will logically cutoff the previous piano sound.

If I understand correctly, what you're describing sounds more like, "seamless switching works with the sustain pedal down, but the depressed pedal will not sustain subsequently played notes until you release and again depress the sustain pedal," is that right?
[/quote]

No. Let me explain how I do it on the Kronos. I have four scene buttons. I can assign up to 16 different programs on any scene button. Say I have scene button one I have four programs to get a huge string section, Scene button 2 I have a piano program assigned, scene button 3 I have organ assigned and scene button 4 I have a synth pad with eight programs assigned. I can play scene button 1, strings, hold down the sustain pedal, hit scene button 2 and the strings will continue to play until I lift off the pedal, all while I'm playing piano assigned to scene button 2. All of this is within a combination.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/24/18 12:07 PM

Originally Posted By: sherry
Let me explain how I do it on the Kronos. I have four scene buttons. I can assign up to 16 different programs on any scene button. Say I have scene button one I have four programs to get a huge string section, Scene button 2 I have a piano program assigned, scene button 3 I have organ assigned and scene button 4 I have a synth pad with eight programs assigned. I can play scene button 1, strings, hold down the sustain pedal, hit scene button 2 and the strings will continue to play until I lift off the pedal, all while I'm playing piano assigned to scene button 2. All of this is within a combination.

Okay, but let's say you did this instead:

Combi 1 = 4 programs for huge string section
Combi 2 = piano
Combi 3 = organ
Combi 4 = an 8-program synth pad

Play Combi 1 strings, depress sustain pedal, Hit button for Combi 2, strings will continue to play until you lift off the piano, all while you're playing the Combi 2 piano, right? So what's the difference between this and what you described?

Is the difference in whether the piano is or isn't reacting to the held sustain pedal (which I think is mojkarma's MODX/Montage concern)?

I can see one other possible difference which has not been specifically mentioned... seamless transition holds don't survive more than one patch change. So if we take your scenario and add a second sound change (say, from scene/combi 2 Piano to scene/combi 3 Organ), even if the pedal is still down, the strings you started with will finally stop playing when you do that the second Combi switch to the Organ, and I'm guessing they keep playing when you instead do a second Scene switch to the Organ since you're staying within the same Combi, yes?

Is there some other benefit to using Scene switches rather than Combi switches that I have not mentioned here?

ETA: MODX seamless sound switching only works on Performance of up to 4 parts, so I see you would not be able to have the equivalent of an 8-part synth pad, so that would be a limitation.
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/24/18 01:15 PM

Yamaha says MODX SSS will work for 4 Parts (voices). Very interested to see what exactly that means and which 4 parts seamlessly sustain post-switch - does that mean 2 parts can switch to 2 other parts? Only works on a switch from from Perf 1 to Perf 2 or can work within a single Perf 1?

I can work around any of these implementation options - Iíve been using AF1/AF2 to do seamless switching within a single Performance for a long time - it had limitations in you only assign one of the 3 options (AFoff/1/2) to any Element and you canít have an element respond to 2 of the 3 (say you want Voice 1 Elements to be active for anything other than AF1 - canít do that in XF/MOXF). so you could work around by having duplicate elements and E1 responded to AFoff, another respond to AF2).

Iím glad now that I didnít convert everything over to song mode programs as I gather those song patches canít copy/transfer over to MODX, whereas Voices and Performances will. Lucky me. Just regaining the extra octave on the 7 will reduce the amount of added switching i needed to add into programs when I switched from XF7 to MOXF6.

Smart guys here will report detiails soon, iím Sure.
Posted By: mojkarma

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/24/18 01:20 PM

The sustain problem is a nasty one when you need it. You play performance A with only piano on it, you hold the sustain pedal (=the piano is sustaining), you switch to performance B with an Elec. Piano. Now, if you keep your sustain pedal pressed while switching, the Elec. Piano will not sound sustained because the sustain CC was reset while switching to performance B. So, if you want the Elec. Piano to sound sustained, you have to depress and press the sustain pedal after the change to performance B. But this will cut off the first piano sound of course because you depressed the sust. pedal.
It's maybe not often you are in this situation, but when you are, it is quite annoying. My former keyboards with seamless switching didn't reset the sustain pedal. On a Kurzweil you can seamlessly blend from one piano sound to another one while keeping the sustain pedal pressed. I believe my Fantom G worked in the same way and I'm sure the Kronos also works this way.

Regarding the scenes on Montage/Modx:
I agree, the way how they solo/mute is not what a live performing musician wants. But one shouldn't compare it to the karma scenes on the Kronos because their functions are completely different. Seamless switching with karma scene buttons is/was actually a workaround very useful on the Korg M3 because it didn't have the seamless switching function. On the Kronos there are other ways to switch between sounds and using the karma scene buttons is not necessary, in the same way the Montage/Modx offers other ways and I wouldn't decide whether to buy or not to buy a keyboard based on the fact that it has some scene buttons which can't be used for seamless switching.
As I already said, one can use four performances and put them into the same row, one next to the other in the liveset mode and seamlessly switch between the sounds. With the before mentioned exception of the piano sound while holding the sust. pedal down during the switch procedure.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/24/18 02:07 PM

Originally Posted By: mojkarma
The sustain problem is a nasty one when you need it. You play performance A with only piano on it, you hold the sustain pedal (=the piano is sustaining), you switch to performance B with an Elec. Piano. Now, if you keep your sustain pedal pressed while switching, the Elec. Piano will not sound sustained because the sustain CC was reset while switching to performance B. So, if you want the Elec. Piano to sound sustained, you have to depress release and press the sustain pedal after the change to performance B. But this will cut off the first piano sound of course because you depressed released the sust. pedal.

I see (and fixed the terminology). To my mind, it's working exactly the way I'd want it to work, and it would be bad if they changed it to the way you want! So maybe there should be an option to choose the behavior you want, but I would not want to be stuck with the new patches universally "inheriting" the position of the sustain pedal.

If I'm sustaining a sound from my previous patch via pedal, it likely to be because I want to play over that held sound with some other sound. If all the new notes started sustaining, I could quickly have mud. I guess it could be something that could be enabled on a patch-by-patch basis. Meanwhile, probably the best solution for what you want is to use two keyboards, each with their own sustain pedals, then you can always get whichever effect you want, whenever you want it. One more reason to use more than one board! ;-)

ETA: You said earlier...
Quote:
The only way to overcome this problem is to use the Alternative Switch buttons and put two pianos into a performance and program one piano as being on while the switch is inactive and the other piano part to be off. By pressing the AS button in that case the old piano will continue to sustain if you hold the sustain pedal and blend in with the new one.
So it sounds like the board already gives you two approaches, you can set up the sounds the way you want them to work, or the way I want them to work. So is there really a problem here?
Posted By: Dreamchilde

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/24/18 02:43 PM

My Guitar Center apparently has these in stock but won't put one on the floor until official release date. Do we have a street date for this yet?
Posted By: mojkarma

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/24/18 03:03 PM

AnotherScott,
it seems you don't really understand the problem. It is not that I want to hold the pedal forever and until it creates a complete mess.
Changing from one piano type sound to another one while holding the sust. pedal creates a natural crossfade between two sustaining sounds. As a musician you release and press (again) the sustain pedal as your chord progression moves.
If it's still unclear to you, I could create an audio file and give you an idea how it sounds with the interruption.

Quote:
To my mind, it's working exactly the way I'd want it to work, and it would be bad if they changed it to the way you want!


Your way is always possible. You simply release the sust. pedal and press it again. BTW, do you have a keyboard with seamless switching? How does it work when you hold the sust. pedal. It seems that all other keyboards work the way you don't want them to work.

Quote:
So it sounds like the board already gives you two approaches, you can set up the sounds the way you want them to work, or the way I want them to work. So is there really a problem here?


The other approach is possible only within the same performance. It means you mute/unmute two parts of a performance by setting their status to the opposite value and set the change to be controlled by the SW switches. So, yes, there is a solution, but just if you have room for two different setups within the same performance. Changing from one performance to another one means you can switch from one 8 part performance to another one with 8 part. Doing it inside the same performance is therefor much more restricting.
Posted By: Kalin

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/24/18 03:25 PM

For those interested in keybeds of MODX 6 and MODX 7 - these are absolutely identical as the Yamaha presenter Dom Sigalas just confirmed.
Posted By: zephonic

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/24/18 03:28 PM

Originally Posted By: Dreamchilde
My Guitar Center apparently has these in stock but won't put one on the floor until official release date. Do we have a street date for this yet?


The GC on Artesia? Release date is 9/27.
Posted By: Dreamchilde

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/24/18 03:31 PM

Originally Posted By: zephonic
Originally Posted By: Dreamchilde
My Guitar Center apparently has these in stock but won't put one on the floor until official release date. Do we have a street date for this yet?


The GC on Artesia? Release date is 9/27.


Thank you, brother.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/24/18 03:56 PM

Originally Posted By: mojkarma
AnotherScott,
it seems you don't really understand the problem. It is not that I want to hold the pedal forever and until it creates a complete mess.

I understand that. My point was that having it work your way prevents it from working the way I want it to without creating a complete mess.

Originally Posted By: mojkarma
Your way is always possible. You simply release the sust. pedal and press it again.

That wouldn't work at all! Example: Hold a string note with sustain pedal. Switch to new sound, string note keeps playing. Solo with your new sound over the drone. If you "simply release the sust. pedal and press it again" the string drone will stop!

Originally Posted By: mojkarma
BTW, do you have a keyboard with seamless switching? How does it work when you hold the sust. pedal. It seems that all other keyboards work the way you don't want them to work.

Good question, it's been a while, I'd have to check! I know I do it with holding the note down with a finger and keeping the note held down through the patch change (which would work on the Yamaha too), I'd have to think about when/whether I'd done it with a pedal, and on which board(s).

The thing about changing from one piano sound to another is, to me, the only place it makes sense to change sounds would be at the beginning of a new phrase (not in the middle of one). And you know what else you usually do at the beginning of a new phrase? You re-pedal. So for me, this isn't something I could see coming up very much. But besides the 2-pianos-in-one-performance solution, if you're not transitioning from one big 2-handed thing to another, picking up from what I talked about doing above, you could also manually hold the one chord from the first sound through the change and continue to hold it as you begin to play the new part with the second sound.

Considering how weak Yamaha has been with seamless transitions in the past, I'm at least glad to see this big step forward. But nothing is perfect. Montage/MODX, Kronos, Nord Stage 3 all only let you hold a sound though one subsequent transition. I've had boards in the past that didn't have that limitation (Roland, Kurzweil, Casio I think), and that's something I did make use of. So yeah, it's not working exactly how either of us wants, but it's still a whole lot better than before!
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/24/18 04:36 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: benj2017
So my two general complaints/concerns about this keyboard are the lack of bank/voice buttons

I used the bank/voice buttons a lot to select different RH sounds on the fly while playing LH bass. (I'd play while in Edit mode for this to work.) I thought lack of comparable functionality might be a dealbreaker for me on the MODX, but now with the Seamless Sound Switching, I think I could do the same thing a different way.

I was thinking that I could do quick LHB transitions by programming in, for example, a Bass+Piano Performance and a Bass+Organ Performance (and about 15 more) and seamlessly switch between them even mid-beat as needed without the LH bass glitching, but I read elsewhere that Performance switches can have a slight delay to them, can anyone with a MODX or Montage speak to whether this might be an issue?

If these transitions are not close enough to instantaneous, I might have to try to resort to my MOX/MOXF method of leaving the patch in Edit mode, and picking different RH sounds from a User Category on the fly. Since there are no hard buttons for this, is this something that would be easily done from the screen?
Posted By: mojkarma

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/24/18 04:41 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott

That wouldn't work at all! Example: Hold a string note with sustain pedal. Switch to new sound, string note keeps playing. Solo with your new sound over the drone. If you "simply release the sust. pedal and press it again" the string drone will stop!


Ok. Again.
I'm talking about the situation where you play a piano patch and switch to another piano patch.
That's the important part. I'll try to make a record tomorrow and demonstrate how it works on the Montage and how I think it should work (by using the workaround with the Sw button.)
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/24/18 04:53 PM

Originally Posted By: mojkarma
Ok. Again.
I'm talking about the situation where you play a piano patch and switch to another piano patch.

I understand that. My point is, if you globally change the system so that you can sustain your first piano while also sustaining your subsequent second piano sound, you've now broken the feature for my example of sustaining a string note while playing a subsequent UNsustained sound. The Yamaha SSS feature does not know the difference between a piano patch and a string patch or some other patch. What it does for one, it will do for the others.

I suppose you could program a sound to ignore the sustain pedal completely so that you'd be able to use that sound to do a solo over a drone even if the feature worked the way you want, but then you completely lose the ability to use the sustain pedal on that sound, and that isn't good either. e.g. What if you want to sustain the last note of your solo while switching to the sound that will come next?
Posted By: sherry

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/24/18 05:20 PM

Ok. Just my observation with regard to SST or Patch-hold, whatever you want to call it. Personally, I don't like using the touchscreen for changing sounds, because unless you hit it exactly right, you may change to wrong sound. I find using the buttons far more accurate that touch screen. Just my observation.. What I REALLY like about Karma Scene buttons for SST, I can change sounds up to four times without a cutoff of sound using sustain pedal. I can have splits and change to another multi w/o cutting off sound. Also, I can layer sounds using the Scene buttons. Such as, Strings on button one, hit button 2 and piano sounds w/o cutoff of sound. also I can layer the piano and strings by hitting button below scene buttons, and still have organ on scene 3 and synth on scene 4. Hope this makes sense. Thank.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/24/18 05:32 PM

Yes, I definitely see advantages to holding a sound through more than one transition, and for having hard buttons to switch, etc. Those weren't things mentioned earlier which is why I was unclear as to where the MODX fell down compared to Kronos, but... yep. Though personally, I'm still unclear about exactly what you can and can't do with MODX scenes. But the Kronos comparison is kind of moot in my case, because I'm only looking at the MODX 76 and 88, and I don't want the weight of the Kronos 73 or 88. I'd love to see Kronos-based models getting more weight/size competitive with the MODX.
Posted By: mojkarma

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/24/18 05:56 PM

Ok. I made two recordings here with my Montage, using the same two performances. The first one is a Piano, the second one is one of the new RD E. Pianos. I recorded audio, on the very first try, more or less the same phrase (excuse my imperfections on this short demonstration).

In my first example, I played a phrase with a piano patch, holded the sustain pedal at the end of the phrase, switched to the e. piano by selecting the new performance on the Montage (manually) while the sust. pedal was held and kept on playing with the newly selected e. piano patch. You can hear how the e. piano sound is not sustained and it doesn't really sound right.

https://soundcloud.com/user-995680819/piano-seamless-montage-way

In my second example, I combined the piano patch and the e. piano patch into one performance and switched between the sound with the SW1 button on the Montage (its name is AF1 on the Montage). Here you will here how the piano keeps on sounding while I play the e. piano and how the e. piano is also sustained from the still pressed sust. pedal. I think this is the desired way to crossfade one piano sound seamlessly into another piano sound. This is also how - to my knowledge - all other keyboards function with seamless switching. (And remember, you can always release the sust. pedal before it gets muddy and press it again for sustaining notes).

https://soundcloud.com/user-995680819/piano-seamless-the-right-way
Posted By: benj2017

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/24/18 06:03 PM

Originally Posted By: mojkarma
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott

That wouldn't work at all! Example: Hold a string note with sustain pedal. Switch to new sound, string note keeps playing. Solo with your new sound over the drone. If you "simply release the sust. pedal and press it again" the string drone will stop!


Ok. Again.
I'm talking about the situation where you play a piano patch and switch to another piano patch.
That's the important part. I'll try to make a record tomorrow and demonstrate how it works on the Montage and how I think it should work (by using the workaround with the Sw button.)


Ok, personally I think this is splitting hairs and I agree with AnotherScott, the way you want to do it screws over anyone who wants a Synth/String/Pad drone, although personally I wouldn't do it this way. If this is going to be a thing then it should be a System level option that can be selected by the user(sustain carry or something)

Originally Posted By: sherry
Ok. Just my observation with regard to SST or Patch-hold, whatever you want to call it. Personally, I don't like using the touchscreen for changing sounds, because unless you hit it exactly right, you may change to wrong sound. I find using the buttons far more accurate that touch screen. Just my observation.. What I REALLY like about Karma Scene buttons for SST, I can change sounds up to four times without a cutoff of sound using sustain pedal. I can have splits and change to another multi w/o cutting off sound. Also, I can layer sounds using the Scene buttons. Such as, Strings on button one, hit button 2 and piano sounds w/o cutoff of sound. also I can layer the piano and strings by hitting button below scene buttons, and still have organ on scene 3 and synth on scene 4. Hope this makes sense. Thank.


I see where you are coming from with this, however Phil C on the yamaha site makes a good point that they are ways to do this on the Yamaha, just not with their version of the Scene button which is not the same as the Kronos's.

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Yes, I definitely see advantages to holding a sound through more than one transition, and for having hard buttons to switch, etc. Those weren't things mentioned earlier which is why I was unclear as to where the MODX fell down compared to Kronos, but... yep. Though personally, I'm still unclear about exactly what you can and can't do with MODX scenes. But the Kronos comparison is kind of moot in my case, because I'm only looking at the MODX 76 and 88, and I don't want the weight of the Kronos 73 or 88. I'd love to see Kronos models getting more weight/size competitive with the MODX.


I don't think this is a productive criticism, the Kronos and MODX are at different tiers of their product lines. Makes more sense to compare the weight of the Montage and the Kronos. The MODX costs less than half of the Kronos and has considerably less in the way of functionality.
Posted By: benj2017

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/24/18 06:04 PM

Originally Posted By: mojkarma
Ok. I made two recordings here with my Montage, using the same two performances. The first one is a Piano, the second one is one of the new RD E. Pianos. I recorded audio, on the very first try, more or less the same phrase (excuse my imperfections on this short demonstration).

In my first example, I played a phrase with a piano patch, holded the sustain pedal at the end of the phrase, switched to the e. piano by selecting the new performance on the Montage (manually) while the sust. pedal was held and kept on playing with the newly selected e. piano patch. You can hear how the e. piano sound is not sustained and it doesn't really sound right.

https://soundcloud.com/user-995680819/piano-seamless-montage-way

In my second example, I combined the piano patch and the e. piano patch into one performance and switched between the sound with the SW1 button on the Montage (its name is AF1 on the Montage). Here you will here how the piano keeps on sounding while I play the e. piano and how the e. piano is also sustained from the still pressed sust. pedal. I think this is the desired way to crossfade one piano sound seamlessly into another piano sound. This is also how - to my knowledge - all other keyboards function with seamless switching. (And remember, you can always release the sust. pedal before it gets muddy and press it again for sustaining notes).

https://soundcloud.com/user-995680819/piano-seamless-the-right-way






Very cool!

I get it, just disagree about this. I wouldn't want this feature personally...
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/24/18 06:43 PM

Originally Posted By: mojkarma
Ok. I made two recordings here with my Montage, using the same two performances.

Yes, it's just what I expected. And it is a nice, musical example. But the point remains that (a) having the pedal transitions only work that way would break other useful approaches to transitions (i.e. solo over drone), and (b) you found a way to do what you need on the Montage anyway. I just don't see the Yamaha approach as "broken" -- it's a design choice that happens to run counter to the way you'd prefer it, that's all. There are reasons to do it their way that are just as musically valid.

Originally Posted By: benj2017
I don't think this is a productive criticism, the Kronos and MODX are at different tiers of their product lines. Makes more sense to compare the weight of the Montage and the Kronos. The MODX costs less than half of the Kronos and has considerably less in the way of functionality.

I was just saying that having all the Montage sounds and a lot of its functionality in the much lighter MODX is an approach I'd love to see from Korg with the Kronos. For example, as I mentioned elsewhere, I'd have loved to have seen most of the Kronos packaged into the Pa3X Le chassis.
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/24/18 09:07 PM

Originally Posted By: benj2017
Originally Posted By: mojkarma
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott

That wouldn't work at all! Example: Hold a string note with sustain pedal. Switch to new sound, string note keeps playing. Solo with your new sound over the drone. If you "simply release the sust. pedal and press it again" the string drone will stop!


Ok. Again.
I'm talking about the situation where you play a piano patch and switch to another piano patch.
That's the important part. I'll try to make a record tomorrow and demonstrate how it works on the Montage and how I think it should work (by using the workaround with the Sw button.)


Ok, personally I think this is splitting hairs and I agree with AnotherScott, the way you want to do it screws over anyone who wants a Synth/String/Pad drone, although personally I wouldn't do it this way. If this is going to be a thing then it should be a System level option that can be selected by the user(sustain carry or something)

Originally Posted By: sherry
Ok. Just my observation with regard to SST or Patch-hold, whatever you want to call it. Personally, I don't like using the touchscreen for changing sounds, because unless you hit it exactly right, you may change to wrong sound. I find using the buttons far more accurate that touch screen. Just my observation.. What I REALLY like about Karma Scene buttons for SST, I can change sounds up to four times without a cutoff of sound using sustain pedal. I can have splits and change to another multi w/o cutting off sound. Also, I can layer sounds using the Scene buttons. Such as, Strings on button one, hit button 2 and piano sounds w/o cutoff of sound. also I can layer the piano and strings by hitting button below scene buttons, and still have organ on scene 3 and synth on scene 4. Hope this makes sense. Thank.


I see where you are coming from with this, however Phil C on the yamaha site makes a good point that they are ways to do this on the Yamaha, just not with their version of the Scene button which is not the same as the Kronos's.

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Yes, I definitely see advantages to holding a sound through more than one transition, and for having hard buttons to switch, etc. Those weren't things mentioned earlier which is why I was unclear as to where the MODX fell down compared to Kronos, but... yep. Though personally, I'm still unclear about exactly what you can and can't do with MODX scenes. But the Kronos comparison is kind of moot in my case, because I'm only looking at the MODX 76 and 88, and I don't want the weight of the Kronos 73 or 88. I'd love to see Kronos models getting more weight/size competitive with the MODX.


I don't think this is a productive criticism, the Kronos and MODX are at different tiers of their product lines. Makes more sense to compare the weight of the Montage and the Kronos. The MODX costs less than half of the Kronos and has considerably less in the way of functionality.

Agree - the comparison to Kronos is Montage, most people favor Kronos in these parts. Alas Korg doesnít have anything that can remotely touch MODX (jmo) at $1500 US
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/24/18 10:40 PM

Originally Posted By: MotiDave
Agree - the comparison to Kronos is Montage, most people favor Kronos in these parts.

Kronos has been around a lot longer, but yeah, I suspect that Montage has not been selling as well as Kronos. You can't really get a sense from the Sweetwater and Musicians Friends sites' sort-by-sales/popularity, though, because they put the boards in different categories. But I've wondered whether Yamaha might have gotten more traction if they had instead called the successor to the Motif XF "Motif Montage." I guess Yamaha wanted people to see this as something completely new, but in the process, they lost the cachet and recognition of the Motif name. But who knows, maybe it's selling as well as the Motif series ever did, I don't know.

Originally Posted By: MotiDave
Alas Korg doesnít have anything that can remotely touch MODX (jmo) at $1500 US
Yeah, that's kinda what I was saying. The Krome sees about due for a refresh, maybe we'll be surprised.
Posted By: ElmerJFudd

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/24/18 11:07 PM

Did y'all know this past summer the guys that make SampleRobot partnered with Yamaha on a Montage Edition of the software that sample straight to the Montage format? I presume any instruments you create/convert would also work on the MODX



Montage Edition
https://www.yamahamusicsoft.com/samplerobot

They also just released a version 6 pro.
https://samplerobot.com/

Posted By: ElmerJFudd

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/24/18 11:13 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: MotiDave
Agree - the comparison to Kronos is Montage, most people favor Kronos in these parts.

Kronos has been around a lot longer, but yeah, I suspect that Montage has not been selling as well as Kronos. You can't really get a sense from the Sweetwater and Musicians Friends sites' sort-by-sales/popularity, though, because they put the boards in different categories. But I've wondered whether Yamaha might have gotten more traction if they had instead called the successor to the Motif XF "Motif Montage." I guess Yamaha wanted people to see this as something completely new, but in the process, they lost the cachet and recognition of the Motif name. But who knows, maybe it's selling as well as the Motif series ever did, I don't know.

Originally Posted By: MotiDave
Alas Korg doesnít have anything that can remotely touch MODX (jmo) at $1500 US
Yeah, that's kinda what I was saying. The Krome sees about due for a refresh, maybe we'll be surprised.


And the actions on Krome models are a escapade into ďhow cheap can we go and still get away with itĒ. Iíd rather play the FA-06 action and that is not saying very much at all.
Posted By: fjzingo

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/25/18 03:30 AM

mojkarma, Have you ever heard of a board that actually can accomplish what you wan't to do?


As I see it you have three options:

-See if you could add another sustainpedal to the montage and try to set them up to control the different sounds the way you wan't. WIth the multitude of control features on the montage this might be possible to setup

-Get a second board for piano or rhodes sounds, and of course use two pedals.

-You could learn how to use keys to sustain notes not he pedal. :-)

As my old piano teacher used to say, don't overuse the sustainpedal.







Originally Posted By: mojkarma
Ok. I made two recordings here with my Montage, using the same two performances. The first one is a Piano, the second one is one of the new RD E. Pianos. I recorded audio, on the very first try, more or less the same phrase (excuse my imperfections on this short demonstration).

In my first example, I played a phrase with a piano patch, holded the sustain pedal at the end of the phrase, switched to the e. piano by selecting the new performance on the Montage (manually) while the sust. pedal was held and kept on playing with the newly selected e. piano patch. You can hear how the e. piano sound is not sustained and it doesn't really sound right.

https://soundcloud.com/user-995680819/piano-seamless-montage-way

In my second example, I combined the piano patch and the e. piano patch into one performance and switched between the sound with the SW1 button on the Montage (its name is AF1 on the Montage). Here you will here how the piano keeps on sounding while I play the e. piano and how the e. piano is also sustained from the still pressed sust. pedal. I think this is the desired way to crossfade one piano sound seamlessly into another piano sound. This is also how - to my knowledge - all other keyboards function with seamless switching. (And remember, you can always release the sust. pedal before it gets muddy and press it again for sustaining notes).

https://soundcloud.com/user-995680819/piano-seamless-the-right-way




Posted By: mojkarma

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/25/18 01:09 PM

Originally Posted By: fjzingo
mojkarma, Have you ever heard of a board that actually can accomplish what you wan't to do?


Yes.
All the Kurzweils do, all the Rolands do, the Korg Kronos does it and as one of the last in the club, Nord does it on its newest models with seamless switching. Practically, every other (mainstream) keyboard with seamless switching works this way.

Nobody ever complained here. And now that I pointed out how Montage/Modx works different, suddenly it becomes a problem! wink
Posted By: fjzingo

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/25/18 03:03 PM

Had to go out in the studio and test, and I completely agree! It is damn annoying, works much better on the stage3.

Another annoying fact wrt montage is that yo cannot save different settings of local control on button using scenes, that was what I first tried to do when using different sounds for a tune. That way you wouldnít have to deal with the mute issue. Just have to make 12 different programs for that jackson medley..........I will kill the bandleader for any last minute song order changes....

Originally Posted By: mojkarma
Originally Posted By: fjzingo
mojkarma, Have you ever heard of a board that actually can accomplish what you wan't to do?


Yes.
All the Kurzweils do, all the Rolands do, the Korg Kronos does it and as one of the last in the club, Nord does it on its newest models with seamless switching. Practically, every other (mainstream) keyboard with seamless switching works this way.

Nobody ever complained here. And now that I pointed out how Montage/Modx works different, suddenly it becomes a problem! wink

Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/25/18 05:49 PM

A good solution for the Sustain issue would be to implement both Sustain and Sostenuto pedals... you'd use Sustain if you wanted everything to continue to sustain, and Sostenuto if you only wanted to sustain what was already playing.

My own pet peeve for something Yamaha implements differently from everyone else is Transpose. If I have a LH Bass split, and a singer wants to change the key of the song, the Transpose function doesn't work well, because it doesn't really change the pitch of the notes being generated by the keys... instead, it shifts which note commands the keys are sending out (I believe the MIDI transmit is what is changing). That is, the actual note of the split remains fixed, instead the physical split point changes. So some of your bass split keys may not be bass notes anymore. Sucks.
Posted By: sherry

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/25/18 07:07 PM

Originally Posted By: mojkarma
Originally Posted By: fjzingo
mojkarma, Have you ever heard of a board that actually can accomplish what you wan't to do?


Yes.
All the Kurzweils do, all the Rolands do, the Korg Kronos does it and as one of the last in the club, Nord does it on its newest models with seamless switching. Practically, every other (mainstream) keyboard with seamless switching works this way.

Nobody ever complained here. And now that I pointed out how Montage/Modx works different, suddenly it becomes a problem! wink



I understand. But being a weekend warrior and old as dirt, I try to use only one board and I find this limitation a deal breaker for me.
Posted By: nursers

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/25/18 08:06 PM

A mini MODX(7) review from me:

- damn I love how light it is grin
- plastic body but feels sturdy enough
- navigating patches isn't the best I've seen but workable - a key frustration for me is that there's no numeric label on the new performances you create for yourself - a pain when using MainStage to change performances
- sounds themselves - enormous range and quality is good too
- keybed is ok - nothing to get excited about but workable, also aware Im spoilt having a Kronos LS that has a keybed I love.

thu
Posted By: ElmerJFudd

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/25/18 08:32 PM

Youíre one of the few thumbing up the Kronos LS action. Actually first weíve heard from here that Iíve noticed. How does the MODX7 compare - similar different to the LS?
Posted By: bennyray

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/25/18 08:49 PM

Originally Posted By: nursers
A mini MODX(7) review from me:

- damn I love how light it is grin
- plastic body but feels sturdy enough
- navigating patches isn't the best I've seen but workable - a key frustration for me is that there's no numeric label on the new performances you create for yourself - a pain when using MainStage to change performances
- sounds themselves - enormous range and quality is good too
- keybed is ok - nothing to get excited about but workable, also aware Im spoilt having a Kronos LS that has a keybed I love.

thu



So you're saying the keybed on Kronos LS is much better?

What about the touchscreen compared to Kronos and ease of use compared to Kronos?
Posted By: GregC

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/25/18 09:22 PM

Originally Posted By: nursers
A mini MODX(7) review from me:

- navigating patches isn't the best I've seen but workable - a key frustration for me is that there's no numeric label on the new performances you create for yourself - a pain when using MainStage to change performances
- sounds themselves - enormous range and quality is good too
thu


Did you own a Motif before ? Gauging your familiarity in how Yamaha UI works for you
Posted By: nursers

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/26/18 02:23 AM

Hiya, To answer all the questions:

1. MODX keys are standard synth keys whereas the LS is piano sized but not weighted. So they're quite different but the MODX feels 'flimsier' to me but not surprised given cost differential.

2. I've gotta give the thumbs up to the MODX touchscreen - it's smaller than the Kronos but much more responsive - more like a smartphone whereas it's a constant thing on Kronos to have to press harder.

3. Never owned a Motif / Montage before - last Yamaha I owned was an S70XS. I prefer the Korg UI big-time but I've managed to work most things out on the MODX without needing to refer to the manual.
Posted By: fjzingo

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/26/18 03:07 AM

- navigating patches isn't the best I've seen but workable - a key frustration for me is that there's no numeric label on the new performances you create for yourself - a pain when using MainStage to change performances

Hit the name of the sound and press info, that way you get the MSB/LSB/Program change no




Originally Posted By: nursers
A mini MODX(7) review from me:

- damn I love how light it is grin
- plastic body but feels sturdy enough
- navigating patches isn't the best I've seen but workable - a key frustration for me is that there's no numeric label on the new performances you create for yourself - a pain when using MainStage to change performances
- sounds themselves - enormous range and quality is good too
- keybed is ok - nothing to get excited about but workable, also aware Im spoilt having a Kronos LS that has a keybed I love.

thu
Posted By: musomarc

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/26/18 08:30 AM

Hi,
Recently purchased a MODX8 and also own a MOXF8.
Loving the sounds and capabilities of this keyboard and it's LIGHTWEIGHT.
BUT Still having problems following the transfer/migration of Performances from MOXF to MODX format despite a reply from Bad Mister.
Please excuse my lack of tech knowledge as I am having trouble with "a new learning curve on a new instrument"- BUT I am an avid user /owner of Yamaha keyboards from DX& and CP70 days in the 80s:(

Basically in the majority of my performances on the MOXF I have usually use 3-4 voices spread about the keyboard some "voices" layered and others split using MOFX terminology.

E.g a Typical MOXF performance I used for various specific songs ( where limited to 4 parts/voices) using Part 1:- Acoustic Piano, Part 2:-a favourite Rhodes or Wurlie sound , Part 3:- a Hammond B3 sound, Part 4:- Brass/ Strings or Synth
If I was constructing a similar Performance on the MODX
1. Am I limited to 4 Parts as was in the case with the Moxf ? Or More on the MODX?
2. Can you please explain how to setup a similar performance as per above example on the MODX with step by step instructions?
3. I basically want to use the 4 sliders on the MODX to control volumes of my 4 parts ( or more parts if I am able to on the MODX and use parts 5-8) as per above example
- piano, rhodes, organ, brass/strings/synth for realtime mixing within a song sections e.g Verse, chorus etc in a live band performance
4.If I want to use e.g the better quality MODX CFX Pop/Rock piano to replace Studio Grand from Mofx as the CFX Pop/Rock piano has 3 active parts/elements 1,2 and 4 how does this relate or work with what I have been doing live on my Moxf? And how do I add the other 3 or more parts that I may require Rhodes,Organ , brass/strings

PS.I also own a Roland RD2000 keyboard and have created similar Song Performance set ups with it using sliders 1-8 controlling a combination of Internal and external sounds BUT find this keyboard too heavy and wide for many many stage setups and purchased the Yamaha MODX as a more lightweight master keyboard.
Hopefully someone out there doing the same thing ( with more technical knowledge than me) and upgrading to the MODX from MOXF can understand my questions and any help would be greatly appreciated.
Regards
Mark
Posted By: nursers

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/26/18 09:45 AM


Originally Posted By: fjzingo
- navigating patches isn't the best I've seen but workable - a key frustration for me is that there's no numeric label on the new performances you create for yourself - a pain when using MainStage to change performances

Hit the name of the sound and press info, that way you get the MSB/LSB/Program change no


Great pickup thanks so much!
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/26/18 10:49 AM

Originally Posted By: musomarc
1. Am I limited to 4 Parts as was in the case with the Moxf ? Or More on the MODX?

Your premise is wrong, in that you were not limited to 4 parts on the MOXF. While that was a limit of Performance mode, you could go beyond that if you were in Song/Pattern Mixing mode, which lots of people used for live performance, despite the nomenclature. Then you could go up to 16 parts (though only eight could have insert fx). You'd also get the advantage of patch remain between all 16 parts, though you'd lose some Performance mode features, like arp controls and Direct Performance Record. See http://www.motifator.com/index.php/forum/viewthread/465634/ (and the article referenced in that thread, at http://www.motifator.com/index.php/support/view/using_a_mixing_setup_for_multiple_sounds_live1 )

This becomes more relevant to your question because, as guru Bad Mister said, "You can think of the MODX as always being in MIXING mode." You can have 16 sounds at a time in what the MODX now calls a Performance (I believe 12 can have insert fx; and if you keep it down to no more an 8, you can have seamless switching to other Performances).
Posted By: ElmerJFudd

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/26/18 11:44 PM

Helpful Q&A

Posted By: zephonic

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/27/18 02:13 AM

On Yamahaís MODX page it states the BŲsendorfer sound library is compatible with the MODX.
Does anybody know if MODX owners have to pay the full price ($99)? Or do they get it at a discount, or even for free?
Posted By: Swithin

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/27/18 04:57 AM

I think I read on the yamahamusicians.com forum that it's free and the transfer took less than 5 minutes.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/27/18 10:36 AM

Originally Posted By: Aidan
* The keybed is pretty good. Don't get all excited on me, it's a long stretch from a CP4. But it's a lot better than the MOXF8
Originally Posted By: stoken6
Another recent Yamaha hammer board, the P125, had a superior-to-MOXF8 action in my opinion when I tested it recently.

I played a DGX660 yesterday, and I felt that was better feeling than the MOXF8 as well, despite all of these boards being GHS. This make me even more eager to get my hands on a MODX8!
Posted By: Charleston

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/27/18 01:20 PM

Is the MODX6 keybed the same as the MOXF6?
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/27/18 01:42 PM

Originally Posted By: Charleston
Is the MODX6 keybed the same as the MOXF6?

Good question.

This says yes:
https://yamahamusicians.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=186&t=11703&p=69457&hilit=moxf#p69457

This says no:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfH4NFvuJzU (discussed from about 1:00 to 2:30)
Posted By: Adan

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/27/18 01:52 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: Charleston
Is the MODX6 keybed the same as the MOXF6?

Good question.

This says yes:
https://yamahamusicians.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=186&t=11703&p=69457&hilit=moxf#p69457

This says no:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfH4NFvuJzU (discussed from about 1:00 to 2:30)



This is as important as anything else I could know about it. The first link didn't work for me. The second link is just that guy's impression, not official Yamaha info.

The MOXF action is, imo, quite good for the price point, and much better than similarly priced competition from Korg and Roland. It would be great if the MODX was better, but not disqualifying if it was the same.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/27/18 02:01 PM

Originally Posted By: Adan
This is as important as anything else I could know about it. The first link didn't work for me. The second link is just that guy's impression, not official Yamaha info.

The MOXF action is, imo, quite good for the price point, and much better than similarly priced competition from Korg and Roland. It would be great if the MODX was better, but not disqualifying if it was the same.

Well, it's at least probably pretty safe to assume that it's the same or better. ;-) We know it's not entirely identical, though, because of the matte finish on the black keys. As for the first link, maybe you have to be registered at the site. Anyway, the site admin there said, "The MODX 6 & 7 use the same keybed you will find in the MOXF. I liked it when the MOXF came out and I still like it on the MODX7." But you're right, neither of these people are acting as official Yamaha spokespeople.
Posted By: Bucktunes

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/27/18 06:54 PM

The essence of a Montage 8 (for me, anyway) for less than half the price and weight?! I've been saving for the Montage 8, but this could shorten my saving time. love drool I just wonder if the difference in DAC converters mentioned earlier makes a noticeable difference in the sound quality. That would be the only reason to keep saving, IMO.

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: Aidan
* The keybed is pretty good. Don't get all excited on me, it's a long stretch from a CP4. But it's a lot better than the MOXF8
Originally Posted By: stoken6
Another recent Yamaha hammer board, the P125, had a superior-to-MOXF8 action in my opinion when I tested it recently.

I played a DGX660 yesterday, and I felt that was better feeling than the MOXF8 as well, despite all of these boards being GHS. This make me even more eager to get my hands on a MODX8!


I suppose Yamaha could have just quietly improved on the action without changing the name of it. Car manufacturers do that constantly! laugh
Posted By: bennyray

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/27/18 07:17 PM

This may help video of both side by side!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ob4o2xEH6Y
Posted By: Dave Ferris

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/27/18 09:45 PM

^^^
Listening to the piano up to around 1:30 with Neumann KHS120s and a Benchmark DAC 3-- the Montage has a noticeably thicker, fuller, more rich sound.

I don't think you would be able to discern a huge difference, live in a group, with generic $500-600 speakers.
Posted By: gg22

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/27/18 10:04 PM

Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
^^^
Listening to the piano up to around 1:30 with Neumann KHS120s and a Benchmark DAC 3-- the Montage has a noticeably thicker, fuller, more rich sound.

I don't think you would be able to discern a huge difference, live in a group, with generic $500-600 speakers.


I think the Montage is just mixed a bit louder.
Posted By: MIDI2XS

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/27/18 10:21 PM

Originally Posted By: gg22
Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
^^^
Listening to the piano up to around 1:30 with Neumann KHS120s and a Benchmark DAC 3-- the Montage has a noticeably thicker, fuller, more rich sound.

I don't think you would be able to discern a huge difference, live in a group, with generic $500-600 speakers.


I think the Montage is just mixed a bit louder.

Could be - a slight increase in recorded level is typically perceived as sounding "better", not "louder".

https://www.teachmeaudio.com/recording/sound-reproduction/fletcher-munson-curves/
https://ehomerecordingstudio.com/fletcher-munson-curve/
Posted By: bennyray

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/27/18 10:24 PM

Dave I think you nailed it pretty much the Montage has a fuller and more dynamic sound.
Posted By: Dave Ferris

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/27/18 10:34 PM

Originally Posted By: gg22
Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
^^^
Listening to the piano up to around 1:30 with Neumann KHS120s and a Benchmark DAC 3-- the Montage has a noticeably thicker, fuller, more rich sound.

I don't think you would be able to discern a huge difference, live in a group, with generic $500-600 speakers.


I think the Montage is just mixed a bit louder.


Not hearing a huge volume discrepancy over my system. The Montage might be a tad louder.

The sonic quality, for piano, between the two is pretty obviously heard here. That said, the MODX sounds very good.
Posted By: miden

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/27/18 10:52 PM

Well, fwiw, I just ditched the SP6 for the MODX 8, so I am happy to be hearing these positive things.
Posted By: KeyMoe

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/27/18 11:29 PM

Just played the MODX 8 at the local guitar center for about 15 minutes. Generally I liked the way it sounded and the action was good at the price point. Over all for the money it seems to be a pretty good buy.
Posted By: burningbusch

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/28/18 12:34 AM

The above Montage/MODX comparison video leaves the viewer with some assumptions that might not be true:

a) That programs/performances with the same name are VOICED the same. That's a BIG assumption. Manufacturers revoicing/tweak all the time.
b) Channels on the mixer and inputs into the recorder are EQed and calibrated the same.
c) A person playing similar passages on two different keyboard actions will sound same.

I'm always highly suspect of the live Youtube comparisons between different systems. That's not how it should be done if you want a completely honest shootout.

I'll say this. If there's that big a difference between IDENTICAL piano programs, then Houston, we have a problem. In a digital system, that just shouldn't be the case. I've done a lot of ABing of modern DACs and the differences should be subtle. Personally, I have zero confidence in that Youtube comparison. None.

I played the MODX8 today and compared it against the Montage8. I was surprised that the overall fit & finish was that close (the MODX just didn't feel cheap). I thought the MODX8 action was fine. Not the same balanced, weighted feel of the Montage, but it was fine and a significant improvement over the MOXF, which I also played. In playing a CFX performance on the Montage, I really liked how it responded dynamically. I pulled up the "same" performance on the MODX and didn't quite get the same reaction. Different actions for sure, possibly different voicing and I was playing through different speaker systems. So my verdict is, no verdict.

I was considering the Montage, not any longer. The MODX has all that I need.

Busch.
Posted By: Barryjam

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/28/18 12:44 AM

Busch,

If you personally decide on MODX, I just hope you create sounds for the Montage, which can then also be used in MODX. (You have no doubt heard that Montage cannot read MODX files).
Posted By: Mogut

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/28/18 01:41 AM

I played all three sizes at Cosmo music today in toronto area. Key action on modx8 is exactly same as the moxf8. If your a montage lover, this is the board to gig with, i did the lift test. Me, i guess iím still completely satisfied with my XS8 and moXF8.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/28/18 02:26 AM

Originally Posted By: burningbusch
I played the MODX8 today...I thought the MODX8 action was fine...and a significant improvement over the MOXF, which I also played.
Originally Posted By: Mogut
I played all three sizes at Cosmo music today in toronto area. Key action on modx8 is exactly same as the moxf8.

Well, I'm glad that's settled then. ;-)
Posted By: Dave Ferris

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/28/18 03:07 AM

Originally Posted By: burningbusch
I'm always highly suspect of the live Youtube comparisons between different systems. That's not how it should be done if you want a completely honest shootout.

I'll say this. If there's that big a difference between IDENTICAL piano programs, then Houston, we have a problem. In a digital system, that just shouldn't be the case. I've done a lot of ABing of modern DACs and the differences should be subtle. Personally, I have zero confidence in that Youtube comparison. None.

I played the MODX8 today and compared it against the Montage8. I was surprised that the overall fit & finish was that close (the MODX just didn't feel cheap). I thought the MODX8 action was fine. Not the same balanced, weighted feel of the Montage, but it was fine and a significant improvement over the MOXF, which I also played. In playing a CFX performance on the Montage, I really liked how it responded dynamically. I pulled up the "same" performance on the MODX and didn't quite get the same reaction. Different actions for sure, possibly different voicing and I was playing through different speaker systems. So my verdict is, no verdict.

Busch.


I agree that youtube comparisons leave everything to be desired. I don't even trust them when they compare high concert grands next to each other.

Of course there's no substitute for hands on, side by side comparison. With electronic keyboards, I like headphones (even though you won't be hearing the keyboard through phones on a live gig) so the lame speakers they often use in stores are taken out of the equation.

I was commenting specifically on the video, what was presented and what I was hearing through my fairly higher end monitor system.

Again if I were in the market for an 88 Montage vs the MODX 88 for live gigs, I'm fairly certain the new Yamaha would be more then fine for that purpose.
Posted By: Mogut

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/28/18 03:15 AM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: burningbusch
I played the MODX8 today...I thought the MODX8 action was fine...and a significant improvement over the MOXF, which I also played.
Originally Posted By: Mogut
I played all three sizes at Cosmo music today in toronto area. Key action on modx8 is exactly same as the moxf8.

Well, I'm glad that's settled then. ;-)


if thereís any ďimprovementĒ on the action, it ainít ďsignificantĒ. Iím pretty intimate with the moxf8 and i didnt feel a difference. it wonít be long until someone opens up the board and confirms. But generally if Yamaha is not bragging about a new feature, that means itís not new or improved
Posted By: zephonic

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/28/18 03:20 AM

Those MOXF floor models at the GC's and SA's get beat up pretty bad. One month in the store and that action is gone.

I can imagine a brand-new MODX would feel much better than a MOXF that has been on the floor for a while.


Anyway, I'm getting my MODX8 on Monday. boing
Posted By: Mogut

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/28/18 03:25 AM

Originally Posted By: zephonic
Those MOXF floor models at the GC's and SA's get beat up pretty bad. One month in the store and that action is gone.

I can imagine a brand-new MODX would feel much better than a MOXF that has been on the floor for a while.


Anyway, I'm getting my MODX8 on Monday. boing


I definitely agree with this statement. The moxf8 definitely loosened up over time on my board.
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/28/18 02:17 PM

My use is live performance - DAC difference will be negligible compared to the venue - to - venue variation imo. I donít hear a practical difference in gigging Motif XF vs MOXF.

Iím ordering a 7 soon ... I need to have it dialed in for late December shows, so maybe this next week ...
Posted By: GovernorSilver

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/28/18 06:28 PM

Short and sweet demo - kudos to you if you're on this forum.

Posted By: burningbusch

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/28/18 09:58 PM

Originally Posted By: Mogut
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: burningbusch
I played the MODX8 today...I thought the MODX8 action was fine...and a significant improvement over the MOXF, which I also played.
Originally Posted By: Mogut
I played all three sizes at Cosmo music today in toronto area. Key action on modx8 is exactly same as the moxf8.

Well, I'm glad that's settled then. ;-)


if thereís any ďimprovementĒ on the action, it ainít ďsignificantĒ. Iím pretty intimate with the moxf8 and i didnt feel a difference. it wonít be long until someone opens up the board and confirms. But generally if Yamaha is not bragging about a new feature, that means itís not new or improved


I defer to anyone with extended experience with these actions. Likely what I found was a result of new vs worn. I will say manufacturers do routinely revise things like keyboard actions without changing designations. Korg did it with the RH3 when the moved from the problematic contacts. Internally, they might be called rev 1, 2, 3, etc. but publicly it's just known as the RH3.

Busch.
Posted By: KorgyPorky

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/29/18 01:57 AM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: Charleston
Is the MODX6 keybed the same as the MOXF6?

Good question.

This says yes:
https://yamahamusicians.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=186&t=11703&p=69457&hilit=moxf#p69457

This says no:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfH4NFvuJzU (discussed from about 1:00 to 2:30)



I tested them next to eachother at music store..(61 keys)
The moxd feels like a slightly modded version of the moxf to me..
Somehow feels a little less flimsy when playing the modx..
Touch is almost the same..
Posted By: Aidan

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/29/18 08:06 AM

Finally got around to downloading the Bosendorfer Ė it's a big improvement on the CFX for my money and definitely worth grabbing while you can. Also downloaded Chick's Mk V and that too is absolutely excellent. A pity that there's not really room for anything else once you have that installed but still, at least I have the option of using MainStage to expand the sonic palette.
Posted By: lsj

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/29/18 09:40 AM

hello Aidan, since I see you have Tyros, I was wondering how the horn voices, namely tenor sax, sound on the MODX as compared to the Tyros......Larry
Posted By: KorgyPorky

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/29/18 10:42 AM

Originally Posted By: Aidan
Finally got around to downloading the Bosendorfer Ė it's a big improvement on the CFX for my money and definitely worth grabbing while you can. Also downloaded Chick's Mk V and that too is absolutely excellent. A pity that there's not really room for anything else once you have that installed but still, at least I have the option of using MainStage to expand the sonic palette.


The CFX isnít bad...
but its a typical bright yamaha piano sound,
very well suited for cutting trough a mix..
The bŲsendorfer is much warmer in character
Which makes it excellently suited for solo piano parts..

This is not so much a matter of the sample quallity
But much more about the tonal differnece between a yamaha grand and a BŲsendorfer or steinway..
Posted By: KorgyPorky

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/29/18 11:02 AM

Originally Posted By: lsj
hello Aidan, since I see you have Tyros, I was wondering how the horn voices, namely tenor sax, sound on the MODX as compared to the Tyros......Larry


They are on par with SA1 voices
Not with SA2 voices..

On Modx you can also create your own sa voices, even from scratch.
Posted By: Aidan

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/29/18 11:24 AM

Originally Posted By: lsj
hello Aidan, since I see you have Tyros, I was wondering how the horn voices, namely tenor sax, sound on the MODX as compared to the Tyros......Larry


Hi Larry, simply put, they're not as good. The Tyros voices have various bits of AI in terms of inflection, slurs, key noise etc baked into them which respond to your playing automatically. The Montage/MODX/Motif voices, by comparison, maybe have one or at most two variations in them activated by the assignable function buttons. For function band gigs, fine, but the Tyros versions are way ahead in realism and some are viable substitutions for big software libraries.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/29/18 11:47 AM

Originally Posted By: Aidan
The Tyros voices have various bits of AI in terms of inflection, slurs, key noise etc baked into them which respond to your playing automatically. The Montage/MODX/Motif voices, by comparison, maybe have one or at most two variations in them activated by the assignable function buttons. For function band gigs, fine, but the Tyros versions are way ahead in realism and some are viable substitutions for big software libraries.

This is the same idea as Roland's SuperNatural acoustic tones. A MODX driving a Roland Integra could be another way to skin this cat.
Posted By: lvercaut

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/29/18 01:27 PM

The MODX is not for me.
I owned the 7 for 2 days last week and send it back to the store.
While the MODX sounds are ok and the motionsounds are spectacular for one or two times, i didn't like the overal feel of this keyboard. It feels like i was playing a toy and not an instrument.
It's all plastic, it's too light, i would fly of my stand when there is too much wind outside on stage. I'm sorry Yamaha .
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/29/18 01:29 PM

Originally Posted By: lvercaut
The MODX is not for me.
I owned the 7 for 2 days last week and send it back to the store.
While the MODX sounds are ok and the motionsounds are spectacular for one or two times, i didn't like the overal feel of this keyboard. It feels like i was playing a toy and not an instrument.
It's all plastic, it's too light, i would fly of my stand when there is too much wind outside on stage. I'm sorry Yamaha .


Just curious - What is the right board for you? Itíd help us gage your review. Not questioning - your review is perfectly valid. All such things are personal and its for you, its not for you, its somewhere in between. There is never a right answer
Posted By: burningbusch

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/29/18 01:29 PM

Originally Posted By: Barryjam
Busch,

If you personally decide on MODX, I just hope you create sounds for the Montage, which can then also be used in MODX. (You have no doubt heard that Montage cannot read MODX files).


Thanks Barry. Yes, I'm aware of that issue and am trying to work through it. I would very much like to provide products on both.

Busch.
Posted By: lvercaut

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/29/18 01:53 PM

Originally Posted By: MotiDave
Originally Posted By: lvercaut
The MODX is not for me.
I owned the 7 for 2 days last week and send it back to the store.
While the MODX sounds are ok and the motionsounds are spectacular for one or two times, i didn't like the overal feel of this keyboard. It feels like i was playing a toy and not an instrument.
It's all plastic, it's too light, i would fly of my stand when there is too much wind outside on stage. I'm sorry Yamaha .


Just curious - What is the right board for you? Itíd help us gage your review. Not questioning - your review is perfectly valid. All such things are personal and its for you, its not for you, its somewhere in between. There is never a right answer


I always had to much fun with the old Kurzweil Sp4-7 as bottom board and an Nord Electro 61 or Mojo 61 on top.
But don't get me wrong, i love Yamaha and also owned the Montage 8 for a while, (+ many other Yamaha's S90, S90ES, S90XS, P150, P200, P250, P90, Cp33) but Montage 8 being to big ...
Posted By: midinut

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/29/18 03:41 PM

In the FWIW department, I just got back from GC where they had a nice display with a MODX8 right as you walked in the door. Spent a few minutes on it and will see what I can sell to help fund it. I used to own a DGX-500 years ago and currently have a M-Audio Keystation 88es and the keybed on the MODX8 feels similar to both of them in my opinion. Manageable, but I'd be using it for a one-board gigging solution along with my MBP and Mainstage anyway. If I want something closer to a more traditional weighted piano action I've got the Kronos 88 in the home studio. I've also got a FC7 that I can see using to replicate the big knob function and not have to take my hands off the board. Definitely left with GAS.
Posted By: I-missRichardTee

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/29/18 05:49 PM

Originally Posted By: midinut
In the FWIW department, I just got back from GC where they had a nice display with a MODX8 right as you walked in the door. Spent a few minutes on it and will see what I can sell to help fund it. I used to own a DGX-500 years ago and currently have a M-Audio Keystation 88es and the keybed on the MODX8 feels similar to both of them in my opinion. Manageable, but I'd be using it for a one-board gigging solution along with my MBP and Mainstage anyway. If I want something closer to a more traditional weighted piano action I've got the Kronos 88 in the home studio. I've also got a FC7 that I can see using to replicate the big knob function and not have to take my hands off the board. Definitely left with GAS.


Me too... just last night an MODX8.
Questions that may likely be nested in the preceding 14 pages.

The basic intended application is for live playing, split bass and 3 voices minimum in right hand.... With easy control of those voices as I perform, just like my previous keyboards.
Fantom G6, Kurz PC88.

Is it comparable sonically to Montage? It sounded close. If identical, what is absent from "it" compared to Montage?

Splits anywhere, same as most keyboards? No limiting restrictions such as the DMG660?

How many parts can be "played" at the same time? I am guessing 8 ( though I heard 16, which seems impractical for Live ) but only 4 sliders!

No restrictions re Octave of parts ( like my tyros ) ?
No restrictions with sustain pedal assignment among all parts ?
I lifted it momentarily and it seemed lighter than Montage 8.

if there is a page where all this info is found, can it be posted here?
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/29/18 06:22 PM

Originally Posted By: I-missRichardTee
Originally Posted By: midinut
In the FWIW department, I just got back from GC where they had a nice display with a MODX8 right as you walked in the door. Spent a few minutes on it and will see what I can sell to help fund it. I used to own a DGX-500 years ago and currently have a M-Audio Keystation 88es and the keybed on the MODX8 feels similar to both of them in my opinion. Manageable, but I'd be using it for a one-board gigging solution along with my MBP and Mainstage anyway. If I want something closer to a more traditional weighted piano action I've got the Kronos 88 in the home studio. I've also got a FC7 that I can see using to replicate the big knob function and not have to take my hands off the board. Definitely left with GAS.


Me too... just last night an MODX8.
Questions that may likely be nested in the preceding 14 pages.

The basic intended application is for live playing, split bass and 3 voices minimum in right hand.... With easy control of those voices as I perform, just like my previous keyboards.
Fantom G6, Kurz PC88.

Is it comparable sonically to Montage? It sounded close. If identical, what is absent from "it" compared to Montage?

Splits anywhere, same as most keyboards? No limiting restrictions such as the DMG660?

How many parts can be "played" at the same time? I am guessing 8 ( though I heard 16, which seems impractical for Live ) but only 4 sliders!

No restrictions re Octave of parts ( like my tyros ) ?
No restrictions with sustain pedal assignment among all parts ?
I lifted it momentarily and it seemed lighter than Montage 8.

if there is a page where all this info is found, can it be posted here?

I doubt all of that i on one page.

Tuning can be +/- 6 octaves between Element tuning (+/- 4) and Part tuning (+/- 2). doubtful youíll find instances that require greater shift.

8 parts can be ďplayedĒ via keyboard, another 8 by external controller if so configured.

4 drawbars, but there is a 1-4 / 5-8 button to toggle between which of the part groups are affected.

Sustain, can be recognized or ignored by each part as you program it. Default is probably recognize sustain messages, you can toggle it off. Same as Motifs

MODX8 weighs 30 lbs, Montage ~ 63 lbs. so yes, it should feel lighter

Splits and layers anywhere you wish to program them, yes.
Posted By: jahfume

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/29/18 07:14 PM


Best demo Ive seen so far from a performers perspective.

https://youtu.be/-Ps2HnG9Iz4

Maybe someone can embed it as Im clueless.

The guy states that the flash ram is 768 megs (as oposed to 1 gig)- Busch take note!
Posted By: Aidan

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/29/18 08:55 PM

Originally Posted By: jahfume
The guy states that the flash ram is 768 megs (as oposed to 1 gig)- Busch take note!


He's wrong. I've uploaded both the Bosendorfer (423mb) and Chick's MkV (418mb) to my MODX8. No problems.
Posted By: Aidan

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/29/18 08:58 PM

First gig with it tonight, mostly trio with LH bass and new monitoring system (via Rolls PM351). Very happy so far. My brass layer choices are a bit bright and artificial at PA volumes but otherwise pretty happy with my initial programming. I'm thinking I'm still gonna have to go with the Electro or Hammond on top to take care of organ sounds. Fortunately, either can be mixed in through the A/D inputs of the MODX.
Posted By: davedoerfler

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/29/18 09:00 PM

Originally Posted By: jahfume

Best demo Ive seen so far from a performers perspective.
Maybe someone can embed it as Im clueless.


here you are then smile

Posted By: jahfume

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/29/18 09:16 PM


Why, Thank you Dave!

Aidan- well hes not wrong about having to tell the drummer twice. (To change the tempo!)
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX - 09/30/18 11:09 PM

Any more keybed comparisons between the MOXF8 and the MODX8? And did the MOXF8 stand the test of time?
Posted By: Music*aL

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/01/18 12:15 AM

I played the MODX8 briefly at GC this afternoon. I didn't discern any significant differences between the action on the MODX and my MOFX (which I sold a couple of months ago). The sound quality is much improved on the pianos and the EP's. Actually, pretty impressive. I'll be going back for some another test drive soon.
Posted By: KorgyPorky

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/01/18 02:00 AM

Originally Posted By: Fleer
Any more keybed comparisons between the MOXF8 and the MODX8? And did the MOXF8 stand the test of time?


The quallity (fysically) of the moxf and moxd keybeds is just fine..
They are not flimsy and sturdy enough to withstand time..
However as a piano player the GHS action does not really feel that good
As aynth player the GHS is a good keybed.. altough a little slow for fast passages..

But for a light weight 88 key, the GHS is the only Yamaha action available..
Its durable and will withstand time
And while not the most authentic, it will allow you to play allmost anything..

Where it comes to keyboard action
There is but one rule
Go try it out for yourself
There is many many keyboarsds with yamaha GHS action
Posted By: zephonic

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/01/18 02:56 AM

Originally Posted By: KorgyPorky


The quallity (fysically) of the moxf and moxd keybeds is just fine..
They are not flimsy and sturdy enough to withstand time..


While they didn't break on me:

Originally Posted By: zephonic

I have owned three keyboards with the GHS action, a P85, KX8, and now the MX88. In both the P85 and MX88 the action started getting (mechanically) noisy after a few months. Not a problem on stage, but distracting in the studio.
Posted By: I-missRichardTee

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/01/18 05:07 AM

MotiDave quote

"MODX8 weighs 30 lbs, Montage ~ 63 lbs. so yes, it should feel lighter"

33 lb difference! One wonders what is the sonic difference that that extra weight entails?

Do other Montage owners have opinion about this little brother to the MODX6 7 8 , tone wise eg comparing the same pianos on each board?

33 lbs and 2000 dollars... what does the MODX not have that a simple musician - non tech pianist - might want or need for live performance?

Posted By: I-missRichardTee

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/01/18 05:11 AM

Originally Posted By: KorgyPorky
Originally Posted By: Fleer
Any more keybed comparisons between the MOXF8 and the MODX8? And did the MOXF8 stand the test of time?


The quallity (fysically) of the moxf and moxd keybeds is just fine..
They are not flimsy and sturdy enough to withstand time..
However as a piano player the GHS action does not really feel that good
As aynth player the GHS is a good keybed.. altough a little slow for fast passages..

But for a light weight 88 key, the GHS is the only Yamaha action available..
Its durable and will withstand time
And while not the most authentic, it will allow you to play allmost anything..

Where it comes to keyboard action
There is but one rule
Go try it out for yourself
There is many many keyboards with yamaha GHS action


Which non weighted do you prefer?
Same question for weighted?
Posted By: mojkarma

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/01/18 06:22 AM

Originally Posted By: I-missRichardTee

33 lbs and 2000 dollars... what does the MODX not have that a simple musician - non tech pianist - might want or need for live performance?


My 2 cents as a Montage 6 owner regarding your question:

The modx 6/7 has a keybed which I personally simply don't like. It feels cheap (to me), doesn't give me any substantial feedback and most importantly, I don't enjoy playing it. In the same way, there is a reason why a drummer prefers to play on a real drum kit instead of an electronic kit and it is by far not only the sound.
The modx8 is a different thing, but if the modx6/7 have keybeds similar to the mox/fx, for me personally it is a big no. I simply don't want to play on those keys like on the mox/fx, korg triton le/tr and similar anymore . I feel punished with those keybeds for not selecting the flagship model.

The modx has less parts for seamless switching and it has less sample memory. Whether this is important or not is up to every individual.

The montage allows you to select your sounds directly with buttons and up to 256 liveset slots can be selected with just two button clicks. The modx doesn't have those buttons (on the right side of the screen). The liveset screen consist of 16 pages where each page shows 16 slots. The slots can be easily selected with one tap. But the respective page can be reached only by pressing the up/down button. That means, jumping from page 1 to page 8 requires you to press the up button eight times before you can select a slot within that page. For me personally, that is an absolute no go on stage. A keyboard where you have to press ten times different buttons before you get to the sound you want, is simply a bad design and the company saved on the wrong part.
(Yamaha could resolve that problem on the modx by creating a drop down menu for selecting one of the 16 pages, but at this point you have to haunt thru the 16 pages with a simple up/down selection method).

To make it short: the keybed and sound selecting method would be my two most important reasons why I would still rather choose the Montage 6/7 over the Modx. When it comes to the modx8, that is a different story and I certainly would never choose the Montage 8 because it is faaaar to heavy. Owned a similar keyboard twice (Korg Triton proX and Roland Fantom G8), never again.
Posted By: Legatoboy

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/01/18 08:33 AM

The GHS action as implemented in my MX88 which I sold was too shallow for me (the note throw I believe is the term) but it's implementation on my old P95 I keep around for outside rehersals is fine. Never really understood that...the implementations must have adjustments built in or there are different iterations of GHS is my guess...

I prefer the action's throw in my Kurzweil SP6 which is more like the GHS's implementation in my old P95.

I will have to check out the MODX just to know about the action now... GC for lunch this week...hope they have one out!

Posted By: Theo Verelst

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/01/18 08:44 AM

At first I thought this thread was a fake, but I've looked at UJIIE Katsunori's video about it, and it looks like a cheaper Montage for some part. Now, who is going to really do something with that, mm? I mean yet another fascist modernistic rhythm perversion isn't what I mean, but something new and cool. Or hot, anything that's interesting and makes clear why the world needed this keyboard?

T.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/01/18 09:01 AM

Originally Posted By: KorgyPorky
Originally Posted By: Fleer
Any more keybed comparisons between the MOXF8 and the MODX8?
...
Where it comes to keyboard action
There is but one rule
Go try it out for yourself
There is many many keyboarsds with yamaha GHS action

The question remains whether the different GHS actions all feel the same. If not, trying whatever GHS you find doesn't necessarily tell you how the MODX8 feels.

Originally Posted By: I-missRichardTee
33 lbs and 2000 dollars... what does the MODX not have that a simple musician - non tech pianist - might want or need for live performance?

Better action. Hard to say for "simple musician - non tech pianist" but some performers might also appreciate things like aftertouch, ribbon controller, being able to seamlessly switch between sets of up to 8 sounds at once (vs. 4), having more real-time sliders/knobs (with visual representation of their settings), hard button navigation (in addition to touchscreen), more memory to load additional sounds (including user samples, if desired), 8 scenes (button-switchable sounds) within a Performance vs. 4, more simultaneous effects and polyphony (probably not relevant for most performing situations), internal power supply (instead of wall wart), additional assignable outs and balanced outs (I think).

Originally Posted By: I-missRichardTee
Which non weighted do you prefer?
Same question for weighted?

It's subjective, but consensus on weighted actions is probably that all Roland hammer actions except maybe Ivory Feel G are better than GHS; Korg RH3; all other Yamaha hammer actions of course; all the Fatar TP40 models (in assorted models from Kurzweil, Nord, and others); all the Kawai models; most of the Casio models. For non-hammer actions, Roland Jupiter 50 and Jupiter 80 (which are different from each other, though also now both discontinued), Korg Kronos, Yamaha FSX, and arguably some of the Fatar and Casio actions.

Originally Posted By: mojkarma
The liveset screen consist of 16 pages where each page shows 16 slots. The slots can be easily selected with one tap. But the respective page can be reached only by pressing the up/down button. That means, jumping from page 1 to page 8 requires you to press the up button eight times before you can select a slot within that page. For me personally, that is an absolute no go on stage.

Kronos has the exact same aggravating and easily fixable problem.
Posted By: mojkarma

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/01/18 09:57 AM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott

Kronos has the exact same aggravating and easily fixable problem.


Yes, with a few significant advances over the Montage/Modx method.

1. The next/previous buttons work endlessly on the Kronos. That means if you are on the first page with the first 16 slots, you can hit the previous button and see actually the last page of the setlist. This doesn't work on the Montage. If you want to go from page 1 to page 16, you simply have to press the next button sixteen times.

2. There is IMO another significant advance on the Kronos over the Montage: Kronos has 128 setlists - each setlist containing 128 slots. The Montage has 8 setlists with 256 slots in each.
Those 128 setlists on the Kronos can be dialed directly by entering the number on the numeric keypad.
If I would be a Kronos user, I would simply use a different setlist for a single song. The first page on the setlist contains 16 slots which is more then enough to cover all parts of a song with dedicated sounds/combinations.
In that way, you can select the setlist for up to 128 songs directly by entering the respective setlist number on the keypad and hit a slot on the first page without the need to cycle thru next/previous pages.

As I said, this is not a problem on the Montage where you can select the pages within a setlist directly with buttons, but the Modx is here a different story.
Posted By: Al Coda

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/01/18 10:18 AM

Originally Posted By: Theo Verelst

... fascist modernistic rhythm perversion ...


grin facepalm

Originally Posted By: Theo Verelst

why the world needed this keyboard?


because of the above ...

wink

A.C.
Posted By: GregC

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/01/18 10:25 AM

Originally Posted By: Theo Verelst
At first I thought this thread was a fake, but I've looked at UJIIE Katsunori's video about it, and it looks like a cheaper Montage for some part.

1) Now, who is going to really do something with that, mm?
2)I mean yet another fascist modernistic rhythm perversion isn't what I mean, but something new and cool.
3)Or hot, anything that's interesting and makes clear why the world needed this keyboard?


T.


1) and 3) people like me , with too much time on their hands to learn a new keyboard

2) another fascist modernistic rhythm perversion= another 2 minute EDM song that sounds like previous 100 EDM songs
wink
Posted By: Legatoboy

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/01/18 10:59 AM

Upstaged once again by another of Theo's posts...(sigh)! I liked the 'fascist' remark actually! Music can be very political...like the composer/conductor who helped the Nazis with Wagners music who wasn't really a NAZI who had to make a decision...think they made a movie or a book out of his story! Yes the Japanese have had some fascist ways but I think over there it's call Shintoism!
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/01/18 11:08 AM

Originally Posted By: Theo Verelst
looks like a cheaper Montage for some part. Now, who is going to really do something with that, mm?
Me. Not so much because it's cheaper, but because it's lighter. Would have been happy with a Montage if it weren't too heavy for me to gig with.

Originally Posted By: Theo Verelst
something new and cool. Or hot, anything that's interesting and makes clear why the world needed this keyboard?

New and cool/hot usually comes out at the higher prices, that's arguably what the Montage was. That's not the role of the later, cheaper derivative models.

I bet it will sell very well. The world hasn't been heavy with lightweight 7x keyboards, and this looks to be one of the best of them, in its combination of sounds (some of the best samples in any board, plus a great FM synth implementation), and operational feel/ergonomics.

Originally Posted By: mojkarma
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Kronos has the exact same aggravating and easily fixable problem.

Yes, with a few significant advances over the Montage/Modx method.

1. The next/previous buttons work endlessly on the Kronos. That means if you are on the first page with the first 16 slots, you can hit the previous button and see actually the last page of the setlist. This doesn't work on the Montage. If you want to go from page 1 to page 16, you simply have to press the next button sixteen times.

Good point. In fact, on my Kronos, I have my main sounds on Page 1, but my other most used sounds are on pages 2 and 16. Since I spend most of my time on Page 1, I am usually only one screen away from any secondary sound I might need. But there is room along the bottom of the display where they could have provided single-tap direct access to the more distant pages.

Originally Posted By: mojkarma
2. There is IMO another significant advance on the Kronos over the Montage: Kronos has 128 setlists - each setlist containing 128 slots...Those 128 setlists on the Kronos can be dialed directly by entering the number on the numeric keypad.

Ah yes, I came across that tip once before and forgot about it! That could be a really nice way to access different Set List pages... you have pretty quick direct access to 128 "Page Ones."
Posted By: Aidan

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/01/18 12:06 PM

Originally Posted By: Theo Verelst
At first I thought this thread was a fake


That would certainly be news to the keyboard I've had sitting in my studio for the last two weeks.
Posted By: jeffinpghpa

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/01/18 12:21 PM

How would you compare the action of the MODX 7 to the Roland FA-07?
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/01/18 12:58 PM

I suspect if one hated MOXF action (be it the 6 or 8), youíll feel similarly about the comparable MODX model. And you feel similarly about FA-0x, Krome, etc. Not everyone will be satisfied with the mid-range keybed. My general observation is this is more critical for the better/best AP-centric players here. that could be an over-generalization though it would make sense.

ďThe RuleĒ always applies: try and decide - nobody can decide for you.

Interested in the MODX7 vs FA-07 question - there was a lot of buzz that the FA-07 was much improved vs FA-06. I never played either enough to really say.
Posted By: GregC

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/01/18 01:44 PM

Originally Posted By: MotiDave
I sus

Interested in the MODX7 vs FA-07 question -

there was a lot of buzz that the FA-07 was much improved vs FA-06. I never played either enough to really say.


I was buzzing about that. My conclusion- FA-06 had a low budget [ cheap] keybed feel. It was unacceptable. Just the same, some will say its ok.

FA-07 [ which I own] has an acceptable synth style, or light feel keybed. It was an easy decision. [ compared to the 06].
Posted By: Mogut

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/01/18 03:22 PM

Originally Posted By: Aidan

That would certainly be news to the keyboard I've had sitting in my studio for the last two weeks.


Pop the lid! whats the keybed action?
Posted By: zephonic

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/01/18 06:14 PM

I got mine. I have a gig later today, but I wanna be a little more familiar with it before I take it out. I feel like I do need to RTFM for this one.

The GHS feels the same to me, if they tweaked it, it is below my range of perception.

Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/01/18 08:00 PM

Originally Posted By: zephonic
The GHS feels the same to me,

Same as what? MOXF8?
Posted By: Mighty Motif Max

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/01/18 08:07 PM

OT, but wow, those are some big monitors in the background. What model of Adam?


Have to say, the MODX and Montage look cool. Just not for me.
Posted By: zephonic

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/01/18 08:57 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: zephonic
The GHS feels the same to me,

Same as what? MOXF8?


Same as any other GHS I have owned/played.

Originally Posted By: Murky Musty Moth
OT, but wow, those are some big monitors in the background. What model of Adam?


Not ADAM. Itís the HEDD Type 05: http://www.hedd.audio/en/studio-monitors/type05/

Same designer, though, Klaus Heinz. After he left ADAM he founded HEDD with his son Freddy. On top of the HEDDís I have a set of Equator D5ís. Very different type of speaker. They complement each other, in a way.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/01/18 09:14 PM

Originally Posted By: zephonic
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: zephonic
The GHS feels the same to me,

Same as what? MOXF8?


Same as any other GHS I have owned/played.

My psychic abilities have been on the fritz, so I don't know which other GHS you have played. ;-) Personally, I thought my brief experience with the DGX660 GHS last week felt better than the MOX8 and MOXF8 I've played. I don't know the reason. But I'd be happier if the MODX8 felt like that DGX660 rather than the MOX8/MOXF8, even though they are all GHS. That's why I was asking specifically which GHS model(s) you thought the MODX8 felt like. Hopefully some store near me will have one I'll be able to try for myself before long.
Posted By: Mighty Motif Max

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/01/18 09:15 PM

Thank you. My mistake. You can see the design influence.
Posted By: Adan

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/01/18 09:32 PM

Played the MODX6 and MOXF6 next to each other today at GC. Same action, no doubt about it. Those narrow black keys always have me thinking I'll be tripping over them, then they turn out to not be a problem.

Only had a few minutes with it, not enough to delve deeply. Liked the touch screen. It's a great feature on a $1300 keyboard.

Weight, or lack thereof, is important to me. The MODX6 packs a lot into 14 lbs.
Posted By: EscapeRocks

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/02/18 01:12 AM

Yeah. When I had my MOX then MOXF6 I thought maybe the thinner black keys might be an issue.
They werenít. I never had an issue in all the years I gigged with them.

The MODX6 has slowly open the valve on the GAS
Posted By: zephonic

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/02/18 03:28 AM

Originally Posted By: Murky Musty Moth
Thank you. My mistake. You can see the design influence.


Yes, but the HEDDís sound different. I never much liked the ADAMís. In size, my type 05ís are similar to the ADAM A5X, but they are in a different league to my ears. More depth, more low end.
Posted By: GovernorSilver

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/02/18 11:25 AM

Originally Posted By: Adan
Liked the touch screen. It's a great feature on a $1300 keyboard.

Weight, or lack thereof, is important to me. The MODX6 packs a lot into 14 lbs.


Is the touch screen a glass one like on tablets, or a mushy plastic one like the one on the Korg M3 workstations?

The 14lb weight of the MODX6 appeals to me too, as well as the 4-in, 10-out USB audio interface, USB MIDI, and IOS compatibility - will probably be the new main controller for my iPad. Oh and the FM-X appeals too.
Posted By: FJR

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/02/18 09:19 PM

Originally Posted By: GovernorSilver
Originally Posted By: Adan
Liked the touch screen. It's a great feature on a $1300 keyboard.

Weight, or lack thereof, is important to me. The MODX6 packs a lot into 14 lbs.


Is the touch screen a glass one like on tablets, or a mushy plastic one like the one on the Korg M3 workstations?

The 14lb weight of the MODX6 appeals to me too, as well as the 4-in, 10-out USB audio interface, USB MIDI, and IOS compatibility - will probably be the new main controller for my iPad. Oh and the FM-X appeals too.


It's plastic, but I wouldn't call it "mushy". I think know what you mean though, and it's that type of screen. It's pretty firm (of course it is new) but the screen is very responsive. I like it better than the Kronos, as it always responds to light touch.
Posted By: Mogut

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/02/18 09:53 PM

I got to say, these things are pretty accessible. Iíve seen them in every store that Iíve been in the past couple weeks. michigan and toronto area
Posted By: burningbusch

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/02/18 09:59 PM

AFAIK, these screens are all glass.

Triton
https://www.ebay.com/i/253078909012?chn=ps

Kronos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Zbi1g2kync&t=147s

I would be shocked if the Montage/MODX screen was plastic. Plastic would scratch up in a few weeks from constant interaction with fingernails (I always use my fingernails on the Kronos for more precision). I think people assume because some of these screens can give a bit from touch that means they're plastic. I think the difference is how they're attached.

Busch.
Posted By: FJR

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/02/18 10:24 PM

Originally Posted By: burningbusch
AFAIK, these screens are all glass.

Triton
https://www.ebay.com/i/253078909012?chn=ps

Kronos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Zbi1g2kync&t=147s

I would be shocked if the Montage/MODX screen was plastic. Plastic would scratch up in a few weeks from constant interaction with fingernails (I always use my fingernails on the Kronos for more precision). I think people assume because some of these screens can give a bit from touch that means they're plastic. I think the difference is how they're attached.

Busch.


upon closer inspection, I think you are correct. It appears to have a membrane over it that distorts (physically not visually) when you press it. Like a plastic membrane over glass?... Or more accurately like a touch screen monitor.

Sorry if I misspoke, it was just delivered today so not much time with it, yet! (cough cough, feeling like I might be coming down with something tomorrow... cool )
Posted By: FJR

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/02/18 10:46 PM


And also... Thank you Yamaha for the ridge along the back!! I could have used this on bigger, heavier keyboards in the past!

I agree, it would be nice to have the connections printed on the top, though. I'll probably do this at some point.
Posted By: Stokely

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/03/18 12:10 PM

So, I'm hearing on another forum that this might be a fairly big improvement in organ sound compared to past Yamaha offerings? I'm a bit surprised to hear that I guess. Any yeas or nays in that regard?

I'm going to shoot down to Sam Ash and try to check one out. It's a keyboard dead zone but this will be one of the few boards they are likely to have!
Posted By: Synthoid

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/03/18 12:16 PM

I was told our local GC has the 88-key model on the floor. Going to check it out this weekend.
Posted By: GovernorSilver

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/03/18 12:24 PM

Originally Posted By: FJR


upon closer inspection, I think you are correct. It appears to have a membrane over it that distorts (physically not visually) when you press it. Like a plastic membrane over glass?... Or more accurately like a touch screen monitor.

Sorry if I misspoke, it was just delivered today so not much time with it, yet! (cough cough, feeling like I might be coming down with something tomorrow... cool )


Thanks for the report concerning the touchscreen.

The Korg M3 touchscreen does not seem to be easily scratched either, but it has some known, oft-discussed issues, like the responsiveness declining with use, until it eventually doesn't respond at all to touch and/or the M3 screen calibration function no longer works.

Since I never see any threads/posts complaining about the Montage touchscreen I guess the MODX one should be ok.
Posted By: zephonic

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/03/18 01:33 PM

Originally Posted By: Stokely
So, I'm hearing on another forum that this might be a fairly big improvement in organ sound compared to past Yamaha offerings? I'm a bit surprised to hear that I guess. Any yeas or nays in that regard?


I'm not a legit organist by any standard and my experience with the real thing is limited, but yes, the new organs in the MODX feel much better than the Motif stuff.

The "9 Bars!" preset is a lot of fun, makes me question whether I should return the 8 and just get a 7, or better yet, a Montage 7.

Frankly, The MODX is great value, but after a day or so with it, I do understand better why the Montage is worth the extra money.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/03/18 01:47 PM

Originally Posted By: Adan
Played the MODX6 and MOXF6 next to each other today at GC. Same action, no doubt about it.

Actually, Bad Mister posted on the yamaha forum, "The action of the MODX6 and MODX7 is a new, different keybed from that which was found on the MOXF6. " Now, whether there is any more substantial difference than the change from glossy to matte black keys, who knows...

Originally Posted By: Stokely
So, I'm hearing on another forum that this might be a fairly big improvement in organ sound compared to past Yamaha offerings? I'm a bit surprised to hear that I guess. Any yeas or nays in that regard?

I don't know, but "fairly big improvement in organ sound" may not be the highest bar. ;-) Though as I mentioned earlier, I don't totally dismiss rompler organs, the Yamaha S30/S80 had a great patch, and if the MODX has something like that, I'd be very happy! (The key was that model's tube effect, which was not in the Motifs.)
Posted By: Adan

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/03/18 02:13 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: Adan
Played the MODX6 and MOXF6 next to each other today at GC. Same action, no doubt about it.

Actually, Bad Mister posted on the yamaha forum, "The action of the MODX6 and MODX7 is a new, different keybed from that which was found on the MOXF6. " Now, whether there is any more substantial difference than the change from glossy to matte black keys, who knows...


I didn't have much time in GC, but I was definitely interested in testing the action. I went back and forth the MODX and the MOXF. If there's a difference, it wasn't apparent to me.

There is an interesting psychological difference, however. When playing this action on a $600 board, I tend to think, hmm, this is not bad. Playing the same action on a $1300 board I think, hmm, this could be a little better.

Still, I'm considering getting a MODX, and the action is good enough that it doesn't factor heavily into my decision. In other words, it's in the ballpark of what I'd expect for synth-type action in this price range and with these features, and I don't think it would hold be back significantly because I don't expect to be trying maximize my piano or organ technique when using the MODX.

My quick impression is that the organs on the MODX are a significant step up from previous Yamahas (putting the Reface aside). The improvement is enough to put them into the "useable for a non-organ-centric gig" range but, unlike, say, the Kronos, still not within shouting distance of clone quality.
Posted By: Cabo

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/03/18 02:48 PM

I played the MODX8 today. I'm not impressed with the organs -- nowhere near any of the clones. The Leslie sim wasn't good.

I did like the action when playing piano. They also had an MOXF8 and I like the newer action better.

It's very lightweight, and seems to have higher plastic content. Not sure how well it will hold up to constant moving.

One thing really annoys me: there's a huge amount of empty space (on the 88 key version) between the keys and the screen (and buttons / wheels). It's going to make the screen very difficult to see if I have a keyboard above it. Everything is pushed up and further away from the keys.
Posted By: Analogaddict

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/03/18 03:32 PM

I decided to wing it and got me a MODX7. Iíve been looking at the Montage but Iím very happy with my Kronos and couldnít see the need for a full blown workstation, but the MODX7 ticked all the boxes - itís got the envelope follower, vocoder, all the wave ROM and loads of options. And it sounds stellar. So far Iím very happy with using it - Iím NOT a Yamaha fanboy and although Iíve dug the sound in the Motifs the UI has scared me away. This one is different, after just one day Iíve been able to set up splits, assign controllers and sidechain the compressors - itís actually rather easy to use even for me. I think theyíll sell a BOATLOAD of these.
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/03/18 04:04 PM

Originally Posted By: GovernorSilver
Originally Posted By: FJR


upon closer inspection, I think you are correct. It appears to have a membrane over it that distorts (physically not visually) when you press it. Like a plastic membrane over glass?... Or more accurately like a touch screen monitor.

Sorry if I misspoke, it was just delivered today so not much time with it, yet! (cough cough, feeling like I might be coming down with something tomorrow... cool )


Thanks for the report concerning the touchscreen.

The Korg M3 touchscreen does not seem to be easily scratched either, but it has some known, oft-discussed issues, like the responsiveness declining with use, until it eventually doesn't respond at all to touch and/or the M3 screen calibration function no longer works.

Since I never see any threads/posts complaining about the Montage touchscreen I guess the MODX one should be ok.


I imagine touchscreen technology has grown leaps and bounds since M3 was launched in Jan 2007.
Posted By: GovernorSilver

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/03/18 04:23 PM

Originally Posted By: MotiDave
Originally Posted By: GovernorSilver
Originally Posted By: FJR


upon closer inspection, I think you are correct. It appears to have a membrane over it that distorts (physically not visually) when you press it. Like a plastic membrane over glass?... Or more accurately like a touch screen monitor.

Sorry if I misspoke, it was just delivered today so not much time with it, yet! (cough cough, feeling like I might be coming down with something tomorrow... cool )


Thanks for the report concerning the touchscreen.

The Korg M3 touchscreen does not seem to be easily scratched either, but it has some known, oft-discussed issues, like the responsiveness declining with use, until it eventually doesn't respond at all to touch and/or the M3 screen calibration function no longer works.

Since I never see any threads/posts complaining about the Montage touchscreen I guess the MODX one should be ok.


I imagine touchscreen technology has grown leaps and bounds since M3 was launched in Jan 2007.


I imagine it too, but it's better to get real-world reports. This thing may not be anywhere as costly as the new Moog but I still want to research it before dropping my money on it.
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/03/18 04:37 PM

Originally Posted By: GovernorSilver
I imagine it too, but it's better to get real-world reports. This thing may not be anywhere as costly as the new Moog but I still want to research it before dropping my money on it.
no argument here ...
Posted By: GovernorSilver

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/03/18 04:59 PM

Originally Posted By: zephonic
Originally Posted By: Stokely
So, I'm hearing on another forum that this might be a fairly big improvement in organ sound compared to past Yamaha offerings? I'm a bit surprised to hear that I guess. Any yeas or nays in that regard?


I'm not a legit organist by any standard and my experience with the real thing is limited, but yes, the new organs in the MODX feel much better than the Motif stuff.



That's good to hear. I presume by "better feel" you mean how the sounds respond to changes in slider/virtual drawbar settings. Or perhaps they upgraded the Leslie sim?

I've got nothing against rompler organ - the organ patches in my Korg M3 are pretty good to my non-B3-expert ears. It'd be fun though to have somebody like ProfD present when I get around to trying the MODX organs.
Posted By: zephonic

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/03/18 05:42 PM

Originally Posted By: Aidan
Finally got around to downloading the Bosendorfer Ė it's a big improvement on the CFX for my money and definitely worth grabbing while you can. Also downloaded Chick's Mk V and that too is absolutely excellent. A pity that there's not really room for anything else once you have that installed but still, at least I have the option of using MainStage to expand the sonic palette.


Yeah, the Bosie and CC MkV are nice upgrades. Have you tried the Bosie live? I have yet to take it out, and while it sounds great on my studio monitors, something about the frequency response has me suspicious it may not be a good fit for a band.

I have the MODX8 and MX88 side by side now, interesting. The MX88 really punches above its weight when it comes to the AP.
Posted By: jeffinpghpa

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/03/18 06:20 PM

I'm interested in giving the MODX a try at my local store that has the MODX8.

I'm mostly trying to decide if it's worth selling a Roland FA-07 for a MODX7 as a direct replacement as a second tier board and something light to carry around for rehearsals and pickup gigs.
Posted By: Dreamchilde

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/03/18 06:44 PM

Originally Posted By: jeffinpghpa
I'm interested in giving the MODX a try at my local store that has the MODX8.

I'm mostly trying to decide if it's worth selling a Roland FA-07 for a MODX7 as a direct replacement as a second tier board and something light to carry around for rehearsals and pickup gigs.


This is also my quandry, as I don't have either board. But I am looking to upgrade from my MX61.

I checked out the MODX at my local GC. It's...vast. I need to spend more time with it and the FA.
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/03/18 07:07 PM

Originally Posted By: zephonic


I have the MODX8 and MX88 side by side now, interesting. The MX88 really punches above its weight when it comes to the AP.


Could you please tell us some more about the perceived keybed quality of the MODX8 ?
I read over at Gearslutz that itís right up there with the Montage 8 keysí quality.
Also, do you think a 15Ē laptop (MacBook Pro) could easily rest on the right?
Posted By: stoken6

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/03/18 07:26 PM

Originally Posted By: jeffinpghpa
I'm interested in giving the MODX a try at my local store that has the MODX8.

I'm mostly trying to decide if it's worth selling a Roland FA-07 for a MODX7 as a direct replacement as a second tier board and something light to carry around for rehearsals and pickup gigs.


I see them as very different animals. FA has a sequencer, clonewheel and VA - and pads. MODX has the Super Knob and FM (Virtual Digital? No, surely True Digital!). They just simply inhabit the same "76-key midrange lightweight" sector alongside the Korg Krome range.

Cheers, Mike.
Posted By: Sven Golly

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/03/18 07:41 PM

Originally Posted By: Fleer
Could you please tell us some more about the perceived keybed quality of the MODX8 ?
I read over at Gearslutz that itís right up there with the Montage 8 keysí quality.


Where's my facepalm emoji? No, the MODX8 keybed is NOT anywhere near the same as the MONTAGE8 keybed. Why the hell anyone would even think that, given the vastly different price points, is beyond me.

Quote:
Also, do you think a 15Ē laptop (MacBook Pro) could easily rest on the right?


You be the judge:


15Ē MacBook Pro on top of Yamaha MODX8 by Sven Golly, on Flickr
Posted By: The_Star_Guy

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/03/18 08:14 PM

Originally Posted By: zephonic

I'm not a legit organist by any standard and my experience with the real thing is limited, but yes, the new organs in the MODX feel much better than the Motif stuff.

The "9 Bars!" preset is a lot of fun, makes me question whether I should return the 8 and just get a 7, or better yet, a Montage 7.

Frankly, The MODX is great value, but after a day or so with it, I do understand better why the Montage is worth the extra money.



I spent some time with both the MODX6 and the MODX8, and I also thought that several of the ORGAN presets like 'Jazz to All Out 2" and "Gospel to Reggae" were nicely done and made good use of the Super Knob as well. But I am not yet decided on whether to go for the MODX7 or wait and see if the Montage 7 ever gets clearance pricing?
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/03/18 10:01 PM

Originally Posted By: jeffinpghpa
I'm mostly trying to decide if it's worth selling a Roland FA-07 for a MODX7 as a direct replacement
Tough call, esp since you already own the FA-07 which makes it that much more cost-effective. But the obvious things you'd lose would be the drawbar organ engine, the sub out, the trigger pads, the more capable sequencer. Most of the Yamaha sounds should be better at least than their non-SuperNatural Roland equivalents (the other SuperNatural acoustic tones in the FA are piano, EPs, clav, basses, acoustic guitar, ensemble strings, which are areas where Roland could have an edge). In synth sounds, Roland should lead in virtual analog, Yamaha in FM. Seamless sound switching is more extensively implemented in the Yamaha than the Roland (for a change). Action will be subjective, but I expect that the Yamaha will at least be more even front-to-back, which should make it better for pianos. Ability to load custom samples ia a nice Yamaha perk, too.

Originally Posted By: Fleer
Could you please tell us some more about the perceived keybed quality of the MODX8 ? I read over at Gearslutz that itís right up there with the Montage 8 keysí quality.
You can pretty much always find one person who will say anything. Especially at gearslutz. ;-) Seriously, again, actions are subjective, but I bet that will very much be a minority opinion.
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/03/18 10:48 PM

@ Sven Golly: thanks for that photo, I guess a MacBook will be a better fit.
@ AnotherScott: Iím hoping Iíll even prefer the MODX8 action to the Montage 8, at least from a synth playerís perspective.
Posted By: burningbusch

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/03/18 11:56 PM

I'm renting a Montage 8 to do some initial programming and conversions. I think I'm going to have to go with the MODX8 ultimately as the Montage doesn't fit on my main desk.

I was thrilled to find out, after some experimentation, I can get the release samples completely under control. In fact, this is the best I've been able to find with any hardware sampler.

Here's a Wurly 200a example. You should be able to hear the funky "bending" of the notes on release, which IMO, make all the difference in the world with Rhodes, Wurlies, etc. It's a bigger part of the sound than you would think and is a major reason digital hardware emulations of these electro-mechanical keyboards sound unrealistic, again IMO.

Purgatory Creek Soundware 200a - Montage

Busch.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/04/18 12:20 AM

Sounds great, Busch! Will be interesting to see how it "feels" to play from the MODX actions.
Posted By: Mogut

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/04/18 12:48 AM

Originally Posted By: Fleer
Iím hoping Iíll even prefer the MODX8 action to the Montage 8, at least from a synth playerís perspective.


the GHS is an excellent action. I find I prefer it over the Balanced Hammer action as in the motif/montage
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/04/18 01:21 AM

Cheers Mogut, ordered!
Posted By: timwat

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/04/18 02:42 AM

I just demo'd a MODX 8 at my local guitar center for about 30 minutes.

RE: the action - no, it's not like the Montage. And definitely not in the same zip code as the CP4.

That being said, I think it's perfectly acceptable. As one of those who came up having to gig house pianos, I'd say the MODX 8 action is going to work really well for 95% of gigging players out there.

I also have to say because I'm not a Motif / Montage UI guy - yeah the Yamaha UI on the MODX isn't immediately intuitive. YMMV on that one.

What shocked me was the weight of the 88 key version - or should I say the lack thereof. I mean, I gig the Kronos 73 and CP4 on a regular basis. I wasn't expecting the MODX 8 to be soooooo light.

They didn't have the 7 in stock...I wanted to play that too. But being able to put one of those in a case with backpack straps and stroll into call time? Man, that would be sweet.
Posted By: theshinenz

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/04/18 05:32 AM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: jeffinpghpa
I'm mostly trying to decide if it's worth selling a Roland FA-07 for a MODX7 as a direct replacement
Tough call, esp since you already own the FA-07 which makes it that much more cost-effective. But the obvious things you'd lose would be the drawbar organ engine, the sub out, the trigger pads, the sequencer. Most of the Yamaha sounds should be better at least than their non-SuperNatural Roland equivalents (the other SuperNatural acoustic tones in the FA are piano, EPs, clav, basses, acoustic guitar, ensemble strings, which are areas where Roland could have an edge). In synth sounds, Roland should lead in virtual analog, Yamaha in FM. Seamless sound switching is more extensively implemented in the Yamaha than the Roland (for a change). Action will be subjective, but I expect that the Yamaha will at least be more even front-to-back, which should make it better for pianos. Ability to load custom samples ia a nice Yamaha perk, too.

Originally Posted By: Fleer
Could you please tell us some more about the perceived keybed quality of the MODX8 ? I read over at Gearslutz that itís right up there with the Montage 8 keysí quality.
You can pretty much always find one person who will say anything. Especially at gearslutz. ;-) Seriously, again, actions are subjective, but I bet that will very much be a minority opinion.



I've owned the FA07 and Montage.... The yamaha sounds cleaner, especially for FM type sounds. I'd say Yamaha has it over Roland for the EP's, organ sound well i never really used either too much as used KB3 on my kurzweil instead but say they are pretty close.

Where I preferred roland was for synth sounds, especially pads.... the Roland Jupiter type sounds are really fat sounding, when layered they are killer. I always struggled to get the same fatness out of those kind of sounds on the Yamaha. Its really depends on what sounds you use most.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/04/18 09:15 AM

Originally Posted By: theshinenz
[I'd say Yamaha has it over Roland for the EP's, organ sound well i never really used either too much as used KB3 on my kurzweil instead but say they are pretty close.

Despite the advantages of modeling, I have not been too impressed by the Roland SuperNatural EPs or tonewheel organ, myself. Though unlike the MODX, the FA gives you editable levels for all 9 drawbars and an assignable out for easy routing to something like a Ventilator, which should then give it the better organ. Though IIRC, the FA does not have C/V, so even then, there's a tradeoff.
Posted By: Marillo

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/04/18 11:28 AM

I really didn't rate the pianos/EPs in the FA-07 either, compared to Nord. I thought the FA was just average at a lot of things and ultimately unsatisfying as a one-board solution.
Posted By: Synthoid

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/04/18 11:42 AM

Originally Posted By: theshinenz
Where I preferred roland was for synth sounds, especially pads.... the Roland Jupiter type sounds are really fat sounding, when layered they are killer. I always struggled to get the same fatness out of those kind of sounds on the Yamaha.


That's how I feel about the Korg Triton and M3 vs. the Motif XS. Just never got any real wall-shaking synth sounds from the Motif.

I used to laugh whenever someone posted that the Triton was "thin sounding." It can cut through just about anything.

idk
Posted By: stoken6

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/04/18 01:08 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Despite the advantages of modeling, I have not been too impressed by the Roland SuperNatural EPs or tonewheel organ, myself. Though unlike the MODX, the FA gives you editable levels for all 9 drawbars and an assignable out for easy routing to something like a Ventilator, which should then give it the better organ. Though IIRC, the FA does not have C/V, so even then, there's a tradeoff.


The Roland engine does have a "true" percussion in it's model though, doesn't it? I must admit, I seem to hear a "chow" in the sound of Roland's organ, as if there's a bit of envelope-modulated filter sweep on it. Very un-Hammond to my ears.

I liked the Kurzweil KB3 model a lot more.

Cheers, Mike.
Posted By: pjd

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/04/18 02:08 PM

I decided to take the plunge (MODX6). All the usual comments and such are at:

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/yamaha-modx-snap-review/
http://sandsoftwaresound.net/modx-effects-screen-capture/

All the best -- pj
Posted By: echo66

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/04/18 03:07 PM

The Montage 8 is main gigging board and also my main studio boad. I switched my gigging board from my Krono2 88 a year and 1/2 ago because I find the Montage a nicer instrument. I move it around alot. ugh.

I got my MODX8 on Monday as a rehearsal and possible live board. I loaded in my samples and live sets from the Montage and everything is there - pretty cool. Of course there's some work-arounds with controllers.

I've done some track recording comparisons between the 2 and they sound almost the same kind of. The Montage is cleaner and richer sounding.

The action - The Montage 8 action is far more expressive and playable. It's not lighter in action but easier to play. The fulcrum of the keys for one goes further back in the Montage - makes a big difference. Being used to the Montage, at this point I find the MODX8 action fatiguing.

It's no Montage - Cool board tho, nice and light and capable. I will enjoying taking it to rehearsals/jams.

I am going to use it at my next gig, and I'll see how it goes if I can perform on it to my satisfaction.

Cheers.
Posted By: Stokely

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/04/18 04:01 PM

Played one today at Guitar Center. They had the weighted one set up at a little station with two monitors.

It sounded much more "realistic" that my original Motif I had; I was expecting the clavs and EPs to sound about the same but they sounded much better to me on the modx. Granted, I would have liked to hear the Motif sounds through the same speakers, which were in stereo also (I'd have to test everything in mono for live use).

The organ did sound better and the leslie was better than my old Motif, but as my buddy said who was there: "it ain't going to replace the electro" (he has an electro 5). The faders for drawbars go UP to increase the level of that drawbar, which I expect would drive many of us crazy. The super-knob or whatever you called it increased distortion on one organ patch, and changed timbre on another...guess that's programmable (as the fader direction probably is). The distortion didn't sound as good as the Roland engine distortion to me.

The weighted keys felt about the same as the Moxf8 they had there, and not as good as the Montage they had there, which is to be expected.

It was VERY light for a weighted 88, almost shockingly so. The width was good, but it was pretty darn deep if that matters for anyone.

Personally, with my eyesight as it is and my dislike of touchscreens (especially when your hand gets a bit sweaty)...I would rather just have plain text and buttons/knobs, but I expect I'm in the minority.
Posted By: FJR

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/04/18 04:06 PM


I know we're never happy, but I wish I had the extra 2 outs, extra FM polyphony, and extra insert FX (extra SSS), in the lightweight MODX. I would have paid for those!
Posted By: GovernorSilver

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/05/18 12:28 PM

Originally Posted By: Synthoid
Originally Posted By: theshinenz
Where I preferred roland was for synth sounds, especially pads.... the Roland Jupiter type sounds are really fat sounding, when layered they are killer. I always struggled to get the same fatness out of those kind of sounds on the Yamaha.


That's how I feel about the Korg Triton and M3 vs. the Motif XS. Just never got any real wall-shaking synth sounds from the Motif.

I used to laugh whenever someone posted that the Triton was "thin sounding." It can cut through just about anything.

idk


In the guitar world, "thin"and "cutting through" usually goes hand in hand. Classic example is the Les Paul that gets buried in the mix because of the very same "warmth" that people love about it; whereas the "ice pick" Strat cuts through the mix.

That said, when I used my M3 at band rehearsal, I sometimes got complaints for the M3 bass frequencies or some other thing dominating too much, despite two loud rock and roll guitarists in the room, plus a hard-hitting drummer with Yamaha's "loudest in the world" model snare, and a trigger on his kick to trigger the 808-style kick sound on his Electribe.
Posted By: GovernorSilver

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/05/18 12:34 PM

Originally Posted By: FJR

I know we're never happy, but I wish I had the extra 2 outs, extra FM polyphony, and extra insert FX (extra SSS), in the lightweight MODX. I would have paid for those!





But not pay enough for a Montage? smile
Posted By: FJR

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/05/18 12:47 PM

Originally Posted By: GovernorSilver
Originally Posted By: FJR

I know we're never happy, but I wish I had the extra 2 outs, extra FM polyphony, and extra insert FX (extra SSS), in the lightweight MODX. I would have paid for those!





But not pay enough for a Montage? smile



Too big and heavy!! The size and weight helped push me over the edge.

And although they might be convenient, I don't need the extra buttons on the right. Their absence creates space for my Laptop/tablet. wink
Posted By: Synthoid

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/05/18 01:37 PM

Originally Posted By: GovernorSilver
when I used my M3 at band rehearsal, I sometimes got complaints for the M3 bass frequencies or some other thing dominating too much


I've received similar comments about both my Triton and M3 from various band members in the past.

One guitarist told me my Triton sounded like a jet landing. laugh
Posted By: GovernorSilver

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/05/18 02:04 PM

Originally Posted By: Synthoid
Originally Posted By: GovernorSilver
when I used my M3 at band rehearsal, I sometimes got complaints for the M3 bass frequencies or some other thing dominating too much


I've received similar comments about both my Triton and M3 from various band members in the past.

One guitarist told me my Triton sounded like a jet landing. laugh



cool

Those Korg models sure have hot output levels. I don't have other synths that run as hot. Maybe the Moog Voyager I used to have. Most of my other synths are meek in comparison.
Posted By: GovernorSilver

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/05/18 02:51 PM

This should give an idea of what the workflow might be like:

Posted By: Legatoboy

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/05/18 05:04 PM

Just tried a MODX 8 at GC...plays much better than the MX-88 did with the GHS. I think it's the sound engine itself in that regard. Was not bad..I jumped back and forth between that an Montage 88 they had out...of course that was superior but the way the GHS is implemented in the MODX was not bad at all with that Montage sound engine...responded much better, still a tad shallow but it seemed much less so. The marriage of the keybeds to the various sound engines and how the engines responds is the key obviously!


Nice ax for the dough...just bought an SP6 and happy with it so far.. I'm also a little bored with Yamaha's....I've had so many... just time for me to change things up I guess! Still keeping my CP-50! The piano is better in the MODX of course than the CP50.
Posted By: Bobby Simons

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/05/18 08:16 PM

Originally Posted By: Legatoboy
Just tried a MODX 8 at GC...

Commack store?
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/05/18 08:49 PM

IIRC the piano libraries in the Nord Piano weigh 1 GB all together.
This would be less than the CFX grand in the MODX.
Even the BŲsendorfer weighs almost half a gig.
Posted By: Mogut

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/05/18 09:37 PM

Originally Posted By: GovernorSilver
This should give an idea of what the workflow might be like:


cool shirt!
Posted By: zephonic

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/05/18 11:42 PM

Tonightís my MODX8ís maiden voyage and while the gig hasnít started yet, I can already say that the positioning of the volume knob is sub-optimal in a two-tier setup.

I like to have the top-tier board pretty close to the bottom-tier, but now I had to raise it by ~2Ē just to be able to get to the volume knob of the MODX. Even so, the knob is still outside my normal line of sight, and the other two knobs (AD in/USB in) get in the way, too.

Operating the touch display also requires the top board to be higher up. Weíll see how it goes tonight.

Another thing, like the MX88, the MODX8 seems to have lower output than the Krome. I donít remember that from my Nord or Fantom. Is that a Yamaha thing then?

Posted By: KeyMoe

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/06/18 12:14 AM

Well I finally received my Fedex tracking number and it should be here Wednesday.

I am also concerned about the location of the volume knob with my setup. I use a 3 tier Stay keyboard stand with the boards very close together. I may end up residing to using a volume pedal. I donít believe I can deal with reaching under the middle board. I already have to do that for the middle board for the same reason.

Not sure about the screen yet. Maybe I can pull the keyboard a bit forward to have visibility. We will see on Wednesday.
Posted By: Music*aL

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/06/18 12:27 AM

Second test drive at GC tonight. The MODX8 was set up with a stereo set of near fields (Yamahas I believe).

One of the first things I did was disconnect one of the audio outs to one of the speakers so that I could audition it in mono, as I've decided a long time ago to play my live gigs in mono. WoW!!! The liveliness of the patches was sucked right out. In stereo, all the patches (I'm most interested in acoustic and electric pianos) have this wonderful depth about them. In mono, the sounds are one dimensional and no better sounding to me than the MOXF 8 I recently sold. Hmmmmm. Makes the board less interesting to me.

Still, it's a wonderful board with all the Yamaha bread and butter sounds and the DX stuff is just pristine sounding (if you're into that). Overall, it's a very nice board, and a fairly big sonic step up from the MOFX.
Posted By: Legatoboy

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/06/18 08:33 AM

Yes Commack store, they have a MODX 6 out when you walk into the keyboard dept, and the MODX 8 in the back room behind the Montage..all with powered monitors Bobby
Originally Posted By: Bobby Simons
Originally Posted By: Legatoboy
Just tried a MODX 8 at GC...

Commack store?
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/06/18 09:54 AM

Originally Posted By: Marillo
I really didn't rate the pianos/EPs in the FA-07 either, compared to Nord.
I agree, Nord's got the better pianos/EPs (and organ).

Originally Posted By: Marillo
I thought the FA was just average at a lot of things and ultimately unsatisfying as a one-board solution.
Understandable. Apart from a handful of SuperNatural ones, all of its stock acoustic instrument sounds are quite old at this point, and mostly unexceptional... though there are some gems in the slightly newer SRX-based expansions. And I agree, even some of its SN instruments (EPs, organ) aren't so impressive. Personally, I'm not a big fan of the SN piano either, but a lot of people do like it. (Roland's piano dynamics generally seem exaggerated to me... i.e. forte gets too bright relative to the quieter playing.) Anyway, to me, the FA is more about the feature set than the sounds... a lot of capability and decent interface/ergonomics in a lightweight, well-priced 76. And it's still a good board for many things, though I think its share will be reduced by pressure from the MODX7 on one side, and their own DS76 on the other.
Posted By: Stokely

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/06/18 09:58 AM

I had more issues with mono from my Motif classic than any other board I've owned, which admittedly isn't all that many. All the others just needed a bit of tweaking (pc3 leslie for example I reduce the stereo spread as it sounded like tremolo in mono)...but a lot of patches, especially synth, just hollowed completely out on the Motif. That is usually mostly the fault of the effects in my experience.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/06/18 10:19 AM

Originally Posted By: Stokely
a lot of patches, especially synth, just hollowed completely out on the Motif. That is usually mostly the fault of the effects in my experience.

That makes sense... synth sounds are typically mono, any stereo-ness comes from the fx (or by panning multiple mono sounds to different locations).
Posted By: FJR

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/06/18 11:13 AM

Originally Posted By: zephonic

Another thing, like the MX88, the MODX8 seems to have lower output than the Krome. I donít remember that from my Nord or Fantom. Is that a Yamaha thing then?



Yes! This has been my experience since the Motif XS. And it seems like its been getting weaker with every board after that. I used to get a kick out of hearing the explanation from Yamaha reps on why musically it was "correct", in an incorrect world! cool

They must be listening to the complaints tho, because I notice that there's now a +12db gain setting on the output. Its 0 by default, so you have to set it. Yay, no more "can you give me more signal?" from the sound guys!
Posted By: FJR

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/06/18 11:17 AM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: Stokely
a lot of patches, especially synth, just hollowed completely out on the Motif. That is usually mostly the fault of the effects in my experience.

That makes sense... synth sounds are typically mono, any stereo-ness comes from the fx (or by panning multiple mono sounds to different locations).


On my MOXF I have edited a number of sounds to use mono elements, and mono fx (when avail), to remedy this a bit. It really helped the piano sounds, but they're never as good as you get with the stereo-in-the-headphones sounds...
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/06/18 08:45 PM

Looking at MODX prices in comparison to MOXF (at launch):

MOXF6 $1499 list $1199 street
MOXF8 $1999 list $1699 street

MODX6 $1649 list $1299 street
MODX8 $2399 list $1899 street
Posted By: Mogut

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/06/18 11:48 PM



Originally Posted By: Fleer
Looking at MODX prices in comparison to MOXF (at launch):

MOXF6 $1499 list $1199 street
MOXF8 $1999 list $1699 street

MODX6 $1649 list $1299 street
MODX8 $2399 list $1899 street


and i saw a new moxf8 selling for 1299$ at a GC in detroit area
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/06/18 11:52 PM

The price difference between MODX6 and MODX8 seems much higher in the US and Australia than in Europe and the UK.
Posted By: benj2017

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/07/18 11:01 AM

Originally Posted By: FJR
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
[quote=Stokely]a lot of patches, especially synth, just hollowed completely out on the Motif. That is usually mostly the fault of the effects in my experience.

That makes sense... synth sounds are typically mono, any stereo-ness comes from the fx (or by panning multiple mono sounds to different locations).


I can confirm this, and it is definitely due to stereo fx, but also can be attributed to the Voice Elements for synths, strings, and some pianos being panned left or right to some degree.

When I'm editing User Voices on my MOXF or MOX, I always collapse everything to mono because that is how I use those boards. I leave everything in stereo for my XF8 as that is my home studio board.

It is really easy to edit Elements and FX with the Melas tools, but it is kind of a pain when you have to menu dive using the front screen. If you don't understand the Yamaha architecture, it can be extremely frustrating and time consuming.

Getting the Melas tools is huge IMO, as it makes everything more intuitive...
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/07/18 11:35 AM

Anyone trying out molded hard cases for MODX7 yet? SW ďis recommendingĒ GTSA-KEY88SL. That seems like a ridiculously oversized recommendation to me so i asked if they actually tried it in cases. No - they so far donít have enough stock to test fit out on different cases.

(Need TSA case for air travel)
Posted By: GovernorSilver

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/07/18 05:16 PM

Originally Posted By: benj2017
Originally Posted By: FJR
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
[quote=Stokely]a lot of patches, especially synth, just hollowed completely out on the Motif. That is usually mostly the fault of the effects in my experience.

That makes sense... synth sounds are typically mono, any stereo-ness comes from the fx (or by panning multiple mono sounds to different locations).


I can confirm this, and it is definitely due to stereo fx, but also can be attributed to the Voice Elements for synths, strings, and some pianos being panned left or right to some degree.

When I'm editing User Voices on my MOXF or MOX, I always collapse everything to mono because that is how I use those boards. I leave everything in stereo for my XF8 as that is my home studio board.

It is really easy to edit Elements and FX with the Melas tools, but it is kind of a pain when you have to menu dive using the front screen. If you don't understand the Yamaha architecture, it can be extremely frustrating and time consuming.

Getting the Melas tools is huge IMO, as it makes everything more intuitive...



Are you talking about this?

http://www.jmelas.gr/montage/products.php

I read about how you have to adjust 6 parameters per Element if you want to change the filter sound for the Element - sounds painful.

Is Melas' software suitable for FM-X patching too, or mainly edits/storage at the Performance level?
Posted By: benj2017

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/07/18 05:33 PM

Yeah, those tools are worth the money for the time they save you.

On the Motif series keyboards it depends on how you edit the filter cutoff and whether you want to adjust touch sensitivity, key tracking, etc. This is where it gets complicated as you can adjust the Voice's filter cutoff or each individual element's cutoff. However, if you import the edited Voice into Mix or Performance modes, some of the Voice edits don't carry over, so it gets confusing.

Once you get it though, the complexity pays off as it gives multiple ways to approach different musical/MIDI/production type issues.

The setup on the Montage and MODX is a lot easier to manage though, and John Melas has tools for both of those as well. Not sure about FM-X editing capability...
Posted By: GovernorSilver

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/07/18 05:56 PM

Thanks, was wondering if it's the same editor mentioned in Elektronauts:

Quote:
There is an amazing software FMX Editor that the Yamaha engineers and sound designers use --not released to the public as it has features that will be later implemented in the hardware. Richard Devine programed his FMX presets with that editor .


Well, I guess the answer could be no, because of the phrase "not released to the public". Unless the other person doesn't know about Melas.
Posted By: jahfume

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/07/18 06:02 PM


"I read about how you have to adjust 6 parameters per Element if you want to change the filter sound for the Element - sounds painful."

Especially as each sound can have 8 elements!

The John Melas program packs cost 65, 85 or 125 euros for all programs. So if Kurzweil can give away a computer editor for free I would have thought Yamaha could afford to do the same - No?
Posted By: benj2017

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/07/18 06:18 PM

There is one, the Melas tools just blow everything else out of the water.

I don't know about Kurzweil, but the free Roland editor I used was about as good as the stock Yamaha one, but comparatively the entire suite of Melas tools (only for Yamaha) offer more in the way of managing workflow and also help to intuitively grasp the layout of the keyboard architecture.
Posted By: jahfume

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/07/18 07:35 PM

Good to know its worth the asking price.

If I get a MODX I'm gonna fist rely on Bad Mister's wisdom to hip me to its architecture. That wizard been working for Yamaha since the original Motif came out.

...then I'll end up shelling out for the Melas tools. smirk
Posted By: Mogut

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/07/18 09:35 PM

Originally Posted By: jahfume
Good to know its worth the asking price.

If I get a MODX I'm gonna fist rely on Bad Mister's wisdom to hip me to its architecture. That wizard been working for Yamaha since the original Motif came out.

...then I'll end up shelling out for the Melas tools. smirk


Havenít seen any videos with him and the modx. Patiently waiting
Posted By: miden

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/07/18 09:57 PM

Originally Posted By: GovernorSilver
..............
Is Melas' software suitable for FM-X patching too, or mainly edits/storage at the Performance level?


Yep. You click on the number of the part and it opens the AWM Editor which allows direct editing of the eight AWM elements, and/or the FM editor (if it's an FM part) that allows direct editing of the eight FM-X operators.





So you can do your sound and efx tweaks as well as common tweaks then back out of all of that them simply store it all to a new location (or over-write the existing).

The Melas tools are really a must-have imo.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/07/18 10:02 PM

Originally Posted By: Cabo
I played the MODX8 today...They also had an MOXF8 and I like the newer action better.

I got a chance to play the MODX8 next to the DGX660 in a store (I mentioned earlier in the thread that I was surprised to think the DGX660 in the store felt better than my MOXF). They did not feel identical to me. I preferred the feel of the DGX, but of course, these things are subjective and someone might prefer the MODX. But to me the DGX felt a little lighter/quicker, a little "snappier" if you will. This was not due to different velocity curves or the presence of the vibrations of the built-in speakers, as I did this comparison with no sound. Though I would not say this necessarily means the actions are different... the MODX had just been on display for a matter of days, the DGX could have been there a year for all I know, and it could feel different after a lot of in-store playing. But while I didn't have the chance to compare them directly, the MODX8 did remind me of my MOXF8, more than the DGX did. If it's not the same, it at least seems pretty close to me. (But maybe some of us have experience with different feeling MOXF8s, who knows?)

Originally Posted By: Cabo
IOne thing really annoys me: there's a huge amount of empty space (on the 88 key version) between the keys and the screen (and buttons / wheels). It's going to make the screen very difficult to see if I have a keyboard above it. Everything is pushed up and further away from the keys.

Yes, this bothered me too. There may well be a very good reason it had to be done this way, but regardless, I don't like how far away it will push a second tier board.

I had been trying to decide between a MODX8 and a MODX7 (with a small outside chance I might have considered getting both)... the combination of both of those things has put me firmly in the MODX7 camp. But I'll be really curious to see how piano plays from that semi-weighted action, to see whether I would ever consider using it as a "bottom" or solo board, or only as a top.
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/07/18 10:16 PM

I picked the MODX8 because of the lighter GHS action, the ample space for a laptop (thanks again for that photo, Mogut) and the fact that the European price difference between the MODX7 and MODX8 is much less than in the US
Posted By: Mogut

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/07/18 10:31 PM

Originally Posted By: Fleer
I picked the MODX8 because of the lighter GHS action, the ample space for a laptop (thanks again for that photo, Mogut) and the fact that the European price difference between the MODX7 and MODX8 is much less than in the US


wasnít me who posted any pic idk
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/07/18 10:41 PM

Originally Posted By: Mogut
Originally Posted By: Fleer
I picked the MODX8 because of the lighter GHS action, the ample space for a laptop (thanks again for that photo, Mogut) and the fact that the European price difference between the MODX7 and MODX8 is much less than in the US


wasnít me who posted any pic idk

True. I meant Sven Golly coffee
Posted By: High Diving Act

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/08/18 12:21 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: Cabo
I played the MODX8 today...They also had an MOXF8 and I like the newer action better.

I got a chance to play the MODX8 next to the DGX660 in a store (I mentioned earlier in the thread that I was surprised to think the DGX660 in the store felt better than my MOXF). They did not feel identical to me. I preferred the feel of the DGX, but of course, these things are subjective and someone might prefer the MODX. But to me the DGX felt a little lighter/quicker, a little "snappier" if you will. This was not due to different velocity curves or the presence of the vibrations of the built-in speakers, as I did this comparison with no sound. Though I would not say this necessarily means the actions are different... the MODX had just been on display for a matter of days, the DGX could have been there a year for all I know, and it could feel different after a lot of in-store playing. But while I didn't have the chance to compare them directly, the MODX8 did remind me of my MOXF8, more than the DGX did. If it's not the same, it at least seems pretty close to me. (But maybe some of us have experience with different feeling MOXF8s, who knows?)

Originally Posted By: Cabo
IOne thing really annoys me: there's a huge amount of empty space (on the 88 key version) between the keys and the screen (and buttons / wheels). It's going to make the screen very difficult to see if I have a keyboard above it. Everything is pushed up and further away from the keys.

Yes, this bothered me too. There may well be a very good reason it had to be done this way, but regardless, I don't like how far away it will push a second tier board.

I had been trying to decide between a MODX8 and a MODX7 (with a small outside chance I might have considered getting both)... the combination of both of those things has put me firmly in the MODX7 camp. But I'll be really curious to see how piano plays from that semi-weighted action, to see whether I would ever consider using it as a "bottom" or solo board, or only as a top.

Scott.. I have been messing around with my MODX7 for a little over a week now. It took about 2 days before I had acclimitized to the action but now I'm good. I was unsatisfied with how the stock pianos played.. kinda bummed me out a bit. I contacted Wojtek Olszak and he sent me a link to his soundpack. The piano he created plays really well and to my liking. The velocity settings he used in different zones of the board made it much easier to play expressively on the synth action. I highly recomend getting his sound pack.. he did a great Mark V in there too.
Posted By: zephonic

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/08/18 01:51 PM

My observations after the first weekend of gigs with MODX:

* The positioning of the volume knobs is an ergonomic fail. Whoever greenlighted that doesn't use a two-tier setup. To me, this is the instrument's largest flaw. Not only are they too far back, they are also too close together. Why on Earth they removed the excellent faders of the MOXF is beyond me.

* The low output has been remedied somewhat by the +6dB setting, but it's still not as hot as the Krome. Think I'll try the +12dB on the next gig. Makes you wonder if Yamaha uses -12dBFS as their nominal peak level? That makes sense, as it is practically gospel in engineering circles.

* The BŲsendorfer sounded great in the studio, but got drowned out on the friday gig. Adjusting EQ (roll off LF) and reverb helped it shine on saturday. I really like this piano now, it is warm and bright at the same time. Normally, I need a natural and a bright piano patch in a band context, but the Bosie does both. Also, it has way more volume than the other AP's, somehow.

* When in doubt, there is all the old Motif stuff to get you through the gig! This is actually great if you need to hit the ground running.
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/08/18 02:00 PM

Originally Posted By: zephonic
My observations after the first weekend of gigs with MODX:

* The positioning of the volume knobs is an ergonomic fail. Whoever greenlighted that doesn't use a two-tier setup. To me, this is the instrument's largest flaw. Not only are they too far back, they are also too close together. Why on Earth they removed the excellent faders of the MOXF is beyond me.

* The low output has been remedied somewhat by the +6dB setting, but it's still not as hot as the Krome. Think I'll try the +12dB on the next gig. Makes you wonder if Yamaha uses -12dBFS as their nominal peak level? That makes sense, as it is practically gospel in engineering circles.

* The BŲsendorfer sounded great in the studio, but got drowned out on the friday gig. Adjusting EQ (roll off LF) and reverb helped it shine on saturday. I really like this piano now, it is warm and bright at the same time. Normally, I need a natural and a bright piano patch in a band context, but the Bosie does both. Also, it has way more volume than the other AP's, somehow.

* When in doubt, there is all the old Motif stuff to get you through the gig! This is actually great if you need to hit the ground running.

this is how Yammy locks me in ... lol. I'm a lazy part-ime gigger with an unrelated full time life. I'm about to pull the trigger ...
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/08/18 02:02 PM

Originally Posted By: High Diving Act
I contacted Wojtek Olszak and he sent me a link to his soundpack. The piano he created plays really well and to my liking. The velocity settings he used in different zones of the board made it much easier to play expressively on the synth action. I highly recomend getting his sound pack.. he did a great Mark V in there too.
Thanks for the lead, Jay!
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/08/18 02:39 PM

Played the MODX8 today and compared its action to the others.
Sweet keybed, light and silent, ideal for piano as well as synth patches.
Also compared it to the Kronos (88) and preferred the former to the latter (being less light at play).
The other actions are somewhat flimsy, but the boards are light.
The MODX8 feels very sturdy.
Posted By: Stokely

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/08/18 03:45 PM

Originally Posted By: zephonic
... Why on Earth they removed the excellent faders of the MOXF is beyond me.



This drives me nuts. Manufacturers come up with something that works well, you'd think it would be easier to just re-use that something rather than reinvent something else. I see it at work with the front-end software designers, the mentality seems to be that everything new is always better....irritating.

Even if they can't physically reuse the part, they could recognize a good ergonomic element and fold it into the newer product.

Makes you wonder if they bother to get any feedback whatsoever from the users of the product, then bother to take action (or not) based on that feedback...
Posted By: LX88

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/08/18 04:18 PM

I had a chance to play the MODX yesterday.

I basically went through most of the acoustic and electric pianos and organs.

Yamaha STILL doesn't get organs, do they? Roland and Korg and of course Nord are miles ahead of Yamaha in this regard.

When the acoustic piano page is called up, I saw mostly CFX variations. So the main CFX ( says CFX and FM?) sounds pretty good but it was nothing earth shattering. In many ways it sounds like previous samples that Yamaha already has out.

There is less plunkiness in the MODX CFX mid range than I recall hearing from the MOFX or MX88. But it didn't make me absolutely have to have it. It also made me re evaluate the
"Glasgow" sample from the MX88 that I like quite a bit, since I was able to A/B the MODX and MX88 side by side.

The Rhodes are also quite good overall . Some of them had me wishing for a fatter sound with less bark at high velocity . The "Quick to bark" factor has been an issue with Yamaha Rhodes which has caused me not to want or have to upgrade from my Roland RD300GX as a go - to Rhodes.

I though the Wurli was very authentic. It is a step up from Motif/ MX88 etc.etc.

The action was OK. I have had issues with plastic key beakage and noise from Yamaha action in the past.

Overall though I am a Yamaha fan. I recently acquired a like new Yamaha P-85 and am surprised by how much I like it.

I am just not hearing a tremendous difference in this over previous models. Perhaps it amplifies well. And I have only heard this once, and briefly.

It did not make me leave the store thinking I had to have it.

It did make me go home and appreciate my Roland RD300GX and Yamaha P-85 and the money in the bank I am not having to let go of.

I also drive older cars too. So there you have it.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/08/18 04:40 PM

Originally Posted By: LX88
Yamaha STILL doesn't get organs, do they? Roland and Korg and of course Nord are miles ahead of Yamaha in this regard.

...because Roland, Korg, and Nord have separate clonewheel engines in some models, while Yamaha's organs are still straight sample playback. To flip it around, Yamaha has a real FM engine in the MODX, whereas most other boards play samples of FM sounds and aren't as good. (I think Kronos is the only board with a clonewheel engine and an FM engine, though Nord Stage models do have some FM capabilities). If you compare the MODX to other sample-focussed boards that do NOT have separate clonewheel engines (Korg Kross/Krome, Roland Juno DS), Yamaha's organs are probably competitive. But bottom line, yeah, Yamaha is not likely to be your first choice if organ is a priority.

Originally Posted By: LX88
IThe Rhodes are also quite good overall . Some of them had me wishing for a fatter sound with less bark at high velocity . The "Quick to bark" factor has been an issue with Yamaha Rhodes which has caused me not to want or have to upgrade from my Roland RD300GX as a go - to Rhodes.

The wimpy bark is some of what has turned me off to a lot of Roland EPs. Different strokes...
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/08/18 04:45 PM

I'm picking my MODX7 up after work - traffic and schedule permitting. Sorry to twang my one note as I seem rather lonely in this passionate pursuit:

Why has acquired a case for MODX7:
- yammaha MODX7 gig bag
- other gig bag (e.g. Gator, other - which?)
- rigid case - TSA approved latches

Thoughts, recommendations? I think I may get both a TSA worthy molded case and a gig bag both so all sides of the equation (short of plywood flight case) are very welcome
Posted By: GovernorSilver

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/08/18 05:34 PM

Originally Posted By: LX88


Yamaha STILL doesn't get organs, do they? Roland and Korg and of course Nord are miles ahead of Yamaha in this regard.


They've decided to focus on this kind of organ instead. I've been told it sells very well in Asia, that's why it's been in production until the present day. We don't hear about them in the US for whatever reason.

https://asia-latinamerica-mea.yamaha.com...tone/index.html

I think this is their top of the line Electone - it has VA and "Organ" engines in addition to AWM, and "horizontal touch" keyboard:
https://asia-latinamerica-mea.yamaha.com...ml#product-tabs
Posted By: zephonic

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/08/18 06:39 PM

Originally Posted By: Stokely
Originally Posted By: zephonic
... Why on Earth they removed the excellent faders of the MOXF is beyond me.



This drives me nuts. Manufacturers come up with something that works well, you'd think it would be easier to just re-use that something rather than reinvent something else. I see it at work with the front-end software designers, the mentality seems to be that everything new is always better....irritating.

Even if they can't physically reuse the part, they could recognize a good ergonomic element and fold it into the newer product.

Makes you wonder if they bother to get any feedback whatsoever from the users of the product, then bother to take action (or not) based on that feedback...



It's like Apple removing the switch on the iPad. On the older iPads you could change and lock orientation with the hardware switch, one action, easy as pie.

With the newer models, you have to swipe up from the bottom to get to the control center, unlock orientation, get out of control center, reposition your iPad, swipe up for control center, and lock orientation.
That's five or six actions (depending on how you count), just to change orientation and lock it.

Why the boffins at Apple think this is the superior solution to a function I use countless times a day, I really don't know...
Posted By: Synthoid

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/08/18 06:54 PM

Originally Posted By: zephonic
Why the boffins at Apple think this is the superior solution to a function I use countless times a day, I really don't know...


They enjoy removing features, jacks and ports.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/08/18 08:30 PM

Originally Posted By: LX88
I Yamaha STILL doesn't get organs, do they?

Picking up from the previous comment... I noticed that the Montage had an upgrade a while back that included organ improvement (still not a full clonewheel engine), and I assume that made it into the MODX as well... Here's what they said about it:

Quote:
New Rotary Speaker Effect with New Organ Performances - If youíre an organ player, youíve got to check out MONTAGE OS v1.51:

MONTAGE OS 1.5 Organ Performances

The new rotary speaker effect features authentic ďrotorĒ simulation with assignable speed up/slow down. The new effect has improved overdrive behavior for a warm, full vintage sound. The new Performances feature the new rotary speaker along with drawbar control via the MONTAGE faders.

Check out some of the Organ Performances featuring the new Rotary Speaker effect below:

The Basics (Blues with Walking Bass, Arched Top and Real Brushes Kit)
888862200_2
Foolish Organ
Rock Hard

So for those who say the Yamaha organs are still the Yamaha organs, I think it's worth being sure you're checking out the newest programs, because the old Motif series ones are probably still there too, and they probably do sound just the same as they always did.
Posted By: High Diving Act

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/08/18 11:13 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: LX88
I Yamaha STILL doesn't get organs, do they?

Picking up from the previous comment... I noticed that the Montage had an upgrade a while back that included organ improvement (still not a full clonewheel engine), and I assume that made it into the MODX as well... Here's what they said about it:

Quote:
New Rotary Speaker Effect with New Organ Performances - If youíre an organ player, youíve got to check out MONTAGE OS v1.51:

MONTAGE OS 1.5 Organ Performances

The new rotary speaker effect features authentic ďrotorĒ simulation with assignable speed up/slow down. The new effect has improved overdrive behavior for a warm, full vintage sound. The new Performances feature the new rotary speaker along with drawbar control via the MONTAGE faders.

Check out some of the Organ Performances featuring the new Rotary Speaker effect below:

The Basics (Blues with Walking Bass, Arched Top and Real Brushes Kit)
888862200_2
Foolish Organ
Rock Hard

So for those who say the Yamaha organs are still the Yamaha organs, I think it's worth being sure you're checking out the newest programs, because the old Motif series ones are probably still there too, and they probably do sound just the same as they always did.


The organs in the modx are the updated montage versions. The rotary is much better than before... I think its even better now than the rotary sim on the juno/jupiter/fa lines. I have a stage 3 for my organs so... not something I would use a bunch but they are usable enough in a pinch. I think the new yammy organs will sound great through a vent or similar.
Posted By: High Diving Act

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/08/18 11:22 PM

While I have always liked Yamaha, it was never my "go to" brand because I didn't find the UI very friendly. After spending a week with my MODX7, I am now staring to fly around the os structure and edits. I am reprogramming patches for my next show and I am very happy with the outcome! I may officially be a convert!
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/09/18 12:19 AM

I get you. Up until (and including) the MOXF I found the Yamaha GUI and knobfest somewhat unwelcoming. Then the Montage came and I liked that one (apart from its price). I find the MODX even better looking and love the fact they did away with those right side buttons.
In fact, the MODX8 is almost the exact same size of the MOXF8, but so much nicer to look at and use. Plus that amazing space for a laptop. Never thought Iíd consider such a thing important until now. If you put your keyboard on a stand, there normally is no space left for your DAW. Now there is. A streak of Yamaha genius, whoíd have thought.
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/09/18 01:12 AM

Just unpacked my MODX7 and turned it on. Wow, a lot of sonic power. Wandered around a bit with no particular intent to go anywhere. its an upgrade from XF/MOXF imo. Pianos, EPS, strings, etc - they all sound better to me. played with a lot of motion control preset performances, this thing will do a lot - a lot that i wonít ever do but the occasional special lil add - this will be nice.

I like it - iím going to need to load my current board library to get up and running for current gigs, and i can switch out old patches with new ones as Iím able to. First thing Iíll do is switch out pianos I was using for these on the Bowie set. The CFX piano is nicer than any on MOXF/XF. Will try the Bosendorf pianos - how much flash does that library take up?

What other 3rd party libraries have Montage or new MODX users found great? anyone try the B3 libraries out there?

I got the ďmanagerís friendĒ deal too ... iím stoked.
Posted By: miden

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/09/18 01:17 AM

Originally Posted By: MotiDave
Just unpacked my MODX7 and turned it on. Wow, a lot of sonic power. Wandered around a bit with no particular intent to go anywhere. its an upgrade from XF/MOXF imo. Pianos, EPS, strings, etc - they all sound better to me. played with a lot of motion control preset performances, this thing will do a lot - a lot that i wonít ever do but the occasional special lil add - this will be nice.

I like it - iím going to need to load my current board library to get up and running for current gigs, and i can switch out old patches with new ones as Iím able to. First thing Iíll do is switch out pianos I was using for these on the Bowie set. The CFX piano is nicer than any on MOXF/XF. Will try the Bosendorf pianos - how much flash does that library take up?

What other 3rd party libraries have Montage or new MODX users found great? anyone try the B3 libraries out there?

I got the ďmanagerís friendĒ deal too ... iím stoked.


Bose pno takes about 480 mb of the 1 gb limit. IIRC

If you load the Chick Corea EP's too, it's just about all gone. I tried the Corea ones, but tbh the factory ones are just as good if not better IMO.
Posted By: zephonic

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/09/18 04:16 AM

Originally Posted By: miden
Originally Posted By: MotiDave
Just unpacked my MODX7 and turned it on. Wow, a lot of sonic power. Wandered around a bit with no particular intent to go anywhere. its an upgrade from XF/MOXF imo. Pianos, EPS, strings, etc - they all sound better to me. played with a lot of motion control preset performances, this thing will do a lot - a lot that i wonít ever do but the occasional special lil add - this will be nice.

I like it - iím going to need to load my current board library to get up and running for current gigs, and i can switch out old patches with new ones as Iím able to. First thing Iíll do is switch out pianos I was using for these on the Bowie set. The CFX piano is nicer than any on MOXF/XF. Will try the Bosendorf pianos - how much flash does that library take up?

What other 3rd party libraries have Montage or new MODX users found great? anyone try the B3 libraries out there?

I got the ďmanagerís friendĒ deal too ... iím stoked.


Bose pno takes about 480 mb of the 1 gb limit. IIRC

If you load the Chick Corea EP's too, it's just about all gone. I tried the Corea ones, but tbh the factory ones are just as good if not better IMO.


Yeah, I'm not sure I'll keep the CC MkV. It's a very nice tone, but not one I'd need a lot live. I'm leaving it in there for now, but if I need that space, it'll have to go.
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/09/18 09:15 AM

And then thereís that free CS-80 (480mb) and Montage Expanded (180mb).
Keepers or goners?
Posted By: Mogut

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/09/18 09:20 AM

In an age where memory and hard drive space is cheap and endless, keyboard makers are still frugal with the memory cards used in their machines.
Posted By: Bobby Simons

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/09/18 09:32 AM

Originally Posted By: Mogut
In an age where memory and hard drive space is cheap and endless, keyboard makers are still frugal with the memory cards used in their machines.


Iíve often had the same thought - whatís up wit dat? There must be something Iím not getting.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/09/18 09:49 AM

Originally Posted By: Fleer
And then thereís that free CS-80 (480mb) and Montage Expanded (180mb).
Keepers or goners?

Not all or nothing. Keep the bits you like, ditch the rest.

Originally Posted By: Bobby Simons
Originally Posted By: Mogut
In an age where memory and hard drive space is cheap and endless, keyboard makers are still frugal with the memory cards used in their machines.

Iíve had the same thought - whatís up wit dat? There must be something Iím not getting.

There are different kinds of "memory", it's not all cheap and endless. Look at the $ difference per GB between buying RAM vs. flash thumb drive. The kind of flash memory needed to be seen as RAM (so that its data is instantly available and can be processed "in place" rather than moved into RAM first) that can also function as storage (i.e. its contents survive reboots) is very expensive. It's part of what makes Nords pricey, and it's why the 512 Mb flash expansion for previous Yamahas was $150, and the 1 GB was close to twice that. I'm assuming that's still what Yamaha is using in the Montage/MODX. You can read about the differences between NOR and NAND flash at https://www.micron.com/~/media/documents/products/product-flyer/nor_nand_flash_guide.pdf
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/09/18 09:49 AM

Originally Posted By: Mogut
In an age where memory and hard drive space is cheap and endless, keyboard makers are still frugal with the memory cards used in their machines.


According to Yamaha - their flash memory design is fundamentally different and faster than standard SSD or other storage media because it multi-bit (i think 16 bit but donít quote me) paralle read access instantly - hence allowing the board to read detailed sample data faster without constantly loading it into a temporary RAM location first. Itís not apples and orange at all.

Now, is all that a focus on direct live read of the memory vs just loading it to a faster cheap RAM location necessary to function - well, thats a question i canít answer.

I do think the inability to add more Flash at user cost is miss. Add the gratuitous reduction in MODX - just to keep flagship separation - well, understandable but a bummer for me as i bought MODX. 1GB is not a lot. Not sure I can afford half of it for a piano library, i donít play much isolated solo piano - iím In a band mix and there are just other priorities.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/09/18 10:13 AM

Originally Posted By: MotiDave
Now, is all that a focus on direct live read of the memory vs just loading it to a faster cheap RAM location necessary to function - well, thats a question i canít answer.

One variable is boot time, as systems that store their data in cheap flash (or SSD, or hard drive) need extra time to copy their data into RAM at boot (see Korg). In fact, Yamaha took this approach in the older Moifs... ES and XS at least could auto-load additional sample data from USB into optional RAM.
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/09/18 01:46 PM

I'll say this - MODX boots very fast and switches programs very fast - jmo, ymmv
Posted By: GovernorSilver

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/09/18 02:19 PM

Originally Posted By: MotiDave
I'll say this - MODX boots very fast and switches programs very fast - jmo, ymmv


That's good to hear.

When I was bringing my Korg M3 to band rehearsals, I had to make sure I turned it on first, because it took a while to boot up, then several minutes to load all those M3 Xpanded sounds from the attached USB thumb drive.
Posted By: pjd

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/09/18 03:01 PM

The old Yamaha expansion flash modules (boards) are 16-bit data parallel. The address bus is also parallel.

The Montage and MODX tone generators communicate directly with NAND flash using the Open NAND Flash Interface (ONFI). ONFI is the same interface used internally within SSD drives. The tone generator maintains a cache of currently used samples in a fast, dedicated SDRAM. The cache is needed because NAND flash random access read time is relatively slow, too slow to sustain 128 voice stereo polyphony.

ONFI moves data and address bits across a bi-directional bus. Normally, the bus is 8-bits wide, but there is provision for 16-bit transfer. Looking at the Montage service manual, it looks like Yamaha are using 8-bit mode although they double up the flash devices in order to implement 16-bit transfer.

WRT user expansion, I don't think Yamaha could find a reasonable way to let users expand ONFI memory in the field. Getting rid of the parallel expansion bus, connectors, boards and chassis access greatly simplifies industrial design, cuts cost, and eliminates another QA headache.

Gory details:

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/montage-hardware-platform/
http://sandsoftwaresound.net/swp70-tone-generator/
http://sandsoftwaresound.net/serial-mem-tone-gen/

U.S. Patent 8,957,295 is the patent issued for the SWP70 memory interface. U.S. Patent 9,040,800 describes a tone generator with 256 channels -- very likely the SWP70.

Hey, hey, I gigged with MODX6 on Sunday and I'm quite happy with it. Very easy to schlep around.

All the best -- pj
Posted By: Analogaddict

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/09/18 03:10 PM

Iíve done a gig and three full days of rehearsals with the MODX7 alone and as part of a bigger rig and itís not going back. smile As an all-in-one solution all sounds Are good enough, and as an add on in my bigger rig it can hold its own. I prefer the brass tones to my Kronos brass and the modern synth sounds are on level with my Virus Ti - not in programmability, but for most modern dance stuff The MODX7 will do just fine. Having such easy access to the internal compressors is great, and the envelope follower -> midi sync seems to work fine, but itís very picky with levels you feed it.
Posted By: Marillo

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/09/18 03:29 PM

Originally Posted By: Music*aL
Second test drive at GC tonight. The MODX8 was set up with a stereo set of near fields (Yamahas I believe).

One of the first things I did was disconnect one of the audio outs to one of the speakers so that I could audition it in mono, as I've decided a long time ago to play my live gigs in mono. WoW!!! The liveliness of the patches was sucked right out. In stereo, all the patches (I'm most interested in acoustic and electric pianos) have this wonderful depth about them. In mono, the sounds are one dimensional and no better sounding to me than the MOXF 8 I recently sold.


This is interesting and crucial given many of us will play it live. I'm not genned up on mono/stereo but had a similar experience with my Juno DS at the w/end.
Usually play stereo using our own PA but on this occasion FOH was mono so just a single lead from the left jack into the DI...was really shocked by how flat and weak it sounded.
Forgive the naivety but is there way 'round this, short of going through all patches and fixing the FX (if indeed it's the stereo panning that gives them all the depth etc)
Posted By: jeffinpghpa

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/09/18 04:33 PM

I went to a GC to audition it last week, but they were already sold out of them including the floor model. It's great to hear good reviews of the MODX7 as a light, all in one, for the occasional sit in gig, rehearsal or jam session at the local bar.

I really like what I hear on YouTube videos, but I'm not sure I'm gassing enough for it to sell my FA-07 which is also fine for this purpose.

Any other comments on the MODX7 action? I think despite the cheap plastic build of the FA-07, the keybed feels pretty decent.
Posted By: Dreamchilde

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/09/18 04:38 PM

Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/09/18 06:00 PM

Originally Posted By: pjd
The old Yamaha expansion flash modules (boards) are 16-bit data parallel. The address bus is also parallel.

The Montage and MODX tone generators communicate directly with NAND flash using the Open NAND Flash Interface (ONFI). ONFI is the same interface used internally within SSD drives. The tone generator maintains a cache of currently used samples in a fast, dedicated SDRAM. The cache is needed because NAND flash random access read time is relatively slow, too slow to sustain 128 voice stereo polyphony. {etc.}

Thanks for the info, very interesting. So they have moved away from NOR flash to a hybrid NAND flash + RAM approach, and have their own technology to do it. I guess that helps explain how a more capable and larger capacity MODX is replacing a higher-priced MOXF/Flash card combo.
Posted By: High Diving Act

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/09/18 08:34 PM

I have been downloading, sifting through, auditioning and editing/customizing patches over the past week for live shows.
Here are my soundmondo submissions. I think they are great starting points for some bread and butter sounds. Hope these are helpful to a some of you.

PIANO https://soundmondo.yamahasynth.com/voices/29515
RHODESMKV https://soundmondo.yamahasynth.com/voices/29533
CLAV https://soundmondo.yamahasynth.com/voices/29532
BRASS https://soundmondo.yamahasynth.com/voices/29518
STRINGPAD https://soundmondo.yamahasynth.com/voices/29520
POLYSAW https://soundmondo.yamahasynth.com/voices/29519
Posted By: miden

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/09/18 10:13 PM

I'd like to see a few more split performances. Which is not really the Soundmondo purview I know.. but it would have been nice for Yammie programmers to include a few more factory ones.
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/10/18 12:34 AM

Thanks Jay!
Posted By: Shapsy

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/10/18 02:43 AM

That's awesome.
Posted By: jeffinpghpa

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/10/18 09:14 AM

The Yamaha vs. Roland video was good.

I can't say I would make a decision on either based on pianos and electric pianos.

The FM sounds and acoustic instruments on the Yamaha are a noticeable win over Roland to me.

Roland Super Natural synth sounds for leads and pads are no slouch and they layer very nicely on the FA-07. I quite like the Roland synth sound, maybe better than Yamaha, but this is also splitting hairs that are just for me and not anyone else in a band or venue listening.

I don't think I would go to either of these for organ, in my opinion. Roland a little better in the video but live, just not going to replace a clonewheel.

Summary - if someone wants to buy my FA-07 for a good price, I'd give the MODX7 a go, but I don't see enough value in taking a big hit on selling it this quickly.

The action on that FA-07 feels good and I'm sure I could be fine with the MODX7 too.
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/10/18 09:59 AM

Boot time = ~ 16 seconds. Similar to MOXF, much faster than Motif XF. I donít have a Montage to compare.

Iíve played around for 2nd night on MODX7 - it feel similar but better than MOXF6 to me. i canít put my finger (no pun intended) on exactly the difference. Keys feel a tad more sturdy,

I see what someone said about the ID markings for connection ports - cannot see them at all from the keys side of the board, they are hidden under a lip from the top of board. Either have to tip the board up to see (which is light but may not be easy once you have half the connections in) or walk around to the other side. Thinking about labels.
Posted By: Mogut

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/10/18 10:50 AM

Originally Posted By: MotiDave
Boot time = ~ 16 seconds. Similar to MOXF, much faster than Motif XF.


Motif XS = 3:15secs fyi

or maybe it was 2:15secs.... i cant remember, but its painfully long boot
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/10/18 11:26 AM

Originally Posted By: jeffinpghpa
The Yamaha vs. Roland video was good.

I can't say I would make a decision on either based on pianos and electric pianos.

Personally, I'd pick Yamaha for piano. The Roland may be subjectively a perfectly pleasant sounds, but it just doesn't sound as much like a real acoustic piano to me. And getting back to my earlier comment, again, the Roland dynamics seem exaggerated, too many notes "pop out" as too bright, or slip away as too subdued. My impression from the demo is that he's a good player who still can't really control the Roland dynamics. An obvious example is the chord around 1:24 which is so much more pronounced than what's around it, and seems clearly unintentionally so. Once you notice that, you can listen to the whole passage and see that kind of unevenness all over the place, while the Yamaha plays much more smoothly.

EPs trickier... in this demo, they all kinda suck. But I'd say the Yamaha wurly is better than the Roland (if that's not damning with faint praise). Though Yamaha also has other EP sample sets in there, and more you can load into its memory expansion. (Well, Roland also has an EP expansion, but it's the old SRX card which isn't so great either.)

Originally Posted By: jeffinpghpa
The FM sounds and acoustic instruments on the Yamaha are a noticeable win over Roland to me.

Roland Super Natural synth sounds for leads and pads are no slouch and they layer very nicely on the FA-07. I quite like the Roland synth sound, maybe better than Yamaha, but this is also splitting hairs that are just for me and not anyone else in a band or venue listening.

Yeah, even just based on the tech involved, Yamaha should certainly have the edge for FM sounds, and Roland for VA. And like you, I prefer Yamaha for most acoustic instrument sounds as well. Roland has at least a theoretical edge with the Supernatural behavior modeling, but that applies to few sounds on the FA, and even fewer when you factor out the pianos and EPs which seem less impressive regardless. (I also just don't care about some of them... I never bother comparing guitar and bass sounds, for example, because I always work with real guitarists and bassists so those sounds don't matter.)

Originally Posted By: jeffinpghpa
I don't think I would go to either of these for organ, in my opinion

Yeah, neither demo here is impressive. For organ I'd give Roland an edge for having the Sub Out to make it easy to incorporate a Vent.

Originally Posted By: jeffinpghpa
The action on that FA-07 feels good and I'm sure I could be fine with the MODX7 too.

I'd expect the Yamaha keys to feel more even in response from front to rear.
Posted By: allan_evett

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/10/18 02:42 PM

I have an MODX8 on its way here; should arrive Friday or next Monday. Meanwhile my Montage 8 is shipping out today. Seems a wiser choice for gigging: 31 lbs vs 64, and more compact, widthwise. I can deal with the slightly lighter action. For a dedicated piano gig I'd likely use my FP-50 anyway.

For very basic cover situations, the Montage-based organs would be okay; but for single keyboard stuff I'd still connect my iPad to the MODX and use Galileo - as I did with the Montage 8.

Once I've had a chance to test out the MODX, I'll post impressions here. Seems a good way to combine my legacy Motif/S-series patches and favorite Montage sounds into a leaner package.
Posted By: Randelph

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/10/18 04:09 PM

Originally Posted By: High Diving Act
I have been downloading, sifting through, auditioning and editing/customizing patches over the past week for live shows.
Here are my soundmondo submissions. I think they are great starting points for some bread and butter sounds. Hope these are helpful to a some of you.

PIANO https://soundmondo.yamahasynth.com/voices/29515
RHODESMKV https://soundmondo.yamahasynth.com/voices/29533
CLAV https://soundmondo.yamahasynth.com/voices/29532
BRASS https://soundmondo.yamahasynth.com/voices/29518
STRINGPAD https://soundmondo.yamahasynth.com/voices/29520
POLYSAW https://soundmondo.yamahasynth.com/voices/29519


HDA, I followed the above links, thereís nothing to click on to play your demos. Googled it, and thereís a Yamaha Soundmondo app, which i installed on my ipad. Clicked again on the above links and it still just takes me to a page with no play button.
Posted By: High Diving Act

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/10/18 06:11 PM

Originally Posted By: Randelph
Originally Posted By: High Diving Act
I have been downloading, sifting through, auditioning and editing/customizing patches over the past week for live shows.
Here are my soundmondo submissions. I think they are great starting points for some bread and butter sounds. Hope these are helpful to a some of you.

PIANO https://soundmondo.yamahasynth.com/voices/29515
RHODESMKV https://soundmondo.yamahasynth.com/voices/29533
CLAV https://soundmondo.yamahasynth.com/voices/29532
BRASS https://soundmondo.yamahasynth.com/voices/29518
STRINGPAD https://soundmondo.yamahasynth.com/voices/29520
POLYSAW https://soundmondo.yamahasynth.com/voices/29519


HDA, I followed the above links, thereís nothing to click on to play your demos. Googled it, and thereís a Yamaha Soundmondo app, which i installed on my ipad. Clicked again on the above links and it still just takes me to a page with no play button.



There is no preview on soundmondo. You have to hook your modx up to the computer and using google chrome only you click on the sound.. click sync.. and it will load onto your modx to preview on the keyboard. It will not save there unless you choose to save it to your keyboard.
Posted By: MIDI2XS

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/10/18 09:37 PM

Originally Posted By: Mogut
Originally Posted By: MotiDave
Boot time = ~ 16 seconds. Similar to MOXF, much faster than Motif XF.


Motif XS = 3:15secs fyi

or maybe it was 2:15secs.... i cant remember, but its painfully long boot

Perhaps when AutoLoading a file. Otherwise, the XS boots in a bit more than 30 seconds.

Boot time for a Motif XF can vary considerably, dependent on the number and capacity of any installed flash modules.
Posted By: miden

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/10/18 09:57 PM

Well, I for one, am 100% happy I swapped to the MODX 8 from the Kurzweil Sp6 - out here they are about $450 different in price but an absolute WORLD away in terms of bang for buck!
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/10/18 09:58 PM

Originally Posted By: MIDI2XS
Originally Posted By: Mogut
Originally Posted By: MotiDave
Boot time = ~ 16 seconds. Similar to MOXF, much faster than Motif XF.


Motif XS = 3:15secs fyi

or maybe it was 2:15secs.... i cant remember, but its painfully long boot

Perhaps when AutoLoading a file. Otherwise, the XS boots in a bit more than 30 seconds.

Boot time for a Motif XF can vary considerably, dependent on the number and capacity of any installed flash modules.
. About 30 or so seconds for XF sounds about right. It takes twice as long (maybe a tad longer) than MOXF - thats when both have the same single Flash installed. I actually donít think flash adds to time to boot as internal memory retains a stored map of what waveform maps to what - that is why when you put a flash board into a XF, it ďinstallsĒ it - reads/creates that map. It only does that upon initial install of flash board. After that the map is just there.
Posted By: KeyMoe

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/10/18 10:16 PM

Well the MODX8 arrived yesterday and so far it's a keeper. Sold the Montage 8 a couple weeks ago and happy I did. The action is acceptable but does seem a little slower than I had hoped but certainly acceptable. The overall feel of the unit is a a bit plastic-y but the trade off is it is really light. Seems a bit boxy as well, so a hard case may be end up being larger than needed.
Sonically it seems to be on par with the Montage and in front of house I doubt you can tell the difference. Certainly is filled with a large selection of sounds.

I got this at an unbelievable price as a preorder and simply can't be beat for the money. The wall wart seems really cheap so I oredered a couple spares today one to keep in my gig bag and one at home. Agree with the placement of the volume knob being an issue and the touch screen seems functional but taking a little to get use to. Might be the font being smaller and picking up a bit of glare from the over lights in the room. Not sure how it will work out yet in my 3 tier setup.
But overall very happy so far!!! More to come when I get closer to getting it gig ready. It will replace my S70XS pretty nicely as my bottom board.
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/10/18 10:25 PM

@KeyMoe: could you tell us some more on that unbelievable price?
Posted By: Sven Golly

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/10/18 11:13 PM

Originally Posted By: Fleer
@KeyMoe: could you tell us some more on that unbelievable price?


No, he canít. Review the forum policies.

(Also, as the items are now on the market, ďpre-orderĒ is no longer applicable, so why torture yourself?)
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/10/18 11:26 PM

Didnít know about the policy.
Just interested. Maybe he can PM.
Posted By: MIDI2XS

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/10/18 11:58 PM

Originally Posted By: MotiDave
Originally Posted By: MIDI2XS
Originally Posted By: Mogut
Motif XS = 3:15secs fyi

or maybe it was 2:15secs.... i cant remember, but its painfully long boot

Perhaps when AutoLoading a file. Otherwise, the XS boots in a bit more than 30 seconds.

Boot time for a Motif XF can vary considerably, dependent on the number and capacity of any installed flash modules.

.About 30 or so seconds for XF sounds about right. It takes twice as long (maybe a tad longer) than MOXF - thats when both have the same single Flash installed. I actually donít think flash adds to time to boot as internal memory retains a stored map of what waveform maps to what - that is why when you put a flash board into a XF, it ďinstallsĒ it - reads/creates that map. It only does that upon initial install of flash board. After that the map is just there.

It's not about mapping Waveforms - boot time seems unaffected by flash module contents. Rather, in my experience boot time is affected by the presence and size of the flash module(s). I increased the size and number of modules in my XF6 in stages. Each increase caused the boot time to also increase. I now have two 1GB modules installed, and boot time is a full minute. Apparently the XF does some basic checking of installed flash. Whatever it's doing, it takes some time.
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/11/18 02:01 AM

Originally Posted By: MIDI2XS
Originally Posted By: MotiDave
Originally Posted By: MIDI2XS
[quote=Mogut]Motif XS = 3:15secs fyi

or maybe it was 2:15secs.... i cant remember, but its painfully long boot

Perhaps when AutoLoading a file. Otherwise, the XS boots in a bit more than 30 seconds.

Boot time for a Motif XF can vary considerably, dependent on the number and capacity of any installed flash modules.

.About 30 or so seconds for XF sounds about right. It takes twice as long (maybe a tad longer) than MOXF - thats when both have the same single Flash installed. I actually donít think flash adds to time to boot as internal memory retains a stored map of what waveform maps to what - that is why when you put a flash board into a XF, it ďinstallsĒ it - reads/creates that map. It only does that upon initial install of flash board. After that the map is just there.

It's not about mapping Waveforms - boot time seems unaffected by flash module contents. Rather, in my experience boot time is affected by the presence and size of the flash module(s). I increased the size and number of modules in my XF6 in stages. Each increase caused the boot time to also increase. I now have two 1GB modules installed, and boot time is a full minute. Apparently the XF does some basic checking of installed flash. Whatever it's doing, it takes some time.
[/quote]huh. I think youíre right that content volume doesnít matter, I saw no time difference when I deleted 60% of waveforms I didnít need/use from 750 MB down to 300 MB. I always bow to your prowess but whatever its doing, the MO series does it a lot faster or just doesnít bother to do it at all. I have a 1GB FL1024 in the XF, a 2GB mutec in the MOXF. MOXF still boots twice as fast (or more).
Posted By: DanS

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/11/18 12:50 PM

Originally Posted By: allan_evett
I have an MODX8 on its way here; should arrive Friday or next Monday. Meanwhile my Montage 8 is shipping out today. Seems a wiser choice for gigging: 31 lbs vs 64, and more compact, widthwise. I can deal with the slightly lighter action. For a dedicated piano gig I'd likely use my FP-50 anyway.

For very basic cover situations, the Montage-based organs would be okay; but for single keyboard stuff I'd still connect my iPad to the MODX and use Galileo - as I did with the Montage 8.

Once I've had a chance to test out the MODX, I'll post impressions here. Seems a good way to combine my legacy Motif/S-series patches and favorite Montage sounds into a leaner package.


I picked up a MOXF8 a few years ago for the same reasons, much lighter than my old S70XS.
Do let us know.
Posted By: Sven Golly

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/11/18 12:56 PM

Originally Posted By: Fleer
Didnít know about the policy.
Just interested. Maybe he can PM.


It's a sticky. Called "READ BEFORE POSTING: Forum Policies". snax
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/11/18 01:24 PM

Originally Posted By: Sven Golly
Originally Posted By: Fleer
Didnít know about the policy.
Just interested. Maybe he can PM.


It's a sticky. Called "READ BEFORE POSTING: Forum Policies". snax

We're in the era of iTunes License Agreements. Nobody reads anything they're told to read anymore.
Posted By: Randelph

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/11/18 02:04 PM

Originally Posted By: miden
Well, I for one, am 100% happy I swapped to the MODX 8 from the Kurzweil Sp6 - out here they are about $450 different in price but an absolute WORLD away in terms of bang for buck!


Miden and others with SP6 experience,
Please do tell! Aside from the $600 difference between the 88 notes in the US. You could make the argument that many who would buy the sp6, which is only offered as 88 notes, might buy the MODX7, at which point its only a $200 premium for the Yamaha.

Some obvious pluses for the MODX7 or 8 are that it has audio inputs for easy use of ipad or notebook for extra sounds, and more wave ROM. What is it that made the Yamaha such a bang for the buck buy compared to the SP6, which many say is Kurzweils best bang for the buck board?
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/11/18 03:46 PM

Originally Posted By: Randelph
What is it that made the Yamaha such a bang for the buck buy compared to the SP6, which many say is Kurzweils best bang for the buck board?

I'd say they both have good bang-for-buck, based on 88-to-88. The MODX is the more capable board overall, but it is almost 50% pricier. Some quick thoughts about key differences, as a live performance board:

SP6 has sample playback, virtual analog, and clonewheel engines; MODX has sample playback and FM engines.

SP6 Multis contain up to 4 playable split/layered sounds, MODX Performances contain up to 8.

SP6 can function as a 4-zone MIDI controller. MODX can function as... 8?

MODX has on-board editing, SP6 editing is only via computer.

MODX has full patch remain on switching up to 4 parts at a time. SP6 sometimes has fx glitches, and doesn't have patch remain switching away from a clonewheel engine sound (though again MODX doesn't have clonewheel engine at all).

MODX lets you load custom samples, SP6 does not.

MODX has the large touchscreen interface, which also makes it stronger for patch selection.

MODX has more real-time controllers.

But of course then there's what you think about the sounds... and action...
Posted By: Toano88

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/11/18 04:15 PM

It all depends what your specific needs are and if you like sounds and playability. The MODX is a welcome step up from the the previous MOXF. And not an astronomical difference in price. Had it been out when I bought my FA-08, I would have had to do some serious testing and research. From what little I have read, it looks like I wouldn't have the FA-08. Though I don't have many complaints beyond the fact it scratches easy!

As far as the SP6, I still would have bought it. It is a stage piano and fills that niche quite admirably. Comparing it to a workstation does it an injustice. I bought it because that is what I wanted, a capable stage piano.
Posted By: Bobby Simons

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/11/18 04:17 PM

Can I add, shallowly. . . The MODX is a bit better looking from the back? The SP6 has all that funky stuff goin' on.
Posted By: miden

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/11/18 05:04 PM

Okay...the SP6 is not a workstation and neither is the MODX.

It is not a 50% price difference, more like a 25-30% price difference.
Sp6 is really just a stage piano, a lot of the other sounds leave a lot to be desired, some are okay...most are ordinary. Basses and guitars are, well, pathetic although DW has a done some nice "silk purse from a sows ear" work on some of the basses.

Although it IS all rather subjective wink I reckon the organs on the MODX match those on the SP6. Others will disagree, but I don't use organ much anyway.

Guitars and basses are simply NO comparison. The MODX wins hands-down. I reckon the guitar base samples on the Kurz are exactly the same as the old PC1SE I had years ago. All that has been done is some tweaking of efx, but the core samples are, to me, sounding the same and just so dated now.

They way Kurzweil do the whole structure of sound/multi organisation is so unintuitive, well for me anyway. Everything is based around the sound. Want to have a multipart setup, and just want to tweak an ins effect for that ONE setup? well you need to create a whole new patch JUST to save one minor efx tweak, oh and a new Ins Efx patch as well!...the MODX OTOH allows tweaks in the "multi" setup itself and requires no saving altered efx and other dat to new sounds or efx slots....no wonder there are soooo many on the SP6, you need them!!

The keybeds are on a par. With the MODX perhaps slightly, ever so slightly a bit slower. Bounce, key travel and key striking areas seem to be about the same. Mechanical noise level is about the same.

The MODX GHS 8 is definitely different imo to the MOXF 8, which I got rid because of its loud mechanical noise (read same as PX5-s)

There is nothing really from Yamaha, but is sure feels different (better).

MODX has the LIVE SET feature and all those folks used to this on the Korgs will appreciate juts how useful this is. The MODX also seems to follow more usual MIDI connectivity.

And as written, there is practically NO editing on board the SP6, and the PC editor provided is flaky at best. It really is a cobbled together version of the PC3 editor (of Forte?) and even that is cobbled together. No real support from Soundtower and no solid manuals.

So for about 30% more in $'s you are getting a LOT more in value.

Look, the SP6 is a nice 'board if all you want is a light stage piano. And were I only in a bands I probs would have made do with it, but for solo work it was simply too tough for this old head!

Simply put on a value for money 0-10? SP6 gets a 6.5 and the MODX gets an 8.5.

As always the views expressed here are not necessarily those of this channel grin
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/11/18 06:09 PM

Price difference between Kurz SP6 and Yam MODX8 is more than 30%, Iím afraid.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/11/18 06:17 PM

Originally Posted By: miden
It is not a 50% price difference, more like a 25-30% price difference.

88 to 88, $1300 to $1900 s 46% more. But if you can get by with the 76, sure, the difference reduces, since there's no 76-ky SP6.

Originally Posted By: miden
II reckon the organs on the MODX match those on the SP6. Others will disagree, but I don't use organ much anyway.

Guitars and basses are simply NO comparison.

And then there are people like me whose priorities are the reverse of those. I use organ a lot and like having 9-drawbar control... I do play LH bass on some gigs but am not fussy about that sound ... I almost never play a guitar sound, I leave that to the guitarist.

Originally Posted By: miden
They way Kurzweil do the whole structure of sound/multi organisation is so unintuitive, well for me anyway. Everything is based around the sound. Want to have a multipart setup, and just want to tweak an ins effect for that ONE setup? well you need to create a whole new patch JUST to save one minor efx tweak, oh and a new Ins Efx patch as well!...the MODX OTOH allows tweaks in the "multi" setup itself

It's not that the MODX "allows" you to save tweak sounds right in the "multi" -- it requires you to do so, there's no other place to save them! But yes, you touch on a basic philosophical difference among many keyboards. Some only let you save your tweaked sound as separate individual programs, some only let you save tweaked sounds within the multi-sound setups... and there is the related consequence that changing an individual Program in the first case can change that sound in every combination you've ever used that sound in. Sometimes that's what you want, sometimes it's not. (This difference also affects the ease of re-using a sound you like, though MODX seems to address that nicely even though they use the method that usually makes that trickier.)
Posted By: Swithin

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/11/18 06:20 PM

Originally Posted By: miden

The keybeds are on a par. With the MODX perhaps slightly, ever so slightly a bit slower. Bounce, key travel and key striking areas seem to be about the same. Mechanical noise level is about the same.

The MODX GHS 8 is definitely different imo to the MOXF 8, which I got rid because of its loud mechanical noise (read same as PX5-s)


And what's the keybed like compared to the SL88 Studio?
Posted By: miden

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/11/18 06:21 PM

Latest prices in Oz MODX 8 2399 SP6 $1839 difference $560...the 30% was just me doing my poor math skills. Didn't realise folks were going to get so pedantic. I did say "more like" smile

And actually that IS 30% btw...1839 plus 30% = 2390

Posted By: miden

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/11/18 06:23 PM

Originally Posted By: Swithin
Originally Posted By: miden

The keybeds are on a par. With the MODX perhaps slightly, ever so slightly a bit slower. Bounce, key travel and key striking areas seem to be about the same. Mechanical noise level is about the same.

The MODX GHS 8 is definitely different imo to the MOXF 8, which I got rid because of its loud mechanical noise (read same as PX5-s)


And what's the keybed like compared to the SL88 Studio?


SL88 studio is better, although not by a lot. So the SL88 Stage, I imagine would be better again.
Posted By: miden

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/11/18 06:25 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
... ... I almost never play a guitar sound, I leave that to the guitarist....



That's a tad difficult when playing solo wink
Posted By: Swithin

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/11/18 06:29 PM

Originally Posted By: miden

SL88 studio is better, although not by a lot.


Thank you for such a quick response!
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/11/18 06:31 PM

Originally Posted By: miden
Latest prices in Oz

Ah. Bigger differential in the U.S.

Originally Posted By: miden
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
... ... I almost never play a guitar sound, I leave that to the guitarist....


That's a tad difficult when playing solo wink

Yup, gets back to folks having different needs. Personally, even in my solo work, I don't use guitar sounds.
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/11/18 06:31 PM

Originally Posted By: miden
Latest prices in Oz MODX 8 2399 SP6 $1839 difference $560...the 30% was just me doing my poor math skills. Didn't realise folks were going to get so pedantic. I did say "more like" smile

And actually that IS 30% btw...1839 plus 30% = 2390


Just because it happened to you, does not make it interesting wink
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/11/18 06:33 PM

Prices down under seem to deviate indeed.
Strangest I find is the price difference between MODX7 and MODX8 in US/OZ compared to EU/UK.
Posted By: lsj

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/11/18 06:37 PM

just purchased a MODX6. I know you can't post the company where I purchased it from but it was a sweet, sweet(hint)deal. best deal on the web. I listened to the demos of organimation for the Montage and was really impressed. I am hoping that organimation sells the same product for the MODX6. has anyone purchased this library...ÖÖÖ.Larry
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/11/18 06:46 PM

Originally Posted By: lsj
just purchased a MODX6. I know you can't post the company where I purchased it from but it was a sweet, sweet(hint)deal. best deal on the web. I listened to the demos of organimation for the Montage and was really impressed. I am hoping that organimation sells the same product for the MODX6. has anyone purchased this library...ÖÖÖ.Larry


It is stated that MODX can load Montage files. I would ask them but I expect you should be able to load the Montage library:
MODX Compatibility
Posted By: Lady Gaia

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/11/18 06:55 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
88 to 88, $1300 to $1900 s 46% more. But if you can get by with the 76, sure, the difference reduces, since there's no 76-ky SP6.


The 76 key MODX is synth weighted, isnít it? Thatís likely a deal-breaker for someone who finds the SP6 attractive as a point of comparison. I thought the MODX8 action was surprisingly decent, but I havenít heard anything as kind regarding the lighter weight actions of the 6 and 7. Still, theyíre great sounding synths at their aggressive price points, no question.
Posted By: Adan

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/11/18 06:57 PM

Originally Posted By: lsj
just purchased a MODX6. I know you can't post the company where I purchased it from but it was a sweet, sweet(hint)deal. best deal on the web. I listened to the demos of organimation for the Montage and was really impressed. I am hoping that organimation sells the same product for the MODX6. has anyone purchased this library...ÖÖÖ.Larry


That's surprising. Usually a brand new keyboard will have the same street price everywhere, only later will there be deals to find by shopping around.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/11/18 07:01 PM

Originally Posted By: Lady Gaia
[The 76 key MODX is synth weighted, isnít it?

yes... in the U.S. that would be the trade-off for getting the price that close. Right, not necessarily the same customer.
Posted By: lsj

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/11/18 07:06 PM

well I did it, I always research before I buy
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/11/18 08:32 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: miden
It is not a 50% price difference, more like a 25-30% price difference.

88 to 88, $1300 to $1900 s 46% more. But if you can get by with the 76, sure, the difference reduces, since there's no 76-ky SP6.

Originally Posted By: miden
II reckon the organs on the MODX match those on the SP6. Others will disagree, but I don't use organ much anyway.

Guitars and basses are simply NO comparison.

And then there are people like me whose priorities are the reverse of those. I use organ a lot and like having 9-drawbar control... I do play LH bass on some gigs but am not fussy about that sound ... I almost never play a guitar sound, I leave that to the guitarist.

Originally Posted By: miden
They way Kurzweil do the whole structure of sound/multi organisation is so unintuitive, well for me anyway. Everything is based around the sound. Want to have a multipart setup, and just want to tweak an ins effect for that ONE setup? well you need to create a whole new patch JUST to save one minor efx tweak, oh and a new Ins Efx patch as well!...the MODX OTOH allows tweaks in the "multi" setup itself

It's not that the MODX "allows" you to save tweak sounds right in the "multi" -- it requires you to do so, there's no other place to save them! But yes, you touch on a basic philosophical difference among many keyboards. Some only let you save your tweaked sound as separate individual programs, some only let you save tweaked sounds within the multi-sound setups... and there is the related consequence that changing an individual Program in the first case can change that sound in every combination you've ever used that sound in. Sometimes that's what you want, sometimes it's not. (This difference also affects the ease of re-using a sound you like, though MODX seems to address that nicely even though they use the method that usually makes that trickier.)


Just taking time to tell you how much I appreciate your posts, here and in other forums, AnotherScott. Always insightful, always interesting.
Posted By: Sven Golly

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/11/18 10:04 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
It's a sticky. Called "READ BEFORE POSTING: Forum Policies". snax

We're in the era of iTunes License Agreements. Nobody reads anything they're told to read anymore.[/quote]

I call your attention to my Don Quixote avatar as my response to this. twothumbs
Posted By: GregC

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/11/18 10:58 PM

Originally Posted By: Sven Golly
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
It's a sticky. Called "READ BEFORE POSTING: Forum Policies". snax

We're in the era of iTunes License Agreements. Nobody reads anything they're told to read anymore.


I call your attention to my Don Quixote avatar as my response to this. twothumbs
[/quote]

Reading and history is hard work !

We must have a little click box to check for those ' annoying ' agreements/acknowledgements
wink
Posted By: EscapeRocks

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/12/18 12:53 AM

Well I succumbed to GAS.

I ordered a MODX 6 Be here Monday
Posted By: ShadowMan

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/12/18 01:33 AM

Originally Posted By: lsj
I listened to the demos of organimation for the Montage and was really impressed. I am hoping that organimation sells the same product for the MODX6. has anyone purchased this library...ÖÖÖ.Larry


If the Montage version is as good as the Organimation for MOXF, you should be very happy. I use it all the time - and will definitely purchase it again when I upgrade to an MODX 7...
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/12/18 02:00 AM

MusicTech review is out: https://www.musictech.net/2018/10/yamaha-modx-6-review/
Posted By: Six-string-man

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/12/18 04:17 AM

Two questions, if anyone is in the know.

First, is the drums tempo adjustable on the fly while playing?

Second, has anyone bought the official soft case for the MODX, and if so, is it good gear, or just a piece of tat?

Thanks in advance.
Posted By: Randelph

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/12/18 05:35 AM

Thanks for the various comparisons to the SP6. Have to admit, Iím big on bang for the buck, thereís been very few times I had the bank to afford 3-4,000 dollar boards, so most of the time Iím looking at the under $1,000 ones, and only entertain the under $2,000 boards when it seems irresistible. The MODX7 or 8 is starting to look that way.

Iíd normally never consider buying another Yamaha higher end board, had a really miserable, frustrating time with the XS7. But it sounds like this board is more approachable and user friendly than past Yamaha workstations? Please correct me if Iím wrong! I do realize thatís a very big generalization- there were actually quite a few things on the XS7 that were quick and intuitive, a lot of direct button presses usually. But get below that surface and it was obvious that engineers, not musicians, designed most of the work flow, and after awhile I hated it.

At less than half the price, the Numa Compact 2x is in a different class than the MODX8, But its the only other bang for the buck board that Iíd consider getting at this point. The NC2x even has some advantages over the MODX.

NC2x Pros:
óó The 20w speakers are a big plus in my book. With my Casio MZ-X500, Iíve realized that balancing the onboard stereo speakers with my K8.2 speaker placed right next to the keyboard end cap, that for the first time Iíve got a fully immersive and bass responsive sound that is very satisfying for me, and now I almost never get people asking me to turn down; so I anticipate that kind of personal monitoring capability with this board. A bit like a 2.1 system
óó The weight is about half of the MODX8, of course its only semi-weighted
óó It has aftertouch!
óó Its very shallow, 9Ē vs 13Ē
óó Drawbars! Which can double as oft used synth parameters
óó Limited options, but this makes for simplicity

The cons seem pretty significant though:
óó No user samples can be loaded, and your only dealing with 1 GB / 88 sounds to begin with
óó Spring returning mod stick is a non-starter, what are they thinking?
óó Tiny little display
óó No audio in. Does audio over USB satisfy the ability to use an iPad as a sound source? And if it does, how would i control the volume? With my Casio MZ-X500 I go from the Korg Plugkey to the keyboard audio in. The Plugkey has a little volume knob that i use ALOT, pretty indispensable.


Randy
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/12/18 09:10 AM

Originally Posted By: Fleer
Just taking time to tell you how much I appreciate your posts, here and in other forums, AnotherScott. Always insightful, always interesting.

Thanks!

Originally Posted By: ShadowMan
If the Montage version is as good as the Organimation for MOXF, you should be very happy. I use it all the time - and will definitely purchase it again when I upgrade to an MODX 7...

When you migrate your data from your MOXF to MODX, all your third party libraries should come along too. And at least as long as you're not keeping the library in both units, the license should permit that.

Originally Posted By: Randelph
NC2x Pros:
óó The 20w speakers are a big plus in my book. With my Casio MZ-X500

The NC2 speakers are not nearly as beefy as the MZ-X500. Better than none, but I could do a little cocktail hour thing with the MZ speakers, not with the NC2.
Another pro, though, is 88 keys.

Originally Posted By: Randelph
The cons seem pretty significant though:
óó Spring returning mod stick is a non-starter, what are they thinking?

One of the sticks does not spring return on one axis, hopefully that's the one that does what you want for mod!

Other performance-oriented cons that come to mind that I'd add to your list...
... splits/layers limited to two sounds total (vs. 8)
... MIDI zones likewise limited to two (vs. 8)
... split sounds cannot be panned to different outs (left/right), preventing you from doing splits where just your organ sound goes out to a Vent or just your bass sound goes out to a bass amp
... no seamless transitions when switching among user presets
... almost no direct access to sounds, you'll have to scroll (though you could use MIDI Program Change to change sounds externally)
... and while you mention that "you're only dealing with 1 GB / 88 sounds to begin with" I'd also note that most of the sounds it has are not of Yamaha calibre
Posted By: MIDI2XS

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/12/18 09:32 AM

The most recent issue of the Music Production Guide from Easy Sounds is available:
http://www.easysounds.eu/MusicProductionGuide_2018_05_EN.pdf

Montage/MODX, SampleRobot content.
Posted By: Bobby Simons

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/12/18 02:26 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted By: ShadowMan
If the Montage version is as good as the Organimation for MOXF, you should be very happy. I use it all the time - and will definitely purchase it again when I upgrade to an MODX 7...

It is a significant improvement over the internal organ patches I tried out yesterday in the store, judging by this demo. It just might move me into the 'buy' column. Definitely worth the 50 bucks:

Posted By: Rikk

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/12/18 05:20 PM

Had my modx7 for a day now...awesome keyboard!
Posted By: stoken6

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/12/18 06:28 PM

I'm sitting here with a wry smile on my face. Who knew that a board without VA capability, and without a clonewheel model, but with FM synthesis (FM! Like the DX7? You know, with those clangy EPs?) would inspire such passion?

My second thought is: the DX7 could produce a highly passable tonewheel simulation using six operators in parallel (no rotary sim obviously). The Montage/MODX have 8-op FM - anyone thinking what I'm thinking, and adding a Vent to it?

Cheers, Mike.
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/12/18 09:09 PM

Originally Posted By: Rikk
Had my modx7 for a day now...awesome keyboard!

Had mine for 4 days. It is awesome!
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/13/18 12:31 AM

Originally Posted By: MotiDave
Iíve played around for 2nd night on MODX7 - it feel similar but better than MOXF6 to me. i canít put my finger (no pun intended) on exactly the difference. Keys feel a tad more sturdy,

Yes... besides the known difference of the matte black keys, it feels to me like it has a somehow more solid landing, I thought maybe the throw was shorter, but measurements show them to be about the same there.
Posted By: nursers

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/13/18 12:38 AM

I'm a few weeks in and now that I'm used to the MODX interface I'm going to say it's superior to the Kronos interface freak
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/13/18 10:38 AM

Originally Posted By: nursers
I'm a few weeks in and now that I'm used to the MODX interface I'm going to say it's superior to the Kronos interface freak

Based on my little info/experience so far, my feeling is that MODX interface is better for assembling patches out of existing sounds (i.e. creating Yamaha Performances vs. creating Korg Combis), but Kronos interface is better for editing the individual sounds.

For patch navigation, I find Yamaha's Live Set screens more readable than Kronos Set List, though as mojkarma pointed out earlier, navigating to different screens is better on Kronos.

Moving away from the screen interfaces, I also like the MODX panel controls better. Although controls are obviously fewer, the spacing/sizing/visibility/labeling of them improves their usability. Or to put it differently, a handful of controls I'll use is better than dozens I won't.
Posted By: GregC

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/13/18 10:39 AM

Originally Posted By: nursers
I'm a few weeks in and now that I'm used to the MODX interface I'm going to say it's superior to the Kronos interface freak


thats a leap wink

I think the Kronos font size is '1000 Tiny'

My reading vision strength has decreased since I bought my K 7 years ago.

If I was trying to buy a K today, I would be put off by tiny fonts.

I know about the iPad App and set list, etc etc etc. Neither are useful
for me.

I work in SEQ mode 99% of the time so I have to endure tiny font and dozens of tabs
and sub menus. Fortunately I have ' finger memory' on the K.
Posted By: nursers

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/13/18 12:04 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: nursers
I'm a few weeks in and now that I'm used to the MODX interface I'm going to say it's superior to the Kronos interface freak

Based on my little info/experience so far, my feeling is that MODX interface is better for assembling patches out of existing sounds (i.e. creating Yamaha Performances vs. creating Korg Combis), but Kronos interface is better for editing the individual sounds.


Yep good point - most of the work I've been doing is setting up performances and it's so much simpler on the MODX thu
Posted By: miden

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/13/18 04:59 PM

Another little thing I find useful is under the Live Set mode, (and using the EDIT button) you can set an individual volume level for each Live Set slot!

And it is a dynamic setting IE you don't need to then "save" the change. It is automatically there the next time you want to use that slot. Cool!
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/13/18 05:01 PM

Can anyone give me a quick walk-through on bringing MOXF data into the MODX? I have saved all the MOXF data into a MOXF.X6A file on a USB stick. (There is no wave data, this MOXF does not even have a flash card in it.) How do I bring these User Voices and User Performances into the MODX?
Posted By: FJR

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/13/18 06:05 PM


I'm not sure about performances ( I used pattern/songs ) but for patches

Utility / Load
Choose USB stick
Under "Content Type", Choose "User File" or "Library File" Warning: Choosing User could erase everything in the User Section
Select the X6A file

After importing, you can find the patches by going to Category Search and selecting the User section, or the Library (depending on how you saved the file) in the "Bank/Favorite" filter at the top
Posted By: FJR

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/13/18 06:23 PM


Oh, I see the voice/perf selection at the bottom of the Load screen.
Posted By: lutefiasco

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/13/18 08:16 PM

Went to check one out at the local GC. Got my head turned by the unexpected sight of a Sequential Prophet X. After an hour of pleasurable insanity there, when I did notice the ModX, I was too far elsewhere. Iíll try again next weekend.
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/13/18 08:51 PM

Originally Posted By: FJR

Oh, I see the voice/perf selection at the bottom of the Load screen.


Iím prepping my data for the same migration. what i read so far is you can load all voices, or you can load all performances, but not both as a single consolidated library. So if you have user waveforms assigned to voices, that are then assigned to performaces- i think its going to start duplicating the waveforms (use up flash memory)?

Trying to get clarification ... anyone know how to be efficient in this situation?
Posted By: Bobby Simons

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/13/18 09:27 PM

Originally Posted By: lutefiasco
Went to check one out at the local GC. Got my head turned by the unexpected sight of a Sequential Prophet X. After an hour of pleasurable insanity there, when I did notice the ModX, I was too far elsewhere. Iíll try again next weekend.

Interesting. Every time I went down to play one I ended up at the Montage.
Iím afraid what might happen. I could swing it.
Posted By: mojkarma

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/14/18 02:45 AM

Originally Posted By: MotiDave

Iím prepping my data for the same migration. what i read so far is you can load all voices, or you can load all performances, but not both as a single consolidated library. So if you have user waveforms assigned to voices, that are then assigned to performaces- i think its going to start duplicating the waveforms (use up flash memory)?

Trying to get clarification ... anyone know how to be efficient in this situation?


I'm not sure what would happen in that situation, BadMister would certainly know if you ask him over at the yamahasynth forum. My suggestion would be to load only the performances into the modx. This will also load your user waveform. Once the performance is in the memory, you can create another performance which will contain just one single part with the same waveform and it will not get duplicated.

The way how montage/modx handles user waveform is imho a littlebit cumbersome. There is no obvious merge function as many of us are used to. That means, once you load some waveforms into flash, a further load (waveform) instruction will erase all existing files which are already present in the flash rom.
The trick how new waveforms can be loaded and add to the existing ones in flash is to load a file as library. This will occupy one of the 8 library slots. Once your performances are in the library (if they contain waveforms, they will be also loaded), you can prelisten to the performances you need/want and then you can move selected performances from the library area into the user area. The difference is that editings in the library cannot be saved. That area is a save space to load additional third party libraries or your own once you don't need to edit the files further.

Even if it happens that you load duplicate waveforms, all the user waveforms can be viewed in the utility mode and if you don't have hundreds of them, I guess it would be easy to identify duplicates and erase them from there.
Posted By: FJR

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/14/18 11:03 AM

Originally Posted By: MotiDave
Originally Posted By: FJR

Oh, I see the voice/perf selection at the bottom of the Load screen.


Iím prepping my data for the same migration. what i read so far is you can load all voices, or you can load all performances, but not both as a single consolidated library. So if you have user waveforms assigned to voices, that are then assigned to performaces- i think its going to start duplicating the waveforms (use up flash memory)?

Trying to get clarification ... anyone know how to be efficient in this situation?


I was going to try some experiments to see what happens, before I get too far into the setup. Problem is, this thing is so light, I want to gig with it NOW! So I've been busy trying to get up to speed on how to use the controls/build patches! smile

Tomorrow night, I'm backing up everything and trying a couple of imports of xf/moxf stuff, to see what happens.

I like the Bosendorfer, but right away that uses up almost half of the sample memory!
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/14/18 02:29 PM

I loaded Performances from my MOXF. Most loaded fine, but I got a message that all data did not load, and now walking thru them - iím finding a couple where the Voice (now Part) didnít load properly. Not sure why. It loaded direct to User memory

I need education on how to transfer User memory to a Library, then load a new set and combine whatís in User (after it overwrites current content) with some content in the Library.
Posted By: Rikk

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/14/18 04:33 PM

Maybe someone can help me? - MODX 7-- Im trying to save a live set and can't save the octive setting at the same time? octive stays on all live sets. any ideas?
THANKS!
Posted By: Aidan

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/14/18 06:58 PM

Originally Posted By: Rikk
Maybe someone can help me? - MODX 7-- Im trying to save a live set and can't save the octive setting at the same time? octive stays on all live sets. any ideas?
THANKS!


If you're talking about the buttons on the far left transposing up and down octaves, I don't believe they can be saved within a performance Ė it's a global, live setting. You can still save the note transpose (up to two octaves up or down) within an individual part of a performance.
Posted By: Rikk

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/14/18 07:05 PM

Thanks Aidan! at least I know now!
Posted By: Mogut

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/15/18 09:28 AM

Originally Posted By: Aidan
Originally Posted By: Rikk
Maybe someone can help me? - MODX 7-- Im trying to save a live set and can't save the octive setting at the same time? octive stays on all live sets. any ideas?
THANKS!


If you're talking about the buttons on the far left transposing up and down octaves, I don't believe they can be saved within a performance Ė it's a global, live setting. You can still save the note transpose (up to two octaves up or down) within an individual part of a performance.


Yeah i wish it didnt function that way. If you are in edit mode, and you are editing a single part, the octave buttons should act as a parameter change only within that part edit. Seems like the natural thing to do.
Posted By: Bobby Simons

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/15/18 09:44 AM

I don't think transpose buttons have ever worked as an individual patch parameter. As Aidan says, it's a global change - I've always assumed it offset the midi note number of the key you are playing.

Perhaps you can edit an individual voice range, I don't have a MODX (yet) to know. This kind of editing is something very common to Mainstagers. It would seem that there must be a way to adjust range. It's pretty necessary - programming splits, for instance.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/15/18 11:44 AM

Originally Posted By: mojkarma
While asking about holding the sustain pedal, here I have to say that Yamaha screwed it up in a hardly understandable way. Seamless switching doesn't work for the sustain pedal. If you play a piano sound, hold the sustain pedal and switch to another piano or e.piano sound, the sustain will be reset! You have to depress and press the sustain pedal again for the new sound but depressing will logically cutoff the previous piano sound. This is a highly unmusical implementation and I reported it over in the yamahasynth forum, but as with most big companies, they don't see a problem because "seamless switching works as intended".

You might want to "upvote" the suggestion at https://yamahasynth.ideascale.com/a/dtd/...ce/212021-45978
Posted By: miden

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/15/18 10:06 PM

Originally Posted By: Bobby Simons
.........Perhaps you can edit an individual voice range, I don't have a MODX (yet) to know. This kind of editing is something very common to Mainstagers. It would seem that there must be a way to adjust range. It's pretty necessary - programming splits, for instance.


Yes indeed you can. You can set all these things inside the performance itself. You can set any ranges you like, pitch it anyway you like, and all this is totally separate from the "Global" settings.

When/if Yamaha decide to allow the Octave buttons to blink/light for chromatic transpose like they do for Octave changes, then I'll probs just go back to dynamic transposing. Until then if a transpose is needed I do it IN the performance.

Hope that helps ??
Posted By: burningbusch

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/15/18 10:30 PM

FYI, there are issues when loading looped files created using either Translator or the Melas Waveform Editor. Both introduce audible artifacts, likely an issue related to incorrect file size or incorrect loop markers. As you cannot get down to the sample level on the Montage/MODX and verify, it's hazy as to what exactly is going on. Chicken Systems has verified the issue and a fix is planned for the next release of Translator expected mid-October. I haven't heard back from Melas. Sample Robot does not have this issue. Its loops are clean.

BTW, I'm not saying that both Translator and the Melas Waveform Editor have the exact issue, only that neither product's files loop properly in the Montage, according to my findings.

Busch.
Posted By: burningbusch

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/15/18 10:33 PM

Originally Posted By: miden
Originally Posted By: Bobby Simons
.........Perhaps you can edit an individual voice range, I don't have a MODX (yet) to know. This kind of editing is something very common to Mainstagers. It would seem that there must be a way to adjust range. It's pretty necessary - programming splits, for instance.


Yes indeed you can. You can set all these things inside the performance itself. You can set any ranges you like, pitch it anyway you like, and all this is totally separate from the "Global" settings.

When/if Yamaha decide to allow the Octave buttons to blink/light for chromatic transpose like they do for Octave changes, then I'll probs just go back to dynamic transposing. Until then if a transpose is needed I do it IN the performance.

Hope that helps ??

A simpler, more elegant solution would be for Yamaha to provide transposition offsets in LIVE SET, similar to the Kronos. You keep the original Performance data the same. Provide an indicator -1 or +12 in the LIVE SET slot for that Performance.

Busch.
Posted By: miden

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/16/18 12:13 AM

Originally Posted By: burningbusch
............A simpler, more elegant solution would be for Yamaha to provide transposition offsets in LIVE SET, similar to the Kronos. You keep the original Performance data the same. Provide an indicator -1 or +12 in the LIVE SET slot for that Performance.

Busch.


Yep, agree!
Posted By: pjd

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/16/18 11:55 AM

Good idea for Live Set extension. There are so many ways that Live Set could be extended. I'd like buttons to remember the path to an audio WAV file (on flash drive) such that the file is loaded and ready to play along with the appropriate Performance.

As an aside, I've been blogging about my early experience voice editing, etc.:

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/yamaha-modx-all9bars/
http://sandsoftwaresound.net/modx-after-the-first-gig/
http://sandsoftwaresound.net/modx-theatre-orchestra/

I'm having a lot of fun with this instrument. It's a keeper!

All the best -- pj
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/16/18 12:42 PM

Originally Posted By: miden
When/if Yamaha decide to allow the Octave buttons to blink/light for chromatic transpose like they do for Octave changes

I doubt that will ever happen, because then you'd lose the current function of the lights (which already alternate between blinking states depending on how many octaves you've shifted). I mean, what would you have the lights do if you had used the buttons for transpose, and then further did an octave shift? I think dual-purposing these lights creates a potential rabbit hole of confusion, and I think sacrificing the current use of those lights to get transpose lights instead would hinder it for as many people as it helps. That said, I think there should be a clear on-screen indication of when you're in a transposition state, whether it's adding TRANSPOSE+1 or whatever to the top center of the display, or changing the color of the pach name to red, or blinking it... something!

My even bigger issue with the Transpose function is that it doesn't maintain split points. As understand it, it's because it's not really transposing the notes being triggered by the keys, instead it's actually shifting which MIDI Note commands are being sent from the keyboard to the tone generator. This MIDI shifting approach can be an advantage, if you're also triggering sounds in an external sound module, as it will keep all internal and external sounds at the same pitch. But in the more common scenario of having a sound with splits and no external module attached, it's not doing what you need. If you're playing a song with precisely defined split points, and a singer wants you to drop it x semitones, that's just the kind of thing I'd expect to be able to do with the Transpose button, without it messing up which sound will come out when I play the same parts I always play. But with the Yamaha Transpose function, if you play the same keys you always play, the shift point will now be in the wrong place and some of your notes will come out with the wrong sound.

The fix is to go into the menus and use NoteShift instead of the front panel Transpose buttons. But you have to do it for every sound that is part of your split setup (or in Yamaha vernacular, you have to do it for every Part in the Performance). All you want to do is hit a button, and instead you have to menu dive and perform the function multiple times. And if you happen to need to change to another Performance in the middle of the song, well, you can't, because the transposition will be gone. If it's a song you frequently need to transpose, you can set up saved Performances with these shifts in place. But if it's something being done on the fly (your singer is having a bad night, or a guest singer is coming up, etc.), you're out of luck.

Ideally, the Transpose button would be programmed to be smart enough to do note-shifts on all the internal parts while shifting the MIDI going out to the external devices. (In that case, if the external devices have splits, some parts might have the wrong sound on some keys, but that's no worse than the current situation, and better than having the entire part at the wrong pitch!) But the architecture might not support having the internal keys sending "different" MIDI to the internal tone generator vs. MIDI out. And if you only have a choice of one or the other, while Note Shift is probably what more people need more often, MIDI transpose is a useful function as well, so there still needs to be a way to do that. But I do wish there were at least an option that would allow the Transpose button to instead do a Note Shift on every Part.
Posted By: Mogut

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/16/18 09:37 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott

My even bigger issue with the Transpose function is that it doesn't maintain split points.


Boom! i hate that too!
Posted By: RudyS

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/16/18 11:39 PM

Originally Posted By: Mogut
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott

My even bigger issue with the Transpose function is that it doesn't maintain split points.


Boom! i hate that too!


My kurz pc3 did maintain the splitpoints. One of the many smart features of Kurzweil..
Posted By: miden

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/17/18 12:22 AM

Originally Posted By: RudyS
Originally Posted By: Mogut
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott

My even bigger issue with the Transpose function is that it doesn't maintain split points.


Boom! i hate that too!


My kurz pc3 did maintain the splitpoints. One of the many smart features of Kurzweil..


and Roland, and Korg and Casio and pretty much most of the controller brigade as well IIRC.

Ah well, Yamaha do like their "points of difference".
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/17/18 09:23 AM

Originally Posted By: miden
Ah well, Yamaha do like their "points of difference".

they do provide a noteshift function that changes the tuning while leaving the split point intact. Itís just not a panel button but its pretty easy to get to.

Besides, i thought the established consensus here was that transpose buttons arenít even allowed to be used? snax
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/17/18 10:01 AM

Originally Posted By: MotiDave
Originally Posted By: miden
Ah well, Yamaha do like their "points of difference".

they do provide a noteshift function that changes the tuning while leaving the split point intact. Itís just not a panel button but its pretty easy to get to.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought that that function had to be done part by part. So if you needed to transpose a 3-way split, you'd have to go to that menu screen and perform the function three times (more if you're using any layers with your splits). And you'd still have the problem that, if you need to call up another patch mid-song, it will not come in at the transposed pitch.
Posted By: Synthoid

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/17/18 10:15 AM

Originally Posted By: miden
Yamaha do like their "points of difference".


Just like Apple.
Posted By: Mogut

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/17/18 12:18 PM

Originally Posted By: MotiDave
Originally Posted By: miden
Ah well, Yamaha do like their "points of difference".

they do provide a noteshift function that changes the tuning while leaving the split point intact. Itís just not a panel button but its pretty easy to get to.

Besides, i thought the established consensus here was that transpose buttons arenít even allowed to be used? snax


pretty much any split needs an octave shift. So while editing splits in performance mode, using the octave panel buttons without shifting split point would be ideal rather than digging thru menus to find transpose parameter and scrolling 12.
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/17/18 06:22 PM

From the manual:

ďThe audio signals of the MODX can be output to the [USB TO HOST] terminal and the OUTPUT [L/MONO]/[R] jacks. When connecting to a computer, use the [USB TO HOST] terminal.Ē

So now Iím wondering if I can output audio through the USB TO HOST terminal of the MODX to the USB input of my active monitors.
Or do I really need to put a computer between them?
Posted By: miden

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/17/18 10:48 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: MotiDave
Originally Posted By: miden
Ah well, Yamaha do like their "points of difference".

they do provide a noteshift function that changes the tuning while leaving the split point intact. Itís just not a panel button but its pretty easy to get to.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought that that function had to be done part by part. So if you needed to transpose a 3-way split, you'd have to go to that menu screen and perform the function three times (more if you're using any layers with your splits). And you'd still have the problem that, if you need to call up another patch mid-song, it will not come in at the transposed pitch.


and further, if you need to re-pitch an instrument as you have it on say, the top 12 notes, all yamaha allow is -24, and with some instruments you do need -36 when playing that high.....So you need to get down to the element level and transpose those as well.
Posted By: wd8dky

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/17/18 11:02 PM

Transpose? I thought if you couldn't play every song in your setlist in every key, AS the singer calls audibles from the mic, that you weren't worthy to even read this forum...
Posted By: benj2017

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/18/18 01:02 AM

Originally Posted By: wd8dky
Transpose? I thought if you couldn't play every song in your setlist in every key, AS the singer calls audibles from the mic, that you weren't worthy to even read this forum...



Sounds like a typical gig with my band...
Posted By: mojkarma

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/18/18 03:52 AM

Originally Posted By: miden

and further, if you need to re-pitch an instrument as you have it on say, the top 12 notes, all yamaha allow is -24, and with some instruments you do need -36 when playing that high.....So you need to get down to the element level and transpose those as well.


This is indeed an old Yamaha problem. However, on the Montage/Modx it is not really that difficult to set the pitch (they call it note shift) on the element level because there is only a performance mode and changing something on the elements level doesn't require additional savings of a patch.
Saying that, the problem still exist because Yamaha refuses after so many years to increase the range, but doing additional note shifts on the element level is actually part of the same editing proces, it's much easier and faster compared to the older Motif line.
Posted By: MIDI2XS

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/18/18 10:03 AM

Not to be pedantic, but there seems to be some confusion over the terminology Yamaha uses and what "Transpose" and "Note Shift" actually do on Motif family models.

This might help (or further confuse/annoy)...
http://www.motifator.com/index.php/forum/viewthread/455226/
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/18/18 10:44 AM

Yamaha does have a penchant for using their own terminology for things that often runs counter to convention and/or to what a native English speaker might expect a word to mean. But yes, consistent with what I posted earlier, their Transpose function actually changes the MIDI note transmit values (which is what the Yamaha uses even internally between its own keys and its tone generator), whereas the function to change key is available in a menu via the NoteShft command. If you don't have a split, the audible result is the same. The issue is what happens when you have splits. Changing MIDI values means that the splits move to new keys, whereas keeping the MIDI values the same and instead changing the pitch of the notes you are triggering leaves the split points were they were.
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/18/18 03:57 PM

Originally Posted By: miden
and further, if you need to re-pitch an instrument as you have it on say, the top 12 notes, all yamaha allow is -24, and with some instruments you do need -36 when playing that high.....So you need to get down to the element level and transpose those as well.

you can do all of the above - which you do at what level is really based on what it is you need to do

- to make a global half-step tuning shift of everything you play, you go into Utilities and change the global coarse tuning a half step. this changes tune of everything without moving any split points.

- to change just one Performance (e.g. for one song) - if you want it permanent you'd tune the parts of that one song in the Performance at Part level. As noted, max note tune shift is +/- 24 half steps.

- to retune more than +/- 24 - you have to tune the Elements within a Part. you can these 36, combined with the 24 at the Part level you cam change tune a total of 5 octaves. if you need more than 5 octaves, you're doing something very unusual and i wish you well

Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/19/18 03:22 PM

Originally Posted By: Al Coda
Iīd want a Yammi MODX 1HU rack !
Originally Posted By: fjzingo
Guess they need to fix the midi implementation first........
I think the Roland Integra 7 rack module has the same kind of MIDI implementation (16 parts, each on a fixed MIDI channel)... and the Roland is well-liked as a module...
Posted By: KorgyPorky

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/19/18 04:19 PM


Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: Al Coda
Iīd want a Yammi MODX 1HU rack !
Originally Posted By: fjzingo
Guess they need to fix the midi implementation first........
I think the Roland Integra 7 rack module has the same kind of MIDI implementation (16 parts, each on a fixed MIDI channel)... and the Roland is well-liked as a module...


Not true, under part settings you can set rx chanel for eacht part in a studio set.
Studio set is what we call performances on yamaha montage/modx
The integra 7 is very very flexible.. and works very well together with both my kronos as well as the modx
Posted By: stoken6

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/19/18 05:56 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
and the Roland is well-liked as a module...


Come to that, the Roland IS a module, and you can't say that about much gear these days.

Cheers, Mike.
Posted By: burningbusch

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/19/18 07:55 PM

An update on the looping issue. I got a response back from Melas stating the Motif/Montage have an issue that if a WAV contains any audio after the loop, this can create audible artifacts. So I went through, re-edited everything, made sure there is nothing after the loop both in Wavelab and in the Melas Waveform Editor and I'm still getting artifacts that don't show up when the WAVs are played back on the computer or when saved as an X7U in SampleRobot. So something else is amiss. I've spent far too much time on this issue. SampleRobot can function as a tool to bring in WAVs, create waveforms (Yamaha-speak for multi-samples) and then export those as an X7U. But it's not as versatile for doing that as is the Melas Editor. But at least the results are good.

Here's an example of the issue:

Looping Issue: 1st SampleRobot - 2nd Melas Editor

Busch.
Posted By: Bobby Simons

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/19/18 08:33 PM

I went down to play the MODX for the 4th time today. I absolutely love the sounds, I canít come to terms with the action. I want to, badly - I just canít.

This could get expensive.
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/20/18 12:42 AM

Originally Posted By: Bobby Simons
I went down to play the MODX for the 4th time today. I absolutely love the sounds, I canít come to terms with the action. I want to, badly - I just canít.

This could get expensive.

Did you check the MODX8?
Posted By: Bobby Simons

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/20/18 01:07 AM

Yes, the 8.
Posted By: Manolios

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/20/18 03:15 AM

Hey guys, yesterday I received the MODX8 from Thomann and, for the first time ever, I returned something on the same day.

Absolutely hated the action, at first I actually thought there must be something wrong with the settings, but...

I did expect something of lower quality than my CP4, of course, but it is unacceptable for me; even after setting the velocity curve to ďsoftĒ I wasnít able to bring out single notes in my chords and such things, the samples just didnĎt come to life like it sounded when pressing the audition button. Itís also very unpleasant and heavy to play deeper or higher on the keys.

Iím very dissapointed because I really really wanted to like it.
Posted By: Legatoboy

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/20/18 09:16 AM

Originally Posted By: Fleer
Originally Posted By: Bobby Simons
I went down to play the MODX for the 4th time today. I absolutely love the sounds, I can’t come to terms with the action. I want to, badly - I just can’t.

This could get expensive.

Did you check the MODX8?


Even though my MX-88 purchase a year and a half ago was sort of a buy on my 2nd line gear meaning gear I may use on small pick up gigs I could not play piano or synth on that action...and I really tried to like it because the sounds were all Motif and very good really. Though the cheaper DAC's seemed evident in their also upon playing and listening.

I must admit when I check out the MODX-8 it was much better than the MX-88 implementation. I understood the better response on that board compared to the MX-88 was due to the sound engine, not the action itself as soon as I played in GC and immediately when I touched it with a piano patch on the MODX8...I said boy how much better is this than the MX..but that was a relational response to the MX-88 experience only and the cost was factored in. I defiantly would have considered the MODX8 more than the MX-88....but I play a lot of piano on gigs about 70 % of the time actually. You do get cognitive dissonance when comparing this stuff and the series of events makes that happen with the stuff you try and when you compare instruments (just a side note).

So, in the MODX8 it isn't half as bad as on the MX-88 which they touted as being 'married' to the MX soundset especially for pianos which after some time made me laugh as Blake Angelis and the others did their video run throughs after the release...


I bought the MX-88 without playing it and just based on the videos which I try never to do but like a dope I did. So when the SP-6 came out with Kurzweil's new piano sample I had immediately hatched a plan to try it somewhere (I didn't/couldn't anywhere). I do like the way the old triple strike sat in the mix sonically in my old SP-76 and PC3 I played on gigs as backlines. Folks also responded to it over the Yamaha sound which always confused me a bit because the old triple strike piano sound itself was not very authentic in many ways. But it did hold it's own sonic wise even with the guitars and all the freq. cancellation going on, it still held it's sonic space in the mix somehow (Kurzweil mid- range) Ö.And in that it responded more like a real piano some, all true about Kurzweils and that...not a myth. So I did it again and how bought the SP-6 un-auditioned... and kept my fingers crossed. But it worked out, I'm digging it.
The pianos have character.

Anyway, the GHS, at least in the MX and now maybe in the MODX is a disappointment for me and others looks like. I don't mind it in my P95 for some reason.. How the keybeds and the sound sources marry is really the key to this stuff Ö.This has been known for years even with old vintage synths and controllers. The MODX8 is still not bad compared to the MX-88 but for $1800+... I'd probably want a better action. Just one step up really would do it.


Very happy so far with the SP-6's Medeli action...but even there....wish it was a just a tad more responsive...but for almost the same coin...much much better than the MX-88! .But it's under $1300 USD.

I'm starting to really feel all the MFG's are not 100% sure how their action choices are going to work in the final product married to the sound sources..or maybe they do and the cost margins are at play. Almost seems like a toss up sometimes when they start designing this stuff...

Really they can't design a keybed for each new instrument/soundsource but they probably should in an ideal world.
Posted By: Bobby Simons

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/20/18 10:13 AM

Originally Posted By: Manolios
. . . Itís also very unpleasant and heavy to play deeper or higher on the keys. . .

Interesting that you say that, thatís how I would generally describe the action. I had the sensation of playing high on the keys, even when I wasnít.

My other complaint extends to the Montage and the entire Yamaha line: how the hell are they STILL so remarkably clueless in regards to tonewheel organ expectations? Itís maddening.
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/20/18 11:07 AM

Interesting indeed.
I find the Yamaha GHS action (in the MOXF8 and MODX8) to be one of the lightest hammer actions around, great for piano but also very playable for synth (and strings). Itís actually one of the few actions that allow for a middle way. Not perfect for piano, neither for synth, but ideal if you regularly play both.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/20/18 02:56 PM

Originally Posted By: Bobby Simons
My other complaint extends to the Montage and the entire Yamaha line: how the hell are they STILL so remarkably clueless in regards to tonewheel organ expectations? Itís maddening.

OTOH, I don't think they're worse than other rompler organs. If you need something with a clonewheel engine, this just is not the board to buy.
Posted By: lsj

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/20/18 03:02 PM

I totally agree with you. just received my modx6 and I like the keybed. I am basically a Hammond plyer. real Hammond not a clone. playing a true Hammond organ, the feel is totally different than playing a piano or synth. I adapt to what I am playing. I wouldn't want a keybed like a piano touch to play strings, horns, organ, synth,etc. I am interested only in the sounds that the synth has. someone will always want more, and have complaints from a new product....Larry
Posted By: zephonic

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/20/18 04:07 PM

Iím not yet convinced by MODX8 as a live instrument. It sounds fabulous on studio monitors, but it requires much more tweaking to get it to work live. And the position of the volume knob is almost a dealbreaker. The +6dB isnít enough to get the levels to match the Krome, the +12dB feels a little hot.

Good thing is its flexibility, and the ease of use. Setting up performances and live sets is almost self-explanatory. I need to further study how parts are broken down into elements, though.

It does make me want to get a 7, but Iím thinking maybe I should go whole hog Montage 7, then. Getting my aftertouch back would be great, but the ultra-portability of the MODX7 is definitely a big factor.

Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/20/18 04:53 PM

Any more thoughts on the MODX8 keybed, zephonic?
Posted By: gg22

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/20/18 05:34 PM

Originally Posted By: Fleer
Any more thoughts on the MODX8 keybed, zephonic?


The MODX8 keybed is fine, I just played it. It's the same GHS as in MOXF8, P95, MX88, etc. Play any of those boards and you'll have the idea.
Sounds great though, even organs are OK.
Posted By: zephonic

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/20/18 05:40 PM

Originally Posted By: Fleer
Any more thoughts on the MODX8 keybed, zephonic?


I donít love it, but I can live with it.
Posted By: CEB

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/20/18 06:29 PM

I played the 8 today. I don't know...... Not knowing my way around the board is an issue but I find it hard to audition. I actually like my old S90Xs better for digging down to the basic sounds.
Posted By: GregC

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/20/18 06:42 PM

There have been +10,000 posts on keyboard action here.

There should be some effort to help ' quantify ' all the statements or impressions.

Then , when a new board arrives, a baseline can be applied.

This is not meant to be hair splitting- more of a guide.

I will start(10 is perfect);

Korg Kronos RH3 on the 88 and 73 model: 8.0
Roland FA-07: 7.5
Roland A50: 9.8
Roland FA-06: 3.0
Roland GX/NX Stage: 9.5
Korg Extreme 76: 7.0
Yamaha XS 76: 7.5

Posted By: The_Star_Guy

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/20/18 07:02 PM

Originally Posted By: zephonic
Iím not yet convinced by MODX8 as a live instrument. It sounds fabulous on studio monitors, but it requires much more tweaking to get it to work live. And the position of the volume knob is almost a dealbreaker. The +6dB isnít enough to get the levels to match the Krome, the +12dB feels a little hot.

Good thing is its flexibility, and the ease of use.

It does make me want to get a 7, but Iím thinking maybe I should go whole hog Montage 7, then. Getting my aftertouch back would be great, but the ultra-portability of the MODX7 is definitely a big factor.



I am kind of in this camp also, because I currently have a Motif ES7 which has great action & features and not really that far back sonically either. Nothing that I have seen in the MODX justifies dumping the Motif ES, as I would be losing workflow functionality & flexibility. The weighted keyboard actually hinders playing certain synth parts, so I am focusing on either adding a MODX7 down the line for gigging only, or upgrading everything and holding out for a Montage 7 on clearance someday.
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/20/18 07:44 PM

Originally Posted By: GregC
There have been +10,000 posts on keyboard action here.

There should be some effort to help ' quantify ' all the statements or impressions.

Then , when a new board arrives, a baseline can be applied.

This is not meant to be hair splitting- more of a guide.

I will start(10 is perfect);

Korg Kronos RH3 on the 88 and 73 model: 8.0
Roland FA-07: 7.5
Roland A50: 9.8
Roland FA-06: 3.0
Roland GX/NX Stage: 9.5
Korg Extreme 76: 7.0
Yamaha XS 76: 7.5


Good idea, but maybe best to split them up into two categories: piano versus synth/organ ?
Posted By: GregC

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/20/18 09:02 PM

it could go either way. Its up to consensus.

I think most know if a keyboard is synth ( unweighed) vs piano (weighed).

Getting 15-20 opinions/# rating per board, than keeping an average would get us to a fair guide.

I can keep score on Excel for the time being if anyone thinks a keybed guide has merit
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/20/18 10:00 PM

Great. Would love to hear from AnotherScott.
Posted By: miden

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/20/18 10:09 PM

Originally Posted By: GregC
it could go either way. Its up to consensus.

I think most know if a keyboard is synth ( unweighed) vs piano (weighed).

Getting 15-20 opinions/# rating per board, than keeping an average would get us to a fair guide.

I can keep score on Excel for the time being if anyone thinks a keybed guide has merit


I agree with the thought there should be one for fully weighteds and one for the rest.
Posted By: GregC

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/20/18 10:49 PM

Its easy enough.

as far as keybed description;

Fully weighed

Everything else ( since there is some variation here)

I am open to a better column describers.

It would be great if the forum had a 'files ' section. So I can or the mod
can upload the file, keep it current.
Or maybe someone wants to offer there web site to store it.

Of course, we still need more buy in , if this work is worth doing.
Hopefully, I am not creating a bunch of work. I like simple.

Thanks
Posted By: Moonglow

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/20/18 11:17 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: Bobby Simons
My other complaint extends to the Montage and the entire Yamaha line: how the hell are they STILL so remarkably clueless in regards to tonewheel organ expectations? Itís maddening.

OTOH, I don't think they're worse than other rompler organs. If you need something with a clonewheel engine, this just is not the board to buy.

For me the truly maddening aspect is that Yamaha has better organs, as evidenced by the Reface YC. One would think this would have somehow found its way into their flagship line.
Posted By: CEB

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/21/18 12:43 AM

Crazy thing in my current rig I miss the Motif organs. The work great in current Pop band layers. The Kronos and FA Roland patches don't work as well. They try to hard to sound like Hammonds.
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/21/18 10:02 AM

Those updated organs in the Montage/MODX sound pretty good to me: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fYxPtmayoCM
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/21/18 11:12 AM

Originally Posted By: Moonglow
For me the truly maddening aspect is that Yamaha has better organs, as evidenced by the Reface YC. One would think this would have somehow found its way into their flagship line.

It's a fair point. Even if it might have added hundreds to the retail price (say, if they literally built the separate Reface YC electronics into the chassis), it's arguably still a compelling design. One thing they could do which might be interesting is to update the Montage/MODX OS so that it could send patches to an actual Reface, so you could buy a YC essentially as an external module and still call up its presets in tandem with the board's own sounds (i.e. a Performance would be able to include sending a separate set of parameters to a Reface, so you wouldn't have to separately call up a Reface sound with an iOS device).

Originally Posted By: CEB
Crazy thing in my current rig I miss the Motif organs. The work great in current Pop band layers. The Kronos and FA Roland patches don't work as well.

Yeah, sometimes rompler organs can still give you what you need (I've mentioned how much I liked one in the old S30). Have you tried calling up the non-clonewheel engine organ sounds in those other boards? i.e. the non-CX3 (HD1) organ sounds in the Kronos, or the non-SuperNatural organ sounds of the FA? For the latter, I know some people have liked SRX expansion organ sounds, e.g. SRX-07 which is axial EXP-02.

Originally Posted By: Fleer
Those updated organs in the Montage/MODX sound pretty good to me

To me, as a rock player, the worst thing about the Montage/MODX organ is the overdrive, which is even worse with leslie transitions. At least sometimes it kind of sounds like the Leslie is affecting the clean sound and they are overlaying the distorted organ sound on top of it. If I needed quality organ and really didn't want to have to go to a second board for it, I'd be inclined to split my sounds to different outputs, disable any internal rotary/overdrive effects on the organ patches, and run them to a Vent or other sim, which would probably give me a perfectly usable organ. On a Montage, with its additional outs, I could still keep everything else stereo (and even have another out for dedicated LH bass if I wanted)... on the MODX I'd have to run dual mono (organ on one channel, other sounds out the other). There's an FA feature I really wish the MODX had.
Posted By: lsj

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/21/18 12:42 PM

try the organimation library. just ordered it sounds pretty damn good.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/21/18 01:37 PM

Originally Posted By: GregC
There have been +10,000 posts on keyboard action here.

There should be some effort to help ' quantify ' all the statements or impressions.

Then , when a new board arrives, a baseline can be applied.

This is not meant to be hair splitting- more of a guide.

I will start(10 is perfect);

You should start a new thread for this. It's OT for MODX, and lots of people who could be interested won't find it here.
Posted By: LarsHarner

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/21/18 06:57 PM

As someone who currently has a Krome 61 (mainly used for acoustic piano/Rhodes/B3's and drums)- what would be some of the benefits of having the Modx6?
I did have an original Motif6 in the early 2000's-2010; would the ModX offer perhaps better interfacing with my DAW etc... It is very tempting as I can get on for $1040 but then again it could be gas for me.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/21/18 07:50 PM

Originally Posted By: LarsHarner
As someone who currently has a Krome 61 (mainly used for acoustic piano/Rhodes/B3's and drums)- what would be some of the benefits of having the Modx6?

Seamless sound switching. Better (albeit still not great) action, esp. for piano sounds, because the keys feel more consistent from front to rear. More real-time knobs/sliders. FM synthesizer. Custom sample loading. More polyphony. More simultaneous effects. But a lot of it could also be whether or not you think it sounds better, specifically for the sounds you most use, which is subjective. I mean, for piano/Rhodes/B3 and drums in a relatively inexpensive 61, you could also make a case for the Roland VR-09B, despite its being far more limited than the Krome or MODX in other ways.
Posted By: CowboyNQ

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/21/18 09:07 PM

Originally Posted By: LarsHarner
As someone who currently has a Krome 61 (mainly used for acoustic piano/Rhodes/B3's and drums)- what would be some of the benefits of having the Modx6?

Lars, I also am a Krome 61 user and got my first play with the MODX6 this week in store. I really liked it and I agree with all Scott's points above so won't repeat them.

The action (to me) felt almost identical to the Krome, same wobbly noisy squishy experience, however the hinge point of the keys is better.

To provide some counterpoint, the reasons I won't change are: Love the Krome sound (don't use it for EP though and acknowledge organs are not amazing), I speak Korg far better than I speak Yamaha, I can't justify AUD1600 for what (for me) would be the most minor of upgrades. Then there's the time spent learning and programming the thing, which I also consider as part of my investment decision.

I'm also a bit of a "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" kind of chap. The Krome has never let me down.

All of the above said, I see no reason the MODX wouldn't make an excellent gigging weapon. If you like the Korg I reckon you'd be pretty happy with the Yamaha too.
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/21/18 09:31 PM

Been playing my MODX8 for an extended time this Sunday. Really like this keyboard. The action is what I was hoping and looking for. Not heavy at all, mighty fine for piano and very sweet for synth, strings and guitar. Meanwhile, loving those deeply moving MODX sounds. And that side chaining fun.
Output volume on headphones could be a bit higher, though quite OK.
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/21/18 11:25 PM

Been playing my MODX7 for a bit more this weekend - really like it, thrilled with the addition. Ready to gig with it, though havenít put some of its advanced motion sound into action yet. I could just have GAS in my ears but it sounds really good - better than Motif XF or MOXF.

Debuts next Sat in a back-to-backer double header.
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/22/18 01:35 AM

That MODX7 will surely be great for gigging!
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/22/18 03:05 PM

Originally Posted By: Fleer
From the manual:

ďThe audio signals of the MODX can be output to the [USB TO HOST] terminal and the OUTPUT [L/MONO]/[R] jacks. When connecting to a computer, use the [USB TO HOST] terminal.Ē

So now Iím wondering if I can output audio through the USB TO HOST terminal of the MODX to the USB input of my active monitors.
Or do I really need to put a computer between them?

A quick follow up.
Hooked the MODX8 up to a pair of Dynaudio Xeo4 active speakers through the wireless hub using the regular outs. No latency at all when playing live (or auditions).
Two more connection paths to check:
- MODX USB out to my computer and then to the Dynaudio wireless hub
- MODX USB out straight to the hubís USB in.
Really hoping the latter will work.
Posted By: Rikk

Re: Yamaha MODX volume out put - 10/22/18 03:08 PM

I posted in the wrong tread so here I go again
Has anyone been having problems with the out put volume of the Yamaha Modx 7? How can I increase it?
Thanks
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX volume out put - 10/22/18 05:21 PM

Originally Posted By: Rikk
I posted in the wrong tread so here I go again
Has anyone been having problems with the out put volume of the Yamaha Modx 7? How can I increase it?
Thanks

Just got this reply from Stevie18 over at YamahaMusicians:
ďDon't blame me if you blow your ears away: Utility -> Audio I/O -> Main L&R to +6db or even +12 db should give you enough for that...Ē
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX volume out put - 10/22/18 09:37 PM

I went for +12 dB myself.
Glorious. Happy to see my monitors easily handling it. Same goes for headphones. Simply glorious.
Any reason not to use this option apart from ear damage?
Forgive me my ignorance, but would adding 12dB automatically induce distortion or other artifacts?
Posted By: HSS

Re: Yamaha MODX volume out put - 10/23/18 02:26 AM

Originally Posted By: Fleer
Originally Posted By: Rikk
I posted in the wrong tread so here I go again
Has anyone been having problems with the out put volume of the Yamaha Modx 7? How can I increase it?
Thanks

Just got this reply from Stevie18 over at YamahaMusicians:
ďDon't blame me if you blow your ears away: Utility -> Audio I/O -> Main L&R to +6db or even +12 db should give you enough for that...Ē
OT: I have an MX88 and, unless I'm missing it, I don't see this option of boosting the MX's low output volume in Utilities or anywhere else in the menus for that matter. My inefficient workaround is to uniformly boost the EQ's gain for a voice and save the edited voice to a performance.

It's good to hear that the option of boosting output volume is available for the MODX boards, along with the ability to split / layer 4 (or 8?) zones and mix them in real time with sliders and knobs. The MX can only do two zones in real time without hooking it up to computer and using a software editor.

A MODX may be in my future. I need to get to the local Shitar Center and try one out.
Posted By: Dreamchilde

Re: Yamaha MODX volume out put - 10/23/18 02:13 PM

Originally Posted By: HSS
Originally Posted By: Fleer
Originally Posted By: Rikk
I posted in the wrong tread so here I go again
Has anyone been having problems with the out put volume of the Yamaha Modx 7? How can I increase it?
Thanks

Just got this reply from Stevie18 over at YamahaMusicians:
ďDon't blame me if you blow your ears away: Utility -> Audio I/O -> Main L&R to +6db or even +12 db should give you enough for that...Ē
OT: I have an MX88 and, unless I'm missing it, I don't see this option of boosting the MX's low output volume in Utilities or anywhere else in the menus for that matter. My inefficient workaround is to uniformly boost the EQ's gain for a voice and save the edited voice to a performance.

It's good to hear that the option of boosting output volume is available for the MODX boards, along with the ability to split / layer 4 (or 8?) zones and mix them in real time with sliders and knobs. The MX can only do two zones in real time without hooking it up to computer and using a software editor.

A MODX may be in my future. I need to get to the local Shitar Center and try one out.


Yamaha addressed the output issue on the MX with a software update. They Raised the volume of the OUTPUT [L/MONO]/[R] jacks and the [PHONES] jack by 6dB.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX volume out put - 10/23/18 02:20 PM

Originally Posted By: Dreamchilde
Yamaha addressed the output issue on the MX with a software update. They Raised the volume of the OUTPUT [L/MONO]/[R] jacks and the [PHONES] jack by 6dB.

That was a long time ago, for the original MX, pre-dating the MX88. By the time the MX88 shipped, they wouldn't have been shipping the older firmware.
Posted By: HSS

Re: Yamaha MODX volume out put - 10/23/18 02:53 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: Dreamchilde
Yamaha addressed the output issue on the MX with a software update. They Raised the volume of the OUTPUT [L/MONO]/[R] jacks and the [PHONES] jack by 6dB.

That was a long time ago, for the original MX, pre-dating the MX88. By the time the MX88 shipped, they wouldn't have been shipping the older firmware.
OK... Thanks. Despite the original MX's update of a 6db volume boost, my MX88's output is still low relative to all of my other boards but it's workable for live gigs as long as I accommodate accordingly. FWIW... In addition to the MX88, I currently have Kurz SP4-7, Roland RD300GX, Hammond SK1/2, Nord 5d, and Casio PX330 boards and they all have noticeably hotter outputs.

Based on a couple of earlier posts in this thread, it sounds like the MODX has addressed this issue by having an option to boost output volume by up to 12db which should be plenty for live use. I'll download the manual and verify because the MODX8 or 7(?) ticks all of my boxes for a bottom board below either my Hammond SK1 or Nord 5d.
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX volume out put - 10/23/18 03:59 PM

I went with +6dB on my MODX7. haven't tried in live gig situation yet, but I'm getting strong (rock n roll) output to headphones at volume knob at 50% or less.

Agree with prior observer that the placement and knob for volume is not ideal. I preferred a slider and prefer it lower nearer the keys. There are other knobs I'd put up there that I don't use as much as main volume knob.

niggles, i'll get used to it. love this board so far!
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX volume out put - 10/23/18 06:05 PM

Cheers.
Think Iíll take that boost back to +6dB (from +12dB) in order to not damage D/A.
Posted By: Bucktunes

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/24/18 12:45 AM

Originally Posted By: Bucktunes
The essence of a Montage 8 (for me, anyway) for less than half the price and weight?! I've been saving for the Montage 8, but this could shorten my saving time. love drool I just wonder if the difference in DAC converters mentioned earlier makes a noticeable difference in the sound quality. That would be the only reason to keep saving, IMO.


Okay, I was In St. Louis Saturday and got a chance to dig into a MODX8 for a while. Actually, two stores had one set up. One had it set up with the mono output plugged into a Roland KC amp... sick Somehow it still managed to sound good enough to keep me intrigued for a while. rockit The other store had one set up properly through a pair of Yamaha HS8 speakers, but still didnít have a foot pedal set up to control the superknob. Needless to say, this one was much more enjoyable to play. smile

Anyway...long story short, Iíve concluded there will definitely be a MODX8 in my near future. cool The weighted keys feel just fine, and Iíll forgive the lack of aftertouch since I rarely use it with weighted keys, anyway. The sounds were stellar once I heard them through proper speakers. If thereís a difference in sound quality between this and the big daddy Montage, I couldnít hear it. love Even without the extra buttons I had no problem finding my way around the sounds using the big touchscreen. Although the framework was lightweight plastic, it felt solid. Not at all fragile or flimsy, but I guess time will tell how durable it proves to be.

Nice job, Yamaha! twothumbs Now I just have to figure out what Iím going to do with the $2K Iíll be saving! laugh
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/24/18 01:07 AM

Congrats, Steve. Great choice!
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/24/18 11:09 AM

One thing Iím noticing is a few Parts (Voices) in Performances I transferred over from MOXF are slightly clipping. Need to drop the Part vol level, but that means adjusting all other parts an equal amount. As I try to set all Performances at the correct gig volume level that means adjust not just Parts in 1 Perf, but every Perf. Ugh ... one mistake i made originally in XF (carried to MOXF) was set some parts too hot in order to get stronger L/R output. Turns out thats not the best place to fix fundamental gain deficiency lol smile. Iím living, iím learning ...

OT: Another odd thing i noticed is the first Part in a transferred Performance is named the name of the Perf, not the Voice in part 1. Remaining Parts 2, 3, 4 bring over the Voice name, but not Part 1. Weird ... not that it matters much but ... weird.
Posted By: yamoho

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/24/18 11:30 PM

manuals finally available...

MODX manuals
Posted By: yamoho

Re: Yamaha MODX - 10/24/18 11:31 PM

oops, wrong board...

Originally Posted By: yamoho
manuals finally available...

MODX manuals
Posted By: Rikk

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 10/25/18 01:51 PM

how can I change or add effects on live performances on modx 7
and can I use the assign knobs(4) for effects
Thanks
Im new at this....as you can tell
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 10/25/18 02:58 PM

Originally Posted By: Rikk
how can I change or add effects on live performances on modx 7
and can I use the assign knobs(4) for effects
Thanks
Im new at this....as you can tell


you have effects at both Performance level and each Part. Not at my board right now - i'd look at the Owner manual or Ref Manual. You need to edit at the level you want to change, Effects will be one of the buttons you can select to dive into that section.
Posted By: burningbusch

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 10/25/18 04:05 PM

Originally Posted By: MotiDave
Originally Posted By: Rikk
how can I change or add effects on live performances on modx 7
and can I use the assign knobs(4) for effects
Thanks
Im new at this....as you can tell


you have effects at both Performance level and each Part. Not at my board right now - i'd look at the Owner manual or Ref Manual. You need to edit at the level you want to change, Effects will be one of the buttons you can select to dive into that section.


Setting up FXs on the Montage/MODX ain't like a Nord so it requires some work. Yes the knobs can be used to control the FXs.

Probably the best thing is for you to provide an example of a performance you want to change/add the FXs to and then people can help out on the specifics.

Busch.
Posted By: miden

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 10/25/18 10:14 PM

One thing I am liking about editing on the MODX is I can play around with any of the knobs and sliders (when in a sound EDIT screen and use them "live and dynamically" without needing to go menu diving! I only go into that when I need to change the actual effect being used.

Although I am supposing that is pretty much how most of 'em work, just saying I find it really quick and easy for editing. Apart from a couple of quirks, i am really liking this one!

Only tiny niggle, is that the keybed is starting to get the same rattley/knocking sounds of the old MOXF et al GHS keybeds. It was great for the first week or so, but it's starting to "wear" now. Nothing major, just more of a minor annoyance really. And NOT as loud as the PX-5s keybed though smile
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 10/26/18 01:01 AM

Sorry to hear that. No rattling/knocking sounds on my MODX8 though.
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 10/26/18 09:39 AM

Then again, are keys on the MODX6/7 always this noisy?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ir0YX9XqdfI&feature=youtu.be
Posted By: pjd

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 10/26/18 09:56 AM

Originally Posted By: Rikk
How can I change or add effects on live performances on modx 7? and can I use the assign knobs(4) for effects
Thanks


Hi --

Here's two examples that might help you out:

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/easy-modx-super-knob-example/
http://sandsoftwaresound.net/yamaha-modx-creating-a-split/

The CONTROL ASSIGN button is your friend. You can assign a knob, including the Super Knob, to Performance and Part parameters. It operates like "learn mode" in other instruments/controllers.

The first article above shows how easy it is to assign the Super Knob (or any of the other knobs). The second half of the second article demonstrates how to change the reverb type and, potentially, any of the reverb parameters. If you put 2 and 2 together, you should be golden. :-)

All the best -- pj

Music technology blog: http://sandsoftwaresound.net/
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 10/26/18 10:29 AM

I took a case back to GC I ordered for MODX7 (GTSA-KEY76, FYI - i find it way too big). I sat and played MODX8, idunno if iím just way too used to synth action but it is felt heavy and slow for me. I was playing piano pieces, it just feels sluggish. Iím prob too used to synth/SW action.

FYI Case Update- I received SKB-5014W 76 ATA case for my 7. Specs say it is too shallow but its not, it fits fine. Smaller and a bit lighter than the Gator case, still has some room for cords or pedals if you so desire (iíd find a way to ensure they are secured down). its a keeper for me for travel shows to go with my soft bag for local gigs. Not cheap though but whatís the value to fly to a gig and know your keyboard wasnít broken by angry monkeys enroute? Worth enough to me ...
Posted By: ShadowMan

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 10/26/18 02:38 PM

I have been using the same SKB 5014W since the late 90's. Still rock solid with original latches and wheels. Can't kill it.

Same case - now on its 5th keyboard!
Posted By: rickzjamm

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 10/26/18 04:30 PM

Didn't read through the whole thread book so forgive me if this has been asked already. Are the transitions between sounds seamless or chopped like the MOXF8?
Posted By: zephonic

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 10/26/18 04:36 PM

Originally Posted By: MotiDave
I took a case back to GC I ordered for MODX7 (GTSA-KEY76, FYI - i find it way too big). I sat and played MODX8, idunno if iím just way too used to synth action but it is felt heavy and slow for me. I was playing piano pieces, it just feels sluggish. Iím prob too used to synth/SW action.


No, I feel that way about every GHS board I have owned or played.

But itís not a dealbreaker, you just learn to adjust to and live with it. It sure would be nice if Yamaha put the GH in the next gen, though. At this price point that doesnít feel like an unreasonable request.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 10/26/18 04:37 PM

Originally Posted By: rickzjamm
Are the transitions between sounds seamless or chopped like the MOXF8?

Transitions are seamless as long as neither the sounds you are switching FROM nor TO have more than 4 Parts.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 10/26/18 04:41 PM

Originally Posted By: zephonic
It sure would be nice if Yamaha put the GH in the next gen, though. At this price point that doesnít feel like an unreasonable request.

Well, assuming it's a more expensive action, than either they'd have to raise the price, or take something else out. The bigger issue might be that the board would probably weigh more, which would reduce its gig appeal in another way.
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 10/26/18 09:37 PM

Donít forget GH is heavier than GHS.
Any more thoughts on its longevity?
Posted By: Bobby Simons

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 10/26/18 09:40 PM

Iíve gone five times, to two different stores, to play the MODX. It sounds unbelievable, Iím in love with the whole approach. Iím sold.

Iím getting the Montage.
Posted By: zephonic

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 10/27/18 06:18 AM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: zephonic
It sure would be nice if Yamaha put the GH in the next gen, though. At this price point that doesnít feel like an unreasonable request.

Well, assuming it's a more expensive action, than either they'd have to raise the price, or take something else out. The bigger issue might be that the board would probably weigh more, which would reduce its gig appeal in another way.



These things aren't sum of parts. They set a price point they want to hit and see how much stuff they can cram in. The original MO8 had the Motif's BH action and it was heavier than its successors, but cheaper. I assume they stuck the GHS in the MOX8 to save weight, but also increase margins.

Cheaper instruments with the GH action include the P140/155/255, CP33/40/50. None of these are particularly heavy, and the P series carry on-board amps and speakers. Price-wise, these are all mid-tier instruments.

This has me convinced Yamaha can add the GH action with acceptable weight increase and retain reasonable margins, without extra cost for the customer.


I really feel the GHS has no business being in a $1900 keyboard. It's fine for the MX88 and P115 or whatever, but instruments in this price range should have the next step up.

Like I said, it's not a dealbreaker, but with the demise of the S-series, the MODX is clearly the successor to both the MOXF8 and S90XS. Its price reflects that. Not having the GH is a missed opportunity, as it would have made this a worthy alternative to the S-series.
Posted By: zephonic

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 10/27/18 07:04 AM

But with all that, I have to say I have really warmed up to the BŲsendorfer sample. Itís easy to play dynamically, you really have a wide range of volume at your fingertips.

Even with the GHS, lol

Seriously, even the CFX isnít far behind the Bosie. I donít think I have ever experienced this level of dynamics in a DP. Same goes for the clavinets, too.

I still need more time to get completely familiar with it, but the UI is actually fairly transparent, and the sound quality is really great (once you get past the low output levels).
However, the presets were made to sound great on studio monitors and headphones. For a typical band situation, youíll need to tweak to get it to work.
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 10/27/18 09:23 AM

This dedicated pianist and teacher argues against Yamahaís GH action.
He adamantly prefers GHS:
ďI recommend any Yamaha with the Graded Hammer Standard (GHS) action. The GHS all have properly-weighted actions, feel smooth to play, and sound great. I donít recommend any of the mid-level Yamahas, simply because the actions are much heavier than whatís generally considered ideal.Ē (https://steveescoffery.com/digital-piano-buying-guide-from-piano-teacher/#best-yamaha-digital-pianos)
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 10/27/18 11:11 AM

Originally Posted By: zephonic
Cheaper instruments with the GH action include the P140/155/255, CP33/40/50. None of these are particularly heavy, and the P series carry on-board amps and speakers.

though they also all have a lot less in the way of capabilities/electronics/ controls than the MODX. I would also disagree that none are particularly heavy. The lightest is the CP40 at 36 lbs, all the rest are more in the 40 lb range, which makes a big difference compared to the MODX8 at about 30. It's an interesting question, even IF they could have put in the GH action at the same price (or even at a small increase of say $100), whether they would sell more or fewer MODX8 if it had a GH action but weighed 40+ lbs. (The MO8 weighed 46 lbs.)
Posted By: FJR

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 10/27/18 11:20 AM


I wonder how much of the CP40/Montage weight is due to the base, which is a big hunk of pressboard! How much would the montage weigh if it were in the plastic MODX case?
Posted By: burningbusch

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 10/27/18 11:58 AM

If you've ever pulled out the action from something like a Rhodes/Roland MK-80, you get a sense of how much the action itself contributes to the total weight of those instruments. The individual key action weights add up quickly. But, judging from the feel of these physically heavier actions, I get a sense that the depressing and return of a key is close to a pure gravity play vs. the lighter actions which use other means, e.g. springs, to simulate the resistance of gravity and that the smaller, lighter weights play less of a role.

Busch.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 10/27/18 12:37 PM

Originally Posted By: FJR
I wonder how much of the CP40/Montage weight is due to the base, which is a big hunk of pressboard! How much would the montage weigh if it were in the plastic MODX case?

It's also possible that the plastic MODX chassis itself would need to be designed differently to support the weight of a heavier keyboard assembly, and might be heavier than the current casing, even if not as heavy as the metal/pressboard equivalents.

Originally Posted By: burningbusch
But, judging from the feel of these physically heavier actions, I get a sense that the depressing and return of a key is close to a pure gravity play vs. the lighter actions which use other means, e.g. springs, to simulate the resistance of gravity and that the smaller, lighter weights play less of a role.

The weights in the keys are just one variable. Some others would be how big the keys are (better keys are generally deeper, with more distant pivot points), and what materials are used (i.e. wooden keys vs. entirely plastic... and perhaps even among plastic keys, things like the thickness of the plastic used). Related, sometimes keys that feel lighter to play can still actually be heavier. Yamaha CP1/CP5 and Roland FP7/FP7F had lighter feeling actions than what they were using in much lighter boards.
Posted By: zephonic

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 10/27/18 12:51 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: zephonic
Cheaper instruments with the GH action include the P140/155/255, CP33/40/50. None of these are particularly heavy, and the P series carry on-board amps and speakers.

though they also all have a lot less in the way of capabilities/electronics/ controls than the MODX. I would also disagree that none are particularly heavy. The lightest is the CP40 at 36 lbs, all the rest are more in the 40 lb range, which makes a big difference compared to the MODX8 at about 30. It's an interesting question, even IF they could have put in the GH action at the same price (or even at a small increase of say $100), whether they would sell more or fewer MODX8 if it had a GH action but weighed 40+ lbs. (The MO8 weighed 46 lbs.)


The CP40 is indeed 36 lbs, the P255 (with amps and speakers) is 38 lbs. Those are the most recent models with the GH. I donít see why they could not make a MODX successor under 40 lbs. That would make it as heavy as the Nord Piano (all metal with internal PSU) and that felt super-portable to me.

But sure, while some may feel like I do, others might prefer the weight savings of the GHS.

Heck, in spite of all my ramblings, I bought one as soon as it came out. So I doubt Yamaha will change the formula.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 10/27/18 01:31 PM

Originally Posted By: zephonic
the P255 (with amps and speakers) is 38 lbs. Those are the most recent models with the GH. I donít see why they could not make a MODX successor under 40 lbs.
I don't know the relative weights of the speakers/amps of the P255 vs. all the additional componentry of the MODX, but if nothing else, just the MODX8 chassis itself is about 25% bigger. And as I mentioned, the chassis may have to be designed differently to support the weight of a heavier action.

Regardless, yeah, plenty would prefer the weight savings. There's a big difference between a 30 lb board and a 40 lb board. The weight of the cases becomes a factor as well, because the super light carry bags become less of an option as the boards get heavier. So a 40 lb board easily becomes a 50+ lb box to move into and out of the car or carry up and down the stairs. It makes a difference.
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 10/27/18 05:26 PM

Actually, as Steve Escoffery puts it, GHS may be preferable to GH, not because of weight gain, but because of the lighter action.
Posted By: echo66

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 10/27/18 06:15 PM

I have both the MODX8 and a Montage 8. I don't find the heaviness of the actions that much dissimilar. The main difference is the fulcrum on the Montage keys is further back - the backs of the keys go down further. This makes a difference in leverage affecting all the keys moreso the blacks. Fatiguing in comparison.

Having said that I am getting used to the MODX and don't love it, but don't hate it either. On a plus, my hands are getting stronger. It's a good sounding light instrument.
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 10/27/18 10:48 PM

Congrats on having both the MODX8 and Montage 8.
Any more thoughts on the difference between both?
Posted By: LarsHarner

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 10/28/18 12:48 PM

I was up in NYC for Billy Joel and Sam Ash had the Modx6 and Modx8 on display (however it would have made sense for them to be connected to monitors/amp but I guess that would have been practical), so I tried it with crappy headphones.

The action felt (on the 6) slightly more solid than the Krome 61 I own. The touch screen is neat to me, but the actual touch area per sound is realatively small for such a large screen.

I played some of the pianos/organs/rhodes/ drums etc..My first impression was when i get a 20% coupon- I might go for it.

In terms of GHS; I have it on my P125 but that board is to take out to songwriting groups, etc... but I would tend to agree and say it shouldnt be in an expensive board.

It does have that "spaceship" feel with some of the dials, lights etc... so if that bothers you I might be inclined to look elsewhere.

The actual width of the board is a little bulky as well
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 10/28/18 01:18 PM

Originally Posted By: LarsHarner
The action felt (on the 6) slightly more solid than the Krome 61 I own.

I like that it feels more consistent from front to back, though it's still not a great action for piano (even as non-hammer actions go).

Originally Posted By: LarsHarner
The actual width of the board is a little bulky as well

Not as wide as the Krome, A little deeper, though. The depth bothered me on the deeper 88, especially since that would typically be on the lower tier of a pair.
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 10/28/18 02:49 PM

The depth of the MODX8 was one of the reasons to get it (also as it was only $200 more than the MODX7.
Both depth, flatness and free space of the MODX8 allow for a 13Ē notebook on top.
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 10/28/18 03:06 PM

Originally Posted By: Bobby Simons
Iíve gone five times, to two different stores, to play the MODX. It sounds unbelievable, Iím in love with the whole approach. Iím sold.

Iím getting the Montage.

Lol. Awesome. I am loving my MODX7, love the 16 lbs and imo good synth action. Had the first gig(s) yesterday, i had back to backíer in two counties. different set lists due to different play times, the live set feature made it easy to adjust the set list for gig 2 while on stage for sound check. The big touchscreen visual interface is awesome. Still need to get used to the PB wheel, not working it as smooth due to the new location.

Itís nice to have that extra octave back in such a compact lightweight package. Love this thing, now i just need to learn how to use the new advanced features.

BTW, those that were sad the Montage (modx) didnít have a true sequencer - my Motif XF7 willl be going up on the auction block soon ... with roadster plywood flight case, FL1024 1GB flash card. Itís ~75 lbs in the case so iím not paying that shipping charge.
Posted By: Mr. Jazz Man

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 10/28/18 04:18 PM

i have cp1, cp4 and montage all different actions, I like the cp1 for my kind of playing which is very close to my Steinway B 2015 believe it or not, 2nd the montage 8 then last the cp4, the cp4 keybed is such a drag to play
Posted By: Mr. Jazz Man

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 10/28/18 04:22 PM

how do you know the montage 8 has the fulcrum further back, have you opened them both up to know this or do you have photos from the internet that would show this? I would like to see
Posted By: zephonic

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 10/28/18 04:32 PM

Originally Posted By: Mr. Jazz Man
i have cp1, cp4 and montage all different actions, I like the cp1 for my kind of playing which is very close to my Steinway B 2015 believe it or not, 2nd the montage 8 then last the cp4, the cp4 keybed is such a drag to play


Welcome to the forum. For years I thought I was the only one who doesnít like the CP4.
Posted By: gg22

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 10/28/18 04:44 PM

Originally Posted By: zephonic
Originally Posted By: Mr. Jazz Man
i have cp1, cp4 and montage all different actions, I like the cp1 for my kind of playing which is very close to my Steinway B 2015 believe it or not, 2nd the montage 8 then last the cp4, the cp4 keybed is such a drag to play


Welcome to the forum. For years I thought I was the only one who doesnít like the CP4.


Add me to the list too, I much prefer Korg RH3 action to the CP4.
Posted By: nursers

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 10/28/18 06:19 PM

Played my first gig with my MODX7 on sat night, cannot fault it unlike my in-ears etc. Very impressed.
Posted By: echo66

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 10/28/18 06:51 PM

Originally Posted By: Mr. Jazz Man
how do you know the montage 8 has the fulcrum further back, have you opened them both up to know this or do you have photos from the internet that would show this? I would like to see


I don't have pics but with the keyboards side by side - the depression of the backs of the keys of MODX8 hardly move away from the felt. The Montage there is a much larger space there. The difference is very obviously a closer pivot point. RH3 on my Kronos goes down much further as well as the RH2 on my Triton Studio.

The differences between the Montage 8 and the MODX8 for me. Montage sounds better, feels better, more expressive, aux outs and has better controls - especially the the 8 sliders. And no wall-wart! A luxury instrument imo. The bad - heavy!

The MODX is very nice alternative used it on a gig last night - tho at times I have to be careful if I want to get really ambitious with that action.

IMO the Montage is worth the $$ for the studio or if you want to carry it.
Posted By: echo66

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 10/28/18 06:53 PM

As another comment, I was doing organ swipes last night and at one point almost slide it right off the stand it's so light.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 10/28/18 07:30 PM

Originally Posted By: gg22
Originally Posted By: zephonic
Originally Posted By: Mr. Jazz Man
the cp4 keybed is such a drag to play

For years I thought I was the only one who doesnít like the CP4.

Add me to the list too, I much prefer Korg RH3 action to the CP4.

I only played the CP4 once, very briefly. It wasn't really for me either, and not nearly as good as the CP1/CP5 that preceded it.
Posted By: humannoyed

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 10/28/18 07:56 PM

First time I played my CP4 I was underwhelmed, but within a week I was in love with the action, and the internal sounds response to it. Best DP I have played to date! Especially after I compared it to my old P90 that I still have set up in another location
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 10/28/18 08:20 PM

Anyone compare the MODX7 action to Roland FA07?
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 10/28/18 08:29 PM

Originally Posted By: Fleer
Anyone compare the MODX7 action to Roland FA07?

MODX7 feels more consistent from front to rear.
Posted By: Dave Ferris

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 10/28/18 08:38 PM

Originally Posted By: Mr. Jazz Man
I like the cp1 for my kind of playing which is very close to my Steinway B 2015 believe it or not, 2nd the montage 8 then last the cp4, the cp4 keybed is such a drag to play


No offense but I don't believe it. I own a CP5 (same action as the CP1) and to say it even remotely approaches resembling my 2005 NY Steinway D would be a stretch, to say the least... wink

I find any electronic keyboard a "drag" to play but the CP4 is the least offensive I've played.

Does Mr. Jazz Man Pro Extraordinaire have a name ? Or possibly some audio clips ? smile
Posted By: bennyray

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 10/28/18 10:04 PM

I can't speak on the CP4 action personally but I know Chuck Leavell has used the CP4 for a long time and if he plays one I would say the action would have to be pretty good. Just saying!
Posted By: Mighty Motif Max

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 10/29/18 12:12 AM

Originally Posted By: gg22
Originally Posted By: zephonic
Originally Posted By: Mr. Jazz Man
i have cp1, cp4 and montage all different actions, I like the cp1 for my kind of playing which is very close to my Steinway B 2015 believe it or not, 2nd the montage 8 then last the cp4, the cp4 keybed is such a drag to play


Welcome to the forum. For years I thought I was the only one who doesnít like the CP4.


Add me to the list too, I much prefer Korg RH3 action to the CP4.


Add me to the list too. The CP4 is better than the FP30 and (IMO) RD-2000, but not my favorite to be sure. CP40 isn't too great either. Slippery. Funny thing is that I don't mind the GHS much at all. One of the graded actions that I really like is the one on the Kawai ES8. I could play that for hours. No way to justify a stage piano purchase though.
Posted By: zephonic

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 10/29/18 02:53 AM

Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
I own a CP5 (same action as the CP1) and to say it even remotely approaches resembling my 2005 NY Steinway D would be a stretch, to say the least... wink


Sure, but FWIW, to me the CP5 did not feel the same as the CP1. It's been a long time since I played either one, but the CP1 was really good, whereas the CP5 never did anything for me.
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 10/29/18 03:08 AM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: Fleer
Anyone compare the MODX7 action to Roland FA07?

MODX7 feels more consistent from front to rear.

Nice to hear, as the FA07 is already quite nice.
Posted By: Dave Ferris

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 10/29/18 04:21 AM

Originally Posted By: zephonic
Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
I own a CP5 (same action as the CP1) and to say it even remotely approaches resembling my 2005 NY Steinway D would be a stretch, to say the least... wink


Sure, but FWIW, to me the CP5 did not feel the same as the CP1. It's been a long time since I played either one, but the CP1 was really good, whereas the CP5 never did anything for me.


Played them side by side at Yamaha HQ years ago- both with phones and the TT08As.

CP1 CF Grand had a slightly thicker, more round and fatter sound. Better sustain on the CP1 too. But they played identical action wise.
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 10/29/18 03:10 PM

Today played the MODX8 with the Reface CP. Exquisite couple. Those reface keys are perfect for fast CP action and Supertramp style EP chops.
But that MODX8 does the trick for a real piano feel as well as ambient style strings and the like. Playing tracks from Atomos by A Winged Victory For The Sullen, the MODX8ís light hammer action was ideal. Remarkable how much the feel of a keyboard inspires the way we play and compose. The MODX8 (or any other hammer action) wouldnít allow me to hit those fast Supertramp chops, though, I guess the Reface covers those best, apart from a CP4/40.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 10/29/18 03:35 PM

Originally Posted By: Fleer
Interesting indeed, that you prefer the FA06 action to the MODX7.

...did I miss something? I don't think I've seen anyone say that.
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 10/29/18 06:33 PM

A case of mistaken identity ... edited.
Posted By: jeffinpghpa

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 11/02/18 12:14 PM

Auditioning one this weekend.
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 11/02/18 09:17 PM

Originally Posted By: jeffinpghpa
Auditioning one this weekend.

Keep us posted.
Posted By: ShadowMan

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 11/04/18 02:24 PM

I played and liked the MODX8 - but am really looking for a 7 to replace my MOXF6. However no stores around me have one to test.

Any NY/NJ forum members seen one in the area?
Posted By: mate stubb

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 11/04/18 03:18 PM

I was accidentally in a GC this week that actually had some boards for a change. I played the MODX for a few seconds, and was reminded how much I have moved away from big rompler type boards.

Spent most of my time fooling with a Moog Grandmother.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 11/04/18 05:20 PM

Originally Posted By: ShadowMan
I played and liked the MODX8 - but am really looking for a 7 to replace my MOXF6. However no stores around me have one to test.

The MODX7 will have the same sounds and same operation as the MODX8. Depending on who you ask, the action on the MODX7 is either pretty much the same as the MOXF6 or a bit better. So if you liked the MODX8 sounds/operation and the MOXF6 feel, it's a pretty safe bet you'll be very happy with the MODX7. And FWIW, I was in the same boat... owned MOXF6, played MODX8 in a store... ordered MODX7, and am very happy with it.
Posted By: ShadowMan

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 11/04/18 11:09 PM

Thank you, AnotherScott!!
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 11/04/18 11:23 PM

Scott, looking back, could you tell us what eventually made you decide to keep the MODX7 over the MODX8 ? Much obliged.
Posted By: Sven Golly

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 11/05/18 03:44 AM

Originally Posted By: matted stump
I was accidentally in a GC this week that actually had some boards for a change. I played the MODX for a few seconds, and was reminded how much I have moved away from big rompler type boards.

Spent most of my time fooling with a Moog Grandmother.


How was the grand piano on the Grandmother? snax wink
Posted By: Martin Demsky

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 11/05/18 05:32 AM

I am big fan of FM synthesis because i spent more than 20 years using it in my production (DX7, DX200, FM7, FS1R, K2000...) and this instrument looks interesting, but no aftertouch is deal-breaker also because of that i want one light keyboard for quick solos, so i am interested in MODX6. But i must go to music store in my city and hear it for myself, because i never heard 8-op FM synthesis capabilities. Joke mode off.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 11/05/18 08:31 AM

Originally Posted By: Fleer
Scott, looking back, could you tell us what eventually made you decide to keep the MODX7 over the MODX8 ? Much obliged.

GHS sems to feel better for me on some boards than others. I don't know for sure whether this depends on the model, or if it could even be the individual unit (something I've experienced on some other boards), but I wasn't happy enough with its feel on the MODX8 I played to be persuaded that it was worth going that way, considering the weight trade-off, the fact that I have other hammer actions I prefer the feel of, and that the MODX8 control surface is particularly deep which would put a second board above particularly far away (I like them as close as possible).
Posted By: Synthoid

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 11/05/18 11:27 AM

Originally Posted By: matted stump
I was accidentally in a GC this week


Sleep walking? laugh
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 11/05/18 11:41 AM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: ShadowMan
I played and liked the MODX8 - but am really looking for a 7 to replace my MOXF6. However no stores around me have one to test.

The MODX7 will have the same sounds and same operation as the MODX8. Depending on who you ask, the action on the MODX7 is either pretty much the same as the MOXF6 or a bit better. So if you liked the MODX8 sounds/operation and the MOXF6 feel, it's a pretty safe bet you'll be very happy with the MODX7. And FWIW, I was in the same boat... owned MOXF6, played MODX8 in a store... ordered MODX7, and am very happy with it.


I have a MOXF6 and now MODX7. Very happy #2. I endorse this - if you were ok with MOXF6 as a synth action board, MODX7 feels to me a bit of improvement. Hard to describe, just slightly more sturdy. But If you hate MOXF6, not sure any synth action board qualifies.
Posted By: mojkarma

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 11/05/18 11:48 AM

Originally Posted By: MotiDave
But If you hate MOXF6, not sure any synth action board qualifies.


Well, me for example doesn't hate the keybed on the MoX (that's the version I owned) and I guess that the keybed is similar on the MoXF, but I highly dislike it and definitely don't enjoy playing it. However, I like the keybed on my Montage very much. Unless I missed the point, we definitely can't throw all synth action keybeds into the same can.
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 11/05/18 11:54 AM

Originally Posted By: mojkarma
Originally Posted By: MotiDave
But If you hate MOXF6, not sure any synth action board qualifies.


Well, me for example doesn't hate the keybed on the MoX (that's the version I owned) and I guess that the keybed is similar on the MoXF, but I highly dislike it and definitely don't enjoy playing it. However, I like the keybed on my Montage very much. Unless I missed the point, we definitely can't throw all synth action keybeds into the same can.

Not sure MOX = MOXF = MODX, never had a MOX.

i guess we could qualify synth action below flagship level? Montagee6/7 weigh 30+ lbs and cost $3000+, its a different market segment. I prefer MODX7 to Montage7 for these exact reasons

I have a Motif XF7, there is a difference in action there too but not one i care much about. But thats me, every players feels differently
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 11/05/18 11:59 AM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: Fleer
Scott, looking back, could you tell us what eventually made you decide to keep the MODX7 over the MODX8 ? Much obliged.

GHS sems to feel better for me on some boards than others. I don't know for sure whether this depends on the model, or if it could even be the individual unit (something I've experienced on some other boards), but I wasn't happy enough with its feel on the MODX8 I played to be persuaded that it was worth going that way, considering the weight trade-off, the fact that I have other hammer actions I prefer the feel of, and that the MODX8 control surface is particularly deep which would put a second board above particularly far away (I like them as close as possible).

Good point indeed, thanks Scott.
Posted By: Mighty Motif Max

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 11/11/18 11:45 PM

On a trip to the cities I got a chance to try out the MODX8 vs the Montage 8. I think the MODX is very nice from a sound standpoint. They had the Montage hooked up to studio monitors but the MODX hooked up to a Roland KC amp, so not the greatest of references, but I thought it sounded pretty good. A quick dive in the editing section did prove that it's not for me, but I think for many people this will be a great instrument. The screen reminded me of my Krome's screen rather than the Montage screen in feel.
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 11/11/18 11:55 PM

How did you like the keybed feel, Max?
Posted By: Mighty Motif Max

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 11/12/18 02:34 AM

I didn't mind it at all. Coming from the Motif/Montage BH action, and also being familiar with the MOXF8 GHS, it felt a little "spongier" than either. Almost slightly heavier but more "plasticky". But the MOXF8 I played had been used for a while as a demo in a store so it probably loosened up a bit. I have also briefly played on the Korg Krome 88 action. The MODX8 felt similar to me, but I think either would work fine depending on the sound engine programming. I'd be happy to play on a MODX8 all the time if I only needed one board. I like the feel, it's just more plasticky than the BH, as expected. So perhaps the best description would be a bit slippery, smooth, slightly spongy resistance, and slightly but barely stiff. I think it was pretty new.


Felt OK to me. Compared it also the RD-2000 and Grandstage. Grandstage felt better for all-purpose to me, then MODX8, then RD-2000 (I think the RD's keys are too light and loose and it throws me off).

So smooth and fairly nice enough but a little plasticky. I reality a bit more piano-like overall than the balanced hammer action.



Hope that helps. I didn't have more than maybe ten minutes with it before I wandered on to other things. But I'd be happy to play that action all day. I like it better than the GH3 on my Clavinova actually. That's too heavy for my liking and bottoms out a bit hard.
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 11/12/18 12:50 PM

Thanks a milliin, Max!
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 11/12/18 04:29 PM

Originally Posted By: Mighty Motif Max
On a trip to the cities I got a chance to try out the MODX8 vs the Montage 8. I think the MODX is very nice from a sound standpoint. They had the Montage hooked up to studio monitors but the MODX hooked up to a Roland KC amp, so not the greatest of references, but I thought it sounded pretty good. A quick dive in the editing section did prove that it's not for me, but I think for many people this will be a great instrument. The screen reminded me of my Krome's screen rather than the Montage screen in feel.


Did everyone catch the significance here? Report is that MODX sounded good through a KC amp.

Imagine the possibilities ...
Posted By: Mighty Motif Max

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 11/12/18 05:54 PM

Yes, that's right. Surprisingly good. Much better than, say, the RD-2000 through a similar KC amp with the settings the same. Strange. Rolled off the lows a bit and turned up the mids and highs a bit.

Here's a picture with the amp. It was very large. Far too much bass, so that's why I rolled it off a bit.

Posted By: zephonic

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 11/12/18 11:01 PM

Originally Posted By: Mighty Motif Max
The screen reminded me of my Krome's screen rather than the Montage screen in feel.


I have both and to me the MODX' display feels better than the Krome's.
Posted By: burningbusch

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 11/12/18 11:55 PM

Originally Posted By: zephonic
Originally Posted By: Mighty Motif Max
The screen reminded me of my Krome's screen rather than the Montage screen in feel.


I have both and to me the MODX' display feels better than the Krome's.


I believe it's the same screen on the Montage and MODX. I had a MODX for a short while and now have a Montage. I think the screen is fine, but I frequently get double-strikes most noticeably when using the virtual keyboard. Never had this issue with the Kronos.

Busch.
Posted By: bennyray

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 11/13/18 12:08 AM

Originally Posted By: burningbusch
Originally Posted By: zephonic
Originally Posted By: Mighty Motif Max
The screen reminded me of my Krome's screen rather than the Montage screen in feel.


I have both and to me the MODX' display feels better than the Krome's.


I believe it's the same screen on the Montage and MODX. I had a MODX for a short while and now have a Montage. I think the screen is fine, but I frequently get double-strikes most noticeably when using the virtual keyboard. Never had this issue with the Kronos.

Busch.


Why did you get rid of the MODX? I always respect your opinions but I tried the Montage and the MODX side by side and to my ears the Montage was much better hands down. I know you were sold on the MODX at first what changed your mind just curious?
Posted By: burningbusch

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 11/13/18 12:25 AM

Originally Posted By: bennyray


Why did you get rid of the MODX? I always respect your opinions but I tried the Montage and the MODX side by side and to my ears the Montage was much better hands down. I know you were sold on the MODX at first what changed your mind just curious?


I'm working on bringing some of my sample libraries to Yamaha. With the MODX, I can't create products for the Montage. With the Montage, I can do both. My initial plan was to buy the MODX and rent a Montage to keep costs down, but I decided to go the Montage route in the end.

I do like and frequently use the additional buttons on the right to select parts/elements. I could do this on the screen, but the buttons make the process quicker. I use these all the time. I also justified it by the idea that the FM polyphony on the Montage makes my TX816 redundant. It is infinitely easier to deal with. The more limited polyphony on the MODX prohibits it from being a complete TX816 replacement. Also, based purely on the specs I didn't think the Montage would fit on my main studio desk (an Argosy console) but after renting it, it turns out it does fit.

Busch.
Posted By: bennyray

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 11/13/18 01:03 AM

You are one helluva programmer and you always get much respect from me as always but going with the Montage makes much more sense.

Looking forward to hearing the samples that you bring to Yamaha!
Posted By: MIDI2XS

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 11/13/18 08:39 AM

Originally Posted By: burningbusch
[...] I think the screen is fine, but I frequently get double-strikes most noticeably when using the virtual keyboard. Never had this issue with the Kronos.

Busch.

That might be related to touch screen calibration - or not.

See:
https://www.yamahasynth.com/forum/montage-touch-screen-doubling-my-touch
https://www.yamahasynth.com/forum/touchscreen-debouncing-problem-still-in-os-2-0
Posted By: pjd

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 11/13/18 10:59 AM

I just finished making a few pipe organ waveforms and voices for MODX and wrote a few blog posts about the experience. Here are links:

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/modx-creating-a-new-waveform/
http://sandsoftwaresound.net/modx-get-started-with-sample-robot/
http://sandsoftwaresound.net/sample-robot-quick-feedback/
http://sandsoftwaresound.net/modx-going-to-the-library/
http://sandsoftwaresound.net/modx-sampling-genos-pipe-organ/

Hope you find this info helpful -- pj
Posted By: burningbusch

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 11/13/18 03:05 PM

Originally Posted By: bennyray
You are one helluva programmer and you always get much respect from me as always but going with the Montage makes much more sense.

Looking forward to hearing the samples that you bring to Yamaha!



Thanks Benny.

Busch.
Posted By: burningbusch

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 11/13/18 03:07 PM

Originally Posted By: MIDI2XS
Originally Posted By: burningbusch
[...] I think the screen is fine, but I frequently get double-strikes most noticeably when using the virtual keyboard. Never had this issue with the Kronos.

Busch.

That might be related to touch screen calibration - or not.

See:
https://www.yamahasynth.com/forum/montage-touch-screen-doubling-my-touch
https://www.yamahasynth.com/forum/touchscreen-debouncing-problem-still-in-os-2-0


Thanks. I tried the suggestions and it seemed to help some, but did not completely alleviate the problem for me.

Busch.
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX effects - 11/14/18 12:59 AM

Originally Posted By: pjd

Cheers!
Great website, by the way.
Posted By: burningbusch

Re: Yamaha MODX - 11/20/18 03:17 PM

Originally Posted By: burningbusch
An update on the looping issue. I got a response back from Melas stating the Motif/Montage have an issue that if a WAV contains any audio after the loop, this can create audible artifacts. So I went through, re-edited everything, made sure there is nothing after the loop both in Wavelab and in the Melas Waveform Editor and I'm still getting artifacts that don't show up when the WAVs are played back on the computer or when saved as an X7U in SampleRobot. So something else is amiss. I've spent far too much time on this issue. SampleRobot can function as a tool to bring in WAVs, create waveforms (Yamaha-speak for multi-samples) and then export those as an X7U. But it's not as versatile for doing that as is the Melas Editor. But at least the results are good.

Here's an example of the issue:

Looping Issue: 1st SampleRobot - 2nd Melas Editor

Busch.


FYI, this issue has been fixed in the latest release of the Montage Waveform Editor.

http://www.jmelas.gr/montage/wave.php

Busch.
Posted By: mcpepe

Re: Yamaha MODX - 11/20/18 08:24 PM

Sorry for the old reference but, Is the keyboard of the MODX8 similar to a Yamaha P90?
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 11/20/18 09:10 PM

I've done a couple shows now and i have to say - i'm loving my MODX7. I just did a big show with a fly-in band last weekend in Texas - alot of positive feedback from the band and sound crew on how great it sounds. the audience loved the band, though I don't think they discern that level of detail.

but the band members and sound crew heard a difference.
Posted By: Mighty Motif Max

Re: Yamaha MODX - 11/20/18 11:12 PM

Originally Posted By: mcpepe
Sorry for the old reference but, Is the keyboard of the MODX8 similar to a Yamaha P90?


I've never played a P90. But looking at the specs it had the GHE action, which is also on my CLP-130 Clavinova. I'd say that the MODX8 was not bad but that it is not all that similar to the P90. It's more like the P115 action (GHS in both). It's lighter and more plasticky in my opinion. The GHE is also lighter than most pianos, but is more "solid" feeling when you press down. Just my two cents.
Posted By: KeyMoe

Re: Yamaha MODX - 11/21/18 02:52 PM

Sorry if this was asked before, but is the action on the MODX-6 the same as the MODX-7?
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 11/21/18 03:32 PM

Originally Posted By: KeyMoe
Sorry if this was asked before, but is the action on the MODX-6 the same as the MODX-7?
According to Yamaha it is. Users will get various personal impressions - I'm not sure I'd rely on a perceived difference as being accurate but I only have a 7, can't compare to 6.
Posted By: mcpepe

Re: Yamaha MODX - 11/21/18 03:35 PM

Originally Posted By: Mighty Motif Max
Originally Posted By: mcpepe
Sorry for the old reference but, Is the keyboard of the MODX8 similar to a Yamaha P90?


I've never played a P90. But looking at the specs it had the GHE action, which is also on my CLP-130 Clavinova. I'd say that the MODX8 was not bad but that it is not all that similar to the P90. It's more like the P115 action (GHS in both). It's lighter and more plasticky in my opinion. The GHE is also lighter than most pianos, but is more "solid" feeling when you press down. Just my two cents.


Ok. Thanks for the info and opinion
Posted By: KeyMoe

Re: Yamaha MODX - 11/21/18 08:12 PM

Originally Posted By: MotiDave
Originally Posted By: KeyMoe
Sorry if this was asked before, but is the action on the MODX-6 the same as the MODX-7?
According to Yamaha it is. Users will get various personal impressions - I'm not sure I'd rely on a perceived difference as being accurate but I only have a 7, can't compare to 6.


Ok thanks so much for the quick response! Just pulled the trigger on the MODX7. Should be here next week.
Posted By: nursers

Re: Yamaha MODX - 11/21/18 09:43 PM

A shameful admission from me: one (of a few reasons) I went with the MODX7 was the last three digits in its name wink
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 11/22/18 12:01 AM

Originally Posted By: KeyMoe
Originally Posted By: MotiDave
Originally Posted By: KeyMoe
Sorry if this was asked before, but is the action on the MODX-6 the same as the MODX-7?
According to Yamaha it is. Users will get various personal impressions - I'm not sure I'd rely on a perceived difference as being accurate but I only have a 7, can't compare to 6.


Ok thanks so much for the quick response! Just pulled the trigger on the MODX7. Should be here next week.
I love my MODX7, not that that guarantees you a thing of course. Iím not as discerning (or picky) on key feel as many here at KC. Itís a value-line all purpose synth - its tremendous value in its price range imo.
Posted By: KeyMoe

Re: Yamaha MODX - 11/22/18 12:58 AM

Originally Posted By: MotiDave
Originally Posted By: KeyMoe
[quote=MotiDave][quote=KeyMoe]Sorry if this was asked before, but is the action on the MODX-6 the same as the MODX-7?
According to Yamaha it is. Users will get various personal impressions - I'm not sure I'd rely on a perceived difference as being accurate but I only have a 7, can't compare to 6.


Thanks again. Will let you know next week.
Posted By: lsj

Re: Yamaha MODX - 11/22/18 12:50 PM

agree, great keyboard
Posted By: lsj

Re: Yamaha MODX - 12/02/18 10:17 AM

just some information. yamaha's guru Bad Mister will be posting information on different procedures for the MODX. the posts appear on Yamahsynthforum.com for the next few weeks. every few days a new subject will be presented. another site I ran across was yamahamusicians.com check them out...Ö.Larry
Posted By: lsj

Re: Yamaha MODX - 12/02/18 03:04 PM

made a mistake the website is yamahasynth.com
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX - 12/04/18 12:15 PM

These guys did a part 2 of their comparison:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1_0jbBezEtE
Posted By: zephonic

Re: Yamaha MODX - 12/05/18 07:49 PM

So this is sort of weird...

As I have mentioned before, the MODX8 (and MX88) output level is considerably lower than that of my other boards.

Bumping the MODX' output up by +6dB helps when using it live, but in the studio it distorts the inputs of my interface.

Frankly, I don't really need the extra dB's in the studio, so I can just toggle the +6dB on/off as needed, but I want to understand why this is?

The Fantom, Nord, and Krome don't have this discrepancy, their levels seem consistent relative to eachother, both live and in the studio.
Posted By: Markyboard

Re: Yamaha MODX - 12/07/18 10:34 AM

Originally Posted By: zephonic
So this is sort of weird...

As I have mentioned before, the MODX8 (and MX88) output level is considerably lower than that of my other boards.

Bumping the MODX' output up by +6dB helps when using it live, but in the studio it distorts the inputs of my interface.

Frankly, I don't really need the extra dB's in the studio, so I can just toggle the +6dB on/off as needed, but I want to understand why this is?

The Fantom, Nord, and Krome don't have this discrepancy, their levels seem consistent relative to eachother, both live and in the studio.


I was waiting for someone else to answer but apparently not. All these devices are designed differently with respect to output levels, impedance etc. How they perform with other equipment is somewhat inconsistent between manufacturers and even within product lines of a single manufacturer. In a nutshell it comes down to providing the right amount of signal (seems obvious). There's really no set rules on how to handle this although others will tell you differently. If you're distorting your audio interface than yeah, switch the gain back to the lower setting. If you want some really good technical info you can read about it here.
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 12/07/18 03:19 PM

Re Distortion - here is my experience. I also bumped up to +6 as the original output is quite low.

I transferred all of my performances from XF and MOXF. What I found was many of them are distorting with individual parts bumping into redline signal level. now, confession - i've previously drove signal levels high within each part volume.

I systematically went thru every PErformance and dropped every volume by 5. That fixed 95%, there were a few that still sound to be clipping slightly. i tweaked further.

I found APs were a large percent of culprits. not sure why ...

edit note: I would think the individual part "redlining" is way upstream of the +6 db overall output signal boost, which is more akin to overall volume control. I can't theorize a connection between the two.
Posted By: Markyboard

Re: Yamaha MODX - 12/07/18 03:53 PM

Originally Posted By: MotiDave


edit note: I would think the individual part "redlining" is way upstream of the +6 db overall output signal boost, which is more akin to overall volume control. I can't theorize a connection between the two.


That's all done in the digital domain creating the composite digital representation of the waveform. This is then sent to a Digitalt to Analog Converter. I suspect there is an output amplifier stage following the DAC affecting all performances by the master volume level and this additional output gain.
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 12/07/18 03:59 PM

Originally Posted By: Markyboard
Originally Posted By: MotiDave


edit note: I would think the individual part "redlining" is way upstream of the +6 db overall output signal boost, which is more akin to overall volume control. I can't theorize a connection between the two.


That's all done in the digital domain creating the composite digital representation of the waveform. This is then sent to a Digitalt to Analog Converter. I suspect there is an output amplifier stage following the DAC affecting all performances by the master volume level and this additional output gain.


i'll pretend i understood all of that and say yes, thats what I said smile
Posted By: zephonic

Re: Yamaha MODX - 12/14/18 06:13 AM

Originally Posted By: Markyboard
If you want some really good technical info you can read about it here.


Mark, thanks for that link, useful.


Originally Posted By: MotiDave
Re Distortion - here is my experience. I also bumped up to +6 as the original output is quite low.

I transferred all of my performances from XF and MOXF. What I found was many of them are distorting with individual parts bumping into redline signal level. now, confession - i've previously drove signal levels high within each part volume.

I systematically went thru every PErformance and dropped every volume by 5. That fixed 95%, there were a few that still sound to be clipping slightly. i tweaked further.

I found APs were a large percent of culprits. not sure why ...

edit note: I would think the individual part "redlining" is way upstream of the +6 db overall output signal boost, which is more akin to overall volume control. I can't theorize a connection between the two.



Dave, thank you. Your post got me thinking the distortion could be internal rather than external. Like you said, dialing it down just a bit fixed most of it. I also found the AP's were the most affected by distortion.


I never really considered that the distortion could be internal, but I guess if they are on fixed-point you eventually run out of bits to fill, right? I wonder if moving to 32-bit floating point would ameliorate or even fix this?

Tomorrow on the gig I'm gonna see if the reduced internal levels and the +6dB output have finally sorted my volume issues.


Anyway, after 2+ months I'm beginning to hit my stride with the MODX. This thing does sound awesome. Really mature, somehow, makes the Krome sound like a toy. The presets don't need much tweaking, it is super-easy to operate for the most part, and you can't beat the schlep-factor.

But the volume knob situation is perplexing. I still don't know how they got that so wrong. I mean, ALL other Motif/Montage/MOXF/MM/MX products got it right, why on Earth did they change it? It is really cumbersome when you have another keyboard on top.

However, it has got me thinking maybe I need to start gigging with just one board again.
Posted By: motomike1961

Re: Yamaha MODX - 12/14/18 09:01 AM

What does Yamaha say about this output level/distortion issue?

Quite frankly if I purchased a new board and had to fiddling with the volume/output levels of each performance in Yamaha language, I would send the board back.

I never had to do anything like this on my Grandstage, MP7se or CP4.

Am I off base here?

Mike
Posted By: ElmerJFudd

Re: Yamaha MODX - 12/14/18 09:09 AM

Originally Posted By: motomike1961
What does Yamaha say about this output level/distortion issue?

Quite frankly if I purchased a new board and had to fiddling with the volume/output levels of each performance in Yamaha language, I would send the board back.

I never had to do anything like this on my Grandstage, MP7se or CP4.

Am I off base here?

Mike


Arenít we talking about user transferred patches from previous generation Motifs that need to be tweaked? Are the patches that Yamaha includes or have prepped for inclusion exhibiting the issue?
Posted By: lsj

Re: Yamaha MODX - 12/14/18 09:42 AM

it is just the transferred patches. when I first sat down at my MODX, the first thing I did was adjust the velocity of the keyboard to my liking, not send it back. so much complaining about keyboard touch, needs more ram, too heavy, too flimsy(some people want a keyboard built like a tank made with iron, but only weighing 10 pounds). me, the most important things are how it sounds and price. I am a Hammond player, which needs a totally different style of touch, I adapt my playing style to whatever keybed I am playing...Ö.Larry
Posted By: zephonic

Re: Yamaha MODX - 12/14/18 03:52 PM

Let me clarify about the distortion, so it doesn't look like I'm slandering the MODX for no reason.

When I first got the board, the output levels were generally low, and on the first gig it totally got lost in the mix. The +6dB helped but not enough, and the +12dB was too much.

I realized a lot of performances had their levels set at much lower than max (i.e. 62 out of 127 etc.) so I figured if I crank their levels to max and keep the output bump at +6dB I should be good.

This worked in the sense that it solved my loudness problem, but in the studio I now noticed the distortion on some patches, in particular the AP's and some more powerful synth sounds.
I thought the output was too hot, but taking the +6dB off didn't solve the problem. I bought new cables and contemplated buying a new audio interface, until I read MotiDave's post. Last night I dialed back the performance volume of the distorting patches, cranked it back up to +6dB and it looks like we're good.

So no, out of the box there is no distortion on the MODX.
Posted By: burningbusch

Re: Yamaha MODX - 12/14/18 04:35 PM

A few observations about the Montage/MODX after I've been programming for the last couple of months.

Let me compare it with the Kronos, which I know well. Talking now about working within the Program structure. With the Kronos, everything is pretty much at max. The amp section, by default, is maxed. So too are the output(s) of the filter(s). If you use an EQ, there is an option to lower the output gain (in the case where you raise a band into distortion) but no way to raise it above 0db. In fact, the Kronos has so few options for raising gain that often your only recourse is to employ the compressor trick where you insert a compressor, set the ratio to 1:1 and then raise the output gain. It's relatively hard to drive the Kronos into distortion though it can be done with the amp sims, for example.

In contrast, the Montage/MODX offers many opportunities to increase gain within the Performance.

Within the Element (I'll leave out the obvious things like amp gain):
- The output of the filter is 230 by default but can be increased to 255.
- The output of the element (Element EQ) can be boosted by 6/12/18db.

In the Common section for the Part:
- The Output level (post-EQ) can be raised by as much as 12db.
- Many FXs allow the boosting of gain. For example, the VCM EQ 501 allows +/-12db.

You, of course, have the overall volume of the Performance and this could very well need to be lowered from 127 if the internal output stages of the Elements/Parts are boosted too much. In short, Yamaha provides many places where gain can be increased and it becomes much more of a balancing act than with keyboards like the Kronos. I personally welcome it, though it's a bit more work.

Regarding the +6/12db boost at the Main Outputs, you can balance that with the setting at Utility-->Settings-->Sound-->Volume. So if you're getting distortion at +6db, try lowing that volume setting a bit. It can get you somewhere in between 0 and +6db. I agree that the APs are quite hot and kind of throw off the balance of the other instruments. Easier to pull them down a bit than to try to bring everything else up.

Busch.

Posted By: nursers

Re: Yamaha MODX - 12/15/18 05:43 AM

Originally Posted By: burningbusch
A few observations about the Montage/MODX after I've been programming for the last couple of months.

Let me compare it with the Kronos, which I know well. Talking now about working within the Program structure. With the Kronos, everything is pretty much at max. The amp section, by default, is maxed. So too are the output(s) of the filter(s). If you use an EQ, there is an option to lower the output gain (in the case where you raise a band into distortion) but no way to raise it above 0db. In fact, the Kronos has so few options for raising gain that often your only recourse is to employ the compressor trick where you insert a compressor, set the ratio to 1:1 and then raise the output gain. It's relatively hard to drive the Kronos into distortion though it can be done with the amp sims, for example.

In contrast, the Montage/MODX offers many opportunities to increase gain within the Performance.

Within the Element (I'll leave out the obvious things like amp gain):
- The output of the filter is 230 by default but can be increased to 255.
- The output of the element (Element EQ) can be boosted by 6/12/18db.

In the Common section for the Part:
- The Output level (post-EQ) can be raised by as much as 12db.
- Many FXs allow the boosting of gain. For example, the VCM EQ 501 allows +/-12db.

You, of course, have the overall volume of the Performance and this could very well need to be lowered from 127 if the internal output stages of the Elements/Parts are boosted too much. In short, Yamaha provides many places where gain can be increased and it becomes much more of a balancing act than with keyboards like the Kronos. I personally welcome it, though it's a bit more work.

Regarding the +6/12db boost at the Main Outputs, you can balance that with the setting at Utility-->Settings-->Sound-->Volume. So if you're getting distortion at +6db, try lowing that volume setting a bit. It can get you somewhere in between 0 and +6db. I agree that the APs are quite hot and kind of throw off the balance of the other instruments. Easier to pull them down a bit than to try to bring everything else up.

Busch.



Superb - thank you thu
Posted By: mcpepe

Re: Yamaha MODX - 12/15/18 09:30 AM

I have one question about the Yamaha MODX8 before buying.

I want to use it in my studio desk, a Zaor Miza Z:
https://zaorstudiofurniture.com/index.php?page=mizaz

The available free height for the keyboard is exactly 16.0cm looking at the official specifications. I have measured it and it really is 16.0cm.

The Yamaha MODX8 is also 16.0cm height, according to the Yamaha web.

Do you think I will have problems to insert the MODX8 in my desk? It's really 16,0 height? with or without the little rubber things bellow the keyboard?

Thanks for the help!
Posted By: Markyboard

Re: Yamaha MODX - 12/15/18 10:05 AM

If the MODX8 is exactly 16cm I would say no. The spec shows Height 160mm (6-1/16"). Those inches convert to 15.4cm so you may be OK - depends which one is correct. Best to measure it yourself and don't forget to include the knobs/wheels. Also there may be rubber/plastic feet you can remove.

Edit - looks like it does have short feet on it.
Posted By: niacin

Re: Yamaha MODX - 12/15/18 10:53 PM

Recently replaced my MX88 with a MODX8, first gig last night, fill in with a band playing 80s to current pop. For some years I've been using an Integra for all but B3 sounds.

Given the concerns about the output I have to say I had no issues. into a Yamaha DBR-10 and patched out the back into the desk. DBR-10 set at 12:00, MODX8 at 3:00. Yeh it's not as hot as my Integra, but there's plenty there. I did look at the internal piano patch volumes and there at around 64, compared to some strings and synths at 127, so yeh if you're importing patches you may have gain issues. The final gain stage and effects make a big difference. Given the gain stage options mentioned by Busch I will also mention that I needed the manual on more than one occasion, in contrast to the Integra whose manual I've yet to crack. The interface is much improved over the Motif series.

Saved 16 performances, mostly single sounds or splits to a setlist, made my life easy on stage cause the band leader just calls tunes at will from a shortlist of around 50 (with some random tunes thrown in to make sure I'm paying attention, lol). Although I've previously found Roland/Korg sounds to be more evenly balanced when it comes to levels than Yamaha which have tended to be all over the shop, despite concerns using cans that led me to have everything on a volume pedal in case, live they were actually pretty good.

Piano, EP, strings, synths, even brass for Uptown Funk sounded good. Plenty of grins from other band members playing some of the signature keys parts. Hammond stuff is useable due to an improved Leslie sim which is less squirrelly than in the past, and the keyboard lends itself reasonably well to some Hammond techniques. The gig was recorded from the desk so it'll be interesting to hear it all back, but I was pretty pleased. I love the Integra for some sounds (some of the bass patches are gold for those of us playing LH bass), but the MODX8 pianos and EPs, which I spent maybe 2/3 of the night on, made me much happier.

Volume knob is not well placed for on the fly adjustments (which I needed for the odd synth solo).

Overall very happy, definitely a keeper, probably for a long time given I'm getting to old to be carrying around 20kg+ boards.
Posted By: zephonic

Re: Yamaha MODX - 12/17/18 10:51 PM

I hate myself.

Last Friday I rushed to the gig and forgot to unplug the USB flash drive from the MODX8 before carrying it around in the bag. Sure enough, I damaged the USB port.

Yamaha service center locator lists Advanced Musical Electronics as the nearest repair center, but my previous experience with them wasn't great.

I guess I'll never forget to check for flash drives ever again.
Posted By: EscapeRocks

Re: Yamaha MODX - 12/18/18 12:03 AM

Low Profile Thumb Drives will become your friend

Posted By: cassdad

Re: Yamaha MODX - 12/18/18 01:09 AM

Zephonic: FWIW, I use Paul Morte Technical Services, (authorized Yamaha servicer), 946 N. Main Street, Orange, CA, (714) 532-9540, although I realize they are farther for you.
Posted By: Swithin

Re: Yamaha MODX - 12/18/18 03:42 AM

Ah, don't hate yourself, accidents can always happen... Perhaps keyboard manufacturers could do something about this though: either make sure the USB ports are sturdy enough or provide 3-4 USB ports (so if you damage one, you can still get full use out of the keyboard). Computers have several USB ports - why shouldn't keyboards?
Posted By: niacin

Re: Yamaha MODX - 12/18/18 04:37 AM

or they could have a covered slot like a few of the Roland boards back as far as the Juno Stage.

Update to my post above, having received the live recording from the gig: sounds are well balanced with very little tweaking of levels, all mono and they sound just fine, piano sounds great even mono, in a band context, Hammond even better than I thought at the time (again in the context of a 5-piece pop band). Great board.
Posted By: Charleston

Re: Yamaha MODX - 12/18/18 02:47 PM

A huge bright lanyard can help.
Posted By: zephonic

Re: Yamaha MODX - 12/18/18 05:38 PM

Originally Posted By: cassdad
Zephonic: FWIW, I use Paul Morte Technical Services, (authorized Yamaha servicer), 946 N. Main Street, Orange, CA, (714) 532-9540, although I realize they are farther for you.


Thanks for the recommendation, I'll check them out.

Originally Posted By: Swithin
Perhaps keyboard manufacturers could do something about this though: either make sure the USB ports are sturdy enough or provide 3-4 USB ports (so if you damage one, you can still get full use out of the keyboard). Computers have several USB ports - why shouldn't keyboards?


I have had the same thought, why can't keyboards double as USB hubs? Especially with the dearth of connectors on modern MacBooks, it would come in very handy.

Originally Posted By: niacin
or they could have a covered slot like a few of the Roland boards back as far as the Juno Stage.


Yes, my Jupiter 50 had that, too. Perfect solution.
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX - 12/19/18 12:46 AM

Sad to hear, zephonic, hope you get it solved.
Posted By: nursers

Re: Yamaha MODX - 12/28/18 02:07 AM

Just a shout out again to the Yamaha / MODX workflow. I'm doing a pick up gig for NYE and needed to set up 25 or so performances and then add them to the live set screen. I just love how easy it is from whoa to go. Really impressed thu

Am also travelling light for this gig - not using Mainstage but will be playing music off iTunes in the breaks. Love that I can just run laptop audio through the MODX as well.
Posted By: mcpepe

Re: Yamaha MODX - 12/28/18 07:23 AM

Is there a note holder option for the Modx8?

I know is a little detail, but I hate having to carry a standalone note holder to gigs.
Posted By: nursers

Re: Yamaha MODX - 12/28/18 07:40 AM

Originally Posted By: mcpepe
Is there a note holder option for the Modx8?

I know is a little detail, but I hate having to carry a standalone note holder to gigs.


Not by the look of it: https://usa.yamaha.com/products/music_production/synthesizers/modx/accessories.html
Posted By: mcpepe

Re: Yamaha MODX - 12/28/18 08:35 AM

Originally Posted By: nursers
Originally Posted By: mcpepe
Is there a note holder option for the Modx8?

I know is a little detail, but I hate having to carry a standalone note holder to gigs.


Not by the look of it: https://usa.yamaha.com/products/music_production/synthesizers/modx/accessories.html


Ok. Thanks. I will have to live with that!

Talking about accessories...

-How do you like the Yamaha YSC-MODX8 soft case?
-I see that there is not a sustain pedal included.
Posted By: nursers

Re: Yamaha MODX - 12/28/18 08:37 AM

I have the MODX7 so have the equivalent case, and it's not bad. There are better cases out there but it does the job and seems sturdy enough. And no, no sustain pedal included but they aren't commonly included with most boards.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 12/28/18 08:38 AM

Are you talking about a sheet music stand? The MODX8 may not have that, but it does have a good amount of blank panel space, where you could conveniently put something like an iPad, which could hold your notes, if you don't mind looking off to the side.
Posted By: mcpepe

Re: Yamaha MODX - 12/28/18 08:46 AM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Are you talking about a sheet music stand? The MODX8 may not have that, but it does have a good amount of blank panel space, where you could conveniently put something like an iPad, which could hold your notes, if you don't mind looking off to the side.


Yes. I am talking about a sheet music stand.
I didn't thought about the blank panel space. Hummmnnnn. idea I have a Microsoft Surface and I could use it
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 12/28/18 11:48 AM

Originally Posted By: nursers
I have the MODX7 so have the equivalent case, and it's not bad. There are better cases out there but it does the job and seems sturdy enough. And no, no sustain pedal included but they aren't commonly included with most boards.


I also have the 7. I picked up their softcase and imho I think its a tad thin on the protection / padding and lacks any bolsters around the side edge. What ďbetter casesĒ *soft case have you seen or recommend that the MODX7 fits in nicely? (This Q is open to any and all).

I also picked up SKBís molded ď76Ē ATA case for fly-ins where I need to check it with airline - its nice though added padding is needed to hold it snug. Itís flown once so far and seemed to enjoy the trip
Posted By: nursers

Re: Yamaha MODX - 12/28/18 09:58 PM

I imagine there's a Gator case out there that fits the bill but I took the lazy option and got the Yamaha case.
Posted By: Darcity

Re: Yamaha MODX - 12/30/18 08:28 PM

After all my research, watching a ton of videos vs the Montage 8, and this thread (yes I read EVERY reply!), I too have just purchased a MODX8! The weight, flexibility of sounds, controller functions, built in audio interface, feel and price was everything I needed to fulfill my gigging needs. IMHO, this is the ULTIMATE stage piano for the regular gigging musician who sets up their own gear.
Posted By: KeyMoe

Re: Yamaha MODX - 12/30/18 10:15 PM

Originally Posted By: Darcity
After all my research, watching a ton of videos vs the Montage 8, and this thread (yes I read EVERY reply!), I too have just purchased a MODX8! The weight, flexibility of sounds, controller functions, built in audio interface, feel and price was everything I needed to fulfill my gigging needs. IMHO, this is the ULTIMATE stage piano for the regular gigging musician who sets up their own gear.


Agreed. After a few gigs with my MODX it shines in the value department. My only concern is durability. Time will tell after a couple hundred gigs. Keeping my fingers crossed.
Posted By: Darcity

Re: Yamaha MODX - 12/30/18 10:32 PM

Originally Posted By: KeyMoe

Agreed. After a few gigs with my MODX it shines in the value department. My only concern is durability. Time will tell after a couple hundred gigs. Keeping my fingers crossed.


I think It will be just fine. If my featherweight Px-5S which is made of glass, can survive someone as clumsy as I am, anyone can handle that MODX! Lol
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX - 12/31/18 12:45 AM

Keep us in the loop. Saw too many forum posts about the clanking keybed noises after a few months of use. Returned my MODX8 but Iím still interested because of the sounds. Then again, some MODX6 and MODX7 apparently suffer from keybed gaps (according to this monthís Sound On Sound review and a number of forum posts).
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 12/31/18 12:48 AM

Originally Posted By: Fleer
Keep us in the loop. Saw too many forum posts about the clanking keybed noises after a few months of use. Returned my MODX8 but Iím still interested because of the sounds. Then again, some MODX6 and MODX7 apparently suffer from keybed gaps (according to this monthís Sound On Sound review and a number of forum posts).

No gaps here on an early 7. Itís only ~ 2 months old ...
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX - 12/31/18 01:18 AM

Comforting smile
Posted By: Darcity

Re: Yamaha MODX - 12/31/18 01:32 AM

Clanking notes
Originally Posted By: Fleer
Keep us in the loop. Saw too many forum posts about the clanking keybed noises after a few months of use. Returned my MODX8 but Iím still interested because of the sounds. Then again, some MODX6 and MODX7 apparently suffer from keybed gaps (according to this monthís Sound On Sound review and a number of forum posts).


They said that about my Casio PX-5S. As with anything newer, ďlighterĒ versions, there are gonna be trade offs. Iím not expecting a perfect keyboard, I want A functional keyboard. Yes the keys May clank, but does it get the job done?

A lot was taken off the keyboard to make it lighter. So You have to account for some imperfections: You want that quiet smooth, silky keybed? thatís gonna cost and add weight. You want that sturdy solid aluminum frame/covering? Thatís gonna cost and add weight. You want those extra controllers with all 8 knobs? Thatís gonna cost and add weight. You want a regular built it power supply minus the walwart? Thatís gonna cost and add weight. I think Yamaha did a fabulous job cutting the corners where they did.
In short for the value, I welcome The ďIMPERFECTIONSĒ!
Posted By: lsj

Re: Yamaha MODX - 12/31/18 10:10 AM

intelligent post Darcity. totally agree with you. refreshing to read...Ö..Larry
Posted By: Darcity

Re: Yamaha MODX - 12/31/18 01:45 PM

Thanks Larry!
Posted By: KeyMoe

Re: Yamaha MODX - 01/01/19 12:00 AM

No clanking here yet.....
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX - 01/01/19 03:55 AM

Originally Posted By: Darcity
Clanking notes
Originally Posted By: Fleer
Keep us in the loop. Saw too many forum posts about the clanking keybed noises after a few months of use. Returned my MODX8 but Iím still interested because of the sounds. Then again, some MODX6 and MODX7 apparently suffer from keybed gaps (according to this monthís Sound On Sound review and a number of forum posts).


They said that about my Casio PX-5S. As with anything newer, ďlighterĒ versions, there are gonna be trade offs. Iím not expecting a perfect keyboard, I want A functional keyboard. Yes the keys May clank, but does it get the job done?

A lot was taken off the keyboard to make it lighter. So You have to account for some imperfections: You want that quiet smooth, silky keybed? thatís gonna cost and add weight. You want that sturdy solid aluminum frame/covering? Thatís gonna cost and add weight. You want those extra controllers with all 8 knobs? Thatís gonna cost and add weight. You want a regular built it power supply minus the walwart? Thatís gonna cost and add weight. I think Yamaha did a fabulous job cutting the corners where they did.
In short for the value, I welcome The ďIMPERFECTIONSĒ!

I can live with all of those, except with a clanking keybed.
Posted By: nursers

Re: Yamaha MODX - 01/01/19 04:10 AM

The keybed is not the loudest I've played (my Nektar P6 controller is about the same level), but for me in a rock covers band it's zero issue given on-stage volume levels.
Posted By: Roland_Guy

Re: Yamaha MODX - 01/01/19 10:05 AM

considering jumping to MODX but I had issues with several yamaha keyboards in the past. One thing i noticed is that graded hammer action is not the same on all their keyboards. DGX, Mox, Moxf, Modx, p115 all use GH action, i have played them all, and they all differ considerably. one main GH keybed problem is dead keys popping up in winter seasons. just a little chill in the air, and those sensors beneath the keys start acting up.
Posted By: Darcity

Re: Yamaha MODX - 01/01/19 10:35 PM

What case are you using for your MODX8?
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX - 01/01/19 11:21 PM

Originally Posted By: nursers
The keybed is not the loudest I've played (my Nektar P6 controller is about the same level), but for me in a rock covers band it's zero issue given on-stage volume levels.

In fact I actually loved the MODX8 keybed but didnít want to wait until the clanking problem would surface (as described in several forum threads over at YamahaMusicians and GearSlutz). Returned the big fella when I still could. And maybe itís a quality control issue that could get solved while Iím waiting for NAMM.
Posted By: conundrum

Re: Yamaha MODX - 01/16/19 05:14 PM

Anyone seen one of these in Canada? They almost seem to be like Unicorns.
Posted By: polo

Re: Yamaha MODX - 01/31/19 02:36 PM

Well this thread certainly died down...
Posted By: Randelph

Re: Yamaha MODX - 01/31/19 02:59 PM

Yeah, haven't heard from you new board users in awhile. Would love to hear more about the workflow / user friendliness of the interface for different common tasks, as well as the playability of the keybeds.
Posted By: GregC

Re: Yamaha MODX - 01/31/19 03:01 PM

Originally Posted By: polo
Well this thread certainly died down...


yes. whats up with that ?

1]Folks that have the ModX are enjoying it.

2]Shoppers have enough info and are on the fence

3] Waiting for one to fall off the back of a UPS truck
Posted By: polo

Re: Yamaha MODX - 01/31/19 03:15 PM

They are flying off the retail shelves here in the U.S.

All of the major music retailers have sold out of the 88 key version; and most have sold out of the 76 key version (a few have some but very low stock).

They are on back order with waiting lists.
Posted By: nursers

Re: Yamaha MODX - 01/31/19 10:21 PM

Originally Posted By: Randelph
Yeah, haven't heard from you new board users in awhile. Would love to hear more about the workflow / user friendliness of the interface for different common tasks, as well as the playability of the keybeds.


I've had mine now a number of months and am actively using it in a band. I've said it before but it bears repeating: the workflow is a major improvement on what I'm used to with the Kronos.

It's just plain easier and the touchscreen is so much more responsive. It nearly makes setting up live sets and performances a pleasure wink

Sound-wise I'm yet to get stuck on a sound I can't find for a song - sure I'd like more retro pads but there are enough to work with. Add in great third-party sounds like Busch's great vintage key suite and I'm rapt thu

Then there's how light the damn thing is - appreciate that every time I lug it.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 01/31/19 11:16 PM

I pretty much agree with nursers. I'll add that, despite having fewer controls, I prefer it to Kronos for real-time control. The controls are easier to see and well-spaced, the knobs are endless, the pitch/mod are wheels instead of joystick. Boots in a reasonable amount of time, too. And 76-keys in a board that weighs less than the K61. Kronos has its advantages... the VA synth engines are cool, the huge SSD capacity, aftertouch, assignable outs, more MIDI flexibility, better organs, it's a great board. But the MODX has enough of what I need to handle my gigging needs, and I actually haven't turned the Kronos on since getting the MODX. Despite everything else the Kronos has, the MODX is more fun to use. It feels more like an instrument and less like a computer. I'd like to see Korg update the (2005?) interface and physical ergonomics.
Posted By: Randelph

Re: Yamaha MODX - 02/01/19 05:25 AM

Wow, Nursers and AnotherScott, thanks for the mini review! I've been burned a few times by the Yamaha interface, so user friendliness and flow is real important.

Besides learning a board in general, it oftentimes feels like a tedious task to do the basics of auditioning hundreds, even thousands of sounds, massaging my favorites to my liking, then developing multis that plays predictably, flexibly and to my satisfaction. And part of that tedium is that this process takes an unreasonable amount of time- perhaps I'm just slow in the way I approach these tasks, hard to say, but I most welcome boards that make these most basic tasks faster, more fun and more intuitive to perform.

As far as the keybed- I'd for sure get the 76 note. Guess I'll have to scour for more reviews of the keybed.
Posted By: mcpepe

Re: Yamaha MODX - 02/01/19 05:59 AM

Talking about the Modx8 keyboard. There have been a few reports about the keyboard itself beeing noisy? after a few months of use.
You cannot buy a new Modx8 till April, as Thomann said to me (March 28th). Do you think they may be solving these issues?
Posted By: KorgyPorky

Re: Yamaha MODX - 02/01/19 02:14 PM

Overhere in Holland prices from Modx8 have dropped from Ä1850 to Ä1530 ove the lastweek or so..

Delivery times are up to 6 and 7 weeks tough, noboddy has any in stock..

So what am i missing here?
Posted By: GregC

Re: Yamaha MODX - 02/01/19 06:42 PM

Originally Posted By: KorgyPorky
Overhere in Holland prices from Modx8 have dropped from Ä1850 to Ä1530 ove the lastweek or so..

Delivery times are up to 6 and 7 weeks tough, noboddy has any in stock..

So what am i missing here?


I don't know. Possibly each 'country ' has its own circumstances.

For example, is there a 'country distributor ' for Yamaha in Holland ?

Here in the US , we have Yamaha Corporation of America

Yamaha is mega large so how they distribute might be complex.

For sure, your dealer knows the story.

Here in US, my 2 nearest GC's have a good supply [ 3 or 4] of the Modx88.

Thats not of much help for whats/what in Holland.
Posted By: nursers

Re: Yamaha MODX - 02/01/19 07:16 PM

Originally Posted By: Randelph
Wow, Nursers and AnotherScott, thanks for the mini review! I've been burned a few times by the Yamaha interface, so user friendliness and flow is real important.

Besides learning a board in general, it oftentimes feels like a tedious task to do the basics of auditioning hundreds, even thousands of sounds, massaging my favorites to my liking, then developing multis that plays predictably, flexibly and to my satisfaction. And part of that tedium is that this process takes an unreasonable amount of time- perhaps I'm just slow in the way I approach these tasks, hard to say, but I most welcome boards that make these most basic tasks faster, more fun and more intuitive to perform.

As far as the keybed- I'd for sure get the 76 note. Guess I'll have to scour for more reviews of the keybed.


Glad to help but just a disclaimer - I've only set up 50 or so performances / splits etc so I can't vouch it's the ideal workflow for much larger tasks wink I'm also just comparing to the Kronos.
Posted By: theshinenz

Re: Yamaha MODX - 02/01/19 07:32 PM

Originally Posted By: nursers


Glad to help but just a disclaimer - I've only set up 50 or so performances / splits etc so I can't vouch it's the ideal workflow for much larger tasks wink I'm also just comparing to the Kronos.


Can you use parts 9-16 to control external gear from the Yamaha keybed or do you have to sacrifice one of the first 8 channels? Last time I had a montage I remember enjoying it but from memory you could control sounds on those channels 9-16 from an external keyboard but not the other way around?
Posted By: theshinenz

Re: Yamaha MODX - 02/01/19 07:44 PM

The other thing about the Montage that has been beaten to death on the Yamahasynth forums is the hard coding of midi channels to parts, so no way to say stack 4 sounds on the one midi channel like Roland FA or Kronos can do.... hope in future yamaha starts listening to the people instead of stating Yamaha just works differently from other synths.
Posted By: nursers

Re: Yamaha MODX - 02/01/19 08:13 PM

Originally Posted By: theshinenz
Originally Posted By: nursers


Glad to help but just a disclaimer - I've only set up 50 or so performances / splits etc so I can't vouch it's the ideal workflow for much larger tasks wink I'm also just comparing to the Kronos.


Can you use parts 9-16 to control external gear from the Yamaha keybed or do you have to sacrifice one of the first 8 channels? Last time I had a montage I remember enjoying it but from memory you could control sounds on those channels 9-16 from an external keyboard but not the other way around?



No idea on this sorry smile
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 02/01/19 09:18 PM

Originally Posted By: theshinenz
Can you use parts 9-16 to control external gear from the Yamaha keybed or do you have to sacrifice one of the first 8 channels?

Normally, the MODX's own keys only trigger parts 1 through 8, which can be any combination of internal and external sounds. However, there is an exception, you can also select any single Part from 9-16, and the MODX will play that part and only that part, and that part can also be your choice of an internal or external sound. Therefore, it is possible to be playing an 8-part internal sound (on parts 1-8), and then switch to trigger an external sound on part 9 (for example), meaning you do not have to sacrifice one of the first 8 to play your external sound... but while you are playing part 9 to trigger your external sound, you would no longer be playing any of the internal sounds you had assigned to parts 1-8. So your choices are basically (a) sacrifice an internal part in order to be able to play a mix-and-match of internal and external parts simultaneously, or (b) avoid sacrificing an internal part, but then you are limited to one external part, and whenever you play it, it will play by itself (or actualy, you can layer a single internal sound with it, I believe... but you can't play it simultaneously with the sounds you've selected for Parts 1 through 8).

Originally Posted By: theshinenz
The other thing about the Montage that has been beaten to death on the Yamahasynth forums is the hard coding of midi channels to parts, so no way to say stack 4 sounds on the one midi channel like Roland FA or Kronos can do.... hope in future yamaha starts listening to the people instead of stating Yamaha just works differently from other synths.

In terms of being able to play multiple Montage/MODX parts from an external controller (separate from the parts being played on the Montage/MODX itself), there are ways around it. One is to select a controller keyboard that supports 4 zones. Another is to take your one-zone controller and put it through a device (MIDI Solutions box, iPhone/iPad) which can take the one channel of MIDI input and route it to 4 MIDI channels of output. (Or 8, to cover all possibilities.) Since Yamaha has clearly heard complaints about this, and has not been stingy with coming out with updates/enhancements for the Montage, my guess if that there is something deep in the architecture that makes this difficult or impossible to change, or something about changing this would create as many problems as it would solve. My guess is that it may have to do with the introduction of multi-part single instruments. This allowed instruments to have more than 8 elements, but this function is tightly tied to MIDI assignments, since each of the 8-element Parts must be assigned to a separate MIDI channel. Allowing the user to freely assign channels to parts could break these instruments.
Posted By: theshinenz

Re: Yamaha MODX - 02/02/19 01:16 AM

Thanks for the info mate... I do prefer the screen and workflow of the montage over my Kronos, but think the work arounds would make it more hassle than the benefits. Although i could achieve what I need to on the Montage I enjoy the freedom and ease of setting midi channels on the Korg. Hoping that Korg brings out a new flagship workstation in the next year or two.
Posted By: jimkost2002

Re: Yamaha MODX - 02/02/19 08:40 AM

I was thinking of getting a MODX 8 until i heard reports on the key clacking and build quailty......
Címon Yamaha, you had the perfect board in theory, then you ruin it with a cheapass build thatís gonna atmize right after the 1year warranty?...?
I mean, if CASIO can build high quailty boardsa at a sub $1500 price point, certainly YOU can do it under 2k!
Posted By: lsj

Re: Yamaha MODX - 02/02/19 09:40 AM

what is Busch's great vintage suite. is that a voice library that can be purchased. I would be interested.
Posted By: lsj

Re: Yamaha MODX - 02/02/19 09:53 AM

is anybody out there having trouble with Sound Mondo for the modx
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 02/02/19 12:48 PM

Originally Posted By: jimkost2002
I was thinking of getting a MODX 8 until i heard reports on the key clacking and build quailty......
Címon Yamaha, you had the perfect board in theory, then you ruin it with a cheapass build thatís gonna atmize right after the 1year warranty?...?
I mean, if CASIO can build high quailty boardsa at a sub $1500 price point, certainly YOU can do it under 2k!

I've seen some complaints about the action (still anecdotal at this point), but not overall build quality. But if you want higher quality action and/or more substantial build under $2k from Yamaha, you can get it... look at boards like the CP40, CP73, P515. Okay, they don't do everything the MODX does, but neither do the Casios. ;-) Under $2k can get you X or Y, bu if you want X and Y, things get pricier. You can get a MODX with higher quality action and build (among other things), it's called a Montage.
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 02/02/19 02:18 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: jimkost2002
I was thinking of getting a MODX 8 until i heard reports on the key clacking and build quailty......
Címon Yamaha, you had the perfect board in theory, then you ruin it with a cheapass build thatís gonna atmize right after the 1year warranty?...?
I mean, if CASIO can build high quailty boardsa at a sub $1500 price point, certainly YOU can do it under 2k!

I've seen some complaints about the action (still anecdotal at this point), but not overall build quality. But if you want higher quality action and/or more substantial build under $2k from Yamaha, you can get it... look at boards like the CP40, CP73, P515. Okay, they don't do everything the MODX does, but neither do the Casios. ;-) Under $2k can get you X or Y, bu if you want X and Y, things get pricier. You can get a MODX with higher quality action and build (among other things), it's called a Montage.


I have the 7, i hear this talk of key noise - but i either a playing with closed headphones to mp3 (e.g self practice) or iím playing with a rock band. I havenít heard a key strike in the last 7 years of now 6 different bands. I guess if youíre playing solo piano, intimate environment, etc., that sort of thing - it is a factor. Itís just not in my list so i canít help.

As to build quality - its as good or better than anything else in its segment - all purpose light weight gigging synth/keyboard. If its compared to a $3500+ flagship instrument - it might not measure up. Best to compare it to its relevant segment competitors. I donít know of a better quality 76 key sub-20lb all purpose synth keyboard that does as much at $1499, but maybe iím overlooking something. FA-07 is really the only competitor in that nitch imho.

Both have pros and cons, i donít see another option in that segment

I think if youíre looking at MODX8 because you want a pro stage piano - look at boards specifically deigned to be stage pianos. It can fill in with AP fine, but that s not its singular purpose or design focus like other options
Posted By: pjd

Re: Yamaha MODX - 02/02/19 03:01 PM

I agree with MotiDave. I'm playing the MODX6 and gig with it weekly.

I enjoyed playing AP/EP on MODX8. Bought the MODX6 because I play mainly synth and organ.

Try before buy, try before buy. Hands-on experience is more useful than "reports." We'll know better once the new CPs are in the store and we can A/B the actions and playing experience.

All the best -- pj
Posted By: GregC

Re: Yamaha MODX - 02/02/19 03:06 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: theshinenz
Can you use parts 9-16 to control external gear from the Yamaha keybed or do you have to sacrifice one of the first 8 channels?

Normally, the MODX's own keys only trigger parts 1 through 8, which can be any combination of internal and external sounds. However, there is an exception, you can also select any single Part from 9-16, and the MODX will play that part and only that part, and that part can also be your choice of an internal or external sound. Therefore, it is possible to be playing an 8-part internal sound (on parts 1-8), and then switch to trigger an external sound on part 9 (for example), meaning you do not have to sacrifice one of the first 8 to play your external sound... but while you are playing part 9 to trigger your external sound, you would no longer be playing any of the internal sounds you had assigned to parts 1-8. So your choices are basically (a) sacrifice an internal part in order to be able to play a mix-and-match of internal and external parts simultaneously, or (b) avoid sacrificing an internal part, but then you are limited to one external part, and whenever you play it, it will play by itself (or actualy, you can layer a single internal sound with it, I believe... but you can't play it simultaneously with the sounds you've selected for Parts 1 through 8).

Originally Posted By: theshinenz
The other thing about the Montage that has been beaten to death on the Yamahasynth forums is the hard coding of midi channels to parts, so no way to say stack 4 sounds on the one midi channel like Roland FA or Kronos can do.... hope in future yamaha starts listening to the people instead of stating Yamaha just works differently from other synths.

In terms of being able to play multiple Montage/MODX parts from an external controller (separate from the parts being played on the Montage/MODX itself), there are ways around it. One is to select a controller keyboard that supports 4 zones. Another is to take your one-zone controller and put it through a device (MIDI Solutions box, iPhone/iPad) which can take the one channel of MIDI input and route it to 4 MIDI channels of output. (Or 8, to cover all possibilities.) Since Yamaha has clearly heard complaints about this, and has not been stingy with coming out with updates/enhancements for the Montage, my guess if that there is something deep in the architecture that makes this difficult or impossible to change, or something about changing this would create as many problems as it would solve. My guess is that it may have to do with the introduction of multi-part single instruments. This allowed instruments to have more than 8 elements, but this function is tightly tied to MIDI assignments, since each of the 8-element Parts must be assigned to a separate MIDI channel. Allowing the user to freely assign channels to parts could break these instruments.


I appreciate the details,Scott. I have read your post twice and still not sure I follow it completely.

I am concerned about 16 track recording and normal use of midi of ModX with other midi keyboards. It strikes me that Yamaha is forcing a workaround to basic 16 channel midi.

Likely I need a video and more manual study. And Korg + Roland has me brain washed.
I can route my FA into the Kronos and record FA tracks- just an example.
Posted By: KorgyPorky

Re: Yamaha MODX - 02/02/19 04:13 PM

Originally Posted By: theshinenz
The other thing about the Montage that has been beaten to death on the Yamahasynth forums is the hard coding of midi channels to parts, so no way to say stack 4 sounds on the one midi channel like Roland FA or Kronos can do.... hope in future yamaha starts listening to the people instead of stating Yamaha just works differently from other synths.


I have an ipad controlling allinstruments..
Its also a midi router, its easy to send the same midi to 4 midi channels..
There is allways an easy workaround for any problem..
No instrument is perfect, thats why we willprobably allways be using more then one instrument..

The problem with the internet and people allways whining amd complaining is that problems are allways blown out of proportions..

This probably also is the case for the modx keyboard clacking described in this topic..

There is no single instrument brand (not even behringer) offering so much bang for the buck as the Yamaha modx 6...
Posted By: gg22

Re: Yamaha MODX - 02/02/19 04:26 PM

Originally Posted By: jimkost2002
I was thinking of getting a MODX 8 until i heard reports on the key clacking and build quailty......
Címon Yamaha, you had the perfect board in theory, then you ruin it with a cheapass build thatís gonna atmize right after the 1year warranty?...?
I mean, if CASIO can build high quailty boardsa at a sub $1500 price point, certainly YOU can do it under 2k!


So in your opinion MODX8 has a lesser build quality and more clicking noise than Casio's? I have completely opposite experience.
Posted By: Fleer

Re: Yamaha MODX - 02/02/19 04:40 PM

I think it's not a generic issue. Some of Yamaha's GHS (MODX8) actions develop clanky noises because of lack of impact curtailing felt of sorts. Could be a quality thing limited to a number of keybeds, as suggested in other threads. Meanwhile, some of the MODX6/7 boards are called flimsy and noisy by a few posters.
As they are in back order almost everywhere, we could see improved ones in a few months, but this is a (wild though hopeful) guess.
Anyway, had a MODX8 but sent it back.
Will get a MODX7 later on.
These boards rock.
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 02/02/19 05:14 PM

If you hear keys, just play louder smile. I played Motif XF7, MOXF6, and now MODX7. MODX7 is better but similar to MOXF6 and not that much different than XF7. XF7 is twice as heavy so its feels more substantial - i donít know you can get to equal and reduce weight by 1/2. Thatís Montage. Iíll take the weight loss and live happily with the keys.

Best advice is try b4 buy - everyone has different desires, feelings, priorities. If youíre ordering online - if you absolutely hate MOXF6, you wonít be happy (my guess - maybe you will be). If you were ok with MOXF6 youíll love MODX6/7 as its just easier to do anything or everything, and is improved sonically. Maybe something else is for you - important thing is buy what YOU like, not what a forum moron like me says smile

I tried MODX8 - having played semi/synth weight for now 7 years, it felt heavy slow sluggish. Which is probably more me than it.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 02/02/19 05:38 PM

Originally Posted By: GregC
I appreciate the details,Scott. I have read your post twice and still not sure I follow it completely.

I am concerned about 16 track recording and normal use of midi of ModX with other midi keyboards. It strikes me that Yamaha is forcing a workaround to basic 16 channel midi.

My post was all in the context of live performance, which might explain why it wouldn't all make sense for you. I've never done any MIDI recording with it.

That said, in terms of 16 track recording, the MODX is not a workstation, it does not include a full function sequencer, so if you want to do 16 track recording, you would use your DAW. So I think there's no MODX MIDI limitation there, unless you want to play more than 8 parts simultaneously into your DAW.

As for 16 track playback, it can do that.
Posted By: yamoho

Re: Yamaha MODX - 02/02/19 05:56 PM

Originally Posted By: MotiDave
I'm picking my MODX7 up after work - traffic and schedule permitting. Sorry to twang my one note as I seem rather lonely in this passionate pursuit:

Why has acquired a case for MODX7:
- yammaha MODX7 gig bag
- other gig bag (e.g. Gator, other - which?)
- rigid case - TSA approved latches

Thoughts, recommendations? I think I may get both a TSA worthy molded case and a gig bag both so all sides of the equation (short of plywood flight case) are very welcome


Anyone found any alternatives to the Yamaha Gig Bag? The MODX7 is an odd size, too big for standard 61-key bag and too small for 76-key bags. I am looking for a soft gig bag, something like the GKB bags for Gator.
Posted By: KorgyPorky

Re: Yamaha MODX - 02/02/19 06:19 PM

Originally Posted By: yamoho
Originally Posted By: MotiDave
I'm picking my MODX7 up after work - traffic and schedule permitting. Sorry to twang my one note as I seem rather lonely in this passionate pursuit:

Why has acquired a case for MODX7:
- yammaha MODX7 gig bag
- other gig bag (e.g. Gator, other - which?)
- rigid case - TSA approved latches

Thoughts, recommendations? I think I may get both a TSA worthy molded case and a gig bag both so all sides of the equation (short of plywood flight case) are very welcome


Anyone found any alternatives to the Yamaha Gig Bag? The MODX7 is an odd size, too big for standard 61-key bag and too small for 76-key bags. I am looking for a soft gig bag, something like the GKB bags for Gator.


Sizewise, it should fit in a 76 key nord stage bag..
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 02/02/19 06:36 PM

If you're looking for something low cost, the Yamaha YBNP76 (Piaggero bag) works for the MODX7.
Posted By: jimkost2002

Re: Yamaha MODX - 02/02/19 08:03 PM

Originally Posted By: gg22
Originally Posted By: jimkost2002
I was thinking of getting a MODX 8 until i heard reports on the key clacking and build quailty......
Címon Yamaha, you had the perfect board in theory, then you ruin it with a cheapass build thatís gonna atmize right after the 1year warranty?...?
I mean, if CASIO can build high quailty boardsa at a sub $1500 price point, certainly YOU can do it under 2k!


So in your opinion MODX8 has a lesser build quality and more clicking noise than Casio's? I have completely opposite experience.


I know that PX5s had those issues but when I had one I didnít experience them.
Granted, I only used it intermittently for backup practice and not as a primary board.
I briefly had a PX560s for a week till I got my RD 2000 and I had a mostly good experience with that also. I would never have one as a primary board. I detest the thinness of the top 2 octaves .
But for a sub 1500 board, itís quite ok.
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 02/02/19 08:49 PM

Originally Posted By: jimkost2002
Originally Posted By: gg22
So in your opinion MODX8 has a lesser build quality and more clicking noise than Casio's? I have completely opposite experience.

I know that PX5s had those issues but when I had one I didnít experience them.

Many people with MODX8 are not experiencing any issues, either.
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 02/02/19 09:13 PM

Originally Posted By: KorgyPorky
Originally Posted By: yamoho
Originally Posted By: MotiDave
I'm picking my MODX7 up after work - traffic and schedule permitting. Sorry to twang my one note as I seem rather lonely in this passionate pursuit:

Why has acquired a case for MODX7:
- yammaha MODX7 gig bag
- other gig bag (e.g. Gator, other - which?)
- rigid case - TSA approved latches

Thoughts, recommendations? I think I may get both a TSA worthy molded case and a gig bag both so all sides of the equation (short of plywood flight case) are very welcome


Anyone found any alternatives to the Yamaha Gig Bag? The MODX7 is an odd size, too big for standard 61-key bag and too small for 76-key bags. I am looking for a soft gig bag, something like the GKB bags for Gator.


Sizewise, it should fit in a 76 key nord stage bag..


I read of one MODX7 owner who got this Gator G-PG-76SLIM. Length and width are ok, he said it was a tad Ďsnugí at first but after a few uses the bag relaxed to fit it nicely. Iíve been thinking about this one - i got the Yamaha bag and it really gives little confidence to me. Have to baby protect the board almost as much as if it was naked. It has backpack straps so i can carry it hands free but otherwise i donít trust it to protect it.

Gator 76 Slim
Posted By: yamoho

Re: Yamaha MODX - 02/02/19 09:27 PM

Thanx Dave! Looks like a nice bag, and based on dimensions, I can see why it might be a little snug, but still I imagine it fits. Good feedback from the other person that you heard from. I have always liked products from Gator, well-made and offer good protection.
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 02/03/19 02:01 AM

Originally Posted By: yamoho
Thanx Dave! Looks like a nice bag, and based on dimensions, I can see why it might be a little snug, but still I imagine it fits. Good feedback from the other person that you heard from. I have always liked products from Gator, well-made and offer good protection.


if you do get it, post back - iím ďthisĒ close to pulling the trigger - really tempted by lack complete motivation. I read a review on i think amazon that said throw away the backpack straps when you get it - they suck but the bag is great even with handle.

And i thought - ... but .. but i want it as a backpack, damnit! If i have to carry it in my hand, might as well just roll my molded SKB hard case.
Posted By: nursers

Re: Yamaha MODX - 02/03/19 03:19 AM

Originally Posted By: lsj
what is Busch's great vintage suite. is that a voice library that can be purchased. I would be interested.



http://purgatorycreek.com
Posted By: jimkost2002

Re: Yamaha MODX - 02/03/19 07:49 AM

I talked online to a guy who published a review regarding the MODX8 build quality and his conclusion was that the MODX8 was build like a cheap bedroom controller and would not stand up to the rigors of gigging.
His observations made perfect sense to me and was consistent with what Yamaha felt they had to do to bring the MODX feature set in at the price point they did.
It might be fine to sit in a bedroom studio, but if its gonna break if you look at it wrong then Iím out.

Again, for me, it comes down to my being able to use a keyboard for at least 5-8 years before I have to think about replacing it.....
I donít want to have ďis this gonna break on me if it slips outof my grip and drops from 5 feetĒ?
Posted By: mojkarma

Re: Yamaha MODX - 02/03/19 09:39 AM

Originally Posted By: jimkost2002
I talked online to a guy who published a review regarding the MODX8 build quality and his conclusion was that the MODX8 was build like a cheap bedroom controller and would not stand up to the rigors of gigging.


This IMO is a complete nonsense. I'm asking myself, are you guys actually playing keyboards on stage or beating them and forcing them to fall off from their stands? I'm gigging for 25 years and for Christ sake I can't imagine a situation where I could find any reason why a Montage (which I own) would be more durable as a gigging keyboard compared to a Modx.

Originally Posted By: jimkost2002
I donít want to have ďis this gonna break on me if it slips outof my grip and drops from 5 feetĒ?


Just curious, are you serious with that argument? Do you really think you can use a Montage or Kronos after it felt from 5 feet height?
Posted By: AnotherScott

Re: Yamaha MODX - 02/03/19 11:02 AM

Originally Posted By: jimkost2002
I talked online to a guy who published a review regarding the MODX8 build quality and his conclusion was that the MODX8 was build like a cheap bedroom controller and would not stand up to the rigors of gigging.

I've seen no indication that its overall build quality is any lesser than the plastic chassis models that preceded it, i.e. MOX8/MOXF8 which go back 8 years now, and afaik, are not dropping like flies. But also, you might select a different kind of build if you were in the business of supplying backline to road crews than if you were buying something you were personally going to move in your own car. Or at least you'd buy different cases. ;-)
Originally Posted By: mojkarma
Do you really think you can use a Montage or Kronos after it felt from 5 feet height?

Interesting question. Depends how they land, for one thing. But I would expect a plastic chassis MODX could easily crack where a metal chassis board would not. As for what happens to the rest of it, I don't know. Lighter could conceivably fare better than heavier in many cases, like in the likelihood that the touchscreen would crack.
Posted By: MotiDave

Re: Yamaha MODX - 02/03/19 11:39 AM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: jimkost2002
I talked online to a guy who published a review regarding the MODX8 build quality and his conclusion was that the MODX8 was build like a cheap bedroom controller and would not stand up to the rigors of gigging.

I've seen no indication that its overall build quality is any lesser than the plastic chassis models that preceded it, i.e. MOX8/MOXF8 which go back 8 years now, and afaik, are not dropping like flies. But also, you might select a different kind of build if you were in the business of supplying backline to road crews than if you were buying something you were personally going to move in your own car. Or at least you'd buy different cases. ;-)
Originally Posted By: mojkarma
Do you really think you can use a Montage or Kronos after it felt from 5 feet height?

Interesting question. Depends how they land, for one thing. But I would expect a plastic chassis MODX could easily crack where a metal chassis board would not. As for what happens to the rest of it, I don't know. Lighter could conceivably fare better than heavier in many cases, like in the likelihood that the touchscreen would crack.


I dropped a Motif XF7 ~3ft when an old pedestal stand shelf collapsed, I semi-slowed its descent to the floor by grabbing in shock and it followed the pedestal column down - it was far milder than a true 3 foot dead drop in space. It suffered a dent in the bottom of chassis and E note below middle C chipped on the front under-edge. It survived - Yamaha tough. No other damage or impact.

premature wearout as onlinereviewguy reportedly predicts isnít the same as impact toughness / resistance. Do we have a link to onlinereviewguy? Iím curious what he said ...
Posted By: jimkost2002

Re: Yamaha MODX - 02/03/19 12:15 PM

Originally Posted By: mojkarma
Originally Posted By: jimkost2002
I talked online to a guy who published a review regarding the MODX8 build quality and his conclusion was that the MODX8 was build like a cheap bedroom controller and would not stand up to the rigors of gigging.


This IMO is a complete nonsense. I'm asking myself, are you guys actually playing keyboards on stage or beating them and forcing them to fall off from their stands? I'm gigging for 25 years and for Christ sake I can't imagine a situation where I could find any reason why a Montage (which I own) would be more durable as a gigging keyboard compared to a Modx.

Originally Posted By: jimkost2002
I donít want to have ďis this gonna break on me if it slips outof my grip and drops from 5 feetĒ?


Just curious, are you serious with that argument? Do you really think you can use a Montage or Kronos after it felt from 5 feet height?


Have you played at festivals where the overworked in house crew makes an all to human mistake?
Or had an airline frieght crew mishandle a piece of gear?
I had a colleague who had a Kurzweil damaged this way.
TSA didnt relock the ATA case correctly and the Kurz fell out face down when leaving the cargo bay and the crew just watched it happen,
Granted this is an extreme situation, but you have to be prepared for catastrophic events.
Iíve done this enough years to be prepared for the worst.
So, if youre gonna come at me, come correct.
All due respect

I have used most of SIR Chelseaís backline from the 90s thru 2005 and know the techs that worked there pretty well.. As well as other rehearsal studios in LA, Miami and other major US cities. Not to mention tours stopping in Paris, London and Prague.
I hate to toot my own horn, but I do have a bit of real world experience.
Posted By: jimkost2002

Re: Yamaha MODX - 02/03/19 12:17 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: jimkost2002
I talked online to a guy who published a review regarding the MODX8 build quality and his conclusion was that the MODX8 was build like a cheap bedroom controller and would not stand up to the rigors of gigging.

I've seen no indication that its overall build quality is any lesser than the plastic chassis models that preceded it, i.e. MOX8/MOXF8 which go back 8 years now, and afaik, are not dropping like flies. But also, you might select a different kind of build if you were in the business of supplying backline to road crews than if you were buying something you were personally going to move in your own car. Or at least you'd buy different cases. ;-)
Originally Posted By: mojkarma
Do you really think you can use a Montage or Kronos after it felt from 5 feet height?

Interesting question. Depends how they land, for one thing. But I would expect a plastic chassis MODX could easily crack where a metal chassis board would not. As for what happens to the rest of it, I don't know. Lighter could conceivably fare better than heavier in many cases, like in the likelihood that the touchscreen would crack.


Exactly my point, Scott.
A friend plays at a club where they replaced an S80 with an MOFX and we will see how long it lasts.
Posted By: jimkost2002

Re: Yamaha MODX - 02/03/19 12:18 PM

Originally Posted By: MotiDave
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: jimkost2002
I talked online to a guy who published a review regarding the MODX8 build quality and his conclusion was that the MODX8 was build like a cheap bedroom controller and would not stand up to the rigors of gigging.

I've seen no indication that its overall build quality is any lesser than the plastic chassis models that preceded it, i.e. MOX8/MOXF8 which go back 8 years now, and afaik, are not dropping like flies. But also, you might select a different kind of build if you were in the business of supplying backline to road crews than if you were buying something you were personally going to move in your own car. Or at least you'd buy different cases. ;-)
Originally Posted By: mojkarma
Do you really think you can use a Montage or Kronos after it felt from 5 feet height?

Interesting question. Depends how they land, for one thing. But I would expect a plastic chassis MODX could easily crack where a metal chassis board would not. As for what happens to the rest of it, I don't know. Lighter could conceivably fare better than heavier in many cases, like in the likelihood that the touchscreen would crack.


I dropped a Motif XF7 ~3ft when an old pedestal stand shelf collapsed, I semi-slowed its descent to the floor by grabbing in shock and it followed the pedestal column down - it was far milder than a true 3 foot dead drop in space. It suffered a dent in the bottom of chassis and E note below middle C chipped on the front under-edge. It survived - Yamaha tough. No other damage or impact.

premature wearout as onlinereviewguy reportedly predicts isnít the same as impact toughness / resistance. Do we have a link to onlinereviewguy? Iím curious what he said ...


Its on the Sweetwater site.

Look, my point is this:
If I spend in the ball park of 2K or more on a keyboard that Iím gonna use out of the house, I want it to hold up to what the city or clubs dish out. These things devalue quicker than cars.
Posted By: KorgyPorky

Re: Yamaha MODX - 02/03/19 03:54 PM

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
But I would expect a plastic chassis MODX could easily crack where a metal chassis board would not. As for what happens to the rest of it, I don't know. Lighter could conceivably fare better than heavier in many cases, like in the likelihood that the touchscreen would crack.


People underestimate the strength of todays high quallity plastics..

I had a drunk storming on stage crashing my keyboard rig..my Genos dropped 4 foot dow on a corner, one would expect a killer drop.. but there was no crack, just a scratch.. and the keyboard was still as straight as ever..

The big advantage of todays plasticks are its incredible flexibillity combined with metal like strength..

When a metal keyboard drops, chances are huge that it will be bent amd not straight anymore..

Now there definately is a huge amount of different plastics, but todays high end plastics are stronger then metal cases... and lighter..when metal bends, its not as flexible as these plastics..
Posted By: Randelph

Re: Yamaha MODX - 02/03/19 04:33 PM

And it depends