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#973939 04/21/00 09:16 PM
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I am curious to know what some of you nice folks think about the future of recording. It seems everyone and their uncle has a home studio with some sort of disc based media. Are big studios going to be a thing of the past? What about virtual recording, with storage being done at some cyber location, where you log on to access your tracks, have your musicians log on to add their parts. Obviously gear is getting smaller and more powerful. I am not convinced that music sounds better now than it did 30 years ago. Where do you think we're heading? Who wants to try to predict the future. What skills will be needed. Will the traditional role of the recording engineer become obsolete? I am anxious to hear from ya'll, as you guys seem to be on the cutting edge of computer based recording.
ec

#973940 04/21/00 10:24 PM
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Hi Ed,

In my other life, I'm a cultural historian of mechanical and electronic media. I think about this stuff a lot, and it seems to me that we're going in multiple directions at once.

It's not just a technology thing. There's obviously the skill of the engineer (as Mix Fix often points out), and the thing about amateurs is that some will have a real gift but most others (like me) have to spend time and learn and play around with stuff. If you spend all your time doing something for years and years, it makes a difference. In my profession, people who can write well sound good right away, but they don't have the depth or flexibility of someone who's been reading, writing, and teaching for decades. It's the same with recording.

Additionally, there's the economics of it. Really expensive pro studios require people willing to put up the dough -- ie the music industry. There's a kind of economic circuit going on there, and it seems like major label acts don't generally get into home stuff until they're established.

And we've yet to find a home medium that sounds like 2" 24-track, with a big-league board going through Neumann mics, Urei compressors, etc. etc.

The real difference, I think, will be in smaller studios that used to derive their revenue for beginning bands and one-time things. The gear is catching up to the old DIY ethos of punk so it doesn't have to sound like crap to be "indy" anymore. That's wonderful to me.

For me, and no offense Ed, this is kind of sad because the big $$ music industry will be the least hurt by it -- it's the smaller independent studios that served a whole community that are most in danger.

Technologies don't kill professions; professions kill professions.

Of course, now they get gigs recording video game soundtracks as well.

JES

#973941 04/21/00 11:05 PM
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Hi Ed. I posed a question very similiar to this on another (DAW) BB a while back. I was surprised that everyone (lots of replies) seemed firm on talent<>gear, or tools<>talent. There was a resounding "it's mostly the talent of the musicians and the engineer/producer; the gear is just allowing more people to use their talent."

I'm a little uneasy about it, though. Before, you had to REALLY want to do this. There are folks dropping 5K on DAWs that don't know what a pre is. I read it. I wonder where they get all their money...

Anyway, best quote from the post went something like:

"Everyone has access to paint, canvas, and supplies. Does that make a Picasso any less desirable/valuable?"

After a while I hope you'll post Your thoughts on this topic.

#973942 04/22/00 03:48 AM
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Though things change, they will always remain the same.

Talent will ALWAYS win out over technology, except for totally Capitalistic purposes.

How many guys/gals can sit with just an acoustic guitar, or piano, and vocal, or JUST their voice, and keep a large crowd spellbound for hours?

A few always could, and a few always will, no matter WHAT the technology or instument is, or will be.

I have to paraphrase this, and I'm sorry I can't remember whose quote it was, but it goes something like this:

"It used to be said that a Million Monkeys at a Million Typewriters would eventually produce the Complete Works of Shakesphere. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is no longer true".

Just change that around a bit and substitute the words "recordists", and "Home Based Studios", and the like, and I think it still rings true.





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#973943 04/22/00 03:51 AM
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Oh yea, JES, thanks for noticing.

I also agree with your post, and it saddens me even more.



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#973944 04/22/00 04:20 AM
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I think that there will always be a need for great-sounding tracking rooms with top-shelf gear. Imagine how ridiculous it would be to have racks full of Avalon, GML, and Manley just to track vocals in your bathroom! This is how I work now: record to my harddrive at a great studio with a PT system, bring it home and edit/mix, have someone lend an objective ear, burn to CD, done.

However, I think it's too bad that there seem to be fewer and fewer full-time in-house mix engineers with YEARS OF EXPERIENCE IN A PARTICULAR ROOM. Sure, I or anyone else can rent the room for a couple days to take advantage of their gear, but it would be foolish of me to think that I could 'learn' the aural character of that room in a day or two.

All that ranting aside, I think the business will become dominated by people who are self-contained: write it, record it, edit it, mix it, burn it, sell it (hopefully). It's nice to have that much control, but scary, too. I hope the well doesn't run dry...

#973945 04/22/00 04:41 AM
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Bob, I heard that same quote, except they substituted "AOL users" for "Monkeys".



What will the future bring? Well, Sadly, it will definitely bring 2 more Star Wars films. But that's another matter entirely.

Perhaps when we get the DVD format up to the a reasonable leve of storage (IBM said future DVD's will have 16 ply's of foil) we'll get MDM's based on read/write DVD's. That would be exciting. Sure, it's digital, but it's NOT magnetic media. Another step in the right direction. Media storage will take up less shelf space as well.

Naturally, gear will get better since technology should continue to rise as prices fall. Yeah yeah yeah, I know I have to insert Bob's caveat about good gear not equalling talent or good results (which I happen to agree with), here.

Small studios will get better because of this paradigm shift, but big studios will still kick our collective asses since they have better designed environments in which to track and mix.

Forums like this help educate people. Hopefully the net will be used to offer quality education to the masses, at inexpensive prices (if not free, after all, I am a linux user). Perhaps even Ed (after all, he's the best guy up here), Roger, and George will teach a few of these online classes.

The idea of mass, non-local storage is probably coming, but it scares me from a security standpoint. If it's there, I'm certainly not going to store anything critical there, and even at that I'll insist on some sort of public-key crypto system with proven 128-bit ciphers protecting everything.

The idea of being able to use the net to send finished mixes to my mastering engineer is convenient. DSL and cable modems are making that possible. Then he can send it back, and you can listen locally to see if you like....

Digital technology will improve to the point of being able to perfectly emulate the warmth of all things analog. That might piss a lot of analog guys off (and I'm one of them) but I'm also a computer-geek and a realist, and I know it's inevitable. After all, just 4 years ago Garry Kasparov said a computer wouldn't be able to defeat him in a chess match, in his lifetime... next thing ya know, he got his ass whooped by an IBM chess computer named Deep Blue.

I think it was Einstein who once said (paraphrasing), "The universe is weirder than we imagine, and weirder than we CAN imagine." and that applies here. The best breakthroughs in technology will be things we hadn't even thought of... and they'll be totally cool and bitchin.

But I'm a firm believer in a good balance of the old with the new, so no matter how cool the latest digital schmigital gear gets, I'll still mic my vocals with a U-67 (I've had good results with it).

The SETI At Home project will eventually find evidence of intelligence in another star system.

And finally, the Rolling Stones will do their final album and put the whole damn thing to rest!

Sorry, couldn't resist!

Rich...

#973946 04/22/00 05:03 AM
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Very interesting topic!

Just judging from my own experiences in the past 15 years, things really have changed...at least the procedures.

10 years ago I got myself a home setup to do arrangements and pre production...of course to save expensive studio time, and to be able to play around more freely with ideas before presenting them to the clients.
This meant that I could spend maybe 10% of my time at home, and with an identical setup in the studio I could just carry the samples and sequencer data with me there.

Now I have a full blown Pro Tools setup at home, and I'm even doing mixes here. (Of course I have a bunch of analog gear too...Urei's, Api's etc)
I'll do all the preperations and basic tracks at home, and then just book the studios for the instruments that I can't do here. (Bands, drums, strings etc.)
But all editing and single instrument overdubs are usually done at home. I actually prefer to do lead vocals here...and it seems like the artists feel more at ease this way too.
Another advantage is off course to be able to spend more time with your family, instead of being away for months in some studio.

For mixing I always start off by myself, and get everything ready and playing before the clients even arrive. They just come the last two days, and I load the mixes up so we can make the final adjustments together and print them.

I have even had tracks sent to me trough the net...usually single tracks (like a lead vocal remake) ...works fine.

Some clients don't even bother coming, and just want me to send a mp3 file of the final mix to approval (could also be SDII or AIFF files)

It seems to be the trend here (Denmark) that producers and engineers build PT setups instead of hiring the major studios for the mixing and dubbing....at least for pop/dance projects.

The major studios suffer a lot from this, and have to re-evaluate their purpose and niche...especially the big mixing rooms. (wich of course all have had to invest in Pro Tools too)
It seems to be hard to convince the producers (me and others) to spend the extra money to come and mix our projects on an SSL 9000j instead of just doing it in our own place.
The clients don't seem to notice any difference (!) anyway...and are happy to pay less for the mixing.

I agree with you that music doesn't sound any better objectively now than in the past 30 years (we still favour the old technology soundwise), but the methods have changed a lot...and the skills we need to operate and get good results on this new technology is a whole new challenge.

Your thoughts on a cyber location for storage is very exciting...I'd like if I could even bring an interface into my car, and make adjustments to the mixes while cruising around the neighbourhood
Maybe even call my favourite guitar player from the car, and make him add a guitar part while driving around?

There seem to be very few young engineers with acoustic recording skills emerging, but a bunch of midi and DAW magicians.
It seems to be more important (at least in much of the techno/dance based music) to be able to create funny filter effects, than to make a great sounding record. Also much of this music is based on pre recorded samples/beats and boxes or synths with a very hyped sound...so not much treatment is needed to make it sound "right".

If the record labels make more money on this kind of music, it is hard to convince them to give "real" music the budgets needed to do it properly.

Another aspect is that peoples perception of sound changes....soon a vox amp will only be something we know from a plug-in, and nobody will care what it sounds like in real life (?)

I guess good ears and the ability to create something that excites people, will always be the most important skill....the rest is definately changing fast.

Just some thoughts

#973947 04/22/00 05:38 AM
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some thoughts:

We are F**ked for getting paid in the future if college kids keep going, putting copyrighted work on the net for free.

Like Doug, I'm into "track 'n go studios", solid tracking studios with good drum rooms and iso booths for guitars and vocals. Book em for a few days (I wheel in a Pro Tools rig, dont bother with tape) split, then complete the project at home in a DAW. The bands I have done this with so far have enjoyed it.


My view is that however the industry turns out, acts will always welcome an objective 2nd pair of ears or "producer' on their music. I feel the role of producer secure for some time to come, it's just how acts, producers and studios will get paid that worries me.

Prediction: Live music might become the main 'earner' in an artists career. Perhaps in the future seeing a "real person" perform live will become a rare and very expensive treat. Perhaps recordings (all free or pirated) will just become promotions for live shows....

The peace movement in the 60' seemed to bring out some good rebellious music. Do we need another big war to gets some good tunes out?

No foreseeable change in the old adage, 'things were better in the old days'

As soon as the question, "how can we actually make some money out of music distributed via the internet" is answered, the effect will be like a starter pistol at a race or the scramble for land in the wild west.Until then, the general idea seems to be to, get them to come (to the web sites) and we will figure it out (how to earn money) later......

Record companies, wildly hated by acts without contracts, are generally unpopular entities, their downfall is genuinely looked forward by many music lovers.

Jules

[This message has been edited by Julian standen (edited 04-22-2000).]


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#973948 04/22/00 06:39 AM
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You know, I never leave my apartment much anymore. I can do all I have to from here. I love it. But I hate myself for loving it.

So we might not catch the Flu from venturing out amongst the masses, but we won't catch much fun either.

Even though we all can get, virtually, anything we want online, at home, delivered, via cell phones, or recording a guitarist from our cars while he sits in his Hot Tub, we're missing a lot of life.

We HAVE to get back to some NATURAL stuff, no matter how technically advanced the World gets.

AND, I'm the biggest offender of them all!! (Well, almost).

But, after reading these boards for the last few months, I've decided it's not going to totally suck me in, no matter HOW out of date I will seem to the 10 year old kids that can kick ALL our asses, when it comes to computer/digital/technology skills, or at least will be able to by the time they reach puberty!!

GO OUTSIDE!!

MEET people in person.

Take a walk, no beeper or cell phone!!

AND this is coming from someone who thinks "roughing it" is when room service is slow!!

I'm going to refuse to turn into an electron.

Thanks to you all; you've convinced me.

Virtual studios can wait for a while.

I actually TALKED ON THE PHONE to a fellow board poster today, AND IT WAS GOOD!!

I THINK I'LL GO HANG OUT WITH HIM SOMEPLACE, AND PLAY ACOUSTIC GUITAR!!

Summer's coming. I'm riding a bike, going to the beach, and using an internal combustion engine. I won't use Email or the Web for a week!!

AND, I'll...I'll...I'll... UNPLUG MY COMPUTER!!

And Rich, AOL users ARE Monkeys.

Happy Holidays all.

Go see your families. Have dinner with them.

This stuff will still be here when you get back!!

TOMMORROW'S EARTH DAY!!

End of soapboxing.






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#973949 04/22/00 07:28 AM
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Quick finger count reveals that Doug, OliP and myself are advocates of the new 'Track & go' method of tracking at a big studio, then completing the project at home.
Jules


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#973950 04/22/00 08:16 AM
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i did no web/email for a week, massive withdrawals.

the future is big and bold but far too long while i grow old. caught on the slipstream of a dying analog world seeing digital unfold. the meek dont inherit the earth, the geeks do. 7 letters off.

what is a sound anyways? they are only representations of what each person thinks they are and that can vary from person to person. a cool filter is just as cool as a vox. below 60hz is a wonderful liquid world. the frequency is so large kenneth, the smiley faces can go away.

some big studios will be for musicians who are too stupid to buy their own equipment and have the money. nobody will lose their job since it will be a gradual change but they will fade away over time replaced by musicians creating their own music. musicians will in turn become brands. the new filter for music will be those who do it and those who talk about doing it. not some A&R guy.

recorded music will become a free product for promotion of what bands should be doing anyways, playing live. after all, people do want to get out sometimes, right bob? besides music is free already if you want to listen to the flavor of the week. why buy the album when the songs is shoved in your face everywhere you turn? do you want to hear it AGAIN?

mixing boards will connect to HDrecorders to effects all automatable and INSTANT RECALL with no patch cords to plug, no solder to melt, no copper to oxidize, no alcohol to swab. nope. just bugs in the software.
technology keeps prices dropping with more powerful products. i can buy an 18g drive for what i bought a 9g drive a year ago for. i can buy a better computer cheaper than a year ago but the one i have still works fine, ill just wait a little while longer. i bought a slew of pluggo effects for $74, a rack of em. their website has new ones for FREE.

so while the old school is sitting on their purist asses, the future is churning away bit by bit. going in millions of directions.

i think the music sounds better today than 30 years ago. you(as in whoever was around) just remember it that way because tv wasnt a big thing 30 years ago and music was larger in the populations life. god forbid an internet. the world was also very naive leading up to a lot of what happened in the 60's and it was the first awareness to delete some old corrupted files from the human database, thats where the magic was, not the analog process. music was the soundtrack. now music is more of a SELF awareness or spiritualiy. the genres have multiplied at a rapid rate. some music is unclassifiable. some spans several genres. more music is produced now in peoples rooms than all studios combined. you might not find it at tower, but its out there. i've seen bands just as great as 'who led rolling beatles'. enough to make a fan jump from the balcony, of course it could of been the drugs, but wasnt it the same thing 30 wars ago?

and if you need a war to write about, go after the drug war. there are already 2.5 million POW's. jails are a booming business (slave labor).

dont count out the young because that is where the future is. they will be the ones to shape it how they see fit because they will be around longer than you.

[This message has been edited by alphajerk (edited 04-22-2000).]


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#973951 04/22/00 08:39 AM
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Great post,
A couple of days ago, as I was heading in my car to the studio, I was hoping that the electricity would go out today.......and maybe stay off for a little while........
ec

#973952 04/22/00 08:43 AM
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By the way, I still think that it's a miracle that the music can come down the wire like it does.
ec

#973953 04/22/00 09:10 AM
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me too, and how it can be contained and released at will.


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#973954 04/22/00 10:18 AM
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Though all this wonderful technical advancement will let us edit, transfer, re-tune, transmorgify, and polish material, IT DOESN'T MATTER- although it takes up a lot of my time lately...

Less expensive gear lets some great music finally get recorded well that didn't have enough mass appeal to be signed and supported thirty years ago.

Of course, for every good CD that sees daylight because it can finally be made, there are a hundred (a thousand?) that totally suck.

I think a lot of new records sound lousy- whether they are done 24bit system or not is irrelevant. A lot of the recording is done by musicians who have no professional level engineering chops, but have a home studio. And now, I fear, a lot of the mixes will be getting done that way as well.

The best players I know devote their lives to their instrument and have little time left for anything else. Their musical obsessions revolve around their art, and is usually tightly focussed.

A few things that will always be of value:
1. A good mic
2. A good pre
3. A good acoustic space

The real rarity and pleasure: great musicians, great writers, great singers.

recorded well.

#973955 04/22/00 12:11 PM
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I think that the future will be interesting. Just look at what has transpired since the ADAT was announced. A computer that is the equivalent of am IBM XT can be made the size of a grain of salt (the military will be using them within 2 years for surveillance and they are going to use them for weather related things like studying tornadoes). I think that big studios will always be around. I think that be big problem in the music biz is not home studios but the demise of live venues for musicians to develop and for audiences to enjoy. My teenage kids have never gone to a dance where a live band was playing!
Buddy

#973956 04/22/00 06:16 PM
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Well Alpha, we sort of agree, at least on SOME points.

I don't EVER count out the young !!

THEY ARE ALWAYS RIGHT, NO MATTER WHAT THEY DO, OR OTHERS BELIEVE!!

We have no choice.

And they already think your an old, out of it, jerk, no matter WHAT you think!!

You already proved this by thinking the "Future" will be Hard Disc recorders. They've been out for a few YEARS, you old fart!!

Even the dreaded MP3 players, (which you know I like so much), use Flash memory, and the Sony ones an even newer method. Pretty soon recordable atoms will be an old storage medium

The "Old School". You mean horrible Engineers like Al Schmidt or Bruce Sweiden?

I HAVE to say, no matter how long you live, if you could be 1/100th as good as any one of them, in your ANY type of Digital/Atomic/Crystal storage World, you would be Fantastically blessed, and should immeditely get on yor knees, and count your blessings!!

I'm not holding my breath from my wheelchair in the nursing home that I'll see you surpass those "hacks", though.

Music sounds BETTER than it did 30 years ago?

Some of the actual recorded sounds may be more dynamic, and of a higher fidelity(?) than back then, but that's DEFINETLY argurable.

Anything sound as good as an old Frank Sinatra record, with Count Basie, or some other large orchestra, done in Mono with three mics, all live, that was recorded before we were all born?

Listen REAL carefully to one of those recordings before you snap to judgment!!

New stuff is different, maybe; better? Ask EVERYONE, not just those with vested interests.

By the way, I'm not really a Frank Sinatra Fan; I've just recently opend up my closed mind to those recordings, and they BLOW ME AWAY!!

Remeber one of Roger's posts, where he said Digital sounded more like the actual Band playing than Analogue did?

I think he meant TODAY.

Listen to those recordings, and you can't tell if you are actually in the large room at Capitol with them, or at home!!

Finally, one of my most biased and most passionate subjects.

You have NOT heard a band as good as The Beatles were. If you think you did, write their names on a piece of paper, seal it in an envelope, and read it in 30 years, and see if you even remember what the subject was you had written about. I'm sure you'll find it was not a daily houseold word, or a World changing event.

Why, we wouldn't even be worrying about Analogue vs. Digital, or have recording consoles, or software, or the tons of companies that now make the products that you brag about being able to use at home, or the studio, not even counting the plethora of musical instruments available, if it wasn't for the effect The Beatles had on the Music Industry!!

It EXPLODED after they came out. The day after they played on the Ed Sullivan show, the World changed. Whether you're too young to remember it or not, it's true.

What happen the day after your favorite new band came out?

Of course, we must give Thomas Edison, and Les Paul, and Elvis their due, but the day after The Beatles were on Ed Sullivan 50 thousand companies started making guitars, amps, keyboards, mixers, effects, speakers, recorders, etc.

You're even smoking your little joints because of their influence on making drugs a more acceptable part of the culture. So when you speak of political prisoners in jail for drugs, think of the fight that The Beatles fought to make pot a less shocking subject in the 1960's.

No one got busted for drugs at Woodstock, 1969.

People knocked over PA towers and set them on fire at Woodstock 1999.

All I know is in the future, when I'm dead, I want the same thing that Rassand Roland Kirk said he wanted, before he died:

"Burn my body, and put the ashes in a nice bag of Pot for some cats to smoke"






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#973957 04/22/00 06:49 PM
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the FUTURE Mix Fix, The FUTURE!

BTW this may be a little 'out there'. We have been, of course referring to the 'Western world' in this thread, as it's what we here all know.

While it's hard to imagine third world countries coming up with anything that impacts on our profession at the moment, with the internet being the great 'leveller' who knows what the future holds? Perhaps a new file format from Pakistan, Iran or Russia might be the way forward in the future!
How chinese people get their audio downline, (most internet is via moblie phone as the cable systems are old) could be interesting to keep an eye on.

Music, it's a world thing! I think too many people regard the internet as 'American" which is big mistake in my view.

In a cab on my way to the airport in New York last fall, the Indian cab driver struck up a conversation with me. He revealed that he & his brother owned a recording studio in Bombay and picked up a Pro Tools manual off the front seat as proof! (He was going to night school to study sound for film & post) We had a good old chat!

Tune in to world beat!

Jules


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#973958 04/22/00 09:36 PM
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Jules:

Okay.

I still don't quite get how Iran's Internet or Recording developments relate to my post.

Or if Indians use Pro Tools (isn't that the Present)?

I was only refering to the past when defending the "old School" engineers like Schmidt and Sweiden, and their great work, as well of that of The Beatles.

MAYBE someday, there will be an impact as big as The Beatles were.

But Alpha was saying he's heard bands as good, already. That's the past, too.

And Hard Discs are the present/past.

Even the Diamond Rio MP3 players are, quickly slipping into the past.

The Real Future?

No moving parts (except on the sub-atomic level). That's about as much as I can predict with any degree of certainty.

Plus, we will die, destroy our planet, even more than we already have, pelple will still hate and kill, and greed and power will still rule.

I hope I'm wrong, but I'd bet I'm not.

Take all that, translate it into the "Music Business", and you have it's Future.

Which, is the exact same as the past, only different.

Your kid's will think your out of touch, just like you're parents did about their's.



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Bob Buontempo.

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#973959 04/22/00 10:20 PM
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Steven Spielberg flatly said during this past year that computer animation is getting so good that it is only-a-matter-of-time before you WILL NOT be able to tell whether the humans on screen are real actors or computer-generated. The moment is approaching. You can imagine for yourself what that means for the future of actors, directors, producers, technicians, sound stages, studio lots ...all of it. Who will be making the Oscar winning films? My guess is ...kids. Kids with garage and bedroom movie studios. Sound familiar?

My take on the future of music? Teac's release to the masses of the 3340 and then the 80-8 in the 70's provided the writing on the wall. We are now midstream in the transition. And I believe that some of the BEST music of the last 30 years is being made this moment. That will continue as the technology gets more into the hands of the masses. Whatever my sentimentalities and memories of the industry as it was, I do believe that we are in a natural technological evolution that is good for the kids, and good for the music.

#973960 04/22/00 10:57 PM
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"some big studios will be for musicians who are too stupid to buy their own equipment......."
Do you actually like music? So, to you, is Bob Dylan too stupid to buy his own equipment? He doesn't WANT to own equipment. He wants to write songs and then go into a recording environment where people on his level do what they do: record music. You are truly fooling yourself, or better put, missing out, if you actually think 'records' sound better today. This simply is not a fact. The other day a mid 1950's clip of Ricky Nelson with James Burton, a Bass player and Drummer, came on T.V. I called for my wife to come into the room and listen for a moment. As we gazed at the screen of my twenty year old mono Sony T.V., I quickly got up and headed for the stereo. "What are you doing?", she asked. Check this out....as I hit play on the Lauren Hill gazzillion track C.D.. It, litteraly, sounded this (thumb & index finger a 1/4" apart) big. The 50's recording sounded like the side of a building. I love the L.Hill record as well as anything Jon Brion produces and MANY others. But time, like it's impact on most things in life, will bear this out. It already has for many of us. As Phil Ramone likes to say, "If you can't get a good sound with a 57 & a Porta-Studio, you're not going to get a good sound with a C12 and 48 track Digital recorder. I have been blessed to call Al Schmitt a dear friend for fourteen years. I have NEVER heard him talk about a single piece of equipment. I have been to dinner (at one sitting) with Al Schmitt, Alan Sides, Bill Schnee and Tommy Lipuma. Two hours and ten minutes.....no gear talk. Equipment to them is like a new suit, or a new sofa in the living room. Nice. No big deal. If it makes getting the music on tape easier and actually sounds better....great. If not....great! As Bob Clearmountain will respond when asked "What mics do you like to use on drums?" "Who's the drummer? What's the song? What day is it??" It's not the pivotal question and or point. It's the music. The MUSIC. If you could 'beam down' Keith Richards into your studio, have him set-up a rig complete with a Tele with no low E string, into a Twin, tweaked, mic'd....this is my sound(says Keith). Now he hands YOU the guitar. Do you actually think it will even remotely sound the same when you play it? Of course not. It's called 'bone tone'. Al has bone tone when he mic's an orchestra, records and mixes all 64 pieces in no time with NO EQ!! And, not to get off on another rant......but defending 'lack' of knowledge, to me, is absurd at best! I truly believe this shared attitude is at the heart of some of our bigger social problems. No one wants to learn anything. You don't have to go to Berklee, as everyone likes to talk about. But wouldn't it feel better if the next time you recorded Omar Hakim and he asked you to punch in and out of the last 16th note of bar eleven you could say, "Sure!!" And by the way....every orchestra date I have ever been on with Al Schmitt, the entire score sits on the console. When Johnny Mandell asks Al to go two bars before letter 'H'.....well, you get it.

Sincerely,Benjy King


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#973961 04/22/00 11:30 PM
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Yea, Benji!!

Of course, YOU know the way I feel. I'm glad another REAL PRO is voicing his opinions on these boards!!

And Bookumdano:

Do you actually think that having a film done entirely in a computer is a GOOD thing?

No humans!!??

Just animation?

I thought it was called "video games", which is about the quality of the movies and music that mostly exist now.

Just because we CAN do something. doesn't mean we SHOULD do it, or it's any better.

Go buy an automatic gun and shoot a bunch of kids, okay?

You CAN, you know!!??

It's done about once a month now.

And, even when YOU went to school, I'll bet you didn't have to go through metal detectors!!

Steven Spielburg can suck my...thumb.

"ET, call home!!"

What a Fucking Genius Piece of Art that was!!

Duke Ellington said it best, and it will ALWAYS be true.

"There are only TWO types of Music. Good Music, and Bad Music".



------------------
Bob.

[This message has been edited by THE MIX FIX (edited 04-22-2000).]

[This message has been edited by THE MIX FIX (edited 04-22-2000).]

[This message has been edited by THE MIX FIX (edited 04-22-2000).]

[This message has been edited by THE MIX FIX (edited 04-22-2000).]

[This message has been edited by THE MIX FIX (edited 04-22-2000).]


Bob Buontempo.

AKA: - THE MIX FIX

Also Hanging at: http://recpit.prosoundweb.com
#973962 04/23/00 12:17 AM
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Well Mix Fix,

You are certainly not alone in your view that there is "good music and bad music." And I'm sure you are not alone in your view that making a movie on a desktop computer (without other people involved) is perhaps not a good thing. You have also given your opinion of the validity of Spielberg's work. Lots of people are comfortable with boxing things into defining terms. That's okay.

I just see art as art. I see an exciting technological future revealing itself to those who create art. For me, all tools are valid and all art is valid because at the most basic level, art touches the soul and connects people. Not all people. Not all the time. But the connection is always made at some level when art is created by one of more humans. After you sort through all the garbage, connection is the reason for all of this. To use the tools of your trade to fulfill an artistic vision..and then to connect with someone with that vision, is to share yourself at the deepest level there is.

#973963 04/23/00 02:19 AM
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i hate to break it to you, but the beatles were spielbergs ET. and they werent the first to bring drugs to the music. ken kesey was doing it long before with the grateful dead when the beatles had short hair. i enjoyed the beatles for a while but then they got boring.

and its americanized because we do it first and better. the english just copied and commercialized it. it was black america who changed the world. elvis, the great white hype. the stones (no offense ed), led zepplin (ask willie dixon), others.

bob dylan is old... not what i was referring to for the FUTURE, he aint in it, hes got one foot in the grave already. musicians of the future will have the skills and know better what sound they want for their guitar, vox, drum, or bass.

frank zappa is a better example. he owned his own studio. so byte my ass benji. i do think music sounds better, so what? just because youre a snobbish asshole doesnt change my opinion. i didnt think this was a thread for arguements, merely to state what we individually saw for the future. none of us can be right and none can be wrong, the future is always unwritten and one day out of reach.


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#973964 04/23/00 06:23 AM
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Hey, I liked 2 Spielberg's films. Duel and Schindler's List. Great cinema.

But I'm not sure how discussing the Beatles necessarily applies to the future.

I believe another form of mass storage that we will be recording to, will be smartcards. Right now they're in digital cameras, and I think they're up to 64 megs on the largest cards. It's only a matter of time before they're 64 gigs and we've got our latest projects on them.

Whether or not music today "SOUNDS better" means so little.

Sounds better HOW???? Today we have lower noise floors and more dynamic range. So I guess music MIGHT sound better today. Then some masstering guy crushes the dymanics out of it and it's gone. Does it sound better? Who knows, I don't.

Sadly I think (actually, I know) being a talented musician is becoming less a requirement as time goes by. I hope that changes, but I suspect it won't. All we need to survive is microwavable food, news sound-bites, and crappy music.

Sign me up.


On 2nd thought, kill me now.

Rich...

#973965 04/23/00 10:13 AM
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how music sounds better today: to my ears it has more range top to bottom in the frequency. 30 years ago it was highly concentrated in the midrange, now its opened up. thats just what my ears tell me and i like it better. so sue me. im not talking about the actual talent of the playing, god knows there hasnt been another hendrix.


alphajerk
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#973966 04/23/00 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by alphajerk:
how music sounds better today: to my ears it has more range top to bottom in the frequency. 30 years ago it was highly concentrated in the midrange, now its opened up. thats just what my ears tell me and i like it better. so sue me. im not talking about the actual talent of the playing, god knows there hasnt been another hendrix.

Read 'Miles' autobiography ('mother fucker'). Not only a great experience, but it has a line re: how the technology [i.e.:the "playback" system...or your stereo) got HIGHER...."better" ...then the playing got higher..."better". Higher. Louder. In other words, they didn't play up in a certain register because nothing played 'back' in that range. Think about it! That flipped me out. Not unlike all of human nature. just a product of our environement.

Benjy


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#973967 04/23/00 07:50 PM
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Today's music sounds better to me because I live in today. I like a lot of old stuff as well, but there are constantly new things coming out (admittedly, less and less on major labels) that really speak to me, move me, whatever. Maybe the playing or engineering technique isn't as good as on some older record somewhere -- the guitarist in my favorite rock band admits he can't solo to save his life, but he's a damn fine songwriter; their next-to-last album was overcompressed on the master; they'll never be big like the Beatles, but really SO WHAT? -- the music is better because it isn't just in my world, but was made in my world. It's that simple. I'm old enough not to be as young as my students and young enough not to be "old" -- and I kind of worry about the day I'll look out at the musical landscape and say "nothing today is as good as back in the day."

--JES

#973968 04/23/00 07:55 PM
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We don't need another Hendrix, we already had one.

Rich...

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