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#957802 - 04/18/01 04:40 AM Windows XP to degrade MP3 Performance
Quin Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/17/00
Posts: 286
Loc: Hampton/McDonough, GA, USA
In an article published in Salon, it states that Microsoft plans to degrade the ripping performance of CD's in its new operating system, in order to promote its new competing format (WMA).

Here's the link:- http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/0104/17.mp3.shtml

This message has been edited by Quin on 04-18-2001 at 01:52 AM

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#957803 - 04/18/01 08:29 AM Re: Windows XP to degrade MP3 Performance
Alndln Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/15/00
Posts: 6451
Loc: ,NY,UNITED STATES
That's only if you use the decoder that comes with XP which next to no one will use anyway,besides they really don't have to do much of anything as WMA's clearly sound better anyway.What artists need to do is is start offering their stuff in better streaming formats so people will start hearing the difference.Still it is rather silly that MS and Real networks and others are planning to make their decoders do this.I guess Real needs this worse than MS as their encoding sounds the shittiest of all them.But as usual,I'll believe this when I see it or hear a statement directly from one of them.
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#957804 - 04/18/01 02:51 PM Re: Windows XP to degrade MP3 Performance
Dylan Offline
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Registered: 02/28/00
Posts: 3671
I could care less if XP doesn't offer good MP3 support, as there are plenty of other MP3 players that will work in XP. Plus, I've been using Windows Media format more often than MP3 recently due to the increased quality, so I'm glad to see Microsoft pushing their format. I'd expect to see this "battle of the codecs" continue for a while. The media wars are just starting to heat up, and we're far away from anyone taking the media crown. The winning format will have to be loss-less or close to it, include security, and be able to stream well. Personally, none of these lossy compression formats excite me one bit. I won't pay for any media that is inferior to CD quality in any way shape or form.

-Dylan

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#957805 - 04/18/01 03:42 PM Re: Windows XP to degrade MP3 Performance
Anderton Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 01/28/00
Posts: 7377
We already talked about this in the "Industry Sez: Let's Make MP3s Sound Bad" thread.

Here's an excerpt.
----------------------------------
Some interesting quotes from a Wall Street Journal article from April 11:

"MP3, a popular format for downloading music from the Web, is encountering competitive pressure as leading technology companies...work to subtly wean consumers away from the technology...[they] are encouraging those who download music to use new proprietary software formats that make the audio sound significantly better but also make it harder to share copyright- protected songs.
Microsoft, for example, plans to severely limit the quality of music that can be recorded as an MP3 file using software built into...Windows XP. But music recorded in...Windows Media Audio will sound clearer and require far less storage space on a computer...Microsoft's new restrictions prevent its built-in software from recording MP3 files at fidelity rates higher than 56 kilobits per second..."

Microsoft limiting recording to 56 kbps is a good enough statement for me to signal corporate intent.
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#957806 - 10/17/01 04:47 PM Re: Windows XP to degrade MP3 Performance
Tzouras Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/18/00
Posts: 220
Loc: Chico, CA 95928, UNITED STATES
I have been using Audiocatalyst to rip CD's on Win98 SE. I tried the same program on Win XP and... IT DOESN'T WORK! (no surprise) I tried to use the ripping of Windows Media Player but that didn't work either...

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NYC
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#957807 - 10/17/01 04:56 PM Re: Windows XP to degrade MP3 Performance
B3Nut Online   content
Platinum Member

Registered: 04/09/01
Posts: 1178
Loc: Mount Horeb, WI USA
Sounds like Microsoft...cripple anything competetive. I don't care if WMA is better, the fact that they're trying to force the issue using their position as the dominant OS provider is crooked. But that's Microsoft's corporate attitude, and one of the reasons why I refuse to buy or own a Windows PC.

YMMV.

TP

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#957808 - 10/17/01 04:57 PM Re: Windows XP to degrade MP3 Performance
Dylan Offline
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Registered: 02/28/00
Posts: 3671
Just about every major sequencer now supports professional MP3 encoding rates (if you can consider the quality professional is another argument), so I don't see it as a big deal if Microsoft doesn't natively support rates above 64k. There will be tons MP3 encoders that will work with XP. That I know for sure. I have AudioCatalyst at home as well as XP, but I haven't yet tried them together.

-Dylan

This message has been edited by Dylan Walters on 10-17-2001 at 01:57 PM

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#957809 - 10/17/01 07:11 PM Re: Windows XP to degrade MP3 Performance
Salyphus Offline
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Registered: 03/03/00
Posts: 6403
Nobody here would be dumb enough to install Windows XP anyway.

Would they???

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#957810 - 10/17/01 07:20 PM Re: Windows XP to degrade MP3 Performance
Dylan Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/28/00
Posts: 3671
Quote:
Originally posted by Sal Orlando:
Nobody here would be dumb enough to install Windows XP anyway.

Would they???


Why is someone dumb if they install XP? If you are using WDM drivers with hardware that supports more than 10 stereo channels, then there are plenty of reasons to use XP.

-Dylan

This message has been edited by Dylan Walters on 10-17-2001 at 04:24 PM

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#957811 - 10/18/01 08:24 PM Re: Windows XP to degrade MP3 Performance
Salyphus Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/03/00
Posts: 6403
Well, I personally think it is dumb to try to
use a machine for serious work which may at
an given point stop working and require an
'authorization' which may for whatever reason
be impossible to obtain in a timely manner.

If you are comfortable with that, I wish you luck

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#957812 - 10/18/01 09:09 PM Re: Windows XP to degrade MP3 Performance
Dylan Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/28/00
Posts: 3671
That's not really how the authorization works, Sal, but your concern is valid. You only need to re-authorize XP if you change your hardware out after a certain number of times. But if you are just working with your system and not changing things, then XP won't just stop working out of the blue. Plus, not that I endorse this, but there are, uh, so called "work-arounds" for not having to deal with activation at all that are well documented on the web. Personally, I have no problem with these "work-arounds" as long as your using a legit copy of XP. But yes, there is rumor about XP expiring and requiring a new version of Windows after so many years (I think it's 4), but with all activations and warnings of expiration, the user is given plenty of time (I think it's 2 weeks) to get in touch with Microsoft to resolve the issue. Trust me, I've used every version of Windows and I wouldn't be using XP and putting up with the activation issue unless it offered substantial performance improvements, which it does.

-Dylan

This message has been edited by Dylan Walters on 10-18-2001 at 06:10 PM

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#957813 - 10/23/01 02:02 AM Re: Windows XP to degrade MP3 Performance
Tzouras Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/18/00
Posts: 220
Loc: Chico, CA 95928, UNITED STATES
I am using a beta version of Windows XP. In Windows Media Player, you are not given a choice of format when ripping from CD. Instead the only option is Windows Media format. The drop-down menu is "greyed out" but there is a button next it called "Mp3 information". Clicking on it takes you to:

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/windowsxp/experience.asp

which tells you about Mp3 support in Windows XP (an official Microsoft site). According to this site, in order to rip CD's to mp3, you have to buy third party encoders (A link is given: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/windowsxp/buypacks.asp) These third party encoders work within Windows Media Player and allow you to rip up to 360 kbps.

So Microsoft will not limit you to 56kbps mp3's. Instead they wont let you rip to mp3's at all unless you buy third party software.

Of course you can always find other ways to rip mp3's outside of Windows Media Player. Audiocatalyst 2.1 won't work though, according to Xing, the company that makes it.

Anybody know of anything similar to Audiocatalyst that WILL work on XP?

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Yiannis Georghiades
NYC
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Yiannis Georghiades
Chico, CA

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#957814 - 10/23/01 02:58 AM Re: Windows XP to degrade MP3 Performance
Tzouras Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/18/00
Posts: 220
Loc: Chico, CA 95928, UNITED STATES
Check

http://www.futureofmusic.com/

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Yiannis Georghiades
NYC
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Yiannis Georghiades
Chico, CA

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#957815 - 10/23/01 04:31 AM Re: Windows XP to degrade MP3 Performance
Philip O'Keefe Offline
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Registered: 12/17/00
Posts: 17674
Loc: Riverside,CA,UNITED STATES
So Dylan, if I'm understanding what you said correctly, Microsoft MAY (or DID?) put a "time limit" on Win XP, and after 4 years it just "dies?"

I don't really like the "authorization" issue, but I can put up with it. OTOH, if this "time limit" is for real, I may just have to reconsider my XP upgrade plans.

Have any links that I can check to read up on this?

Thx,


Phil O'Keefe
Sound Sanctuary Recording
Riverside CA
http://members.aol.com/ssanctuary/index.html
pokeefe777@msn.com
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#957816 - 10/23/01 07:05 AM Re: Windows XP to degrade MP3 Performance
gtrmac Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 12/06/00
Posts: 1763
Loc: Naniwa-ku,,JAPAN
The Authorization issue is the biggest turn off for me. As far as the time limit of 4 years (maybe?) I can'y imagine using an OS for more than four yaers anyway. At least I haven't used one for more than two years so far. Up until now the newer OS's have all offered better performance and seem to have been worth upgrading to. I can't seem to get emotional over the demise of the MP3 format either. If WMA sounds better than it deserves to replace MP3. What would really scare me was if Microsoft tried to replace MP3 with a worse sounding CODEC.

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G-Clef Acoustics Ltd.
Osaka, Japan
My Music: http://www.javamusic.com/freedomland
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#957817 - 10/23/01 07:36 AM Re: Windows XP to degrade MP3 Performance
Tzouras Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/18/00
Posts: 220
Loc: Chico, CA 95928, UNITED STATES
As far as the 4-year limit is concerned, think of it this way: If Microsoft made operating systems that lasted for a long time without upgrading them, they wouldn't make so much money. It's good marketing business for them to come up with a new version of Windows every couple of years.

I am sure they are allready working on the next version, the one after XP.

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NYC
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Chico, CA

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#957818 - 10/23/01 12:35 PM Re: Windows XP to degrade MP3 Performance
- Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 1999
Quote:
Originally posted by pokeefe777@msn.com:
So Dylan, if I'm understanding what you said correctly, Microsoft MAY (or DID?) put a "time limit" on Win XP, and after 4 years it just "dies?"

I don't really like the "authorization" issue, but I can put up with it. OTOH, if this "time limit" is for real, I may just have to reconsider my XP upgrade plans.

Have any links that I can check to read up on this?


I haven't heard those kinds of rumors about XP... I don't think it'll just "die" after 4 years.

HOWEVER... One day -- maybe five or six years from now -- Microsoft will stop supporting XP. (As an example... MS is going to stop Win95 support in the next few months, I believe.) This isn't unique to MS; All software companies stop supporting their products after a while.

However, in the case of XP, stopping support will probably mean that they will stop supporting the authorization scheme. I mean, why should they pay their employees to answer the phone or keep their XP authorization servers on for a product that they're no longer promoting? If I'm wrong about this, then I'd like to see MS put out a press release saying that they'll support XP authorization forever... I doubt they will, though.

What that means is, if you have to reinstall (a vital feature of *any* version of Windows), you're out of luck... You'll be forced to upgrade. I'm reading between the lines here, but XP sounds like it's the beginning of software rental. If you're definitely going to upgrade in the next six years (no matter if you feel the OS MS is offering consumers is suited to your needs), this isn't an issue. However, if you've found the perfect stable hardware/software/OS combination and have no desire to upgrade... You're asking for headaches, I think.

I'm still using Win95B... It's six years old yet it's perfect for my needs. I'll keep using it until it's no longer the best solution for me. I somehow doubt XP users will find their OS as useful six years from now (should MS stop authorizing XP), since they may not be able to reinstall if their system goes awry.



This message has been edited by popmusic on 10-23-2001 at 09:43 AM

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#957819 - 10/23/01 12:38 PM Re: Windows XP to degrade MP3 Performance
Anderton Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 01/28/00
Posts: 7377
Check out the news item on the home page re: DVD and MP3 support for XP.
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#957820 - 10/23/01 12:46 PM Re: Windows XP to degrade MP3 Performance
- Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 1999
Quote:
Originally posted by Tzouras:
I am sure they are allready working on the next version, the one after XP.


They are, and they're already promoting it to software programmers, even though you can't buy it for a while -- it's called .NET ("dot - net").

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#957821 - 10/26/01 09:03 PM Re: Windows XP to degrade MP3 Performance
Dylan Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/28/00
Posts: 3671
Quote:
Originally posted by pokeefe777@msn.com:
So Dylan, if I'm understanding what you said correctly, Microsoft MAY (or DID?) put a "time limit" on Win XP, and after 4 years it just "dies?" Have any links that I can check to read up on this?


Yeah, check out these links for more info:

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/lifecycleconsumer.asp
http://support.microsoft.com/directory/discontinue.asp

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#957822 - 10/26/01 11:13 PM Re: Windows XP to degrade MP3 Performance
timobrien Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 279
Loc: Southeast Florida
When Microsoft stops supporting any OS that has an authorization scheme you can BET YOUR LIFE that you won't be able to get any reactivation codes from then on.

They also say that reactivation is free. Do you REALLY think that when they have to pay for the new call centers next year to handle the thousands and thousands of reactivation calls that it will continue to be free???? Get out your credit card for "administrative charges" or you won't get back to work. Sounds like extortion to me....

I'd like to sell some Florida swamp land to anyone that believes it. Their actions over the past years proves that they cannot be trusted with a product that can be deactivated.

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#957823 - 10/28/01 11:43 PM Re: Windows XP to degrade MP3 Performance
Paul Frindle Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/20/00
Posts: 362
Loc: U.K
Quote:
Originally posted by popmusic:


They are, and they're already promoting it to software programmers, even though you can't buy it for a while -- it's called .NET ("dot - net").


I am in a similar position using Win95. The thing that prevents me upgrading beyond that is that Windows is no longer an operating system at all. It is a collection of applications bloated by MS S/W designed to upstage or straight replace 3rd party S/W with MS apps that you can't avoid loading. IMO Win98 was a terrible step in the wrong direction morally. The purpose as far as I can see is to corner every possible avenue of development in the home PC arena and justify the use of ever more powerful H/W. IMHO Win98 is less efficient than Win95 - and so on....
In the absence of any further real progress in this vein, the only possible next step to cajole more capital from an increasingly sceptical market, is to force the OS to expire altogether.
Marketing has become increasingly aggressive with more and more control, planned obsolescence and technically unsupportable lies. We all swallow cynical marketing ethics that would be considered criminal a few decades ago. IMHO, if left unchecked, the next step in this train of events is to effectively turn all markets into a rental model, where you pay to continue using everything from your washing machine, music, PC, S/W, Car etc. This new era will be sold to us on the basis of a new exciting and terribly cool "service industry" model where "we can always have access to the latest XXX or whatever". In reality our ability to own anything at all will be removed and the directed market, that all large companies would love to restrict us to, will be complete. They will charge whatever maximum price we will pay for the 'service' and if you want it you will have no choice but to continue to pay for what you already have! Of course we are kind of doing this already with a marketing driven society. And the new model may look like a cleaner solution than the existing throw away society which is already driven by planned H/W obsolescence, in that they can generate profit from providing very little, and thus there is less waste - just the thing when you run out of new and exciting things to provide. But the big problem is that in the absence of any real choice or competition, THEY will decide not only what you have entirely, but more crucially - what you can do with it. The problem with existing markets opened up by new technology, is that they don't have complete control - yet! They already have majority control of almost every other aspect of our lives and cultures - info technology is a thorn in their sides as it has proven remarkably resilient against their battles to bring it into line. They not only want to control what you get hold of - they want to control what you can do with it too - like they have largely done with everything else. They are fighting very hard to get this level of control with increasing ingenuity. But at the moment at least, basic rights of freedom are intervening and preventing information we generate ourselves from being restricted for profit - but for how long can we hold out - will they eventually win? I damn well hope not!

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#957824 - 10/29/01 12:19 AM Re: Windows XP to degrade MP3 Performance
- Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 1999
Quote:
Originally posted by Paul Frindle:

This new era will be sold to us on the basis of a new exciting and terribly cool "service industry" model where "we can always have access to the latest XXX or whatever".


Or, as Laurie Anderson said so brilliantly:

Quote:
...as technologies escalate and things get faster, a lot of people get caught up in what amounts to a sorta personal arms race, building up arsenals of equipment. And, for what? And so you have to keep getting more and more stuff, endlessly. More bandwidth, more storage, more memory, more speed. And you will never, ever have enough. It's like you're in a race against speed itself.


Y'know, it's all about making music or programming or creating a web page or whatever you do with your computer... If you're always upgrading or tinkering with the tools instead of getting work done, it's kinda like losing the forest for the trees. Naturally, there comes a time when you need to upgrade or get new tools... But IMO it's not as often as the software/hardware companies would have you believe.

Just my 0.000002...

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