surfmonkey Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 I spent about seven and half hours working on a piece today (in one sitting). It wasn't until afterward that I realized that was more than a few hours too many. Everything I had written past the four-five hour mark, wasn't very good, and was actually making my piece worse. But I was so caught up in what I was doing that I didn't realize it until the end. Anyway, I think I'm going to set time limits for myself on any one project per day. How about everyone else? Do you guys ever find yourself in this situation? How long do you work on an intensive project? I have no homepage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gtoledo3 Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 FOREVER :freak: Want mix/tracking feedback? Checkout "The Fade"- www.grand-designs.cc/mmforum/index.php The soon-to-be home of the "12 Bar-Blues Project" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHAN Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by surfmonkey: [b] How long do you work on an intensive project?[/b][/quote]I'll let you know if anything ever actually feels finished. Otherwise they're all just works in progress. So Many Drummers. So Little Time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alndln Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by KHAN: [b]they're all just works in progress.[/b][/quote]How true.Before DAW's I'd write stuff from start to finish on my guitar with the whole bands parts in my head,now I have a zillion half finished things that I get tired of and never finish.The seed alway's seems more potent than the dressing. "A Robot Playing Trumpet Blows" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfmonkey Posted March 15, 2003 Author Share Posted March 15, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by KHAN: [QBI'll let you know if anything ever actually feels finished. Otherwise they're all just works in progress.[/QB][/quote]I meant in one sitting, not over all. Yeah, nothing ever seems so perfect that it can't be tweaked. I have no homepage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wow Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 I never feel as if a project is finished. I dropped one off the other day, and when I handed the guy the package, all of these things started going through my head: the EQ was off, that last guitar was just not right, and on and on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 Sometimes it's nice to just pick up an acoustic and write something, finish it, and leave it at that. As soon as I fire up a DAW and start thinking about arrangements, like Khan said, it's forever a work in progress. I have stuff I wrote years ago that I'm still waiting to record, a bad case of GAS ... if I had this piece of gear and that plug, etc. then I could finish it. My current excuse is waiting on Nuendo 2 and the MIO plugs :) "That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." - Banky Edwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
not Cereal Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 a project is finished when i can no longer work on it. this usually is because i get a sick feeling about it when i play it. i just dont want to hear it anymore. i hate the song. cant stand it. everyone else seems to think its "baddass" but i cant have any more of it. sometimes this takes two years. my last "big project" took two years; i havent been able to do much since then- it just took too much out of me. ive had a bunch of little projects since then, but i cant devote my entire life to a 10 minute tune right now. so, IOW i work on a tune until it is beat-to-death. then it is complete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. Ratte Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 I had a dream about this once. I'd been working like crazy on one tune for like 2 months or something. By the end I was sleeping in a cot in the crappy windowless studio and life was sucking pretty bad. Anyways, on my little army cot I had a dream. Rick Rubin (!) appeared and said, "Ya know, man, sometimes a tune is DONE." And it was! I mixed it the next day. Thanks, Mr. Rubin. (who I've never met) G. Ratte' http://www.cultdeadcow.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip OKeefe Posted March 16, 2003 Share Posted March 16, 2003 This is, IMO, a tough but important issue. I agree that IN ONE SITTING, there will always come a point of diminishing returns. That point may occur after an hour or after 16 hours, and I've found that that's true for not only writing, but performing, rehersals, mixing, tracking - you name it. As far as songwriting, when you get to the point (in one sitting) where things are going downhill, then walk away from it for a while. A day, an hour - whatever it takes. I like trying to write with no restrictions. I try to set my "producer hat" aside and not be too critical with things - just let the ideas flow without judging them too harshly. If I start to critique things too quickly and too early in the process, then it tends to stifle the creative spark. Once something is pretty much "done", then it's time to set it aside for a while and then revisit it a few days later. That's the time to be a bit more critical, and maybe consider the all too often overlooked concept of "rewriting" things. Sure, it may indeed be just great "as is", but oftentimes I find that the unfettered creative process can generate good ideas as well as more than a few clunkers, and going back to something a few days later with a bit more of a critical and impartial eye towards its actual quality will allow me to create without boundaries but then edit and refine as needed. But there's another aspect that can arise - the "never finished" syndrome. Some people can't seem to ever "let go" of something - a song in progress, a mix, whatever. There's a fine line between being "incomplete" and being "overdone", and part of the art in production is knowing when to say "that's it - it's done. It is what it is, and we're going to move forward to something else now". It's really difficult for a lot of people to make that call, and, IMO, that's one of the most important things an outside producer has to bring to the table - not only as far as arrangements, tracking, "fixes" and remixes, but also as far as the songs themselves. Of course, I could be completely full of crap and not have any idea of what I'm talking about - I'll leave that for all of you to decide ;) but I do feel that having someone that you trust musically to bounce things off of is very valuable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted March 16, 2003 Share Posted March 16, 2003 That's a cool outlook, Phil. Unfortunately, I don't have anyone I really trust to call in to co-produce my projects. This has been my dilemna for many years. :cry: As far as the originaly question, I like to work on things in rotation. I love when I'm writing one song, tracking another, and yet mixing another. That keeps things pretty fresh. I hope this helps, Lincoln Ross Dead Black Jedis "All conditioned things are impermanent. Work out your own salvation with diligence." The Buddha's Last Words R.I.P. RobT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip OKeefe Posted March 16, 2003 Share Posted March 16, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Jedi: [b]That's a cool outlook, Phil. Unfortunately, I don't have anyone I really trust to call in to co-produce my projects. This has been my dilemna for many years. :cry: [/b] How about taking advantage of us? In a good way of course! ;) You could post your work in progress online, put a link / post up on the "Is your music any good? Find out here" thread and get input that way... just a thought... [b]As far as the originaly question, I like to work on things in rotation. I love when I'm writing one song, tracking another, and yet mixing another. That keeps things pretty fresh.[/b] EXCELLENT point Lincoln! One nice thing (for me personally anyway) is that I usually have three, four or even more projects all going at once, and all in different stages of progress... so I might be working on tracking drums and rhythm tracks today and tomorrow, while doing a mix the next day and vocal tracking the day after that. It does tend to keep things from getting stale. MY problem is that I am always so busy working on everyone else's stuff that it seems I never seem to have enough time to work on my own stuff, or stuff for my wife, etc. etc. :( [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schmee Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 "The answer is never the answer. What's really interesting is the mystery. If you seek the mystery instead of the answer, you'll always be seeking. I've never seen anybody really find the answer-- they think they have, so they stop thinking. But the job is to seek mystery, evoke mystery, plant a garden in which strange plants grow and mysteries bloom. The need for mystery is greater than the need for an answer." -- Ken Kesey --_ ______________ _ "Self-awareness is the key to your upheaval from mediocrity." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Schmee "The answer is never the answer. What's really interesting is the mystery. If you seek the mystery instead of the answer, you'll always be seeking. I've never seen anybody really find the answer-- they think they have, so they stop thinking. But the job is to seek mystery, evoke mystery, plant a garden in which strange plants grow and mysteries bloom. The need for mystery is greater than the need for an answer." -- Ken Kesey [/quote]The Mystery indeed. The Artist's realm is the mystery. Great point. :thu: BTW, who's Ken Kesey. Phil, Thanks bro for the support. I posted some stuff on the songwriting forum and got some great feedback. I'll post some stuff in the "The HUGE THREAD" pretty soon. "All conditioned things are impermanent. Work out your own salvation with diligence." The Buddha's Last Words R.I.P. RobT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botch. Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 I've read that painters have a similar dilemma. They can modify, change, continue on a piece sometimes forever, it only becomes "finished" when the client pays for it and takes it away. Botch "Eccentric language often is symptomatic of peculiar thinking" - George Will www.puddlestone.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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