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I have a choice to make in the next 3 months. I am a Canadian citizen, US resident (eligible for US citizenship in 2 years). I have been living and working in SF now for 8 years. I have the opportunity to move back to Vancouver. It would mean being much closer to both mine and my wife's families (with 2 boys under 5 this means a lot), but it would also mean a substantial drop in salary (and future earning potential). Roughly speaking, between my wife and I we would be leaving close to $30K on the table to make this move. Career prospects for my wife are pretty good either way - she is an academic and has been offered a tenured position at University of BC. For me it is not so good. The high tech sector in Vancouver is small and struggling right now. I can find work, but it would be at a substantial pay cut. We both have very good jobs in SF. Normally, this would be a no brainer - we can always visit family in Vancouver, and we have done pretty well without parental help (or interference) in raising our boys so far. However the political and economic outlook in California is starting to concern me and make moving to Canada more and more attractive. What are your outlooks for the future? Is the pending (sensless and unjustified) war in Iraq likely to make the US a greater target for more (senseless and unjustified) terrorism? Will the war sink the US economy for the next 3-4 years? Will the erosion of rights under the Bush/Ashcroft/Rumsfield administration continue after hostilities are over? Both the state of California and the federal government is deeply in debt and running deficit budgets- how will this weigh on economic recovery. Do the benefits of a safer, more tolerent society with excellent public schools, a more progressive political climate, a cosmopolitan multi-cultural city, clean air, access to both the sea and mountains and proximity to extended family out weight the benefits of staying in the Bay Area at any cost? Vancouver has a lot going for it. The OECD just identified Vancouver as the 2nd most livable city in the world (behind Geneva). San Francisco (where I now live) was rated 20th (tops in the US). Can I relearn to spell colour, neighbour and centre the Canadian way? What would you do?
Our country is not the only thing to which we owe our allegiance. It is also owed to justice and to humanity. Patriotism consists not in waving the flag, but in striving that our country shall be righteous as well as strong: James Bryce
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Is that 30K deficit American or Canadian? I can't make your decision for you, but I've spent several years in the Bay, and am intrigued by Vancouver. [b]Is the pending (sensless and unjustified) war in Iraq likely to make the US a greater target for more (senseless and unjustified) terrorism?[/b] yep, but being that Vancouver is an accessible urban area it is still a potential target, albeit less than the Bay Area. [b]Will the war sink the US economy for the next 3-4 years?[/b] I think there will be negative economic ramifications of this administration, and the war is an ill conceived stopgap measure to slow it unfortunately. [b]Will the erosion of rights under the Bush/Ashcroft/Rumsfield administration continue after hostilities are over? [/b] Yes, the current erosion of rights will continue well beyond the current Iraq conflict. Again I think all of the hostility, terrorism and drum beating are based in a collapsing global economy, and the monied elite are preparing for class warfare. Systematic removal of your rights to dissent, free speech, legal recourse, due process from the govt., etc... are not just aimed at "evildoers" but perhaps an angry population base that is no longer privy to the "spoils" of affluence like food, shelter, education, and health care. (sorry...end rant :D ) [b]Both the state of California and the federal government is deeply in debt and running deficit budgets- how will this weigh on economic recovery.[/b] I don't need to tell you this, you already know you will foot the bill with higher taxes while big corporations run by the pResident's buddies will not pay taxes and continue to take money out of the country to offshore tax havens, which will miraculously still not be made illegal. Of course recognize that Canada's tax burden is not to be taken lightly. I do think you get a better return for your tax two dollar piece! [b]Do the benefits of a safer, more tolerent society with excellent public schools, a more progressive political climate, a cosmopolitan multi-cultural city, clean air, access to both the sea and mountains and proximity to extended family out weight the benefits of staying in the Bay Area at any cost?[/b] That of course is up to you - I miss the Bay area so very much sometimes. It is easily one of the most vibrant and culturally aware parts of the US. Business opportunity drew me away (it is unfortunately ridiculously expensive to exist there comfortably)and now I have a family as well. I personally feel family concerns should be your first consideration. (you certainly don't give any allusion this isn't the case, BTW) [b]Vancouver has a lot going for it. The OECD just identified Vancouver as the 2nd most livable city in the world (behind Geneva). San Francisco (where I now live) was rated 20th (tops in the US).[/b] You are answering your own question! I've been to Vancouver a few times, and have only positive things to say...Of course, I was on vacation for the most part. [b]Can I relearn to spell colour, neighbour and centre the Canadian way?[/b] Eh? Best of Luck, Dogfur
Woof!
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I'll only address two points: I don't think terrorism is going to increase on the account of Saddam. His grip on his people is based on fear, not on religion, and I doubt he could get many folks committing suicide for him the way al Queda does (remember the mass surrenders of the first Gulf War). Whether al Quada increases its attacks because of what we do in Iraq, I don't know but I doubt it, they had their reasons before we started turning up the pressure on Saddam. And I agree with a previous poster, more money is nice but happiness doesn't depend on it. I switched jobs three years ago and took a pretty good pay cut, but it was the smartest thing I've done in years. SFO, you work in the computer field somehow, don't you? Have you approached your current employer about continuing to work for them via telecommute? More and more folks do it that way. Keep us posted, and good luck! :thu:

Botch

"Eccentric language often is symptomatic of peculiar thinking" - George Will

www.puddlestone.net

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We own a home in Pacifica. Mavericks is cool to watch (I'm no way near good enough to attempt surfing waves like that) Pacifica beach is more my speed. Pacifica has it's own charm. Yeah, I had to get used to NRA and "Bush/Cheney" bumper stickers plastered all over the 4x4s, and the knowledge that my neighbors have an arsenal sufficient to keep the entire ATF, FBI and DEA at bay for weeks, but there is a certain charm to Pacifica. It is a small beach community. I live just outside the fog belt, less than a mile from Pacifica beach. My neighbors are actually great ('cept the fascination with heavy artillary). It's not as chi chi as Half Moon Bay, but we really like Pacifica. Only downside is the 30 min commute to the Financial district. Vancouver has its charms too. I lived there for 16 years. Stanley Park, Kits beach, the UBC endowment lands, Robson Street (think of Filmore or Chestnut in SF with fewer bums), night skiing at Grouse Mnt and Cypress bowl (visible and just 30 minutes from downtown), excellent Chinese and Indian food, Whistler (90 minutes). Additionally, Vancouver/Whistler is on the short list of 3 cities (Salzburg and Pyongyang S. Korea) for the 2010 winter olympics. In order to avoid a long commute, we would have to live on the West side of Vancouver which is nice, but fairly expensive by Canadian standards. Oh yeah - it also rains sometimes in Vancouver. You are right, money isn't everything, but one of the frequent causes of marriage breakup and family disfunction is financial pressure. Giving up so much salary would definitely require an adjustment in expectations. Most of our friends with children have extended families in the Bay Area and grandparents often play a significant role with children. We have never had any help from our parents. We have also never had to deal with interference or obligations. I'm also starting to get plugged into a small network of people with similar musical directions in the Bay Area. I'd hate to give that up, but I do know some people in Vancouver. I know .... I'm not expecting answers, just thinking out loud.
Our country is not the only thing to which we owe our allegiance. It is also owed to justice and to humanity. Patriotism consists not in waving the flag, but in striving that our country shall be righteous as well as strong: James Bryce
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In case anyone thought I meant anything different...Vancouver is just a really wonderful city...it's the people that I like...the fact that they aren't afraid of each other. Fear is spreading like wildfire in the U.S. and the media just keeps making it worse. So without even considering Homeland Security and all the crap that goes along with that...just knowing that my son would be less-likely to be murdered for doing nothing by some warped kid who grew up on network television would be enough for me to give up and leave the states. But the choice isn't as easy for me...I'm a U.S. citizen, my wife recently became one (man if I'd known how bad things were gonna get I would never have let that happen). I'm a homeowner...my whole family is here...etc. etc. So I'll just have to [b]do what I can[/b] to make this a better country, if things go far enough downhill, I may be a refugee in the future...I'm not ready to bail, yet.
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