not coaster MODERATOR Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 [img]http://messe.harmony-central.com/Musikmesse03/Content/TC_Electronic/PR/PowerCore-FireWire.jpg[/img] I'm going to cancel my TC Powercore and hold out till May for this. Faster bus speeds, more ram, and the best news - I can upgrade my Mac to 10.2. The DP drivers are now downloadable. And I can run this bad boy on an iBook! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brittanylips Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 My question about it is the "L" word -- L A T E N C Y. What kind of latency does it introduce when you shuttle audio over Firewire for processing in this thing, and then back to the computer? I can't help thinking that it would be more than via a PCI card, but who knows? For me, this will be the issue. If latency is somehow not an issue, and given what I believe is TC Powercore's commitment to support Audio Units, this could be the shit. -Peace, Love, and Brittanylips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
not coaster MODERATOR Posted March 6, 2003 Author Share Posted March 6, 2003 Upon futher research the OSX drivers are for VST not DP3. Makes one wish they owned Logic sometimes. Motu's losing market share stuck in OS9x :mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beagle1 Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Cereal - I think the OS X version of Powercore supports Apple's Audio Unit plugin spec. And I would think MOTU will support Audio Units in DP for X when it arrives. I agree that this thing looks very very cool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salyphus Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Yes, MOTU have said officially that they will support AU in addition to MAS. This thing does look awesome! I wonder if UAD have anything to answer with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brittanylips Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Sal O'lando: [b]Yes, MOTU have said officially that they will support AU in addition to MAS. This thing does look awesome! I wonder if UAD have anything to answer with?[/b][/quote]MOTU have....hm...... So accross the universe means accros the pond, eh? PL&B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alndln Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Brittanylips: [b]My question about it is the "L" word -- L A T E N C Y. What kind of latency does it introduce when you shuttle audio over Firewire for processing in this thing, and then back to the computer? I can't help thinking that it would be more than via a PCI card.[/b][/quote]Exactly.I want answers!!!!! :D "A Robot Playing Trumpet Blows" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotown Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 I have made a few calls today, and from what I hear it is basically the same card, just in a firewire box. I am not sure if that is a deal breaker for me. From what I understand, the new software has a latency comensation plugin that uses very little TC processor, so that would address the latency issue. I am going to wait and see how low the price on the card will go. That will be my decision maker. Jotown:) "It's all good: Except when it's Great" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Don't forget the MIO + DSP if you need some good converters and pres too. The release of the software to "turn on" the DSP should be any day now :) I hope it's all I want it to be :cool: "That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." - Banky Edwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big K Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 I am interested to see the DSP thingy in the unit mentioned, .. is it prosessing DSP, or like my multi face, that is an on board mixing matrix? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by big K: [b]I am interested to see the DSP thingy in the unit mentioned, .. is it prosessing DSP, or like my multi face, that is an on board mixing matrix?[/b][/quote]It's processing. Metric Halo are "close" (in software terms I think close can mean anything from days to months away ;) ) to releasing a new console with basic recording ability and also the "MIOstrip" which is a DSP reworking of their Channelstrip. A Haloverb is also in the pipeline :thu: I think these plugs will run from within the MIO console, not as plugs that show up in a DAW but at least it'll give the user some decent compression, EQ and reverb for headphone mixes and such, when doing location recording, etc. "That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." - Banky Edwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brittanylips Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Rog: [b]Don't forget the MIO + DSP if you need some good converters and pres too. The release of the software to "turn on" the DSP should be any day now :) I hope it's all I want it to be :cool: [/b][/quote]Unfortunately, 1) the DSP in the Mobile I/O will be limited to their own proprietary plugins. The TC Powercore is and will be open to many choices, particularly since it will accept Audio Units under OS X. 2) Metric halo has yet to deliver on its promise of any DSP applications for the Mobile I/O. Even if and when they finally come out with a few, only time will tell how good they are. Plus, even if they are good, it may take time after they are released to get them up to speed. At this point, they are selling DSP chips that have nothing to do. I was interested in getting a Mobile I/O until I recently saw the press release for Yamaha's new 01X. It is similar to a Mobile I/O but with much more usefulness (e.g. a DAW control surface as well as audio and midi I/O, more powerful DSP that comes with mature applications, rather than vaporware, better mic pres, digital mixer, etc.), and is not made by a bunch of "great guys" in a basement somewhere. I know the Mobile I/O has an almost cultish following of die-hard users, and I was considering one. However, this Yamaha thing seems to leapfrog it in many ways, even though Yamaha may not be as "cool." -PL & B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salyphus Posted March 8, 2003 Share Posted March 8, 2003 I'm still wondering if UAD will release a firewire version. Most opinions I have seen seem to favor the sound of the UAD plugs over the Powercore (I haven't tested them myself). It is cool that the Powercore is an open platform though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotown Posted March 8, 2003 Share Posted March 8, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Sal O'lando: [b]I'm still wondering if UAD will release a firewire version. Most opinions I have seen seem to favor the sound of the UAD plugs over the Powercore. [/b][/quote]I wouldn't go that far. I have the UAD box and it is cool. I am getting the TC Powercore because it is cool also. They have different strengths and weaknesses, and it is my opinion that they complement eachother quite well. Jotown:) "It's all good: Except when it's Great" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salyphus Posted March 8, 2003 Share Posted March 8, 2003 I haven't heard either of them myself. I'd be interested in knowing how you find them to compare if you get the Powercore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotown Posted March 19, 2003 Share Posted March 19, 2003 Does anyone out there have any pricing information on this unit yet? I have been unable to find any as of yet. Thanks in advance. Jotown:) "It's all good: Except when it's Great" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim P. Dyndale Posted March 19, 2003 Share Posted March 19, 2003 A friend of mine is a music dealer. He said that it's delayed until August or something. It will cost about 20% more than the PCI card... -Joachim Dyndale -------------------- Einstein: The difference between genius and stupidity is: Genius has limits My Blog... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alndln Posted March 19, 2003 Share Posted March 19, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Lucky Charms O' Cereal: [b]Upon futher research the OSX drivers are for VST not DP3. Makes one wish they owned Logic sometimes. Motu's losing market share stuck in OS9x :mad: [/b][/quote]They do say it will support Audio Units and not just VST.If the new DP(DP4) supports Audio Units you should be ok.Even if it didn't,Audio Ease's VST-Mas adapter wouldn't be a bad investment anyway. "A Robot Playing Trumpet Blows" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted March 19, 2003 Share Posted March 19, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by Brittanylips: [b] [quote]Originally posted by Rog: [b]Don't forget the MIO + DSP if you need some good converters and pres too. The release of the software to "turn on" the DSP should be any day now :) I hope it's all I want it to be :cool: [/b][/quote]Unfortunately, 1) the DSP in the Mobile I/O will be limited to their own proprietary plugins. The TC Powercore is and will be open to many choices, particularly since it will accept Audio Units under OS X. 2) Metric halo has yet to deliver on its promise of any DSP applications for the Mobile I/O. Even if and when they finally come out with a few, only time will tell how good they are. Plus, even if they are good, it may take time after they are released to get them up to speed. At this point, they are selling DSP chips that have nothing to do. I was interested in getting a Mobile I/O until I recently saw the press release for Yamaha's new 01X. It is similar to a Mobile I/O but with much more usefulness (e.g. a DAW control surface as well as audio and midi I/O, more powerful DSP that comes with mature applications, rather than vaporware, better mic pres, digital mixer, etc.), and is not made by a bunch of "great guys" in a basement somewhere. I know the Mobile I/O has an almost cultish following of die-hard users, and I was considering one. However, this Yamaha thing seems to leapfrog it in many ways, even though Yamaha may not be as "cool." -PL & B[/b][/quote]I hear what you're saying. I'm getting pissed off waiting for the MIO upgrade but I think it'll be worth the wait. I see the DSP as an extra feature ... the icing on the cake. At the moment I just have great pres and converters in one bus-powered box ... bummer ;) :D "That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." - Banky Edwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mats Nermark Posted March 19, 2003 Share Posted March 19, 2003 Hi, I saw this at the Frankfurt Musik Messe and it does look cool and promising. The thing to keep in mind is that even though the PowerCore supports VST you can not automatically let it run any VST plug-ins to offload the native processor in your computer. You have to use specially written plug-ins. This has something to do with floating point vs. fixed point. The PowerCore has one and you computer the other. I wonder if this is also the case with Audio Units? If so it doesn't help much if you want to run your ordinary AU plug-ins. At least not if I understand this correctly. Cheers, Mats N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alndln Posted March 19, 2003 Share Posted March 19, 2003 I was just over at the UAD forum and someone was posting about premature clipping with the Powercore,and 2 Powercore users replied that was because the Powercore's plugs are fixed point,not floating point.If that's true that could be a deal breaker for me.Here's a link to the thread [url=http://www.chrismilne.com/uadforums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2435]www.chrismilne.com/uadforums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2435[/url] "A Robot Playing Trumpet Blows" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim P. Dyndale Posted March 19, 2003 Share Posted March 19, 2003 The powercore is a fantastic card, with great sounding plug-ins. But if you want a powerfull DSP to run normal VST-plugs that you already own, I suggest you check out [url=http://www.plugzilla.com/]Plugzilla[/url] from Manifold Labs. Looks very promising! -Joachim Dyndale -------------------- Einstein: The difference between genius and stupidity is: Genius has limits My Blog... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beagle1 Posted March 19, 2003 Share Posted March 19, 2003 Yes, the Powercore's plugs are all fixed point because the Powercore itself uses Motorola DSP's similar to those used by ProTools. As I understand it, the Powercore actually converts floating point to fixed point, processes the audio using the DSP's, then converts back to floating point. Sounds like a convoluted process, but it does not seem to have any adverse effects on audio quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderton Posted March 19, 2003 Share Posted March 19, 2003 <> IT is not the same card, just the same concept. The FireWire box has four Motorola DSP chips and a PowerPC processor, and has almost twice the power of the PCI version. The PCI version will continue to be manufactured, by the way. I believe the price for the FireWire box is around $1500. Craig Anderton Educational site: http://www.craiganderton.org Music: http://www.youtube.com/thecraiganderton Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/craig_anderton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderton Posted March 19, 2003 Share Posted March 19, 2003 Here's the press release that TC released at Messe... ---------------------------------- TC Electronic presents PowerCore Firewire, providing audio professionals on the move with high quality audio processing on laptop or desktop systems. This addition to the highly acclaimed PowerCore platform offers almost twice the power of the PCI-card version. Now even complex mixes become a reality using just a laptop computer and one PowerCore Firewire. Of course the PCI-card and the Firewire version of PowerCore can be used at the same time. “PowerCore Firewire opens our platform to mobile musicians and producers”, says Ralf Schluenzen, CEO of TC Works. “Now we have a solution for everyone, the desktop as well as the laptop professional!” PowerCore Firewire offers the same unique architecture as PowerCore PCI, featuring a Motorola PowerPC and 4 Motorola DSPs for unsurpassed flexibility and quality. All signal processing is performed on the PowerCore unit, freeing up precious host performance resources for virtual instruments or native Plug-Ins. The hardware specifications go beyond those of the original card, featuring faster DSPs, a faster PowerPC and 3-times the amount of RAM per DSP. “PowerCore Firewire is our new top-of-the-line product”, comments Product Manager John Epperson. “We wanted laptop and mobile musicians and producers alike to have all the power they need - and more!” PowerCore Firewire is fully compatible with PowerCore PCI and adds even more possibilities to the growing platform. PowerCore PCI continues to represent the choice for the desktop user. Specifications (Excerpt) - 4 x Motorola 56K DSPs running at 150 MHz - 512kWords of SRAM per DSP - 1 x Motorola PowerPC running at 266 MHz - 8 MB DRAM for the PowerPC - 3 Firewire pass thru connectors (to connect more than one device on one bus) Craig Anderton Educational site: http://www.craiganderton.org Music: http://www.youtube.com/thecraiganderton Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/craig_anderton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alndln Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 [quote]Originally posted by tthoyt@hotmail.com: [b]Yes, the Powercore's plugs are all fixed point because the Powercore itself uses Motorola DSP's similar to those used by ProTools. it does not seem to have any adverse effects on audio quality.[/b][/quote]Not in itself,but anything using fixed point will clip over 0db which is exactly what I don't like about TDM and love about 32 bit float.This gives UAD a serious advantage still.Hope they come out with a similar box though and get the DX issue behind them. "A Robot Playing Trumpet Blows" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderton Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 <> Version 3.01 was released on February 28 and supposedly fixes the DX issues. I've downloaded but haven't installed it yet. Craig Anderton Educational site: http://www.craiganderton.org Music: http://www.youtube.com/thecraiganderton Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/craig_anderton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
not coaster MODERATOR Posted March 22, 2003 Author Share Posted March 22, 2003 the powercore pci is supposed to get os x this month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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