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#9244 - 09/20/01 09:08 PM How long has Phil Collins sucked?
BP3 Offline
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Registered: 07/31/00
Posts: 6524
He was one of the finest drummers that's ever played. Now, IMHO, he's the epitome of commercial crap. When do you think Phil lost it?

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#9245 - 09/20/01 09:50 PM Re: How long has Phil Collins sucked?
spigots Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/08/01
Posts: 337
Loc: Dallas,TX,UNITED STATES
Dunno.

This message has been edited by spigots on 10-02-2001 at 11:17 PM

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#9246 - 09/20/01 09:54 PM Re: How long has Phil Collins sucked?
Tedster Offline
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Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 5935
When he found out he could sell records if he'd be just a little bit more like Michael Bolton.
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#9247 - 09/20/01 09:58 PM Re: How long has Phil Collins sucked?
KHAN Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/08/00
Posts: 4062
Loc: Ceti-Alpha 5
Quote:
Originally posted by Tedster:
When he found out he could sell records if he'd be just a little bit more like Michael Bolton.


Do you mean bald?

Nice to see music topics again.

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http://www.floydtribute.hpwebhost.com
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#9248 - 09/20/01 10:07 PM Re: How long has Phil Collins sucked?
Mats Olsson. Offline
10k Club

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 14459
Loc: Eskilstuna,,SWEDEN
Quote:
Originally posted by TinderArts:
When do you think Phil lost it?


When he decided to stay solo. Apparently he is no Peter Gabriel.
PC's first solo album was ok when it came (but sounds quite dated now), and after that... downhill.

/Mats
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#9249 - 09/20/01 10:09 PM Re: How long has Phil Collins sucked?
Scott from MA Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 10/04/00
Posts: 540
Loc: Middleboro,MA,UNITED STATES
How long has Phil Collins sucked?

Hmmmm... let's see... what year was he born?
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#9250 - 09/20/01 10:26 PM Re: How long has Phil Collins sucked?
Jeff Klopmeyer Offline
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Registered: 10/13/00
Posts: 19132
Loc: Redondo Beach,CA,UNITED STATES
I am going to give you a serious answer here.

Phil's descent into suckdom began in 1980, when the otherwise decent album "Duke" saw the foreshadowing of Collins' crap with the single "Misunderstanding". It was Collins-penned shlock, and it was a big hit with housewives and teeny-boppers.

Although there have been rare flashes of the old progressively-minded Collins since then ("Home by the Sea" on 1983's self-titled album), everything since has been a giant suckfest, including all solo stuff and anything he's touched on a Genesis album.

Look, there's nothing wrong with wanting to be a millionaire. You just can't expect to be a musician at the same time.

- Jeff

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#9251 - 09/20/01 11:01 PM Re: How long has Phil Collins sucked?
steadyb Offline
Go Lakers!!!
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Registered: 12/28/00
Posts: 11169
Loc: Los Angeles, CA, UNITED STATES
I remember reading an interview he did in late 1979, where he mentioned something about his cat vomiting all over his gear, and he said he took it as a sign to go in a different direction musically. Not long after that he appeared on "Miami Vice".

steadyb

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#9252 - 09/20/01 11:09 PM Re: How long has Phil Collins sucked?
Bonafide Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 246
Loc: Santa Barbara, Ca.
There was a time when I reveled in Phils drumming, I would wake in the morning to a Bong hit, a Pepsi and head off to school with a walkman listening to Brand X, King Crimson, Zappa, Rush and Yes. Great way to kick off another school day.

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#9253 - 09/20/01 11:21 PM Re: How long has Phil Collins sucked?
AmadMozart Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/31/01
Posts: 344
Loc: Chagrin Falls,OH,UNITED STATES
Is he Sir Phil, yet? Well, if not, I swear that's what he has been angling for - following in Sir Elton's footsteps - first a Disney movie, then a title...what more could one want.

It's really too bad - Genesis, even for a few albums after Gabriels departure is still one of the best prog rock bands ever to come on the scene...I still shiver when I hear songs like Suppers Ready, Firth of Fifth, Afterglow, The Musical Box........

Cheers,

Mark

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or listen at...
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#9254 - 09/20/01 11:37 PM Re: How long has Phil Collins sucked?
SteveRB Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 01/12/01
Posts: 1795
Loc: California
The correct answer is 1983. Peter Gabriel lost it in 1979 after his first solo album.

Chester Thompson has never lost it. The album and video he did a while back with Steve Hackett and Friends called "Tokyo Tapes Live" is the best drumming I've ever heard. Highly recommend the video.

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#9255 - 09/21/01 12:02 AM Re: How long has Phil Collins sucked?
- Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 1999
OK, I admit it: I respect Phil Collins, and I used to *totally admire* the guy when "No Jacket Required" was big.

Would I buy any of his albums now? No. Do I aspire to create music like his? No. But you gotta give respect where respect is due... I mean, the guy wrote "Against All Odds", "Missed Again", "Don't Lose my Number", "In The Air Tonight", "One More Night", "Easy Lover", "Playing for Keeps", "Sussudio", "Invisible Touch", "Misunderstanding", "Follow You, Follow Me", "Tonight Tonight", "Land of Confusion", and other, more recent stuff (that I'm not as fond of)... There's not many commercial songwriters who can have *THAT* many hits, have *THAT* much variety, and be wildly successful *THAT* long.

Is his stuff deep? Socially relevant? Moving? Artsy? Not by a long shot. But the guy is a great craftsman who knows how to write a killer melody, and that's more than I can say for the folks who write for N'Sync and the other teenybopper acts.



This message has been edited by popmusic on 09-20-2001 at 11:30 PM

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#9256 - 09/21/01 12:03 AM Re: How long has Phil Collins sucked?
joegerardi Offline
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Registered: 01/04/01
Posts: 2099
Loc: Savannah,GA,UNITED STATES
Actually, I'll go a little further than most of you. I'll say 1986, and the "Invisible Touch" album.

It was a transitional album, from prog to pop. It had the pop "Invisible Touch" and "Land of Confusion," but it still a maintained the progressive flavor of "Tonight, Tonight, Tonight" and "Domino" Pt1 and 2, with (I believe) their last instrumental piece, "The Brazilian."

After that was the awful "We Can't Dance," and the soul of Genesis was forever gone.

This message has been edited by joegerardi on 09-20-2001 at 09:04 PM
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#9257 - 09/21/01 12:40 AM Re: How long has Phil Collins sucked?
gmd Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/17/01
Posts: 402
Loc: Plano,TX,UNITED STATES
I'll take it a step further. I think he lost it the moment he stepped out from behind the drums and up to a microphone. Never liked his voice or his songwriting. He should of stayed on the tubs...

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#9258 - 09/21/01 12:42 AM Re: How long has Phil Collins sucked?
Tedster Offline
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Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 5935
Jeff, our resident TASCAM guy said...
>>>Look, there's nothing wrong with wanting to be a millionaire. You just can't expect to be a musician at the same time.

Jeff, that warrants being a topic by itself...if'n you don't mind.
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#9259 - 09/21/01 02:19 AM Re: How long has Phil Collins sucked?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hmm, i like his 80s stuff with and without Genesis. I'm not a fan of Prog Rock. I do like his POP stuff. But like most artists they try to hold on too long. Eventually, you lose the inspiration and it's time to go away a take up a new hobby. You can never recapture that time when you were on top.

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#9260 - 09/21/01 02:33 AM Re: How long has Phil Collins sucked?
BP3 Offline
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Registered: 07/31/00
Posts: 6524
I enjoyed Phil live up until "Invisible Touch". A large part of that was due to the fact that he didn't shy away from stuff from "The Lamb" and other great Genesis tunes. His drumming is what always made him a great talent. With Brand X he proved he was the equal of any fusion drummer out there. "Trick Of The Tail" and some later Genesis stuff was quite good as well. I think Genesis really died when Hackett left. After that, I was just hoping for a good few songs on each release. If you want to see how excellent Phil was when he played drums, check out the live stuff off of the Genesis archive box set. My younger musician friends who only know "pop Phil" have gained respect for him after listening to that!

If I want to listen to "pop" I'll listen to Crowded House, XTC or many of the other groups of that genre who wrote many songs that don't come off trite after five years pass, IMHO. (of course they didn't sell as many records )

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#9261 - 09/21/01 02:53 AM Re: How long has Phil Collins sucked?
dansouth Offline
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Registered: 09/01/00
Posts: 3915
Loc: Metuchen,NJ,UNITED STATES
He began to suck the moment you started believing that he sucked, because suckiness is in the ear of the listener. Maybe you should hang out with H. Ross Perot; he heard a "great sucking sound" too!

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#9262 - 09/21/01 02:56 AM Re: How long has Phil Collins sucked?
fuzzbucket Offline
Member

Registered: 08/08/01
Posts: 28
Loc: astoria,NY,UNITED STATES
he started sucking the day that Peter Gabriel left Genesis. (I haven't been paying attention lately but I've heard that Peter Gabriel now sucks too).

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#9263 - 09/21/01 05:13 AM Re: How long has Phil Collins sucked?
d gauss Offline
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Registered: 02/15/01
Posts: 3231
Loc: Somewhere in the Swamps of Jer...
Quote:
Originally posted by dansouth@yahoo.com:
He began to suck the moment you started believing that he sucked, because suckiness is in the ear of the listener.


LOL. good one.

as letterman once said in the 80's, "ya know, i just don't hear enough phil collins on the radio."

-d. gauss

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#9264 - 09/21/01 01:41 PM Re: How long has Phil Collins sucked?
Jeff Klopmeyer Offline
10k Club

Registered: 10/13/00
Posts: 19132
Loc: Redondo Beach,CA,UNITED STATES
Quote:
Originally posted by Tedster:
Jeff, our resident TASCAM guy said...
>>>Look, there's nothing wrong with wanting to be a millionaire. You just can't expect to be a musician at the same time.

Jeff, that warrants being a topic by itself...if'n you don't mind.


No, I don't mind at all, Ted. If you or anyone wants to pick out examples of real, actual Musicians (capital M on purpose) from today's selection of celebrities who are also millionaires, be my guest. And good luck with that, by the way.

Oh and one more thing...I know popmusic's handle tells me that he is a aficianado of pop...nothing wrong with that. I like good pop too. But listing "Sussudio" as a song I have to respect? I'd rather stab myself repeatedly in the spleen.

- Jeff

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#9265 - 09/21/01 01:42 PM Re: How long has Phil Collins sucked?
Jeff Klopmeyer Offline
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Registered: 10/13/00
Posts: 19132
Loc: Redondo Beach,CA,UNITED STATES
Quote:
Originally posted by steadyb:
I remember reading an interview he did in late 1979, where he mentioned something about his cat vomiting all over his gear


See???!!!??? I knew cat vomit was the root of all evil.

Thanks b.

- Jeff

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#9266 - 09/21/01 02:47 PM Re: How long has Phil Collins sucked?
- Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 1999
Quote:
Originally posted by Jeff, TASCAM Guy:
Oh and one more thing...I know popmusic's handle tells me that he is a aficianado of pop...nothing wrong with that. I like good pop too. But listing "Sussudio" as a song I have to respect? I'd rather stab myself repeatedly in the spleen.


Well, it's tough to critically defend mindless pop like "Sussudio", so I won't (and I can't! ).

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#9267 - 09/21/01 03:00 PM Re: How long has Phil Collins sucked?
Doctor Frankensteinway Offline
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Registered: 08/23/01
Posts: 173
Loc: under your front porch, buildi...
Phil Collins is still alive ?





Shit. This is news to me.
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#9268 - 09/21/01 04:33 PM Re: How long has Phil Collins sucked?
BP3 Offline
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Registered: 07/31/00
Posts: 6524
Get (insert your choice of evil here), lock him in a dark room with an endless loop of "Sussudio". Maybe overdub a Kenny G solo on it.

This message has been edited by TinderArts on 09-21-2001 at 05:08 PM

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#9269 - 09/21/01 08:03 PM Re: How long has Phil Collins sucked?
DougP Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/20/01
Posts: 206
Loc: Oakland,CA,UNITED STATES
People who *don't* like prog-rock and/or fusion might say he sucked when he left Flaming Youth and joined Genesis.

On the other hand, many people who like 60's Mod music might say that currently, he RULES! I may hate his 80's schlock-pop (both w/Genesis & solo), but anyone who facilitates and finances the reunion of his favorite obscure band from his youth (the Action, in Phil's case) is A-OK in my book (in the same way that I'll forgive Peter Grant for being a fat greedy b*stard, since the last thing he did was helping the Pretty Things get the rights to their back catalog so they could reissue it and do a reunion tour).

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#9270 - 09/21/01 08:08 PM Re: How long has Phil Collins sucked?
BP3 Offline
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Registered: 07/31/00
Posts: 6524
Like what you like, and enjoy it like it's the last time you might hear it. Never know these days. Just a topic to talk about something related to music, and one that really doesn't mean shit.

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#9271 - 09/21/01 08:21 PM Re: How long has Phil Collins sucked?
Anderton Offline
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Registered: 01/28/00
Posts: 7377
Maybe he likes the music he makes. Maybe he got past having romances go bad, needing to "prove" himself in the wake of Gabriel's departure from Genesis, and is basically a content, older guy hanging out on a nice spread in England. Maybe he just wants music to be fun and relaxing, so that's what he does. Maybe he has kids, and thought doing a Disney flick would be fun for them.

Pretend just for a second that Genesis had never existed, Phil Collins had never existed, Peter Gabriel had never existed. Then Disney comes out with Tarzan, featuring a soundtrack from some unknown guy named Bernie Joe Bob. I bet a lot of people would have said, "Hey, Disney's getting hip, that's not a bad soundtrack for a Disney flick."

Don't forget that people change, and when they do, their music changes as well. If someone gets off making New Age Polka CDs, fine. Of course, don't expect me to buy it .
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#9272 - 09/21/01 08:37 PM Re: How long has Phil Collins sucked?
BP3 Offline
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Registered: 07/31/00
Posts: 6524
That's true Craig. Phil does like what he writes, I would think. He's also been a commercially oriented musician for a while, not that that's a bad thing. His pop stuff just doesn't do it for me. Phil was interviewed years ago on WGTB in DC (Georgetown University's station) and thought that Genesis lost out on many casual buyers when "The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway" was released, because it was a double album. I'm glad his concerns didn't win out because, for me, "The Lamb" is a classic.

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#9273 - 09/21/01 08:51 PM Re: How long has Phil Collins sucked?
strat0124 Offline
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Registered: 04/03/01
Posts: 5056
Loc: ,VA,UNITED STATES
Duke to me was the last good album Genesis ever did. There were a few very cool songs on later albums, but they never approached that "EVERY SONG IS KILLER" status. My brother would argue that after Peter Gabriel left they sucked. I remember bonging down and listening to "Lamb Lies Down on Broadway"........sounds great LOUD! Though In the Air Tonight has one of the coolest drum breaks in history.
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