Anybody tried both the RD700SX and the Promega 3?

[MonSound]

Hello folks,

 

I have read a lot about the different stagepianos available, and for the moment I have narrowed my search down to the RD700 SX or the Promega 3. I know the RD700SX is probably the latest in technology, while the Promega has been around for quite some time now and might have difficulties keeping up with the technology. I still hear a lot of good words on the Promega though.

 

I am mainly interested in the acoustic piano sounds, the other sounds are not important to me. Keyboard feeling is however important, it should be as close to "real" piano as possible.

 

So my question is: Have anybody tried and tested both those keyboard, and which one did you prefer?

 

(I have read a lot of information and discussions on both keyboards, so I'm not looking for opinions on just one of them. I'm looking for the impressions from those who have actually played both)

 

Thanks!

[PaulSchwarz]

I personally think the the sound on the Promega is a little more powerful and dynamic - no velocity switching b/c they use modeling... but I would probably pick the RD-700sx b/c of it's action which is way more realistic IMHO and the price is a little better as well (I think)

 

just my .02

[DaveMcM]

Originally posted by MonSound:

I know the RD700SX is probably the latest in technology, while the Promega has been around for quite some time now and might have difficulties keeping up with the technology.

Hi,

 

Excuse me for jumping in here but just to clarify your comment;

 

The Promega 3 is far ahead technologically speaking that most of the other digital pianos out there. As Paul pointed out the dynamic response/harmonic content is accomplished through physical modeling techniques and not velocity cross-switched samples and filters. Plus 320 note polyphony, etc. etc. Please take a look at the demo videos on our website to learn more about the DRAKE microprocessor and the physical models running inside the Promega series. I don't want to do a commercial here, and I am sure you don't want to hear one.

 

That being said, the RD700SX has a terrific piano sound as does the Promega. They are different piano sounds but both are good. I feel the Promega has a bit more versatility in that there are several completely different acoustic pianos that have been modeled so you have a better chance of finding that perfect piano sound for a given piece if music.

 

The same goes for the key feel. They both feel good but different. The Roland is a bit heavier and tighter where the Promega is a bit looser and faster which is neither good nor bad really. It just depends on what you are looking for in an action. The truth is you will get used to whatever you have (as long as the action is decent, which these both are). You said that you want something as close to a real piano feel as possible. I suggest you play an acoustic grand next to both models and decide for yourself which is closer to what you are looking for.

 

Good luck,

 

Dave

[BeerCan]

Well I tried the rd700sx and I purchased the promega 2. So my opinion will be a little biased. When I was searching for a digiatal piano I was a very new keyboard player (still am) however I knew I wanted awesome piano sounds. I was ill experienced to "know" what I wanted in the action department so it was less of an issue to me.

 

At the time I was looking I could not find the Promega, but the rolands were everywhere. To make a long story short I was very very close to buying the rd700sx. This was because the promegas are impossible to demo. Due to some very very impassioned people on this board and others I went against better judgement and purchased a Promega 2 sight unseen.

 

It was the right move for me. I love the pianos on it. Everyone who plays it remarks on how realistic and wonderful it sounds. upon reflection I know I would have been happy with the 700, but I am sure glad I took the chance on GEM.

[guzman]

Promega 3. And no, I do not own one. I have a Yamaha S90.

 

I played an RD700SX at GC last week, and frankly, while I thought it was decent, I was not wowed by it at all. I'll keep my S90, thank you, but for acoustic piano sounds, the Promega beats both boards handily.

[mrmilan]

MonS...

 

From what I've been hearing, the RD700sx has the superior action while the Pro 3 has the superior sound. That is to say, each are slightly better in those respective categories and IMHO lead their market.

 

You are going to have to make a trade-off somewhere.

 

Imagining that each of these boards ONLY did piano... would you consider the option of using an RD700sx with a soft synth such as Ivory? You could probably get both for the price of a Pro 3.

 

In any case, you're generally not going to be doing a whole lot of bad with either.

[MonSound]

Thanks to everyone for the answers. After checking out the Drake videos on GEMs homesite i¨m pretty sure I will go for a Promega, but maybe I will buy the Promega 2 instead of the 3 since I'm mainly after the piano sounds. The price difference between the Promega 2 and the Rd700SX is not that much.

 

Just to be sure, there is no difference between the action on the promega 2 and 3 except for the aftertouch, right?

[DaveMcM]

Just curious if anyone has noticed how on some digital piano keyboards the black keys are actually higher at the front edge (toward the front of the keyboard and slope down at the back of the key?

 

In other words, on a grand/vertical acoustic piano the height of the black keys is equal from front to back as it is on some digital pianos.

 

I recently had a chance to check out a lot of different actions from several brands and noticed that a lot of the black keys sloped down hill from front to back. This felt uncomfortable when playing chords where my fingers playing black keys that were closer to the back portion of the key didnt have the same physical control over velocity as black keys played closer to the front edge of the key due to the reduced key travel.

 

Just curious,

 

Dave (off the clock)

[DaveMcM]

Originally posted by MonSound:

Just to be sure, there is no difference between the action on the promega 2 and 3 except for the aftertouch, right?

Hi,

 

These two instruments do use different keybeds. As you mentioned the Promega 3 has aftertouch. When a key bottoms out on the PM3, there is a bit of cushion due to the aftertouch strip. This side effect actually makes the PM3 keyboard a little more authentic to the feel of an acoustic action that also has felt under each key.

 

The PM2 keys have more of a solid stop since there is no aftertouch strip, which is more typical of most of the digital piano keyboards.

 

The PM3 has a little more key travel that the PM2. FWIW- I typically use the PM2 for gigging and find the action quite playable. But on occasions when I have taken the PM3 out for studio work, I do enjoy that keybed a bit more.

 

Hope that helps,

 

Dave

[gangsu]

Originally posted by DaveMcM:

I feel the Promega has a bit more versatility

weelllll there's the understatement of the year.

 

I have to warn you MonSound, a Promega fan views all other stage pianos as curiosities at best. Why would anybody spend good money on anything else?

 

I own a PM3 but I did play the RD700SX and the RD300SX. That is, I walked into a store and fooled around from a standing position for a couple minutes. I didn't try to figure them out, I more or less just wanted to feel the keys. I was surprised they felt ok! sorry, that's as far as my curiosity took me. I think you really have to get these instruments home, and get serious with a particular piece of music before you can determine whether or not you'll relate. (Unless of course you're bent on making the relationship work and hold yourself entirely responsible....but that's another topic )

 

At any rate, I've been out of the loop for a few days and am just thrilled to see a new thread on the Promega. Yahoo. I should stay away more often.

 

Just curious if anyone has noticed how on some digital piano keyboards the black keys are actually higher at the front edge (toward the front of the keyboard and slope down at the back of the key?

I have never noticed that. That's fascinating. Thanks for pointing it out, I'll keep my eyes open.

[DaveMcM]

Originally posted by gangsu:

Originally posted by DaveMcM:

I feel the Promega has a bit more versatility

weelllll there's the understatement of the year.

Hi Sue,

 

Just to keep it in context, the versatility comment is in regards to the acoustic piano capabilities of the Promega series. The RD700 does have more synth type sounds than the PM (if that's what you're looking for).

 

Have a great day!

 

Dave

[Immo]

Dave,

 

It seems a little bird a while back said that some things like mic distance and maybe one or two other parameters were controllable in early software beta testing of the Promega models. Do you think there's any chance we might get control of those parameters in a future os upgrade?

 

More on subject, I own a Promega 3 and have played an RD700sx a couple times. I like the pianos on the Promega 3 better. When I play my Promega 3, I think "wow" and just get lost in it, whereas on the RD700sx, I think it sounds good.

 

The Promega series has some parameters you can tweak like an 8 band EQ, the particular piano tuning, low pass filter. The RD700sx has some interesting options you can tweak like how far the lid is open, mic distance, and mic type. It also has a degree of string resonance setting, but I kind of figure either you have it right or not (and the Promega 3 has it modeled into their piano sounds). Also, maybe my ear isn't fine tuned enough, but I couldn't tell the difference of mic type settings. Also I wouldn't be surprised if the RD700sx had EQ although I don't know how many bands. It has four sliders, but somehow they managed to allow them to control 8 organ drawbars.

 

The other two effects (distance and lid) may be able to be emulated by a combination of Promega 3 reverb, low pass filter, and eq.

 

That's about as deep as I got into the RD700sx.

 

I'm looking foward to the new os when I get my keyboard back from the upgrade, as I hear the pianos samples were improved (and I liked the existing ones so that's just gravy).

[orangefunk]

would be coolto have more editable parameters on the Promega, still loving it though!!!

 

To me the Fazioli preset doesn't feel quite right in the solo context...the key to sound feel isn't as good as the Steinway...

 

A great piano patch for playing over dance tracks,is the funky piano...just amazing... great for Latin house solos...

[DaveMcM]

Originally posted by Immo:

Dave,

 

It seems a little bird a while back said that some things like mic distance and maybe one or two other parameters were controllable in early software beta testing of the Promega models. Do you think there's any chance we might get control of those parameters in a future os upgrade?

I don't really see that happening, sorry. But I am still more than happy to send your request to the engineers.

 

The other two effects (distance and lid) may be able to be emulated by a combination of Promega 3 reverb, low pass filter, and eq.

True. In using the reverb, LPF and EQ you too can duplicate the sound of the lid being open or closed or anywhere in between as well as the EQ curves of various mics.

 

Best Regards,

 

Dave

[DaveMcM]

Originally posted by orangefunk:

To me the Fazioli preset doesn't feel quite right in the solo context...the key to sound feel isn't as good as the Steinway...

When you need a huge sounding, ultra-dynamic piano that can talk sweet and then slice your head off, there is nothing like the Fazioli. But I agree that the Steinway is the more controllable of the two. It is sure nice to have them both to choose from.

 

A great piano patch for playing over dance tracks,is the funky piano...just amazing... great for Latin house solos...

I have been getting into the upright piano lately for specific songs. My band does some backup work for oldies/DoWop shows that come through town and having that old upright piano is much more authentic sounding than using a fancy, clean sounding grand.

 

BTW, nice to see you around these parts. It's been a while.

 

Best Regards,

 

Dave

[marino]

I have played both. I would describe the Promega piano sounds as warmer, with more continuity but maybe a tiny bit of 'granulosity', while the RD700sx has more of a bright sound, quite well-defined but a little bit metallic.

 

The keyboard on the Promega is excellent and gives a good dynamic response. However, it doesn't offer much resistance for my tastes. This could be a good thing if you play long gigs - it won't tire your hands so much.

 

On the other hand, if I'd need a keyboard to practice my technique on, I'd choose the RD700sx. It has a superb keybed, with a great amount of resistance and, even more important, the right piano-like response. In the end, it depends on what your hands are accustomed to; if you aren't a diehard pianist, the RD could prove difficult to play after 4 or 5 hours.

[gangsu]

Originally posted by DaveMcM:

When you need a huge sounding, ultra-dynamic piano that can talk sweet and then slice your head off, there is nothing like the Fazioli.

*slapping my head*!! I've been going about this all wrong! Trying to control the beast? Unleash the power! Thank you Dave!

 

Ok Immo. I heard something about enginerrs [sic] calling the shots...oh dear.....

[DaveMcM]

Originally posted by gangsu:

*slapping my head*!! I've been going about this all wrong! Trying to control the beast? Unleash the power! Thank you Dave!

 

Ok Immo. I heard something about enginerrs [sic] calling the shots...oh dear.....

Yeah, but most of these engineers are incredible pianists.

[ITGITC]

DAMMIT KURZWEIL!

 

WHY CAN'T YOU GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER AND PUT SOME KEYBOARDS OUT THERE FOR PEOPLE TO TRY?

 

I like my PC2X.

 

Unfortunately, you'll probably never see one on display anywhere near you. Therefore trying to make a point of comparison between the PC2X, the RD700SX and the Promega 3 is a moot point. Isn't it?

 

What a disappointment.

[Immo]

Ok Immo. I heard something about enginerrs [sic] calling the shots...oh dear.....

Who said anything about enginerrs? I was talking about the studding engineers.

 

Originally posted by DaveMcM:

Yeah, but most of these engineers are incredible pianists.

Do you think milk and cookies would get to them in one piece via Fedex (they do like milk and cookies don't they)?

[gangsu]

Originally posted by Is There Gas in the Car?: trying to make a point of comparison between the PC2X, the RD700SX and the Promega 3 is a moot point. Isn't it?

What a disappointment.

Not a moot point, at all. I hear ya. If it's any consolation, I was considering editing my previous post to include Kurzweil fans among those who are in such complete union with their instrument, that anything less is a mere toy. But i didn't. There's something about an edit that indicates a lack of coherence and conviction. Put up or shut up. Oh well. As long as we understand eachother.

 

Originally posted by Immo:

Who said anything about enginerrs? I was talking about the studding engineers.

aH! the enginerr who wishes to become the engineer, must be willing to studdy like crazy.... long, hard, hours.....

 

WAIT! what is it we're asking for again?

 

Cookie break! Now!!

[b3keys]

On the other hand, if I'd need a keyboard to practice my technique on, I'd choose the RD700sx. It has a superb keybed, with a great amount of resistance and, even more important, the right piano-like response. In the end, it depends on what your hands are accustomed to; if you aren't a diehard pianist, the RD could prove difficult to play after 4 or 5 hours.

Interesting. Compared to the Yamaha P Series, S90 and Motifs, the Roland seems lightweight! Personally, I just love the RD700SX and can't wait to get one!

[MonSound]

Thanks again for a lot of good responses and opinions. The problem here where I live is that the Promega is almost impossible to find in the music stores, while the RD700SX seems to be on every corner. I have tested the RD700SX and find it quite good, and I have always liked the Roland sound. I'm not a very advanced player, so I can probably adapt both to the RD and the Promega action.

 

So, I like the Roland, I have tested it, and this is surely the safe option. However, i find the videos demonstrating the Promega and the Drake technology very exciting, and for the moment I am leaning towards taking the chance on a Promega 3 or 2. Will have to see if I can find a shop here in Norway which carry them though... Or maybe I should buy one from Germany...

[BeerCan]

MonSound,

I was in the same exact position you are in now. I could demo roland's and yamaha's all day long but no promega's. My gut told me to try the Promega and for me it was right.

 

See if you can get a deal where you can return the unit if its not to your liking. That way at least you are only out the shipping amount. I think you will keep it.

[ITGITC]

Originally posted by gangsu:

Originally posted by Is There Gas in the Car?: trying to make a point of comparison between the PC2X, the RD700SX and the Promega 3 is a moot point. Isn't it?

What a disappointment.

Not a moot point, at all. I hear ya. If it's any consolation, I was considering editing my previous post to include Kurzweil fans among those who are in such complete union with their instrument, that anything less is a mere toy. But i didn't. There's something about an edit that indicates a lack of coherence and conviction. Put up or shut up. Oh well. As long as we understand eachother.

 

Why is it that I feel like I've just been put down - slapped up side da head in a sickly-sweet-sorta way?

 

Not only do I get lambasted for saying that I like my keyboard, but I get reprimanded on the possibility that I might have edited a post!

 

Like I said, women - don't mess wit 'em. They don't play fair, guys. They'll flirt and bat their eyelashes. And sometimes they smell pretty good too. But watch yer back because when you least expect it (and often when they least expect it because of those MOOD SWINGS and stuff that happens to 'em on occassion) POW! Out of NOWHERE! Right in the back of da head!

 

Ya can't win. ...remember that.

 

I'm not sure what I did to deserve this, but - well, here you have it... PAYBACK!

 

 

Sheeeesh.

[Immo]

Originally posted by Is There Gas in the Car?:

Why is it that I feel like I've just been put down - slapped up side da head in a sickly-sweet-sorta way?

 

Not only do I get lambasted for saying that I like my keyboard, but I get reprimanded on the possibility that I might have edited a post!

 

Like I said, women - don't mess wit 'em. They don't play fair, guys. They'll flirt and bat their eyelashes. And sometimes they smell pretty good too. But watch yer back because when you least expect it (and often when they least expect it because of those MOOD SWINGS and stuff that happens to 'em on occassion) POW! Out of NOWHERE! Right in the back of da head!

 

Ya can't win. ...remember that.

 

I'm not sure what I did to deserve this, but - well, here you have it... PAYBACK!

 

 

Sheeeesh.

Boy you told her. I take it this was a different thread you may have edited a post on? Otherwise I need read into things a whole lot more.

[gangsu]

GAS THAT"S REALLY BIZARRE, WHAT YOU JUST WROTE. Whoaaaa there buddy. Yoweee. Hooeeww! Hiyaow. I think you got whacked before you read my post, maybe. Wham! HAHAHHELP somebody.

 

let me try once more:

 

Not a moot point, at all. I hear ya. [that means, I agree with you.]If it's any consolation, I was considering editing my previous post [approximately 5 minutes after I wrote it, ie, past the deadline of editing incognito][i said NOTHING about you editing yOUR post]to include Kurzweil fans[such as yourself] among those who are in such complete union with their instrument,[er, that's a compliment] that anything less is a mere toy. But i didn't. [note once again that I refer to myself here, not yourself] There's something about an edit [again again again, speaking for myself]that indicates a lack of coherence and conviction. Put up or shut up. [in other words, I missed my chance] Oh well. As long as we understand eachother. [how far from the truth can I get?! ]

[ITGITC]

Dear Sue,

 

Please open the dictionary to the word PARANOID. There you will find my picture.

 

Hell, I edit my own posts all the time. I'll find a comma out of place or a misspelled word and I'll edit it. I stay up nights thinking if I should have added a smiley when I didn't.

 

And then I'll think about MY keyboard convictions and how I still think I made a good choice but should stop trying to mention this in every post.

 

So yeah, I figured you were slapping me in the back of the head for this stuff. And yes, I think I'm a li'l bit crazy... but aren't MOST OF US? (See the Keyboard Player Stereotypes thread. Look for "Looney old-phart keyboard player who still plays for beer and tips"

 

[gangsu]

Well. . I'm not intentionally ignoring you. forgot to sign out....i'll be back after i take care of business.

[Immo]

You crazy keyboard players!!!!

 

Wait...