Hello B3 players - Help needed

[Andre Lower]

OK, here is a good excuse to learn something that is usually learned through exhaustive Hanon exercises, but to people like me is better learned with an immediate purpose at hand: I have been trying to cover Deep Purple's "Pictures of Home", one of my all-time favorite organ songs. I got the organ sound itself nailed, all chords and tempo too, but am stuck (and awed ) by the fast part of the solo. I wish I could post an mp3 bit of exactly which part I want to address, but those who know this song sure will understand what I'm talking about: The three fast scales that sound as a palm smear but are in fact very fast scales . I got the notes right (courtesy of a good ear plus a decent MIDI file) and can play these scales slowly, but playing them as fast as John Lord did in the album requires the proper right-hand fingering technique (i.e. choice of finger order upon running up and down the keybed). As I realize this (plus the obvious hours of wood shedding...) is required if I ever want to play this song, I'd like to hear any tips on the correct fingering technique (is this the right name at all???) which those versed on fast lick playing use.

 

Please bear in mind that (as stressed to oblivion by Dave Horne & the Jazz Police on a previous post of mine) I am "musically illiterate".

[Dave Horne]

I was going to advise that to check your own playing for that fly-away-wrist test, but since you mentioned me by name, I assume you really do not want any critical advice. (Thread Correct Piano Technique )

 

The problem you are having may not be a fingering problem per se, but simply a technique problem. See, I got through this entire post without mentioning literacy. I will also not add any further comments to this thread as I do not wish you to be stressed.

[burningbusch]

Andre, I'm not familiar with the song but all I could find on Real Rhapsody was a live version from Total Abandon CD. Is that the version you're refering to?

 

Busch.

[coyote]

The version he's referring to is the studio version from Machine Head. These are essentially harmonized chromatic runs up & down the B minor scale.

 

I haven't dabbled with that one in awhile; I'll have a go at it and report back what I find (keeping in mind that my technique is also quite unsuited to the task).

[Andre Lower]

Originally posted by burningbusch:

Andre, I'm not familiar with the song but all I could find on Real Rhapsody was a live version from Total Abandon CD. Is that the version you're refering to?

 

Busch.

Hi Busch,

 

no, I mean the Machine Head album. Am not familiar with Total Abandon, but these fast scales are such a trademark of Lord's playing that I could bet he reproduces it note-by-note on every recording of this song. No risk of you listening to the right song and not spotting this particular lick at once...

[iLaw]

André

 

Coyote's right as I recall (from 30 years ago? ouch!) I recall three points in the solo where he essentially just ran parallel chromatic scales (in thirds, I think, or were they sixths?) starting on B, which as I recall was the original key. Since you apparently already have the actual notes, however, the way that I would practice the part is:

 

- make sure you've got the scale fingerings down, you're gonna need them;

- practice lots of very short bursts (3-5 notes) two-handed to get a feel for the finger combinations;

- set the target notes you're going to hit on the beats, then practice one beat (8-10 notes as I recall) at a time. Don't worry about whether you're playing triplets, quintuplets or whatever, think "all these notes, all in one beat."

- put the beats together.

- remember that you don't need to hit the keybed when you're moving fast on a Hammond; just enough key dip to trigger the notes will do. See if you can go faster by keeping your stroke short (smoothness may take some working on, especially if you're primarily a piano player like me).

 

Maybe this was of some help?

 

Larry.

[burningbusch]

OK, I just listened to it. Yes coyote's right.

 

chromatic line: B up to G, back down to B up to D# down to B. Left hand harmonized with it down a 6th D# upto B...

 

Think about doing a different fingering of the chromatic scale. Try 1 ,2, 3, 4, 5, 1, 2, 3, 4 - 3, 2, 1, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1...

Do the same in the left hand. Both hands will cross at the same point and the last little up-down is done without crossing.

 

Next line is the same thing up one octave.

 

Final line is a two octave chromatic scale, again harmonized down a 6th in the left hand. You can work out the finger on that one. Also, the last line is a bit messy. He does end with a tritone B in the right and F in the left.

 

At least that's how I hear it. A yeah, and practice it slowly.

 

Busch.

[Immo]

I know the classical way of playing chromatic scales is 1,3,1,3,1,2,3 (starting on C). So basically it's 1 on the white, and 3 on the black unless you're playing the two consecutive whites in which case it's 1,2, and then 3 on the black key (ascending).

 

You do that in reverse descending.

 

I wouldn't know if this is ideal for the solo you're talking about though. I know which one it is and starting a one week rampage of doing chromatic scales and then stopped no closer to being able to play the solo.

 

Use a metronome if you have one available for sure.

[David Loving]

Here's my tip, the step by step method for learning any music. It has been described as setting a fractured bone. It makes the harderst part of a piece the strongest part:

 

Practice the part before you do anything else in your practice session. The very first thing; while you are at your freshest. Have all the notes absolutely right. Plan the fingering - so you don't run out of fingers and still have notes to play. Have the fingering absolutely right. You do not want to groove a mistake or a bad habit. Get a metronome, a clock [give yourself about a half hour to practice the parts per session] and 25 poker chips. Lock yourself in a room. Concentrate on what you are doing. Practice each part very slowly to the metronome - hands separately. 25 times each - keep track with the poker chips. Later you can put the hands together, when you know the parts hands separate. 25 times each Gradually increase speed over time. Cover the parts this way at least twice as many practice sessions as you think are enough times. When you think you are finally getting it, slow down some more. Do this until you can play the part perfectly without thinking about it. Then, play along with Lord on the record.

 

The weird thing is that you can get to where you like practicing this way!

 

Good luck!

[Andre Lower]

Originally posted by burningbusch:

... Think about doing a different fingering of the chromatic scale. Try 1 ,2, 3, 4, 5, 1, 2, 3, 4 - 3, 2, 1, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1...

Busch.

Originally posted by Immordino:

...I know the classical way of playing chromatic scales is 1,3,1,3,1,2,3 (starting on C). So basically it's 1 on the white, and 3 on the black unless you're playing the two consecutive whites in which case it's 1,2, and then 3 on the black key (ascending).

Well I got different fingering suggestions from different people. Not that it surprises me that much (by now you guys probably realize how much I care for conventions...) but I was assuming there was a "standard", "correct" or "ideal" fingering sequence for pulling this one out. Never mind, I'll try these two options and any other you guys offer me, and then use the one that works best.

 

BTW, those acquainted with the original recording will notice that even during the toughest parts of this solo you still can hear Mr.Lord's left hand comping the harmony chords that are the trademark of the song. I know enough about Hammond organs to doubt it could be layered, and yet the solo has lots of doubled-notes (i.e. two-hands job)...My guesses are:

 

1) That is a record-only stunt, with the obvious recording of the rhythmic and solo parts on different takes, mixed later on;

 

2) A Hammond allows some sort of trick that works just like layering a third, sixth or whatever note over any single note you play (slim chance), or

 

3) John Lord is an alien and has a third hand hidden, specially designed for fast keyboard parts, branching from his torso right above his belly-button !

 

Comments, please.

[RudyS]

4) he play's the solo using his feet and the pedal of the organ, while playing the chords with his hands.

[Jon Doe]

Andre, a Hammond has a percussion feature on the upper manual that will produce either a 2nd or 3rd harmonic, then decay.

[Andre Lower]

Originally posted by Jon Doe:

Andre, a Hammond has a percussion feature on the upper manual that will produce either a 2nd or 3rd harmonic, then decay.

Well Thanks for the input. That could be the trick he used to allow playing all the solo double notes with his right hand only. Then again I am still shocked at his coordination and sheer speed on playing the solo while comping the harmony chords (simple, but the tempo is very important...) on his left hand. Personally I'll be damn glad if ever i get to play the solo's right hand. Practice, practice, practice...

[iLaw]

Jon Lord may have been an alien (I have no information one way or the other), but he did the "Pictures of Home" solo the old-fashioned earthling way; its overdubbed.

 

Larry.

[burningbusch]

I wanted to comment that the only reason I posted the odd finger possibility is that when I heard the riff it struck me as a fingering exercise. So I experimented a bit and found the above fingering to be very efficient for the first two runs. Additionally because it's done on the organ there is not the issue of the fourth and fifth fingers (right hand) not having the same strength as the "power" fingers.

 

Busch.

[Andre Lower]

OK, I am by now playing Deep Purple's "Pictures of Home" much better than a week ago, thanks in part to the help I've got here. But after listening to the original for several times in a row I get the impression hat one or more of the following is going on in the basic rhythmic parts:

 

1) Mr. Lord plays "occasionally" some bass boosting chords with his left hand. At least it sounds like that, though the MIDI file I was using as a guide does not include any left hand notes (well, MIDI files sometimes suck anyway...)

 

2) There seems to be a lot more of distortion on these lower notes than on the higher ones. My ignorance about real Hammonds plays a part here: Could he be overdriving only the lower manual of his Hammond? Or else be plugging the top manual on a Leslie and the lower on a Marshall?

 

3) He could be using the same sound all over, but controlling how much overdrive he gets with some kind of expression pedal.

 

Can anyone offer some enlightening here ?

[Dave Pierce]

Originally posted by Andre Lower:

2) There seems to be a lot more of distortion on these lower notes than on the higher ones. My ignorance about real Hammonds plays a part here: Could he be overdriving only the lower manual of his Hammond? Or else be plugging the top manual on a Leslie and the lower on a Marshall?

Yeah, he certainly could be doing something like that. However, it's fairly normal to get more obvious distortion from the low- and mid-range than the high.

 

3) He could be using the same sound all over, but controlling how much overdrive he gets with some kind of expression pedal.

Yeah, he's almost certainly doing that. If you wanna get your Hammond technique down, learn how to use the expression pedal like a third hand.

 

What's your Hammond emulation rig?

 

--Dave

[Andre Lower]

Originally posted by Dave Pierce:

 

What's your Hammond emulation rig?

 

--Dave

errr...Roland XP-30 with Keys of the 60'&70' SRJV expansion card. I know, not much, but for someone who is trying to learn something about organs for the first time it sounds OK. I do have a Roland Expression pedal, but confess I seldom use it, because its effect on volume is way too sudden. Perhaps I'll try it again assigning the distorted tones of the Hammond patch to it. This way, when I press the pedal, I'll get both more volume (naturally) and more distortion. Or perhaps I could program it so that the undistorted tones get lower as the distorted ones get higher and vice-versa. Any comments?