The best FUSION albums of all time?

[dansouth]

Since I'm in dire need of a haircut, I decided to put on my bell bottoms, unbutton my shirt and listen to some fusion this evening. It was great for about twenty minutes, then the music started to get annoying in that sterile, overplayed, fusion sort of way... But while we're reminiscing, what were some of the quintessential fusion albums? Which albums/groups were your personal favorites and why?

[D. Gauss]

while i must admit to owning a couple of fusion records, i've always felt that fusion was akin to it's name...two things (rock/jazz) that weren't meant to go together and had to be forced. in the long run, i'd rather listen to ac/dc and louis armstrong on their own depending upon my mood... -d. gauss

[Tedster]

A couple that come to mind... Mahavishnu Orchestra...Birds of Fire Jean-Luc Ponty...Enigmatic Ocean There are tons, though.

[D. Gauss]

[quote]Originally posted by Tedster: [b]A couple that come to mind... Mahavishnu Orchestra...Birds of Fire [/b][/quote] is that the one live in central park? if so, i had that one. never did much for me, but i do remember liking the intro to one tune that was variations on a "d" chord..... at that point in time jimmy page (and songs that girls also dug) ruled my world... -d. gauss

[Alndln]

Birds of Fire was not the live one and a masterpiece,around the time I stopped listening to Jimmy Page.I still like Jeff Beck though.

[surfjunkie]

i never really got into fusion. the fusioniest album i've got is stan getz' captain marvel, with corea, stanley clarke, tony williams. This message has been edited by wager47 on 10-05-2001 at 03:05 AM

[surfjunkie]

was bitches brew fusion?

[dansouth]

[quote]Originally posted by wager47: [b]was bitches brew fusion?[/b][/quote] Some people feel that Bitches Brew was the very FIRST fusion album, although it doesn't really sound like anything before or since. I think BB may have introduced the instrumentation that became popular with fusion groups, electric bass, electric piano, electric...trumpet(!). Bitches Brew influenced other projects like Herbie Hancock's "Headhunters," McLaughlin's "Birds Of Fire," and the early Weather Report albums. These were the roots of the fusion movement. It's funny how it all comes back to Miles.

[soapbox]

Not only did "Bitches Brew" kick off fusion movement, it featured a number of musicians who would later become some of fusion's greats. These included John McLaughlin, Joe Zawinul, Lenny White, Herbie Hancock, Billy Cobham, Wayne Shorter, and Chick Corea. Other great fusion era LPs: "Romantic Warrior" by Return to Forever "Journey to Love" by Stanley Clarke "Heavy Weather" by Weather Report "Headhunters" by Herbie Hancock "Arbour Zena" by Keith Jarrett "Blow By Blow" Jeff Beck "Birds of Fire," already mentioned by others, is IMO Mahavishnu Orchestra's best.

[dansouth]

I have to wonder if there aren't some twenty-year-olds out there who are saying, "What the f*** are these guys talking about?" [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif[/img]

[Chip McDonald]

[quote]Originally posted by Tedster: [b]A couple that come to mind... Mahavishnu Orchestra...Birds of Fire Jean-Luc Ponty...Enigmatic Ocean [/b][/quote] Eggzaklee. _Bitches Brew_ instigated it, made it "ok" to try by "serious" jazzbos. _Bitches Brew_ was Miles wanting to be Jimi Hendrix. Jimi in some of the Band of Gypsies stuff, maybe. Maybe the early Chick stuff. Or Weather Report later; Jaco was onto it, but his trip was more about being open minded than "fusing" anything... I think Beck codified it, though. His take on "Goodbye Pork Pie Hat" is probably the first successfully integrated jazz/rock piece IMO. Unfortunately, I think only Holdsworth is *really* doing "fusion", in the sense of using rock sounds with a *real* jazz approach (improvising over changes). What passes as "fusion" these days is nothing more than either mildly complex pop music (soloing over one chord - even if it's a "jazz chord" - while the band plays a predetermined figure - IS NOT JAZZ. ------------------ [b]New and Improved Music Soon:[/b] http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald

[Rod S]

[quote]Originally posted by dansouth@yahoo.com: [b]I have to wonder if there aren't some twenty-year-olds out there who are saying, "What the f*** are these guys talking about?" [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif[/img][/b][/quote] haha Dan. Actually, all my cousins were older, so I listened to a lot of this stuff as a kid. My brother would give me some odd looks when I got back from the record store. I'm in my late 20's, but it still counts [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif[/img]

[Mats Olsson.]

There is one really fantastic fusion-esque band that, so far, only a selected few have heard. If you like bands like Dream Theater you'll probably going to love "Pain of Salvation". They have made 3 terrific albums and there's more to come, check them out! http://www.painofsalvation.com/ /Mats

[dansouth]

[quote]Originally posted by mats.olsson@rockfile.se: [b]If you like bands like Dream Theater...[/b][/quote] I don't. Does that mean that I should skip this link?

[halljams]

I'm surprised that there are not more posts actually. I loved a ton of fusion. Some of my favs are -Early yellow jackets(Robben Ford!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)fucking monster -(well come on ... the whole band was so stunning, i still dug the flowery stuff but the first 2-3 albums were so aggressive, such "band fire") I saw theme once and was stunned by Jimmy Haslips'soloing, Wholly fuck. Like a piano -Blue matter!Loud Jazz! sco. Dennis chambers and Gary Grainger, also the very cool Mitch Forman on keys. An album i listened to a ridiculous amount of times was called "still Warm" Omar Hakim and Darryl Jones right after he left Miles.Also on that album the late and so way ahead of his time... Don Grolnik. -Speaking of Miles, some very important albums for me were in the early 80's DECOY Ahhh i just wanted to bask in that for a minute! What an incredible album "We want miles" was An exellent introduction to Mike Stern and Marcus for me. WHat was that drummers name? Killer! I really dug Amandala. Kenny Garret is Top of the list in my books. Am I rambling? I got more... There is a Canadian band Many of you probly know Called UZEB. I heard Miles Offered Alain Carron the gig and Alain turned him down. And you know, his band was at it's peak then, Good Shit... "Between the Lines" Dixie Dregs Mr. Metheny. Hey that guy is a treasure. He has had such an amazing, diverse road of development. 80/81 and some of those in that era were sooo cool, and in the same breath John Mclaughlin(spelling, Sorry) His acoustic three Peice stuff in the early 90's was Magic. "Steps ahead" were also one of my favs. Then i got really into the Blues and gospel. Cheers

[Gulliver]

[quote]Originally posted by mats.olsson@rockfile.se: [b]There is one really fantastic fusion-esque band that, so far, only a selected few have heard. If you like bands like Dream Theater you'll probably going to love "Pain of Salvation".[/b][/quote] Okay, I am the one of those few "selected" ones! [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif[/img] [quote] [b]They have made 3 terrific albums and there's more to come, check them out! http://www.painofsalvation.com/ /Mats[/b][/quote] ... But still I think that they are strictly prog-metal band with just traces of fusion as it is the case with the majority of other prog-metal acts. They are undeniably good though and their last album ("The Perfect Element") is quite strong, and I agree - highly recommended listen to those into DT. As for "the best FUSION albums of all time"... My choices would be (in no particular order): (from the "classic" 70's) "Heavy Weather" - Weather Report "Birds of Fire" - Mahavishnu Orchestra "Romantic Warrior" - Return To Forever Recently surfaced "The Lost Trident Sessions" (by MO) also might be a good contender, IMO. (from the 80's) "Dregs of the Earth" - Dixie Dregs (is this fusion?...) "Gradually Going Tornado" - Bruford (same question...) "Metal Fatigue" - Allan Holdsworth Oh, and almost any album by Ozric Tentacles. (from the 90's) "Reality Check" - Tribal Tech "Another Lifetime" - Simon Phillips "Fission" - Jens Johansson "Suffer" - Gongzilla "Manifest Destiny" - Brand X (almost any album by Ozric Tentacles). (from the "new" 00's) "Deep" - Niacin ... and ANY album by Ozric Tentacles! (Yeah, I'm a big OT fan [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]). ... There are more, of course. I just couldn't listen TO ALL of them so far! (I think I'll be revisiting this my post for editing it quite often...) These are the ones I'm familiar with and/or have them in my collection. Why they are my personal favourites? Honestly I'm not so good at expressing all my thoughts and feelings regarding this subject in English... But I'll try. Outstanding (and may I say - unparalleled) musicianship is the main attraction to all these recordings. Just listen to them (if you didn't as of yet)! Vladislav This message has been edited by Gulliver on 10-08-2001 at 07:01 AM

[gmd]

-------"Hymn Of The Seventh Galaxy", by Return To Forever. If you don't like that album you might want to make an appointment with your friendly local hearing specialist... [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]

[TAZZ]

Tony Williams Lifetime - Believe It! Holdsworth's BEST! [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/cool.gif[/img]

[mrhappy_dup1]

I'd have to put "Believe IT" toward the top of my list too. I'd also throw in Billy Cobham's "Spectrum". ------------------ MH

[BP3]

Brand X - Masques, Moroccan Roll (w/ Phil Collins [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif[/img] ) Gong - Expresso (w/ Allan Holdsworth) Mahavishnu Orchestra - Visions of the Emerald Beyond (in addition to the others mentioned earlier) Happy The Man - Crafty Hands (sorta a prog/fusion blend) Pat Martino - Joyous Lake Weather Report - Black Market RTF - Where Have I Known You Before Jeff Beck - Wired Trilok Gurtu - Living Magic (f*%#ing incredible!!!)

[Lee Flier]

[quote]Originally posted by d gauss: [b]while i must admit to owning a couple of fusion records, i've always felt that fusion was akin to it's name...two things (rock/jazz) that weren't meant to go together and had to be forced. in the long run, i'd rather listen to ac/dc and louis armstrong on their own depending upon my mood... [/b][/quote] Wow, you took the words RIGHT out of my mouth. Picking the best fusion albums, for me, is kinda like choosing my favorite form of torture. [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] I love rock and I love jazz but put 'em together and it just sucks, IMNSHO. The thing that makes rock great is the combination of its simplicity and its bombast. The things that make jazz great are its technical complexity and its subtlety. Fusion seems to have all the complexity of jazz with few of its subtleties, and all the bombast of rock without its simplicity and raw emotion. Yuck. --Lee

[Mark Zeger]

I think I wore out the grooves on my copy of "Romantic Warrior". Lenny White's drumming on that record is underrated. RTF was at the peak of it's talent and creativity. They "jumped the shark" when Gayle Moran joined the band (and then Chick married her). The best fusion album of all time, though, is undoubtably "Heavy Weather". Burning talent and timeless compositions come together. Other albums worth mentioning: Pat Metheny Group (the white album) - this is when the Pat/Lyle "sound" first came together Herbie Hancock "Headhunters" Grover Washington Jr. "Mister Magic" - seriously funky rhythm section w/Eric Gale and Harvey Mason Brecker Brothers "Heavy Metal Be-Bop" And from the rock perspective of jazz/rock, I'll mention "Aja". For me, having such an immense wealth of jazz talent on one album makes it a fusion record. (No, that doesn't mean that Freddie Hubbard soloing on the Little River Band's "Reminiscing" make it a fusion tune.)

[sbrock1san.rr.com]

Jon-Luc Ponty- Live at Chene Park- More jazz than fusion....melodic and beautiful. Enigmatic Ocean and Mystical Adventures are great too. Dixie Dregs(Dregs) Industry Standard- Brilliant interplay among all the players and an accessible album despite the complexity of the compositions. Frank Gambale-Passages great melody writing one moment and some over-the-top shredding the next, you can hear his passion for guitar on this disc.

[spokenward]

for me it begins (and maybe ends) with Inner Mounting Flame - Mahavishnu Orchestra. I don't think anything else was quite so "fused". Tremendous energy, rawness and plain old volume meeting discipline and a bunch of new ideas. I loved the sound of that record on vinyl. They should probably remaster the CD on general principal. there was a Larry Coryell record called Offering that I spent a lot of time with as well. I was working at a radio station when Birds of Fire came out. It didn't hit me quite as hard as the first record. I programmed "Open Country Joy", but I think that I dropped it shortly after I heard a dj announce it as "a new one from The Mahashuvi Band".

[Botch.]

Several of you have mentioned RTF's "Romantic Warrior". I purchased that vinyl LP in 1980. On the way home a drunk driver sideswiped a guy on a motorcycle and it flew through my windshield. He survived fortunately and all I got was a bumped knee, and then I left for ROTC Summer Training the next day. When I returned four weeks later I found the album, still in the back seat, warped beyond playability. I STILL haven't heard that album, may have to pick up a copy this weekend! As far as "fusion", most of what I listen to could be considered fusion, and not just between rock and jazz. Moody Blues fused rock and classical, Dave Weckl seems to be fusing rock and big band, and of course Frank Zappa was the master stewmeister of fusion, you can hear six different styles within one verse sometimes. I tend to agree Bitch's Brew was the first, not so much that it used rock instruments but that the beat was straight eighths, no swing whatsoever.

[XNU8D]

[quote]Originally posted by botch@netutah.net: [b] and of course Frank Zappa was the master stewmeister of fusion, you can hear six different styles within one verse sometimes.... [/b][/quote] The Central Scrutinizer thanks you!!!

[AlChuck]

Fun thread... I remember writing a paper in a college jazz appreciation class in 1972 about "fusion." Many of my own favorites have been mentioned. But I thought it was strange to see that so many folks seem to really like Return to Forever's [i]Romantic Warrior[/i]. I always thought of that album when people dissed fusion for being nothing but a bunch of virtuosos playing as fast as they could, like it was an athletic event. I thought the compositions on that album were generally awful compared to the three earlier records. They really sounded like a bunch of really complex parts all glued together, rather than cohesive pieces of music that could draw you in like a good song does or a good story... I always felt that Corea, while an undeniably great artist, was sniffing after the money with that group. Like he observed all the money that McLaughlin and crew were making and decided, hey, I can play stuff like that -- hey Stanley, put down that upright, try this electric bass -- do you know any hot guitar players? I also found Corea's choice of synth tones to be obnoxious in the extreme, while players like Zawinul and Jan Hammer were getting rich, beautiful, new sounds left and right. I loved [i]Where Have I Known You Before?[/i] and [i]No Mystery[/i], but I just did not like [i]Romantic Warrior[/i] at all. And that was that lineup's last recording, too... This message has been edited by AlChuck on 10-05-2001 at 05:04 PM

[strat0124]

[quote]Originally posted by Tedster: [b]A couple that come to mind... Mahavishnu Orchestra...Birds of Fire Jean-Luc Ponty...Enigmatic Ocean There are tons, though.[/b][/quote] YES!!!!! The Dregs Unsung Heroes was fantastic as well. This message has been edited by strat0124 on 10-05-2001 at 01:16 PM

[Gulliver]

[quote]Originally posted by strat0124: [B] YES!!!!! The Dregs Unsung Heroes was fantastic as well. /B][/quote] Oh, Dregs again!?! And I doubted - did they play fusion... [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif[/img] Dixie Dregs (also The Dregs and Steve Morse Band) RULE!!! [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] (Ozric Tentacles too, btw. [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]) This message has been edited by Gulliver on 10-08-2001 at 07:06 AM

[SpeedSk8r]

My All time Favorites: Mike Stern - Any - but especially Upside Downside Dixie Dregs - What if (any really) Chick Correa - Electric Band - I love that track, Got a Match? Pat Metheny - Bright Sized Life (Jaco at his best!!) Jeff Beck - There and Back & Blow by Blow John Scofield - Blue Matter & Still Warm Al DiMeola - Scenario (did I just loose all credibility? :-) I really liked this one. He didn't over play and the compositions are great. Marc