Odd Chord symbol.......

[Slowly]

I just ran across a new chord notation, strange to me anyway. It notes the chord as a B, with a small circle floating next to the B, and then a seven. Bo7. But the 'o' is floating up off the line. What does that 'o' stand for? Whats would be the notes that make up this chord? Thanks. Casey

[marino]

To my knowledge, that's jazz lingo for the diminished seventh chord. That is, if you're gonna play it in its basic form, B, D, F, A flat. Another way to write it is B dim. or B dim.7.

[guestuserguestuser.com]

Originally posted by marino:

To my knowledge, that's jazz lingo for the diminished seventh chord. That is, if you're gonna play it in its basic form, B, D, F, A flat.

 

You are correct, sir! However, the '7' next to the superscripted circle is not necessary. Since the superscripted circle is never used to indicate anything except a diminished seventh, most jazz charts notate it simply as Bo (with the o "superscripted", i.e., on the 'upper half' of the symbol, as it were). There's no chance of confusing it with anything else. If you wanted to indicate a B dimished triad with no 7th, then you would write "B dim", but you hardly ever see that. You do sometimes see B dim7, but the superscripted circle is easier to write and to read!

 

There's a similar symbol, which is the same superscripted circle, but with a diagonal line through it, which means "half-diminished seventh". Which, if we go with the B example, would be B, D, F, and A.

 

[ 12-19-2001: Message edited by: GuestUser@GuestUser.com ]

[Slowly]

Thank you both. Another question, diminished chord are the third and fifth lowered a half step, right? And sustained is what? Do you have a lemerick so I can remember? Casey

[coyote]

I think you're referring to a *suspended* chord (C sus). Functionally it is normally used as a dominant - C sus is usually C7sus4. You are 'suspending' the 3rd up a half-step. The riff to Argent's "Hold Your Head Up" is a classic example of the suspended chord, fo the sound you can associate with it.

 

Originally posted by kcbass:

Thank you both. Another question, diminished chord are the third and fifth lowered a half step, right? And sustained is what? Do you have a lemerick so I can remember? Casey

[Postman]

Originally posted by GuestUser@GuestUser.com:

 

However, the '7' next to the circle is not necessary. Since the circle is never used to indicate anything except a diminished seventh, most jazz charts notate it simply as Bo

[ 12-19-2001: Message edited by: GuestUser@GuestUser.com ]

 

I'd even say that including the '7' is just plain misleading, because by the time the 7th is fully dimimshed, it's a 6th!

[guestuserguestuser.com]

Originally posted by Postman:

I'd even say that including the '7' is just plain misleading, because by the time the 7th is fully dimimshed, it's a 6th!

 

Well, you could look at it that way. But if you look at the scale, which, if the Bo were being used a a dominant flat 9, would be B,C,D,D#,F,F#,G#,A. So, you see, it has 8 notes instead of the usual 7. This presents a bit of a problem - does it have two 3rds, two 4ths, two 5ths, 6ths, or two 7ths? I'm not sure of the answer, all I can say is diminished scales are weird! But useful.

[joegerardi]

Couple of things:

The B with a circle superscripted is indeed a Bdim7. There is a similar symbol for the augmented chord which is a triangle. The 7th is included in these, otherwise they are a 6th chord. (e.g. - C E A is a C6th. See bottom paragraph.)

 

A suspended chord can only be called that if the 4th (or whatever the note of the suspension) is suspended from the previous chord. Any suspension must be just that: Suspended from the previous chord.

 

If you just have a non-harmonic tone in the chord, (i.e. not of the "traditional" root-third-fifth structure of a chord) that is not a suspension, that's an appoggiatura.

[Bucktunes]

Originally posted by joegerardi:

There is a similar symbol for the augmented chord which is a triangle. The 7th is included in these, otherwise they are a 6th chord. (e.g. - C E A is a C6th. See bottom paragraph.)

 

Wait a minute.. Every lead sheet I've read uses a triangle to indicate a major seventh chord. An augmented chord is indicated by a plus sign. (eg. C+7 which is spelled C E G# Bb)

 

A suspended chord can only be called that if the 4th (or whatever the note of the suspension) is suspended from the previous chord. Any suspension must be just that: Suspended from the previous chord.

 

I think you and I had different teachers! AFAIK, a "sus" chord simply indicates that the fourth is substituting for the third of the chord. The third is omitted from the chord, as opposed to a chord that implies or names specific extensions. (eg. Cadd9, G7(13) )

 

If you just have a non-harmonic tone in the chord, (i.e. not of the "traditional" root-third-fifth structure of a chord) that is not a suspension, that's an appoggiatura.

 

Or an extension, if the extra note is harmonically "legal".

 

Peace all,

Steve

[guestuserguestuser.com]

Originally posted by joegerardi:

Couple of things:

The B with a circle superscripted is indeed a Bdim7. There is a similar symbol for the augmented chord which is a triangle. The 7th is included in these, otherwise they are a 6th chord. (e.g. - C E A is a C6th. See bottom paragraph.)

 

Does that triangle for an aug chord come from classical theory, baroque maybe? Because in jazz, aug chords are never written that way. Some people use the + symbol to mean aug, but I personaly don't approve of that, becuase it can also mean other things, depending on where you put it. I prefer to write out 'aug' in full (not superscripted). A lot of people use +7 (superscripted) to mean an aug 7, which is ok, I guess, but definitely not +9 superscripted, because some people use +9 to mean sharp nine. The best course of action, in my opinion is to completely avoid things like + signs, triangles and squares, because different people use them for different things, resulting in an un-standardized mess. The superscripted circle used for dim7 is ok, becuase the circle never gets used for anything else, so it's clear. Same for the circle with a slash through it.

 

A suspended chord can only be called that if the 4th (or whatever the note of the suspension) is suspended from the previous chord. Any suspension must be just that: Suspended from the previous chord.

 

Maybe in classical music, but not in jazz. In jazz, it just means a chord with a 4 instead of a 3.

 

If you just have a non-harmonic tone in the chord, (i.e. not of the "traditional" root-third-fifth structure of a chord) that is not a suspension, that's an appoggiatura.

 

Again, you're talking classical theory. Jazz theory views this stuff a bit differently. In jazz, it could be an appogiatura, if it resolves. Or it could be a substitution. For instance, C, E, and A, in jazz, is a "6 for 5 substitution".

 

[ 12-19-2001: Message edited by: GuestUser@GuestUser.com ]

[Byrdman]

Originally posted by joegerardi:

Couple of things:

 

 

A suspended chord can only be called that if the 4th (or whatever the note of the suspension) is suspended from the previous chord. Any suspension must be just that: Suspended from the previous chord.

 

If you just have a non-harmonic tone in the chord, (i.e. not of the "traditional" root-third-fifth structure of a chord) that is not a suspension, that's an appoggiatura.

 

sus chords don't really correspond to suspensions in classical music. In jazz they are just altered chords.

 

In a sus4 the chord is altered by sharpening the major third (so its an augmented third rather than the fourth - don't know if this is important)The sus2 chord is alterred by lowering the minor third a semitone (so Csus2 is CDGBflat).

[Shiver]

...wait a minute....all my heavy metal buddies say a suspended chord is just one that you (hiccup!...burp....) hold on to for a bit....(hiccup.....)....was that just drunken gibberish?

 

evrybudy happeee hollidaze,

shiver