Any Mac G4 or CD-RW advice?

[KenElevenShadows]

Hey! In the next few weeks, I'm gonna pop for a G4, giving my venerable 1994 Win95 PeeSee a much-needed break!

 

I am probably going to be running Digi001, but could also use the usual peripherals, such as a CD-RW. Does anyone have any advice on what a good CD-RW would be to get with a G4? I also need something that copies existing CDs (my own, so don't worry!) easily. Any suggestions? Mastering software?

 

I am probably getting Digi001 and a second HD. I am considering having the system created by a place called Wave Digital (they were at AES http://www.wavedigital.com). However, other suggestions on where to get a music computer system are of course greatly appreciated!

 

And finally, I am probably going to get something like a 466MHz G4 with at least 192 MG RAM. I am assuming that these computers are still OS 9 and not OS 10 (X)? I don't think I can afford a dual processing systtem, but are there any comments on these? Is the music software starting to catch up to the dual systems or taking advantage of OS X?

 

Thanks! The world of Mac computers is a very new one to me, and any advice is certainly welcome and appreciated!

 

 

 

------------------

Ken/Eleven Shadows/d i t h er/nectar

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

music*travel photos*tibet*lots of stuff

"Sangsara" "Irian Jaya" & d i t h er CDs available!

http://www.elevenshadows.com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Marvster]

Sounds like you're putting together a great system. My advice, FWIW:

 

1) I'm pretty sure Macs are still shipping with OS9 (at least for the next 20 days or so).

2) Plan on at least 256MB of RAM rather than 192MB, as Apple operating systems generally get more bloated as they go along. RAM is often the place people skimp on purchase and usually the first place they spend money when they realize their computer isn't working like they think it should.

3) Don't know how fast software companies are picking up the dual processor support, but before you spring for it ask yourself what kind of recording you do and how important the mondo speed/processing power really is. Are you going to be doing lots of off-line processing/rendering? Running tons of plug-ins? Trying to use soft synths and samplers simultaneously with multitrack recording and playback?

4) I use a 12x10x32 Que!Fire CD-R/RW (FireWire, obviously) and it's been awesome. Comes with an LE version of Toast, it's quiet and super fast, and it hasn't burned a single coaster.

 

Have fun!

 

Marv

 

This message has been edited by Marvster on 03-04-2001 at 01:24 PM

[Valkyrie Sound]

You are in luck! I JUST got my new G4 this week after

much research....

 

1. The CDR drive... You should have the option of getting one of the

Sony CDR INTERNAL drives from an authorized apple retailer.

Otherwise.... Tascam makes a great package called the CDR-Pro.

It is a external 8x write drive that comes with a SCSI to PCI

adapter card, and copies of ADAPTEC JAM and Toast (both great

programs for copying and backing uo your stuuf).

The package is great... add in the SCSI card and software

it comes with and I've found it to be a great value.

The SCSI card would also let you use any other

internal or external drives you may have from your old system.

 

2. I've never used wavedigital before and I don't know of any

other companies that offer complete systems right now but....

 

If you buy your own computer and audio hardware yourself

you'll probably save some $. Setting up an audio system

can be difficult at times but what you learn will help

you when the system goes down or when you need to expand it.

Knowledge is power.....

 

3. I've got a dual 533 with OS 9.1. No, the audio software folks don't

seem to be using the duals yet but I bought the dual for the

future upgrades (ya can't add them later and they work nice with Photoshop right now). I spent a little more on the dual processor and less on extra drives.... I can always buy extra drives later. I can't add a processor.

 

You say you are new to MACs?

I'm "bi" (I use both). http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

I must say it is MUCH less difficult

to set-up an audio system on a MAC.

Best of luck...

 

Ms. Valky

[KHAN]

>>>>If you buy your own computer and audio hardware yourself

you'll probably save some $. Setting up an audio system

can be difficult at times but what you learn will help

you when the system goes down or when you need to expand it.

Knowledge is power.....

---------------------------------------------------

Great advice....

 

>>>>I've got a dual 533 with OS 9.1. No, the audio software folks don't

seem to be using the duals yet but I bought the dual for the

future upgrades

----------------------------------------------------

When the audio programs are ported to OSX not only will they take advantage of duel processors, but plug-ins will be alti-vec optimized...That should really scream!

 

>>>>I'm "bi" (I use both).

------------------------------------------------------

http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/eek.gif

 

DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES HAVE ANYONE ELSE INSTALL RAM FOR YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

This is one place you will be ripped-off beyond belief.

RAM is cheap right now (around $100 for 256 megs).If you get one of the new G4's make sure you get the PC133 chips...

Here's a link for cheap RAM(click on "RAM WATCH" at the bottom of the page). Good Luck...

 

http://www.macresource.com/

[KHAN]

To who it may concern....

 

G4 : 128megs ram $66

......: 256megs ram $160

 

http://www.memorytogo.com/

[Nika]

Originally posted by valkyriesound:

2. I've never used wavedigital before and I don't know of any

other companies that offer complete systems right now but....

 

 

Sweetwater does custom configurations of G4 turnkey recording systems and then offers lifetime technical support on the system as well. If you're skittish give them a call.

 

Nika.

[Valkyrie Sound]

Originally posted by KHAN:

To who it may concern....

 

G4 : 128megs ram $66

......: 256megs ram $160

 

http://www.memorytogo.com/

 

Hey Khan.... You've bought memory from Memorytogo?

Are they a good company? Any customer service problems?

Have you ever recieved any bad ram from them?

I'm looking for a new place to buy my ram...

 

Do you know what brand of memory they are selling?

They don't say on their site...

 

Thanks!

Valky

[KHAN]

Hi Valky. I've never bought there, but I think I am going to go for the 256 chip. I have a buddy who is a real "MacAddict" and he is comfortable buying from anyone listed on the MacResource page.

My guess is that the Ram listed there is PC100, so it won't be as fast as the 133 for the new machines, but I'll check into it.

His experience , all things being equal(specs wise) is "Ram is Ram"

[KenElevenShadows]

First of all, thank you so much for everyone who has been responding so far! Your advice is all very helpful, and I have been writing down everything mentioned here!

 

>>>>If you buy your own computer and audio hardware yourself

you'll probably save some $. Setting up an audio system

can be difficult at times but what you learn will help

you when the system goes down or when you need to expand it.

Knowledge is power.....

---------------------------------------------------

 

This is definitely great advice. I am really very insecure about my abilities with -- well, doing just about anything with a computer. Now, I realize that a lot of the problems I've encountered have to do with an unstable Win95 Version "A" operating system, but I've had more goofy problems than you can shake a joystick at. If we are talking about a couple of hundred dollars at most to purchase a turnkey system, I'm willing to pay this just to save in headaches, anxiety, and therapy bills!

 

I'd like to know if the CD-RWs mentioned here (The Sony CD-R internal, the Tascam CDR-Pro, or the Que!Fire Firewire CD-RW) all have the ability to easily copy other CDs without having to load the audio on to the HD. I've never had a CD-RW before, and just want to make sure! Thanks!

 

------------------

Ken/Eleven Shadows/d i t h er/nectar

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

music*travel photos*tibet*lots of stuff

"Sangsara" "Irian Jaya" & d i t h er CDs available!

http://www.elevenshadows.com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[KenElevenShadows]

In the event that anyone's interested, here are some of the specs in the aforementioned basic Digi001 Mac G4 system from wavedigital.com (and no, I don't work for them...).

 

466MHz with 192 MB RAM (prolly get 256 MHz instead), CD-RW 8x4x32 included, Apple Pro Keyboard and Optical Mouse, two 30GB Ultra ATA-66 7200rpm. I'll check into the Sweetwater turnkey system as well. Thanks again!

 

------------------

Ken/Eleven Shadows/d i t h er/nectar

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

music*travel photos*tibet*lots of stuff

"Sangsara" "Irian Jaya" & d i t h er CDs available!

http://www.elevenshadows.com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Peff]

I've been shopping for a new CD-R/RW recently. Everyone I know seems to recommend the QPS Que!Fire series of Firewire devices and also recommended is Toast 5 - apparently some people have had firewire problems with Toast 4. The Firewire drive will work on both my MP G4/450 and my PB G4/500 :-)

 

 

http://www.qps-inc.com/cgi-bin/display?&tm=products

 

QPS has released the 16x burner however, Apple has not issued any compatability statement about the 16x with their iBurn software. The 8x and 12x Que!Fire drives are on the 3rd Party compatability list.

[Beagle1]

Regarding the 466mhz G4...you might want to think about going for the next step up (533mhz single processor) if you can afford it. It's not much more money but in addition to the faster CPU you get a much better video card (NVidia GForce2 with 32mb) and a faster hard drive (40gb 7200 rpm; the 30gb drive on the 466 is listed at 5400 rpm). BTW, all the new G4's come with a built-in CD-RW so no need to buy an external one.

 

Dual vs. single CPU...some music apps already support dual processors even under MacOS 9. Logic Audio can use the second CPU for its audio engine thus freeing up the first CPU for system-related tasks. Thus, you can load down the audio engine with plug-ins but still get quick screen redraws. Don't know about Cubase and MOTU but I would bet they'll have dual CPU support very soon if not already. Multi-processor support under OS X should be awesome.

 

RAM...don't buy extra RAM from Apple as they will charge you at least double for what you can get it for elsewhere. I always buy RAM from Data Memory Systems (www.datamem.com) and they're great. Currently they have PC133 DIMMs for the new G4s at $39 (128MB) and $74 (256MB).

[gregor]

I have G4 with Digi001 and it works like a charm. The new machines come with CD-RW or even the "superdrive" which is CD RW and DVD R/W if you want to get into DVD authoring. Apple also have a really cool piece of DVD authoring software coming out for around $1k which is really going to heat up the DVD market.

[KenElevenShadows]

>> Regarding the 466mhz G4...you might want to think about going for the next step up(533mhz single processor) if you can afford it. It's not much more money but in addition to the faster CPU you get a much better video card (NVidia GForce2 with 32mb) and a faster hard drive (40gb 7200 rpm; the 30gb drive on the 466 is listed at 5400 rpm). BTW, all the new G4's come with a built-in CD-RW so no need to buy an external one.>>

 

If I remember correctly, the 533MHz is a lot more. I'm not looking for an ultra-fast computer so much as I am looking for something that is intuitive and has rock-solid performance. Not much need for lots of plug-ins or multitracking, mostly editing. In light of this, do you think that I really need the video card, or should the 466MHz be enough?

 

The computer that I had previously (Micron PC Win95 with Saw+), I've used successfully since about 1995, and honestly, I'd probably keep using it if it weren't giving me such problems. My needs are pretty meager, but since I'm going to buy a computer, it may as well be a good one! Sadly, I also really have to keep the cost down as well. I was trying to keep the cost under $2500, but it looks like I may have to break that and go up a little bit.

 

I really appreciate all the expertise that everyone has shared so far.

[Rader Ranch]

Hey Ken... i guess one of the main selling points for going mac has always been the ability and ease of doing it yourself...i.e. installing cards, ram, cpu upgrades whatever...so depending on what kind of prices the places that are selling complete music systems are giviing you, this may be an instance where you really do wanna go the cheaper route, getting the best prices for gear a,b,c...and 'assembling' it yourself.

 

a number of places ( www.maczone.com pops to mind 1st) are selling diff. G4's w/256 RAM added for 'free', on top of the 128 they come stock with. or you can buy direct from the apple store online and save money configuring it yourself..like getting a 30 gig system drive instead of 40, eliminating the 56k modem (depending on how you connect to the internet), getting the cheaper video card etc. and another consideration could be to grab one of the good deals that's out there now on last years models, like a DP (dual processor, not digital performer ;-) 450 or 500, keeping in mind how you may want to upgrade in the future...will 1 less pci slot and a slightly slower bus speed mean anything to you?

 

www.ramjet.com has 256DIMMS for $99 for last years G4's...$119 for the newer ones.

 

check www.pricescan.com to find the cheapest ATA drives for your 2nd audio drive.

 

maybe someone else knows where to find the best price for the 001 system specifically...i don't...

 

congrats on the desicion to go mac! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif ...i'm sure you'll have no problems from here on out http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/eek.gif

[KenElevenShadows]

Do you feel that the optimization that some of these companies perform (ooptimizing the G4 for Digi001) is worth it? I am really fumbly with computers, and have really torn my hair out with that antiquated computer, which has really left a bad taste in my mouth for fixing or installing anything. I cannot believe that Win95 sucks as bad as it does...if I tried to design something that Sucked Supreme, I could not do as good of a job as Microsoft has.

 

Is installing things like HDs and soundcards much easier on a Mac? Is it something that someone who has practically no experience with a Mac can do without spending the entire weekend? The very thought of trying to fix my two failing soundcards, the peripherals (scanners, etc.) and all the other garbage just makes my blood boil with thoughts of completely wasted weekends with nothing accomplished, then spending hundreds of dollars to have a tech take a look at it just to get lame fixes that fail shortly thereafter.

 

I really want to just plug the damn thing in and go. If it's truly easy, I'll consider it, but otherwise, I've literally wasted dozens and dozens of hours of my time not accomplishing anything except losing sleep and time and money.

[Rader Ranch]

Originally posted by Ken/Eleven Shadows:

Do you feel that the optimization that some of these companies perform (ooptimizing the G4 for Digi001) is worth it?

 

i've never gone that route, and i'm no super-tech either...which brings me to...

 

Is installing things like HDs and soundcards much easier on a Mac?[/b]

 

compared to an old Win95 machine? absolutely! for instance, put the HD in, turn the mac on, run drive setup that comes w/apple os, you can even just initialize instead of low level format (not that i'd recommend that, but it does work) and there your drive is, on the desktop ready to go. the audio card may require an extension or control panel (i use a tdm system), both very easy things to find/accomplish...and G4's are super clean on the inside...very easy to understand and work on. just don't work up a carpetfull of static electricity, zap something, and then expect it to work right http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif

 

Is it something that someone who has practically no experience with a Mac can do without spending the entire weekend?[/b]

 

i'd certainly think your chances are way better than %90....closer to %100 if you just consider the digi hardware/software.

 

The very thought of trying to fix my two failing soundcards, the peripherals (scanners, etc.) and all the other garbage just makes my blood boil with thoughts of completely wasted weekends with nothing accomplished, then spending hundreds of dollars to have a tech take a look at it just to get lame fixes that fail shortly thereafter. If it's truly easy, I'll consider it, but otherwise, I've literally wasted dozens and dozens of hours of my time not accomplishing anything except losing sleep and time and money. [/b]

 

one thing to keep in mind is that you'll have free digi tech (phone) support for a year anyways (unless that's just for tdm systems???? but that would be a pretty lame thing to do), and regardless, the DUC (digi user conference) is a great source on the web of info and both official and unofficial tech support.

 

of course there can always be problems...(stating the obvious is a particular talent of mine), but i would submit that your chances of pulling your hair out for hours is very small, and for an entire weekend almost nil.

 

oh, also don't forget that this years macs all come with a CD-RW drive (except for the 733Mhz , which it sounds ike you don't want anyways)....last years didn't ...can be an important cost factor...

 

 

 

This message has been edited by Rader Ranch on 03-05-2001 at 04:52 PM

[KenElevenShadows]

I figured people may be interested to know this additional information. So far, http://www.apple.com seems to be actually the cheapest (this is by no means an exhaustive search, but I have searched MacZone and MacMall), and you can configure your computer somewhat on the website itself. What seems rather curious so far is that my educator's discount doesn't seem to count for much anywhere -- it seems to cost the same amount regardless!

 

Anyway, I can get the 466MHz with the NIV graphics card at the Apple site, so I am not really stuck with the other video card -- at least on that site. It definitely seems more cost-effective to go and buy your own RAM rather than letting anyone else plop it in for you. The difference is usually 40%, a fairly significant difference. It's also really amazing how many companies do not return their emails within two days, let alone five.

 

Anyway, I'll continue searching, but those are my observations so far.

 

-Ken/Eleven Shadows/d i t h er/Nectar

http://www.elevenshadows.com

[Beagle1]

<>

 

You're right, Apple's educator discounts are definitely not what they used to be. Still, you can save anywhere from $100-200 (depending on model) which will buy a lot of RAM these days. Educational price on 466mhz G4 is $1597 vs. normal price of $1699.