I have been working in PTLE all the time (and I love the software) but I start being seriously limited by the Digi 002 features. So I am setting for a small revolution: disposing Digi 002 and going for Lynx 22 with LS-AES which would take a perfect care of my 4 channels of Mytek and Millennia and full recording in 96 kHz. I must only change the software platform. I was suggested Nuendo as the best and even better than PT for audio recording and editing (I am not much interested in MIDI, VST instruments etc., just audio).
Well, I was browsing through it for a while and found that apart from some interesting things it lacks few basic , simple, transparent essential features which are present in PT and one would expect everywhere (like a simple overview at glance at any time for all tracks - pan, I/O, sends, inserts - one has to make a special research to find out about each of them. Click and play from the given point within a track does not work - you have to click outside the track. The waveforms are only black, plugin windows disappear etc. etc. Plus there is a big set of problems and bugs one can see in Nuendo forum).
It looks however interesting, I am not saying I would not go for it. Only I would like to ask - is it REALLY a stable, good, recommendable platform for a serious, professional acoustic music recording and editing , which can bring excellent results and user´s full comfort and satisfaction without feeling desperately homesick for ProTools ?
Or any other good options ? (no Logic, please)

Thanks,

Ivo

Hello Ivo,

I would imagine your budget doesn't call for a serious PT upgrade, at the very least HD1 with the 192. That would be sweet...

Have you looked into Digital Performer 4.1.2 with the 828 MKII? I been using both for months and its been extremely stable on my end. Actually the program is very similar to PT since you're already familiar with it so you won't be in the dark as you probably be with Logic... as good as it is too.

My 2 cents...

Chris

In a word, yes.

It's just a question of preference and habit. If you've only ever used PT then it's easy to rant and rail about how other apps don't do things right.

As someone who uses Nuendo every day, I can find lots of things PT doesnt do 'right'

Just look at the feature set and decide if it does everything you need it to do. It's a program which is very easy to learn.

Sounds good too

You mean a "way" like Buddhism? Well, using Nuendo IS kind of a religious experience.

Nuendo is certainly a professional DAW. The things you mentioned CAN be done with Nuendo -- you just have to learn how to use it. The user interface is very flexible and customizable. When it comes to editing, the design can only be described as brilliant. If you can think of it, Nuendo can do it.

Nuendo 2.0 had a lot of bugs when it came out, but Steinberg has done a great job of fixing them.

The real issue is business -- do you need the Pro Tools "brand name" to get clients?

As I've said elsewhere, I still own an HD system, but choose to use Nuendo. The HD is the diploma on the wall that lets me be in the "take me seriously" club, but Nuendo is the platform I work in. It is simply a much more powerful production platform.

There are several overhauls I would love to see- I miss the nested grouping features of PT and I would like to see a copy mix to sends feature. But for everything else, I'm as happy as could be working in Nuendo. Just don't try to use it the same way or you'll hate it. It just works different and you have to embrace that to get the most out of it.

Just do one vocal session with complicated rides and comping and you will be sold.

Record all your takes stacked, and then open up the lanes so you can see them all. The bottom take is what will be playing back.

Now use the pointer to swipe around all of them so they will be selected. Big difference number one is that you can grab big bunches of objects across multiple tracks by dragging around them, just like everywhere else in a computer except PT.

Now hit play. As it plays, hold down alt and click wherever you want to cut regions into phrases for trying alternate takes. All the regions will cut since they are selected.

Now go back to the top. As you get to a phrase you want to try another take for, get your mute tool and mute the take you are hearing. The one above it will play for that phrase. Keep on going.

Was a take too loud or quiet, but the tone was good? Just grab the middle top handle of the region and turn the volume up or down. Was a phrase great but a word too loud? Slice the word into a region (remember alt+click is cut) and turn the volume down. How about loud t's and s's? Same thing.

In no time at all you have a comped vocal with serious volume rides.

I won't work any other way.

I am someone who has never used Nuendo and that was a GREAT explanation of an obviously cool way to work. Thanks!

popStAr

Thanks for nice hints. I am doing the revolutionary switch because Digi 002 limited features are cutting my wings. But it seems I may not regret the step even software-wise in the end

Here's a copy of a post I did on the Nuendo Forum.

I thought I would run a little test tonight to see what i could get out of my cheap little mobile Athlon 2500+ machine running at 2.5 ghz.

I heard good things about the Q-metric plug-in, not realizing I had it. So I loaded a session up with the following:
32 channels with Q-metric, all bands enabled and VST dynamics on all channel.

4 Instances of Voxengo pristine with medium to long halls.

2 PSP48 delays

A lexicon Pantheon reverb

An Albino, V-Sation and Cheezemachine Virtual instruments.

And played back 32 channels of audio with long fades and crossfades.

Not a problem, and the performance is only at 40%

Nuendo Friggin' rocks.

As a fellow Mytek user, and recorder of, among other styles, acoustic, there are many choices in software that work and work well. Samplitude has a lot of supporters. SAWStudio just released a
Basic" version. Vegas is easy and fast. Sonar, though it has every feature under the sun, is used by many.

I'm a fan of Lynx but I feel that their strong point is their converters. If you are already using Myteks, consider something from the RME HDSP line, with their powerful "Totalmix" applet.

Bill

I think as far as editing and mixing Nuendo is the best thing,Rob has put some really good points[I use Logic ]and really thinking on a new computer only for recording,and Nuendo on it.I also miss that feature [copy mix to aux]I was asking this long time ago to any of Emagic rep.that I had contact with.I think this is really important thing when you have-record a band[even single]artist on your studio.!
The best thing is find someone that has the program and knows how to work[as I did]and you will see the power.
Pt is nice as Rob said is a ticket for business ,but if you want something to finish a job[not a huge investment] than Nuendo is a choice.!

I am one of the Loudmouth users in the Nuendo Forum.

There have been some MAJOR changes as of late to Steiny. They were bought by Pinnacle.
At first this seemed to be very bad news.

Let me say this first...i am hard to please, and expect a lot out of my DAW company.

Lately, the updates have been coming at a staggering rate, the communication has improved 100000%.

I am still using Nuendo V1.6.1. I am holding out for a bit. I love the way it works, its easy, intuitive and my system is uncrashable.
I do many session at 96K and am suprised at my high track counts.

Most of my 44.1 session hit the 80 track count and my P4 1.8 processor barely blinks.

Nuendo has been picked by many Pro's for their home studios (See Elliot Schiners 5.1 mixing suite). Its proven that is a formidable force in the industry...it was chosen to mix Queens 5.1 of A night at the opera, and the Grammy award winning Dixie Chick record from 2 years ago was done on nuendo.

Protools is definatly the giant in the industry. And it has MANY cool tools (Beat Detective, for one).

But i love working in nuendo and when its married to a couple of UAD1 Cards....WATCH OUT!

I am waiting by the sidelines to see the MAJOR overhauls that N2 has coming. They also robbed me of features that i love in N1...like a MONO button on the master fader. Why they removed it in N2 is just silly. Plus a few others.

BUT they are really trying to improve it and make it unbeatable.

If you have any Nuendo questions feel free to email me directly. I have helped many folk get into Nuendo and will try to answer any questions you may have.

Dennis

Here's another fly in the ointment...

Since you are looking at Nuendo...
...you should do yourself a favor and also take a look at Samplitude 7.2 before making a final decision.

Sam 7 will probably also feel different than PTLE...and/or Nuendo...
...but it just might feel right to you...
...and it's not as $$$ as Nuendo.

The audio engine in Sam 7 is as good as any of the other HQ DAW apps out there.

http://www.samplitude.com

Yes, I looked at samplitude and it looks very very nice and solid - I like the straight view: the basic track track features and straight lines for recording. Like ProTools. BUT still I will probably end with Nuendo from a simple reason: there is no Samplitude guru around, whereas I have an excellent Nuendo Guru available. No manual can substitute simple straight personal interactive instructions. I hate to dig into endless dry manuals ... It takes painful ages (which I would prefer to spend concentrated on pure music) whereas through a "Guru´s grace" you can master everything in very short enjoyable time.

Nuendo does have a very comprehensive help section.

cheers
john

I too have been studying the Nuendo, and other competitors include Samplitude and Pyramix. Samplitude has a demo, so I plan to download that this weekend and mess with it. Too bad Nuendo has no demo. I have seen some say that Cubase is basically identical to Nuendo except for a very few features that are nealy unnecessary.

Pyramix looks very futuristic, complex, and is non-native, though much cheaper than PTHD/etc. Certainly it's main attraction is the DSD work--looks too complex to mess with for doing things at 192 and under.

Best regards,

Kurt T.
Austin

Nuendo with a UAD just plain rocks. I use both PT and Nuendo for work, depending on what the project calls for. My home studio is N2 all the way. That said, there ARE a few PT things I miss, mostly internal bussing and routing type things, but the recording and editing in Nuendo are top notch. The sonics ,to me anyway, are better in Nuendo as well. I can actually be happy with an "in the box" mix. Never could say that about PT, although HD has immensly improved on that front.

Is there anybody, who do post-production using Nuendo system (I mean, sound design for movies, ADR, foley and so on). I am asking this, because I wonder if there are special tools for it (VocAlign, Serato etc.).
Thanks
kubapk

Well...a personal "guru"...

....now how can a good manual and very decent online support forums top that!!!

There are MANY folks using it for just that.
There is a seperate forum for it as well. I dont have the link, but should be very easy to find.

Oh, as for the mix in the box quote. Yeah i love it and the mastering engineers i send stuff to always complement me on the sonics.

If you go nuendo, get the Hammerfall (RME) audio cards. THey are a must have!

Dennis

Nuendo forum at http://forum.nuendo.com/cgi-bin/nuendo.com/Ultimate.cgi
for users, and there is a great Nuendo Post forum at http://pub19.bravenet.com/forum/show.php

It is a superb tool. The differences between SX & Nuendo are many, including a lot more import/export options such as AES31, OMF etc.

I couldn't find it there. what's the form name or exact link

I could not find it either ...

The latest version of Cubase is completely new and is bascially Nuendo with some video capabilities greyed out. It has the same engine, and 90% of what Nuendo does and the way it looks is the same. One great feature which Pro Tools lacks is Score. Being able to play a keyboard, or bass part on your midi keyboard, and have the notes transcribed is nice. There is also the drum map which is great if you have a small studio and don’t record real drums. The LM4 II has 24 bit sampled kits that are very acceptable.

If you get Cubase SX 2 or Nuendo you still need to get a UAD or Powercore since the plug ins that come with Steinberg is only acceptable. I actually have two UAD cards in my system so I have enough power for the Cambridge EQ, 1176, and LA2 compressors and their latest Dream verb. The benefit of Pro Tools is there are more high end plug ins you can buy (though you many not need them) and of course the name, which may help in getting clients in. Still Cubase is $699 and two UAD or Power Core Cards will be around $1,300. Still a lot cheaper than Pro Tools and you still get the high end plug ins. With a Pent IV 2.8 and a gig of ram, you can also get the Waves Platinum which many Pro Tool users use. The quality of the effects are the same with Pro Tools and the version for Nuendo/Cubase, but a lot cheaper.

I'm using Nuendo 2.1.2. Totally stable app

The vocal comping/editing approach mentioned before, once u start working that way - theres no going back.

Also, you have individual region/file process HISTORY, allows you to really go crazy with plug-ins and processing, up to the individual sound in a word, and come back to redo/undo any time.

MIDI implementation is the best; two things that are crucial for me are multi-part piano edit (multi-color) view, where i do orchestration and midi recording on all instruments almost simultaneously, and TIME WARP, for changing the beat/bar position freely on a time line to fit your free-meter playing, indispensable for scoring!!!

i cross-graded from SX last yr, it wasnt that stable and smooth.

If you are looking for a digital razorblade primarily, and focus on mixing and editing music rather than creating it, I would give vegas a really serious tryout. Its missing a lot of the song creation features of cubase/nuendo, but the editing will blow your mind. I hear its great for video too, but I wouldnt really know

youve got lots of alternatives, dont be too quick to dismiss nuendo unless it truly goes against your flow. Its not my flow either, but a lot of people get along ok on that app

I've been using Nuendo for more than 3 years and it's design and workflow still amazes me. I've also been using Pro Tools for nearly 10 years but it still pisses me off.

Just finished mixing an album on an HD system last night, actually. It's dumb, dated software compared to Nuendo. Pro Tools 5.x does have a few advantages but IMO they're overshadowed by some design decisions that were made a very long time ago.

Sonically, in terms of mixing, I still think Nuendo is a little better but I don't like mixing with either one. The sound just isn't there for the kind of stuff I do. At least Nuendo is virtually impossible to clip, and it's delay compensation solves a lot of problems that PT has, but either one basically sucks to mix on.

Editing and comp'ing audio though, Nuendo is just so much faster and more intuitive. It certainly has the economic advantage as well, and on the right computer is every bit as stable as a good PT system is.

The only real problem I come across is converting projects to and from PT systems. It's a time sucking pain in the ass to do properly (same length bwav files), but it definitely works and I've never had a technical problem moving things back and forth.

Kevin

Theer's a program that you can buy that will convert Pt sessions to the TL format, so you can open them in Nuendo. It will actually allow you to convert a MAC pro-tools sesison on a PC to a Nuendo PC file.
Also. If your doinf alot of Pro-Tools transfers, get Digitranslator for PT's. This will allow you to export the session as an OMF, and then you don't have huge Wave files to import. Just the regions.

The name of the program for pC is MM-EDL

I would desperately need some tool for transfering PT sessions to Nuendo ! Today I spent half day transfering a session through wav duplicate /export/import. Terrible.
What is Digi Translator ? When installing PT 6.2.2 there is an option to install DigiTranslator, I do it, but still the export option to OMPF is not working.
Any advice please ? I have so many sessios to transfer to Nuendo . Thanks a lot

Well, after paying for the sofwtare and hardware, digi still wants another $500,- to unlock the built in digi translator menu.

Yes, another money for MP3 export option etc. Good we do not have to pay also for "record enable" or "import audio track option" ....
One of the reasons I say good buy to PT ...

What routing or bussing features do you mean?

Lawrence

The Synthax team (the US distributors for Samplitude and RME) are very helpful if you have issues with Samplitude. Personally, I find the audio engine in Samp to sound as good if not better than any DAW out there.

Oh, just nsome of the ways PT lets you assign tracks to a buss, and make that buss an input to another track, routing things around in the program etc. Not a big deal really, just if you are used to working in PT, you have to re-think a few of your methods. Overall, Nuendo is still the more flexible program. To me anyway.

May I ask you where you found it then? Q-Metric is not bundled with Nuendo, and 32 examples with 4 PristineSpace at only 40% CPU sounds to me like you are actually using the Q plugin, not Q-Metric.

Sorry, but I don't believe those figures, and I love my Nuendo rig. I also know how hard PS hits the CPU, and Q-Metric is no slouch either. 32?

I agree. I haven't found anything I can't do routing wise in Nuendo. For me one of the best things is the flexibility of the interface. Moving tracks around and showing and/or hiding channels in the mixer is great.

Keep in mind when quoting or looking at estimates of cpu usage vs. plugs loaded that the latency setting has a lot to do with that. For instance because I monitor through an outboard mixer I keep the latency very, very high. 2048 mb buffer and over one second latency. A song that's being mixed with multiple instances of plugs and runs at 80% cpu usage would be unplayable at, say a 128 mb buffer / 15ms latency.

So... when someone says "I got 32 xyz plugs loaded and my cpu is @ 40%..." the real question to ask is "what latency are you running?"

Stereo vs. mono would also apply. Of course I can run a lot more (for instance) mono RenComps across mono tracks than I could run the stereo version across stereo tracks. There ya go.

Bottom line, some people who say that native isn't ready for prime time haven't really experienced what some of here have, complitcated multi-track mixes with multiple plugs being powered only by the computer cpu. Other have experienced that and found that native does not deliver the power they require.

I love Nuendo/Cubase. For the money I believe these apps to be the best value for the money in DAW's on the market.

Lawrence

Yes, you are right about the q-metric. It was the Q plug-in. Sorry.

The rest is true.

What kind of computer are yopu running. because I know there are issues with plug-ins spiking on the Intels.
I have 2500XP+ running at 2.5 ghz.Which in the way they label their processors would be higher than a 3ghz Intel compatible.

I'll check the session again today, and get back.

You are correct. I use the highest latency settings, because I am mixing, so who cares about latency at that point.
I posted before that i am now getting better mixes at home on my athlon XP machine, than i did in the studio.

And I can run more plug-ins on it than the mutliple card Mix plus system at work.

Hench you are correct sir. Who cares about latency when mixing? You'd be surprised how many people just never change latency settings though. They get a good setting which allows monitoring through the daw or playing virtual instruments without delay and never touch it.

The mindset is "this is the capability of the daw". I think that's where some of the cpu usage problems are reported from. I only switch to low latency when tracking soft instruments, otherwise it's set high.

Lawrence

Someone mentioned how easy it is to change the volume of a part by clipping and using the handles. One minor point to be mindful of when changing volume levels by clipping parts and using the handles. The handles are actually a pre-everything level change.

Not important on dry tracks but if you've got a comp (for instance) plugged in on that channel it will affect the level going into the plug.

It's almost just as easy to use the volume envelope (which IS the fader) by clicking on the volume line twice before the part and twice after the part. Then use the two inner nodes to adjust the level of that part without changing anything else.

That way the track remains as processed, ONLY the level changes and not the processing.

On the other hand the handles are a fast and great way to smooth out inconsistant levels of a vocal track before adding a compressor and as someone stated, de-essing or removing unwanted noises.

That puppy's got tools!

Lawrence

But if you're comp'ing, wouldn't the volume automation go across all takes, rather than just on that particular clip of that particular take?

And that's what I love about Nuendo. the pre and post level option. And something sorely missed in Pt's. Especially when trying to level vocals in music or dialogue in Post-Production.

Trim PI will do that. The big problem with doing Volume changes that way if your using a compressor it will alter the thresehold.
or your could simple gain change with a AS-PI as well.

I find if a syllable or a word is too loud, it sounds better to trim it before it hits the compressor. If the comp is set to sound good on all the other syllables/words, it's going to sound good on the syllable/word that was brought down in level to match all the others.

Jason

Lawrence.
Hate to be picky, but I was correct.
I have the Q-Metric EQ, and even at 1024 buffers (ASIO) you ain't gonna get close to 4PS & 32 Q-Metric, regardless of any internal buffer settings.

I do understand your point, and generally agree with you though.

Yes it would. But it wouldn't matter because you wouldn't start to mix/automate levels until you decided which take is gonna be playing right? The automation is gonna change whatever's playing at the moment. So all you're doing is adjusting the level of a section of the comp'ed track. It's only gonna play one lane/section at a time.

Actually in Nuendo when my comp is done I render it to a seperate track anyway.

Nuendo Tip #1004, Vocal Comps: Hit cycle record, set the loop and go. When you hit stop all of your takes are numbered and each is in it's own lane within the track. Could it be any easier? On a hot chorus I'll do that and let the lead vocalist go for many takes.

Leave a bar or two at both ends of the loop so the singer can rest (cough/clear/spit/toke/nod out) a little between takes before the next one begins.

Lawrence

Can you edit on one audio win.all those takes{I saw something like that in cubase SX}!.and how do you do that if that works in nuendo!

Yep. After the cycle record when you open the editor that's where the tracks are displayed in lanes. Chop 'em up, mute 'em etc.

Lawrence

Works an absolute treat too - all the active sections are automatically coloured for you to see what is the "active" take at any time.
Comping was never easier.

Is the relyability of the OS X version at the same level as the Windows version now?

Well, in the meantime I slowly left PTLE and with a courage (and some worries) entered Nuendo. To my (very pleasant) surprise I must say that Nuendo is a WAY more cute, easy, faster, intuitive and creative than ProTools software (which is a bit dry and rigid comparing to Nuendo). It is simply a higher league and an extremely friendly enviroment. So I don´t look back at all and I am happy here. Every moment I discover new possibilities offering yet faster and more enjoyable work in Nuendo.

Welcome to the club!

Two things attracted people to Pro Tools when it first came out, power, and plug ins. Now power is no longer an issue. You can get a G5 with 2 gig of ram, or Pent IV with the same. You can run the same Waves or UAD plug ins as Pro Tools, and get great results with Nuendo/SX, or even Logic.
As long as you get great converters, you should be all set.

I though still see some advantage to Pro Tools. It is still a strong industry standard (with the exception of Nashville), and there are a lot of high end plug ins that are only available for Pro Tools like George's EQ, and the Focusrite Channel Strip. But you can save a bundle in cash by getting Nuendo/Cubase and come up with a similar quality in your recordings. Just grab a Yamaha 02R96 or DM 2000 and your all set. Great controller with converters and mixer all in one.

Yes, there may be some advantages of ProTools as you mention. But - when (like me) you create only your own music not dependent on clients and any "industry standard", you have Mytek convertors (with Lavry on the way) and for "plugins" you use Millennia Origins, then you are free as a bird and can enjoy substantially nicer DAW enviroment

I've tried demos of just about every daw on the market and Cubase VST \ SX \ Nuendo always seemed (at least to me) to be ahead of the curve when it came to inteface design and workflow.

I've seen complaints from PT users about "multiple windows" and the clean "single window" interface of PT. Plugins aside, which by the way have to be opened and edited in just about every daw, every standard editing task in Nuendo SX can be done from the main window.

All of the sends, eq's, inserts, faders, track shifting, you name it is available in the inspector window without ever opening another window. I think the design is virtually flawless.

All outboard and operator skill being equal a daw track is a daw track is a daw track. An individual 96k HD track is no better than a 96k Power Tracks Pro track. The real distinctions between the overall systems are power, design and workflow. HD should be more powerful overall than the rest, it costs much, much, much more. Interface wise Nuendo IMHO is head and shoulders above the rest. PT (great system it is) is stuck in a outdated software shell.

That's one of the drawbacks of being a "standard", there's a huge risk in making dramatic changes. To redesign PT's shell from the ground up, and the accompanying bugs, could be a disaster for the high end clients that use the app. They added some 3d effects to the windows on the Mac side and call it a "redesign". It looks better for sure. But a redesign? I think not.

I have no doubt that if Nuendo's shell could talk to HD hardware most HD user's would choose to use the Nuendo interface in a heartbeat. If Digi and Steiny ever merge it's all over for everyone else.

Lawrence

I really don't get it.Why Steinberg or other companies don't make a dsp cards which runs with their software.Why only Digi.Is there really hard to make that dsp card or only Digi has a 'formula'.If a G5 or Pc sells for $3000 why they can't make a dsp card for $2000 which runs the software and plug ins ala PT.!?

There's something to be said for using the industry standard. For a commercial studio and some engineers it's an economic necessity. Fortunately, I'm hired for my talent, not my tools.

The fact that they don't is exactly why they're having any sucess at all. Otherwise, they'd just be another Soundscape or Sonic Solutions or whatever.

There are very few situations where realtime DSP is actually necessary, these days. Recording, mixing, and editing aren't among them so why pay for hardware you don't need?

Ever wonder why PTLE is limited to 32 tracks? If it wasn't, Digi's hardware sales would be devastated, which is most of their revenue. Remember, they're primarily a hardware company, not a software shop.

Does the Lexicon Pantheon plug-in work in Nuendo ? I didn't know it was even available outside of Sonar ?

Nuendo has the FREEZE feature, a MUST fot professional natve DAWs

Neither did I. But I do have a set of Impulses from it. Never used them though.

Freeze is nice but I'd been doing my own "freeze" years before they added the feature. I simply solo'ed a midi track or an effected audio track and rendered it to an audio file. If I wanted to edit it later I'd just delete it and re-enable the original track.

When hard disks and busses were slower I'd do a stereo "pre-mix" of the music tracks to play while doing overdubs. Freeze is nice but not necessarily a requirement. Nuendo's ability to disable a track (stop the disk from reading it, not just mute it) without removing the file from the track window is a nice touch.

Now Nuendo does have a feature that is a "MUST", ADC (automatic delay compensation). How Digi can sell PT for so much money and never implement that feature is beyond me.

Lawrence

Because I can put together a $500,- PC system that can run more plug-ins than a Mix++ system.

Ok, just pulled up my session. The following plug-ins on my overclocked XP2500:

octoQ x 7
Q x 25
VST Dynamics: x 32
Amplitude x 3
Pristine space: x 4
PSP84 : x 2
Lexicon Pantheon x 1

CPU usage: 50%

Try the same in 96 kHz

Your forgetting one thing, the plugins with Nuendo are subpbar. You need to buy Powercore, UAD and Waves to get decent plugins. But of course by getting them, it's still a lot cheaper than getting PT

But they are still a lot better than Digidesign plugins (like incredibly bad D-Verb etc.)

Absolutely not true. This is another myth. People think that becasue PT's has dedicated DSP, that the plug-ins must be better.
The waves eq's are among the worst plug-ins, but cost a bundle.

Nuendo has some greta sounding plug-ins that are as good or better than anything available for DSP based cards.

I love D-Verb!

This is interesting.
Because I started around 10 years ago with the first waves bundle (q10 - L1 - S1 - C1) which was pretty good in that time. I was working with the first protools 4 track with tdm system.

But allready for years I have the feeling that waves is not as usable as that it was in that time. As a matter of fact I find most of the waves plugins unusable.
I quit updating (I mean, paying to much) the waves bundle. I never understand waves policy about selling software.

About the D-verb, that's a laugh.
I payed in that time around $500,- for this crap and a year later with every soft or hardware update from digidesign I get the D-verb for free.
Lot's of d-verb floppys with authorization codes here

They know what they give you for free.

I too payed a fortune for Waves bundles in my less experienced times and now I hardly find any use for them Plugins like Sony, Voxengo etc. outperform them for several leagues.
As for D-verb, I would dig myself deep in the soil if I release something like that in the public: I never heard any reverb sounding more disgusting...

Sorry I have to disagree with you on the plug in issue. The Nuendo plug ins are good project studio plug ins. Nothing more. The Reverb A is lower quality than the Lexicon 550, and for me the Reverb A is unuseable. The Logic Platinum reverb and their new convulusion reverb are a lot better than Nuendos. Same thing can be said with the fat eq on Logic, adn their improved eq that is on 6.0. They have more of an analog sound where they shape the signal, round out the highs, and smooth out the bass. The eq on Nuendo just lifts and decreases the freq's sounding very digital. The compressors on Nuendo have no personality. The UAD 1176, LA2 A and Fairchild blow it away.

The built in eq does the job but there is much better out there. It is low cpu usage eq for general tone shaping. I wouldn't use it for critical correction on a lead vocal but I do use them for hi-pass when removing low end from multiple tracks and taking the mud out of a mix.

I don't think there's a such thing as a typical daw where anyone raves about the eq or compression. It's pretty much understood that you can always buy better.

Reverb is another matter. The Steiny verb just doesn't cut it and I simply don't use it. I've got just about every non-convolution verb out there and the one I generally like the best is TC Native Reverb Plus. Coming back to a FX return channel where you can use (yes the built-in) eq to shape the return it sounds pretty good.

Compression? I like the Waves RenComps better than most although I hear the UAD-1 has the "very best digital compression" bar none, according to at least one review and many user opinions. I've been two seconds away from buying a UAD-1 a number of times. Just haven't done it yet. I'll get around to it one day. I've not heard anyone say they've heard better. I don't use the built in comps. Don't like 'em at all.

The SPL de-esser in Nuendo is great so is the stereo analog tape emulation thingy whose name I can't remember right now. The A1 synth has some very nice sounds. All in all it's a good value. Cubase SX is even a better value for the typical studio.

Anyway, nobody buys a $1200 program like Nuendo to exclusively use the built in dsp. Just like PT users, we go out and get the best plugs we can afford.

Lawrence

The fact Steinberg pushes its EQ so seriously all over around Nuendo(mixer etc.) is a bit annoying (no option to get rid of it). I wonder if anyone ever uses it. If I want to use a plugin EQ, I would get a good dedicated one (Sonalksis, Waves, Sony ..)

I love Nuendo/Cubase as well for exactly the reasons listed here - workflow and functionality.

There's also something to be said for basing a system on (more or less) open non-proprietary architecture (pc/pci/vst/dx) - that in the long run is hard to compete with. PC/Macs processing and IO capabilities will only get exponentially more extreme. Converters from a myriad of competing companies. If Steinberg wants to leverage the value they have - I believe they should invest in software stability and support. These are the areas I see as weakest ... relatively.

Add a vote here - the UI is exceptional - pure power and pleasure .

Yes you can get rid of it. In the mixer view you can simply not display it. Those upper views in the mixer take up too much screen space (for me anyway with a LCD monitor which won't go higher than 1024 x 768) so I keep them hidden. Speaking of hiding things the mixer has plenty options for hiding, displaying, narrowing etc. than I could ever use. Great. One of the things I didn't like about PTLE was how the mixer channels were kinda stuck. In Nuendo I can move tracks around freely in the main window and the mixer follows that order.

There is only one screen where you have to see the eq, the channel edit screen. Everywhere else you never have to display it if you don't want.

Again, just another example of the flexibility of the interface. See what you want, when you want, how you want.

Simply beautiful.

Lawrence

Check out Voxengo's Pristione spaces for impulse reverb moddelling, and the Blue tubes stuff for EQ's and compressors. Also the free classic plug-ins sound greta as well.

No doubt the freebie plug's that come with Nuendo are a bit lacking, but you get what you pay for (not very much). But even the best software eq's are pretty boring compared to the best analog ones, even George's. Like reverb, it still has a ways to go but things are (slowly) getting better.

Totally agree about Waves, their stuff just doesn't sound all that good. The only VST plug's I consistently like are the UAD 1176 and sometimes their Pultec, and the PSP Vintage Warmer has it's moments. George's eq sounds pretty good but not for VST, unfortunately.

Given that I don't use a whole lot of plug's, I don't need a whole lot of computer. HD throughput is the only limiting factor these days but if my project files start hitting 60-70 tracks I start having a heart to heart talk with my client!

Henchman :
Still wondering how you got the Lexicon Pantheon Reverb to work in Nuendo ?

I borrowed a lexicon omego from a friend. I was going to get one, but I really wanted something in the under $200,- range for home use, and got a Tascam instead.

The pantheon is whatever.