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#510588 - 03/17/04 07:02 AM Is Nuendo a way ?
ISedlacek Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/07/01
Posts: 165
Loc: CZECH REPUBLIC
I have been working in PTLE all the time (and I love the software) but I start being seriously limited by the Digi 002 features. So I am setting for a small revolution: disposing Digi 002 and going for Lynx 22 with LS-AES which would take a perfect care of my 4 channels of Mytek and Millennia and full recording in 96 kHz. I must only change the software platform. I was suggested Nuendo as the best and even better than PT for audio recording and editing (I am not much interested in MIDI, VST instruments etc., just audio).
Well, I was browsing through it for a while and found that apart from some interesting things it lacks few basic , simple, transparent essential features which are present in PT and one would expect everywhere (like a simple overview at glance at any time for all tracks - pan, I/O, sends, inserts - one has to make a special research to find out about each of them. Click and play from the given point within a track does not work - you have to click outside the track. The waveforms are only black, plugin windows disappear etc. etc. Plus there is a big set of problems and bugs one can see in Nuendo forum).
It looks however interesting, I am not saying I would not go for it. Only I would like to ask - is it REALLY a stable, good, recommendable platform for a serious, professional acoustic music recording and editing , which can bring excellent results and userīs full comfort and satisfaction without feeling desperately homesick for ProTools ?
Or any other good options ? (no Logic, please)

Thanks,

Ivo

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#510589 - 03/17/04 08:44 AM Re: Is Nuendo a way ?
SoftDesign Offline
Member

Registered: 03/09/04
Posts: 8
Loc: Los Angeles
Hello Ivo,

I would imagine your budget doesn't call for a serious PT upgrade, at the very least HD1 with the 192. That would be sweet...

Have you looked into Digital Performer 4.1.2 with the 828 MKII? I been using both for months and its been extremely stable on my end. Actually the program is very similar to PT since you're already familiar with it so you won't be in the dark as you probably be with Logic... as good as it is too.

My 2 cents...

Chris

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#510590 - 03/17/04 09:20 AM Re: Is Nuendo a way ?
Rog Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/05/01
Posts: 3974
Loc: Hull, Ingerland
Quote:
Originally posted by ISedlacek:
Only I would like to ask - is it REALLY a stable, good, recommendable platform for a serious, professional acoustic music recording and editing , which can bring excellent results and userīs full comfort and satisfaction without feeling desperately homesick for ProTools ?

In a word, yes.

It's just a question of preference and habit. If you've only ever used PT then it's easy to rant and rail about how other apps don't do things right.

As someone who uses Nuendo every day, I can find lots of things PT doesnt do 'right'

Just look at the feature set and decide if it does everything you need it to do. It's a program which is very easy to learn.

Sounds good too ;\)
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#510591 - 03/17/04 09:28 AM Re: Is Nuendo a way ?
Injun Killer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/10/03
Posts: 263
You mean a "way" like Buddhism? \:\) Well, using Nuendo IS kind of a religious experience.

Nuendo is certainly a professional DAW. The things you mentioned CAN be done with Nuendo -- you just have to learn how to use it. The user interface is very flexible and customizable. When it comes to editing, the design can only be described as brilliant. If you can think of it, Nuendo can do it.

Nuendo 2.0 had a lot of bugs when it came out, but Steinberg has done a great job of fixing them.

The real issue is business -- do you need the Pro Tools "brand name" to get clients?
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#510592 - 03/17/04 09:54 AM Re: Is Nuendo a way ?
robdarling@mail.com Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/30/00
Posts: 477
Loc: New York,NY,UNITED STATES
As I've said elsewhere, I still own an HD system, but choose to use Nuendo. The HD is the diploma on the wall that lets me be in the "take me seriously" club, but Nuendo is the platform I work in. It is simply a much more powerful production platform.

There are several overhauls I would love to see- I miss the nested grouping features of PT and I would like to see a copy mix to sends feature. But for everything else, I'm as happy as could be working in Nuendo. Just don't try to use it the same way or you'll hate it. It just works different and you have to embrace that to get the most out of it.

Just do one vocal session with complicated rides and comping and you will be sold.

Record all your takes stacked, and then open up the lanes so you can see them all. The bottom take is what will be playing back.

Now use the pointer to swipe around all of them so they will be selected. Big difference number one is that you can grab big bunches of objects across multiple tracks by dragging around them, just like everywhere else in a computer except PT.

Now hit play. As it plays, hold down alt and click wherever you want to cut regions into phrases for trying alternate takes. All the regions will cut since they are selected.

Now go back to the top. As you get to a phrase you want to try another take for, get your mute tool and mute the take you are hearing. The one above it will play for that phrase. Keep on going.

Was a take too loud or quiet, but the tone was good? Just grab the middle top handle of the region and turn the volume up or down. Was a phrase great but a word too loud? Slice the word into a region (remember alt+click is cut) and turn the volume down. How about loud t's and s's? Same thing.

In no time at all you have a comped vocal with serious volume rides.

I won't work any other way.

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#510593 - 03/17/04 09:59 AM Re: Is Nuendo a way ?
popstar Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 03/25/02
Posts: 751
Quote:
Originally posted by robdarling@mail.com:
Just do one vocal session with complicated rides and comping and you will be sold.

Record all your takes stacked, and then open up the lanes so you can see them all. The bottom take is what will be playing back.

Now use the pointer to swipe around all of them so they will be selected. Big difference number one is that you can grab big bunches of objects across multiple tracks by dragging around them, just like everywhere else in a computer except PT.

Now hit play. As it plays, hold down alt and click wherever you want to cut regions into phrases for trying alternate takes. All the regions will cut since they are selected.

Now go back to the top. As you get to a phrase you want to try another take for, get your mute tool and mute the take you are hearing. The one above it will play for that phrase. Keep on going.

Was a take too loud or quiet, but the tone was good? Just grab the middle top handle of the region and turn the volume up or down. Was a phrase great but a word too loud? Slice the word into a region (remember alt+click is cut) and turn the volume down. How about loud t's and s's? Same thing.

In no time at all you have a comped vocal with serious volume rides.

I won't work any other way.
I am someone who has never used Nuendo and that was a GREAT explanation of an obviously cool way to work. Thanks!

popStAr

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#510594 - 03/17/04 10:04 AM Re: Is Nuendo a way ?
ISedlacek Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/07/01
Posts: 165
Loc: CZECH REPUBLIC
Thanks for nice hints. I am doing the revolutionary switch because Digi 002 limited features are cutting my wings. But it seems I may not regret the step even software-wise in the end \:\)

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#510595 - 03/17/04 02:46 PM Re: Is Nuendo a way ?
Henchman Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 12/31/00
Posts: 3433
Loc: Vancouver,,CANADA
Here's a copy of a post I did on the Nuendo Forum.

I thought I would run a little test tonight to see what i could get out of my cheap little mobile Athlon 2500+ machine running at 2.5 ghz.

I heard good things about the Q-metric plug-in, not realizing I had it. So I loaded a session up with the following:
32 channels with Q-metric, all bands enabled and VST dynamics on all channel.

4 Instances of Voxengo pristine with medium to long halls.

2 PSP48 delays

A lexicon Pantheon reverb

An Albino, V-Sation and Cheezemachine Virtual instruments.

And played back 32 channels of audio with long fades and crossfades.

Not a problem, and the performance is only at 40%

Nuendo Friggin' rocks.
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President Abraham Lincoln: "The Bible is not my book, nor Christianity my religion."

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#510596 - 03/17/04 02:59 PM Re: Is Nuendo a way ?
Bill@Welcome Home Studios Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/23/03
Posts: 9613
As a fellow Mytek user, and recorder of, among other styles, acoustic, there are many choices in software that work and work well. Samplitude has a lot of supporters. SAWStudio just released a
Basic" version. Vegas is easy and fast. Sonar, though it has every feature under the sun, is used by many.

I'm a fan of Lynx but I feel that their strong point is their converters. If you are already using Myteks, consider something from the RME HDSP line, with their powerful "Totalmix" applet.

Bill
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Show business: we're all here because we're not all there.


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#510597 - 03/17/04 03:47 PM Re: Is Nuendo a way ?
ustah Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 413
Loc: woodhaven,NY,UNITED STATES
I think as far as editing and mixing Nuendo is the best thing,Rob has put some really good points[I use Logic ]and really thinking on a new computer only for recording,and Nuendo on it.I also miss that feature [copy mix to aux]I was asking this long time ago to any of Emagic rep.that I had contact with.I think this is really important thing when you have-record a band[even single]artist on your studio.!
The best thing is find someone that has the program and knows how to work[as I did]and you will see the power.
Pt is nice as Rob said is a ticket for business ,but if you want something to finish a job[not a huge investment] than Nuendo is a choice.!

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#510598 - 03/17/04 04:16 PM Re: Is Nuendo a way ?
Dennis_dup2 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 346
Loc: Elvisville,TN,UNITED STATES
I am one of the Loudmouth users in the Nuendo Forum.

There have been some MAJOR changes as of late to Steiny. They were bought by Pinnacle.
At first this seemed to be very bad news.

Let me say this first...i am hard to please, and expect a lot out of my DAW company.

Lately, the updates have been coming at a staggering rate, the communication has improved 100000%.

I am still using Nuendo V1.6.1. I am holding out for a bit. I love the way it works, its easy, intuitive and my system is uncrashable.
I do many session at 96K and am suprised at my high track counts.

Most of my 44.1 session hit the 80 track count and my P4 1.8 processor barely blinks.

Nuendo has been picked by many Pro's for their home studios (See Elliot Schiners 5.1 mixing suite). Its proven that is a formidable force in the industry...it was chosen to mix Queens 5.1 of A night at the opera, and the Grammy award winning Dixie Chick record from 2 years ago was done on nuendo.

Protools is definatly the giant in the industry. And it has MANY cool tools (Beat Detective, for one).

But i love working in nuendo and when its married to a couple of UAD1 Cards....WATCH OUT!

I am waiting by the sidelines to see the MAJOR overhauls that N2 has coming. They also robbed me of features that i love in N1...like a MONO button on the master fader. Why they removed it in N2 is just silly. Plus a few others.

BUT they are really trying to improve it and make it unbeatable.

If you have any Nuendo questions feel free to email me directly. I have helped many folk get into Nuendo and will try to answer any questions you may have.

Dennis

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#510599 - 03/17/04 04:38 PM Re: Is Nuendo a way ?
miroslav Offline
Cosmic Cowboy
10k Club

Registered: 05/23/00
Posts: 14215
Loc: NY Hudson Valley, USA
Here's another fly in the ointment...

Since you are looking at Nuendo...
...you should do yourself a favor and also take a look at Samplitude 7.2 before making a final decision.

Sam 7 will probably also feel different than PTLE...and/or Nuendo...
...but it just might feel right to you...
...and it's not as $$$ as Nuendo.

The audio engine in Sam 7 is as good as any of the other HQ DAW apps out there.

http://www.samplitude.com
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miroslav - miroslavmusic.com

"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."

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#510600 - 03/17/04 07:09 PM Re: Is Nuendo a way ?
ISedlacek Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/07/01
Posts: 165
Loc: CZECH REPUBLIC
Yes, I looked at samplitude and it looks very very nice and solid - I like the straight view: the basic track track features and straight lines for recording. Like ProTools. BUT still I will probably end with Nuendo from a simple reason: there is no Samplitude guru around, whereas I have an excellent Nuendo Guru available. No manual can substitute simple straight personal interactive instructions. I hate to dig into endless dry manuals ... It takes painful ages (which I would prefer to spend concentrated on pure music) whereas through a "Guruīs grace" you can master everything in very short enjoyable time.

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#510601 - 03/17/04 08:33 PM Re: Is Nuendo a way ?
John Sayers Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 09/16/00
Posts: 3008
Loc: ,,AUSTRALIA
Nuendo does have a very comprehensive help section.

cheers
john

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#510602 - 03/18/04 01:13 AM Re: Is Nuendo a way ?
natpub Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/25/03
Posts: 96
Loc: Austin, TX
I too have been studying the Nuendo, and other competitors include Samplitude and Pyramix. Samplitude has a demo, so I plan to download that this weekend and mess with it. Too bad Nuendo has no demo. I have seen some say that Cubase is basically identical to Nuendo except for a very few features that are nealy unnecessary.

Pyramix looks very futuristic, complex, and is non-native, though much cheaper than PTHD/etc. Certainly it's main attraction is the DSD work--looks too complex to mess with for doing things at 192 and under.

Best regards,

Kurt T.
Austin

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#510603 - 03/18/04 04:17 AM Re: Is Nuendo a way ?
Chuck Moore Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 724
Loc: Nashville
Nuendo with a UAD just plain rocks. I use both PT and Nuendo for work, depending on what the project calls for. My home studio is N2 all the way. That said, there ARE a few PT things I miss, mostly internal bussing and routing type things, but the recording and editing in Nuendo are top notch. The sonics ,to me anyway, are better in Nuendo as well. I can actually be happy with an "in the box" mix. Never could say that about PT, although HD has immensly improved on that front.
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Chuck Moore

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#510604 - 03/18/04 08:12 AM Re: Is Nuendo a way ?
kubapk Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/16/02
Posts: 44
Is there anybody, who do post-production using Nuendo system (I mean, sound design for movies, ADR, foley and so on). I am asking this, because I wonder if there are special tools for it (VocAlign, Serato etc.).
Thanks
kubapk

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#510605 - 03/18/04 10:29 AM Re: Is Nuendo a way ?
miroslav Offline
Cosmic Cowboy
10k Club

Registered: 05/23/00
Posts: 14215
Loc: NY Hudson Valley, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by ISedlacek:
...I will probably end with Nuendo from a simple reason: there is no Samplitude guru around, whereas I have an excellent Nuendo Guru available.
Well...a personal "guru"...

....now how can a good manual and very decent online support forums top that!!! \:D
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"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."

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#510606 - 03/18/04 11:38 AM Re: Is Nuendo a way ?
Dennis_dup2 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 346
Loc: Elvisville,TN,UNITED STATES
There are MANY folks using it for just that.
There is a seperate forum for it as well. I dont have the link, but should be very easy to find.

Oh, as for the mix in the box quote. Yeah i love it and the mastering engineers i send stuff to always complement me on the sonics.

If you go nuendo, get the Hammerfall (RME) audio cards. THey are a must have!

Dennis

Quote:
Originally posted by kubapk:
Is there anybody, who do post-production using Nuendo system (I mean, sound design for movies, ADR, foley and so on). I am asking this, because I wonder if there are special tools for it (VocAlign, Serato etc.).
Thanks
kubapk

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#510607 - 03/20/04 11:22 AM Re: Is Nuendo a way ?
Neil Wilkes Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 07/06/02
Posts: 515
Loc: London, UK
Nuendo forum at http://forum.nuendo.com/cgi-bin/nuendo.com/Ultimate.cgi
for users, and there is a great Nuendo Post forum at http://pub19.bravenet.com/forum/show.php

It is a superb tool. The differences between SX & Nuendo are many, including a lot more import/export options such as AES31, OMF etc.
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#510608 - 03/20/04 02:10 PM Re: Is Nuendo a way ?
Henchman Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 12/31/00
Posts: 3433
Loc: Vancouver,,CANADA
Quote:
Originally posted by Neil Wilkes:

for users, and there is a great Nuendo Post forum at http://pub19.bravenet.com/forum/show.php
I couldn't find it there. what's the form name or exact link
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President George Washington: "The government of the United States is in no sense founded on the Christian Religion."
President Abraham Lincoln: "The Bible is not my book, nor Christianity my religion."

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#510609 - 03/20/04 06:07 PM Re: Is Nuendo a way ?
ISedlacek Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/07/01
Posts: 165
Loc: CZECH REPUBLIC
I could not find it either ...

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#510610 - 03/23/04 05:07 PM Re: Is Nuendo a way ?
System 8 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/01/02
Posts: 236
The latest version of Cubase is completely new and is bascially Nuendo with some video capabilities greyed out. It has the same engine, and 90% of what Nuendo does and the way it looks is the same. One great feature which Pro Tools lacks is Score. Being able to play a keyboard, or bass part on your midi keyboard, and have the notes transcribed is nice. There is also the drum map which is great if you have a small studio and don’t record real drums. The LM4 II has 24 bit sampled kits that are very acceptable.

If you get Cubase SX 2 or Nuendo you still need to get a UAD or Powercore since the plug ins that come with Steinberg is only acceptable. I actually have two UAD cards in my system so I have enough power for the Cambridge EQ, 1176, and LA2 compressors and their latest Dream verb. The benefit of Pro Tools is there are more high end plug ins you can buy (though you many not need them) and of course the name, which may help in getting clients in. Still Cubase is $699 and two UAD or Power Core Cards will be around $1,300. Still a lot cheaper than Pro Tools and you still get the high end plug ins. With a Pent IV 2.8 and a gig of ram, you can also get the Waves Platinum which many Pro Tool users use. The quality of the effects are the same with Pro Tools and the version for Nuendo/Cubase, but a lot cheaper.

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#510611 - 03/26/04 01:26 AM Re: Is Nuendo a way ?
clusterchord Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 03/30/02
Posts: 802
Loc: Zagreb
I'm using Nuendo 2.1.2. Totally stable app

The vocal comping/editing approach mentioned before, once u start working that way - theres no going back.

Also, you have individual region/file process HISTORY, allows you to really go crazy with plug-ins and processing, up to the individual sound in a word, and come back to redo/undo any time.

MIDI implementation is the best; two things that are crucial for me are multi-part piano edit (multi-color) view, where i do orchestration and midi recording on all instruments almost simultaneously, and TIME WARP, for changing the beat/bar position freely on a time line to fit your free-meter playing, indispensable for scoring!!! \:D \:D

i cross-graded from SX last yr, it wasnt that stable and smooth.
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http://www.babic.com - music for film/theatre, audio-post

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#510612 - 03/26/04 03:12 AM Re: Is Nuendo a way ?
Aaron Carey Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/25/02
Posts: 412
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
If you are looking for a digital razorblade primarily, and focus on mixing and editing music rather than creating it, I would give vegas a really serious tryout. Its missing a lot of the song creation features of cubase/nuendo, but the editing will blow your mind. I hear its great for video too, but I wouldnt really know

youve got lots of alternatives, dont be too quick to dismiss nuendo unless it truly goes against your flow. Its not my flow either, but a lot of people get along ok on that app

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#510613 - 04/10/04 02:11 PM Re: Is Nuendo a way ?
KSmith Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/07/01
Posts: 395
Loc: Venice, CA
I've been using Nuendo for more than 3 years and it's design and workflow still amazes me. I've also been using Pro Tools for nearly 10 years but it still pisses me off.

Just finished mixing an album on an HD system last night, actually. It's dumb, dated software compared to Nuendo. Pro Tools 5.x does have a few advantages but IMO they're overshadowed by some design decisions that were made a very long time ago.

Sonically, in terms of mixing, I still think Nuendo is a little better but I don't like mixing with either one. The sound just isn't there for the kind of stuff I do. At least Nuendo is virtually impossible to clip, and it's delay compensation solves a lot of problems that PT has, but either one basically sucks to mix on.

Editing and comp'ing audio though, Nuendo is just so much faster and more intuitive. It certainly has the economic advantage as well, and on the right computer is every bit as stable as a good PT system is.

The only real problem I come across is converting projects to and from PT systems. It's a time sucking pain in the ass to do properly (same length bwav files), but it definitely works and I've never had a technical problem moving things back and forth.

Kevin

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#510614 - 04/10/04 02:21 PM Re: Is Nuendo a way ?
Henchman Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 12/31/00
Posts: 3433
Loc: Vancouver,,CANADA
Quote:
Originally posted by KSmith:


The only real problem I come across is converting projects to and from PT systems. It's a time sucking pain in the ass to do properly (same length bwav files), but it definitely works and I've never had a technical problem moving things back and forth.

Kevin
Theer's a program that you can buy that will convert Pt sessions to the TL format, so you can open them in Nuendo. It will actually allow you to convert a MAC pro-tools sesison on a PC to a Nuendo PC file.
Also. If your doinf alot of Pro-Tools transfers, get Digitranslator for PT's. This will allow you to export the session as an OMF, and then you don't have huge Wave files to import. Just the regions.
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#510615 - 04/10/04 02:48 PM Re: Is Nuendo a way ?
Henchman Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 12/31/00
Posts: 3433
Loc: Vancouver,,CANADA
The name of the program for pC is MM-EDL
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IMDB Credit list
President George Washington: "The government of the United States is in no sense founded on the Christian Religion."
President Abraham Lincoln: "The Bible is not my book, nor Christianity my religion."

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#510616 - 04/10/04 05:34 PM Re: Is Nuendo a way ?
ISedlacek Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/07/01
Posts: 165
Loc: CZECH REPUBLIC
I would desperately need some tool for transfering PT sessions to Nuendo ! Today I spent half day transfering a session through wav duplicate /export/import. Terrible.
What is Digi Translator ? When installing PT 6.2.2 there is an option to install DigiTranslator, I do it, but still the export option to OMPF is not working.
Any advice please ? I have so many sessios to transfer to Nuendo . Thanks a lot

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#510617 - 04/10/04 07:36 PM Re: Is Nuendo a way ?
Henchman Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 12/31/00
Posts: 3433
Loc: Vancouver,,CANADA
Quote:
Originally posted by ISedlacek:
I would desperately need some tool for transfering PT sessions to Nuendo ! Today I spent half day transfering a session through wav duplicate /export/import. Terrible.
What is Digi Translator ? When installing PT 6.2.2 there is an option to install DigiTranslator, I do it, but still the export option to OMPF is not working.
Any advice please ? I have so many sessios to transfer to Nuendo . Thanks a lot
Well, after paying for the sofwtare and hardware, digi still wants another $500,- to unlock the built in digi translator menu.
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IMDB Credit list
President George Washington: "The government of the United States is in no sense founded on the Christian Religion."
President Abraham Lincoln: "The Bible is not my book, nor Christianity my religion."

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