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#510618 - 04/10/04 08:04 PM Re: Is Nuendo a way ?
ISedlacek Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/07/01
Posts: 165
Loc: CZECH REPUBLIC
Quote:
Originally posted by Henchman:
Well, after paying for the sofwtare and hardware, digi still wants another $500,- to unlock the built in digi translator menu.[/QB]
Yes, another money for MP3 export option etc. Good we do not have to pay also for "record enable" or "import audio track option" ....
One of the reasons I say good buy to PT ...

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#510619 - 04/11/04 12:56 AM Re: Is Nuendo a way ?
LawrenceF Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/11/01
Posts: 481
Loc: ,,UNITED STATES
Quote:
Originally posted by Chuck Moore:
...there ARE a few PT things I miss, mostly internal bussing and routing type things...
What routing or bussing features do you mean?

Lawrence

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#510620 - 04/11/04 01:57 AM Re: Is Nuendo a way ?
BP3 Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 07/31/00
Posts: 6524
Quote:
Originally posted by ISedlacek:
Yes, I looked at samplitude and it looks very very nice and solid - I like the straight view: the basic track track features and straight lines for recording. Like ProTools. BUT still I will probably end with Nuendo from a simple reason: there is no Samplitude guru around, ...
The Synthax team (the US distributors for Samplitude and RME) are very helpful if you have issues with Samplitude. Personally, I find the audio engine in Samp to sound as good if not better than any DAW out there.

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#510621 - 04/11/04 04:29 AM Re: Is Nuendo a way ?
Chuck Moore Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 724
Loc: Nashville
Quote:
Originally posted by LawrenceF:
Quote:
Originally posted by Chuck Moore:
...there ARE a few PT things I miss, mostly internal bussing and routing type things...
What routing or bussing features do you mean?

Lawrence
Oh, just nsome of the ways PT lets you assign tracks to a buss, and make that buss an input to another track, routing things around in the program etc. Not a big deal really, just if you are used to working in PT, you have to re-think a few of your methods. Overall, Nuendo is still the more flexible program. To me anyway.
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Chuck Moore

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#510622 - 04/11/04 10:26 AM Re: Is Nuendo a way ?
Neil Wilkes Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 07/06/02
Posts: 515
Loc: London, UK
Quote:
Originally posted by Henchman:

I heard good things about the Q-metric plug-in, not realizing I had it. So I loaded a session up with the following:
32 channels with Q-metric, all bands enabled and VST dynamics on all channel.

.
May I ask you where you found it then? Q-Metric is not bundled with Nuendo, and 32 examples with 4 PristineSpace at only 40% CPU sounds to me like you are actually using the Q plugin, not Q-Metric.

Sorry, but I don't believe those figures, and I love my Nuendo rig. I also know how hard PS hits the CPU, and Q-Metric is no slouch either. 32?
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#510623 - 04/11/04 11:11 AM Re: Is Nuendo a way ?
LawrenceF Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/11/01
Posts: 481
Loc: ,,UNITED STATES
Quote:
Oh, just nsome of the ways PT lets you assign tracks to a buss, and make that buss an input to another track, routing things around in the program etc. Not a big deal really, just if you are used to working in PT, you have to re-think a few of your methods. Overall, Nuendo is still the more flexible program. To me anyway.
I agree. I haven't found anything I can't do routing wise in Nuendo. For me one of the best things is the flexibility of the interface. Moving tracks around and showing and/or hiding channels in the mixer is great.

Quote:

May I ask you where you found it then? Q-Metric is not bundled with Nuendo, and 32 examples with 4 PristineSpace at only 40% CPU sounds to me like you are actually using the Q plugin, not Q-Metric.

Sorry, but I don't believe those figures, and I love my Nuendo rig. I also know how hard PS hits the CPU, and Q-Metric is no slouch either. 32?
Keep in mind when quoting or looking at estimates of cpu usage vs. plugs loaded that the latency setting has a lot to do with that. For instance because I monitor through an outboard mixer I keep the latency very, very high. 2048 mb buffer and over one second latency. A song that's being mixed with multiple instances of plugs and runs at 80% cpu usage would be unplayable at, say a 128 mb buffer / 15ms latency.

So... when someone says "I got 32 xyz plugs loaded and my cpu is @ 40%..." the real question to ask is "what latency are you running?"

Stereo vs. mono would also apply. Of course I can run a lot more (for instance) mono RenComps across mono tracks than I could run the stereo version across stereo tracks. There ya go.

Bottom line, some people who say that native isn't ready for prime time haven't really experienced what some of here have, complitcated multi-track mixes with multiple plugs being powered only by the computer cpu. Other have experienced that and found that native does not deliver the power they require.

I love Nuendo/Cubase. For the money I believe these apps to be the best value for the money in DAW's on the market.

Lawrence

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#510624 - 04/11/04 02:50 PM Re: Is Nuendo a way ?
Henchman Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 12/31/00
Posts: 3433
Loc: Vancouver,,CANADA
Quote:
Originally posted by Neil Wilkes:
May I ask you where you found it then? Q-Metric is not bundled with Nuendo, and 32 examples with 4 PristineSpace at only 40% CPU sounds to me like you are actually using the Q plugin, not Q-Metric.

Sorry, but I don't believe those figures, and I love my Nuendo rig. I also know how hard PS hits the CPU, and Q-Metric is no slouch either. 32?[/QB]
Yes, you are right about the q-metric. It was the Q plug-in. Sorry.

The rest is true.

What kind of computer are yopu running. because I know there are issues with plug-ins spiking on the Intels.
I have 2500XP+ running at 2.5 ghz.Which in the way they label their processors would be higher than a 3ghz Intel compatible.

I'll check the session again today, and get back.
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#510625 - 04/11/04 02:55 PM Re: Is Nuendo a way ?
Henchman Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 12/31/00
Posts: 3433
Loc: Vancouver,,CANADA
Quote:
Originally posted by LawrenceF:
Keep in mind when quoting or looking at estimates of cpu usage vs. plugs loaded that the latency setting has a lot to do with that.

A song that's being mixed with multiple instances of plugs and runs at 80% cpu usage would be unplayable at, say a 128 mb buffer / 15ms latency.

So... when someone says "I got 32 xyz plugs loaded and my cpu is @ 40%..." the real question to ask is "what latency are you running?"

Lawrence[/QB]
You are correct. I use the highest latency settings, because I am mixing, so who cares about latency at that point.
I posted before that i am now getting better mixes at home on my athlon XP machine, than i did in the studio.

And I can run more plug-ins on it than the mutliple card Mix plus system at work.
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President Abraham Lincoln: "The Bible is not my book, nor Christianity my religion."

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#510626 - 04/12/04 02:12 AM Re: Is Nuendo a way ?
LawrenceF Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/11/01
Posts: 481
Loc: ,,UNITED STATES
Hench you are correct sir. Who cares about latency when mixing? You'd be surprised how many people just never change latency settings though. They get a good setting which allows monitoring through the daw or playing virtual instruments without delay and never touch it.

The mindset is "this is the capability of the daw". I think that's where some of the cpu usage problems are reported from. I only switch to low latency when tracking soft instruments, otherwise it's set high.

Lawrence

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#510627 - 04/12/04 02:20 AM Re: Is Nuendo a way ?
LawrenceF Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/11/01
Posts: 481
Loc: ,,UNITED STATES
Someone mentioned how easy it is to change the volume of a part by clipping and using the handles. One minor point to be mindful of when changing volume levels by clipping parts and using the handles. The handles are actually a pre-everything level change.

Not important on dry tracks but if you've got a comp (for instance) plugged in on that channel it will affect the level going into the plug.

It's almost just as easy to use the volume envelope (which IS the fader) by clicking on the volume line twice before the part and twice after the part. Then use the two inner nodes to adjust the level of that part without changing anything else.

That way the track remains as processed, ONLY the level changes and not the processing.

On the other hand the handles are a fast and great way to smooth out inconsistant levels of a vocal track before adding a compressor and as someone stated, de-essing or removing unwanted noises.

That puppy's got tools!

Lawrence

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#510628 - 04/12/04 02:45 AM Re: Is Nuendo a way ?
Matt.Hepworth Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 2982
Loc: Riverdale, UT
But if you're comp'ing, wouldn't the volume automation go across all takes, rather than just on that particular clip of that particular take?
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#510629 - 04/12/04 04:02 AM Re: Is Nuendo a way ?
Henchman Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 12/31/00
Posts: 3433
Loc: Vancouver,,CANADA
Quote:
Originally posted by LawrenceF:
One minor point to be mindful of when changing volume levels by clipping parts and using the handles. The handles are actually a pre-everything level change.
On the other hand the handles are a fast and great way to smooth out inconsistant levels of a vocal track before adding a compressor and as someone stated, de-essing or removing unwanted noises.

That puppy's got tools!

Lawrence
And that's what I love about Nuendo. the pre and post level option. And something sorely missed in Pt's. Especially when trying to level vocals in music or dialogue in Post-Production.
_________________________
IMDB Credit list
President George Washington: "The government of the United States is in no sense founded on the Christian Religion."
President Abraham Lincoln: "The Bible is not my book, nor Christianity my religion."

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#510630 - 04/12/04 05:02 AM Re: Is Nuendo a way ?
ptuzer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/24/02
Posts: 479
Loc: Toronto
Quote:
Originally posted by Henchman:
Quote:
Originally posted by LawrenceF:
One minor point to be mindful of when changing volume levels by clipping parts and using the handles. The handles are actually a pre-everything level change.
On the other hand the handles are a fast and great way to smooth out inconsistant levels of a vocal track before adding a compressor and as someone stated, de-essing or removing unwanted noises.

That puppy's got tools!

Lawrence
And that's what I love about Nuendo. the pre and post level option. And something sorely missed in Pt's. Especially when trying to level vocals in music or dialogue in Post-Production.
Trim PI will do that. The big problem with doing Volume changes that way if your using a compressor it will alter the thresehold.
or your could simple gain change with a AS-PI as well.

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#510631 - 04/12/04 06:32 AM Re: Is Nuendo a way ?
Jason Poff Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/11/01
Posts: 330
Loc: Lexington, Ky.UNITED STATES
I find if a syllable or a word is too loud, it sounds better to trim it before it hits the compressor. If the comp is set to sound good on all the other syllables/words, it's going to sound good on the syllable/word that was brought down in level to match all the others.

Jason

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#510632 - 04/12/04 08:46 AM Re: Is Nuendo a way ?
Neil Wilkes Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 07/06/02
Posts: 515
Loc: London, UK
Lawrence.
Hate to be picky, but I was correct.
I have the Q-Metric EQ, and even at 1024 buffers (ASIO) you ain't gonna get close to 4PS & 32 Q-Metric, regardless of any internal buffer settings.

I do understand your point, and generally agree with you though.
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#510633 - 04/12/04 04:13 PM Re: Is Nuendo a way ?
LawrenceF Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/11/01
Posts: 481
Loc: ,,UNITED STATES
Quote:
Originally posted by NE-One:
But if you're comp'ing, wouldn't the volume automation go across all takes, rather than just on that particular clip of that particular take?
Yes it would. But it wouldn't matter because you wouldn't start to mix/automate levels until you decided which take is gonna be playing right? The automation is gonna change whatever's playing at the moment. So all you're doing is adjusting the level of a section of the comp'ed track. It's only gonna play one lane/section at a time.

Actually in Nuendo when my comp is done I render it to a seperate track anyway.

Nuendo Tip #1004, Vocal Comps: Hit cycle record, set the loop and go. When you hit stop all of your takes are numbered and each is in it's own lane within the track. Could it be any easier? On a hot chorus I'll do that and let the lead vocalist go for many takes.

Leave a bar or two at both ends of the loop so the singer can rest (cough/clear/spit/toke/nod out) a little between takes before the next one begins.

Lawrence

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#510634 - 04/12/04 07:07 PM Re: Is Nuendo a way ?
ustah Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 413
Loc: woodhaven,NY,UNITED STATES
Can you edit on one audio win.all those takes{I saw something like that in cubase SX}!.and how do you do that if that works in nuendo!

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#510635 - 04/12/04 10:04 PM Re: Is Nuendo a way ?
LawrenceF Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/11/01
Posts: 481
Loc: ,,UNITED STATES
Quote:
Originally posted by ustah:
Can you edit on one audio win.all those takes{I saw something like that in cubase SX}!.and how do you do that if that works in nuendo!
Yep. After the cycle record when you open the editor that's where the tracks are displayed in lanes. Chop 'em up, mute 'em etc.

Lawrence

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#510636 - 04/13/04 07:12 AM Re: Is Nuendo a way ?
Neil Wilkes Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 07/06/02
Posts: 515
Loc: London, UK
Works an absolute treat too - all the active sections are automatically coloured for you to see what is the "active" take at any time.
Comping was never easier.
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#510637 - 04/13/04 04:41 PM Re: Is Nuendo a way ?
adebar Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 07/17/01
Posts: 709
Loc: Wiesbaden, GERMANY
Is the relyability of the OS X version at the same level as the Windows version now?

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#510638 - 04/13/04 07:21 PM Re: Is Nuendo a way ?
ISedlacek Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/07/01
Posts: 165
Loc: CZECH REPUBLIC
Well, in the meantime I slowly left PTLE and with a courage (and some worries) entered Nuendo. To my (very pleasant) surprise I must say that Nuendo is a WAY more cute, easy, faster, intuitive and creative than ProTools software (which is a bit dry and rigid comparing to Nuendo). It is simply a higher league and an extremely friendly enviroment. So I donīt look back at all and I am happy here. Every moment I discover new possibilities offering yet faster and more enjoyable work in Nuendo.

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#510639 - 04/14/04 09:18 AM Re: Is Nuendo a way ?
Neil Wilkes Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 07/06/02
Posts: 515
Loc: London, UK
Welcome to the club!
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#510640 - 04/14/04 11:49 AM Re: Is Nuendo a way ?
System 8 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/01/02
Posts: 236
Two things attracted people to Pro Tools when it first came out, power, and plug ins. Now power is no longer an issue. You can get a G5 with 2 gig of ram, or Pent IV with the same. You can run the same Waves or UAD plug ins as Pro Tools, and get great results with Nuendo/SX, or even Logic.
As long as you get great converters, you should be all set.

I though still see some advantage to Pro Tools. It is still a strong industry standard (with the exception of Nashville), and there are a lot of high end plug ins that are only available for Pro Tools like George's EQ, and the Focusrite Channel Strip. But you can save a bundle in cash by getting Nuendo/Cubase and come up with a similar quality in your recordings. Just grab a Yamaha 02R96 or DM 2000 and your all set. Great controller with converters and mixer all in one.

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#510641 - 04/14/04 12:05 PM Re: Is Nuendo a way ?
ISedlacek Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/07/01
Posts: 165
Loc: CZECH REPUBLIC
Quote:
Originally posted by System 8:
Two things attracted people to Pro Tools when it first came out, power, and plug ins. Now power is no longer an issue. You can get a G5 with 2 gig of ram, or Pent IV with the same. You can run the same Waves or UAD plug ins as Pro Tools, and get great results with Nuendo/SX, or even Logic.
As long as you get great converters, you should be all set.

I though still see some advantage to Pro Tools. It is still a strong industry standard (with the exception of Nashville), and there are a lot of high end plug ins that are only available for Pro Tools like George's EQ, and the Focusrite Channel Strip. But you can save a bundle in cash by getting Nuendo/Cubase and come up with a similar quality in your recordings. Just grab a Yamaha 02R96 or DM 2000 and your all set. Great controller with converters and mixer all in one.
Yes, there may be some advantages of ProTools as you mention. But - when (like me) you create only your own music not dependent on clients and any "industry standard", you have Mytek convertors (with Lavry on the way) and for "plugins" you use Millennia Origins, then you are free as a bird and can enjoy substantially nicer DAW enviroment

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#510642 - 04/14/04 01:47 PM Re: Is Nuendo a way ?
LawrenceF Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/11/01
Posts: 481
Loc: ,,UNITED STATES
I've tried demos of just about every daw on the market and Cubase VST \ SX \ Nuendo always seemed (at least to me) to be ahead of the curve when it came to inteface design and workflow.

I've seen complaints from PT users about "multiple windows" and the clean "single window" interface of PT. Plugins aside, which by the way have to be opened and edited in just about every daw, every standard editing task in Nuendo SX can be done from the main window.

All of the sends, eq's, inserts, faders, track shifting, you name it is available in the inspector window without ever opening another window. I think the design is virtually flawless.

All outboard and operator skill being equal a daw track is a daw track is a daw track. An individual 96k HD track is no better than a 96k Power Tracks Pro track. The real distinctions between the overall systems are power, design and workflow. HD should be more powerful overall than the rest, it costs much, much, much more. Interface wise Nuendo IMHO is head and shoulders above the rest. PT (great system it is) is stuck in a outdated software shell.

That's one of the drawbacks of being a "standard", there's a huge risk in making dramatic changes. To redesign PT's shell from the ground up, and the accompanying bugs, could be a disaster for the high end clients that use the app. They added some 3d effects to the windows on the Mac side and call it a "redesign". It looks better for sure. But a redesign? I think not.

I have no doubt that if Nuendo's shell could talk to HD hardware most HD user's would choose to use the Nuendo interface in a heartbeat. If Digi and Steiny ever merge it's all over for everyone else.

Lawrence

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#510643 - 04/14/04 09:24 PM Re: Is Nuendo a way ?
ustah Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 413
Loc: woodhaven,NY,UNITED STATES
Quote:
I have no doubt that if Nuendo's shell could talk to HD hardware most HD user's would choose to use the Nuendo interface in a heartbeat. If Digi and Steiny ever merge it's all over for everyone else.
Lawrenc
I really don't get it.Why Steinberg or other companies don't make a dsp cards which runs with their software.Why only Digi.Is there really hard to make that dsp card or only Digi has a 'formula'.If a G5 or Pc sells for $3000 why they can't make a dsp card for $2000 which runs the software and plug ins ala PT.!?

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#510644 - 04/14/04 09:50 PM Re: Is Nuendo a way ?
KSmith Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/07/01
Posts: 395
Loc: Venice, CA
There's something to be said for using the industry standard. For a commercial studio and some engineers it's an economic necessity. Fortunately, I'm hired for my talent, not my tools.

Quote:
I really don't get it.Why Steinberg or other companies don't make a dsp cards which runs with their software.
The fact that they don't is exactly why they're having any sucess at all. Otherwise, they'd just be another Soundscape or Sonic Solutions or whatever.

There are very few situations where realtime DSP is actually necessary, these days. Recording, mixing, and editing aren't among them so why pay for hardware you don't need?

Ever wonder why PTLE is limited to 32 tracks? If it wasn't, Digi's hardware sales would be devastated, which is most of their revenue. Remember, they're primarily a hardware company, not a software shop.

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#510645 - 04/14/04 10:27 PM Re: Is Nuendo a way ?
eightyeightkeys Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 01/03/01
Posts: 556
Quote:
Originally posted by Henchman:
Here's a copy of a post I did on the Nuendo Forum.

I thought I would run a little test tonight to see what i could get out of my cheap little mobile Athlon 2500+ machine running at 2.5 ghz......

A lexicon Pantheon reverb

Nuendo Friggin' rocks.
Does the Lexicon Pantheon plug-in work in Nuendo ? I didn't know it was even available outside of Sonar ?
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#510646 - 04/15/04 09:27 AM Re: Is Nuendo a way ?
EXAGON Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 07/03/02
Posts: 1358
Loc: Switzerland
Nuendo has the FREEZE feature, a MUST fot professional natve DAWs
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#510647 - 04/15/04 10:18 AM Re: Is Nuendo a way ?
Neil Wilkes Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 07/06/02
Posts: 515
Loc: London, UK
Quote:
Originally posted by d-dmusic:
Quote:
Originally posted by Henchman:
Here's a copy of a post I did on the Nuendo Forum.

I thought I would run a little test tonight to see what i could get out of my cheap little mobile Athlon 2500+ machine running at 2.5 ghz......

A lexicon Pantheon reverb

Nuendo Friggin' rocks.
Does the Lexicon Pantheon plug-in work in Nuendo ? I didn't know it was even available outside of Sonar ?
Neither did I. But I do have a set of Impulses from it. Never used them though.
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