Overbearing or all in my head

[EZ]

Ok I have been to one band rehearsal, and I am not too sure about it. The music sounds good, but this one person in the group who runs things, is really rubbing me the wrong way. I came in with about nine songs that I as told they did and told them what songs I knew we did only one of them. The rest of the time, we did stuff that only he knew, or listen to him talk about all he has done in the past. Now mind you he plays all interments, and is good at it, but he seems to feel that he has to learn all the parts then give them to you. I and another person suggested that if we all knew what we were going to work on the next rehearsal things would go better, but he rather danced around that. I do not get it. I do not mind help with a song if I have trouble learning it, but give me a chance to hear it first. When asked whos rendition of a song he was doing so I could get a feel for the song he would just say dont worry about the way it was played play it my own way, but how do you play it your way if you dont know what the original was. It feels as if he want to have a monopoly on thing, the other guys look up to him, but all I see is someone in the same place I am. Your thoughts on this matter, Please.

[EddiePlaysBass]

You know, when I was "between bands" as they say, I was in contact with a lot of different people who needed a bass player. Usually I'd let their mails or calls be a guide. If something felt wrong in any way, I simply didn't bother.

 

From the sound of things, you won't be very happy in this band, unless that "band leader" (as he apparently thinks of himself) changes his ways. From what little experience I've had with these types of people, they usually don't, though.

 

I'd say bail. Or give it one more shot, and if it's the same as before, definitely bail.

[The Geoff]

You've got to ask yourself the question (Punk) - is he worth putting up with, providing he delivers the goods?

 

I've always found that any small work situation (and a band is one) usually operates better when someone with a thick skin is willing to push things along - people generally don't like it, but things go flat when the person is no longer there.

 

G.

[EddiePlaysBass]

Geoff touches on an interesting point here. Perhaps the guy has a good reason for doing what he does.

 

Maybe the band was going nowhere and there was no discipline prior to his taking an active role.

 

That said, if you don't like it, I still say "bail"

[moot]

Can you spell "way" with an F?

That's 'cause there's no F-in way!

I would rather not play at all than play with a control freak like that guy - don't kid yourself, that's what you're up against. I think everyone here could tell you a horror story about prima-donnas.

[EZ]

Originally posted by EddiePlaysBass:

[QB]

Maybe the band was going nowhere and there was no discipline prior to his taking an active role.

 

From what he and others say he has taken them out of their rut. They have changed personnel every one is new except the front man and the guitar player, even this person is relatively new. The drummer was brought in to play with me, because they did not think the old one would be able to get it done, overall this is a new band. I did not put my two cents in at this rehearsal, but I do not think Ill be able to do that too long.

[EddiePlaysBass]

EZ, I think that if you look in your heart, you already know the answer.

 

It sucks to find a new band and get excited about it, and then find out it's not going to work.

 

But it's best to find out in the beginning, rather than after investing time and effort ...

[EZ]

Eddy you are sooooooo right, but I will give it one or two more rehearsals if things don't get better I'm out.

[jeremy c]

That's a tough decision to make, EZ.

 

Here's some questions that are raised.

 

Does the guy really know what he is doing?

Does the band really sound that much better with him in control?

Will he constantly be changing people until he gets what he wants?

Does this guy's solution equal money in the bank? In other words, does this band actually work? Do people pay to hear it?

 

There's no point in going through suffering if there is not a payoff coming. And not just a promise, "as soon as I think we are ready, I will starting booking clubs". You need actual dates on the calendar that you can write down and then know you are working for.

 

I played with one guy where knowing the song ahead of time was actually a big disadvantage because he never wanted the parts on the records...he always had his own version of everything.

 

I also went to three rehearsals with someone who sang all the parts to everyone and then changed them at each subsequent rehearsal. When we all complained, he said he was teaching us how to develop parts in his style. That band did not last long enough to ever reach the performing stage.

 

And there are some gifted individuals that you really should let them tell you what to play...you will learn a ton. I notice that nearly everyone who ever played with Miles Davis now leads his own band, and from everything I have read, it was always easy being a Miles sideman.

 

There are others, a few band leaders whom I have worked for, who have a formula: "my way or the highway". They consistently get gigs (which may be because of the formula or maybe because they are good at booking the bands) and you put up with it as long as you can and as long as you need the money.

[EZ]

It is not a big thing with him giving out the parts, he just gives me the chord progressions and I do my thing. My problem is that he seems to have this total control thing going, he knows the songs, but the rest of us do not. He knows what he ants to work on, and you come in and Bam we are going to work on this, well if you let others know what we are, going to work on we could have a smoother go at it. We spent more time listening to him tell us how much he knows, and all that he has done, than we did playing music. Now he claims to be able to get all gigs we will see I guess. The big thing that makes me wonder is that he is a bass player, I have not heard him, but why did they need me if he is there?

[Eric VB]

EZ, your last comment sounds like a group I auditioned for a while back. (Actually, I didn't make the first cut, but got in on the 2nd round after the entire first ensemble disbanded.) The producer said he had made it as a performer and could get all sorts of gigs at the drop of a hat. I was given a cd to practice from, and then the first rehearsal we worked on original tunes that were not on the cd. Not that I normally mind that, but everything was in Db and I play a 4-string, and it was a genre I was relatively new to, so I would have prefered being given the chance to "do my homework" ahead of time. It lasted about 3 practices, and even though there was a gig booked, everything fell apart. (To be fair, this had more to do with the arrival of a new baby than anything else.) I noticed recently the same producer advertising for his 3rd (or 4th) iteration of the same group.

 

He wasn't really a control freak, though. The biggest problem was getting personnel (over 10 musicians) to come to practice, as this was just a side job for many that were already in working bands.

 

So, I'd say your guy is trying to be the producer for the band. As such he should be telling everyone what to do. And in certain genres of music the parts are passed out like you said, with someone singing the various parts to each singer/instrumentalist. Sometimes, as long as someone -- say the keys -- knows the song, the rest may be expected to just fall in and improv (except the singers).

 

Just to echo Jeremy, maybe your guy wants the group to have a unique sound. That can't happen if everyone just plays note-for-note from the cover. So, he probably feels things are better if you don't know the material before hand. If you do, he has to make an adjustment so you don't play note-for-note.

 

Anyway, this style of rehearsal can be tedious, as there is a lot of downtime while everyone is learning their parts. Once you get past that, though, rehearsals are more fun as there is less learning and more playing. Hopefully, as time goes on you'll notice the producer taking less of a controlling position at rehearsals, only making minor tweaks. But it won't change until you guys get to know his play list better. At he may change that continuously between now and your first gig depending on the group's strengths and weaknesses.

 

From his standpoint, he needs personnel that can take a song from unknown to groovy as quickly as possible. That means you learn it at the beginning of rehearsal and it should sound good by the end. After a few more run-throughs at following practices, it should be second nature and sound great.

 

If you've never worked with a producer before, give it a try before making a snap judgement. This will be a little more work and take a little more patience than other situations, though. You're not going to just learn 10 covers and play a one hour set in three weeks. You're going to find the best 10 covers out of many and play a gig in three months -- depending on the skill level of the group -- or double up on practices and play earlier. Something like that.

 

On the plus side the producer should take care of business: bookings, promotions, etc.

[EZ]

I really do not know how skilled the guitar player is, the drummer, has skills. The bandleader is very skilled. This is new to me in the standpoint of playing cover songs, but having someone give out the parts. I am use to doing my homework and coming in ready to play. I do catch on quickly, and I feel that I lay down some solid grooves, but I like to have a working knowledge of the music when possible.

[bruiser_dup2]

EZ,

 

I've been follow this and the "When slack band leaders attack!!!" thread back and forth, seeing two sides of the same coin.

 

In my opinion, any band that is going to amount to anything has to have a leader; the question is what should the leader do? Some leaders want to be the creative force behind the sound, others are more like business managers. In your case, the leader wants to do everything and tell everybody every note to play, and in the other case, the leader expects everybody to have been born knowing every song he knows.

 

Personally, my back gets up when the guitar player turns around and says "I want you to play this" and rips off a flurry of notes on his E and A strings, But, I might put up with it and try to play the line IF it's an original song that he wrote. I figure if that's the way he hears it, I'll try to play it for him. I might come back with something different next week, though. And I have been know to walk away from a project with a leader who was too insistent on what was to be played.

 

But I'm only in it for fun, not making any money, so if it's not fun, I'll find another band that needs a bass player.

 

Bruiser

[Tenstrum]

I went and jammed with some guys a few months back and almost the same situation developed. I was given a list of songs to learn and went back the 2nd time to jam, only we didn't go over any of the songs that I was told to. This one guitarist just wanted to jam on songs he knew and that no one else did. So, I wrote down those songs and practiced them. Went back the 3rd time and the guy pulls out another bunch of songs that no one knew. ARRRGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

So about half way through the practice I just really started pushing the songs I was given to jam and the guitarist dude just keeps trying to overide me with "his songs".

So I get REALLY vocal and start playing the songs I had learned until everyone started playing it, at which point the guitarist dude just kinda stands around lost.

Needless to say, I didn't call or go back again. One of the other dudes tried to call me a couple of times, but I was just not interested at all.

Just goes to show you how one person can ruin something...

I'm not sweating it as I know that there will be other opportunities in the future.

[Tenstrum]

Originally posted by Bruiser:

But I'm only in it for fun, not making any money, so if it's not fun, I'll find another band that needs a bass player.

 

Bruiser

Exactly!

[Tenstrum]

I also love those people who say: "I can get us booked anywhere".

99% of the time they couldn't get a band booked even if Mel Bay handed him one...

[EZ]

Originally posted by Tenstrum:

"I can get us booked anywhere".

99% of the time they couldn't get a band booked even if Mel Bay handed him one

 

hahhahhahah Now you know you not right, but it's still funny. LMAo

[Fred TBP]

Originally posted by EZ:

Eddy you are sooooooo right, but I will give it one or two more rehearsals if things don't get better I'm out.

I figured you were gonna say that, so here's my advice. Call him to see what songs he's going to work on next rehearsal, write those down, then work on the songs he DOESN'T name. Chances are these are the songs you'll wind up playing. He won't be rehearsing the songs you did this last rehearsal because he'll figure that's what you'll be practicing. One mind-F deserves another, IMHO.

 

If that doesn't work, walk on him, no matter what he offers.

If he can't treat his mates with respect, then he doesn't deserve good musicians.

[EZ]

Well I went to another rehearsal today, and things were a lot better. I think the drummer said something to them about not going over the stuff I was asked to learn. They also had a different guitar player there, Sweet, that is all I can say about him. I got there late, because I was coming from work, and everyone was cool. I am a Firefighter/EMT I really hated that I had to be late, but I when you get a call, you roll

[EddiePlaysBass]

Good to hear, EZ !!! I hope things will work out for you