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#450219 10/08/01 08:12 AM
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Jon Brion.

One of the most amazingly talented guys I've had the pleasure of making coffee for in the studio.

#450220 10/08/01 11:56 AM
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I'm shocked that no-one has mentioned John Leckie, or have they? And what about Gil Norton's work on the Pixies and Belly stuff? The first Pixies Album IS rock!


"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." - Banky Edwards.
#450221 10/08/01 02:37 PM
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Mr. Spitz, how cool. Taking me waaaaaay back.

#450222 10/08/01 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by chickenfarm:
how about fugazi?



im with ya on fugazi. their albums are always superb, 'end hits' is currently my favorite. the album where they finally sound like they have been doing some drugs.

i dont know about eddie kramer, his stuff never has impressed me. jimi is the only reason why he is who he is... and jimi could of sounded a LOT better technically speaking.


alphajerk
FATcompilation
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#450223 10/08/01 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by alphajerk:

i dont know about eddie kramer, his stuff never has impressed me. jimi is the only reason why he is who he is... and jimi could of sounded a LOT better technically speaking.

[/B]


Alpha,
Really!!! Why don't you go get all your Led Zep albums you have been trying to re-create the drum sounds for and see who engineered almost ALL!!! of 'em. Yeah, Eddie Kramer. Yeah, three mics. He mumbled that when the song "The Ocean" came on the radio at about 4 in the morning on the way home from a session from way in the back in the tour bus where he was lying down. All we heard was Thee mics, and he went to sleep.
I've had him get my sounds through ssl pre's, neve 10 series pre's, and focusrite desks, It ALWAYS sounded the same, amazing. That's in the touch. Just like if I plug in my fingers to any amp. I can make it sound like ME!!!
Hendrix album's sounded non impressive? I remember a story Eddie told me about the first Marshall amp ever made being brought in to a Hendrix session at electric ladyland and him saying "what the heck is that". Remember the tools used and inginuity back then. These where genious' at work.Creating and paving NEW territory.
How about YOU!!! you have all the tools they helped create. What will you do with them?
It's not the gear, it's the artist/engineer/mixer at the helm.

Dan Spitz
three time Grammy nominated artist/co-producer/former lead guitarist of the band Anthrax. And yeah, I'm a pro tools/analog Gear freak.

#450224 10/08/01 08:09 PM
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Dan, don't get your panties in a bunch, Mr. Kramer is great. Who else do you dig?

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Tom Cram
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"Jazz, pfffft...They just make it up as they go along."
-Homer Simpson-


Tom Cram
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non fui, fui, non sum, non curo
#450225 10/08/01 08:15 PM
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Anthrax Man---I'll have to agree with you on Eddie Kramer. Alphajerk, you have to realize that Eddie was working with very primitive gear. The first couple of Hendrix albums were done on a THREE track! I think the first three or four Led Zep albums were done on eight tracks machines, little or no outboard gear. He did some amazing recordings given what he had to work with. The guy is very talented, and from the many interviews he's done seems to be real nice, as well...

#450226 10/08/01 08:45 PM
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Yeah, Eddie Kramer is one of the good guys, ditto Glyn Johns, although I tend to think of them more as engineers than producers.

And Phil, I'll get you for that Jeff Lynne comment!

--Lee

#450227 10/08/01 09:35 PM
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hang on, y'all. Alpha made a point. Jimi's stuff could have been better - 3 track or two track or whatever. I think he's referring to his miking techniques. There are a lot of strange phasing problems on that stuff. Now, whether or not it was intentional is another story - but the fact remains that that specifically is what keeps me from actually enjoying the music. Led Zep on the the other hand, did he produce them or just engineer the stuff? "Three mics" may not have been his idea to begin with!

And, Dan, the man from An - thrax, the stories are hip but don't support the argument completely. BTW, who produced Anthrax's earlier stuff? What was it like working with him/her/it? Was Dee Snyder always bugging you guys or is that just more recently?

adam - "it's all true."



This message has been edited by studioman adam on 10-09-2001 at 11:21 AM


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#450228 10/08/01 10:07 PM
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i havent really been after the zep drum sounds. all you need for that is a great drummer, a great room, and a couple room mics. 90% of EVERYTHING is the player... but its that last 10% thats a bitch. im looking for a more in your face sound than zep had drumwise, something that sounds like it does in a club with the subs pounding on the kick etc... not many recordings have that sound. so maybe you could say the zep sound is a STARTING point, but i want to amp that up by a thousand fold.

and even most people i know as much as they like zepplin dont think their recordings are very good SONICALLY [they love their playing/arrangement]

check out buddy guys 'sweet tea' album... then put on a hendrix album. you will find that jimi's, sonically, dont hold up. and no, im not talking about the phasing... most of that IMO is intentional, not like SW's innervisions which is just horribly bad in the top end phasing dept.

to be totally honest, i have a hard time NOT making someone sound just like they do... and some [most] of the time im trying to make them sound WAY BETTER than they really are.

and im sure eddie kramer is certainly a super nice guy.


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#450229 10/08/01 10:28 PM
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I'm listening to Zep II right now. You can almost hear Zeppelin's engineer (Kramer?) lunging across the desk to turn down the distorted guitar when it first comes in on Killing Floor!

The cymbals on Livin' Lovin' go spiss-spiss instead of KRESH-KOSH

Or when the tom's roll in on What Is And What Should Never Be, biSH-baDAdooSH-DASH, all distortion and freaked out compression. I love this album but I don't use it for a mix reference.

(Hey, post 100! hoodathunkit?)

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Tom Cram
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"Jazz, pfffft...They just make it up as they go along."
-Homer Simpson-

This message has been edited by cram on 10-08-2001 at 03:35 PM


Tom Cram
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#450230 10/08/01 11:25 PM
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Mr Tom Cram----I have heard your engineering work on the Honest Engine CDs and must say you might be an "Eddie Kramer Jr." (You can see from my earlier post I mean that as a compliment.) Good job, man...

#450231 10/08/01 11:30 PM
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surely there's a better way to complement someone...

adam - "it's all pretty much true, for the most part, you know."


studioman adam
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#450232 10/08/01 11:46 PM
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Hah! Ya got me! Teach me to open my big fat mouth!


Uh, err, I meant to say I LOVE Kramer, yeah...that's what I meant to say.

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Tom Cram
dbx Senior Technical Support
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"Jazz, pfffft...They just make it up as they go along."
-Homer Simpson-


Tom Cram
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non fui, fui, non sum, non curo
#450233 10/09/01 12:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fletcher@mercenary.com:
GM's "Pantload" notwithstanding, this is the quintessential 'pantload piece of walking human feces'. This motherfucker has glommed onto, and totally fucking ruined more potentially decent records than any man breathing should have been permitted to do (in any 3 lifetimes). The king of no taste, no ears, and financial sodomy played upon unsuspecting musicians that can least afford it.

This no account talentless ball of shit should have stayed in insurance sales where scumbags like him belong.



Fletcher,

I'm only recently home from the hospital, and still fairly loaded up painkillers...so, could you be more specific as to how you really feel about this individual?

Mark


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http://www.broadjam.com/artistprofile/artistindex.asp?artistID=936
or listen at...
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#450234 10/09/01 12:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Austin Hudley:
Sir George Martin
In no particalllyy order:
Leonard Chess
Sam Phillips
Jimmy Page
Lou Adler
Chet Atkins
Phil Spector
Motown
Felix Pappalardi
Jimi Hendrix
Tom Dowd
Rudy Van Gelder
Gary Katz
Treavor Horn
Sherly Crow
Henry Lewy
I left out lots of people.



You didn't really add Sheryl Crow, did you? Yep, you did. Oh my, oh my...Kevin Gilbert's [Toy Matinee] life poured out and wasted.

You didn't really fucking say Sheryl Crow did you? Sheesh, I fucking quit.

Cheers,

Mark

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or listen at...
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#450235 10/09/01 12:26 AM
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I've always thought that Jimi's recordings were wonderful, especially the Axis: Bold as Love album. If my recordings (with many more tracks and all the time in the world to nitpick) sounded that good I'd be very happy. The appeal to me about Jimi's and Zeppelin's early albums is that they were recordings of great bands playing together and most likely done rather quickly, not poked, prodded, and ProTool-ed ad naseum. I like to imagine that they are first or second takes. Isn't the most important part of the producers job to capture a good performance? Should we care about the minor technical glitches? Isn't the guitar riff that sends the engineer "lunging across the board" in some way better than the one that sounded like the previous take?

These recordings are archetypes of rock and roll. I'm sure the next time you record Hendrix or Zeppelin it will be a vast improvement, but second guessing Eddie Kramer's recordings is futile; they are bigger than we who attempt to analyze. The test of time has proven that Eddie Kramer did it right the first time, leaving all the rough edges and "accidents" intact.


[Note: This reply has been edited for pantloads. In the event any individual mentioned herein has at any time loaded the pants, trousers, shorts, or any other garment in his possession or the possession of others with unpleasant waste product, secretion, or odiforous substance, the author disclaims or denies at his discretion any association with that party, herein referred to as "Pantload," beyond reading their name on a liner note and shall be held harmless and considered irresponsible.]

This message has been edited by Chipotle on 10-08-2001 at 05:50 PM

#450236 10/09/01 01:12 AM
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Chipotle, I see what you are getting at, but I'm not convinced. You don't think Mr. Kramer would fix an engineering/production mistake here and there if he were given the opportunity? I think any of us would jump at the chance to test the "If I only new then what I know now" aphorism. Just because you have gotten used to a mistake doesn't mean it is no longer a mistake.

I would give my left testicle to just make Mr. Kramer a cup of coffee. Does that make him infallible? Is his work immutable, or above reproach? Let's move on, there are plenty of other great engineers/producers to discuss, okey dokey?

------------------
Tom Cram
dbx Senior Technical Support
(801) 568-7530
tcram@dbxpro.com
"Jazz, pfffft...They just make it up as they go along."
-Homer Simpson-


Tom Cram
dbx Senior Technical Support
(801) 568-7530
tcram@dbxpro.com

non fui, fui, non sum, non curo
#450237 10/09/01 01:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lee Flier:
Yeah, Eddie Kramer is one of the good guys, ditto Glyn Johns, although I tend to think of them more as engineers than producers.


--Lee


Lee,

You are so correct:
If you look at an earlier post of mine directed at the question at hand you will see:

Eddie Kramer = sounds to tape/disk (that qualifies as engineer,not mixer, in fact he does not like to mix much)

Brendan O'Brian = mixer (there is no equal or anyone even on the same planet as this mans talent at hand).

Dan Spitz
three time Grammy nominated artist/co-producer/former lead guitarist of the band Anthrax. Also a pro tools/analog gear freak.

#450238 10/09/01 02:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lee Flier:

And Phil, I'll get you for that Jeff Lynne comment!

--Lee


You mean you DON'T like Jeff Lynne? And here I always thought that he was your "hero" and "inspiration"!

I wondered how long it would take before you saw that!

For the record everyone, I think it's actually Ms. Flier's opinion that J.L. is also in the (pantload} category... and I was just poking fun with my earlier comments.

Although I have heard rumors that Tom Petty's Full Moon Fever is actually her favorite production of all time...

Phil O'Keefe
Sound Sanctuary Recording
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http://members.aol.com/ssanctuary/index.html
pokeefe777@msn.com

#450239 10/09/01 03:54 AM
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Twenty years ago I heard "Sgt Pepper´s Lonely Hearts Club Band". The original long play, MONO!. Today that recording (as all Beatles stuff) remain as the right tone... at the right time... with a PRESENCE and a QUALITY I don´t identify in any modern (stereo) recording. It looks that we have much more toys and tools, but after all these years, the CROWN still belongs to Sir George Martin.

#450240 10/09/01 03:57 AM
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Well here's a bone for ya -

I do like Jeff Lynne's production. Generally.

Especially the Tom Petty stuff.

And he's an honest-to-goodness nice guy with a ton of musical talent.

So, load him out of your pants already...

JW

#450241 10/09/01 04:21 AM
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I'll second John Leckie and Gil Norton. I also really dig Wharton Tiers stuff with Sonic Youth.

#450242 10/09/01 04:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by John Whynot:

I do like Jeff Lynne's production. Generally.

Especially the Tom Petty stuff.


EEEEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!

How do you justify the fact that Jeff Lynne makes everyone he produces sound like ELO with a different singer? That he obliterates everything that made the artist unique in the first place?

I mean really - put on the following songs, in the following order:

Tom Petty - "I Won't Back Down"
George Harrison - "Got My Mind Set On You"
Dave Edmunds - "Slippin' Away"
Roy Orbison - "You Got It"

You'd swear it was all the same friggin' record with a different singer!

--Lee

This message has been edited by Lee Flier on 10-08-2001 at 09:46 PM

#450243 10/09/01 05:02 AM
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Just the snare sound on those Jeff Lynne records is enough to make you crazy.

#450244 10/09/01 05:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by trickfall@yahoo.com:
Just the snare sound on those Jeff Lynne records is enough to make you crazy.


Yeah, no shit! Between THAT snare sound and those Vocoder-ized backing vocals, it's like, how many times can you use the same stupid tricks?

I'm just waiting for some software developer to release a "Jeff Lynne emulator" plugin, it wouldn't be that tough.

--Lee

#450245 10/09/01 06:31 AM
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Lee Flier---Good point about Jeff Lynne. Add to that list the Beatles' (or is it THREE-tles?)"Free As A Bird"...



This message has been edited by gmd on 10-09-2001 at 12:23 PM

#450246 10/09/01 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by gmd:
Lee Flier-Good point about Jeff Lynne. Add to that list the Beatles' (or is it THREEtles)"Free As A Bird"...



Ohhhh gawd, how could I forget that one? That's one of the worst offenders! The closest thing to a Beatles reunion we're ever likely to have, and it sounds like freakin' ELO!!!

--Lee

#450247 10/09/01 09:52 PM
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but, but, but, but, but, but,


HE'S A NICE MAN!!!!!!

gotya!

JW

This message has been edited by John Whynot on 10-09-2001 at 02:56 PM

#450248 10/10/01 12:09 AM
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i left somebody out cause they don't produce all that much (they mostly engineer), but so many of his records sho' sound good....
Don Smith:

i.e. first "cracker" record, "bash and pop", the new delbert mcclinton, stones, petty, dylan, etc.


-d. gauss

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