Sound-proofing windows

[Scoot]

We moved band practice into my spare bedroom (using electronic drums thru a PA to control the sound), but I'd like to sound-proof the windows so we can get the volume up a bit. Are foam tiles like this what i need for windows, or would something else work better?

 

My neighbors appreciate your assistance.

[g.]

Boy, everybody is on a foam kick lately! But as in the speaker cab lining example, this material will do about zilch for what you want it for. Foam like that just diffuses enough to keep mids and treble from bouncing around as much INSIDE your room.

 

Boxing in windows entirely using the densest materials at hand is the way to go. But even a playwood face with bracing (so it doesn't easily act like a resonating panel, and thick house insulation crammed into the space in between it and the window would help.

[R.S.M]

here ya go but its not a cheap solution

 

Milgard's Quiet LineTM windows offer the best in sound control performance as well as superior protection from heat, cold and the elements. Quiet Line provides sound transmission class ratings from 40 to 47, making it suitable for even the toughest acoustical challenges. Featuring the same high quality vinyl compound and attention to detail that all Milgard windows are known for, our Quiet Line Series has been designed with years of maintenance free use in mind.

 

 

 

horizontal slider

double hung

casement

picture window

Milgard's Quiet LineTM windows offer the best in sound control performance as well as superior protection from heat, cold and the elements. Quiet Line provides sound transmission class ratings from 40 to 47, making it suitable for even the toughest acoustical challenges. Featuring the same high quality vinyl compound and attention to detail that all Milgard windows are known for, our Quiet Line Series has been designed with years of maintenance free use in mind.

 

 

 

http://acousticalsolutions.com/products/doors/windows/classic.htm

[g.]

Yeah,

 

That approach is much like one would do when building multi-layer control room windows for a studio. The difference being for a control room window that one may have about 6 inches between two outer panes of glass, with a center glass pane installed at a tilt instead of parallel to the two outer panes (somewhat like the letter N if visualized in profile).

[Scoot]

Hmm, boxing in windows may be more than I'm wanting to do (and new windows are definitely more than I'm wanting to do .) Any sites that you can direct me to that would show me what I'm up against if I decide to do the "boxing in" thang? I'm clueless when it comes to bracing/correct materials . . . etc.

 

thanks again.

[g.]

At the simplest, you could cut a 3/4" plywood panel whose size will allow you to screw it to the framing/sill, with screws fairly close together. Predrill all holes with panel in place (you can later putty the holes with latex caulk and touch up if caulk doesn't match your trim color, to return to the former state).

 

Then stuff the window area with dense rockwool or blankets or whatever you have that's dense (not foam!). Failing that, use thick house insulation compressed into the area. Then seal the screw hole lines with duct tape a couple layers thick. Then screw the sucker down.

 

Doing it on BOTH sides of the glass will really do something. It'll likely be better than your house walls, if the duct tape* is used copiously to get a true seal ; }

 

 

* the handyman's secret weapon!

[...]

Originally posted by   :

At the simplest, you could cut a 3/4" plywood panel whose size will allow you to screw it to the framing/sill, with screws fairly close together. Predrill all holes with panel in place (you can later putty the holes with latex caulk and touch up if caulk doesn't match your trim color, to return to the former state).

 

Then stuff the window area with dense rockwool or blankets or whatever you have that's dense (not foam!). Failing that, use thick house insulation compressed into the area. Then seal the screw hole lines with duct tape a couple layers thick. Then screw the sucker down.

 

Doing it on BOTH sides of the glass will really do something. It'll likely be better than your house walls, if the duct tape* is used copiously to get a true seal ; }

 

 

* the handyman's secret weapon!

Scoot, I did something very similar to this when I soundproofed my basement. Worked like a charm and I was just guessing when I did it. Good to see that my eduamakated guess was a decent one.

 

And yes, duct tape can fix anything. Even the national debt.

[ClarkW]

Foam diffuses sound, but it takes MASS to stop sound. The denser, the better. Wood is good, sand and concrete is better, lead is great, and depleted uranium will produce more-than-impressive results.

[_Sweet Willie_]

Originally posted by Bumpcity:

And yes, duct tape can fix anything. Even the national debt.

You're sh%#in' me!

 

Someone's gotta get this info to the feds...pronto!

 

[g.]

Yeah, sand rules for basementr windows. In this case you CAN use FOAM (just to damp glass vibration) on the outside, snug against plywood. Then fill the regulation crawl thingie with sand and mound it to the top of the casement.

[R.S.M]

you might want to ask in this forum also

 

http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=forum;f=26

 

and depleted uranium will produce more-than-impressive results.

 

I think that will be hard to locate

[getz out]

I did some research on this subject. I came up with a couple of good web-resources, but I cannot find where I have the link bookmarked! Doh.

 

Here's one: http://www.asc-soundproof.com/

 

Interesting concept on vibration tranmission and isolating points of transmission.

 

Not cheap.

[MattC]

Foam diffuses sound, but it takes MASS to stop sound. The denser, the better. Wood is good, sand and concrete is better, lead is great, and depleted uranium will produce more-than-impressive results.

This dense-is-better rule is only partially correct. What you are referring to is the phenomenon of "transmission loss," i.e. the acoustic energy lost as a wave front passes through a medium. Transmission loss is actually related to mass, not density. Following this, equal masses of Uranium, sand, wood, concrete, drywall, or just about anything through which air cannot pass (foam doesn't count- air can pass through) will produce theoretically identical transmission losses. Of course, given the same thickness, the heaviest (densest) material loss give the best results.

If you want a good read, look for a copy of The Master Handbook of Acoustics .

[Connie Z]

Hi Scoot,

 

I just went through what you are doing right now. My solution kind of fell in my lap. The room we rehearsed in (and we had a regular noisy drum kit) was actually my guest room in my house. I had to remove the bed so we could fit in there. The room is only about 11x12'.

 

I moved out the box springs and the bed frame and the realized that if I stood the matress up against the window, maybe it would give me some soundproofing. Well, I did that and then stuffed some pillows between the matress and the window, and then covered the whole thing with a big blanket.

 

It was almost totally quiet when I stepped outside of my house to check it.

 

So, if you have an old matress and some pillows, it's really a cheap way to do it.

 

Now maybe the walls of this house are super-insulated, but I don't think so. The house is 28 years old and not real fancy, so I think the original builders used just regular insulation.

 

Good luck!

 

... connie z

 

Note: The sound level IN the room was horrible, and totally sounded like mush. I hated that. I just could not get everyone to play quieter. It was a major drag.

[g.]

Connie, anything you can do to the walls that will soak sound will probably make that situation more bearable. Heavy drapes, sleeping bags, more mattresses, carpet padding and carpet, etc.

 

Normally I'd say a room about twice that size would be the minimum I could stand with drummers and a full-on nasty guitar(s). My last drummer had a practice kit, but his cymbals were still loud. That helped the guitars to have less excuses to BLAST though (guitarists all need 6-watt amps, dagnab it!)

 

EDIT: this is an application where foam has an actual and intended palpable effect.

[MattC]

It was almost totally quiet when I stepped outside of my house to check it.

It wasn't quiet just because you stopped playing to step outside, was it?

 

jus' kiddin'...

[Fred TBP]

I'd go with the plywood panels because they can be taken down to allow fresh air to circulate on nice days, which will help reduce the inevitable buid-up of funky smells. Lysol works, but fresh air is often better. I have two other issues to add to this discussion.

 

Safety: Most local fire codes will insist those panels be easy to remove in the event of a fire or disaster. You can mount them with hinges or (better) have a convenient hook on the panel that meets an eyelet (wall or ceiling) to hold the panel open when not in use.

 

Mass vs. deflection: I've seen it done with a blend of egg-cartons, foam and panels to bounce the sound away from the windows. I'd probably use foam on the back side of the panel (the part facing the window) to make a good seal, but that presumes the window is properly sealed against the elements, or you'll have rotted foam in a few weeks.

 

Thanks to those who posted web-links on this topic, I didin't know they were out there!

[Connie Z]

Originally posted by   :

Connie, anything you can do to the walls that will soak sound will probably make that situation more bearable. Heavy drapes, sleeping bags, more mattresses, carpet padding and carpet, etc.

 

Normally I'd say a room about twice that size would be the minimum I could stand with drummers and a full-on nasty guitar(s). My last drummer had a practice kit, but his cymbals were still loud. That helped the guitars to have less excuses to BLAST though (guitarists all need 6-watt amps, dagnab it!)

 

EDIT: this is an application where foam has an actual and intended palpable effect.

Thanks GB,

 

Fortunately, at the moment, I no longer have rehearsals in that room, but in case it comes up again in the future, I now know more of how to soak up the sound, thanks to your suggestions. It was pretty horrible to have that much sound in a small room.

 

... connie z

[bubba upright]

For what it's worth Scoot,

 

When I bought my house, I used acoustic ceiling tiles (like what you would see arranged in grids hanging from the ceiling of a typical office building) to 'soundproof' my studio. I attached them to the drywall using roofing nails & an occaisional spot of glue. For the window, I took some plywood, cut it to fit snugly in the window opening, and attached 2 pieces of ceiling tile on one side of it (Double thick) and it works very well as I cannot be heard from the outside or in my son's room 5 feet away. An added benefit was that the inside sounded like a high school band room acoustically.

 

Now, I am NO EXPERT, but my guess turned out to be a good one.

 

Of course, now we're selling the house, and I will have to do extensive sheet-rock work to return it to normal. Sheesh.

[Alerxt]

Hey Scoot...

 

another possibility is to do a setup like you were playing out minus the PA except for the mixing board. Use the DI's and pick up a headphone distribution unit. Just make sure all the guitar and bass speakers are not connected. I've done this a lot and it might be cheaper and better than trying to soundproof. Good luck

 

bill