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#433697 - 11/12/03 09:19 AM Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
DallasPA Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 303
Loc: Reading, PA
Greetings,

For at least 5 years Pro Tools has been the software of choice when it comes to digital recording. In light of that I would like to know what companies/products do you feel could have given Pro Tools some serious competition, and what mistakes did these companies make that prevented them from cutting into the Digidesign market share.

In addition I would like to talk about the current/new companies that might offer some future competition, and what these companies/products must do in order to be a serious threat to Pro Tools.

I will reserve most of my opinions until later, but for now I will say; IMHO Any company that doesn't produce quality dedicated hardware, mainly DSP cards and control surfaces, has a snowballs chance of challenging Pro Tools. It might look good, and or sound great, but a totally native system will not become the tool of choice in this business any time soon. For both technical and pyschological reasons.

P.S. I don't believe that Pro Tools is the ultimate DAW on the face of the planet, just the most widely accepted. I do believe that someone has the potential to take down this juggernaut, the underlying question is how????????
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#433698 - 11/12/03 11:23 AM Re: Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
wireline Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 1646
uh huh...
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#433699 - 11/12/03 02:58 PM Re: Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
innesireinar Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/02/00
Posts: 84
I don't know why you don't want to consider native systems. I think is the future and now since G5 is out a good native system can have a performace like at least an HD2.
I'm seeing Logic is getting out users of digi world.
Until two years ago who wanted a system where mixing without external console he had only PT and until this date who used old 24mix versions lived like in an "happy island" with his TDM plugs etc. After, when HD was released digi users had to do with HD plugs OS9 release, then HD OSX release and now, that motorola has stopped cpu production, HD OSX accell release plugs.
I think it's better to live in the hell.

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#433700 - 11/12/03 03:02 PM Re: Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
Daniel_Dettwiler Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/06/01
Posts: 422
Loc: 4125 riehen,,SWITZERLAND
IMO such a compagny first should be able to deliver new products on a regular basis. Often someting new came on to the marked, looked gread and was equal to Digidesign hard- and software, but a half year later Digi brought out the next step of Digi Hardware, while the other system did not have anything to compete. (As ie with Paris and others).

IMO a System that could compete could be pyramix, many advantages. But as long as they do not have support for important plugins and professional controllers, Synth Integration and Support for Apple, I would not use it. But I think it has potential to get the next industrie standart.

Important to me is a system where one can record to, mix and do sounddesign stuff. At the moment for all the 3 domains in one box there is no competion for Protools.

And I think that in the next years clearly Native Systems can not come close to DSP accelerated system.

Daniel
http://www.ideeundklang.com

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#433701 - 11/12/03 03:09 PM Re: Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
DallasPA Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 303
Loc: Reading, PA
Inness,

I'm not against native systems, but look at your suggestion. Do you think a native DAW on a G5 would out-perform the same G5 with 4 to 5 PT DSP cards once the software is optmized for a G5 on OSX? I don't think so. In my opinion you must offer a system which sounds better, is faster, more stable, and has better functions and more latent power before the Digi house of cards begins to fall. And its going to be very difficult for a comp stock out of the box to compete against the same comp with souped up DSP cards.

Let me restate my thinking I don't believe any Native system can compete with Digi at a level to dominate their market share or cause their demise. Mainly because a funtioning DSP based DAw will always have more horses under the hood if the two are using the same computers!!!!
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#433702 - 11/12/03 04:19 PM Re: Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
DallasPA Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 303
Loc: Reading, PA
Daniel,

I agree Emu had a good start but I believe any company that is serious about competing with PT needs a 5 to 7 year plan. During this time-frame I would think you would need at least 3 new hardware releases and many software revisions before you could really close the gap.

Emu's Fatal Flaws

1) No dedicated quality motorized control surface-that was a bust for me. And really the only reason why I refused to buy the system.

2) Seems like Emu was looking for a 3 year plan rather than the 7 years I suggested. So they really bailed out far to early. Word of mouth was just catching on and everybody was talking about the sound of the system. I really think a lot of people were waiting in the wings to see what they were going to do next (like replacing the ugly a## control surface) before dropping 5K for the system.

3)Not spending some bucks partnering with other companies to develope quality plugins.
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Reading, PA

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#433703 - 11/12/03 04:41 PM Re: Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
Zeke Smith. Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 03/21/02
Posts: 1327
Loc: NJ
I do think that Paris came closest to playing the same game as Digi. I certainly loved how it sounded, liked the VST compatibility, loved that it was cheaper than TDM, but really lamented that they didn't have much of a development and support base behind it all.

I really don't think that anyone, new or already established, is going to bet their market share on the R&D work and costs it would take to come out with a competing DSP-based system. Just like ADAT had a limited shelf life once hard-disk-based recording began to become viable, I do think that dedicated hardware DSP-based recording has a shelf life, although the end isn't quite in sight yet.

However, we're pretty evidently past the high noon of hardware DSP-based recording. The biggest hurdles of native-based systems, namely stability and DSP power, are beginning to be overcome, at least for typical users. DSP limitations in my native system have not stopped me from doing the work I need to do. Latency, however, remains unconquered, although things like the MOTU PCI-424 CueMix do provide something of a workaround.

My point? By the time another company got a hardware-based competitor to PT HD to market, it'd be obsolete, and possibly, depending on the development of computing power, irrelevant.

Digi managed to achieve critical mass in terms of userbase and product development at a time (the early-mid 90's) when there was no other real game in town. Native wasn't really viable for audio except as a curiousity. ADAT and 2" and other tape-based alternatives weren't really direct competitors. Now, with the proliferation of native and the industry-standard nature of Pro Tools, those conditions don't exist any more.

No one else is willing to corporately take that kind of risk for little or no potential gain.
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#433704 - 11/12/03 05:36 PM Re: Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
DallasPA Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 303
Loc: Reading, PA
Zake,

You might be right, but I think we will be using DSP cards for a long time to come. A full blown HD3 probably has about 200 to 500 times the processing power of the newest top of the line DP G5's. I dont think we will see that type of power in a stock PC or MAC until somebody develops a bioprocessor 20 years from now!!!!!!!!!!

And if the DSP trend lasts that long its a certainty that other systems will enter the market. Pyramix, as mentioned above, is a DSP based DAW running on PC's.
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Reading, PA

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#433705 - 11/12/03 09:45 PM Re: Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
Philter Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 09/19/01
Posts: 4025
Loc: North New Jersey, USA
Those numbers there are made up. Silly.
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#433706 - 11/12/03 10:40 PM Re: Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
Henchman Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 12/31/00
Posts: 3433
Loc: Vancouver,,CANADA
Quote:
Originally posted by DallasPA:
A full blown HD3 probably has about 200 to 500 times the processing power of the newest top of the line DP G5's. I dont think we will see that type of power in a stock PC or MAC until somebody develops a bioprocessor 20 years from now!!!!!!!!!!
Lay off the crackpipe. Because you are talking complete nonsense.
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#433707 - 11/13/03 12:25 AM Re: Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
Geetar Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 108
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Originally posted by DallasPA:
[QB A full blown HD3 probably has about 200 to 500 times the processing power of the newest top of the line DP G5's. [/QB]
Ah yes, I remember it well.

In his 2002 address, the Secretary of Energy Spencer Abraham proudly talked about the pivotal work in biological work and environmental research that the $25,000,000 Pacific Northwest National Labs Supercomputer would be undertaking, but added in a barely-heard aside :'I'm buggered if I can see how someone with a $15,000 Protools rig will poop on us from a great height us in the supercomputer rankings in just 12 months time...."

You nerk.
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#433708 - 11/13/03 01:21 AM Re: Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
LawrenceF Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/11/01
Posts: 481
Loc: ,,UNITED STATES
Hmmm... Interesting topic.

Digi is so embedded in pro audio it will be hard to knock them off. There's just too many pro studios using it right now. Once a "standard" is established not many people wanna screw around with it. With that said...

Steinberg is positioning (I believe) itself to do just that. Let me explain...

1. Nuendo is rapidly gaining market share and the trust of the pro audio industry. In a couple of years who knows where that product will be. It's I/O hardware (and actually many other mfg's I/0 hardware) is on par with the HD stuff. Sound quality is not the issue. The issue in the pro audio world is working with a computer that will behave like a hardware mixer during tracking and or mixing, effect sending and such. That's where PT grabbed it's market share.

2. Steinberg has the R&D money and coders skilled enough to keep their development moving along at a rapid pace. They are in the best position of any DAW mfg to do battle with Digi.

3. It wouldn't surprise me to see Steinberg come out with a DSP card system to compliment Nuendo in the next year or three. Again, they have the money and the engineering skills to do something like that if they want. I think that will be the next logical step for Nuendo (or whatever they call the DSP version), a "higher end" proprietary app with DSP cards.

People talk about PT like it's technology from Mars or something. It's simply PCI cards with multiple DSP chip options. Bottom line, PT is a good software app with a modular digital mixer built on the PCI card format. Plain and simple. Most any company with the mindset and R&D money could develop something similar. Steinberg's "Nuendo DSP" would be an immediate hit due to the great software front-end. I'm surprised they haven't done it already.

Keep you eyes on Germany. Paris could have taken a huge chunk from PT but they didn't. I think Steinberg will finish what they started.

Case in point. Digi now allows using the host computers dsp for effect processing. Now why the heck would they do that? PT users always talk about how much higher quality TDM plugs are. So why would they wanna run MAS, DX or VST? Strange? Digi did it to take a slap at native's ever growing popularity. And still no automatic delay compensation? Weird development path huh?

Digi's eventually going down.

Lawrence

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#433709 - 11/13/03 10:37 AM Re: Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
DallasPA Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 303
Loc: Reading, PA
Granted,

The numbers may be inflated, but this is what Digi claims. Not me!!!!
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Reading, PA

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#433710 - 11/13/03 10:50 AM Re: Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
DallasPA Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 303
Loc: Reading, PA
Ohhh,

There may be some hardware engineers out there that can give us a real world estimate of the difference in processing power between a full blown HD3 PT rig and the best available DP G5.
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Reading, PA

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#433711 - 11/13/03 01:51 PM Re: Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
errol Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 319
Loc: Amsterdam,,NETHERLANDS
Quote:
Originally posted by Henchman:
Quote:
Originally posted by DallasPA:
A full blown HD3 probably has about 200 to 500 times the processing power of the newest top of the line DP G5's. I dont think we will see that type of power in a stock PC or MAC until somebody develops a bioprocessor 20 years from now!!!!!!!!!!
Lay off the crackpipe. Because you are talking complete nonsense.
Complete nonsense?? It's the biggest joke I ever heard on these forums.
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#433712 - 11/13/03 02:13 PM Re: Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
errol Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 319
Loc: Amsterdam,,NETHERLANDS
Quote:
Originally posted by Daniel_Dettwiler:
IMO such a compagny first should be able to deliver new products on a regular basis. Often someting new came on to the marked, looked gread and was equal to Digidesign hard- and software, but a half year later Digi brought out the next step of Digi Hardware, while the other system did not have anything to compete. (As ie with Paris and others).

IMO a System that could compete could be pyramix, many advantages. But as long as they do not have support for important plugins and professional controllers, Synth Integration and Support for Apple, I would not use it. But I think it has potential to get the next industrie standart.

Important to me is a system where one can record to, mix and do sounddesign stuff. At the moment for all the 3 domains in one box there is no competion for Protools.

And I think that in the next years clearly Native Systems can not come close to DSP accelerated system.

Daniel
http://www.ideeundklang.com
Dear Daniel,

I feel very sorry to say but you don't know what you are talking about.

If digi is coming "again" with a "new" card then they are already old in comparison with the competition.

Native is already the future.
And if you wanna have special plugins like compressors from UA, then you can buy a dsp card from UA.
Because of the piracy, plugin makers like to sell their software with "key" dsp cards.

b.t.w. what's so special with digi's plugins???
Most of them sound like shit or worse.

If digidesign didn't sell their overpriced cards in the past, when native was not ready, nobody should using protools software right know.

Nuendo, logic, Live, these programs have so much more to offer in combination with a G5 or a dual pc with a couple of normal priced dsp cards from UA or TC.

If something is new in software it never is from digi. Yes this is what they tell you in a demonstration but if you look further then your nose is, you will be surprised how far others are already.

I think that protools will loose a big piece of the market for 2 reasons.

01 - Mixing properly, only in protools, with a procontrol is not possible.
Even the HD sounds flat and 2dimensional.
So that means that a lot of "protools studio's" will have all the same flat sound, which is the case right know.
I'm a mastering engineer and I receive weekly a few HD mixes to master.

There is hope, only if you route it through a analog mixer.
Internally mixing in protools is a joke.
Comparing with for example nuendo the difference is bigger then big.

When engineers will hear this difference, the more engineers wil stop with digi and go over to a better sounding system.

02. If digi still thinks they can ask these overpriced prices, without giving the customer the quality they think they pay for the customer will look further and find out that he can save a lot of money.

digi can survive if they lower the price and put up the quality of their systems.

I talked this week with 2 "dedicated" digi users.
They are trying right know to sell their digi stuff to change to a nuendo system.
Why? because they are tired of mixing without a good feeling.
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#433713 - 11/13/03 03:52 PM Re: Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
DallasPA Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 303
Loc: Reading, PA
Errol,

If you have to spend $1000 a pop for UAD or TC DSP card, are we truly talking native systems still???!!!!

My point is I don't see us getting away from DSP cards within the next 5 years!!!!!

And no one answered the question about the processing power of an HD3 VS DP G5.

I'm a PT/Mix user my self but lets say with the HD3 you can still have lets say 9 DSP cards in a break out box. Each of these cards on average will have lets say 8 DSP chips. That gives you on average 72 dedicated chips for processing. Versuses 2 G5 DP's which the PT rig also has. I don't know how big of a difference this equates to, but it has to be one that is substantial.

And even if Apple can design a 5gig processor using silcon based processors, which I doubt, in the next 5 years. Will the current I/O structure and memory be able to handle a Quad 5 gig processor. And if this does happen, will 20 gig of stock processing be enough to bring a native DAW to even processing ground with a DSP dependent DAW.

Yes and No, have you noticed as we get more power the software gets more complex, and the plugins do too. With that being said, I do believe we will see awesome stand alone native systems. But I believe the DSP based systems will be unbelievable and have more then a slight advantage on the DAWS.

These DSP companies (like PT, TC, UAD) will have to develope new chips which will outstrap the processors placed on Macs and PC's.
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Reading, PA

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#433714 - 11/13/03 04:07 PM Re: Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
Henchman Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 12/31/00
Posts: 3433
Loc: Vancouver,,CANADA
Quote:
Originally posted by DallasPA:


I'm a PT/Mix user my self but lets say with the HD3 you can still have lets say 9 DSP cards in a break out box. Each of these cards on average will have lets say 8 DSP chips. That gives you on average 72 dedicated chips for processing. Versuses 2 G5 DP's which the PT rig also has. I don't know how big of a difference this equates to, but it has to be one that is substantial.

There's a big difference between a DSP chip and a computer processor chip. his is why a DSP chip is relatively inexpensive, whereas computer processors are not.

This is why the mixer i pro-tols can take up a couple of DSP chips. wheras creating a 48 channel mixer with a bunch of auxes doesn't even create a blip o theprocessing meter in a native DAW.
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#433715 - 11/13/03 04:09 PM Re: Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
Henchman Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 12/31/00
Posts: 3433
Loc: Vancouver,,CANADA
Delete.

Double post
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President George Washington: "The government of the United States is in no sense founded on the Christian Religion."
President Abraham Lincoln: "The Bible is not my book, nor Christianity my religion."

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#433716 - 11/13/03 04:21 PM Re: Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
StoneinaPond Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/22/02
Posts: 2009
Loc: New York City
Quote:
...but lets say with the HD3 you can still have lets say 9 DSP cards in a break out box.
Well, it's no longer a HD3. It becomes an HD10.

If you really need that much processing power, then IMHO you are doing something wrong on the way in. In which case no amount of processing power will help you.

And don't let's get started on what audio sounds like using nine DSP cards without automatic system wide delay compensation.
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#433717 - 11/13/03 05:02 PM Re: Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
DallasPA Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 303
Loc: Reading, PA
Never stated that a single DSP chip was even a match for a G3 motorola ####, my point is the sheer number of DSP chips on these cards must account for something. If not why are we paying PT 5K for a brand new card, maybe a company should copy the printed circuit board layout. Sell the circuit boards and we can add the chips ourselves. LOL.

And as stated, I use mix not HD so I don't know how many or what type of chips are on an HD card. Our how many cards a HD can support, people call their systems Mix3 and have 6,7,8,9 cards.

So I guess the general consensus is DSP chips are worthless, but thats why TC & UAD have released cards.
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#433718 - 11/13/03 05:06 PM Re: Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
StoneinaPond Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/22/02
Posts: 2009
Loc: New York City
Quote:
If not why are we paying PT 5K for a brand new card
Ah! Now you are asking the right question.
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Stone In A Pond


"Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on."

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#433719 - 11/14/03 06:25 AM Re: Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
errol Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 319
Loc: Amsterdam,,NETHERLANDS
Quote:
Originally posted by DallasPA:
If not why are we paying PT 5K for a brand new card, maybe a company should copy the printed circuit board layout.
And as stated, I use mix not HD so I don't know how many or what type of chips are on an HD card.
Dallas. a tip from a 10 years protools user.
Don't exchange to HD.
It cost you much more money then in the past and you will be very disapointed.
Same sound (a little better) same flatnes and same time to get a proper mix. (read to many days to spend on a mix)

And this is what I also said, the dsp cards from digi are to expensive.
And also the are in 2 years time less tehn half the price what you paied for.

Still a 2hand UA or TC is more then half the price after how many years already now.

I think that native is already the future but again, because the plugin makers like to protect their software, dsp cards will stay for a while.

Otherwise their software will be cracked.
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#433720 - 11/14/03 07:25 PM Re: Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
Extreme Mixing Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/03/01
Posts: 440
Loc: Van Nuys ,CA,UNITED STATES
I have never used a native system that compares with Pro Tools for mixing. If we're talking MIDI, then that's another conversation. I've used DP many times and it ALWAYS slows down when the mix gets busy. They crash, or become sluggish. I'm not really interested in printing effects in the middle of a mix. I want them live, because they are all subject to change until the moment the mix goes down. With PT, If you want more processing, you can rent or buy more.

Show me a native system with the processing capability of my 5 card Mix system and I'm there!

One day native will be the best way to go. But not now.

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#433721 - 11/14/03 07:54 PM Re: Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
Daniel_Dettwiler Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/06/01
Posts: 422
Loc: 4125 riehen,,SWITZERLAND
Quote:
Dear Daniel,

I feel very sorry to say but you don't know what you are talking about.

Dear Errol

I could say the same if I read your comments. But I probably wouldn't have written it because because I respect the opignions of other engineers, even if they are the complete oposites of mine.

Quote:
01 - Mixing properly, only in protools, with a procontrol is not possible.
Even the HD sounds flat and 2dimensional.
So that means that a lot of "protools studio's" will have all the same flat sound, which is the case right know.
I'm a mastering engineer and I receive weekly a few HD mixes to master.

There is hope, only if you route it through a analog mixer.
Internally mixing in protools is a joke.
Comparing with for example nuendo the difference is bigger then big.
Those points are all just pure plain wrong imo. Can I do something to prove the oposite ? ( I mean this seriously). I have two old projects which have been mixed by two different engineers, one mixed on PT one on a Neve VR. One Project was a Jazz Project, one a Film Score. Do you think you could tell which mixes are the PT's and which the analogs? (Although I would not be sure if I could find the masters of both, I'd had to ask the client...)

Best
Daniel

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#433722 - 11/14/03 11:41 PM Re: Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
Henchman Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 12/31/00
Posts: 3433
Loc: Vancouver,,CANADA
Quote:
Originally posted by Daniel_Dettwiler:
Those points are all just pure plain wrong imo. Can I do something to prove the oposite ? ( I mean this seriously). I have two old projects which have been mixed by two different engineers, one mixed on PT one on a Neve VR. One Project was a Jazz Project, one a Film Score. Do you think you could tell which mixes are the PT's and which the analogs? (Although I would not be sure if I could find the masters of both, I'd had to ask the client...)

Best
Daniel
They just did something like this on the PSW. Same song. One analogu one PT mix.

It was quite easy to recognize the harsh sound that PT's inflicts on audio.

So, if you want to repeat the same test, go right ahead. But you need to use the same master tapes.

I just wish PT users would stop pretending that it sounds as good as analogue.

It doesn't.
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President George Washington: "The government of the United States is in no sense founded on the Christian Religion."
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#433723 - 11/15/03 01:09 AM Re: Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
Chuck Moore Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 724
Loc: Nashville
I've got my money on Nuendo right now. A lot of Nashville engineers are looking to it, partly to get off what I call the "pro tools treadmill", and partly because it just plain SOUNDS better. No question about it. As far as real world power goes, I use a P4 system with 1 UAD, and routinely do 40+ track mixes with dozens of plug ins without proc power beeing an issue. for tht matter, my plug in count is better on my laptop than the 24 mix+ PT system I use sometimes. But in the end, it's all about the sound.
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#433724 - 11/15/03 06:07 AM Re: Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
Wolfgang Eller Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/19/02
Posts: 84
Loc: Erlangen,,GERMANY
Quote:
Originally posted by Henchman:
[QUOTE]I just wish PT users would stop pretending that it sounds as good as analogue.

It doesn't.
You´re right Henchi - it´s better!
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#433725 - 11/15/03 08:13 AM Re: Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
Alndln Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/15/00
Posts: 6451
Loc: ,NY,UNITED STATES
Quote:
Originally posted by DallasPA:
Do you think a native DAW on a G5 would out-perform the same G5 with 4 to 5 PT DSP cards once the software is optmized for a G5 on OSX?
Who says they can't use a bunch of UAD's or Powercore's and whatever else is coming.Most projects these days can be handled natively anyway and they already do,so that's the bottom line.Digi doesn't have the only DSP cards anymore either.I think the issues you are bringing up about native stability and power are quite outdated.Did somebody drag this thread up from a couple years ago?
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#433726 - 11/15/03 08:15 AM Re: Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
Alndln Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/15/00
Posts: 6451
Loc: ,NY,UNITED STATES
Is this Tron's evil twin? Yin/Yang?
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