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#433817 - 11/26/03 07:34 PM Re: Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
adebar Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 07/17/01
Posts: 709
Loc: Wiesbaden, GERMANY
Quote:
We are talking about a $2000 G5(probably january), a $500 Logic program, and a $1000 effects card. This setup, optimized correctly, could leave PT in the dust.
If you look how Apple competes with Final Cut Pro against Avid, I could imagine Logic could be a strong competitor to ProTools soon.

Steinberg doesn´t seem to realize the chance they have with Nuendo so Logic could be the winner.

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#433818 - 11/26/03 07:46 PM Re: Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
Henchman Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 12/31/00
Posts: 3433
Loc: Vancouver,,CANADA
Quote:
Originally posted by soulconnect@earthlink.net:


Let me know when the song is ready. If I have time, I'd love to check it out.

soulconnect@earthlink.net
This is the song:

Little Bird

I picked this one because It's not too long., uses Real drums and thick BG's.
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#433819 - 11/26/03 08:18 PM Re: Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
Superstrings Offline
Member

Registered: 03/18/02
Posts: 20
Loc: ,,UNITED KINGDOM
Quote:
Originally posted by Henchman:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by adebar:
[qb][QUOTE]
In future there may be a common file standard where it is easy to export and import audio files with EDLs from and to every DAW - than nowbody asks for a standard of a machine if there is a good working exchange stadard.
Which DIGI is very hard trying to prevent. This is why they stopped Fairlight from implementing the Pro-Tools import and Export function on Fairlights.

Henchman,

If it is not too much trouble, could you please expand on what they did to prevent compatibility? Was it something legal? Technical? Is there a site where this is documented? Thanks.

S.

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#433820 - 11/26/03 08:35 PM Re: Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
Daniel_Dettwiler Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/06/01
Posts: 422
Loc: 4125 riehen,,SWITZERLAND
Quote:
Well, I tell you what. I am going to be do a comparison mix of a song I am working on. I'll b mxing it at my place on the Fairlight/D8B.
Then, I'm going to do a mix using PT's and the Euphonix. And the a straight Pt mix.
Now, not being a PT user, that would give teh PT format a disadvantage,
I'll get you a copy of the song, and you do a mix on PT's.
Why not. Not that it would prove anything, either your or my mix will be "better", but to me it would not be the difference of the plattform, but of the mixer.

Anyway I don't want to mix more than a minute of this song. You could choose which part I mix. To do the whole thing takes to much time for me. Basically if we want to look for platform differences, one minute should be enough. Also I recommand to fix the tuning of the singer, so that we work all with the same track.

What do you think?

Daniel
http://www.ideeundklang.com

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#433821 - 11/26/03 08:49 PM Re: Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
Henchman Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 12/31/00
Posts: 3433
Loc: Vancouver,,CANADA
Quote:
Originally posted by Superstrings:

Henchman,

If it is not too much trouble, could you please expand on what they did to prevent compatibility? Was it something legal? Technical? Is there a site where this is documented? Thanks.

S.
The import and export function was an option that Fairlight paid a licensing fee to DIGI. They then had to remove it a couple of years later, becasue Digi would not allow them to import or export PT's compatible sessions, and they were forced to write it out of future software.

So much for compatabilty. Doon't look towards digi for compatabilty to become an oiption as far as they are concerened. Because it is too much of a threat for them.
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President George Washington: "The government of the United States is in no sense founded on the Christian Religion."
President Abraham Lincoln: "The Bible is not my book, nor Christianity my religion."

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#433822 - 11/26/03 08:52 PM Re: Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
Henchman Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 12/31/00
Posts: 3433
Loc: Vancouver,,CANADA
Quote:
Originally posted by Daniel_Dettwiler:
[QUOTE] Also I recommand to fix the tuning of the singer, so that we work all with the same track.

What do you think?

Daniel
http://www.ideeundklang.com
I see no need to do any vocal tuning whatsoever.
I can't see mixing one minute taking anymore time than 2.5 minutes. For me it's setting up and getting the main sounds that takes the most time.
_________________________
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President George Washington: "The government of the United States is in no sense founded on the Christian Religion."
President Abraham Lincoln: "The Bible is not my book, nor Christianity my religion."

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#433823 - 11/26/03 09:04 PM Re: Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
Daniel_Dettwiler Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/06/01
Posts: 422
Loc: 4125 riehen,,SWITZERLAND
Quote:
I see no need to do any vocal tuning whatsoever.
I can't see mixing one minute taking anymore time than 2.5 minutes. For me it's setting up and getting the main sounds that takes the most time.
I really prefear to mix just one verse and one chorus. To me its not only about setting up and getting the main sound, it takes much more time (for me) if I have to do the whole song. As you said, the important thing to listen here is the sound, and therefore one minute is ok. Last but not least the file transfer would be faster with 1 min files. And I personnaly don't like this music, so this is another reason why I prefear to get 1 min files.
The vocals are out of tune most of the time but that would be ok for me.

Ok for you?
Daniel

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#433824 - 11/26/03 09:05 PM Re: Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
RKrizman Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/02
Posts: 315
Loc: Venice, CA
Quote:
Originally posted by Henchman:
Quote:
Originally posted by RKrizman:
[QUOTE]
If I lived in your area, I'd buy a G4, slap in an HD3 system, hire a 12 year old to run it, and put those guys out of business.

-R
Tell you what. You tell the company I work for that you'll pay to upgrade all 12 of their systems to HD, and replace allt heir G3's for G4's.

Doesn't make alot of sense does it.

Why shoudl a company have to continually upgrade., just to have systems workign properly.
I don't know where to begin. What, are you still working on an original Fairlight? Of course not.

If your company is keeping 12 Protools systems cooking then it should take almost no time to pay off the investment of upgrading. Plus, they'll be able to charge more than $5 an hour because their systems will actually be working !!

What you're saying is that they've got 12 PT systems going and none of them work properly? That is so needless. You should defnitely open your own shop next door and run them out of business in 5 minutes. Or more realistically, why not invest in one of their rooms in exchange for a piece of the action. I mean, if you're doing post production, which I gather is what you're doing, you can pay that back easily, and have a no-aggravation work environment to boot.

Beats the hell out of all this griping. At least now I know when you're bashing Pro Tools you're talking about some prehistoric version.

You know, I was curious so I jotted down a few estimates. Bear with me as these aren't accurate necessarily, but should say something about the big picture.

Say you buy 12 G4's at about $2,000 each. Then spend $20,000 each for 12 new Protools HD systems. Now you're in for about $264,000. Now say you borrow all of that in a 15 year loan, at, say, 10% interest. Your monthly payment for your 12 rooms will be about $4,000. That's $333 per room, which is about 16 bucks per business day.

So up your rate by 2 bucks an hour.

Keep in mind that I didn't mention the tax advantages of upgrading. If you're doing big business every year and paying half your money in taxes, the deduction from the equipment purchase will bring that figure down drastically lower. (that's USA, of course. Don't know about your location)

Bottom line. Your employers have a clientel that justifies 12 rooms of Protools, but their needs are not being satisfied.

Opportunity.

-R

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#433825 - 11/26/03 09:08 PM Re: Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
Superstrings Offline
Member

Registered: 03/18/02
Posts: 20
Loc: ,,UNITED KINGDOM
Quote:
Originally posted by Henchman:
Quote:
Originally posted by Superstrings:

Henchman,

If it is not too much trouble, could you please expand on what they did to prevent compatibility? Was it something legal? Technical? Is there a site where this is documented? Thanks.

S.
The import and export function was an option that Fairlight paid a licensing fee to DIGI. They then had to remove it a couple of years later, becasue Digi would not allow them to import or export PT's compatible sessions, and they were forced to write it out of future software.

So much for compatabilty. Doon't look towards digi for compatabilty to become an oiption as far as they are concerened. Because it is too much of a threat for them.
Thanks for the info Henchman. So if I understand correctly, DIGI withdrew the license and left Fairlight high and dry, but they could only do that because Fairlight did not develop their own import/export function. Interesting stuff.

S.

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#433826 - 11/26/03 09:28 PM Re: Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
Henchman Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 12/31/00
Posts: 3433
Loc: Vancouver,,CANADA
Quote:
Originally posted by RKrizman:
[QUOTE]Bottom line. Your employers have a clientel that justifies 12 rooms of Protools, but their needs are not being satisfied.

Opportunity.

-R
You seriously hvae no clue about operating a big business. Do you think that upgrading PT systems is the only thing that needs to be taken care of in a large facility.

I am so sick of people with one system thinking they have the answer for large facilities with multiple systems.
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#433827 - 11/26/03 09:29 PM Re: Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
Henchman Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 12/31/00
Posts: 3433
Loc: Vancouver,,CANADA
Quote:
Originally posted by Superstrings:
[QUOTE]Thanks for the info Henchman. So if I understand correctly, DIGI withdrew the license and left Fairlight high and dry, but they could only do that because Fairlight did not develop their own import/export function. Interesting stuff.

S.
No, Fairlight developed the import/export function themselves.
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President George Washington: "The government of the United States is in no sense founded on the Christian Religion."
President Abraham Lincoln: "The Bible is not my book, nor Christianity my religion."

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#433828 - 11/26/03 09:29 PM Re: Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
Henchman Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 12/31/00
Posts: 3433
Loc: Vancouver,,CANADA
dbl post
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President George Washington: "The government of the United States is in no sense founded on the Christian Religion."
President Abraham Lincoln: "The Bible is not my book, nor Christianity my religion."

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#433829 - 11/26/03 09:42 PM Re: Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
Henchman Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 12/31/00
Posts: 3433
Loc: Vancouver,,CANADA
]Originally posted by RKrizman:
Quote:

At least now I know when you're bashing Pro Tools you're talking about some prehistoric version.

-R
So, mixplus with g3's and a few G4's running 5.? (not quite sure, but it's what works without going OSX and dealing with all sorts of other issues), is pre-historic.

Wow, that's a pretty short shelflife, if you ask me. As I said before, I am also running Fairlight MFX3plus systems, that are much older than a Mixplus system. And they run smoother and better than the Mixplus systems that are yaers younger.
_________________________
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President George Washington: "The government of the United States is in no sense founded on the Christian Religion."
President Abraham Lincoln: "The Bible is not my book, nor Christianity my religion."

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#433830 - 11/26/03 09:59 PM Re: Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
Superstrings Offline
Member

Registered: 03/18/02
Posts: 20
Loc: ,,UNITED KINGDOM
Quote:
Originally posted by Superstrings:
Quote:
Originally posted by Henchman:
Quote:
Originally posted by Superstrings:

Henchman,

If it is not too much trouble, could you please expand on what they did to prevent compatibility? Was it something legal? Technical? Is there a site where this is documented? Thanks.

S.
The import and export function was an option that Fairlight paid a licensing fee to DIGI. They then had to remove it a couple of years later, becasue Digi would not allow them to import or export PT's compatible sessions, and they were forced to write it out of future software.

So much for compatabilty. Doon't look towards digi for compatabilty to become an oiption as far as they are concerened. Because it is too much of a threat for them.
Thanks for the info Henchman. So if I understand correctly, DIGI withdrew the license and left Fairlight high and dry, but they could only do that because Fairlight did not develop their own import/export function. Interesting stuff.

S.
???
Amazing!
I have a few things to check. Will be back with comments perhaps. I did not think Digi could stop a company from developing compatibility. Although I knew they were not keen.

S.

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#433831 - 11/26/03 10:20 PM Re: Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
Extreme Mixing Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/03/01
Posts: 440
Loc: Van Nuys ,CA,UNITED STATES
Rkrizman,

I'm with you on upgrading the Pro Tools systems, but you must be on CRACK to even suggest a 15 year loan on a computer system of any kind! When the systems are obsolete (I'm being generous here) you would still have another 8-10 years of payments left. I know of no bank that would loan money on a computer system for a term of more than 5 years.

As for mixing only a minute of the song, Daniel, that's just goofy. Either it's a piece of music, or it's not. When we're talking about mixing, on some level we're talking about art. I think Henchman's challenge is; can you be expressive with this instrument, or do you have to have a console and a Fairlight to express your creative intentions. I'm not sure drawing a picture of just the nose will get you there...Sometimes the puzzle doesn't come together until you get closer to the finished product.

Mixing is not just a question of stacking up lots of pieces of hand picked gear. If it were, anyone who had access to mix documentation sheets from great sounding recordings could do outstanding mixes by just using the monkey see, monkey do method. I think we can all agree that that doesn't work.

As far as not liking the artist, all I can say is that I don't usually get to audition the people I mix for. They pick me because of something they heard, and I try to do the best I can to bring out the best in the artist, because you never know who will hear it and where it will go.

I'll keep up my offer to mix a version of the song.

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#433832 - 11/27/03 05:51 AM Re: Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
Wolfgang Eller Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/19/02
Posts: 84
Loc: Erlangen,,GERMANY
Quote:
Originally posted by Henchman:
[QUOTE]I see no need to do any vocal tuning whatsoever.
So why do you care about the sound at all?

The vocal performance is horrible!

Okay she has a good voice (for that kind of teeny pop music) but did she ever heart the word tuning?

It could be mixed by Bob or Georg or any other first class mixer, without doing the vocal tuning right, it will never reach the second league (and just forget the first).

So again, why do you care about the sound of a song if not even the performance is first class?
_________________________
Wolfgang Eller
SRS Mastering/Germany
http://www.srs-mastering.de

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#433833 - 11/27/03 06:15 AM Re: Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
Henchman Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 12/31/00
Posts: 3433
Loc: Vancouver,,CANADA
Quote:
Originally posted by Wolfgang Eller:
[QUOTE

The vocal performance is horrible!
Sorry, but I have to completely disagree with you on that one.

Or maybe you are they type of person who likes completely perfect autotuned generic soulless vocals.

I don't.
_________________________
IMDB Credit list
President George Washington: "The government of the United States is in no sense founded on the Christian Religion."
President Abraham Lincoln: "The Bible is not my book, nor Christianity my religion."

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#433834 - 11/27/03 08:05 AM Re: Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
Wolfgang Eller Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/19/02
Posts: 84
Loc: Erlangen,,GERMANY
Me too.

But this is not slightly out of tune it´s sometimes way out of tune.

I can imagine if you try to tune it with autotune you have to do it manualy cause otherwise it will be drwan to the wrong next note (She´s sometimes more than 50 cent away from the right note).

You don´t hear that? I´m surprised.
_________________________
Wolfgang Eller
SRS Mastering/Germany
http://www.srs-mastering.de

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#433835 - 11/27/03 08:12 AM Re: Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
Daniel_Dettwiler Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/06/01
Posts: 422
Loc: 4125 riehen,,SWITZERLAND
Quote:
As for mixing only a minute of the song, Daniel, that's just goofy. Either it's a piece of music, or it's not. When we're talking about mixing, on some level we're talking about art. I think Henchman's challenge is; can you be expressive with this instrument, or do you have to have a console and a Fairlight to express your creative intentions. I'm not sure drawing a picture of just the nose will get you there...Sometimes the puzzle doesn't come together until you get closer to the finished product.
I could'nt agree more with your thoughts. But I do think that in this situation we do not judge the skill of the engineer to create 3 minutes of art, we do more like to know: is protools not able to get the same sound as other digital products. To see (or hear ) that one minute is enough. If this was a mixcontest (as made twice in this forum) I would agree that one minute makes no sence, since it is about music, and the skill if a engineer can create an interessting 3 minutes. But if only the sound of a plattform is what is interessting (and thats what henchman likes to see) than one minute is more than enough)

Quote:
As far as not liking the artist, all I can say is that I don't usually get to audition the people I mix for. They pick me because of something they heard, and I try to do the best I can to bring out the best in the artist, because you never know who will hear it and where it will go.
It is my personal opignion that I don't like it, and it should be ok to say that here. Still my offer is to do one minute of that thing.

BTW I would prefear 1000 times if someone neutral would spend some good recorded tracks with a good performance, and then different people (henchman, me, all who want) would mix the files on different DAW's.

Daniel
http://www.ideeundklang.com

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#433836 - 11/27/03 01:04 PM Re: Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
Superstrings Offline
Member

Registered: 03/18/02
Posts: 20
Loc: ,,UNITED KINGDOM
To Henchman,

Regarding Pro Tools import/export on Fairlight, it seems to be fair use to reverse engineer for compatibility purposes. I'm not a lawyer, but it seems pretty clear from some material found on the web:

http://www.lgu.com/publications/softcopy/22.shtml
http://www.computerworld.com/softwaretopics/software/appdev/story/0,10801,65532,00.html

Essentially, reverse engineering for the purpose of compatibility and hence for the benefit of consumers and the advancement of technology seems to be allowed. Of course Digidesign would not like it, exactly like Microsoft does not like Netscape (and I consider Digidesign to be in a monopoly situation within the audio industry nearly similar to Microsoft's within the IT industry - not quite because they have more competitors, but not very different either). I can only suppose that Digidesign had some leverage to make Fairlight stop because of whatever agreement they had signed, or perhaps because Fairlight's code was, even partially, borrowed from Digidesign.

S.

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#433837 - 11/27/03 04:01 PM Re: Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
errol Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 319
Loc: Amsterdam,,NETHERLANDS
Quote:
Originally posted by Wolfgang Eller:
Me too.

But this is not slightly out of tune it´s sometimes way out of tune.

I can imagine if you try to tune it with autotune you have to do it manualy cause otherwise it will be drwan to the wrong next note (She´s sometimes more than 50 cent away from the right note).

You don´t hear that? I´m surprised.
I was curieus about your comment so I also listen to it.
Ofcourse you can hear that the singer is not always pitching the "right note" but if you are complaining about this, then It says more about you then about the singer.

This girl is not bad at all. Music is all about character and not about that somebody sings a little and just a tiny little out of tune.

Probably you don't like Lou Reed either.

Henchman, I only listen to little shit computer monitors so I cannot say about the quality of the mix.

Our tascam M3500 is back from the revision and the first remarkable thing is that the mixes are better then before I mixed everything in protools.

It are the same mixes but right know with the deepnes I couldn't get with my protools setup.

This week I had to master an album which was mixed by a protoolsHD/procontrol studio and even these guys were a little schocked when I showed them my tascam mix.

They were very surprised about the deepness from my tascam mix compared with their own mix.

I think I made the right move.
_________________________
cut-n-clear
Mastering and cdr/dvdr copy centre

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#433838 - 11/27/03 09:55 PM Re: Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
Daniel_Dettwiler Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/06/01
Posts: 422
Loc: 4125 riehen,,SWITZERLAND
Quote:
I was curieus about your comment so I also listen to it.
Ofcourse you can hear that the singer is not always pitching the "right note" but if you are complaining about this, then It says more about you then about the singer
I don't know you, Errol, and I don't know Wolfgang. But what you wrote here Errol, says many things about your person.

Daniel

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#433839 - 11/28/03 12:30 AM Re: Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
Henchman Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 12/31/00
Posts: 3433
Loc: Vancouver,,CANADA
Well, I have posted the song on a couple of other forums, and nobody has found the cocals horriblew or completely out of tune. Or any need at all to tune the vocals.

So. Let's just leave it at that.
_________________________
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President George Washington: "The government of the United States is in no sense founded on the Christian Religion."
President Abraham Lincoln: "The Bible is not my book, nor Christianity my religion."

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#433840 - 11/28/03 05:32 AM Re: Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
adebar Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 07/17/01
Posts: 709
Loc: Wiesbaden, GERMANY
errol wrote
Quote:
Our tascam M3500 is back from the revision and the first remarkable thing is that the mixes are better then before I mixed everything in protools.

It are the same mixes but right know with the deepnes I couldn't get with my protools setup.
The question for me is: isn´t that a general observation when you compare mixes done in the analogue or in the digital domain?

If yes, it has nothing to do with PT.
If no, .....

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#433841 - 11/28/03 06:22 AM Re: Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
errol Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 319
Loc: Amsterdam,,NETHERLANDS
Quote:
Originally posted by adebar:
errol wrote
Quote:
Our tascam M3500 is back from the revision and the first remarkable thing is that the mixes are better then before I mixed everything in protools.

It are the same mixes but right know with the deepnes I couldn't get with my protools setup.
The question for me is: isn´t that a general observation when you compare mixes done in the analogue or in the digital domain?

If yes, it has nothing to do with PT.
If no, .....
nope, it's the "sound" of protools which is different then the "sound" of, for example a nuendo system.

Believe. it cost me a lot of time to find out that the problem was in protools.

Before I combined a O2r with protools.
But I couldn't mix properly.
So I sold the O2r and spend the money on a huge mix+++ system with digi's interfaces wher I put all my synth's in.

I spend a lot of money to fix our studio room last year. Because I thought it was my room.
I also bought westlake monitors and still I had the feeling, although I rebuild the whole studio,
that I couldn't mix properly.

What I did was mixing, putting it on a cdr and then I listen in my mastering room which is a very good sounding room to check for some mix problems.

All the time I was aware of a flat 2 dimensional sound.
I really didn't understand what I did wrong.

Then I spoke with a dance producer.
he told me that most of the good sounding dance producers are using analog mixers.

So that's what I did. I bought a 2hand tascam and it was immediatly hearable.

I even noticed that my room is pretty good to mix.
I hear so many things more then before I used protools.

A half year ago I had to master a funkband which was mixed with nuendo and a dm2000 from yamaha.
That was allready a good sounding mix with more 3 dimensional I ever heard in the digital domain.

But still I'm missing something even with a good DAW like nuendo and good mixer like dm2000.

I guess it's not my cup of tea.

btw Daniel. I remember suddenly that you were the guy who wanted to master in our place a time ago.
Then I offered you to do a song for free.
But because you were in a hurry I only could do it with fedex.
The only thing what you had to do was pay the fedex costs.
You never contacted me after you realized you had to pay for fedex. Not even a small email that the deal was not going on.

Does that says more about your person?

What I was trying to say is that there are a lot of guys here in the bussiness who are only busy with specs and technical stuff.
The same with music. They only listen to it if they can find a mistake.
Same with software.
They never enjoy music as it is.

I'm not saying this guy is like this but it looks like it.
That's all.
_________________________
cut-n-clear
Mastering and cdr/dvdr copy centre

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#433842 - 11/28/03 07:47 AM Re: Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
Daniel_Dettwiler Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/06/01
Posts: 422
Loc: 4125 riehen,,SWITZERLAND
Quote:
btw Daniel. I remember suddenly that you were the guy who wanted to master in our place a time ago.
Then I offered you to do a song for free.
But because you were in a hurry I only could do it with fedex.
The only thing what you had to do was pay the fedex costs.
You never contacted me after you realized you had to pay for fedex. Not even a small email that the deal was not going on
Yep. But even with fedex, the producer desicded that it would not be time enough to master the whole CD at your place incase we'd liked your demo. So he desided that he did not want the try and we did it in Switzerland. Sorry if I not have sent you an email, you are right, I should have done that. I hope this says not toomuch about my person... I still consider you as an option for master projects I am working on. However I am not sure if I can give my mixes to a guy that must think that everything coming out of my place sounds like shit because PToTools is in the game?

Daniel
http://www.ideeundklang.com

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#433843 - 11/28/03 08:10 AM Re: Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
sign Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 2216
Loc: NETHERLANDS
Now there is some proof that PT can even cost you clients. :p
_________________________
The alchemy of the masters moving molecules of air, we capture by moving particles of iron, so that the poetry of the ancients will echo into the future.

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#433844 - 11/28/03 10:47 AM Re: Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
errol Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 319
Loc: Amsterdam,,NETHERLANDS
Quote:
Originally posted by Daniel_Dettwiler:
Quote:
btw Daniel. I remember suddenly that you were the guy who wanted to master in our place a time ago.
Then I offered you to do a song for free.
But because you were in a hurry I only could do it with fedex.
The only thing what you had to do was pay the fedex costs.
You never contacted me after you realized you had to pay for fedex. Not even a small email that the deal was not going on
Yep. But even with fedex, the producer desicded that it would not be time enough to master the whole CD at your place incase we'd liked your demo. So he desided that he did not want the try and we did it in Switzerland. Sorry if I not have sent you an email, you are right, I should have done that. I hope this says not toomuch about my person... I still consider you as an option for master projects I am working on. However I am not sure if I can give my mixes to a guy that must think that everything coming out of my place sounds like shit because PToTools is in the game?

Daniel
http://www.ideeundklang.com
I tell you what Daniel,

In the first place, don't get me wrong with "the person thing" I'm not angry or whatever.
It was more an example of when you say what kind of person somebody is or not.
In your case, it's not about you, this happens a lot and I can understand why you didn't mail me.
It happens only when you are in the middle of a busy company.

but you if you like you can send me a mix from your studio. In 24bit if you like.
I'm always open for suggestions.
In your case I'm curious about your mixes.

I'm not anti digidesign although I still haven't heard a mix without that typical flat sound.
I will listen yo your work with a open mind, so don't worry I'm a pro and as a mastering engineer I always listen objective.

Tell me if you send it to me and I will email you my adress.

btw,

Have a nice weekend.
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cut-n-clear
Mastering and cdr/dvdr copy centre

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#433845 - 11/28/03 01:11 PM Re: Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
Daniel_Dettwiler Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/06/01
Posts: 422
Loc: 4125 riehen,,SWITZERLAND
Quote:
I tell you what Daniel,

In the first place, don't get me wrong with "the person thing" I'm not angry or whatever.
It was more an example of when you say what kind of person somebody is or not.
In your case, it's not about you, this happens a lot and I can understand why you didn't mail me.
It happens only when you are in the middle of a busy company.

but you if you like you can send me a mix from your studio. In 24bit if you like.
I'm always open for suggestions.
In your case I'm curious about your mixes.

I'm not anti digidesign although I still haven't heard a mix without that typical flat sound.
I will listen yo your work with a open mind, so don't worry I'm a pro and as a mastering engineer I always listen objective.

Tell me if you send it to me and I will email you my adress.

btw,

Have a nice weekend.
Thats a cool Idea. I am starting a bigger german project very soon, with great artits (Herbert Grönemeyer, Nena, Thomas D and many others. There is a big orchestra and band aswell). I d'love to send you the first mixed song. The projects is with the same producer as the project, where we did not have time to check you out.

Best
Daniel

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#433846 - 11/28/03 02:30 PM Re: Which company has or had the best opprotunity to compete with Pro Tools?
axiamusic Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/01/01
Posts: 102
Loc: LONDON, UNITED KINGDOM
Hi guys & girls,

I just wanted to let you know that Errol mastered a pretty bad mix I did about a year ago, and he made a massive improvement! I will soon be in the position to be asking him for his services again, as I have been very disappointed with some of the so-called top mastering studios here in London who charge more than double Errol's price!

My experience in London with 2 very respected mastering places was very similar. More top end EQ, more bottom, multiband compression on a TC 6000 and bam! I didn't feel the engineers really listened to the tracks. They just did what they're used to doing. The artists ultimately preferred my mastering, all done within Wavelab! That is very sad.

Not so with Errol. He did what I could not do within my PC, which is why I will be using him again very soon. I'm sure Errol is blushing now! Sorry, but I just wanted to let you all know that he really knows his craft of mastering music. And for the record, I'm also not a big Pro Tools fan, but I have heard some good mixes done with it!

Chris

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