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#433415 - 10/26/03 03:14 PM Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
trojanmusicmajor Offline
Member

Registered: 10/12/03
Posts: 10
Watsup guys,
I am currently running a pc using nuendo and apogee converters, But it is becoming painfully obvious that I need to get protools. My question is what advantages, other than the high sampling rate, does the Hd have over mix plus? I can get a mix plus loaded with plugins for about half the cost of an hd rig, in which I would have to shell out a couple thousand just to get the essential plug ins. What are the differences in the software itself, in the computers I can use them on, and any features in HD that you cannot live without?I really appreciate any responses.

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#433416 - 10/26/03 05:27 PM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
EXAGON Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 07/03/02
Posts: 1358
Loc: Switzerland
The only difference (apart more plugin instances) is headroom.
Everything else is 1:1 EQUAL
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http://johnhope.blogspot.com/

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#433417 - 10/26/03 06:28 PM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
trojanmusicmajor Offline
Member

Registered: 10/12/03
Posts: 10
headroom?? as in dynamic range headroom. Wouldnt that be up to my mic pres. Also do you know if you can use mix plus hardware in nuendo with asio drivers??

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#433418 - 10/26/03 10:08 PM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
Loopy C Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 03/05/01
Posts: 702
Loc: Valyermo,CA,UNITED STATES
Here are a couple of the significant differences. Support for sample rates above 48k (96/192) with the appropiate hardware. Completely rewritten TDM buss design (TDM II). These two factors are creating a new market for plug-ins that run at higher resolution internally. It is a current theory that some of the complaints concerning Protools is due to plug-in quality so this is something to keep in mind. I currently use Mix24+ w/Logic/TDM Bridge and will wait AT LEAST another generation before even considering a upgrade. In other words, other than some "new gear" envy and interest in some of the new plug-ins (like Massenburgs EQ) I am quite happy with my MIX 24+. And frankly, we are talking about significant differences in cost, I am done refinancing for awhile and nothing is forcing me to switch music wise. So good luck.
_________________________
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aka Loopy C
Micworks
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#433419 - 10/27/03 02:26 AM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
E-Lambo Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 09/14/00
Posts: 529
What about the interfaces? I haven't used HD personally, but everyone who has says that the new HD interfaces (192 and 96 I/Os) sound much better than the 888s or 882s, etc.

Also, isn't the new mix buss supposed to sound better? This was a major complaint of those who complained about ProTools.

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#433420 - 10/27/03 02:31 AM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
AEW Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/01
Posts: 205
Loc: Sydney,,AUSTRALIA
An other thing to consider is that HD gives you a 128 track count where Mix you get 64.
If u can get a mix system cheaply go for it but I suggest getting an ADAT 24 Bridge with Apogee AD converters.

Nick

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#433421 - 10/27/03 02:33 AM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
E-Lambo Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 09/14/00
Posts: 529
...

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#433422 - 10/27/03 03:30 AM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
Loopy C Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 03/05/01
Posts: 702
Loc: Valyermo,CA,UNITED STATES
No doubt on the 888, thumbs down. I went with ADAT bridges and Apogee myself. A lot of options going with the ADAT interface these days. I am still not clear that the new bus design has changed that much, but thats a can of worms that has been beaten to death. Mainly everyone has commented on the convertors and clock of the HD interfaces so an old Mix system WITH ADAT bridge and good convertors should go a long way.
_________________________
Chris R. Gibson
aka Loopy C
Micworks
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#433423 - 10/27/03 04:41 AM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
Henchman Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 12/31/00
Posts: 3433
Loc: Vancouver,,CANADA
Quote:
Originally posted by trojanmusicmajor:
Watsup guys,
I am currently running a pc using nuendo and apogee converters, But it is becoming painfully obvious that I need to get protools.
Just wondering. Why?
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#433424 - 10/27/03 05:01 AM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
Wolfgang Eller Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/19/02
Posts: 84
Loc: Erlangen,,GERMANY
Quote:
Originally posted by The Officially Insigned TROLL of EF:
The only difference (apart more plugin instances) is headroom.
Everything else is 1:1 EQUAL
If you ever used PT HD (as you mentioned in another threat) you should have known better.
_________________________
Wolfgang Eller
SRS Mastering/Germany
http://www.srs-mastering.de

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#433425 - 10/27/03 09:30 AM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
adebar Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 07/17/01
Posts: 709
Loc: Wiesbaden, GERMANY
Quote:
Originally posted by trojanmusicmajor:
Watsup guys,
I am currently running a pc using nuendo and apogee converters, But it is becoming painfully obvious that I need to get protools.

Just wondering. Why?
Yes, whatīs the problem with Nuendo?

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#433426 - 10/27/03 02:49 PM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
EXAGON Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 07/03/02
Posts: 1358
Loc: Switzerland
If you care about the sound, don't go pro tools, go Sonic Solutions, Logic, Nuendo, Waveframe, or Capricorn, Dream, Scenaria (used maybe) or NED (used of course)
_________________________
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http://johnhope.blogspot.com/

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#433427 - 10/27/03 03:24 PM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
System 8 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/01/02
Posts: 236
"If you care about the sound, don't go pro tools, go Sonic Solutions, Logic, Nuendo, Waveframe, or Capricorn, Dream, Scenaria (used maybe) or NED (used of course)"

It has to do a lot more with the converters, mic's and mic placement. I have never understood people who have said such statements. All engines on the software mentioned above are all great.

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#433428 - 10/27/03 07:43 PM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
chuck.dallas Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/01/03
Posts: 36
Loc: Dallas
Trojan, I think the biggest thing I gained by moving from MixPlus to HD was the sound quality. There was a noticeable difference between the two with HD being clearly better, even at the lower sample rates (44.1/48 kHz). I think previous posts have already identified things that contributed to that (much better audio interfaces, ie 192 I/O; new bus architecture, etc). The increase in DSP power and voice/track counts was nice too.

Depending on your personal situation and needs, however, the MixPlus system might be a good fit. Hope this helps. Good luck!

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#433429 - 10/27/03 07:51 PM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
EXAGON Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 07/03/02
Posts: 1358
Loc: Switzerland
It's not a question of sound taste.
It's a question of BUGGY digidesign SOUND
Compare them and L I S T E N
_________________________
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http://johnhope.blogspot.com/

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#433430 - 10/28/03 02:19 AM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
trojanmusicmajor Offline
Member

Registered: 10/12/03
Posts: 10
Well to be honset I love nuendo, the only reason why I need to get protools is to get clients. When I tell people Im using nuendo they laugh and hang up the phone. When people hear my examples they dopnt seem to mind waht Im using.

Got a question though, according to what was released at aes I can use my rosetta 800 to interface with protools. Anyone know if I can use 96k with the rosetta and mix plus, or is the sampling rate a software limitation.

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#433431 - 10/28/03 02:32 AM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
trojanmusicmajor Offline
Member

Registered: 10/12/03
Posts: 10
I got an idea, wonderin what you guys thought. Keeping both system and having both hooked up to the same external hard drive. This was I can record into protools and get the clinets this way, use all of my vsts in nuendo, and mix it all in protools?? I know this sounds a little over the top, but I wouldnt loose all my vst invetments, and I would have a huge chunk of processing power.

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#433432 - 10/28/03 03:30 AM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
Philip O'Keefe Offline
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Registered: 12/17/00
Posts: 17674
Loc: Riverside,CA,UNITED STATES
Quote:
Originally posted by trojanmusicmajor:
Got a question though, according to what was released at aes I can use my rosetta 800 to interface with protools. Anyone know if I can use 96k with the rosetta and mix plus, or is the sampling rate a software limitation.
PT Mix systems are limited to 48 KHz maximum sample rate and using third party software isn't going to change that. Sorry.
_________________________
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Sound Sanctuary Recording
Riverside CA
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#433433 - 10/28/03 04:46 AM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
Henchman Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 12/31/00
Posts: 3433
Loc: Vancouver,,CANADA
Buy a Pro-Tools LE system, like a digi 001 or 002, and save yourself the cash.
Then, you can say you have Pro-Tools and Nuendo.
_________________________
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President Abraham Lincoln: "The Bible is not my book, nor Christianity my religion."

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#433434 - 10/28/03 05:37 AM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
Jotown Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 07/04/02
Posts: 4413
Loc: The Galactic Center (°26 Sagit...
Quote:
Originally posted by Henchman:
Buy a Pro-Tools LE system, like a digi 001 or 002, and save yourself the cash.
Then, you can say you have Pro-Tools and Nuendo.
Bingo.
_________________________
Jotown:)

"It's all good: Except when it's Great"

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#433435 - 10/28/03 09:12 PM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
Max_dup1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/24/01
Posts: 58
Loc: Santa Monica,CA,UNITED STATES
Quote:
Originally posted by Philip O'Keefe:
PT Mix systems are limited to 48 KHz maximum sample rate and using third party software isn't going to change that. Sorry.
One of the features of the DigiMix card for the Rosetta 800 is the ability to sample split up to four channels at 96K in Pro Tools Mix systems.

This allows you to archive sessions at 88.2K or 96K in 44.1K or 48K sessions. simple fades and cut and past editing is all you'll get, and no plug-ins. The idea here is to allow you to archive or mix down at higher sample rates if needed.
_________________________
Max Gutnik
Director of Sales
Apogee Electronics

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#433436 - 10/28/03 10:13 PM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
EXAGON Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 07/03/02
Posts: 1358
Loc: Switzerland
Quote:
Originally posted by Henchman:
Buy a Pro-Tools LE system, like a digi 001 or 002, and save yourself the cash.
Then, you can say you have Pro-Tools and Nuendo.
This was my temptation when switched to Logic. I was tempted to buy an Mbox just to say to clients that i had PT too.
But at the end i knew that i would NEVER had used pt again, and i knew that my clients wanted the best, just the best, and i knew i would have done it in Logic.
So i didn't buy pro tools, i just produce in Logic, showing
the clients how more modern and rich DAW Logic is.
They were astonished by the features and by the sound.
Now they only want to work in Logic.

But returning to the thread, apart interfaces and headroom, they are the same
_________________________
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http://johnhope.blogspot.com/

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#433437 - 10/28/03 10:18 PM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
EXAGON Offline
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Registered: 07/03/02
Posts: 1358
Loc: Switzerland
safari bug
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#433438 - 10/28/03 10:19 PM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
EXAGON Offline
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Registered: 07/03/02
Posts: 1358
Loc: Switzerland
_________________________
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#433439 - 10/28/03 10:20 PM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
EXAGON Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 07/03/02
Posts: 1358
Loc: Switzerland
_________________________
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#433440 - 10/28/03 11:06 PM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
trojanmusicmajor Offline
Member

Registered: 10/12/03
Posts: 10
Im with you, I ve found that nuendo is my choice, but I get people who are real close minded. Remember Im in Los angeles, and there alot of studios that I'm competing with. Also by having a protools rig, I can begin to rent the studio to protools users. Thinkin I might just go hd, hopefully it will pay for itself.

Anyone know how compatible nuendo and protools projects are as far as omf files??

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#433441 - 10/29/03 06:42 AM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
adebar Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 07/17/01
Posts: 709
Loc: Wiesbaden, GERMANY
I would never buy a audio tool Iīm not convinced of.

Imagine nobody were convinced of system X but everybody just buy it because they think it is THE standard.
In the end most had the system they donīt like.

If Nuendo is good for you I wouldnīt consider PT and either save the money or spent it for tools which makes my work better, or the workflow easier/faster.

BTW - I have PT LE and consider Nuendo or Logic for a better workflow.

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#433442 - 11/02/03 06:09 PM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
errol Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 319
Loc: Amsterdam,,NETHERLANDS
Quote:
Originally posted by Henchman:
Buy a Pro-Tools LE system, like a digi 001 or 002, and save yourself the cash.
Then, you can say you have Pro-Tools and Nuendo.
I couldn't say it better.
It must be a dutch thing \:D

But believe me protools is not the future.
nuendo is much easier in use then protools software.

And the politics of digidesign is very sneaky.

You invest a lot of money in cards, they have in between a new card so you have to upgrade before then and then.

After that very soon there will come a totally new card with new convertors.

And guess what, it will sound hearable better then the first HD.

This bullshit I've heard the last 10 years.

I bought last week a analog mixer because of the 2 dimension mixes I had to listen too.

Guess what again. My mixes are 3D and I can mix a song 3times faster then if I have to do it with a procontrol.

procontrol, my ass. Digidesign is trying to control us with very sneaky things.

When I started with protools 10 years ago everybody laught about that )yes also on the phone)

Right know the same people probably who laught about that are using protools.

Now I'm laughing because they are forgotten how mixes can be.

buy a second hand digishitthing and let them show your nuendo mixes because I'm 100% sure that they will love that more.
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#433443 - 11/02/03 07:12 PM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
Injun Killer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/10/03
Posts: 263
Quote:
Originally posted by trojanmusicmajor:
[QB]Well to be honset I love nuendo, the only reason why I need to get protools is to get clients. When I tell people Im using nuendo they laugh and hang up the phone.
Oh, man. It hurts me to hear that. I've had to deal with the same crap. I'm a Nuendo user, and I honestly wouldn't use PT HD if it was free.

PT studios go out of their way to spread misinformation about Nuendo. They LIE to clients to get business. I refuse to give one cent to that company.

You should find out if there is a demand for analog in your area. The price of used 2" machines is at an all-time low right now. Positioning yourself as a unique studio, instead of being a clone of 1,000 other studios, might get you farther. Or it might not.

Remember that word of mouth is your biggest source of clients. The tricky part is getting clients in the first place.
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#433444 - 11/02/03 07:23 PM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
adebar Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 07/17/01
Posts: 709
Loc: Wiesbaden, GERMANY
Quote:
Positioning yourself as a unique studio, instead of being a clone of 1,000 other studios, might get you farther. Or it might not.
Well said!

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#433445 - 11/03/03 06:24 AM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
errol Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 319
Loc: Amsterdam,,NETHERLANDS
Yes Pricey,

well said.

We have also a mastering company (no no no, not with protools) and I begin to hate the mixes I receive from protools also HD.
It's a sort of HiFiMP3 sound.

If I'm at the aes or something I was always surpised about the things they said.
This is new and this is very special, and I always thought, I use this in another program for years.

They try to convince people that every mix is totally done in protools but they don't tell you that the big studio's use their ssl's or similar tables where all the audio goes through.

I have a big mix++++ setup.
I upgraded so many times and every time the dealer told that it was worth to spend another $7000,- because of the power of the dsp or blablabla.

I decided to stop with digi.

Even my dealer stopped with digidesign because of all the lies.

Did you know that in the beginning there were secret lists from digidesign only for the dealer because there were so many problems/bugs.
If you told digi that there were problems with this or that they denied it.
Never heard about it, what are you talking about, it's your mac.

The next time they come up with a new update and guess what, in the bugfixing list all the problems you told them, and they denied, were fixed.

I'm glad that there are more people here on the forums who use their ears inplace of their eyes.
_________________________
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#433446 - 11/03/03 01:09 PM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
ptuzer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/24/02
Posts: 479
Loc: Toronto
Maybe if you took all that Cracked software off your computer you would have less problems.

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#433447 - 11/03/03 01:47 PM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
sign Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 2216
Loc: NETHERLANDS
But some cracked software works better than the original, because the crackers also removed the bugs! (Steinberg Nuendo 2.01)
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#433448 - 11/03/03 02:59 PM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
errol Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 319
Loc: Amsterdam,,NETHERLANDS
Quote:
Originally posted by ptuzer:
Maybe if you took all that Cracked software off your computer you would have less problems.
Hi ptuzer,

You mean that I have cracked software on my system????

Please, do me a favor and wash your mouth.
This really hurts me.
I spend so much money on tdm plugins in the last 10 years.
And I use so less tdm plugins in the last year.

I know you have a huge (7 cards right?) HD system.
Are you really mix everything in protools or are you using a analog mixer.

If not, I suggest to try that out.
Believe me, you will be very surprised of what you missed before.

I'm not joking at all. This is a very serious topic. digidesign is in mine opnion worse then microsoft was for OS systems.
We are talking about a company who is trying to manipulate people to make them think that tape (for example) is dead.

Ever listen to 24 track 2" analog? or 1/4 - 1/2" tape??
If not then you really don't know what you are missing.
Then I can understand.

But ptuzer, even my old sadie system (10 years old) sounds better in recording and play then protools HD.

And I still use my sadies.

Next year or maybe earlier your digi rack is not a penny worth.

But because of the mastering which is a part of my job, I have proofe enough that also protools HD sucks if it's about a very open 3dimensional mix.

If you can proove that you can make a open mix with a lot of deepness inside protools HD then I believe it, but right know nobody prooved that.

I warn all my clients not to go to studio's who advertise with protoolsHD/Procontroll.
These studio's sounds all the same.

It's like a preset synthesizer.
Doesn't matter who is using it because it sounds all the same.
_________________________
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#433449 - 11/03/03 05:36 PM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
EXAGON Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 07/03/02
Posts: 1358
Loc: Switzerland
Clients ask you for a Ford? (Pro tools)
you can say you have now a Jaguar (put a great DAW here).
I want my clients to be happy with my work. That's why i cannot use PT, i need more power, more features, more sound.
The client will thank you.
_________________________
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(John Hope, 2003)
http://johnhope.blogspot.com/

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#433450 - 11/04/03 06:27 AM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
errol Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 319
Loc: Amsterdam,,NETHERLANDS
So what you telling us, is that we have to convince the client that protools is an illusion.

That's a very good idea.
I think it's our responsability to proove that mixes are better of without protools.

And that's easy because since I do not mix anymore in protools I can mix the same mix in 3-4 times faster then before.
And another thing, it's the first time that I have dynamics and deepnes in the mix.

Proove enough that it is not me but protools.
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#433451 - 11/15/03 01:23 AM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
Chuck Moore Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 724
Loc: Nashville
Educating the clients is definately the way to go. After they see and hear Nuendo it is usually a slam dunk. But i still keep an LE system around just to be able to say "yeah I've got pro tools" on the phone. If ya can't get em in the door, you can't educate them at all. Just play them the same trax mixed in both systems, the difference between the two will be convincing.
_________________________
Chuck Moore

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#433452 - 11/21/03 05:25 PM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
tom@aerovons.com Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/15/00
Posts: 257
Loc: UNITED STATES
I have a TDM Mix Plus system on a Mac.

I have heard a lot of things about Nuendo, good and bad, but generally way more good than bad.

Is there any way for me on my Mac Dual 1G to use Nuendo and see for myself? What would I need and how much would it cost?

Last time I checked, I was told to forget Nuendo on the Mac. I'm not about to give up my Mac so if that's true I guess I'll never know.

But I am really sick of Digi's hardware chase. I just don't make enough money to keep sinking cash into hardware. I'm a composer, not a production house, and getting this TDM rig was a big deal. One year later, the HD system came out and Digi wanted 5000 more from me to upgrade. Forget it.

So I'm looking for more options, and an engineer friend of mine who was a Pro Tools guy started using Nuendo and just raves about it. Says it kills Pro Tools in sound. Other folks say they went over to it, thought it was a joke and undependable, had tons of latency, etc, and came back to PT. So I'm trying to see for myself.

Any suggestions appreciated!

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#433453 - 11/22/03 02:07 AM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
Chuck Moore Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 724
Loc: Nashville
It's been my totally unscientific observations thus far that Nuendo is much more stable on the PC platform. I understand the mac situation has improved of late however. Dig now has ASIO drivers for their interfaces, so you could use your current hardware to try it out.
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#433454 - 11/27/03 09:47 PM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
Superstrings Offline
Member

Registered: 03/18/02
Posts: 20
Loc: ,,UNITED KINGDOM
Errol,

Glad I'm not the only one who spotted the parallel between Microsoft and Digidesign. It is dangerous when the clients dictate the tool that the specialist should use. Having Pro Tools also makes one ordinary and disposable. It is the standard indeed. Like the NS10s were. What a great comparison.

S.

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#433455 - 11/28/03 06:25 AM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
errol Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 319
Loc: Amsterdam,,NETHERLANDS
Quote:
Originally posted by Superstrings:
Errol,

Glad I'm not the only one who spotted the parallel between Microsoft and Digidesign. It is dangerous when the clients dictate the tool that the specialist should use. Having Pro Tools also makes one ordinary and disposable. It is the standard indeed. Like the NS10s were. What a great comparison.

S.
I still have my NS10's hehehe \:D
What's wrong with that
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#433456 - 11/28/03 07:09 AM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
Superstrings Offline
Member

Registered: 03/18/02
Posts: 20
Loc: ,,UNITED KINGDOM
The NS10 comparison is because while they are/were also a "standard", it does not mean they are the best monitors around.

S.

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#433457 - 11/28/03 07:44 AM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
sign Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 2216
Loc: NETHERLANDS
Yep, let's talk about NS10's \:D

When I bought them some seven or eight years ago I thought the sound was horrible and the only thing I could do was put them in the litterbox.

But there's something special about this nasty sounding little monitor that I can't miss, you can hear problems in the sound and balance. I still don't like the sound, but I cant miss them either.

Oh and Giovanni, I still have a genuine Jaguar since 1976, Old British Racing Green and original paint. If you don't believe me, ask Errol. :p
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#433458 - 11/28/03 12:02 PM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
errol Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 319
Loc: Amsterdam,,NETHERLANDS
Quote:
Originally posted by Superstrings:
The NS10 comparison is because while they are/were also a "standard", it does not mean they are the best monitors around.

S.
I know superstring, I was just joking.

The ns10's will not winning the price of best sounded monitors I guess.
but the can be handy.
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