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#433415 - 10/26/03 03:14 PM Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
trojanmusicmajor Offline
Member

Registered: 10/12/03
Posts: 10
Watsup guys,
I am currently running a pc using nuendo and apogee converters, But it is becoming painfully obvious that I need to get protools. My question is what advantages, other than the high sampling rate, does the Hd have over mix plus? I can get a mix plus loaded with plugins for about half the cost of an hd rig, in which I would have to shell out a couple thousand just to get the essential plug ins. What are the differences in the software itself, in the computers I can use them on, and any features in HD that you cannot live without?I really appreciate any responses.

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#433416 - 10/26/03 05:27 PM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
EXAGON Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 07/03/02
Posts: 1358
Loc: Switzerland
The only difference (apart more plugin instances) is headroom.
Everything else is 1:1 EQUAL
_________________________
\:\) Features Are Not An Opinion. \:\)
(John Hope, 2003)
http://johnhope.blogspot.com/

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#433417 - 10/26/03 06:28 PM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
trojanmusicmajor Offline
Member

Registered: 10/12/03
Posts: 10
headroom?? as in dynamic range headroom. Wouldnt that be up to my mic pres. Also do you know if you can use mix plus hardware in nuendo with asio drivers??

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#433418 - 10/26/03 10:08 PM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
Loopy C Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 03/05/01
Posts: 702
Loc: Valyermo,CA,UNITED STATES
Here are a couple of the significant differences. Support for sample rates above 48k (96/192) with the appropiate hardware. Completely rewritten TDM buss design (TDM II). These two factors are creating a new market for plug-ins that run at higher resolution internally. It is a current theory that some of the complaints concerning Protools is due to plug-in quality so this is something to keep in mind. I currently use Mix24+ w/Logic/TDM Bridge and will wait AT LEAST another generation before even considering a upgrade. In other words, other than some "new gear" envy and interest in some of the new plug-ins (like Massenburgs EQ) I am quite happy with my MIX 24+. And frankly, we are talking about significant differences in cost, I am done refinancing for awhile and nothing is forcing me to switch music wise. So good luck.
_________________________
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aka Loopy C
Micworks
Ken Tamplin Mastering

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#433419 - 10/27/03 02:26 AM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
E-Lambo Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 09/14/00
Posts: 529
What about the interfaces? I haven't used HD personally, but everyone who has says that the new HD interfaces (192 and 96 I/Os) sound much better than the 888s or 882s, etc.

Also, isn't the new mix buss supposed to sound better? This was a major complaint of those who complained about ProTools.

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#433420 - 10/27/03 02:31 AM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
AEW Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/01
Posts: 205
Loc: Sydney,,AUSTRALIA
An other thing to consider is that HD gives you a 128 track count where Mix you get 64.
If u can get a mix system cheaply go for it but I suggest getting an ADAT 24 Bridge with Apogee AD converters.

Nick

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#433421 - 10/27/03 02:33 AM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
E-Lambo Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 09/14/00
Posts: 529
...

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#433422 - 10/27/03 03:30 AM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
Loopy C Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 03/05/01
Posts: 702
Loc: Valyermo,CA,UNITED STATES
No doubt on the 888, thumbs down. I went with ADAT bridges and Apogee myself. A lot of options going with the ADAT interface these days. I am still not clear that the new bus design has changed that much, but thats a can of worms that has been beaten to death. Mainly everyone has commented on the convertors and clock of the HD interfaces so an old Mix system WITH ADAT bridge and good convertors should go a long way.
_________________________
Chris R. Gibson
aka Loopy C
Micworks
Ken Tamplin Mastering

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#433423 - 10/27/03 04:41 AM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
Henchman Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 12/31/00
Posts: 3433
Loc: Vancouver,,CANADA
Quote:
Originally posted by trojanmusicmajor:
Watsup guys,
I am currently running a pc using nuendo and apogee converters, But it is becoming painfully obvious that I need to get protools.
Just wondering. Why?
_________________________
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President George Washington: "The government of the United States is in no sense founded on the Christian Religion."
President Abraham Lincoln: "The Bible is not my book, nor Christianity my religion."

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#433424 - 10/27/03 05:01 AM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
Wolfgang Eller Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/19/02
Posts: 84
Loc: Erlangen,,GERMANY
Quote:
Originally posted by The Officially Insigned TROLL of EF:
The only difference (apart more plugin instances) is headroom.
Everything else is 1:1 EQUAL
If you ever used PT HD (as you mentioned in another threat) you should have known better.
_________________________
Wolfgang Eller
SRS Mastering/Germany
http://www.srs-mastering.de

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#433425 - 10/27/03 09:30 AM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
adebar Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 07/17/01
Posts: 709
Loc: Wiesbaden, GERMANY
Quote:
Originally posted by trojanmusicmajor:
Watsup guys,
I am currently running a pc using nuendo and apogee converters, But it is becoming painfully obvious that I need to get protools.

Just wondering. Why?
Yes, whatīs the problem with Nuendo?

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#433426 - 10/27/03 02:49 PM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
EXAGON Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 07/03/02
Posts: 1358
Loc: Switzerland
If you care about the sound, don't go pro tools, go Sonic Solutions, Logic, Nuendo, Waveframe, or Capricorn, Dream, Scenaria (used maybe) or NED (used of course)
_________________________
\:\) Features Are Not An Opinion. \:\)
(John Hope, 2003)
http://johnhope.blogspot.com/

Addresse:
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#433427 - 10/27/03 03:24 PM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
System 8 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/01/02
Posts: 236
"If you care about the sound, don't go pro tools, go Sonic Solutions, Logic, Nuendo, Waveframe, or Capricorn, Dream, Scenaria (used maybe) or NED (used of course)"

It has to do a lot more with the converters, mic's and mic placement. I have never understood people who have said such statements. All engines on the software mentioned above are all great.

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#433428 - 10/27/03 07:43 PM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
chuck.dallas Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/01/03
Posts: 36
Loc: Dallas
Trojan, I think the biggest thing I gained by moving from MixPlus to HD was the sound quality. There was a noticeable difference between the two with HD being clearly better, even at the lower sample rates (44.1/48 kHz). I think previous posts have already identified things that contributed to that (much better audio interfaces, ie 192 I/O; new bus architecture, etc). The increase in DSP power and voice/track counts was nice too.

Depending on your personal situation and needs, however, the MixPlus system might be a good fit. Hope this helps. Good luck!

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#433429 - 10/27/03 07:51 PM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
EXAGON Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 07/03/02
Posts: 1358
Loc: Switzerland
It's not a question of sound taste.
It's a question of BUGGY digidesign SOUND
Compare them and L I S T E N
_________________________
\:\) Features Are Not An Opinion. \:\)
(John Hope, 2003)
http://johnhope.blogspot.com/

Addresse:
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#433430 - 10/28/03 02:19 AM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
trojanmusicmajor Offline
Member

Registered: 10/12/03
Posts: 10
Well to be honset I love nuendo, the only reason why I need to get protools is to get clients. When I tell people Im using nuendo they laugh and hang up the phone. When people hear my examples they dopnt seem to mind waht Im using.

Got a question though, according to what was released at aes I can use my rosetta 800 to interface with protools. Anyone know if I can use 96k with the rosetta and mix plus, or is the sampling rate a software limitation.

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#433431 - 10/28/03 02:32 AM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
trojanmusicmajor Offline
Member

Registered: 10/12/03
Posts: 10
I got an idea, wonderin what you guys thought. Keeping both system and having both hooked up to the same external hard drive. This was I can record into protools and get the clinets this way, use all of my vsts in nuendo, and mix it all in protools?? I know this sounds a little over the top, but I wouldnt loose all my vst invetments, and I would have a huge chunk of processing power.

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#433432 - 10/28/03 03:30 AM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
Philip O'Keefe Offline
10k Club

Registered: 12/17/00
Posts: 17674
Loc: Riverside,CA,UNITED STATES
Quote:
Originally posted by trojanmusicmajor:
Got a question though, according to what was released at aes I can use my rosetta 800 to interface with protools. Anyone know if I can use 96k with the rosetta and mix plus, or is the sampling rate a software limitation.
PT Mix systems are limited to 48 KHz maximum sample rate and using third party software isn't going to change that. Sorry.
_________________________
Phil O'Keefe
Sound Sanctuary Recording
Riverside CA
http://www.ssrstudio.com
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pokeefe777@ssrstudio.com
My New Forum on Harmony-Central

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#433433 - 10/28/03 04:46 AM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
Henchman Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 12/31/00
Posts: 3433
Loc: Vancouver,,CANADA
Buy a Pro-Tools LE system, like a digi 001 or 002, and save yourself the cash.
Then, you can say you have Pro-Tools and Nuendo.
_________________________
IMDB Credit list
President George Washington: "The government of the United States is in no sense founded on the Christian Religion."
President Abraham Lincoln: "The Bible is not my book, nor Christianity my religion."

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#433434 - 10/28/03 05:37 AM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
Jotown Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 07/04/02
Posts: 4413
Loc: The Galactic Center (°26 Sagit...
Quote:
Originally posted by Henchman:
Buy a Pro-Tools LE system, like a digi 001 or 002, and save yourself the cash.
Then, you can say you have Pro-Tools and Nuendo.
Bingo.
_________________________
Jotown:)

"It's all good: Except when it's Great"

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#433435 - 10/28/03 09:12 PM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
Max_dup1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/24/01
Posts: 58
Loc: Santa Monica,CA,UNITED STATES
Quote:
Originally posted by Philip O'Keefe:
PT Mix systems are limited to 48 KHz maximum sample rate and using third party software isn't going to change that. Sorry.
One of the features of the DigiMix card for the Rosetta 800 is the ability to sample split up to four channels at 96K in Pro Tools Mix systems.

This allows you to archive sessions at 88.2K or 96K in 44.1K or 48K sessions. simple fades and cut and past editing is all you'll get, and no plug-ins. The idea here is to allow you to archive or mix down at higher sample rates if needed.
_________________________
Max Gutnik
Director of Sales
Apogee Electronics

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#433436 - 10/28/03 10:13 PM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
EXAGON Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 07/03/02
Posts: 1358
Loc: Switzerland
Quote:
Originally posted by Henchman:
Buy a Pro-Tools LE system, like a digi 001 or 002, and save yourself the cash.
Then, you can say you have Pro-Tools and Nuendo.
This was my temptation when switched to Logic. I was tempted to buy an Mbox just to say to clients that i had PT too.
But at the end i knew that i would NEVER had used pt again, and i knew that my clients wanted the best, just the best, and i knew i would have done it in Logic.
So i didn't buy pro tools, i just produce in Logic, showing
the clients how more modern and rich DAW Logic is.
They were astonished by the features and by the sound.
Now they only want to work in Logic.

But returning to the thread, apart interfaces and headroom, they are the same
_________________________
\:\) Features Are Not An Opinion. \:\)
(John Hope, 2003)
http://johnhope.blogspot.com/

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#433437 - 10/28/03 10:18 PM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
EXAGON Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 07/03/02
Posts: 1358
Loc: Switzerland
safari bug
_________________________
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http://johnhope.blogspot.com/

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#433438 - 10/28/03 10:19 PM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
EXAGON Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 07/03/02
Posts: 1358
Loc: Switzerland
_________________________
\:\) Features Are Not An Opinion. \:\)
(John Hope, 2003)
http://johnhope.blogspot.com/

Addresse:
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#433439 - 10/28/03 10:20 PM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
EXAGON Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 07/03/02
Posts: 1358
Loc: Switzerland
_________________________
\:\) Features Are Not An Opinion. \:\)
(John Hope, 2003)
http://johnhope.blogspot.com/

Addresse:
UIPLPPICDSS
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#433440 - 10/28/03 11:06 PM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
trojanmusicmajor Offline
Member

Registered: 10/12/03
Posts: 10
Im with you, I ve found that nuendo is my choice, but I get people who are real close minded. Remember Im in Los angeles, and there alot of studios that I'm competing with. Also by having a protools rig, I can begin to rent the studio to protools users. Thinkin I might just go hd, hopefully it will pay for itself.

Anyone know how compatible nuendo and protools projects are as far as omf files??

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#433441 - 10/29/03 06:42 AM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
adebar Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 07/17/01
Posts: 709
Loc: Wiesbaden, GERMANY
I would never buy a audio tool Iīm not convinced of.

Imagine nobody were convinced of system X but everybody just buy it because they think it is THE standard.
In the end most had the system they donīt like.

If Nuendo is good for you I wouldnīt consider PT and either save the money or spent it for tools which makes my work better, or the workflow easier/faster.

BTW - I have PT LE and consider Nuendo or Logic for a better workflow.

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#433442 - 11/02/03 06:09 PM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
errol Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 319
Loc: Amsterdam,,NETHERLANDS
Quote:
Originally posted by Henchman:
Buy a Pro-Tools LE system, like a digi 001 or 002, and save yourself the cash.
Then, you can say you have Pro-Tools and Nuendo.
I couldn't say it better.
It must be a dutch thing \:D

But believe me protools is not the future.
nuendo is much easier in use then protools software.

And the politics of digidesign is very sneaky.

You invest a lot of money in cards, they have in between a new card so you have to upgrade before then and then.

After that very soon there will come a totally new card with new convertors.

And guess what, it will sound hearable better then the first HD.

This bullshit I've heard the last 10 years.

I bought last week a analog mixer because of the 2 dimension mixes I had to listen too.

Guess what again. My mixes are 3D and I can mix a song 3times faster then if I have to do it with a procontrol.

procontrol, my ass. Digidesign is trying to control us with very sneaky things.

When I started with protools 10 years ago everybody laught about that )yes also on the phone)

Right know the same people probably who laught about that are using protools.

Now I'm laughing because they are forgotten how mixes can be.

buy a second hand digishitthing and let them show your nuendo mixes because I'm 100% sure that they will love that more.
_________________________
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#433443 - 11/02/03 07:12 PM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
Injun Killer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/10/03
Posts: 263
Quote:
Originally posted by trojanmusicmajor:
[QB]Well to be honset I love nuendo, the only reason why I need to get protools is to get clients. When I tell people Im using nuendo they laugh and hang up the phone.
Oh, man. It hurts me to hear that. I've had to deal with the same crap. I'm a Nuendo user, and I honestly wouldn't use PT HD if it was free.

PT studios go out of their way to spread misinformation about Nuendo. They LIE to clients to get business. I refuse to give one cent to that company.

You should find out if there is a demand for analog in your area. The price of used 2" machines is at an all-time low right now. Positioning yourself as a unique studio, instead of being a clone of 1,000 other studios, might get you farther. Or it might not.

Remember that word of mouth is your biggest source of clients. The tricky part is getting clients in the first place.
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#433444 - 11/02/03 07:23 PM Re: Protools Mix Plus vs PT HD
adebar Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 07/17/01
Posts: 709
Loc: Wiesbaden, GERMANY
Quote:
Positioning yourself as a unique studio, instead of being a clone of 1,000 other studios, might get you farther. Or it might not.
Well said!

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