"Modes" vs. "hand-position"

[PhilMan99]

OK, I'm hoping the real "hard-core" theory types stop by here from time-to-time...

...when using modes (over chords, basically), it seems like most instructional materials imply a change of hand-position for each mode-change.

 

In my case, I like to keep one hand position (assuming the song doesn't change key), and use the different modes from one position. For example, in a piece in a major key, when playing over the root chord (ionian), I'd do 1-3-5(-7) - though not always in that order (arpeggio), and throwing in lead-in notes, etc.. When playing over a chord built on the 2nd degree (dorian), I'd do 2-4-6(-8) ... and so-on for all the chords. The key point here, is that I "visualize" the modes super-imposed on the major scale pattern, keeping my hand rooted in the same position when (switching modes). For purposes of illustration, I may visualize the ionian as blue (1-3-5), dorian as red (2-4-6), etc. While (for a major key) my hand position is positioned for a major scale, always staying rooted on the same fret, I emphasize the "1-3-5(-7)" of the *mode* for the current chord (I read simple chord-charts), not to be confused with "1-3-5(-7)" of the *scale*.

 

Any thoughts from the "pros" out there? I just do this for fun, but I plan on sticking with it long enough that I don't want to settle into bad practice habits.

[Jode]

My thoughts on modes and hand position: the modes are all the same scale(within a key signature); you just start at a different place. There's no law that says that you should have to change hand position to play them. OTOH, I play a major scale and a Mixolydian from the same position; I just plant my middle finger for the flatted seventh degree, one fret up from the major seventh. Play it however it's comfortable to you. It's your bass, it's your music, they're your hands. As long as the notes come out correct, it doesn't matter how you made them - unless you're holding the neck crooked and injuring yourself. Play the modes whatever way results in comfort and accuracy. Learn the notes, and then burn the book.

[BenLoy]

While I think it's good to be able to play everything in one position and one should definately practice doing so...you should also be proficient at shifting often and musically.

 

I'll play a passage using shifts that I could have easily played in one position, but I shift because:

 

1) I'm on my way to a different passage that requires different fingering.

 

2) I'm going to phrase something in a specific way using slurs, hammer-ons/pull-offs, or slides that would be impossible if I stayed in one position.

[PhilMan99]

"I'll play a passage using shifts that I could have easily played in one position, but I shift because..."

 

Do you have to look at the fretboard when you shift? The biggest reason I don't move my hand is because I'm reading chord-charts and can't take my eyes of the music frequently (2-3 chord-changes/measure).

[dcr]

What BenLoy said.

 

And I'll bet he'll second my answer to the above question: practice, practice, practice. You've got to be able to shift reliably & seamlessly without visually checking your position. (Think of it this way: if you can't do this, & try to play fretless or URB, you'll ALWAYS be looking!) It's not as hard as it might seem, it's just a matter of making a point of learning to shift.

 

I recommend getting a copy of the Simandl method book for URB & practicing it. It'll teach you positions & shifting. The positions are more restrictive than you have to be on electric, but chalk that up to extra technique, & the practice of shifting & landing in just the right spot is invaluable. That will build up "muscle memory" so that you can see where you need to go & your hands will just go there no matter what your eyes are doing.

[BenLoy]

Not being a good reader I can't speak from experience, but I've seen most excellent readers can shift with few problems. They stick to as few positions as possible and use simandl fingering a lot.

 

How many different ways can you finger a two-octave C-Major scale? One? Two? Three?

[ClarkW]

My teacher gave me some charts with fingering positions for all 7 modes, confined to 4 or 5 frets. He told me to practice soloing for 2 bars in one mode, then switch to another mode for 2 bars, etc. (I should really get around to doing that!)

 

I'll see if I can find them when I get home and try to transcribe them.

[Dan South]

You can keep your hand in the same position. If you play a C major scale (Ionian mode) starting on the A string:

 

A-BC

EF-G

-C-D

----

 

You can easily switch to a Mixolydian mode by playing the same notes starting on G:

 

----

EF-G

BC-D

-G-A

 

Locrian:

 

A-B-

EF-G

BC-D

----

 

Aeolean (sp??):

 

A---

EF-G

BC-D

---A

 

Lydian:

 

-----

-EF--

-BC-D

F-G-A

 

etc.

 

Just don't become a slave to the position. It's important to think about the NOTES as opposed to what finger corresponds to the fifth of a certain mode, for example. During a modal jam, you can get by playing patterns, but as soon as a musical change comes along that's beyond your pattern understanding, it's panic city. I speak from experience; I used hand positions as a crutch for many years. When I studied jazz, though, I had to become much more aware of the notes that I was playing just to play the simplest parts.

[...]

Originally posted by dcr:

What BenLoy said.

 

And I'll bet he'll second my answer to the above question: practice, practice, practice. You've got to be able to shift reliably & seamlessly without visually checking your position. (Think of it this way: if you can't do this, & try to play fretless or URB, you'll ALWAYS be looking!) It's not as hard as it might seem, it's just a matter of making a point of learning to shift.

I always practice scales/modes/etc using at least 2 octaves. This way, I'm not only practicing the notes, I'm also practicing my hand position shifts. There are obviously a number of different ways to play a 2 octave scale, the biggest thing is where you switch strings vs. where you shift hand positions.

 

For example, taking a 2 octave E major scale we could finger it like:

 

*note that the carrot ^ character indicates a hand shift

 

*f line is which finger to use to fret that note

 

G-----------------------------4-6-^-8-9--

D----------------------4-6-7--------------

A---------------4-6-7--------------------

E-0-2-4-^-5-7----------------------------

 

f-0-1-3-^-2-4--1-3-4--1-3-4--1-3-^-2-4

 

Go up and down the scale the same way at first, using the same fingers both up and down.

 

Other options:

 

G------------------------------6-8-9---

D--------------1-2-4-^-6-7-9----------

A--------0-2-4--------------------------

E-0-2-4--------------------------------

 

f-0-2-4--0-2-4-1-2-4-^-1-2-4--1-3-4-

 

and

 

G---------------------1-2-4-^-6-8-9---

D--------------1-2-4------------------

A--------0-2-4--------------------------

E-0-2-4--------------------------------

 

f-0-2-4--0-2-4-1-2-4--1-2-4-^-1-3-4-

 

After you get all three options down, start going up the scale with one shift pattern and down the scale with another shift pattern. Yay, scales and shifting positions all with one exercise.

 

EDIT: jeez, almost forgot the most important part. Practice this stuff with a metronome! I like to set it to 40 BPM and play all the way up and down twice at whole notes, then half notes, triplet half notes, etc... every time just sub-divide the 40 BPM pulse into the next number. Keep it clean and accurate until you can't subdivide the beat and execute it well. Then you can work on building your speed too.

[jeremy c]

Dan has shown you how to play the different modes related to C in one position.

 

This how I play the different modes starting on C in one position: (switch strings for each "return")

 

C ionian

24

124

134

C dorian

134

14 (only a two fret reach)

(shift back one fret with your first finger)124

C phrygian

124

134

13

C lydian

24

134

134

C mixolydian

24

124

124

C aeolian

134

134

13

C locrian

124

124

13

 

Now play this in all 12 keys.

 

Everyone has given a lot of good suggestions in this thread.

 

I do a lot of reading gigs.

Going through Simandl is very helpful.

Practicing chord arpeggios all over the neck is very helpful also. When you see a group of notes and recognize what chord is written, you can just put your hand in the chord position and play them.

 

Reading ahead is crucial, if you can see far enough ahead, you will be able to look down at your hands for position shifts.

 

You should be able to shift two frets without looking.

 

I sometimes play 5 fret shifts (like a I to IV chord change) with my students. We are supposed to play this while looking each other in the eye. First one to look down loses. Of course, I always win. It's rigged. I've practiced this in a pitch dark room.

 

Anyway that you practice chords, scales and modes is good for you . The more ways you practice them, the better it is for you.