Hello!! Question re: adding extra cabinets

[Hrothgar]

I'm new here and would appreciate it if someone could assist me with some upgrading questions.

I currently am playing through an Ampeg 450wtt head and a Trace-Elliot 4x10/hrn (320 wtt/ 8 ohms).I want to add a 1 or 2 15" to this and I like the Trace sound so I will stick with that.What I've been looking at is the 1524 (2x15; 400 wtt; 4 ohms)and the 1518 (1x15; 300 wtt; 8 ohms). What I was wondering was what ohmage would be best with my other gear and if to get best performance from it should I link through one cab to the other or directly output to both from the head. Thanks in advance for your help.

[BNC]

Hrothgar-

When did you relocate from Heorot to New England , all bad liturature jokes aside, I would get the 115 for a few reasons

 

1. 410 and 115 is tons of power, 410 and 215 is really overkill unless you play HUGE outdoor events (thousands of people) and are in a band that uses a ridiculous stage volume. If you are at a gig where 410 and 115 are not enough, they will have a PA.

 

2. ohms, the 115 at 8ohms will work well with the 8ohm 410, making your rig run at 4ohms. Having an 8ohm cab and one that is 4ohms will give you an odd number (odd as in not available on the head, most heads have 2,4 and 8 ohms or some combination of those like 2 or 4, and 4 or 8).

 

3. the 115 is cheaper, which never hurts

 

4. moving a 215 cab is a B#@$%! and it doesn't fit in the car well either (unless you have a big van).

 

Hope this all helps.

BNC

[Hrothgar]

Thanks for the input BNC.That's kind of what I figured. I have a Hartke 1x15 which I already blew the speaker in from before; would it suffice to just get a nice mesa boogie speaker and put it in that cab or would I be better off getting another cab altogether?

[BNC]

That's a trickier question. If your's was the aluminum cone, and you like how it sounds, get another one because no paper cone will sound the same. As for replacing it with a different manufacturer, if the ohms of the speaker are the same as the stock speaker, and the price is fair, it would be cheaper than getting a new cab. If you don't like your cab anyway, just spend the extra cash to get what you will be really happy with. You might want to start a new thread about speaker replacement since my knowledge on that is limited, especially compared to others on this board .

Cheers,

BNC

[Dix]

YOu're doing just fine so far BNC.

 

True... if the cab produced the sound you were looking for in your low-end (with regard to the low freq. roll-off) getting a replacement speaker for the cab (8-ohm) would be your cheapest way out.

 

Whether you replace it with another aluminum cone or paper version depends on personal taste... personally I like the way a paper cone breaks up (Altec 421-A's) when the tubes on my V4B's are pushed hard (less harsh than aluminum)

 

My biggest word of caution would be to make sure you get "cast frame" speaker if you play at higher volumes. Stamped frames can rattle when pushed hard (heard as a "buzzing" sound - sometimes mistaken for distortion by kids who don't know better & think they're cool)

[javlock]

hey, i've a question with this similar theme. how can i change the ohmage on my peavy tvx410 from 4ohm to 8ohm so that i can add a 115 wile staying within the 4ohm requirement of my hartke head(4ohm min)

[Ben]

Hrotghar, javlock, you are both better off getting new cabs.

 

Hrothgar, unless you replace the blown speaker with one exactly identical you are likely to get lousy sound, peaky at some frequency in the mid-bass, and without much low bass. Good cabs are built to match the specs of a particular driver.

 

javlock, if your Peavey 410 is like mine, it has four 4-ohm drivers in it, wired two pairs in series, then those two pairs in parallel. The same thing as two 8-ohm drivers in parallel. The only other way you can rewire it is to make it 16 ohms, putting the speakers all in series.

[Dix]

Originally posted by Ben:

Hrotghar, javlock, you are both better off getting new cabs.

 

Hrothgar, unless you replace the blown speaker with one exactly identical you are likely to get lousy sound, peaky at some frequency in the mid-bass, and without much low bass. Good cabs are built to match the specs of a particular driver.

Depends on your point of view... from the point of view of spectrum analysis... maybe... from the point of view of human ears... maybe not.

 

I've seen (& heard) speaker swaps & never heard one I'd call "lousy" yet in over 20 years. Audibly "different" in a few cases... & barely perceptible in others... and unless you are going to be using both cabs with different drivers in 'em at the same time... who gonna care as long as it sounds fine.

 

Heck… many amp manufacturers will offer different driver options for the exact same cab.

 

In fact the vented 1x15" cabs I'm using are modeled on a design that originally housed a JBL driver & I'm using Altec 421A's in 'em... they sound fine.

 

Too many times people get caught up in the "numbers game" and forget that their ears should be the final arbiter.

 

As for the 4x10" that's true... if it's 4-ohm now there's no way to rewire it for 8. Your wiring options would be (assuming they are 4-ohm drivers) 1-ohm parallel (NOT recommended) / 4-ohm series/parallel (likely what you have now) / or 16-ohm series. (If the drivers are 16-ohm multiply all of the above by 4)

 

The only solution to match this to an 8-ohm cab would be to get 4 8-ohm drivers & wire them in a series/parallel configuration... or buy a new 8-ohm 4x10" cab.

 

Now… before you get too discouraged Javlock… think about this…

 

Are you ever really USING all of your amps output power? There's a reason I'm asking…

 

Assuming we're discussing a solid-state amp (I don't recall Hartke offering tubes in anything other than pre-amp sections… but, hey… I could be wrong ) if you've never heard your amp clip and feel you don't use much of your amps rated output (and note… this IS a judgement call on your part) you COULD think about wiring a 4-ohm 15” driver in series with the 4x10's.

 

Yes, you WILL cut the output capacity of the amp in half… but many forget this is only a loss of about 3dB… or about 30% (you'll get 70% of the original volume). This is why a 100 watt Marshall never really sounds “twice as loud” as it's 50 watt little brother… it's not… all else being equal… it's only 40% louder (3dB)

 

dB difference = 10 log (P1 / P2)

[Hrothgar]

Thanks everyone for assisting me in my cab dilemma. Well gotta go and burn a village.

[Wally Malone]

Originally posted by Hrothgar:

Thanks for the input BNC.That's kind of what I figured. I have a Hartke 1x15 which I already blew the speaker in from before; would it suffice to just get a nice mesa boogie speaker and put it in that cab or would I be better off getting another cab altogether?

If my memory serves me right, the Hartke 15's are only rated at 180. I used to own one and blew it as well using a GK 800RB which is 300 watts. Never had any problems with the Hartke 410 cabs which I believe were rated at 240. Currently I own all Eden cabs.

 

Wally

[javlock]

hey dix, when u say wire in a 4ohm 15, how do you mean? oh and thanx for the advice, i never really noticed if i had clipped before. i usually crank it up at gigs but never noticed.