Organ Software - Controller Round Up

[ElmerJFudd]

Not to derail things, but I think those things are wicked-cool conceptually, but butt-ugly visually. I hate to admit that the looks of that thing kept me from seriously considering one, much as I was impressed by it. I know.... so, so vain. :-(

 

I don"t actually disagree with you here. I think the main source of ugliness is the side panels. I"ve debated taking them off and trying to make some more traditional panels. The thing is, it"s also kind of awkward to move and those ugly side panels actually make it a fair bit easier to pick up.

 

I created a thread a few days ago saying I was planning to switch to two 61 key controllers instead, and was asking for sone feedback on different controller keybeds. I only got one reply, questioning ditching the DMC. Which is a valid question, considering it"s kind of one of a kind. But it"s also 40 lbs, and I"m lazy.

 

A few issues with doing two controllers, not the least of which is getting the two key beds lined up where you want them on a stand. I"d probably look at a Studio-Logic Numa Organ 2 up top and underneath - most anything you like. From a stage piano (if you play a lot of piano) to a Numa Compact 2X or Nektar Panorama T Series for a second set of drawbars.

[miden]

Not to derail things, but I think those things are wicked-cool conceptually, but butt-ugly visually. I hate to admit that the looks of that thing kept me from seriously considering one, much as I was impressed by it. I know.... so, so vain. :-(

 

I don"t actually disagree with you here. I think the main source of ugliness is the side panels. I"ve debated taking them off and trying to make some more traditional panels. The thing is, it"s also kind of awkward to move and those ugly side panels actually make it a fair bit easier to pick up.

 

I created a thread a few days ago saying I was planning to switch to two 61 key controllers instead, and was asking for sone feedback on different controller keybeds. I only got one reply, questioning ditching the DMC. Which is a valid question, considering it"s kind of one of a kind. But it"s also 40 lbs, and I"m lazy.

 

A few issues with doing two controllers, not the least of which is getting the two key beds lined up where you want them on a stand. I"d probably look at a Studio-Logic Numa Organ 2 up top and underneath - most anything you like. From a stage piano (if you play a lot of piano) to a Numa Compact 2X or Nektar Panorama T Series for a second set of drawbars.

 

I was thinking more of creating your own cabinet to make it all sorta neat and permanent...

[ElmerJFudd]

Ya. The DMC-122 is priced $1499 in the US (without the Gemini). I"d mess with the side panels - however, I"d be a little intimidated about getting all the buttons and controllers lined up and wired again in an entirely new cabinet. I think from the players side, it"s pretty nice. It"s just sort of - industrial looking from audience perspective, ya?

[miden]

Ya. The DMC-122 is priced $1499 in the US (without the Gemini). I"d mess with the side panels - however, I"d be a little intimidated about getting all the buttons and controllers lined up and wired again in an entirely new cabinet. I think from the players side, it"s pretty nice. It"s just sort of - industrial looking from audience perspective, ya?

 

haha, yep gotta agree with you there - wonder how difficult it would be to get a B3 chopped thats snafu and just replace the casing on the DMC??

 

EDIT: haha, damn NOW you've got the "tinkerer" in me thinking!!! Although we are EXTREMELY fortunate down here if any of these ( a B3 or DMC) ever come on the market

[Mighty Ferguson]

I actually was able to pick up a used clonewheel Hammond shell from Valhalla Woodworking on Craigslist a couple of years ago. It fits the DMC pretty well, and has the right vibe for the funk/soul band I play in. So yes, it"s ugly, but nobody sees it at a gig.

[AlexJer]

The Crumar DMC-122 is quite an expensive device. Maybe for a beginner (and an elderly person with the age of 70+), two of the cheapest midi keyboards with 61 keys are enough for a start, then you can fold them into a single design yourself?

 

The appearance of the Crumar DMC-122 does not bother me at all, if only it was comfortable and had all the necessary features. Do you have a good offer to buy the Crumar DMC-122?

 

Maybe you have some advice on buying two cheap midi keyboards?

[Al Quinn]

Maybe you have some advice on buying two cheap midi keyboards?

 

I have an M-Audio Oxygen that"s light, inexpensive, and pretty good. I"ve had it for several years and see that there are new generations of this product which I know nothing about. I bought the 49-key version for portability, but if portability doesn"t matter then I think the 61-key version would be a better choice for most people.

 

An example of the version I have is at this link M-Audio Oxygen 61

[AlexJer]

Dear Musicians! You advised taking the Crumar DMC-122 midi keyboard as a good option for the Hammond B-3X. However, the NORD C2D is only about $ 1,000 more. Does it make sense to buy a Crumar DMC-122 under these circumstances?

 

I found a store where you can buy 2 cheap M-AUDIO midi keyboards with 61 keys https://www.sound-check.co.il/product/029-ks-61ii/# Approximately $ 266 (do you have a better option ?), but the question arises - how to play without Drawbars?

[ImproKeys]

Then better buy a Crumar Mojo Classic / Suitcase. Sounds great and can control B-3X.

[Al Quinn]

Dear Musicians! You advised taking the Crumar DMC-122 midi keyboard as a good option for the Hammond B-3X. However, the NORD C2D is only about $ 1,000 more. Does it make sense to buy a Crumar DMC-122 under these circumstances?

 

I found a store where you can buy 2 cheap M-AUDIO midi keyboards with 61 keys https://www.sound-check.co.il/product/029-ks-61ii/# Approximately $ 266 (do you have a better option ?), but the question arises - how to play without Drawbars?

 

Please see my previous post as the inexpensive midi controller I suggested has nine faders which can be used as drawbars.

[ElmerJFudd]

Dear Musicians! You advised taking the Crumar DMC-122 midi keyboard as a good option for the Hammond B-3X. However, the NORD C2D is only about $ 1,000 more. Does it make sense to buy a Crumar DMC-122 under these circumstances?

 

Yes, you would save yourself $1000 dollars which you already spent on a computer and buying B3-X.

 

However keep in mind that the C2D is already a fully functioning organ clone. You may be perfectly happy using it as is without a computer and B3-X.

[AlexJer]

Why Crumar MOJO is a better solution than NORD C2D?

[ElmerJFudd]

Well, for one thing - the dual Manual MOJO is still being made. The C2D is a Legacy product and you would need to find second hand. Or from a dealer who still has one in stock.

[erik_nie]

 

I've had the DMC for a few years. Very reliable, flexible and I liked the manuals. With the supplied bag it was pretty light.

I added som stickers to make it more hammondish and added a 3d printed label. I even had a small old lamp attached.

Some people in the DMC group hated the 'rebranding' but is worked for me.

 

I had a full mainstage based setup and used VB3 running a MBP2015-16GB.

 

Now Nord stage 3 compact + Wave 2. I miss the VB3, but my gigs are never B3 oriented, so I'll manage

[AlexJer]

Dear Experts! You advised me to buy Crumar MOJO. Because, firstly, it is a full-fledged musical instrument, and secondly, it is a midi keyboard at the same time. Right? I noticed that the Crumar DMC-122 is MORE EXPENSIVE than the Crumar MOJO, despite the fact that the DMC-122 is not a musical instrument, but only a midi keyboard. Please explain why this is happening?

[ElmerJFudd]

The DMC-122 is not a full instrument, it is a controller. And a more capable controller than the MOJO.

The DMC-122 can be converted into a full instrument by installing the Gemini card.

 

DMC-122 Controller

https://www.genuinesoundware.com/?a=showproduct&b=42

 

"On the back of the DMC-122 there's an expansion slot."

 

The expansion adds a lot more sounds than organ.

 

If your only purpose is to control IK Multimedia B3-X, then a MOJO would be fine. If you need additional controller features for non-organ sounds, then you can investigate the DMC-122.

[Al Quinn]

The Mojo has excellent organ action (i.e, I own a dual manual Mojo). I believe the DMC-122 is different: more of a hybrid action that's not as light. Folks here will correct me if I'm wrong about this.

[AnotherScott]

I noticed that the Crumar DMC-122 is MORE EXPENSIVE than the Crumar MOJO, despite the fact that the DMC-122 is not a musical instrument, but only a midi keyboard. Please explain why this is happening?

I'm seeing $2300 for the dual manual Mojo, and $1450 as the last price for the (now discontinued) DMC-122. But picking up from Elmer's post, DMC is a much more capable MIDI controller than the Mojo, including having has aftertouch and pitch/mod wheels.

[Doerfler]

The Mojo has excellent organ action (i.e, I own a dual manual Mojo). I believe the DMC-122 is different: more of a hybrid action that's not as light. Folks here will correct me if I'm wrong about this.

 

The actions are different.

[AlexJer]

Dear Al Quinn! Your link for M-Audio Oxygen 61 takes me to the store https://www.guitarcenter.com

After great difficulties with registration, the store replied that these things are not sent to Israel. Something is available in aliexpress, for example, https://aliexpress.ru/item/4000404587560.html?algo_expid=eafd494c-2471-403a-88a4-d3b27fc61ef1-10&algo_pvid=eafd494cite-2471-403a-88a4-d1b27fc35&m3ef3ef3-88a4-d1165b27fcid 10000001668761191 & spm = a2g0o.search0302.0.0.57e85b80b7ZZzO & ws_ab_test = searchweb0_0% 2Csearchweb201602_% 2Csearchweb201603_

Is the midi keyboard from aliexpress worthy?

[Al Quinn]

I can't comment on the midi keyboard from aliexpress because I haven't played it. The Guitar Center link was meant to show the model I have but you can likely buy it elsewhere. The new versions of this product might be good too but, since I haven't played them myself, I can't say anything useful about them.

 

It's often the case that buying online where there's a hassle free return policy is the best way to make the final determination as this allows you to play the keyboard yourself and send it back for a full refund (except for perhaps the cost of return shipping) if you don't like it.

[MotiDave]

What does high trigger point mean? Seriously, I"m that dumb. You"re helping humanity so feel good about yourself as you teach me

[ElmerJFudd]

[mate stubb]

What does high trigger point mean? Seriously, I"m that dumb. You"re helping humanity so feel good about yourself as you teach me

 

To sense velocity, most keyboards have a set of key contacts for each key that acts like a single pole double throw switch. In other words, it has a contact at the top of the key's position that is normally closed (connected), and a second contact towards the bottom of the key travel that is normally open (unconnected).

 

When you press the key, the top contact disconnects and a little later in the travel, the bottom contact connects. By measuring the time between the top contact opening and the bottom contact closing, you can calculate velocity.

 

This means the midi note on event cannot be generated until the key is almost down. Hammond organs however have a shallow key dip and begin triggering near the top - it's a much faster touch and allows for many slapping or bumping playing techniques to be used.

 

Since a Hammond organ emulator doesn't need to transmit velocity, the computer can just use the top contact disconnect to generate and send the Note on message. The velocity value which is baked into the note on does not matter and won't be accurate. It can just send a fixed value.

 

This is called high triggering, and it allows some of the same playing techniques and feel as on a real console.

[AlexJer]

Bought one M-Audio Oxygen 61 keyboard. Approximately $ 340. I still doubt about the second keyboard - either take the same one, or take the WORLDE PANDA61 USB MIDI controller which costs $ 218. What is your opinion?

 

Everyone praises the Crumar DMC-122 a lot, is this midi controller much better than my future homemade product?

 

When combining 2 keyboards, is it worth moving the lower to the left and upper to the right a little?

[ElmerJFudd]

The difficult part about using two keyboards is finding a stand where you can mount them right on top of each other and as close together as one would find on an actual organ. Most get it as close as they can so it"s comfortable to play. Software organs are flexible with controllers being assigned to organ functions. So you should have no trouble getting your faders working as draw bars, other buttons and switches working for Leslie Slow, Fast, Stop, CV, etc.

 

The benefit of using a dedicated organ controller or a clone organ is that the dual manuals are already laid out and someone else has already given thought to all the controls you"ll need and laid them out in a fashion that"s identical or similar to playing an actual organ.

[Mitch Towne]

Did you all ever catch onto the fact that the DMC-122 looks the way it does is because it"s modeled to replicate the look of a DeLorean DMC-12?

[ElmerJFudd]

 

 

Hmmm. From the players perspective it looks cool. I guess the big curvy side grips are perhaps supposed to be wing-like doors. But other than the doors the DeLorean is very 80s angular. Perhaps from the audience view the DMC-122 could use the DeLorean stripe along the sides and front.

[AlexJer]

...the store deceived me! After I paid for the M-Audio Oxygen Pro 61 MII, I received a message that this model was not there and was offered to replace it with the M-Audio Oxygen Pro 61 M5 for $ 100 more. 442 dollars 1 piece Ð5 (2 pieces Ð5 814 dollars) What would you advise to buy? Then there is the WORLDE PANDA61 (also semi-weighted) $ 440 pair. Almost twice as cheap as the M5

[AlexJer]

Please tell me, in the description of WORLDE PANDA61 keyboards it says "USB MIDI keyboard pad controller with 61 assignable velocity-sensitive keys, 1 master volume slider and 8 assignable sliders." Question - can the "master volume slider" be assigned like the other 8 sliders?