Organ Software - Controller Round Up

[ElmerJFudd]

There"s been a few posts in the past year or so on how many of you are using all the excellent iOS, Mac OS, and Windows software organ emulations, not to mention the HX3 hardware.

 

What have you found that makes for a great controller?

 

I"d imagine the boxes that would ideally be ticked areâ¦

 

Organ-like action

Waterfall keys - 61 or 76k

High trigger point sent to midi

Enough drawbars/faders that send CC"s

Some buttons that can be assigned to on/off functions

A wheel or switch that works well for Leslie controls

 

I know Scott and I have gone back and forth and found the StudioLogic Numa Organ 2 to be a pretty good controller (especially if looking for a clone that can double as a controller). But at $1299.99 to function just as a controller in your setup - maybe there are cheaper options? Does the Numa Compact 2x at $769.99 check these boxes solidly?

 

One might think with all the software developers that believe there are customers for B3-X, Blue, VB3, etc. - there"d be a hardware developer jumping on doing just the right controller. But maybe not. Maybe the community is too niche?

[Stokely]

Not a controller, but ironically I find the really light keys of my MODX7 pretty good for organ playing. However, I'm not doing "fancy organ stuff" that might require a waterfall keyboard or a high trigger point (not that I wouldn't mind learning).

 

I think it's easier to play organ on than my pc361, which has the longer throw more substantial action--a "better" action you'd normally say, but perhaps not for organ. So extrapolating, perhaps a really cheap controller would be pretty decent for organ key-wise, perhaps nicer than the the numa compact that I think also has that nicer synth action. Just a thought I've had.

 

I think the pickings might be slim if looking for waterfall with a controller. Providing the drawbars send ccs, perhaps a used older non-cotroller keyboard (I'd say cx3 but I had really bad double-triggering issues). Hammond xk3, Roland vk8 etc.

[miden]

Arturia keylab 61 MKII has one of the best synth keybeds I've played. (Not waterfall though) I'd rate it next to the A70 as far as feel and touch goes. So far I have found it excellent for organ playing smears and glisses are easy and smooth. Plus it has the nine sliders and knobs. albeit on the right hand side...but there are useful pads on the left. Plus as a bonus, a really good afterotuch.

 

It's at the upper end of controller pricing but well worth it imo.

[drawback]

I got my old M-Audio Axiom out of the vault when I started using B-3X and it was quite good, ie enough faders, deep keys though lipped, and enough control points for pretty much anything I needed to play with. But when I got a Kronos61, the Axiom went packing.

 

The Kronos is a great controller â keybed is outstanding for organs with smears being easier than most diving boards due to rounded corners. I got ahold of some Hammond style fader paddles from OBDave (see my avatar) and the rest of the switches & knobs are perfectly useful. I use the joystick for Leslie brake and Chorus on/off, and I have a dual pedal from Kurzweil and use the soft pedal for Leslie speed. I also split the keyboard so I can play B-3X as a full on organ, plus I have deadly LHB & drum combinations while the right hand totally controls B-3X, all drawbars & controls active. Couldn't be happier (well, put that in perspective LOL).

[Delaware Dave]

I like my M-Audio Code 61, it used to be recommended as the controller for HX3. Has the following features for organ and non-organ:

 

9 sliders

4 banks, so by switching banks you can reassign the 9 sliders for upper, lower, pedal + 1 additional bank for other things, all in the same preset

expression pedal input

sustain input

pads which can be used to control percussion, V/C, leslie on/off, slow/fast and run/stop

dials to control leakage, overdrive, volume, key click

nice s/w keybed; i like the feel of it alot

61 keys

5 pin midi in and midi out

USB MIDI

11 pounds

although discontinued, they are available new, open box and used all the time

generally around the $300 mark, so not that expensive

 

 

Cons:

doesn't have waterfall keys, but the lip is not overly large, so I can still gliss on the keys

doesn't support high trigger point

[Kurt W]

The second(digital) version of the Korg CX and BX are good controllers. Configurable midi controllers for drawbars and most of the panel, also trigger on the high point. The first edition also had an ultra light springed TP8O keybed (the edition with slightly lipped waterfall keys).

[AnotherScott]

If we're talking about creating an authentic playing experience, one of the things I really value is drawbars in the "right" place. On the real thing, you can always hit the black B key (for example), and your sound will instantly be in sync with the drawbar locations, and moving the drawbars from that point will work perfectly... no "jumping" or having to "catch" the current value. Most (but not all!) hardware clonewheels provide a way to call up an organ sound and similarly create a sound that is instantly in sync with the board's physical drawbar controllers. To me, that is something valuable that you don't get in most software-based systems. Possible exceptions:

 

The Dexibell J7 Combo, with a little attention paid to how you set it up, can do this, because of its motorized drawbars. (It's possible that the discontinued Behringer Motor61 might do this too, I have no experience there.) The Dexibell action is highly sprung in its TP/8O implementation, so like some others, you might want to try to locate some lighter springs for it.

 

Other than motorized drawbars, the other possibilities here that might work well are the ones with LED strips. I haven't tried controlling a software organ that way, but I've thought about it. There are also some boards that have LED strips and physical sliders so you'd still have the "hard" option as well for subsequent manipulation, and for a board that does not have that, you could also add something like the Crumar D9U or D9X.

[davinwv]

I currently use a Numa Organ 2 and Hamichord M-C3 to drive B3-X, but I really hope that GSi/Crumar hurry up with that waterfall controller that incorporates a D9X.

[ChazKeys]

Nord Electro 4D 61 - if you can find one at the right price in good nick.

 

Waterfall

High Trigger

Only 1 set of drawbars but Upper and Lower set transmit on separate CCs (unlike the 5 and 6!!)

No wall wart

 

Handy for other stuff too!

 

Edit - wish I had never sold mine!

[ElmerJFudd]

Nord Electro 4D 61 - if you can find one at the right price in good nick.

 

Waterfall

High Trigger

Only 1 set of drawbars but Upper and Lower set transmit on separate CCs (unlike the 5 and 6!!)

No wall wart

 

Handy for other stuff too!

 

Edit - wish I had never sold mine!

 

Does it send high trigger over midi?

 

Dexibel Combo J7 at $2499.99 and Nord Electro 4D at $2299.99 (a 4D or previous model second hand is an interesting idea) are pricey as controllers where you are off loading DSP to an iPad or Laptop. Although they may be just the right tool for the job. And, of course, then the question is - is BX3 or any of the other software sims, HX3 what have you significantly better than what's already on board.

 

I bet IK had to agree as part of their Hammond branding deal that they wouldn't release hardware. But someone could - and that would be of interest to a decent amount of people, maybe?

[Al Quinn]

Yes, the E4D sends high trigger over midi. I"ve used it as a controller with B3-X and the HX3 Expander Module. It works really well. I"m selling mine â it"s in the KC Classifieds â because I bought a Hammond SK Pro.

[miden]

Nord Electro 4D 61 - if you can find one at the right price in good nick.

 

Waterfall

High Trigger

Only 1 set of drawbars but Upper and Lower set transmit on separate CCs (unlike the 5 and 6!!)

No wall wart

 

Handy for other stuff too!

 

Edit - wish I had never sold mine!

 

Does it send high trigger over midi?

 

Dexibel Combo J7 at $2499.99 and Nord Electro 4D at $2299.99 (a 4D or previous model second hand is an interesting idea) are pricey as controllers where you are off loading DSP to an iPad or Laptop. Although they may be just the right tool for the job. And, of course, then the question is - is BX3 or any of the other software sims, HX3 what have you significantly better than what's already on board.

 

I bet IK had to agree as part of their Hammond branding deal that they wouldn't release hardware. But someone could - and that would be of interest to a decent amount of people, maybe?

 

The PC 4 does, but I was thinking it may have been out of the budget range

[AnotherScott]

Another perspective could be that the ideal controller should be a 2-manual board.

[ElmerJFudd]

We had a bloke here some years ago who has built his own. Is he still around? I"m wondering if he got the parts he needed from Doepfer?

[Doerfler]

Mate Stubb I believe you are referring to

[mate stubb]

We had a bloke here some years ago who has built his own. Is he still around? I"m wondering if he got the parts he needed from Doepfer?

 

Still around. No Doepfer parts in my controller although I considered them when designing. There are several choices to generate the midi messages when rolling your own controller, but I think that getting the action right is the most important thing.

 

[video:youtube]

[ElmerJFudd]

You"re using the HX3 as your sound engine, Mate?

 

Is the source of your action and circuit boards a trade secret? Seems like the time is ripe for some variants that are strictly controller.

[mate stubb]

You"re using the HX3 as your sound engine, Mate?

 

Is the source of your action and circuit boards a trade secret? Seems like the time is ripe for some variants that are strictly controller.

 

I used Midi Boutique controller boards. The proprieter Jordan Petkov unfortunately passed during the pandemic. He programmed the firmware to my specs which were designed to control VB3 1.4. I think HX3 would be the best overall portable solution these days if I were to build a sound source in, but right now it is strictly a midi controller.

 

Gory details in the original threads.

 

https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2190231/1

https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/2174351

https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2366465

[miden]

You"re using the HX3 as your sound engine, Mate?

 

Is the source of your action and circuit boards a trade secret? Seems like the time is ripe for some variants that are strictly controller.

 

I used Midi Boutique controller boards. The proprieter Jordan Petkov unfortunately passed during the pandemic. He programmed the firmware to my specs which were designed to control VB3 1.4. I think HX3 would be the best overall portable solution these days if I were to build a sound source in, but right now it is strictly a midi controller.

 

Gory details in the original threads.

 

https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2190231/1

https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/2174351

https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2366465

 

Outstanding piece of work

[AlexJer]

Dear Musicians! Please help a beginner to choose a midi keyboard for Hammond B-3X. I would like to have two manuals.

[ElmerJFudd]

What is your budget?

[AlexJer]

Budget? Do not know. I would like it not expensive and at the same time good, but they say that this does not happen. Give, if possible, options please ...

[ElmerJFudd]

For dual manual you may look for a used Hammond XK-3C. Or a Nord C2D.

 

But you could also consider two less expensive controllers for upper and lower manuals.

[AnotherScott]

I would like to have two manuals...I would like it not expensive and at the same time good, but they say that this does not happen. Give, if possible, options please ...

I'd say ANY dual manual would be good for B3X, even if some might subjectively be better than others (depending on your critaria... e.g. amount of key resistance, authenticty of layout, travel weight, type/number of drawbar sets, whatever). IOW, the nice thing about shopping for a dual manual is that, simply by virtue of it having been designed as a dual manual, it is already at least somewhat specifically designed to be an organ, so I'd say there are no bad choices here (especially since internal sounds don't matter). So if budget is a concern, I'd just say look for the least expensive dual manual you can find in your location. Maybe post what that is, and people can offer their opinion on its strengths/weaknesses, but it almost certainly will be a decent choice, whatever it is.

[Mighty Ferguson]

I have a GSI DMC-122, which as far as I know is the only actual real dual manual MIDI controller. I think they might be discontinued now, but they do seem to pop up used online from time to time. Might be worth keeping an eye out for one.

[mcgoo]

I have a GSI DMC-122, which as far as I know is the only actual real dual manual MIDI controller. I think they might be discontinued now, but they do seem to pop up used online from time to time. Might be worth keeping an eye out for one.

 

Not to derail things, but I think those things are wicked-cool conceptually, but butt-ugly visually. I hate to admit that the looks of that thing kept me from seriously considering one, much as I was impressed by it. I know.... so, so vain. :-(

[ElmerJFudd]

If we could hack such a controller together ourselves - it could look like whatever we"d like it to. Alas, it"s not a small job and requires a few skill sets. If one had a schematic of DMC - we"d know what we were getting into it attempting to transfer it to a new case, or even something like replacing the side panels.

[miden]

TBH Elmer, I don't think it would....get two half-way decent 61 note controllers use a passive midi merge box ...and your say, iPad mini and a couple of 5v power supplies and mount that all in a cabinet...I reckon the hardest bit would be the joinery work needed to make the cabinet. You could even make a back plate with all the internal connections mounted to it.

 

I've thought about it before but never really had the spare dosh to buy the two 'boards JUST for the project.

[stoken6]

I think if you want a proper organ controller, then it's waterfall keys and high trigger. And I don't think either of those exist in a (soundless) controller, outside of discontinued products from GSI and Doepfer.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Mighty Ferguson]

Not to derail things, but I think those things are wicked-cool conceptually, but butt-ugly visually. I hate to admit that the looks of that thing kept me from seriously considering one, much as I was impressed by it. I know.... so, so vain. :-(

 

I don"t actually disagree with you here. I think the main source of ugliness is the side panels. I"ve debated taking them off and trying to make some more traditional panels. The thing is, it"s also kind of awkward to move and those ugly side panels actually make it a fair bit easier to pick up.

 

I created a thread a few days ago saying I was planning to switch to two 61 key controllers instead, and was asking for sone feedback on different controller keybeds. I only got one reply, questioning ditching the DMC. Which is a valid question, considering it"s kind of one of a kind. But it"s also 40 lbs, and I"m lazy.