Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread

[Lady Gaia]

What timing! I"ve been away from my CP88 since mid-May, but we"ll be back together later today. Thank you, Yamaha.

[Nicky]

Touch Sensitivity update. Screenshots from the manual - Depth and Offset. Saved on a per patch basis - this should really help with feel of the CP73.

 

Can someone let me know if the new touch sensitivity works over midi? Or is it just for internal sounds? Thanks!

[ziozeus]

It's incredible. They lost me as a customer for this and then they are now adding it after 2 years. What a design flaw, and what a mea culpa going back on their way now. I guess they lost Mr. Dave Ferris on this (or they missed each other) based on what he wrote about why he did't find connection with the action/sound.

Well, better late than never, so very apreciated indeed.

I may consider to buy it now, maybe secon hand, to have an alternative to all those out of tune and uneven voiced nord pianos (I'm on a Grand now and growing sick with all that.. Uhmmm.. Sound character as they call it)

[1203]

Can we hope that they will give the same or similar update for the YC 61/73/88?

[AnotherScott]

These new touch settings this could conceivably make a world of difference. There was a lot I thought was really great about the CP73, and a handful of things that I thought could have been improved, but ultimately the number one reason I ended up returning it was that I couldn't connect with the action, the sound was not responding as I thought it should... as I put it, it felt "dead." Nothing else matters if a board isn't enjoyable to play. Hopefully this fixes that. (As much as I liked it, though, I won't be looking to re-buy it. I've purchased some other gear since then, and right now, all my stage piano needs are nicely covered.)

[Manolios]

Nice ! I sold my CP88 4 weeks ago, having bought the CP4 back, after I sold it for the CP88. Gigging for a while with the CP4 now, I KNOW why I missed it, there's no going back now. Or ⦠forward.

[SamuelBLupowitz]

Excited to see how the new touch sensitivity feels on the CP88, particularly on the electric piano section.

 

Unrelated, anyone know what stand Nahre Sol is using in that video...? My ten-year-old platform stand is a little worse for wear...

[ElmerJFudd]

Nice to see Yamaha releasing another firmware update for the CP73/88, I'll be installing ASAP and share some feedback.

[Doerfler]

 

Unrelated, anyone know what stand Nahre Sol is using in that video...?

 

Quick Lok WS-550

[Josh Paxton]

Can we hope that they will give the same or similar update for the YC 61/73/88?

 

This. For a split second I juxtaposed YC and CP in my mind, and had a brief moment of hope about the long-sought fast Leslie improvement...

[ElmerJFudd]

Okay, 1.5 firmware inside the CP88....

 

Right off the bat - very happy to now have that Steinway sample library - it's going to be great on my string gigs. Very different timbre than the CFX or Imperial, nice for classical stuff.

 

The touch sensitivity section in Settings is a big deal for those that want to dial in the action to deliver the dynamic range and have the sample libraries match up with the way they are accustomed to playing. What they have provided is not just 3 presets for soft, medium, hard.

 

There are two settings, Depth and Offset. Default is 64 for both - but their range is 0-127. Between these two settings you can adjust very specifically how much energy is needed to reach the highest volume and velocity layer of the sample set and narrow, widen or limit the dynamic range.

 

Yamaha explains it in the notes as part of the 1.5 download.

 

DEPTH

"This parameter can be used to select how the "velocities with which keys are played" will affect "the velocities actually output to the tone generator" for the current Voice section. As shown in the graph below, the larger the value set, the greater the degree to which output velocities vary in response to changes in the playing velocity (i.e., the steeper the slope of the graph). If a value of 0 is set, the output velocities will be totally unaffected by different playing velocities, resulting in an response similar to that of an organ, where playing strength has practically no effect on the sound produced.

 

OFFSET

"This parameter can be used to raise or lower all velocities output to the tone generator for the current Voice section. As shown in the graphs, 64 is subtracted from the value set here and the result is doubled to determine the actual amount by which the output velocities are adjusted. However, if the resultant output velocity is less than 1, a value of 1 is used; similarly, if the resultant output velocity is greater than 127, a value of 127 is used."

 

Also, you can have different settings for the 3 engines... Pianos, Electric Pianos, and Sub. So if you like your EP's to behave very differently from your AP's with regard to the action. It is now possible.

 

On the Live CFIII - I'm digging a Depth of 72 and offset of 62. When soloing it's easier to get a bite out of the samples but I can make the gentle stuff happen as needed.

 

Thumbs up from me.

 

In response to the question on the USB MIDI OUT - I believe at this time that the adjustment is internal and in relation to the CP88's sound engines. If you are using an AU/VST host like Logic/Mainstage you can do similar with the Logic Pro Velocity Processor MIDI plug-in. https://support.apple.com/guide/logicpro/velocity-processor-overview-lgce332342da/mac

Many software pianos, like Pianoteq for example include similar tools for getting one's controller to match up better with their software instrument.

 

Update: I can confirm from the environment in Logic - velocity messages coming in over USB from CP88 are not changed by touch sensitivity settings.

[dickiefunk]

This update looks very promising for the CP range! I was really tempted to get the CP88 but ended up pre-ordering the new Studiologic Numa X-Piano 88 as I wasn"t particularly enamoured with the piano sounds onboard my YC61. However, with the release of the new touch sensitivity controls, Hamburg Steinway, felt piano and more synth pad samples the CP88 looks a lot more appealing than it was. I"ve only had a quick listen to the Hamburg piano today but it sounds pretty promising and possibly more realistic than the X-Piano!?

 

I"m now tempted to order the CP88 aswell because the new 1.5 update has made the this way more appealing. Will be very interesting to hear and feel how these two pianos sound and feel!

[pinkfloydcramer]

 

Can anyone please name the 3rd and last pieces played?

 

I like the new pianos. So far I have not been fond of the CP73 uprights. Any darker sounding pianos are a welcome addition also.

 

(Edited) I forgot about the Bosendorfor because I never used it, and also because it was (wisely) not included on the YC88 I have been playing..

[montunoman]

Does the 73 and 88 have the same feel?

[Doerfler]

Does the 73 and 88 have the same feel?

 

Not at all, completely different actions

[dickiefunk]

I"ve both the CP88 and Roland RD88 arriving tomorrow to try out. Will be very interesting to see how they compare.

[Fleer]

I"ve both the CP88 and Roland RD88 arriving tomorrow to try out. Will be very interesting to see how they compare.

Very interested to read your thoughts.

[Sergievsky]

Help Please!! If anyone here is using a CP88 (or 73) with Digital Performer 11.01 (or the latest 11.02), are you having any problems with long, stuck midi notes when sequencing? It didn't happen with previous versions I had, 10.13 & 11.0, & it doesn't happen with my other keyboards. JUST the CP88, AND DP 11.01 (Logic X no problem!). MOTU doesn't have a CP88, and Yamaha says it's MOTU's issue. I might be the only one in my country with one (since I brought this back from the US), so if anyone here can test it out so I at least know if it's my unit or if I'm going insane. BTW, i installed the latest 1.5 firmware, problem still appeared.

It looks like this btw...

 

[dickiefunk]

I"ve both the CP88 and Roland RD88 arriving tomorrow to try out. Will be very interesting to see how they compare.

Very interested to read your thoughts.

 

Yes of course! I was hoping to have the Studiologic Numa X-Piano here as well but the date keeps getting pushed back. Also, the new Hamburg Steinway sample in the CP88"s 1.5 firmware sounds a lot more natural than the pianos in the Numa X-Piano. Will be very interesting to see how the Hamburg sample sounds and feels when the CP88 arrives!

[allan_evett]

Can we hope that they will give the same or similar update for the YC 61/73/88?

 

That Hamburg Piano sounds great, and I like the U1 Felt piano too. Hoping that at least one of those turns up in the next YC update - along with a new, much improved rotary sim for the FX section.

 

The new Depth and Offset parameters are a great addition; reminds me of the dynamics control on the Korg Grandstage, which is now also on the Nautilus. Those additions would seem to be a 'no brainer' for the YC.

[ElmerJFudd]

Help Please!! If anyone here is using a CP88 (or 73) with Digital Performer 11.01 (or the latest 11.02), are you having any problems with long, stuck midi notes when sequencing? It didn't happen with previous versions I had, 10.13 & 11.0, & it doesn't happen with my other keyboards. JUST the CP88, AND DP 11.01 (Logic X no problem!). MOTU doesn't have a CP88, and Yamaha says it's MOTU's issue. I might be the only one in my country with one (since I brought this back from the US), so if anyone here can test it out so I at least know if it's my unit or if I'm going insane. BTW, i installed the latest 1.5 firmware, problem still appeared.

It looks like this btw...

 

 

I don"t have this issue using USB MIDI/Audio on the CP88 going to MacBook Pro with Catalina in Logic Pro X.

 

Stuck notes, or notes with unusually long length are typically caused by the software recognizing a note on message, but not the note off. I doubt it is the CP88. But if you"d like confirmation - download Midi Monitor https://www.snoize.com/midimonitor/

 

Select the CP88"s midi out port in MIDI monitor and play. Scroll through the list of notes that have been input and check for any missing note off messages. Logic and I am sure DP, have monitors as well (but you have to go look for them in the GUI). Also, if you have another audio interface with midi io, try a 5pin midi cable. If this also has issues with stuck notes in DP but not in Logic Pro X - you can direct your inquiry to MOTU.

[dickiefunk]

So the RD88 arrived today but sadly the CP88 got delayed until Monday! I"ve been trying the RD88 out a little and to be honest I"m a little underwhelmed! I was expecting the sounds to have moved on a lot more than my old RD300GX! Also, the RD88 feels quite plasticky overall and the workflow doesn"t feel that intuitive. It is really early days at the moment though! Am very interested to see how the Yamaha CP88 compares when it arrives!

[Dockeys]

So the RD88 arrived today but sadly the CP88 got delayed until Monday! I"ve been trying the RD88 out a little and to be honest I"m a little underwhelmed! I was expecting the sounds to have moved on a lot more than my old RD300GX! Also, the RD88 feels quite plasticky overall and the workflow doesn"t feel that intuitive. It is really early days at the moment though! Am very interested to see how the Yamaha CP88 compares when it arrives!

So the RD88 arrived today but sadly the CP88 got delayed until Monday! I"ve been trying the RD88 out a little and to be honest I"m a little underwhelmed! I was expecting the sounds to have moved on a lot more than my old RD300GX! Also, the RD88 feels quite plasticky overall and the workflow doesn"t feel that intuitive. It is really early days at the moment though! Am very interested to see how the Yamaha CP88 compares when it arrives!

 

I"d reckon you"ll much prefer the CP88. It"s like night and day compared to the rd88 and to be honest it"s pointless comparing them as they are serve different markets. I got the RD88 to replace the Casio Pxs3000. The RD88 is weighted, has speakers, relatively light but miles ahead of the Casio for live use. I hated Casios inability to name user presets. The CP88 is a big step up in terms of action. I think the recently released pianos will make it even nicer to play but it"s bread and butter sounds are limited compared to the RD88.

 

To me the CP88 is a stage piano with a few extra useful sounds whereas the RD88 is a weighted board with loads of sounds but to me not necessarily a premier piano.

[dickiefunk]

Yes, I have a feeling I will! Yes the RD88 has a lot more sounds but the additional sounds on the YC61 are clearly better than those on the Roland! If I want any more, I can use the various apps on my iPad (some of which sound even better than those built into any stage piano..

 

I am also very interested in the Studiologic Numa X-Piano 88 (not GT). This looks like another good option but I have mixed opinions on some of the sounds I"ve heard in the demos. Generally the pianos sound very bright and a little plasticky and have the same names as those in the Compact 2X. I"m wondering if they are the same but with some additional tweakable modelling parameters such as hammers, pedal noise etc? Also, I"m a little dubious about reliability and the TP/110 keybed!? According to Studiologic, this is a 'massive' step up from TP/100 keybed? Finally, I"ve never owned a Studiologic product before and I don"t really know how good their tech support is etc?

 

Both the CP88 and Numa X-Piano have a fanstitic workflow that seems very intuitive!

[Sergievsky]

I don"t have this issue using USB MIDI/Audio on the CP88 going to MacBook Pro with Catalina in Logic Pro Xâ¦

 

â¦. Also, if you have another audio interface with midi io, try a 5pin midi cable. If this also has issues with stuck notes in DP but not in Logic Pro X - you can direct your inquiry to MOTU.

 

Thanks, ya I also had no issue with Logic. I really need someone with a CP88 to report it to MOTU though, because they said I was the ONLY one. Didn"t Yamaha sell a bunch of these? I would think they did, it is such an awesome keyboard! Even tho motu tech was great in helping troubleshoot, I don"t know if they"re convinced the issue is DP since I don"t get the stuck notes when I tried my other keys (Yamaha CP300-midi out, NI Komplete Kontrol49-usb, Micron-midi out). It really is just the combination of a CP88 with DP11.01.

Really hoping someone here has DP, or maybe a kind soul to try out the demo of DP (don"t actually know how their demo version works). Just sequence fast runs & big chords (all short length) for a minute or less.

Anyway, apologies for squeezing this into this thread. I know of no other place where I can reach out to many CP88 users.

[Doerfler]

for those like me who like things explained to them

 

[rogs]

Seems like the CP is the 'favourite child' -- again!

 

Since the NAMM 2019 release of the CP, there have been FOUR major firmware upgrades....

 

Since the NAMM 2020 release of the YC, there has been only ONE significant firmware upgrade...

 

Beginning to think maybe we YC owners might have upset someone at Yamaha?.....

[ElmerJFudd]

I would say that since the YC is newer - its OS already had some of the early CP firmware improvements at release. Yamaha historically is notorious for only updating firmware on models that are selling. I have no idea how the YC is selling in comparison to the CP. But I"d say it"s too early to fret, The firmware updates are necessary because they released an unfinished product, perhaps needing user feedback to finish the job. The YC has a LOT of user feedback! https://yamahasynth.ideascale.com/

 

Changes perhaps take longer, and are probably being done by the same team as the CP. This is a major change in user interface and functionality for Yamaha. Need for firmware updates is not surprising - the fact they are doing it is very welcome news.

[AnotherScott]

I would say that since the YC is newer - its OS already had some of the early CP firmware improvements at release.

... and I think this is the first update the CP has had since the YC came out, right? And except for the two pianos, all the other sounds it added are sounds that are already in the YC. Anyway, Blake from Yamaha has said as recently as August of this year that we'll be seeing an update to the YC as well. But if I had to guess, since they didn't come out simultaneously, it will probably be some months yet before we see that one.

 

As for the new update, just from the youtube demo, the new piano sounds aren't wowwing me, I prefer the piano sounds it already had. But more variety for people with "different ears" (or fingers, or uses) isn't a bad thing. I was a little disappointed that, other than sounds, there was only one improvement (the velocity curve settings). There were numerous operational/functional improvements I'd have liked to have seen (I posted a number of them on ideascale, where you'll find plenty of suggestions that have been moved to the "assessement" or "refine" sections implying they were/are at least under consideration for further development/inclusion), I'd hoped we'd have seen more than one (and maybe we still will see others in a future update). That said, if I had to pick a single improvement to make, at least on the 73, it would be the velocity response.

[ElmerJFudd]

I would say that since the YC is newer - its OS already had some of the early CP firmware improvements at release.

... and I think this is the first update the CP has had since the YC came out, right? And except for the two pianos, all the other sounds it added are sounds that are already in the YC. Anyway, Blake from Yamaha has said as recently as August of this year that we'll be seeing an update to the YC as well. But if I had to guess, since they didn't come out simultaneously, it will probably be some months yet before we see that one.

 

As for the new update, just from the youtube demo, the new piano sounds aren't wowwing me, I prefer the piano sounds it already had. But more variety for people with "different ears" (or fingers, or uses) isn't a bad thing. I was a little disappointed that, other than sounds, there was only one improvement (the velocity curve settings). There were numerous operational/functional improvements I'd have liked to have seen (I posted a number of them on ideascale, where you'll find plenty of suggestions that have been moved to the "assessement" or "refine" sections implying they were/are at least under consideration for further development/inclusion), I'd hoped we'd have seen more than one (and maybe we still will see others in a future update). That said, if I had to pick a single improvement to make, at least on the 73, it would be the velocity response.

 

Yamaha is a behemoth, and as such - in the past, has not been particularly nimble - and like Roland - stingy on firmware updates. The decision to react to the success Nord has had with tactile UI was slow to come and a major shift for them. Attempting an organ centric Swiss army knife board - mind blowing. Firmware updates on the CP line is promising - I'd say an indication that their attention will shift of YC next. Reacting more quickly to use feedback is promising. Keep up the activity on idea scale and maybe some things will happen! Good luck to us all!