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Is it me, or is the Montage not really that good as a slave?


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Having allsorts trying to control the montage from another controller... I can get notes to play fine, it's just trying to get the foot controls (and some knobs and sliders too) - sustain and expression to run properly from the controller board, and even when they are connected to the Montage instead it does not seem to work correctly.

 

Example case: Controller board connected via USB, mode set to multi, channel transmit set to 9 (I want to use 1-8 for the Montage keybed and the right hand split on the controller set to ch 9) - all good so far and I can play the part assigned to 9 from the external board (left hand split part), but unless it is the "focus" part the sustain and expression pedals do not work. If I make it the "focus" part the pedals work, but then they stop working on any other parts 1-8.

 

I've also tried setting mode to single and hybrid, same result. With the Montage using sometimes up to six parts for one sound I want to use parts 9-16 for the external board. For some songs I have four and five different sounds setup so this "new" Yamaha method of "forcing" each part to be fixed to a specific channel maybe does not suit being a slave and more a master?

 

What am I missing here? I guess I could add a second set of foot controls bu that is not only awkward I'd consider it excessive.

There is no luck - luck is simply the confluence of circumstance and co-incidence...

 

Time is the final arbiter for all things

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I haven't tried getting done what you're trying to do (controlling its controls externally), so I can't say.

 

For me this has worked. I've controlled the Montage via USB MIDI in a "studio situation" (both separate single-channel parts or the whole Performance on one channel) for recording purposes, and via standard MIDI in a "live" situation from another board - where I've e.g. played a Rhodes patch on Part 1 and parts 2-XX internally or sequenced. I've also set up a foot controller to only control the Super Knob.

 

Controls are a bit of an annoyance, though. Like, for each new Performance, you need to set up what each Part receives again and again - as default all new parts always receive everything. For instance, I only want the synth sound to receive modulation from the Modulation Wheel, but not the added bass part - you need to always go to Edit and change this.

 

My mode is probably "Hybrid" although I'm not sure.

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Let me take a guess:

 

You desire to control part 9 from your external controller?

 

You want to play parts 1-8 locally?

 

You external controller transmits on Channel 9?

 

On the Montage/MODX, even though you have Multi-Mode selected, your Montage will only "See" Channel 9 controller data when it is the "focus", as you said.

 

Do I assume correctly you have the keyboard switched turned on for parts 1-8?

 

Since I sold my MODX6 and 8, I can't sit at mine right no to see how I did exactly what you want.... I know it can work, as BRW says. I think I used Hybrid mode.

 

Bad Mister has some excellent videos on this very topic on the yamaha synth site

David

Gig Rig:Casio Privia PX-5S | Yamaha MODX+ 6 | MacBook Pro 14" M1| Mainstage

 

 

 

 

 

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yes, the pedals attached to the MODX do not affect the sound you are playing on 9-16 from the external board (while you are playing the usual parts 1-8 from the internal keys), that is simply how the board works. If you want volume or sustain pedal to affect the sound you're playing from your external board, you need to have a volume or sustain pedal plugged into your external board, just as you would on a "real" second board that was playing its own sounds. And yes, I can see where it might be convenient if instead this were a configurable option, as I think it may be on some other boards.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Also, I think it is sensible that the default operation would be to not apply local pedals to sounds that are being triggered via MIDI. In this case, with parts 1-8 under local control, one might commonly use parts 9-16 for externally triggered MIDI backing tracks. Imagine playing to backing tracks, and having your local use of the sustain pedal suddenly sustaining all your incoming sequenced sounds... probably not what you want!

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Thanks AS - thing is with the Montage I can turn off that control in a part. Pretty much all the synths I have used have been able to do what I am after. I think it is just the way the Montage is made. Not a criticism, just that it probable doesn't work the way I need it to. No dramas :)

 

There's a possible solution above that I will try.

There is no luck - luck is simply the confluence of circumstance and co-incidence...

 

Time is the final arbiter for all things

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Let me take a guess:

 

You desire to control part 9 from your external controller?

 

You want to play parts 1-8 locally?

 

You external controller transmits on Channel 9?

 

On the Montage/MODX, even though you have Multi-Mode selected, your Montage will only "See" Channel 9 controller data when it is the "focus", as you said.

 

Do I assume correctly you have the keyboard switched turned on for parts 1-8?

 

Since I sold my MODX6 and 8, I can't sit at mine right no to see how I did exactly what you want.... I know it can work, as BRW says. I think I used Hybrid mode.

 

Bad Mister has some excellent videos on this very topic on the yamaha synth site

 

Yep KB Switches for 1-8 are on . I did try asking but essentially got answers like (and I paraphrase) "why would you want to do that" or thats not really the way it works" etc - not a problem and as I replied to AS, it's the way the unit is made :) I will re-read the BRW tip though and see what happens, or if it is what I am after. IIRC I did try Hybrid mode and got the same result.

There is no luck - luck is simply the confluence of circumstance and co-incidence...

 

Time is the final arbiter for all things

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Just one added thing re the videos and other stuff at YamahSynth - ALL I can find is tutorials and blogs about using the Montage as either the ONLY keyboard being used, or as a master controller, nothing about being played from another 'board.

For example, in one - specifically about MIDI - it lists what it will talk about:

 

We will concern ourselves with the three major situations where you will be addressing things via MIDI:

1) you are using the MONTAGE as a MIDI Keyboard Controller

2) you are recording MIDI to an external DAW or Sequencer

3) you are using the MONTAGE as a MIDI Tone Generator

 

Not one thing about controlling/playing from an external controller.

 

Sorta pretty much confirms it simply cannot do the task I need. Shame, it's a pretty good synth really.

There is no luck - luck is simply the confluence of circumstance and co-incidence...

 

Time is the final arbiter for all things

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actaully number 3 above is where i started, and then just kept experimenting,

 

Yeah, the "why do you want to do that?" comments on the yamaha site do get tiring.

 

Cool,ok I won't give up just yet then - I'll go back and read that section, thanks David!

 

re the other, yep they surely do!

There is no luck - luck is simply the confluence of circumstance and co-incidence...

 

Time is the final arbiter for all things

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I can't think of a musical device I've ever used that didn't have a crappy surprise or three in the depths of the manual.

 

"You want to apply controller A to Source D? Sorry, we do everything BUT that."

"Sorry, but you need the ONE proprietary drive/dongle our instrument will read. Its $50 and you left it at home, regardless."

"Need to change the polarity of a footswitch signal? Sorry, N/A."

"Need an older driver? Oh, we have that, but its frozen in an archive you can only SEE on our site, not download."

 

RTFM is wise advice, until the section you need translates "modulation" as "tickling." There are usually workarounds if you struggle a little, but those two-headed clunkers? Sheesh. :rolleyes:

 "I want to be an intellectual, but I don't have the brainpower.
  The absent-mindedness, I've got that licked."
        ~ John Cleese

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I can't think of a musical device I've ever used that didn't have a crappy surprise or three in the depths of the manual.

 

"You want to apply controller A to Source D? Sorry, we do everything BUT that."

"Sorry, but you need the ONE proprietary drive/dongle our instrument will read. Its $50 and you left it at home, regardless."

"Need to change the polarity of a footswitch signal? Sorry, N/A."

"Need an older driver? Oh, we have that, but its frozen in an archive you can only SEE on our site, not download."

 

RTFM is wise advice, until the section you need translates "modulation" as "tickling." There are usually workarounds if you struggle a little, but those two-headed clunkers? Sheesh. :rolleyes:

 

:roll: Totally!!!

There is no luck - luck is simply the confluence of circumstance and co-incidence...

 

Time is the final arbiter for all things

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I am a longtime Yamaha fan. I started with an SY-22 back in the '90s, then moved on to a TG100, MU50, MU100, QS300, Motif 6, MOX6, and then MOXF8. In the '90s, I even did some work for Yamaha, creating and licensing MIDI files for them to use to demo their new XG MIDI instruments. I believe I actually met Bad Mister once, when I visited their SoCal headquarters for a meeting with their marketing people. All very nice folks.

 

Then, when the Montage came out, I sold most of my setup to fund the purchase of a brand new Montage 8, as it sounded just incredible, and I wanted a nice 88-key weighted instrument.

 

Anyhow, I don't play out anymore due to health issues... I am a home hobbyist these days who has played the piano and synths for 57 years. I compose and work a lot with MIDI tracks that I eventually record to audio.

 

In terms of overall MIDI implementation, the Montage 8 has frustrated me beyond all possible comprehension. I have posted questions to the Yamaha board, and as always, Bad Mister is beyond helpful. Nevertheless, while he provides valuable insight, I often feel as though I have to bend my brain into a pretzel in order to accomplish what I need to do. Maybe I'm just getting old and tired.

 

It has become painfully obvious that the Montage OS (which is a significant departure from the Motif systems) was designed with MIDI implementation (especially in 16-part mode) as an afterthought. Using the Montage as a 16-part MIDI tone generator - which you basically have to do with the Montage even when creating MIDI sequences in a DAW using the Montage's own keyboard) - is not intuitive, and (for me, at least) has proven to be a frustrating pain in the butt. And trying to set up the Montage knobs and sliders to control software instruments such as Alchemy and Diva in Logic or Digital Performer has also caused me to just walk away from my keys and go to bed.

 

When used as a standalone instrument, the Montage is simply wonderful. Initially, I may have had to consult the manual once or twice, but the OS is very intuitive and easy to use. And yes, the Montage sounds fantastic,

 

All that said, I've honestly been thinking about swapping the Montage for one of the 'new' Roland Fantoms. I have also owned numerous Roland instruments over the years and currently have an Integra-7. My sense is that the Fantom architecture continues to be 'rooted' in a 16-part mentality, as is the Integra-7. I just wish the Roland instruments had the pristine FM synth such is found in the Montage. And I need to confirm that the MIDI implementation and 16-part functionality in the Fantom still operates the way old fogies like me expect it to. Perhaps I'll reach out to the esteemed Mr. Diaz.

 

Anyhow, sorry for the rant, but if you're wrestling with using the Montage as a MIDI controller (to do anything other than just play notes), then I feel your pain.

Michael

Montage 8, Logic Pro X, Omnisphere, Diva, Zebra 2, etc.

 

 

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I just wish the Roland instruments had the pristine FM synth

Korg and Kurzweil have competitive boards that include FM engines.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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