Apple M1X and M2 Rumors

[KuruPrionz]

Your final paragraph says it all, it seems we are in agreement with regards to making software that is dedicated to the purpose of supporting it's actual function in an efficient manner.

 

Oh, absolutely. Basically, I think it comes down to that coders rarely seem to care (or have the ability) to figure out what their software looks like to a user who isn't an engineer.

 

Apple tend to grok this and work hard at making interface accessible and logical, and Ableton appears to have found a framework that allows a large variation of approaches, but this is not terribly common, I guessâ¦

 

Agreed, although I've yet to try Ableton. I've checked out a few DAWS, used Digital Performer back in the "hippie days" when their interface was incredibly cluttered and unintuitive. I liked the free 8 track version of ProTools but the entry point was too high for me at that time and I wanted more channels. DP almost made me give up, then I stumbled onto Mackie Tracktion, which is now Waveform and my DAW of choice. I've stuck with it, I find it easy to navigate and that's all you need to do to make me a user.

 

Choice of DAW or system is personal, choices are made for a variety of reasons and I respect that. Otherwise, we'd all be using the same things in the same ways but that's not how humans are wired.

[Anderton]

Apple is now a company with an obvious split personality.

 

Apple and Google have both caved to the Russian government by removing a voting guide app about candidates not from Putin's party. I can't help but wonder what Jobs would have done under the circumstances.

 

It's tricky. If they'd kept the app in place, I can see where Apple or Google might be concerned about employees having, uh, "unfortunate accidents." As I often say, sometimes there are no good solutions...only less bad ones.

[Anderton]

I've yet to try Ableton.

 

I've always said it's more a musical instrument disguised as software than a 24-track studio disguised as software. If you want to learn a new DAW, it's probably not worth your time. But if you want to learn a new instrument, they have a trial version available.

 

Choice of DAW or system is personal, choices are made for a variety of reasons and I respect that.

 

If there really was a "best" DAW, then we'd all be using that, and the other DAWs would have gone out of business. As someone who uses multiple DAWs regularly, I truly believe that if only one DAW existed, the music I make would still be the same.

[KuruPrionz]

I've yet to try Ableton.

 

I've always said it's more a musical instrument disguised as software than a 24-track studio disguised as software. If you want to learn a new DAW, it's probably not worth your time. But if you want to learn a new instrument, they have a trial version available.

 

Choice of DAW or system is personal, choices are made for a variety of reasons and I respect that.

 

If there really was a "best" DAW, then we'd all be using that, and the other DAWs would have gone out of business. As someone who uses multiple DAWs regularly, I truly believe that if only one DAW existed, the music I make would still be the same.

 

I am currently assessing my reality regarding music. As we've discussed on here a few times, tempo is not only fluid, it is an important means of expression. Recently I've tracked a couple of artists and the reality has hit home pretty hard. One of them has refused to use a click track anymore and her songs do live and breathe tempo changes, sometimes subtle and sometimes not so much. Programming can only take you so far and then you are truly out in the weeds and still not flowing from tempo to tempo. Those subtle transitions are tricky stuff but at this point I can't let go of them.

The other artist I tracked wanted a metronome click track so I provided that. They had a difficult time reining in their instinctive tendency to allow the tempo in their song to "breathe" and the results are pretty much yet another flatlined bit of home studio frustration for me.

 

I will probably download a trial of Ableton and maybe there is a way to organically shift tempo in there that is intuitive and simple instead of a tedious ordeal that leaves me unsatisfied.

It is like defining skiing down a hill by creating a staircase, the stairs might be small but it is a bumpy ride. Of course, I could be missing something obvious that allows the gradual acceleration/deceleration that we all play naturally without really thinking about it.

 

The visual aspect of playing with other band members can easily be overlooked in the context of having a "happy place" where one is able to do whatever they want whenever they want.

I am currently working on scratch tracks of my songs without any click, and will be going back to track a basic drum and bass part to see if I can do it and get it tight.

 

If not, I will bring a couple of friends in, hopefully soon and we will jam out the basic tracks in the real world. For decades, I've been the second guitarist so I keep an eye on the snare drum hand and lock to that visually.

When I played bass live I've found it easier to step back and watch the beater. It's a split second thing, like taking action photos with an SLR, you have to respond just before the moment so you nail it.

 

Crazy talk? Probably but I need to hear it that way I hear it. I've spent some time trying to get the "perfect tempo" for my parts and the transitions just don't sound right. That's a deep dive I would rather avoid.

Yes, Waveform does have a tempo editing capability. It's pretty good, a step forward.

 

What I would like is an automation track for tempo that can be "drawn" and transitions smoothly from one tempo to another. Does that exist? You of all people would probably know this, thanks!

[RABid]

...

The "value added features" like right clicking came years after Apple's mouse. I remember DOS computers that did not have a mouse at all. At that point in time, my mom was writing a novel on a "door stop mac" that had a mouse.

...

 

1990 I was sequencing songs on a DOS computer without a mouse and using that computer on stage. Got very good at using arrow keys and assigning repeating key strokes. 2 years later Windows 3.1 was released and I could finally use a mouse while sequencing. In the mid 90's I spent $5000 on a Mac for our printing department. It came with a simple single button mouse while the other computers in the department had 2 button mice. Oh, and it never came with a browser. Maybe 15 years ago I bought a hugely expensive Mac Pro tower for my bedroom studio. It came with a single button mouse that I quickly replaced.

[KuruPrionz]

...

The "value added features" like right clicking came years after Apple's mouse. I remember DOS computers that did not have a mouse at all. At that point in time, my mom was writing a novel on a "door stop mac" that had a mouse.

...

 

1990 I was sequencing songs on a DOS computer without a mouse and using that computer on stage. Got very good at using arrow keys and assigning repeating key strokes. 2 years later Windows 3.1 was released and I could finally use a mouse while sequencing. In the mid 90's I spent $5000 on a Mac for our printing department. It came with a simple single button mouse while the other computers in the department had 2 button mice. Oh, and it never came with a browser. Maybe 15 years ago I bought a hugely expensive Mac Pro tower for my bedroom studio. It came with a single button mouse that I quickly replaced.

 

You can use whatever you like, I've never said any different. If your expectations and Apple's don't align, you have options. They've never forced you to buy anything.

The Mac came out in 1984 so Bill Gates was only 8+ years behind in getting around to adding a mouse and a graphic interface. That's progress...

 

Nobody forces you to update your system and then have to update your software - you choose to do that.

 

Software vendors love selling new versions, that's how they pay their R&D to develop improved versions of their products. Are you seriously telling me that you can run the current versions of the Microsoft Suite on Windows 95? I am pretty skeptical about that idea. I know you can run the some but not all of the previous versions of the Microsoft Suite on Windows 10 and more older versions will fall to the wayside as Microsoft develops new versions. https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/a-look-at-running-older-versions-of-microsoft/6faf72ea-254a-4c8e-9982-2c36cdb1936c

 

My mom never updated her computer and used the same version of Word forever. When I finally donated that prehistoric Mac to Goodwill it still worked and Word still worked.

 

At work I am using a Windows 10 machine with Microsoft suite 2016 on it. Lovely stuff, and I do have to agree with Craig that corporate computers are pretty much doomed to suck. If nothing crashes during the 4 hours I work daily, it was a miracle.

 

Computers are the wrong thing to purchase if you want something that always works the same way. Hammers are good and so are screwdirivers. Those won't change any time soon. Pliers are here to stay...

[RABid]

.., I've never said any different. ...

 

I'm sorry. I thought you were saying different and arguing against my point. After re-reading your post I'm not sure what you were saying so I will just step back and remember that intended meaning is often lost on a forum. And by "intended meaning lost" I'm including my own meaning.

[KuruPrionz]

I don't want to fight either. I think your point is that you prefer Windows and you have your reasons and that's fine.

 

What set me off was your claim that Apple looks at what Microsoft does and does something different just to be contrary. That is simply not true and historically easy to provers incorrect.

 

I was in the world of corporate computing but in a very different way than you were. I was in printing and graphic design. When Photoshop came out, it was Mac only. There are other programs, I've used so many on so many different versions of Mac OS and Windows that my head would explode if I looked them all up. I know that I started on Photoshop in version 1.07 back around 1992 or so. The jobs I worked, a Mac and eventually a PC were required tools to get the work done. In the early 200's (up until about April 2005), it was still the same story. We had Macs and PCs right next to each other and were printing and designing on both of them.

 

I started on a Mac at home and always found it easier to figure out how to get things done. I bought my first Mac in 1996, got a G4 Powerbook in 2003, an iMac in about 2007, a 2008 Mac Pro in 2011 and a 2014 Mac Book Pro in 2017 or so. I get years out of each one, I control when the system is updated and I run behind the curve. So I like using Macs, I have my reasons and that's fine.

 

Neither of them are magical and yet both of them are, we can do so many amazing things with computers. I'm done with graphics/design/photography for the most part, just did it too long as a job to enjoy it much. My last printing job was in aerospace, I printed placards for aircraft interiors. They were using silkscreening techniques and gallons of lacquer thinner when I started, a year later I had them investing in an ultra-violet cured inkjet printer and a computer based graphics system (Windows). Then I did a temp job over the summer of 2014 fixing the worst submissions from school districts all over the country so they could be printed. Our team processed over 22,000 cover images in 3 months and I only did the really messed up ones because I had the experience of dealing with that stuff. It changes your perspective, I'm done with imaging.

 

Being able to record music is fantastic! If I had to do it on a Windows machine I could. If I can do it on a Mac I will. The music won't sound any different either way.

 

I just like to keep it real. Peace, I enjoy hanging out with you on here! Cheers, Kuru

[Anderton]

What set me off was your claim that Apple looks at what Microsoft does and does something different just to be contrary. That is simply not true and historically easy to provers incorrect.

 

They've both stolen extensively from each other, which is great. Makes it easier for me to move fluidly between the two platforms

[Anderton]

I am currently assessing my reality regarding music. As we've discussed on here a few times, tempo is not only fluid, it is an important means of expression. Recently I've tracked a couple of artists and the reality has hit home pretty hard. One of them has refused to use a click track anymore and her songs do live and breathe tempo changes, sometimes subtle and sometimes not so much. Programming can only take you so far and then you are truly out in the weeds and still not flowing from tempo to tempo. Those subtle transitions are tricky stuff but at this point I can't let go of them.

 

Here's a case where it really is too bad you don't use Windows. Cakewalk, which is Windows-only, is the only program I know of where you can drag audio to the timeline, it analyzes the audio, and generates a tempo track. In addition to using this musically, I used it for an article where I analyzed tempo changes in classic rock songs.. Check out the article to see the screenshots.

 

If you don't want to keep working in Cakewalk, you can export as a Standard MIDI File, which preserves the tempo map. Then open the Standard MIDI File in your DAW of choice, and voila, there's your tempo map...and now you can start recording audio tracks.

 

Might be worth getting a cheap Windows laptop just so you can generate tempo maps without having to figure out more arcane workarounds....

[KuruPrionz]

I am currently assessing my reality regarding music. As we've discussed on here a few times, tempo is not only fluid, it is an important means of expression. Recently I've tracked a couple of artists and the reality has hit home pretty hard. One of them has refused to use a click track anymore and her songs do live and breathe tempo changes, sometimes subtle and sometimes not so much. Programming can only take you so far and then you are truly out in the weeds and still not flowing from tempo to tempo. Those subtle transitions are tricky stuff but at this point I can't let go of them.

 

Here's a case where it really is too bad you don't use Windows. Cakewalk, which is Windows-only, is the only program I know of where you can drag audio to the timeline, it analyzes the audio, and generates a tempo track. In addition to using this musically, I used it for an article where I analyzed tempo changes in classic rock songs.. Check out the article to see the screenshots.

 

If you don't want to keep working in Cakewalk, you can export as a Standard MIDI File, which preserves the tempo map. Then open the Standard MIDI File in your DAW of choice, and voila, there's your tempo map...and now you can start recording audio tracks.

 

Might be worth getting a cheap Windows laptop just so you can generate tempo maps without having to figure out more arcane workarounds....

 

Thanks Craig, that is massively helpful!!!

 

That is an interesting feature. I've been pondering getting a newer Mac Mini, looking at Apple Refurbs. My 2014 Mac Book Pro has plenty of life left in it. Maybe get Boot Camp and install Windows. I should be able to run Cakewalk with that. I'll probably keep using Waveform most of the time, I'm comfortable with it already. No reason to re-invent the wheel and the sound won't be different.

 

I will request this feature on the Waveform 12 update, which is due in January. Every DAW should have it!!!!!

[Al Coda]

Cakewalk, which is Windows-only, is the only program I know of where you can drag audio to the timeline, it analyzes the audio, and generates a tempo track.

...

 

If you don't want to keep working in Cakewalk, you can export as a Standard MIDI File, which preserves the tempo map. Then open the Standard MIDI File in your DAW of choice, and voila, there's your tempo map...and now you can start recording audio tracks.

 

Does Cakewalk by Bandlab work offline,- or has the machine to be connected to the web always ?

 

I only read "install Bandlab assistant desktop app, signup or login to your Bandlab account, open bandlab assistant and ROCK"

 

 

 

A.C.

[RABid]

I don't want to fight either. I think your point is that you prefer Windows and you have your reasons and that's fine.

 

What set me off was your claim that Apple looks at what Microsoft does and does something different just to be contrary. That is simply not true and historically easy to provers incorrect.

 

...

 

Actually, in my house Mac's outnumber PC's 2 to 1, plus I have a load of iPads and use iPhone. I really like Mac, and that is why I get so mad when they break things and don't seem to care. And I still think they do some things just to be different than Windows. I'm afraid I'm too old to change my opinion on that.

[RABid]

... Cakewalk, which is Windows-only, is the only program I know of where you can drag audio to the timeline, it analyzes the audio, and generates a tempo track. In addition to using this musically, I used it for an article where I analyzed tempo changes in classic rock songs.. Check out the article to see the screenshots.

 

....

 

I've never tried that feature. May feed it a copy of Honky Tonk Woman and see what it spits out.

[KuruPrionz]

... Cakewalk, which is Windows-only, is the only program I know of where you can drag audio to the timeline, it analyzes the audio, and generates a tempo track. In addition to using this musically, I used it for an article where I analyzed tempo changes in classic rock songs.. Check out the article to see the screenshots.

 

....

 

I've never tried that feature. May feed it a copy of Honky Tonk Woman and see what it spits out.

 

I'd love to know how that turns out! If you have Midnight Rambler from the Get Your Ya Ya's Out, that is a masterpiece of tempo change.

[Anderton]

I will request this feature on the Waveform 12 update, which is due in January. Every DAW should have it!!!!!

 

I think (not 100% sure) that any DAW would also need to support ARA (Audio Random Access protocol), as well as have Melodyne. I did notice that changing Melodyne's detection algorithm would influence the accuracy, but couldn't draw a 1:1 correlation between a particular algorithm and type of music. There does need to be a percussive element in the music. Rock is good for this because it has drums Also solo guitar and piano work, for the obvious reasons.

 

I did do a crazy-ass torture test of slowing way down and speeding up to see if I could "break" the tempo detection. It actually followed along. It was so impressive I made it a part of my mixing seminars.

 

BTW Cakewalk is free, and I know people who use it with Boot Camp...so you might be in good shape. On a semi-related note, does anyone know if Boot Camp works with Apple silicon?

[Anderton]

Does Cakewalk by Bandlab work offline,- or has the machine to be connected to the web always ?

 

It works offline. After downloading, you do need to go online to activate it, and also, it needs to re-activate every six months. However, if you download the Cakewalk updates (you should - Cakewalk's stability has improved by a zillion per cent since BandLab bought it, and they keep adding useful features), it automatically re-activates because it assumes that if you're updating it, you're still using the program.

 

FWIW I've never been spammed by signing up for BandLab, so that's a plus. And of course, Cakewalk is free.

[KuruPrionz]

All good news!

 

I'll look at installing Boot Camp and Cakewalk on my bootable external drive, it still has plenty of space. The 512 gb drive on my MacBook Pro is pretty full, I like to leave a bit of space.

 

I'm on Catalina and an older machine so it should all work well.

 

This changes what I can do profoundly, thanks for sharing!!!!

[Anderton]

Circle back and let us know how it works for you. It's not perfect (long a capellas sections don't make it happy), but what's shocking is how close to perfect it is.

[KuruPrionz]

Circle back and let us know how it works for you. It's not perfect (long a capellas sections don't make it happy), but what's shocking is how close to perfect it is.

 

I would use a steel string acoustic guitar played with a pick all the way through, even if there is an a cappella section (which I haven't written yet!).

 

That's been my scratch track go-to always. Lately I've been going direct so there is no bleed into that track.

 

And I will check back in once I've had this up and running.

 

Any recommendations for a drum sound replacement program?

[Anderton]

Any recommendations for a drum sound replacement program?

 

Sonar used to have one, but I don't think it's included in Cakewalk by BandLab. It still shows up for me, because it was installed for Sonar.

 

I generally shy away from drum replacers, and instead (don't laugh) bring individual samples on to the timeline, and vary the levels to create dynamics. It takes a long time but it sounds good.

[KuruPrionz]

Any recommendations for a drum sound replacement program?

 

Sonar used to have one, but I don't think it's included in Cakewalk by BandLab. It still shows up for me, because it was installed for Sonar.

 

I generally shy away from drum replacers, and instead (don't laugh) bring individual samples on to the timeline, and vary the levels to create dynamics. It takes a long time but it sounds good.

 

OK, I might want to do that anyway or at least a variation of that. I've made "kick drum" out of a water container and there are lots of different sounds you can get with it since you are striking it by hand or with a felt mallet and can use the other hand to affect the high frequencies generated by the plastic.

I'd probably play a kick part first, chop it up, and align it with the timeline. That way I can keep the tonal variations and avoid that "digital drummer consistency", it's one aspect of the tempo flatlining, the drums are pre-flatlined as well.

 

Then snare and then high hats, etc. You are right that it might take some time, I've done similar things on a smaller scale in the past.

At this point it's more about accurately capturing the the tempo than about how long it takes to do it.

 

I'm backing up the external boot drive right now, that takes a while and you have to copy Applications, Library, System and Users individually since each one will require a log in. Dropping more than one of those folders defaults to not doing anything.

 

Then I can install Boot Camp and Boot Camp will install Windows. So this part is tedious as well but nothing will happen if I don't do it.

[David Emm]

I began using a computer in earnest with a clunky PC clone and Windows 98. By the time I replaced it with a PowerMac, I was an inch away from taking a croquet mallet to the pustulant thing. Win98 is the imposed OS of the damned in Hell.

 

Macs have their issues, the main one being the products of a corporation so big, they've reached their inevitable level of heedlessness. Taking headphone jacks off their iPhones was an act of pure spite. Give people enough money & power and you'll see just what they're made of, usually elderly cheese and that caustic material that protects every growing cashew.

 

My solution is to STFU and appreciate the powerful trumpet section that's now one of Logic's instrument options. I no longer possess the required fortitude for a Fantom, especially the 400 jacks n' ports on the back. I still say taking up a mega-synth is a marriage, where GIGO firmly applies.

 

I prefer to stay with what I know & luv. Logic is my fantasy tape deck and Macs kiss my butt enough to keep me from snarling up the tape. When I installed Memorymode and it played immediately, it became sexual. For more information, go to mind your own damn business dot com.

[KuruPrionz]

I ended up ordering a USB 2.0 16gb flash drive. Our local Kroger's has a pretty OK selection of electronics, it appears USB is dead and SD cards now reign supreme.

Rather than spend time hunting one down locally I'll just wait a few days. I've got the Windows download sitting. Soon is soon enough.

[Al Coda]

Does Cakewalk by Bandlab work offline,- or has the machine to be connected to the web always ?

 

It works offline. After downloading, you do need to go online to activate it, and also, it needs to re-activate every six months. However, if you download the Cakewalk updates (you should - Cakewalk's stability has improved by a zillion per cent since BandLab bought it, and they keep adding useful features), it automatically re-activates because it assumes that if you're updating it, you're still using the program.

 

FWIW I've never been spammed by signing up for BandLab, so that's a plus. And of course, Cakewalk is free.

 

Thank you !

 

I cannot find the system requirements for PC,- any link ?

 

I have a Win10 Pro laptop and a Win7 Pro SP1 rackmount DAW machine,- both 64Bit, Intel i7 quad, SSDs,- and I´m using iGPU on rackmount DAW while I cann choose from Intel graphics (iGPU) and Nvidia graphics card on workstation laptop.

Does Cakewalk run on both, Win10 and Win7 and does it accept iGPU usage ?

 

:

 

 

A.C.

[Anderton]

Here's the product page that gives the minimum system requirements. Windows 7 is okay if it's 64-bit, they don't say anything about graphics other than 1280 x 800 minimum screen resolution. But hey, it's free...easy enough to find out if it works with your system

[Al Coda]

Here's the product page that gives the minimum system requirements. Windows 7 is okay if it's 64-bit, they don't say anything about graphics other than 1280 x 800 minimum screen resolution.

 

 

Thank you,- that´s perfect !

 

 

 

 

A.C.

[Sergievsky]

Here's a case where it really is too bad you don't use Windows. Cakewalk, which is Windows-only, is the only program I know of where you can drag audio to the timeline, it analyzes the audio, and generates a tempo track....

Whoa...what?! This is incredibly useful for what I've been doing lately! Too bad I'm all Mac...but I would absolutely get a PC just for this! Thanks for the tip! Funny that I just decided to skim through some forums now & read this (trying to relieve some deadline stress). I'm old now so learning a new daw might take awhile, but this feature alone could be worth it. Hard to believe that it's the only DAW that can do this?

P.S. Does it have Wait-for-note like DP?

[KuruPrionz]

Here's a case where it really is too bad you don't use Windows. Cakewalk, which is Windows-only, is the only program I know of where you can drag audio to the timeline, it analyzes the audio, and generates a tempo track....

Whoa...what?! This is incredibly useful for what I've been doing lately! Too bad I'm all Mac...but I would absolutely get a PC just for this! Thanks for the tip! Funny that I just decided to skim through some forums now & read this (trying to relieve some deadline stress). I'm old now so learning a new daw might take awhile, but this feature alone could be worth it. Hard to believe that it's the only DAW that can do this?

P.S. Does it have Wait-for-note like DP?

 

Mac OS has an app called Boot Camp Assistant that allows you to make a partition and install Windows 10 (and then Cakewalk). The partition needs to be about 40 gb, unfortunately I don't have a spare 40 gigs on my computer's boot drive. I've done a fair share of backing things up elsewhere and deleting but still not quite enough. Oddly, I have an external boot drive with plenty of space but Boot Camp will not address it so I haven't done the installation yet.

 

You can run Windows and Cakewalk on your Mac if you have the space. No reason I can see that would prevent you exporting your Cakewalk tempo track to an external drive and then importing that into your DAW of choice. Probably a bit of learning curve but I doubt it's insurmountable.

[ChrisDespo]

Also there"s Parallels for Mac which, in my use of it, works much easier in that you can install Windows on it and run it along side MacOS and copy/paste between OS"s, etc without having to boot up in just one OS. Think of it as running Windows as an application in MacOS in its own window/screen. Works very well and no speed issues with anything I"ve thrown at it, although I haven"t used it for music stuff, mostly app development. As KuruPrionz said you do need to have the space available on your drive to install Windows and Parallels but the size of the partition can be dynamically allocated so you don"t lose unused drive space allocated for Windows.