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Hi everybody!

I am looking for advice concerning the purchase of a new audio interface.

At present I own a 2014 Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 (I suppose it is a 1st generation 2i4), which is connected to a mid 2012 MacBook pro. I use it as an input/output for my two keyboards: a digital piano (Yamaha P45) connected via USB to the MacBook and a Arturia keylab 61 MKII connected via MIDI to the Focusrite. As a software I am using MainStage 3.5, since I mainly perform live gigs, but I sometimes record music in my home studio with Logic Pro X, so I use also the two mic/line inputs for voice and guitar.

 

The Scarlett 2i4 has not done a bad job so far, but my main concern about it is the apparently insufficient output signal. Unfortunately I am not (yet) a super expert in audio theoretical concepts, so I will try to explain the problem with simple words: it seems like the interface is not loud enough. When on stage, I usually connect the audio interface to the mixer through a TS jack cable, set the Monitor knob to "max" and the direct monitor knob all to "Playback" side (I still have this last point not so clear...).

Although the Monitor knob is set to max (the master level in MainStage is at 0 dB), it seems that the signal arriving at the mixer is weak. Is the so-called "Maximum Output Level" responsible for this?

 

So, first of all, I would like to know if I am making some mistake connecting or setting the interface that results in a weak output signal.

Secondly, since in any case I would like to upgrade my audio interface, I would ask for an advice for the purchase. The main features should be: USB connection (is USB3 significantly better than USB2?), 2 line/mic inputs and 2 outputs, MIDI 5-pin I/O sockets. Furthermore, the new interface should be generally better and possibly louder than the Scarlett 2i4 I currently own.

 

Any advice will be appreciated

thank you and

best regards

Niccolò

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Do you still need just 2 channels or do you want to add more?

 

For a while, I owned a MOTU Audio Express, which is both USB 2 and Firewire. It has MIDI in/out jacks on the back.

The output was really hot, I had to turn the volume controls on my Mackie HR824 monitors way down to keep from blowing my brains out.

 

A good, solid unit but I wanted more channels and Thunderbolt 2 for my 2014 MacBook Pro so I sold it and bought a Presonus Quantum Thunderbolt interface, which is nice and has plenty of output but may be more than you need.

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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At present I own a 2014 Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 (I suppose it is a 1st generation 2i4), which is connected to a mid 2012 MacBook pro. I use it as an input/output for my two keyboards: a digital piano (Yamaha P45) connected via USB to the MacBook and a Arturia keylab 61 MKII connected via MIDI to the Focusrite. As a software I am using MainStage 3.5, since I mainly perform live gigs, but I sometimes record music in my home studio with Logic Pro X, so I use also the two mic/line inputs for voice and guitar.

 

The Scarlett 2i4 has not done a bad job so far, but my main concern about it is the apparently insufficient output signal. Unfortunately I am not (yet) a super expert in audio theoretical concepts, so I will try to explain the problem with simple words: it seems like the interface is not loud enough. When on stage, I usually connect the audio interface to the mixer through a TS jack cable, set the Monitor knob to "max" and the direct monitor knob all to "Playback" side (I still have this last point not so clear...).

Although the Monitor knob is set to max (the master level in MainStage is at 0 dB), it seems that the signal arriving at the mixer is weak. Is the so-called "Maximum Output Level" responsible for this?

 

Yes, that's exactly the problem. The science behind is is called "gain structure" and, in short, it means that the output level of a source is reasonably matched to its destination. You have the knobs set correctly, but the input that you're using for the Focusrite output doesn't have enough gain to get the output to the speaker up to the level that you want it. There's an article on Gain Structure on my web site that you might want to peruse.

 

Looking at the specs for the Scarlett 2i4, I see that the maximum output using the unbalanced outputs (TS cable) is pretty wimpy. If you used Outputs 1 and 2 with a TRS cable, if your mixer inputs are balanced, you'll get a few more dB out of it.

 

So, first of all, I would like to know if I am making some mistake connecting or setting the interface that results in a weak output signal.
,

No, you're connecting it correctly, though as I said, if your mixer's line inputs are TRS, try swapping out the cable.

 

Secondly, since in any case I would like to upgrade my audio interface, I would ask for an advice for the purchase. The main features should be: USB connection (is USB3 significantly better than USB2?), 2 line/mic inputs and 2 outputs, MIDI 5-pin I/O sockets. Furthermore, the new interface should be generally better and possibly louder than the Scarlett 2i4 I currently own.

 

The Scarlett is a good interface, but it's one where they cut costs and not providing "pro" output level is one way to do it. I had a similar Behringer interface and was annoyed with its low output level (for the same reason as the Focusrite). When I wanted a 4-input interface, I chose a TASCAM US4x4HR, and one reason for my choice was the proper output level. You might want to take a look at it.

 

As far as the difference between USB3 and USB2, at the number of channels you're working with, USB2 is fine, though I think that you'll find that most interfaces on today's market have USB3 or USBC. If you were doing 48 chanels at 96 kHz you'd want USB3, but at standard sample rates (44.1, 48 kHz) USB2 is fine. The best part about knowing this is that if your computer doesn't have USB3 ports, you can use USB 2 comfortably. The connector is the same, and most that have USB-C include a cable to go between that and USB 2/3.

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Do you still need just 2 channels or do you want to add more?

 

For a while, I owned a MOTU Audio Express, which is both USB 2 and Firewire. It has MIDI in/out jacks on the back.

The output was really hot, I had to turn the volume controls on my Mackie HR824 monitors way down to keep from blowing my brains out.

 

A good, solid unit but I wanted more channels and Thunderbolt 2 for my 2014 MacBook Pro so I sold it and bought a Presonus Quantum Thunderbolt interface, which is nice and has plenty of output but may be more than you need.

 

Hi KuruPrionz,

thanks for the reply,

Actually, 2 channels will be enough for what I am doing. As I said, my main use is for live gigs as an output for MainStage. In my home studio (more "home" than "studio"!), I don't plan to connect more than one mic and one guitar simultaneously.

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At present I own a 2014 Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 (I suppose it is a 1st generation 2i4), which is connected to a mid 2012 MacBook pro. I use it as an input/output for my two keyboards: a digital piano (Yamaha P45) connected via USB to the MacBook and a Arturia keylab 61 MKII connected via MIDI to the Focusrite. As a software I am using MainStage 3.5, since I mainly perform live gigs, but I sometimes record music in my home studio with Logic Pro X, so I use also the two mic/line inputs for voice and guitar.

 

The Scarlett 2i4 has not done a bad job so far, but my main concern about it is the apparently insufficient output signal. Unfortunately I am not (yet) a super expert in audio theoretical concepts, so I will try to explain the problem with simple words: it seems like the interface is not loud enough. When on stage, I usually connect the audio interface to the mixer through a TS jack cable, set the Monitor knob to "max" and the direct monitor knob all to "Playback" side (I still have this last point not so clear...).

Although the Monitor knob is set to max (the master level in MainStage is at 0 dB), it seems that the signal arriving at the mixer is weak. Is the so-called "Maximum Output Level" responsible for this?

 

Yes, that's exactly the problem. The science behind is is called "gain structure" and, in short, it means that the output level of a source is reasonably matched to its destination. You have the knobs set correctly, but the input that you're using for the Focusrite output doesn't have enough gain to get the output to the speaker up to the level that you want it. There's an article on Gain Structure on my web site that you might want to peruse.

 

Looking at the specs for the Scarlett 2i4, I see that the maximum output using the unbalanced outputs (TS cable) is pretty wimpy. If you used Outputs 1 and 2 with a TRS cable, if your mixer inputs are balanced, you'll get a few more dB out of it.

 

So, first of all, I would like to know if I am making some mistake connecting or setting the interface that results in a weak output signal.
,

No, you're connecting it correctly, though as I said, if your mixer's line inputs are TRS, try swapping out the cable.

 

Secondly, since in any case I would like to upgrade my audio interface, I would ask for an advice for the purchase. The main features should be: USB connection (is USB3 significantly better than USB2?), 2 line/mic inputs and 2 outputs, MIDI 5-pin I/O sockets. Furthermore, the new interface should be generally better and possibly louder than the Scarlett 2i4 I currently own.

 

The Scarlett is a good interface, but it's one where they cut costs and not providing "pro" output level is one way to do it. I had a similar Behringer interface and was annoyed with its low output level (for the same reason as the Focusrite). When I wanted a 4-input interface, I chose a TASCAM US4x4HR, and one reason for my choice was the proper output level. You might want to take a look at it.

 

As far as the difference between USB3 and USB2, at the number of channels you're working with, USB2 is fine, though I think that you'll find that most interfaces on today's market have USB3 or USBC. If you were doing 48 chanels at 96 kHz you'd want USB3, but at standard sample rates (44.1, 48 kHz) USB2 is fine. The best part about knowing this is that if your computer doesn't have USB3 ports, you can use USB 2 comfortably. The connector is the same, and most that have USB-C include a cable to go between that and USB 2/3.

 

Hi Mike,

thanks for the reply and the useful information.

I'll surely go and check your article on Gain Structure.

In the meantime, I'll try the balanced cable to see if I get some more signal. But I'll definitely buy a new interface sooner or later.

I am evaluating some of them like Motu M2, Presonus Studio 26c, SSL2+, Steinberg UR24c...

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At present I own a 2014 Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 (I suppose it is a 1st generation 2i4), which is connected to a mid 2012 MacBook pro. I use it as an input/output for my two keyboards: a digital piano (Yamaha P45) connected via USB to the MacBook and a Arturia keylab 61 MKII connected via MIDI to the Focusrite. As a software I am using MainStage 3.5, since I mainly perform live gigs, but I sometimes record music in my home studio with Logic Pro X, so I use also the two mic/line inputs for voice and guitar.

 

The Scarlett 2i4 has not done a bad job so far, but my main concern about it is the apparently insufficient output signal. Unfortunately I am not (yet) a super expert in audio theoretical concepts, so I will try to explain the problem with simple words: it seems like the interface is not loud enough. When on stage, I usually connect the audio interface to the mixer through a TS jack cable, set the Monitor knob to "max" and the direct monitor knob all to "Playback" side (I still have this last point not so clear...).

Although the Monitor knob is set to max (the master level in MainStage is at 0 dB), it seems that the signal arriving at the mixer is weak. Is the so-called "Maximum Output Level" responsible for this?

 

Yes, that's exactly the problem. The science behind is is called "gain structure" and, in short, it means that the output level of a source is reasonably matched to its destination. You have the knobs set correctly, but the input that you're using for the Focusrite output doesn't have enough gain to get the output to the speaker up to the level that you want it. There's an article on Gain Structure on my web site that you might want to peruse.

 

Looking at the specs for the Scarlett 2i4, I see that the maximum output using the unbalanced outputs (TS cable) is pretty wimpy. If you used Outputs 1 and 2 with a TRS cable, if your mixer inputs are balanced, you'll get a few more dB out of it.

 

So, first of all, I would like to know if I am making some mistake connecting or setting the interface that results in a weak output signal.
,

No, you're connecting it correctly, though as I said, if your mixer's line inputs are TRS, try swapping out the cable.

 

Secondly, since in any case I would like to upgrade my audio interface, I would ask for an advice for the purchase. The main features should be: USB connection (is USB3 significantly better than USB2?), 2 line/mic inputs and 2 outputs, MIDI 5-pin I/O sockets. Furthermore, the new interface should be generally better and possibly louder than the Scarlett 2i4 I currently own.

 

The Scarlett is a good interface, but it's one where they cut costs and not providing "pro" output level is one way to do it. I had a similar Behringer interface and was annoyed with its low output level (for the same reason as the Focusrite). When I wanted a 4-input interface, I chose a TASCAM US4x4HR, and one reason for my choice was the proper output level. You might want to take a look at it.

 

As far as the difference between USB3 and USB2, at the number of channels you're working with, USB2 is fine, though I think that you'll find that most interfaces on today's market have USB3 or USBC. If you were doing 48 chanels at 96 kHz you'd want USB3, but at standard sample rates (44.1, 48 kHz) USB2 is fine. The best part about knowing this is that if your computer doesn't have USB3 ports, you can use USB 2 comfortably. The connector is the same, and most that have USB-C include a cable to go between that and USB 2/3.

 

Hi Mike,

thanks for the reply and the useful information.

I'll surely go and check your article on Gain Structure.

In the meantime, I'll try the balanced cable to see if I get some more signal. But I'll definitely buy a new interface sooner or later.

I am evaluating some of them like Motu M2, Presonus Studio 26c, SSL2+, Steinberg UR24c...

 

I forgot to mention but I have the Steinberg UR24, not sure if it's a "c" or not. I like it, a solid piece of gear. Comes with some nice software if you buy new (I didn't).

The best feature is the ability to blend the input signal with the playback from the computer - this eliminates latency from the player's point of view, it's very effective and useful.

The others you mention should be great as well, surf the reviews and chose carefully!

 

I sort of wish I'd gotten the upgraded Steinberg with Neve transformers, just thought I'd mention it.

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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At present I own a 2014 Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 (I suppose it is a 1st generation 2i4), which is connected to a mid 2012 MacBook pro. I use it as an input/output for my two keyboards: a digital piano (Yamaha P45) connected via USB to the MacBook and a Arturia keylab 61 MKII connected via MIDI to the Focusrite. As a software I am using MainStage 3.5, since I mainly perform live gigs, but I sometimes record music in my home studio with Logic Pro X, so I use also the two mic/line inputs for voice and guitar.

 

The Scarlett 2i4 has not done a bad job so far, but my main concern about it is the apparently insufficient output signal. Unfortunately I am not (yet) a super expert in audio theoretical concepts, so I will try to explain the problem with simple words: it seems like the interface is not loud enough. When on stage, I usually connect the audio interface to the mixer through a TS jack cable, set the Monitor knob to "max" and the direct monitor knob all to "Playback" side (I still have this last point not so clear...).

Although the Monitor knob is set to max (the master level in MainStage is at 0 dB), it seems that the signal arriving at the mixer is weak. Is the so-called "Maximum Output Level" responsible for this?

 

Yes, that's exactly the problem. The science behind is is called "gain structure" and, in short, it means that the output level of a source is reasonably matched to its destination. You have the knobs set correctly, but the input that you're using for the Focusrite output doesn't have enough gain to get the output to the speaker up to the level that you want it. There's an article on Gain Structure on my web site that you might want to peruse.

 

Looking at the specs for the Scarlett 2i4, I see that the maximum output using the unbalanced outputs (TS cable) is pretty wimpy. If you used Outputs 1 and 2 with a TRS cable, if your mixer inputs are balanced, you'll get a few more dB out of it.

 

So, first of all, I would like to know if I am making some mistake connecting or setting the interface that results in a weak output signal.
,

No, you're connecting it correctly, though as I said, if your mixer's line inputs are TRS, try swapping out the cable.

 

Secondly, since in any case I would like to upgrade my audio interface, I would ask for an advice for the purchase. The main features should be: USB connection (is USB3 significantly better than USB2?), 2 line/mic inputs and 2 outputs, MIDI 5-pin I/O sockets. Furthermore, the new interface should be generally better and possibly louder than the Scarlett 2i4 I currently own.

 

The Scarlett is a good interface, but it's one where they cut costs and not providing "pro" output level is one way to do it. I had a similar Behringer interface and was annoyed with its low output level (for the same reason as the Focusrite). When I wanted a 4-input interface, I chose a TASCAM US4x4HR, and one reason for my choice was the proper output level. You might want to take a look at it.

 

As far as the difference between USB3 and USB2, at the number of channels you're working with, USB2 is fine, though I think that you'll find that most interfaces on today's market have USB3 or USBC. If you were doing 48 chanels at 96 kHz you'd want USB3, but at standard sample rates (44.1, 48 kHz) USB2 is fine. The best part about knowing this is that if your computer doesn't have USB3 ports, you can use USB 2 comfortably. The connector is the same, and most that have USB-C include a cable to go between that and USB 2/3.

 

Hi Mike,

thanks for the reply and the useful information.

I'll surely go and check your article on Gain Structure.

In the meantime, I'll try the balanced cable to see if I get some more signal. But I'll definitely buy a new interface sooner or later.

I am evaluating some of them like Motu M2, Presonus Studio 26c, SSL2+, Steinberg UR24c...

 

I forgot to mention but I have the Steinberg UR24, not sure if it's a "c" or not. I like it, a solid piece of gear. Comes with some nice software if you buy new (I didn't).

The best feature is the ability to blend the input signal with the playback from the computer - this eliminates latency from the player's point of view, it's very effective and useful.

The others you mention should be great as well, surf the reviews and chose carefully!

 

I sort of wish I'd gotten the upgraded Steinberg with Neve transformers, just thought I'd mention it.

 

The Steinberg UR24 is in the first position in my wishlist. Glad to know that you are satisfied with that.

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The Steinberg UR24 is in the first position in my wishlist. Glad to know that you are satisfied with that.

 

It feels solid, sounds good and is very simple to understand. I don't recall if it has a MIDI jack? I rarely use them, have 2 instruments that have MIDI out and one (Akai MPK25) also can be used with USB.

The Roland Handsonic HPD-15 usually gets used as an audio device. That could change since I've added some great percussion plugins.

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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There's an article on Gain Structure on my web site that you might want to peruse.

 

Wow! There is plenty of interesting articles on your website! Almost all the things I wanted to know on audio!

Thanks a lot!

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Wow! There is plenty of interesting articles on your website! Almost all the things I wanted to know on audio!

Thanks a lot!

 

Glad to hear that you wanted to know. The reason why those articles are there is because most are about fundamental principles that apply to both analog and digital systems. During the period when I was writing them (many are articles for a series I ran in Recording Magazine) was kind of the transition period, and the idea was to help the people who started out with computer audio, never having had to connect two things together with a cable, realize that the basics were the basics, whether analog or digital, and they remain pertinent today.

 

Craig has a lot of more practical stuff on his web site - how to use things that you got - and they're well written and presented. There's room for both old school and new school here without being nostalgic or radical.

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  • 3 months later...

A few FYIs: the UR24 is USB 3 and has the "C" connector (almost all USB 3s are C as well), although odds are you don't need either and could save money simply getting the UR22. It also has the 5-pin MIDI.

 

The MOTU 2 is getting rave reviews and a fine option IMO. They had some driver issues when they first came out, but as far as I know they are resolved. I'd also take a look at the Behringer 204.

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A few FYIs: the UR24 is USB 3 and has the "C" connector (almost all USB 3s are C as well), although odds are you don't need either and could save money simply getting the UR22. It also has the 5-pin MIDI.

 

The MOTU 2 is getting rave reviews and a fine option IMO. They had some driver issues when they first came out, but as far as I know they are resolved. I'd also take a look at the Behringer 204.

 

Of those 3 I'd stick with the Steinberg or the Motu. Behringer always looks good on paper...

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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  • 8 months later...
49 minutes ago, bill5 said:

Behringer gear now days is good, period. 

 

I would avoid the Steinbergs as the impedance for headphones is horrific (90+ ohms).

I've had zero problems with headphone output on my Steinberg and I have 4 different sets of headphones. Plenty of gain. 

Steinberg has a feature I like, other interfaces have it too but not all of them. There is a knob to blend the input signal with the recorded playback. Essentially it provides zero latency.

 

Behringer may very well be good kit but they blew it big time early on and I don't care for their policy of making cheap copies of other gear designs either. 

The worst mixer I ever owned, long since gone, was a brand new Behringer. Signal to noise ratio? Umm... maybe noise to signal ratio... I'll never buy another of their products. 

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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From what I've read, in their early years, Behringer dealt with a lot of quality/reliability issues because of their reliance on 3rd party parts that would have quality issues. When they were able to afford to build their own manufacturing plant for all parts, that all changed, apparently. Having said that, that doesn't mean that the quality will be quite as good as more expensive brands (e.g. regarding the output level being discussed in this thread), but it might be good enough depending on the application and it shouldn't be prone to the reliability issues of their old products.

 

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On 5/29/2022 at 10:47 PM, KuruPrionz said:

I've had zero problems with headphone output on my Steinberg and I have 4 different sets of headphones. Plenty of gain. 

Steinberg has a feature I like, other interfaces have it too but not all of them. There is a knob to blend the input signal with the recorded playback. Essentially it provides zero latency.

 

Behringer may very well be good kit but they blew it big time early on and I don't care for their policy of making cheap copies of other gear designs either. 

The worst mixer I ever owned, long since gone, was a brand new Behringer. Signal to noise ratio? Umm... maybe noise to signal ratio... I'll never buy another of their products. 

Glad you're happy with the Steinberg. I've long said stats should be taken with a grain of salt, but that one was so much worse than any other...

 

As for making cheap copies of other designs, that's a long-standing practice that many (most?) companies to do some degree or other. I get being burned by a company and swearing them off too (are you listening Verizon), just a FWIW that Behringer gear being crap is a thing of the past. They make really good stuff now and it's some of the best bang for the buck out there IMO. 

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3 hours ago, bill5 said:

Glad you're happy with the Steinberg. I've long said stats should be taken with a grain of salt, but that one was so much worse than any other...

 

As for making cheap copies of other designs, that's a long-standing practice that many (most?) companies to do some degree or other. I get being burned by a company and swearing them off too (are you listening Verizon), just a FWIW that Behringer gear being crap is a thing of the past. They make really good stuff now and it's some of the best bang for the buck out there IMO. 

Cheap copies? Stratocasters EVERYWHERE!!!! I build my own from parts, they are nice guitars. 

Add Century Link to Verizon, them and Bank Of America. I don't do business with them either.

Really good is relative, I've had a couple of Behringer mics come and go too, garbage compared to what I already have. I buy and sell used gear but I might keep it if it's good and I can use it. Most stuff gets sold, I don't need much. 

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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