Stop me before I NGD again...

[p90jr]

I made an offhand remark to the Mrs. that I felt like buying a new guitar since I had to go back to working in the office every day... and she said "go for it!" She takes a yearly vacation with her two lifelong best friends... my equivalent to that are road gigs where the expenses are covered and I make some money instead of spending it. So... I succumbed to a lifelong desire for one of these.

 

[desertbluesman]

I had a similar one back in the day. Have fun with it, & good luck with the purchase.

[Larryz]

Congrats P90x3! Very cool and pretty blue baby! I like the 3 volume controls and a master tone...is that a 3way or a 5way switch? Have fun with it!

[Caevan O’Shite]

"Stop me before I NGD again... "

 

I will NOT...

 

 

I am curious, though- what are the switch's available pickup-combinations, and what are the control array functions?

 

Three P-90 soap-bars all on, in parallel, is a dream-guitar sound for me; exquisitely lush super-cluck for dreamy clean and clean-ish tones...

 

Various in/out-of-phase parallel and series and series/parallel options would be icing on the cake.

 

I succumbed to a lifelong desire for one of these.

 

[KuruPrionz]

The way it works is, if you have a place in your home where you can stand, there is room there to put a guitar.

[Dannyalcatraz]

The dream arises from the ashesâ¦again!

[Winston Psmith]

I heartily approve!

[p90jr]

That is a pic of the actual guitar I bought... a 2011 Limited edition (400, half in Pelham Blue and half in Sunburst, I think) Firebird Non-Reverse "Studio" (in this case, supposedly referring to the pickup options more than the toned-down cosmetics, since Non-reverse Firebirds don't have binding and block markers or anything fancy other than a matching headstock sometimes).

 

I got it in a few days later. It was listed as "barely used" and that was an overstatement... the listing said it had spent the last ten years mostly in the case, and that seems to be true... not one single scratch or dent, so I'm nervous because I'm clumsy. But at the same time he was "sorry to break it to you" that no, he didn't have all the case candy. The Trogly mindset with guitars being "as new" down to not removing the plastic from the pickguards is getting on my nerves.

 

I was going to buy one that was cheaper that someone had "converted" into a one pickup (bridge) and one volume knob job... this one popped up just as I was about to buy that one for a bit more that was worth it to me in just not having to spend the time and money tracking down all of the stuff to get it back to proper condition.

 

As for the switching: 5-way switch... the usual "Strat" configurations... but each knob is a pull out! Each pickup has a coil tap in the windings that "thins" it out to sounding more like a Fender single coil when you pull the volume pot to the out position. The tone control pulls out and throws the pickups out of phase with each other in positions 2 and 4. The only thing I might add is a mini-toggle switch to add in the bridge pickup to position 1 (for neck + bridge) and 2 (for all three), which is how my favorite Strat is set up and the neck plus bridge and a compressor gets you into convincing country Tele land if you need it.

 

I did lower the pickups... the middle one - as is the usual complaint with 3 pickup Gibsons - is right where I pick most of the time so I lowered it to get some clearance, and the bridge pickup was raised so high that if I palm-muted or rested my hand where it usually falls the springs and screws made noise from moving... reducing the output by lowering them got it a bit more to my liking sonically, too. I'm more of a clean-ish edge of breakup player most of the time, with some very clean moments... the neck P90 sounds nice and jazzy with things rolled off a bit.

 

The fretboard might be roasted maple... I have to figure out how to tell, but I have no preference for fretboard wood other than visual things matching finishes so it's cool with me!

 

I'm loving it... this was originally intended in the 60s to be Gibson's Jaguar/Jazzmaster/Strat challenger (and Fender sued over the original Reverse Firebirds violating their patent for "offset waists in guitars," the judge's solution was to flip the design upside down to these, which hilariously make it even more Fender-like, especially the headstock) and this is in that camp, but the set neck and Gibson scale-length and P90s (even when tapped) and all that mahogany behind the bridge give it a little different of a sonic personality.

 

And I'm kind of craving a Maestro Vibrola for it, but I can't bring myself to sink screws into the top and Vibramate never came out with the long Maestro version they teased in 2010... I have a Duesenberg Les Trem (an improved and non-intrusive take on the Bigsby!) and a roller bridge coming for it... aesthetically, I just want that chrome rectangle behind the bridge... I guess Derek Trucks had the same thing with his SG, and he just uses a regular stop tailpiece.

 

About the delivery... I had it delivered to the office - a TV station - since I wasn't expecting to be home (the wife was actually home that day with the kiddo who was sick). I got an alert that it had been delivered so I went down to our shipping/receiving area and didn't see it... went and looked outside the door (you have to call to be buzzed in) and there it was leaning against the wall... that made me nervous, even though there's a security camera trained on that area as we've seen that doesn't stop people from grabbing packages and dashing... luckily we're not on the street where anybody driving by would see it.

 

And of course, this guitar reminds me of our old buddy Pink Jimi Photon, who I saw pop up in a group on facebook recently...

[Caevan O’Shite]

I was going to buy one that was cheaper that someone had "converted" into a one pickup (bridge) and one volume knob job... this one popped up just as I was about to buy that one for a bit more that was worth it to me in just not having to spend the time and money tracking down all of the stuff to get it back to proper condition.

 

Great serendipity!

 

As for the switching: 5-way switch... the usual "Strat" configurations... but each knob is a pull out! Each pickup has a coil tap in the windings that "thins" it out to sounding more like a Fender single coil when you pull the volume pot to the out position. The tone control pulls out and throws the pickups out of phase with each other in positions 2 and 4. The only thing I might add is a mini-toggle switch to add in the bridge pickup to position 1 (for neck + bridge) and 2 (for all three), which is how my favorite Strat is set up and the neck plus bridge and a compressor gets you into convincing country Tele land if you need it.

 

Niiiiiiiiice... Yeah, being able to have those combinations- especially all three on, in parallel- would be highly desirable to me.

 

Consider a Free-Way 5-Way/10-Position blade switch; I'm putting their 3-Way/6-Position switch in a Tele build project, myself. It (the 5/10) has the same five pickup selections, until you give the switch a little, satisfyingly solid feeling sideways >snick< and you've got five more combinations (go there, and then to the PDF; you'll be amazed). One switch, no extra switches or pots, looks and acts completely stock and normal... a Win-Win-WIN! This grew from the creation of a special 3-Way/6-Positon Les Paul toggle-switch for Jimmy Page...

 

I loved how I could very satisfactorily, convincingly cop shootin' sparks Tele tones with a P-90 equipped Les Paul I used to have, just a li'l rolling-back of the volume-control and adjusting my "touch"... I think that the greater mass of metal in the "Nashville" bridge on that guitar- as opposed to the vintage-y "T-o-M" of others- lent itself to that Telecaster essence.

 

The fretboard might be roasted maple... I have to figure out how to tell, but I have no preference for fretboard wood other than visual things matching finishes so it's cool with me!

 

I think it is, apparently those guitars were supposed to come with that; but it's hard to tell, especially just from that one photo. The important thing is, does it feel and sound good to you?

 

The color of Roasted Maple seems to vary widely. I have one, darker than 'regular' maple- but it's much lighter than yours, and with much plainer looking grain- albeit with some subtle figure across the grain. (That latter could be largely due to its being a one-piece quarter-sawn neck, and selected for very straight, uniform grain for me.)

[Larryz]

Thanks for the great info P90...sounds like you have a winner worthy of a few personal taste tweaks!

[CEB]

I play organ and keys sometimes in a great soul and R&B band. The guitarist play a Reverend with 3 P90s. He has the best Strat sound. Very much like a Strat but with better girth to it.

[Dannyalcatraz]

I play organ and keys sometimes in a great soul and R&B band. The guitarist play a Reverend with 3 P90s. He has the best Strat sound. Very much like a Strat but with better girth to it.

 

 

That"s kinda my take on P90 axes, too- especially my beloved Reverends. The way I perceive it is that P90 tones start where a lot of strat players spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on pedals to get to.

[Caevan O’Shite]

I play organ and keys sometimes in a great soul and R&B band. The guitarist play a Reverend with 3 P90s. He has the best Strat sound. Very much like a Strat but with better girth to it.

 

 

That"s kinda my take on P90 axes, too- especially my beloved Reverends. The way I perceive it is that P90 tones start where a lot of strat players spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on pedals to get to.

 

Indeed!

[p90jr]

I was going to buy one that was cheaper that someone had "converted" into a one pickup (bridge) and one volume knob job... this one popped up just as I was about to buy that one for a bit more that was worth it to me in just not having to spend the time and money tracking down all of the stuff to get it back to proper condition.

 

Great serendipity!

 

Indeed... I feel lucky!

 

As for the switching: 5-way switch... the usual "Strat" configurations... but each knob is a pull out! Each pickup has a coil tap in the windings that "thins" it out to sounding more like a Fender single coil when you pull the volume pot to the out position. The tone control pulls out and throws the pickups out of phase with each other in positions 2 and 4. The only thing I might add is a mini-toggle switch to add in the bridge pickup to position 1 (for neck + bridge) and 2 (for all three), which is how my favorite Strat is set up and the neck plus bridge and a compressor gets you into convincing country Tele land if you need it.

 

Niiiiiiiiice... Yeah, being able to have those combinations- especially all three on, in parallel- would be highly desirable to me.

 

Consider a Free-Way 5-Way/10-Position blade switch; I'm putting their 3-Way/6-Position switch in a Tele build project, myself. It (the 5/10) has the same five pickup selections, until you give the switch a little, satisfyingly solid feeling sideways >snick< and you've got five more combinations (go there, and then to the PDF; you'll be amazed). One switch, no extra switches or pots, looks and acts completely stock and normal... a Win-Win-WIN! This grew from the creation of a special 3-Way/6-Positon Les Paul toggle-switch for Jimmy Page...

 

I loved how I could very satisfactorily, convincingly cop shootin' sparks Tele tones with a P-90 equipped Les Paul I used to have, just a li'l rolling-back of the volume-control and adjusting my "touch"... I think that the greater mass of metal in the "Nashville" bridge on that guitar- as opposed to the vintage-y "T-o-M" of others- lent itself to that Telecaster essence.

 

 

WHOA!!! Definitely checking this out!!! Thanks!!!

[p90jr]

I play organ and keys sometimes in a great soul and R&B band. The guitarist play a Reverend with 3 P90s. He has the best Strat sound. Very much like a Strat but with better girth to it.

 

 

That"s kinda my take on P90 axes, too- especially my beloved Reverends. The way I perceive it is that P90 tones start where a lot of strat players spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on pedals to get to.

 

I think the P90 is probably what Leo Fender was basing his pickups on, with more "treble and twang" based on the country players who were consulting him on their needs? It was probably the dominant pickup of the 1940s along with Dearmonds... Strange that the sound of humbuckers was not fashionable when they were introduced outside of jazz players, and I guess a few blues guys with the last name King until a worshipper of them named Clapton made a splash ... so it's funny that Gibson was kind of chasing its own previous sound to catch Fender's sales in the early 60s. I was in a bar and "That's Alright Mama" by Elvis came on and during the guitar solo a guy said "listen to that great Telecaster..." and I politely corrected him that it was Scotty Moore's gold Gibson ES-295 with P90s... and he just looked at me like I was an idiot and turned away.

[desertbluesman]

I was in a bar and "That's Alright Mama" by Elvis came on and during the guitar solo a guy said "listen to that great Telecaster..." and I politely corrected him that it was Scotty Moore's gold Gibson ES-295 with P90s... and he just looked at me like I was an idiot and turned away.

 

Some folks just believe what they want to believe. Correcting someone like that is like pissing into the wind.

 

[Caevan O’Shite]

Try that switch, it's a brilliant idea and a piece of well built equipment! I love how solid it feels...

 

I may do a three pickup build in the future, using the 3-Way/6-Position version, and a separate switch or push-pull pot to simply add the middle pickup to whatever combination is already selected at the 3-Way switch; I think that would give me everything I'd want, though I'll also consider their 5-Way/10-Position switch...

 

Note that Free-Way also has two different 3-Way/6-Position toggle switches for Gibson stylees; the original was conceived of and created for Jimmy Page...

 

...the sound of humbuckers was not fashionable when they were introduced outside of jazz players, and I guess a few blues guys with the last name King until a worshipper of them named Clapton made a splash...

 

Don't forget Michael Bloomfield with the Paul Butterfield Blues Band, playing the humbucker loaded sunburst Les Paul that Dan Erlewine had traded him for his soap-bar equipped gold-top, around the same time... !

 

I was in a bar and "That's Alright Mama" by Elvis came on and during the guitar solo a guy said "listen to that great Telecaster..." and I politely corrected him that it was Scotty Moore's gold Gibson ES-295 with P90s... and he just looked at me like I was an idiot and turned away.

 

You'll have that...

 

Some people just never expect the unexpected.

 

"Crazy li'l thing called-" Whoa... !

 

 

And WHOA!!

 

 

[Larryz]

I was in a bar and "That's Alright Mama" by Elvis came on and during the guitar solo a guy said "listen to that great Telecaster..." and I politely corrected him that it was Scotty Moore's gold Gibson ES-295 with P90s... and he just looked at me like I was an idiot and turned away.

 

Scotty Moore's playing on his 295 backing Elvis with (P90) original leads to all of his early hits to include the 1st one (That's Alright Mama) is what started me playing guitar. I loved his sound from when I was a little kid and still do to this day. I consider him my mentor. Glad you set the guy on to the Gibson path... although there is nothing wrong with James Burton's Tele leads backing Elvis too LoL!

[p90jr]

I got that 5-way/10-way switch in last night, Caevan... I'll see how busy the guy who is nice enough to do that kind of stuff for me (I hate soldering) is these days... he is part of a boutique amp company, and a renowned luthier who is backlogged usually with mouthwatering 50s and 60s Fenders and Gibsons people send him from around the world to refret or repair... I'm usually embarrassed to bring my pedestrian gear to him, but he takes it in and does me right.

[p90jr]

I got that 5-way/10-way switch in last night, Caevan... I'll see how busy the guy who is nice enough to do that kind of stuff for me (I hate soldering) is these days... he is part of a boutique amp company, and a renowned luthier who is backlogged usually with mouthwatering 50s and 60s Fenders and Gibsons people send him from around the world to refret or repair... I'm usually embarrassed to bring my pedestrian gear to him, but he takes it in and does me right.

[Caevan O’Shite]

I got that 5-way/10-way switch in last night, Caevan... I'll see how busy the guy who is nice enough to do that kind of stuff for me (I hate soldering) is these days... he is part of a boutique amp company, and a renowned luthier who is backlogged usually with mouthwatering 50s and 60s Fenders and Gibsons people send him from around the world to refret or repair... I'm usually embarrassed to bring my pedestrian gear to him, but he takes it in and does me right.

 

Sounds like you're in very good hands!

 

And I don't think you have "pedestrian" gear... not at all. Especially with its being pretty regularly gigging gear!

 

 

But keep us posted, let us know how that works out for you, and which options you choose to go with among those offered by the Free-Way 5-way/10-Position.

 

I'm still waiting on some important parts for my build- primarily a custom bridge-plate, and some finish related things- but with my 3-way/6-Position switch (connecting to two Lindy Fralin Blues Special Telecaster single-coils), I'm going with the option providing the three extras, 'both on in parallel/out-of-phase; both on in series/out-of-phase; both on in series/IN-phase'. '50s Les Paul wiring adapted for Telecaster, and, maybe later, I might try a push-pull or push/push tone-pot for switching between two different tone-capacitors.

[Larryz]

and, maybe later, I might try a push-pull or push/push tone-pot for switching between two different tone-capacitors.

 

I have one guitar (Taylor T3B) with a push/pull tone pot. I suspect it uses two different capacitors and it really does restore my faith in tone controls. Before I bought the T3B I just ran all my guitars on full treble. Now I pay more attention to tone controls. I find the Gibson 500k audio taper pots to be the best when using humbuckers. Linear taper pots don't really do anything for me as they have to be rolled off too much to get the variation I'm looking for.

[Caevan O’Shite]

and, maybe later, I might try a push-pull or push/push tone-pot for switching between two different tone-capacitors.

 

I have one guitar (Taylor T3B) with a push/pull tone pot. I suspect it uses two different capacitors and it really does restore my faith in tone controls. Before I bought the T3B I just ran all my guitars on full treble. Now I pay more attention to tone controls. I find the Gibson 500k audio taper pots to be the best when using humbuckers. Linear taper pots don't really do anything for me as they have to be rolled off too much to get the variation I'm looking for.

 

For reference sake, re: guitar passive tone capacitor values and the depth of treble roll-off, taken from the Lindy Fralin site:

 

 

• Fralin Magic Cap (.0015mfd): Lindy"s favorite cap to boost the midrange of a shrill single-coil pickup. This value is extremely subtle and tends to work on bright pickups only.
   
  
• .0022mfd: Great for bridge pickups and bright sounding guitars, this cap will boost your midrange and tame a few of your high frequencies. It"s a little stronger tone than our Magic Cap.
   
  
• .02mfd: This popular cap is very usable throughout the entire pickup line, and works well on Humbuckers and Single Coil pickups. Gibson and Fender use this cap as a standard for more modern guitars.
   
  
• .050mfd / .047mfd: This popular cap works well with Humbuckers and Single Coils and goes pretty deep into the upper midrange. Use this cap if you want a warmer jazz tone from your pickups. You"ll see this cap used on vintage Fender Telecasters and Strats frequently.
   
  
• .1mfd: This cap will provide the deepest roll-off available. You will find this value in vintage instruments. The roll-off of high frequencies will start quicker and go deeper into the midrange than the other capacitors offered.

 

If you don't care for the tone of your tone control on a given guitar, change the value of the capacitor, you'll probably find something you'll like...

[Larryz]

Good info Caevan...A 22uf orange drop cap is a good choice for humbuckers and a 47uf is a good choice for singles to start with. Caps are not expensive, so if I was putting in a push pull for different tones I might experiment with a couple different ones like a 1uf for treble bleed or different brands ? I used 22's on my last mod with 500k audio taper pots and they are really working well with the 57 Gibson humbuckers. Putting in a good quality Switchcraft 3way also ended some cheap switching noise...

[Caevan O’Shite]

I have one guitar (Taylor T3B) with a push/pull tone pot. I suspect it uses two different capacitors and it really does restore my faith in tone controls.

 

I see that that is exactly what your Taylor T3/B has and does! Similar to what I might do in the future, after I've settled everything else. First off, I'd like a lighter value tone-cap that rolls-off just the high treble while leaving mids and some upper-mids intact, for a quasi mid-boost when using the tone-knob; but having a second, darker tone-cap to switch to would really lend itself to the classic Tele player's trick of using the tone-knob like a wah-pedal, as well as darker, woolier ("in a good way"!) classic Jazz guitar tones.

 

Good info Caevan...A 22uf orange drop cap is a good choice for humbuckers and a 47uf is a good choice for singles to start with. Caps are not expensive, so if I was putting in a push pull for different tones I might experiment with a couple different ones like a 1uf for treble bleed or different brands ? I used 22's on my last mod with 500k audio taper pots and they are really working well with the 57 Gibson humbuckers.

 

Do you mean, for a 'treble-bleed' circuit (cap or cap and resistor) placed across the volume-pot, to keep the tone brighter as the volume-knob is rolled down, with less treble loss?

 

(For what it's worth, above here I was referring to the capacitor used with the tone-pot.)

 

That looks to be a fine cap-value for a treble-bleed; if you're using just a capacitor across your volume-pot for your treble-bleed, you might want to try a capacitor and a resistor in series for that- it'll have even less effect on the perceived taper of the volume-pot, while still allowing more treble to come through when rolling-back your volume-control.

 

 

Here's another great article from Dirk Wacker's Mod Garage column with Premier Guitar, that I ran across searchin' up info for my Telecaster build project. I've used treble-bleed mods before, but I decided to first go with his recommended " '50s Les Paul Wiring for Telecaster" without a treble-bleed. I think that will be enough and I won't need a treble-bleed; we'll see!

 

(Be sure not to get picofarads and microfarads mixed up- easy to do!)

 

Deep Diving into Treble-Bleed Networks by Dirk Wacker; Mod Garage, Premier Guitar (< Link)

 

Our third treble-bleed network, shown on the right [see attached image], consists of a cap with a resistor in series. This configuration became popular in the '90s when Australian luthier Chris Kinman started to use a 1200 pF cap and a 130k-ohm resistor in series for his guitars. This scheme is regarded by many to be the best of the three versions, because it seems to solve the problem of the volume pot taper and the tinny sound. Even Fender uses it now. Their system employs a 1000 pF cap and a 130k-ohm resistor, and is dubbed the Fender Tone Saver. Values you should try are 470 pF up to 1500 pF for the cap, and 100k-ohm up to 330k-ohm for the resistor.

 

Regarding the two components, here's a rule of thumb: Brightness is determined by the resistor's value (less ohms yields more highs), but the frequencies that are present are determined by the cap's valueâthe lower the value, the higher the frequencies, and conversely, the higher the value, the lower the frequencies.

 

EDIT: I see that Fender now offers the "Tone Saver" for treble-bleed mods- apparently a combination of 1 capacitor and 1 resistor in one sealed unit that looks like a large, higher-voltage old-style capacitor; available in two different models, with values to suit 250k volume-pots (often used with single-coils) and 500k volume-pots (usually used with humbuckers), respectively. Kind of pricey, considering how cheaply you might find suitable capacitors and resistors and easily dress their leads and solder them; but a cool alternative for those not so DIY inclined, that will probably be a plenty good enough as far as choosing specific cap and resistor values for the job.

 

[Larryz]

They make a soldered resistor/cap combo (shown at the bottom of the page) but I was thinking about using a cap and tone pot. Can't say whether or not a 1uf would work on a tone pot but here's some info from Stewmac which may give you a couple of ideas. I think a treble bleed circuit with a push/pull pot could get you more into the Tele/Jazz world and back no matter how it has to be hooked up...

 

https://www.stewmac.com/electronics/components-and-parts/capacitors-and-resistors/orange-drop-caps

 

 

ps. you're right Caevan on the volume pot bleed. Here's an interesting video on the tone pot hook up comparisons. I'm guessing he would use a 22 and a 47 for a push/pull and the taper on the push/pull could be a consideration along with the different makes and brands.. He also mentions the pot taper making a difference when comparing caps. I'm also wondering how a 22 would sound on single coils?

 

https://www.stewmac.com/video-and-ideas/online-resources/learn-about-guitar-pickups-and-electronics-and-wiring/how-to-let-your-ears-find-the-best-tone-cap-for-your-guitar-/

[KuruPrionz]

I made an offhand remark to the Mrs. that I felt like buying a new guitar since I had to go back to working in the office every day... and she said "go for it!" She takes a yearly vacation with her two lifelong best friends... my equivalent to that are road gigs where the expenses are covered and I make some money instead of spending it. So... I succumbed to a lifelong desire for one of these.

 

 

Now that I look at it again, it's sort of a variation of the Gatemouth Brown guitar but different color and 3 pickups. Fat neck?

[Caevan O’Shite]

So what's the latest on that fabulous Firebird, p90jr? How's that working out for you, and which options did you choose to go with among the many offered by tha Free-Way 5-way/10-Position switch?

[Caevan O’Shite]

Dude, you're killin' me!

 

So what's the latest on that fabulous Firebird, p90jr? How's that working out for you, and which options did you choose to go with among the many offered by that Free-Way 5-way/10-Position switch?

 

Perspiring minds want to know!

[p90jr]

So far I haven't even changed the strings but I love the guitar. I took it to a practice with an Americana songwriter and they couldn't believe how much it can sound like a Tele with the bridge P90 tapped/split/whatever it is they installed...

 

I'll report in the future on the mods.