Controller Keyboard Suggestions for DAW

[Mike Warren]

I currently have a Arturia Keylab 49 Essential, which fits nicely on my desk. Initially, I didn't care about the quality of the action, which is pretty bad, figuring I'd just use it for step entry, but mainly use the pads and DAW controls.

 

However, after using it for a few months, I find it just as easy to use keyboard shortcuts in Cubase, and don't find the pads much easier than drumming on keys.

 

But I do find I'm often moving to my Forte to play parts in, which is on the other side of the studio. I have a computer keyboard and mouse next to the Forte, so I can start and stop recording etc, but it's too far from the computer monitor for me to see enough detail to do much more than that, so I'm constantly moving around.

 

As a result, I'm thinking of upgrading the Keylab 49 to something better.

 

I could add a 61, 73 or 88 key controller on a slide-out drawer under the desk as long as it's no more than 6" high including knobs. Otherwise, I could get a better 49 key controller to replace the keylab, but that will still be limiting for playing 2 hand parts.

 

I don't really want a keyboard with internal sounds, as I'd probably never use them, but if that turns out to be the best option it's not off the table.

 

Although I'd prefer a hammer action keybed, I'm not against an unweighted or semi-weighted keybed as long as it's responsive. Because of arthritis, very heavily weighted actions fatigue my hands pretty quickly. The Forte is a good balance for me.

 

The problem is I mostly can't try before buying as our stores don't generally have as good a return policy as the US stores.

 

There is one music store in my town that has some keyboards in stock, but their range is pretty limited. The only contenders I can see there are the NI S49 MK2, Juno DS61 and DS88.

 

Looking around YouTube, the NI S88 MK2 seems pretty popular, but no one in Australia has any stock. Most stores are estimating a September availability, but I'm okay to wait. I guess I'd get this version, which comes with the Komplete full upgrade. I am a bit concerned about the action, which is a TP100. I understand it's more heavily weighted than the TP40L in the Forte.

 

Anyone have any advice or suggestions?

 

Budget is not really an issue, although I don't want to pay for a bunch of features I'd never use.

[nursers]

I currently have a Arturia Keylab 49 Essential, which fits nicely on my desk. Initially, I didn't care about the quality of the action, which is pretty bad, figuring I'd just use it for step entry, but mainly use the pads and DAW controls.

 

However, after using it for a few months, I find it just as easy to use keyboard shortcuts in Cubase, and don't find the pads much easier than drumming on keys.

 

But I do find I'm often moving to my Forte to play parts in, which is on the other side of the studio. I have a computer keyboard and mouse next to the Forte, so I can start and stop recording etc, but it's too far from the computer monitor for me to see enough detail to do much more than that, so I'm constantly moving around.

 

As a result, I'm thinking of upgrading the Keylab 49 to something better.

 

I could add a 61, 73 or 88 key controller on a slide-out drawer under the desk as long as it's no more than 6" high including knobs. Otherwise, I could get a better 49 key controller to replace the keylab, but that will still be limiting for playing 2 hand parts.

 

I don't really want a keyboard with internal sounds, as I'd probably never use them, but if that turns out to be the best option it's not off the table.

 

Although I'd prefer a hammer action keybed, I'm not against an unweighted or semi-weighted keybed as long as it's responsive. Because of arthritis, very heavily weighted actions fatigue my hands pretty quickly. The Forte is a good balance for me.

 

The problem is I mostly can't try before buying as our stores don't generally have as good a return policy as the US stores.

 

There is one music store in my town that has some keyboards in stock, but their range is pretty limited. The only contenders I can see there are the NI S49 MK2, Juno DS61 and DS88.

 

Looking around YouTube, the NI S88 MK2 seems pretty popular, but no one in Australia has any stock. Most stores are estimating a September availability, but I'm okay to wait. I guess I'd get this version, which comes with the Komplete full upgrade. I am a bit concerned about the action, which is a TP100. I understand it's more heavily weighted than the TP40L in the Forte.

 

Anyone have any advice or suggestions?

 

Budget is not really an issue, although I don't want to pay for a bunch of features I'd never use.

 

I have a Kronos I can sell you Mike

 

But seriously - I use the 61 key mkII keylab for my DAW and very happy but based on your specs probably wouldn't meet your needs. I also have Nektar controller I use with my laptop that definitely has the larger versions and both Nektars I've owned I've really liked (current one I have is a Nektar Impact 25 and owned a Nektar P6).

[Mark Schmieder]

It's funny, I just went through this earlier today when trying to decide whether to buy a MIDI Keyboard Controller to compensate for not being able to bring any of my keyboards from California to Virginia when I drove to my new job a couple of weeks ago, and I was surprised to see what rave reviews Nektar gets for their two very-different-from-each-other models (available in 49 keys or 61 keys) -- although mostly for specific DAW's.

 

Other than for the already-mentioned Arturia series -- which usually has the best keybed response (being semi-weighted with waterfall keys) and MIDI specs (very fine-grained, as verified using MIDI Monitor), the new edition of NI Komplete Kontrol may also be a strong contender for DAW integration, but some reviews and buyer comments indicate a few hurdles (possibly only at initial release).

 

I would suggest giving the Nektar units a serious look as they take a very different approach to the other companies. I personally found the existing models a bit overwhelming so was looking at the just-released simpler models, but those don't seem to have as much DAW integration. Nektar, NI, and Arturia seem to have the most complete control layout for working with DAW's, but NI is a bit more focused on interacting with Kontakt?

[Docbop]

This guy's videos are gears toward the DIY song and beat makers, focusing on reasonable priced and geared toward DAW and non-DAW approaches. Maybe he'll have a comment that can help you in your decision process.

 

[video:youtube]

[stoken6]

How many keys do you prefer. Is 88 too many/takes up too much room?

 

Do you need knobs, faders, pads...?

 

There's plenty of unweighted 61-and-unders, and plenty of hammer-88s. Not much in between.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Docbop]

How many keys do you prefer. Is 88 too many/takes up too much room?

 

Do you need knobs, faders, pads...?

 

There's plenty of unweighted 61-and-unders, and plenty of hammer-88s. Not much in between.

 

Cheers, Mike.

 

The guy who's video I posted most his posts are on the small keyboard controllers from the ones with the tiny keys to larger ones. The DIY music world has a lot of options for that type of stuff.

[Tusker]

I have the same question and will follow this thread with interest. While on vacation with my daughter, I borrowed her cheap 25 key. To my surprise, I found that despite the flimsy keybed, mod and pitch wheels I was surprisingly productive.

 

I would like to get a slightly better keybed, as I was having to edit my velocities a bit. But I don"t really need piles of knobs and sliders because of this positive experience. I am moving only one or two variables at a time unlike in an environment like Mainstage.

[Mike Warren]

Thanks for the replies.

 

How many keys do you prefer. Is 88 too many/takes up too much room?

 

88 is not too many. Basically, I can either replace the 49 key on top of the desk or, if I go for a larger keyboard, I'll mount it on rails under the desk. I certainly have a preference for 88 weighted keys, as long as the action is not too heavy, and that's my greatest concern. I can't test anything before buying so have to rely on other people's descriptions, which is a risky proposition.

 

 

Do you need knobs, faders, pads...?

 

Well, I thought I did, and yet I don't find myself using them too much, but perhaps that's because I tend to use the Forte when tracking and just don't bother to pull the controller out during mixing.

[Mike Warren]

This guy's videos are gears toward the DIY song and beat makers, focusing on reasonable priced and geared toward DAW and non-DAW approaches. Maybe he'll have a comment that can help you in your decision process.

 

His comments just made the decision harder. Each one has features that make it better than the other 2. Particularly aftertouch, which is only available on the S88.

 

It seems all 3 of those keyboards use the TP100LR keybed and yet Sanjay makes comments about them having different weighting. I notice this happens a lot with keyboard reviews. I suspect it has more to do with how the onboard key scanner converts the key velocity into MIDI velocity. Many people don't seem to understand that can have a major impact on how heavy a keybed feels.

[drawback]

I liked everything about the Keylab 88 MkII except the action. I"ve had two with the TP100LR and parted with them within a couple of months. If you like Arturia"s controllers the Keylab 61 MKII has a high quality keyboard feel and build. I picked up a used Kronos 61 â it"s a fine controller and I love the action.

[Mike Warren]

I liked everything about the Keylab 88 MkII except the action. I"ve had two with the TP100LR and parted with them within a couple of months.

 

That's my major concern. Guy Michelmore seems to love it.

 

 

 

If you like Arturia"s controllers the Keylab 61 MKII has a high quality keyboard feel and build.

 

The only Arturia I've ever played with is the Keylab 49 Essential and its action is terrible. I find it extremely hard to get even velocity out of it. I've read that the MK2 versions have a better keybed.

[Irena]

On the smaller semi-weighted end, I've had the chance to work with and compare three of the premium controllers: the Novation SL MK3, the NI S49/61 MK2, and the Nektar Panorama P Series. They're all strong offerings (as is the higher-end Arturia Keylab, though I have never driven one outside of a music store setting). Action is of course a personal thing, but fwiw the Nektar P seems to arouse the most complaints--many people don't like the feel/weighting of the black keys. I found the Novation SL and the NI S49 to be *very* close in terms of action--they both feel like a Fatar TP/9S to me or thereabouts in balance and quality. The SL key surfaces are a little glossier and more slippery to the touch.

 

I ended up buying the NI S49 for myself. It is by far the weakest as a DAW controller, and as others have noted is designed primarily for use within the NI ecosystem. I have other devices I can use for DAW control, and have enough NI soundware to benefit from the tight integration the S49 affords. And that integration really is pretty great. The generous display and intelligent knob/parameter mappings to NI devices are easy to love, and that experience extends to third-party VST's that play nicely within the NI environment like U-he's plugins.

 

These days the biggest complaint I hear around the NI S boards is around value. Whereas Novation and Arturia offer a generous set of knobs/pads/sliders in a comprehensive package, NI boards at the same price point are pretty spartan in comparison. If it turns out you do need some DAW control down the road, other controllers might be a better all-rounder solution for you.

 

While it sounds like you're looking to upgrade, at the lower ~$200 pricepoint I've found the NI A series has a noticeably better keyboard than anything else out there. Like most boards at that price it lacks AT, and again offers little in the way of DAW control, but they've managed to get a pretty nice-feeling keybed into an entry level offering.

[Mark Schmieder]

I was surprised to see that some, if not all, of the current Arturia models do not use full-sized keys. As these specs are rarely published, it can be risky to order on-line, but also it might be difficult to find a store that carries enough models to make an informed decision by trying before buying.

[Mike Warren]

This is proving much more difficult than I imagined. If I could actually lay hands on these I would know, but that's not going to be possible.

 

Has anyone tried the Nektar Impact LX88+?

 

I'm concerned about the price and the fact it only has a semi-weighted keyboard. Because of my arthritis I could live with good semi-weighted action more than I could something with hammers that has too heavy an action.

 

Has anyone here played it?

[drawback]

This is proving much more difficult than I imagined. If I could actually lay hands on these I would know, but that's not going to be possible.

 

Has anyone tried the Nektar Impact LX88+?

 

I'm concerned about the price and the fact it only has a semi-weighted keyboard. Because of my arthritis I could live with good semi-weighted action more than I could something with hammers that has too heavy an action.

 

Has anyone here played it?

I had one briefly. I really wanted it to work. It failed on three points: no expression pedal, the pad lights were distracting as they wouldn"t turn off, and the centre of the keyboard rose like a wave for two octaves around middle C, cresting at about 1/4' higher.

[drawback]

I wonder about the M-Audio Hammer 88 Pro. Some reviews say it"s hammer action is lighter than the Keylab 88 MkII. Anyone?

 

link

[felis]

.... I have a computer keyboard and mouse next to the Forte, so I can start and stop recording etc, but it's too far from the computer monitor for me to see enough detail to do much more than that, so I'm constantly moving around....

 

Why not move your monitor to the Forte and use that?

[RABid]

Honestly, if you want 88 hammer action AND a quality keyboard feel, consider using a digital piano or a used 88 key ROMpler. That is where you will find the best key beds, and many will also have some basic control functions. I've had various controllers of all sizes and none have felt as good as my RD or Kronis.

[Mike Warren]

This is proving much more difficult than I imagined. If I could actually lay hands on these I would know, but that's not going to be possible.

 

Has anyone tried the Nektar Impact LX88+?

 

I had one briefly. I really wanted it to work. It failed on three points: no expression pedal, the pad lights were distracting as they wouldn"t turn off, and the centre of the keyboard rose like a wave for two octaves around middle C, cresting at about 1/4' higher.

 

Well, that doesn't inspire confidence, and doesn't surprise me since it's half the price of the others I'm looking at.

[Mike Warren]

I wonder about the M-Audio Hammer 88 Pro. Some reviews say it"s hammer action is lighter than the Keylab 88 MkII. Anyone?

 

link

 

Max had problems with stuck notes on 2 of them.

 

 

I'm getting stuck notes on my Keylab Essential 49, but considering how I use it, that is not a huge deal, but it would be intolerable in an 88. Makes me concerned about the Keylab 88 MK2 as well.

[Mike Warren]

.... I have a computer keyboard and mouse next to the Forte, so I can start and stop recording etc, but it's too far from the computer monitor for me to see enough detail to do much more than that, so I'm constantly moving around....

 

Why not move your monitor to the Forte and use that?

 

Physically not practical.

 

[Mike Warren]

Honestly, if you want 88 hammer action AND a quality keyboard feel, consider using a digital piano or a used 88 key ROMpler. That is where you will find the best key beds, and many will also have some basic control functions. I've had various controllers of all sizes and none have felt as good as my RD or Kronis.

 

I mentioned that's not off the table in my first post, but whatever I get, it needs to be able to fit in a maximum 6" high space beneath the desk with clearance. Preferably much less. I also want at least a mod wheel, pitch bend, sustain pedal and one continuous pedal input.

[drawback]

I wonder about the M-Audio Hammer 88 Pro. Some reviews say it"s hammer action is lighter than the Keylab 88 MkII. Anyone?

 

link

 

Max had problems with stuck notes on 2 of them.

 

 

I'm getting stuck notes on my Keylab Essential 49, but considering how I use it, that is not a huge deal, but it would be intolerable in an 88. Makes me concerned about the Keylab 88 MK2 as well.

 

Yikes. Well â¦. back to the drawing board. I can still vouch for the Keylab 61 MKII for an outstanding build and premium 61 semi-weighted diving board. And as I mentioned, the Kronos 61 has a wonderful one, too, if you can find something used. Lots of control points, nine faders etc.

[Mike Warren]

Has anyone played the Roland A88? Apart from my preference for wheels rather than the Roland paddle it looks to meet most of my requirements, as long as the action is not too heavy. Looks like it uses the PHA-4 Standard action. I'll see if any of the Roland DPs at my local shop use the same action.

[Mike Warren]

I can still vouch for the Keylab 61 MKII for an outstanding build and premium 61 semi-weighted diving board.

 

And you don't get occasional stuck notes when playing lots of notes?

[Mike Martin]

Mike,

I'm not trying to be a sales person, but have you considered a PX-5S? It fits all of your requirements, except one which can easily be remedied.

 

Height 5.31" so it should fit your desk.

 

Great action. Pitch, Mod, 4 knobs, 6 sliders, all freely assignable.

 

Expression Pedal - Since your purpose is working with a DAW, just get a pedal interface from here: https://www.audiofront.net/MIDIExpression.php

[Mike Warren]

Mike,

have you considered a PX-5S?

 

I hadn't because I have no idea if the action is gong to be too heavy for me, and no chance to try one. It seems they are made from unobtainium in Australia.

[drawback]

I can still vouch for the Keylab 61 MKII for an outstanding build and premium 61 semi-weighted diving board.

 

And you don't get occasional stuck notes when playing lots of notes?

 

The rare problems I"ve had haven"t been related to any controller â like software hangs, crashes etc. And my main discussion points in this thread have concerned quality of action and build.

[o0Ampy0o]

Anyone have any advice or suggestions?

 

Budget is not really an issue, although I don't want to pay for a bunch of features I'd never use.

 

 

Narrow it down to 3, buy all of them, try them and compare them, keep one or none and return the ones you don't like within the return window. Even if there is a fee / cost involved consider it an investment in the opportunity to find something you like. If The One is not in those three find another 2 or 3 to repeat the process with. Also if you find something you like you could return everything and look for one used to buy if that interests you.

[Mike Warren]

Narrow it down to 3, buy all of them, try them and compare them, keep one or none and return the ones you don't like within the return window.

 

Although the budget is not a huge concern, I do object to throwing money away. The stores here typically charge a 20% restocking fee if they they will take it back at all. Also, they don't refund the cost of the freight, even if it was free freight since it did actually cost them. If the product or packaging is not pristine they may not take it back at all.

 

There is no legal obligation to take it back at all unless it's faulty, in which case they would supply a replacement.