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OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?


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Trying to understand the culture here...

 

Obviously, some of the posts in this thread aren't consistent with how a serious person would go about talking with friends to have a rational debate, find common ground, or attempt to change minds.

 

The culture is the same as any other internet forum, that has minimal interference from a moderator (that would be me). I believe everyone is entitled to voice their opinions. Where issues get contentious is voicing your own facts. A good example is the VERS database. Yes, it shows X number of people died after getting the shot. However, it is unknown whether the shot was the cause, because some were in bad shape anyway. If you died of a heart attack, you got thrown in with everyone else. So the bottom line is no one knows. Those who say it shows people die from the vaccine have no basis in fact for saying so. Those who say it shows the number of people who died from the vaccine is minimal have no basis in fact for saying so. The only factually correct answer is "we don't know yet."

 

What people don't understand is the reason for that database is to catalog data from which (hopefully correct) conclusions can be drawn, after a careful analysis. But, people don't have the patience to wait for enough data to truly test a hypothesis with any degree of certainty.

 

This is an emotionally charged situation, that has caused profound changes in society itself. Study previous pandemics (there have been plenty), and you'll find that most were followed by social upheaval and changes in governing. They expose the vulnerabilities of a society.

 

The beauty of a forum like this is that people can voice their opinions. People are also allowed to ignore those opinions. My preference is, as often as possible, to post what I believe to be factual information. However, given the novel nature of this particular pandemic, it's impossible to know whether today's facts are going to be tomorrow's fallacies. Remember, at one point everyone was convinced the sun revolved around the world. Subsequent data changed that belief.

 

I think it's likely that subsequent data will challenge the beliefs of everyone here. BTW I don't have a problem with PrairieGuy. He makes some important points, but I tend to think that he (and many others) get their information from a limited number of sources they trust. Whether those sources are trustworthy or not is another issue altogether. I read the entire spectrum of political thought, and all it proves (at least to me) is that events are not reported in the true sense of the word, but spun for optimal marketing value to a base of viewers or readers they don't want to lose.

 

But what do I know?

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And of course, folks' opinions will be greatly colored by whether they've had any direct experience with the virus (gotten sick themselves, had friends die, heard horror stories from hospital workers, etc.). Those who have not been affected by it assume it's not as big a deal as it's made out to be. Those have been affected assume it's a bigger deal than it's made out to be.

 

Perspective.

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<...snip...>Yes, it's experimental and also not fully approved by the FDA. We've had decades to tweak the smallpox, polio, etc vaccines and they are proven to be extremely safe. Covid vaccines were rushed and are not as safe (6000 US deaths alone) and the long term side effects are unknown.

<...>

Smallpox vaccine was introduced as experimental, although it wasn't labeled that. It wasn't studied even one percent of what the COVID vaccines were studied, there were no phase 1, 2, and 3 tests, and yet it virtually wiped out a plague that killed a large percentage of the population. Same for Polio, Diphtheria and others.

 

When the smallpox vaccine was introduced, the anti-vaxxers published pictures of human females growing cow udders from their abdomen and men growing bulls horns ans snouts with rings in their noses since it was a diluted cowpox virus that was in the vaccine. History has proved all the anti-vaxxers to be wrong.

 

IMHO the resistance to these modern, well-tested vaccines are misguided. Of course, time will tell if I'm right or wrong about that.

 

With millions of people having safe results with the vaccines, and a very tiny percentage having problems, at this moment it seems that the vaccines are worth the risk YMMV

 

Notes

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<...snip...>

 

"Re-open to help the economy" is the most short sighted, dumb-herd "strategy" of human history.[/b] We know what has to be done and are unwilling to do it, because of dumb people politics.

 

To the plutocrats, those who really run our country, the lives and the health of the proletariat mean nothing. All that matters to these people is their ever-expanding personal wealth.

 

We are all merely pawns in the chess game of life, and sacrificing pawns for the end goal is the way the game is played. If a million of us die, and they get richer, they feel that they are winners. It's been this way since the dawn of recorded history, and most likely even before that. Before modern plutocrats, it was kings, queens, tsars, robber-barons, dictators, aristocrats, and other members of previous oligarchies.

 

Since the richest of the rich pull the strings of our puppet politicians, and control the media, it is to their advantage to have us 'open the economy' and keep their obscene profits growing, and if fewer than 10% of us die doing that, they are quite happy with that result.

 

If you study history, you see nothing new but the technology.

 

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My rural home town and the county I now live in has a vaccination rate of 23 and 26 percent. Outbreaks of the new strand have pushed both counties back into the red. Many who have caught the new strand were vaccinated but the issue is lack of masks and distancing. Churches and funeral homes are major outbreak sites because people go and spend an hour or more. Doctors say staying around someone over 15 minutes really increases your chance of contamination. They had planned to normalize schools and not require masks. Now they are questioning that decision.

This post edited for speling.

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Lockdowns only work if everything is locked down.

 

Yes. Otherwise it is not a lock down.

 

But you let thousands of people walk across the southern border every single day since Covid began, and not a single one had to prove they were vaccinated or get tested.

 

 

Ahhh... Blast it, THOSE ILLEGAL MEXICANS!!!!!? It's all their fault! It's amazing, using their magical Michocanic, Jaliscan powers for evil!

 

All this time I thought it was people going around without masks in public areas, breathing each other's air, not being responsible and staying away from people when sick. It's the Mexicans, huh? Wow.

 

 

That's dumb people politics at its finest,

 

.................

 

If you're scared, lock yourself down. Forever if you want. You can't catch Covid if you stay home. That's undeniable. But you don't have the right to tell me how to live because of your fears.

 

 

Do you have the right to drive as fast as you want? To shoot guns in crowded places? To play with fire in a public building? Your pretense of a lack of fear is exactly why there are laws.

Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com

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/ "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien

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They had planned to normalize schools and not require masks. Now they are questioning that decision.

 

I wondered why Los Angeles was requiring everyone to wear masks again, given that so many people are vaccinated. It turns out it's because LA was working on an honor system, where if you weren't vaccinated, you wore a mask and if you were vaccinated, you didn't have to. However, the honor system didn't work when you compared the number of people going around without masks to the percentage of people who had been vaccinated. So basically, vaccinated people are being told they have to wear a mask because apparently, the only way to get unvaccinated people to wear a mask is to have everyone wear a mask.

 

I don't want this to turn into a question of mask efficacy, that's been debated endlessly, and you have an encyclopedia of statements from which you can cherry-pick phrases to support whatever position you want. I just found it interesting that the honor system didn't work with people who didn't want to get vaccinated. Frankly, it seems fair to say "if you don't want to get vaccinated, that's okay, just wear a mask to help mitigate the possibility of infecting others."

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15 minutes really increases your chance of contamination. They had planned to normalize schools and not require masks. Now they are questioning that decision.

 

I just watched a video of Fauci this morning basically saying "if local governments feel the need to invoke mask mandates they can". No information about how delta is 4x as contagious, that it only takes 15 *seconds* to get infected, and that over half of the new hospitalizations are 18-49 years old.

 

The U.S. government is taking a herd immunity strategy now, as is the UK. That they're letting kids go back to school is sociopathic.

 

 

Delta has already started to take off in the States. We can see what happened in the UK, the data is there - except they're more vaccinated, and had MASK MANDATES (they've now gotten rid of). With an uneducated population that is fearless, unaware of the reduced vax efficacy against delta, not wearing masks - it should go exponential in a few weeks. Once school is back we'll have a full blown herd immunity experiment going; the hospitals will start filling up again. Except, it will be happening in slow motion in the rural communities where education is bad to non-existent, and medical facilities scant or also non-existent.

 

For these areas that will be slow to respond - or won't at all - it could be worse than last year. *They know this can happen and are effectively encouraging it*. They *knew* in rural areas vaccines were not going to be accepted readily, they *know* the medical conditions are bad, they *know* people are not as well educated about science: they made *zero* effort to both educate and warn these areas.

 

So they're now going to have the excuse that "we're trying to censor misinformation online", as opposed to trying to negate the ignorance by DOING THEIR JOBS. Unreal.

 

*There could be a tipping point*: delta, combined with no vaccinations, anti-mask sentiment and dumb could turn out truly epically bad. To a degree that even those in rural communities realize they're losing friends and family. If that is the case, I hope they realize who it was that duped them.

Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com

Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/

 

/ "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien

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If I could predict the future, I'd be into the stock market. But if I could have $1 for every incorrect assumption or statement about Covid, including both unintentional and intentional ones, I could buy Jeff Bezos.
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I wondered why Los Angeles was requiring everyone to wear masks again, given that so many people are vaccinated.

 

We've lost some efficacy being vaccinated. Depending on the study, instead of 96%+, it could still be as good as 80%, or as low as 50%. Transmission reduced to maybe 50%.

 

But the thing that is not getting across is that delta is 2x as contagious as alpha; which was 2x as contagious as the original strain. As crazy/hyperbolic as it sounds, there are studies that show it can take as little as 5-15 *seconds* exposure to get a viral load that can infect. One study traced a case back to a woman passing someone in a retail establishment - seen on the store's cameras - who merely walked past the infected person she got it from.

 

And there are numerous studies that also positively show you can get it outdoors. The airborne viral load is potent enough to infect effectively almost instantaneously.

While a vaccinated person may still have a 50% less chance of transmitting the virus, *it's still only 50%*, not 100. And even if one discounts the possible long term organ damage of a "silent" infection, *everyone going around in public is just allowing the virus to replicate and mutate*.

We're just prolonging it. While everyone is getting to spin the wheel with that 30% chance of organ damage with what they think is "just a cold". Thankfully someone in LA is bold enough to do the right thing.

 

 

It turns out it's because LA was working on an honor system, where if you weren't vaccinated, you wore a mask and if you were vaccinated, you didn't have to.

 

It's this way everywhere. In Augusta they just don't care, they think it's over. Probably in a lot of the (non affluent) areas outside of Nashville as well.

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/ "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien

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Ahhh... Blast it, THOSE ILLEGAL MEXICANS!!!!!? It's all their fault! It's amazing, using their magical Michocanic, Jaliscan powers for evil!

 

All this time I thought it was people going around without masks in public areas, breathing each other's air, not being responsible and staying away from people when sick. It's the Mexicans, huh? Wow.

My comment has nothing to do with race. Someone else pointed out all the international flights, I should have mentioned those too.

 

But when you let people walk across the border (regardless of their nationality) with no regard to whether they have Covid or not, then that is a serious problem if the goal is to reduce infections. It doesn't matter if the entire country is locked down if people are allowed to walk right in REGARDLESS OF THEIR NATIONALITY. It would be a problem if it was white Canadians walking across or White Europeans on international flights.

 

Attributing my comment as racist is any easy way to ignore the science.

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Do you have the right to drive as fast as you want? To shoot guns in crowded places? To play with fire in a public building? Your pretense of a lack of fear is exactly why there are laws.

I have concerns about Covid. I fear losing my freedom even more. I know from history that once you give up a freedom you never get it back. Remember.....2 (3?) weeks to slow the curve has become "papers please". My fully vaccinated GF can't visit her sick mother in the hospital...who became sick, by the way the day after she received the vaccine. She probably won't recover and will spend her last remaining days unable to see her children.

 

Music related: One of my bands lost our lead singer, he's so scared that he hasn't seen anyone other than his immediate family in over a year. He's double vaccinated but still won't go out. Along with the drummer we've been a band for almost 40 years. He has told us that he doesn't think he'll ever be comfortable gigging again.

 

When does it end?

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It turns out it's because LA was working on an honor system, where if you weren't vaccinated, you wore a mask and if you were vaccinated, you didn't have to.

 

It's this way everywhere. In Augusta they just don't care, they think it's over. Probably in a lot of the (non affluent) areas outside of Nashville as well.

 

Nashville was pretty good, overall. People were by and large diligent and cooperative when the mask mandate was in effect. When it was lifted, they were equally cooperative. But that was taken as "all clear" and tourism opened up, the huge 4th of July thing happened, etc. Meanwhile, the rural areas remain vaccine-resistant.

 

Summer NAMM was planned when it looked like everything was pretty much under control, but the world moves fast, and apparently, viruses move faster. I sure hope it's not seen in retrospect as a super-spreader event, even though it sure seemed as if the overwhelming majority of people were vaccinated.

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My comment has nothing to do with race.

 

Of course not! It's all of those teutonic Norwegians coming across the southern border that's to blame!

 

But when you let people walk across the border (regardless of their nationality) with no regard to whether they have Covid or not,

 

Right, if we only tested everyone that came over the border like we test everyone that comes in on airplanes, or on ships!

 

 

 

then that is a serious problem if the goal is to reduce infections.

 

So I guess that means you're for mandatory testing and contact tracing of all Americans, and vaccination, to reduce infections?

 

Or just the international people that come over the border?

 

 

It doesn't matter if the entire country is locked down if people are allowed to walk right in REGARDLESS OF THEIR NATIONALITY.

 

What you're missing is the concept that you lockdown to *keep people from mingling and spreading it*. It's already here, it wasn't Mexicans that made it spread, it was dumb 'Muricans. If we had a real lockdown, ala Australia/New Zealand *it would affect the migrant Mexican population the same as the rest*.

 

Attributing my comment as racist is any easy way to ignore the science.

 

 

Why would someone suggest your comment about people coming over the southern border was racist? I didn't say it was racist, did I?

Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com

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/ "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien

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I have concerns about Covid. I fear losing my freedom even more.

 

 

You don't get the "freedom" to be reckless with the health of other people.

 

(3?) weeks to slow the curve has become "papers please". My fully vaccinated

 

Hyperbolic fallacy. You have a drivers license. You have a social security number. You have various financial accounts. You are required to "show your papers" routinely in all aspects of life, and it's No Big Deal. Being able to show you're less likely to be infected, or infected and infect others, is completely as reasonable as having pass a test to drive a car to get something to show you're not going to hurt others. It doesn't impede you, doesn't hurt you, does not reduce your "freedom".

 

 

GF can't visit her sick mother in the hospital...who became sick, by the way the day after she received the vaccine. She probably won't recover and will spend her last remaining days unable to see her children.

 

 

I wish my mother could have had the opportunity, who died of "massive coagulation" literally on this day last year, to have had the vaccine.

 

Music related: One of my bands lost our lead singer, he's so scared that he hasn't seen anyone other than his immediate family in over a year. He's double vaccinated but still won't go out.

 

 

Smart guy.

 

When does it end?

 

 

It never will, if people continue think as you do: blaming it on "people from the southern border", not willing to lockdown and consider masks an affront to your "freedom". Meanwhile in New Zealand they didn't have a problem with that, and live life almost as if covid never happened. But sure, argue about how important it is nobody tells YOU to lock down, and YOU don't have to wear a pansy MASK if YOU don't want to, and YOU go wherever you want unvaccinated around other people! These are important things to YOU, YOU have no fear of what you can't see! Nobody is going to tell YOU to take the vaccine! YOU are going to do as you damn well please!

Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com

Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/

 

/ "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien

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In recent news, Maryland-based Novavax's Phase 3 trial has excellent numbers, well ahead of J&J or AstraZeneca's efficacy rates. It's a protein-subunit recombinant nanoparticle vaccine partially based on technology developed in the 1980s used in the Hepatitis B, Shingles, Pneumococcal, Meningococcal, and HPV vaccines that currently are in use.

 

Some numbers (graphics courtesy Novavax's official Twitter page):

 

IMG-2426.jpg

 

Novavax Is Now the Best COVID-19 Vaccine - The Atlantic

Safety and Efficacy of NVX-CoV2373 Covid-19 Vaccine [June 30th, 2021] - New England Journal of Medicine

Some info on why it's taken longer

 

 

IMO there's been too much of an overemphasis on the success of the Pfizer and Moderna MRNA vaccines that's overshadowed other projects. In my opinion Novavax is looking like a good option, at very least for booster shots and for fighting the pandemic overseas as production goals lag for AstraZeneca and other vaccines used globally. Any progress is good progress, and this one is in the same tier as Pfizer and Moderna. They plan on submitting for EUA from the FDA this fall.

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We're partly seeing the Delta backlash in the unvaccinated hordes who were determined to have a July 4th jubilee. Let's see how this all works out after the Olympics, another very poor idea that had too much financial momentum to halt for a mere pandemic.

 

This will sound rather nasty, but in 2021, you fail the Cognizant Biped test if you don't take in enough Science to know why Betty needs the vaccine. If the delta spike doesn't convince you, Natural Selection will eat yer face. Welcome to "The Stand," rubes, here's your ventilator hood.

 

My curmudgeon side is darkly curious about how this will all look in TWO years. My patriotic side is just mad that movie theaters are still too iffy to risk. Fantasy movies don't work as well without the 5:1 sound system and a screen so big, your eyes water. Damned virus.

 "I want to be an intellectual, but I don't have the brainpower.
  The absent-mindedness, I've got that licked."
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Just telling people they're idiots doesn't help anything. There are some people who, no matter what you can say, are so invested in their beliefs (and the infallibility thereof) that nothing, repeat nothing, will change their minds. Not statistics, not facts, not odds, not previous experiences in similar situations. My opinion is that these people have basically been suckered, whether it's on the left or right. To the carnival barkers who pretend to be journalists, those people are their marks.

 

In Tennessee, among those who aren't vaccinated, there are three main reasons in roughly equal proportions:

 

* They're waiting to find out whether vaccinated people have negative issues. I think all it will take is one visit to a friend who's gasping in a hospital bed, and they'll decide the odds of having negative effects from being vaccinated are dwarfed by the negative effects of having Covid.

 

* They've heard what they believe is true about "side effects," e.g., they don't understand how something like the VERS database works, and don't do the math on side effects vs. number of people vaccinated. (If I could go into a casino where the odds were 99.98% in my favor, hell yes! I'd be there right now and cashing in my chips.) These people may or may not get vaccinated, depending on whether they become disillusioned with people they thought were trustworthy.

 

* They don't trust the government. To me, this is the most credible reason. Governments do not have superb track records when it comes to veracity. ("Oh, right, yeah, I guess there really are things flying around that are so advanced we have no idea what's going on, and no defense against them if they get weird, even though we said they didn't exist. Ooopsies!").

 

However, let's get rational. People in power want to stay in power. If they can be perceived as having saved the population by a timely and effective program, they'll get to stay in power.

 

The problem that I see right now is the "no one wins" situation. If government locks everything down, the economy suffers. If everything opens up, people suffer. I happen to think there are nuanced solutions that take reality into account, where it's possible to protect the economy and the health of a country's citizens. The only problem is that in involves people being rational, and that ain't gonna happen.

 

So basically, you can yell and scream all you want on either side, and it won't make any difference. We're doomed until either a) this all plays out, or b) people on all levels - government and citizens - take full responsibility for making this work. I'm not betting on the latter. The only place that seems to happen is in science fiction movies, where humanity bands together to defeat the alien invasion (which is what covid is).

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Do you have the right to drive as fast as you want? To shoot guns in crowded places? To play with fire in a public building? Your pretense of a lack of fear is exactly why there are laws.

I have concerns about Covid. I fear losing my freedom even more. I know from history that once you give up a freedom you never get it back. Remember.....2 (3?) weeks to slow the curve has become "papers please". My fully vaccinated GF can't visit her sick mother in the hospital...who became sick, by the way the day after she received the vaccine. She probably won't recover and will spend her last remaining days unable to see her children.

 

Music related: One of my bands lost our lead singer, he's so scared that he hasn't seen anyone other than his immediate family in over a year. He's double vaccinated but still won't go out. Along with the drummer we've been a band for almost 40 years. He has told us that he doesn't think he'll ever be comfortable gigging again.

 

When does it end?

 

I'm sorry to hear about your mother in law. Google "Covid 19 test false negative" and a variety of sources are in agreement that false negatives are not uncommon. So it is possible that Mom had Covid before she got the vaccine and it was too late.

 

Speaking of vaccines, Notes is correct above when he states that all vaccines are experimental. Without the courage and sense of community of volunteers who were vaccinated as test patients we would never have managed to reduce or eliminate smallpox, polio, etc. And I keep hearing that it is not possible to create a vaccine so quickly but I question that idea.

 

Years ago, did they have the incredibly good microscopes that now exist? No. The powerful computers that can parse massive amounts of data very quickly? No. The huge database that now exists documenting both viruses and human physiology? No. The ability to put gigabytes of information online and access it from anywhere, making transmission of important data extremely swift and extensive in scope? No.

 

It would be much faster to develop vaccines now, we have much faster and more accurate tools, we have an enormous and valuable database built over time that did not exist back then and communications are very fast. The idea that it now takes 5 years to develop a vaccine because years ago it took somebody that long is completely absurd in that context.

 

I had the flu once for 10 days, it robbed me of the freedom of having good health for well over a week. Now I get the flu vaccine every year and have for 20 years of so. EVERY year they concoct a new flu vaccine because different strains appear. EVERY YEAR the vaccine is different than last year. And every year, people die from the flu.

 

You cannot defeat viruses, you can contain them. Or, you can ignore them but they will not go away. They do not care about logic, or freedom or anything human other than the host potential. Freedom will not stop a virus. A vaccine is pretty much the only effective weapon we have to prevent it from spreading.

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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Do you have the right to drive as fast as you want? To shoot guns in crowded places? To play with fire in a public building? Your pretense of a lack of fear is exactly why there are laws.

I have concerns about Covid. I fear losing my freedom even more. I know from history that once you give up a freedom â¦[/nquote]

 

 

Your freedom? Let me know when I get to urinate in public or can blow through stop signs.

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When does it end?

 

When there are no more suitable hosts, so the virus can no longer multiply like rabbits on methedrine.

 

So far, only two solutions have been presented to prevent the virus from finding new hosts, propagating, and going on for more or less as long as it feels like it:

 

1. Quarantine people who have it, and lock down.

2. Get everyone vaccinated.

 

I'm sorry, but at the moment, those are the ONLY two solutions that have been presented.

 

So if you want it to end, and you don't want to lock down, tell all the anti-vaxxers you know to get the vaccine. They should have done it months ago, but better late than never. Caught early enough, in theory it would have been over by now. But even at this late date, we can at least slow it down long enough to try and stamp out any future mutations that occur.

 

Does the vaccine have side effects? Yes. But to be fair, everything does - including food, caffeine, aspirin, alcohol, etc.

 

If you have a better way to keep the virus from propagating than the two options tried so far, reveal it to the world, and the entire planet will thank you.

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I'm tired of hearing about the Mexicans crossing the border.

 

Big business wants them to cross the boarder because it's cheap labor. Big business controls the politicians, that's why they get multimillion dollar campaign donations.

 

If the politicians really wanted to stop the immigrants, it would be easy. Conduct raids on big business, and if they have illegal aliens in their employ that don't have foolproof papers, close the business down for a year - first offense. Close it down permanently - second offense.

 

But they give us lip service while they enjoy the cheap labor.

 

So please, cut out the floods at the border, they have been invited.

 

Insights and incites by Notes

Bob "Notes" Norton

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Style and Fake disks for Band-in-a-Box

The Sophisticats http://www.s-cats.com >^. .^< >^. .^<

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IMO there's been too much of an overemphasis on the success of the Pfizer and Moderna MRNA vaccines that's overshadowed other projects..

 

From the outset Pfizer had more attention. All of the complaints against Johnson and Johnson have been things that are at background case levels - or lower, AND Pfizer and Moderna had equal cases to turn up in original trials.

 

That they were discounted in the trials - *because it's expected as background incidence* - but then blown out in the media, Pfizer and Moderna ignored, is corporate bias in action. And when it comes to needing actual information, like with the efficacy of J&J against delta, AND the response of mixing vaccines, there is ZERO info. But after diving online, I see that they've been mixing adeno vax with the mRNA in Canada and Spain from the outset. All they do is "report" the hype aspect.

 

I'm not for censorship, but this is effectively a time of war. There were things you did not, could not do during WWII for example, in the press; in the present situation, we've allowed idiots and sociopaths free reign that has made the situation FAR WORSE because they've had a platform. It's a slippery slope to censor, it's crazy, but *we'll never get past this the way we're going*. Ever. It will continue to mutate, to more vax resistant forms, possibly more dangerous.

I don't want to deal with this until I'm 70 and then killed by it. But that's what we're facing, because of "freedoms" that are effectively traitorous acts during war time.

 

Novavax seems promising. If it's as effective against variants as hoped, I DON'T WANT THE JERKS RUINING IT FOR ME OR THE REST OF THE PLANET.

Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com

Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/

 

/ "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien

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We really don't need to get into a debate on immigration policy in a thread about how, as musicians, we're going to cope with the virus.

 

It's ironic that the fear that drives the vaccine-resistant people (of the government, potential side effects, whether it's safe, etc.) is what perpetuates everyone's fear of the coronavirus, which of course leads to the government taking a more active role, which increases the fear about the government, so the anti-vaxxers become even less likely to get vaccinated, so the virus spreads more, so the government has to increase its role, so the people resist more, so the virus spreads more...rinse, lather, repeat.

 

The anti-vaxxers will tell you it's about something lofty like "freedom" etc., but really, their position is just as much driven by fear as those who fear the virus.

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I'm not for censorship, but this is effectively a time of war. There were things you did not, could not do during WWII for example, in the press; in the present situation, we've allowed idiots and sociopaths free reign that has made the situation FAR WORSE because they've had a platform. It's a slippery slope to censor, it's crazy, but *we'll never get past this the way we're going*. Ever. It will continue to mutate, to more vax resistant forms, possibly more dangerous.

It's too late, people are already being censured. Doctors with fair questions about the vaccine or who have alternative solutions that work other than big Pharma vaccines are being blocked from Facebook and Twitter. Google suppresses information that doesn't fit their agenda...all with full government approval. The government just told Facebook that information that they disapprove of should be removed. I'm sorry to be political but it's already too late. You've now effectively lost free speech in your country under the guise of "for the better good".

 

It's no longer about science when no one is allowed to question the effectiveness of a vaccine or offer alternative solutions. There are now 11,000 confirmed deaths from the vaccine in the US alone, and probably thousands more unreported. Go ahead and post that on Facebook or Twitter and see how long it stays up.

 

Believe it not...in spite of my comments, I've been vaccinated. I decided that the risk was worth it in my case. However, any business that demands to see a vaccine passport won't get my money. My personal medical information is private and will remain so.

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<...snip...>. There are now 11,000 confirmed deaths from the vaccine in the US alone, and probably thousands more unreported. Go ahead and post that on Facebook or Twitter and see how long it stays up.<...>

 

Where did you get those numbers? I suspect that is fradulent news.

 

U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) said it had received 5,208 reports of people who had died after receiving a COVID vaccine between Dec. 14, 2020 and June 7, 2021 (here ). But that came with clear caveats. On the same page, it says: 'FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it"s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause.'

 

Media Bias / Fact Check describes InfoWars here as 'a crackpot, tin foil hat-level conspiracy website that strongly promotes pseudoscience.' The Columbia Journalism Review describes the website (www.cjr.org/fake-beta) as 'fake, conspiracy, unreliable.'

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-vaers-rival/fact-check-no-evidence-the-number-of-vaccine-deaths-will-rival-the-number-of-covid-deaths-idUSL2N2O01XU

Bob "Notes" Norton

Owner, Norton Music http://www.nortonmusic.com

Style and Fake disks for Band-in-a-Box

The Sophisticats http://www.s-cats.com >^. .^< >^. .^<

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It's too late, people are already being censured. Doctors with fair questions about the vaccine or who have alternative solutions that work other than big Pharma vaccines are being blocked from Facebook and Twitter. Google suppresses information that doesn't fit their agenda...all with full government approval. The government just told Facebook that information that they disapprove of should be removed. I'm sorry to be political but it's already too late. You've now effectively lost free speech in your country under the guise of "for the better good".

 

It's the Gresham's Law of information. If you didn't have the people making $100,000 from hawking "cures" online with no proven effectiveness against covid, there would be less skepticism and no need for regulation.

 

I hate to keep repeating myself but there are only two solutions that have been presented as known to be effective, right now. I think everyone wants to live a life without Covid. Also, having lockdowns is unsustainable. So really, that leaves only one option. Of course, the government is going to get behind it, because a) they'll get the blame if things go sideways, b) they'll get the credit if covid goes away, and most importantly, c) the Constitution requires it in the very first sentence. Read it. One of the goals of creating a more perfect Union, detailed through the mechanisms in the rest of the Constitution, is to "promote the general welfare." Of course you can disagree with how the government decides to go about promoting the general welfare, but you can't deny it has an obligation to do so. I do not think letting hundreds of thousands of people die from preventable deaths and not doing anything would be seen as promoting the general welfare. This is why governments and constitutions exist. If you don't like what the constitution requires, then your only recourse is to push for an amendment.

 

It's no longer about science when no one is allowed to question the effectiveness of a vaccine or offer alternative solutions.

 

There are plenty of people questioning the effectiveness of the vaccine, including the companies that made them, and doing so publicly. They really don't know a) how long the antibodies persevere, and b) how effective they are against variants that didn't exist at the time of the vaccine's creation. It's the people saying that vaccines insert chips from Bill Gate, or cause you to explode if you go past a 5G tower, or contain a chemical that allows for remote mind control, or think covid is a way for the elite to kill off 7/8 of the population so they can have the world all to themselves (although if they do, they'll have a hard time finding people to do their lawnwork), who are poisoning the well for everyone.

 

If options are peer-reviewed and effective, they will be embraced. However, bear in mind we are running out of time. We don't have the luxury to hold off on doing something for another year while development and testing occurs with something else. We have a solution for now, maybe we'll have a better one in the future. Maybe not.

 

There are now 11,000 confirmed deaths from the vaccine in the US alone, and probably thousands more unreported. Go ahead and post that on Facebook or Twitter and see how long it stays up.

 

It won't stay up because, and again I hate to repeat myself, the correct statement is "11,000 people died after receiving a vaccine." THERE IS ZERO CAUSE AND EFFECT IMPLIED BY THIS STATISTIC. They could have died from anything. Anyone who dies after receiving a vaccine, even if they died from the aftereffects of a stroke that happened prior to getting the vaccine, or had advanced Alzheimer's, MUST be entered in the VERS database. Only then can the data be analyzed, and we'll have a far more accurate number of people who died BECAUSE of the vaccine rather than AFTER the vaccine. I suspect the former will be much smaller than the latter. But let's be generous and say 3,000 people died directly from the vaccine. That is a minuscule amount compared to 183,000,000 vaccinations, and immensely lower than the 608,000 people who died from not being vaccinated.

 

Please, don't make me repeat this again. But don't take my word for it. Look up how the VERS database works, and the conditions under which data is submitted.

 

On average, worldwide, around 150,000 people die every day. I can guarantee you that at least 100,000 of them died AFTER drinking water. That's very different from saying 100,000 people died FROM drinking water.

 

Believe it not...in spite of my comments, I've been vaccinated. I decided that the risk was worth it in my case.

 

I believe it, I don't think you're stupid, and let's face it, the odds are waaaaay in your favor.

 

However, any business that demands to see a vaccine passport won't get my money.

 

...and voting with your dollars is an effective way to voice your opinion.

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What gets me is that even people who are careful seem to have big blind spots. My nephew's family is extremely careful. I bet they have not been in a grocery store in over a year. They do online orders and parking lot pickups. About everything else they need comes from Amazon. But, when it comes to their daughter's basketball all fear goes out of the window. This summer alone they have been to tournaments in Tennessee, Florida, the Carolinas and this week, Atlanta. You cannot say anything to them about it because they get real defensive. It is like they have been brainwashed. Covid is bad, except if it interferes with basketball.

 

 

I'm tired of hearing about the Mexicans crossing the border.

 

Big business wants them to cross the boarder because it's cheap labor. ...

 

Not in my area. Mexicans are paid as much as anyone else. The BIG reason to hire Mexicans is they are the only group that can consistently pass drug tests. I first heard this 20 years ago when friends in Harlan KY were telling me that they were having to bring in Mexicans to work the coal mines because they could not find enough locals that can pass drug testing. The problem has only gotten worse since then. Add to that the entitlement that people now feel after getting free government money for sitting at home. Take away the Mexicans and not only would we not have any restaurants open in my area, the farmer's market would also be empty. I like to eat, so bring them on. We need people who are willing to work.

This post edited for speling.

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I'm sorry to be political but it's already too late. You've now effectively lost free speech in your country under the guise of "for the better good".

 

 

Yet somehow you, and many others, have come into the possession of The True Information. You are concerned about social media sites banning "alternate "news"" and "information"; which conflict with *actual, technically vetted sources*.

 

Meanwhile I look at the CDC and Johns Hopkins websites just about everyday; sources that ARE collating ACTUAL data. I read studies published on the Lancet, Nature, a variety of journals based on ACTUAL data. I listen to (not terribly exciting) lectures by virologists, epidemiologists. I have a couple of friends that are epidemiologists, doctors, frontline nurses and p.a.s. I am still able to discuss the subject on a very technical level with these people, including my wife - a nuclear scientist that deals with statistics everyday - we have wonderfully exciting discussions at dinner about whether the P value or confidence interval of a study on ivermectin is good or not. My wife says "show me the numbers": and that doesn't mean something someone is *saying* on Facebook or Twitter.

 

I'm not telling an epidemiologist friend "Dave Ruben says a whole city should have been killed if covid was real", or "VAERS says 11,000 people have died from the vaccine", "this Italian doctor says HCQ cures covid" because....

 

IT'S NOT FRAKKING REAL. IT'S NOT ACTUAL SCIENCE. IT'S G_A_R_B_A_G_E.

 

*I'm* not going to be censored from talking about it. I'm still going to be able to say what I *think* will happen (and I've been spot on for the past year and half). I'm still going to be able to say "I think ivermectin helps at a certain point". *That I can't reTweet some oddball doctor somewhere that says drinking apple cider cures covid bothers me not at all*. THIS IS WAR.

You don't get to spread information about allied forces to the enemy, or kneecap an effort to make things better.

 

. There are now 11,000 confirmed deaths from the vaccine in the US alone, and probably thousands more unreported. Go ahead and post that on Facebook or Twitter and see how long it stays up.

 

*VAERS is a reporting tool*. 11,000 out of how many million vaccinated, is what percentage? And you're claiming that matters how, more than the amount of people out of the same number as a sample set that would have died within 48 hours at any given time?

 

 

 

. However, any business that demands to see a vaccine passport won't get my money. My personal medical information is private and will remain so.

 

 

"Any bar that asks to see my i.d. won't get my money". "Any car dealer that requires I show proof of insurance before driving the car off the lot won't get my money". "I'm not going fishing where I need a license". "I'm not getting my power from a company that requires my s.s. number", "any restaurant that requires socks and shoes won't get my money", ......

Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com

Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/

 

/ "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien

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