BEST FEMALE VOCAL MIC UNDER $200??

[KuruPrionz]

There have been a few replaement clips for the MD-421 over the years. One was essentially an all metal copy of the standard clip. Some MD-421s have been bought for less than that metal clip. One that I've seen advertised recently is plastic and has a ring that slips over the XLR connector and something to prevent the original clip from slipping off. It's called the Mic Lock and comes in two styles, one to fit the original MD-421 and another to fit the newer MkII. Cost is around $30.

 

As beat as my MD421 is, a hose clamp should work fine!!!!

 

At a "new owner clearing inventory" sale that a friend of mine managed, I bought the Sennheiser, 2 AKG D224 mics (one with a non-working high frequency transducer) and a pair of Extreme Isolation headphones brand new in the box for $125. I sold the broken D224 for around $60 - described as it was. So I have almost nothing in the MD421, any way you slice it.

 

And the clip still works. It's just a stupid idea. Great mic though, one of the best dynamic mics I own.

[Mike Rivers]

I have almost nothing in the MD421, any way you slice it.

 

And the clip still works. It's just a stupid idea. Great mic though, one of the best dynamic mics I own.

 

My clips still work, so do lots of others. The people who have problems with the clips are mostly stage people who are in to much of a hurry to break down after a show, Grab the mic the wrong way, that is, mostly by the clip, and the clip can unlatch easily with the slip of a finger. I studied it once to see what all the fuss about disengaging clips was and I figured out how it was most likely to happen - carelessness.

 

Which of course has nothing to do with female vocals.

[KuruPrionz]

I have almost nothing in the MD421, any way you slice it.

 

And the clip still works. It's just a stupid idea. Great mic though, one of the best dynamic mics I own.

 

My clips still work, so do lots of others. The people who have problems with the clips are mostly stage people who are in to much of a hurry to break down after a show, Grab the mic the wrong way, that is, mostly by the clip, and the clip can unlatch easily with the slip of a finger. I studied it once to see what all the fuss about disengaging clips was and I figured out how it was most likely to happen - carelessness.

 

Which of course has nothing to do with female vocals.

 

I've no trouble with mine either but it does look pretty fragile compared to a clip for an SM58. Those break too, and you are correct, mostly due to gorillas.

[Notes_Norton]

I actually like the MD421 clip.

 

I use the mic for my vocals, and then I point it down when I'm playing sax. In the 'old days' when I used a shure, it would slip out of that cradle every once in a great while. My 421 never slips off unless I push the button.

 

After 35+ years of one-nighters (rough handling) my 421 finally gave up the ghost. I bought MKII and like it just as much. I'm still using the original metal clip. Mrs.Notes has been using her MKII for over 10 years now, it has the plastic clip, and it's no problem.

 

I throw all the stands in the minivan to transport them to and from gigs, and never pay any attention to those clips which stay on the stands. They live on 2 mic stands and ride in a small space with 2 speaker stands, two monitor stands (mic stands for hot-spot2), and two synth stands.

 

One-nighters are notoriously hard on equipment, and IMO both 421s and the clips are worthy.

 

But that's just me. There is more than one right way to make music.

 

BTW, in the early 1980s I was using a Shure 58, recording my alto sax straight into a Teac A3440 tape deck. My alto is a 1925 silver-plated King, and it has the voice of an angel, much better than new altos. I think it's the heavier, thicker brass that they used back then. When I played the tape back, it sounded more like a clarinet.

 

So I went to my local Mom&Pop music store (remember them) and talked to the owner. He went to the recording studio in the back, brought out a 421 and told me to record with it and use it on the gig, and if I like it, he'd order one for me. There was no deposit, no credit card number, just trust.

 

So I went home and recorded, the alto sounded like it was supposed to. Took it to the gig. We were playing at a marina and had been on Sundays for months. It was upstairs and all the windows were open. A musician friend came by, I was playing my tenor sax, and when she walked in, she said, "What did you do? Your sax sounds great! I could hear the difference in the parking lot."

 

Monday morning I want to store, bringing the mic back, and ordered one for myself. The owner told me to keep the loaner until the new one came in. I never asked price, and just paid what he asked for. A couple of weeks later a SamAsh catalog came in the mail (this was pre-Internet) and their price was a couple of dollars less, but by the time I paid shipping and handling, I would have paid more money if I bought it from SamAsh.

 

That's why I mourn the loss of independent music stores to the Big-Box and Internet vendors.

 

Notes

[KenElevenShadows]

I always heard people complaining about the Sennheiser 421 clips, but I've had three since the 1990s and have thankfully never had any issue with them.

 

Microphones for female singers under $200? I would agree with the Real MC in that you kinda hafta put the singer in front of the microphone to see which sounds best. But you could do worse than trying out a 421 or SM 58. I've had good vocals from a 441 as well.

[Anderton]

But you could do worse than trying out a 421 or SM 58. I've had good vocals from a 441 as well.

 

As confirmation...I recently played one of my songs for someone, and he remarked on the clarity and definition of the vocal. "What mic did you use?" It was an older cut, where I used an SM 58...

 

For me, I guess mics are like guitars. By the time I've finished screwing with the sound, they all sound the same anyway

[KuruPrionz]

But you could do worse than trying out a 421 or SM 58. I've had good vocals from a 441 as well.

 

As confirmation...I recently played one of my songs for someone, and he remarked on the clarity and definition of the vocal. "What mic did you use?" It was an older cut, where I used an SM 58...

 

For me, I guess mics are like guitars. By the time I've finished screwing with the sound, they all sound the same anyway

 

Our lead singer has always used an SM58 or Beta 58. He has a great voice and excellent technique and always sounds great through those mics, even though other people may not like them.

 

I've long since given up on caring about what other people like!!!! I had SM58s and they recorded well but that was decades ago. I've dabbled with the idea of getting another one and a 57.

There is nothing wrong with either mic, nothing at all.

[techristian]

I worked with a band for 5 years between 1975-1980. The woman lead vocalist LOVED her Gold Plated ,Shure (I think it was an SM 58 or 565S) It may have been brass plated. I think she said that she paid $150 way back then.

 

 

Dan

[Anderton]

I worked with a band for 5 years between 1975-1980. The woman lead vocalist LOVED her Gold Plated ,Shure (I think it was an SM 58)

 

Dan

 

It's good enough for Bono and was good enough for Michael Jackson. They seem to have done okay.

[KenElevenShadows]

But you could do worse than trying out a 421 or SM 58. I've had good vocals from a 441 as well.

 

As confirmation...I recently played one of my songs for someone, and he remarked on the clarity and definition of the vocal. "What mic did you use?" It was an older cut, where I used an SM 58...

 

For me, I guess mics are like guitars. By the time I've finished screwing with the sound, they all sound the same anyway

 

Haha, maybe so.

 

I think since we're recording digitally, if anything, there's LESS reason to use a condenser due to transients.

 

But anyway, I've gotten really great vocal sounds from a 421 or 58. Or a 441. But I also use a Lawson L251, which has this beautiful "air" to it which might be hard to replicate. On some vocals, this sounds amazing.

 

So like a few of us have pointed out, it just depends on the vocalist.

 

Speaking of guitars, or at least guitar cabinets, I've gotten great sounds from almost any microphone I've stuck in front. I feel like I can always make it work no matter what I am using (within reason, obviously, but any reasonably decent microphone).

 

And I've even pulled out a Heil PR 30 to use on acoustic guitars when recorded as part of a rock track, and managed to make it fit the track really really well with minimal processing afterwards, just scooping the mids a bit.

[KenElevenShadows]

I worked with a band for 5 years between 1975-1980. The woman lead vocalist LOVED her Gold Plated ,Shure (I think it was an SM 58)

 

Dan

 

It's good enough for Bono and was good enough for Michael Jackson. They seem to have done okay.

 

Those vocals don't suck, now do they?

[KuruPrionz]

I've got a mic thread going in Dr Mike's forum and I've mentioned lots of inexpensive mics because I don't have any really expensive ones. I'm hoping more MSN'ers will hop on and talk about their inexpensive mics too, there are a LOT of them to learn about.

 

I used to have a Shure KSM44 and KSM27 and they are both really nice mics but they picked up EVERYTHING. If a fly pooped in the front bedroom, you could tell from the living room whether it was a male or female fly by the sound. Since it's somewhat noisy here, I couldn't really use them. I had a Rode NTK as well, same story.

 

Most dynamic mics are more tolerant of getting in close without being overdriven and dynamic mics are mostly less expensive than good condenser mics.

I did pay over $400 for my Shure KSM8, they were pretty new then. Now you can find them for under $300, and worth every penny. Truly one of the best mics I've ever owned and for an odd reason. They really don't have any faults. The double diaphragm system reduces the proximity effect to more of an omni mic sound. The cardioid pattern is very consistent throughout the frequency range so being a bit off axis (to reduce plosives) doesn't really sound much different at all.

 

It's been great at gigs and is the first choice of a singer I'm working with, she likes it better than any of my other mics.

 

Meanwhile, I got tired of worrying about it on breaks (had somebody steal 3 SM58s out of the mic stands at a gig once, they got away completely), so I bought a CAD D-90 for $22 delivered and used it at the last gig. It sounds really good, I like it. It's not as good as the KSM8 but at about 1/16th the price it delivers probably 80% or more of the sound. Victim auction on eBay, it ended at a poor time and I was the only bidder.

[Mike Rivers]

Speaking of guitars, or at least guitar cabinets, I've gotten great sounds from almost any microphone I've stuck in front. I feel like I can always make it work no matter what I am using (within reason, obviously, but any reasonably decent microphone).

 

I feel the same way, but I think that a big part of it is that I don't know the vocabulary for a great guitar sound or what to listen for. I also don't work on projects that involve a lot of guitars, so the subtleties that let you separate one guitar from another in the mix go right over my head, or in one ear and out the other. If I think (and the artist agrees) that the guitar sounds good in the song, that's all I care about and we can move on. It's hard to imagine a mic so special that it can get a sound that you can't use and you have to get out another one.

[KenElevenShadows]

Speaking of guitars, or at least guitar cabinets, I've gotten great sounds from almost any microphone I've stuck in front. I feel like I can always make it work no matter what I am using (within reason, obviously, but any reasonably decent microphone).

 

I feel the same way, but I think that a big part of it is that I don't know the vocabulary for a great guitar sound or what to listen for. I also don't work on projects that involve a lot of guitars, so the subtleties that let you separate one guitar from another in the mix go right over my head, or in one ear and out the other. If I think (and the artist agrees) that the guitar sounds good in the song, that's all I care about and we can move on. It's hard to imagine a mic so special that it can get a sound that you can't use and you have to get out another one.

 

I've used a PZM, SM 57s, 421s, AT4060, L251, Heil PR 30, and probably a few others I can't remember.

 

If it's "fizzy" sounding and distorted, I try and address that right away. I hate that "bee in a bottle" sound. If the guitarist can't hear that or refuses to change, then I get the "darkest" microphone I can find. If that microphone is unavailable, then I grab whatever I have, move it around until it sounds the best it can, and gently roll off the highs going in.

 

If it's a clean sound, sometimes I go for an omni LDC to get this beautiful wrapped around sound. But if that's not available, maybe I'll pull a dynamic back or use a couple or whatever. I don't know. It always sounds good in the end. I think we all get way too hung up on microphones sometimes.

 

Get a decent microphone. Move it around. Put it through a decent mic preamp. Get the player and his sound as great as possible. Press "record".

 

I got this sort of attitude after watching someone take hours to tune a drum set, then watch the engineer try twenty different microphones in different positions and run back and forth, then use multiple microphones just for the snare. Universes bloomed, stars were born and then died, and then we got our snare sound. Great. Now, on to the toms....

 

Little wonder bands used to do lines on the console and get drunk while recording. Maybe that was the sane thing to do.

 

Seeing this made me think, "If I do recording engineering, I'm throwing down. I get my sound, get it good and solid. I'll care, of course, but I'm not going to put anybody through that." And you know what? It always sounded really good in the end.

[Mike Rivers]

My approach is to get a clean sound first - with the stipulation that "clean" means sounding like whatever crap is coming out of the player's amplifier. Then we can start mucking it up from there, or, if he doesn't like the recorded sound, tell him to change it - he has control over the knobs and strings.

[Anderton]

If it's "fizzy" sounding and distorted, I try and address that right away. I hate that "bee in a bottle" sound.

 

So do I. With amp sims, the bad news is that they model it accurately. The good news is I can get rid of it

[KuruPrionz]

Y'all mean that "thin yet harsh" tone with the banshee scream?

 

So many guitarists use way too much gain, the amps generally come with presets like "bee in a bottle" or "wasp in a jam jar" or "kazoo on crank".

I totally get why so many players hate a lot of the newer multi-programmed amps, you have to stop and adjust the dials before you can do anything.

Time and again I find that turning the Gain (or Pre Gain) knob way down and turning the back end way up will cure a world of nasty tones.

 

Then you have a shot at EQing something decent.

 

I've been hesitating to try the Soldano amp IK gave away when they started pushing Amplitube 5. I haven't tried the Mesa Rectifier either but I know from owning 9 Mesas that there will be some nice clean tones on there and some mid to low gain tones that sing. The Chandler GAV19T gets my attention mostly, that is a really great sounding plugin.

[Mike Rivers]

Y'all mean that "thin yet harsh" tone with the banshee scream?

 

So many guitarists use way too much gain, the amps generally come with presets like "bee in a bottle" or "wasp in a jam jar" or "kazoo on crank".

I totally get why so many players hate a lot of the newer multi-programmed amps, you have to stop and adjust the dials before you can do anything.

Time and again I find that turning the Gain (or Pre Gain) knob way down and turning the back end way up will cure a world of nasty tones.

 

Time and again I find that turning the Gain (or Pre Gain) knob way down and turning the back end way up will cure a world of nasty tones.

 

It's all about gain structure. With a mic preamp, we don't want to get the signal into the headroom level range, except maybe just a little for a bit of, well, you know, distortion. But it's easy to overdo it with a guitar amplifier because, by nature (that is, the "nature of design"), they have lots of gain on the front end. But just because it's there doesn't mean you have to use it. The back (speaker) end will only get so loud.

[KuruPrionz]

Y'all mean that "thin yet harsh" tone with the banshee scream?

 

So many guitarists use way too much gain, the amps generally come with presets like "bee in a bottle" or "wasp in a jam jar" or "kazoo on crank".

I totally get why so many players hate a lot of the newer multi-programmed amps, you have to stop and adjust the dials before you can do anything.

Time and again I find that turning the Gain (or Pre Gain) knob way down and turning the back end way up will cure a world of nasty tones.

 

Time and again I find that turning the Gain (or Pre Gain) knob way down and turning the back end way up will cure a world of nasty tones.

 

It's all about gain structure. With a mic preamp, we don't want to get the signal into the headroom level range, except maybe just a little for a bit of, well, you know, distortion. But it's easy to overdo it with a guitar amplifier because, by nature (that is, the "nature of design"), they have lots of gain on the front end. But just because it's there doesn't mean you have to use it. The back (speaker) end will only get so loud.

 

At a certain point it literally becomes impossible to identify a particular guitar because all of that information is lost due to clipping. Square waves are square waves regardless of input device and the high levels of gain available on many guitar amps push the signal to be more square than not and totally lacking in character.

[Anderton]

Time and again I find that turning the Gain (or Pre Gain) knob way down and turning the back end way up will cure a world of nasty tones.

 

I think the people who design presets use thin strings and thin picks. It's also been my experience that turning down the gain with sims makes presets sound better.

 

As to miking amps, I prefer to go a bit back from the speaker, not up totally close.

[techristian]

And speaking of MICs, I put up a drum video a few days ago and after hours of editing and production, I missed ONE TINY PROBLEM. My left bass drum mic was coming in and out, and because it is on the beater side, the snare also comes in and out and the left bass drum is almost inaudible. I put the video up nevertheless, but ARGGGHHHH !!!

 

Anyway, it isn't the mixer. It may be an loose wire. I also noticed the the XLR on the mixer end was VERY SLOPPY !!

 

This was mixed with the Mackie 32-4. I'LL GET THIS RIGHT EVENTUALLY !!

 

https://rumble.com/vk0ejy-double-bass-drum-video.html

[techristian]

Anyway, thinking about this today, I think I may have figured it out. Having the microphone mounted directly on the drum may have caused so much vibration that it was making and breaking connection.

 

The sad thing is that I didn't realize it until now. After 40 years of using SPONGE earplugs, I recently discovered that I was pushing the wax deep into my ear canal. I was going to the doctor almost yearly lately getting the wax blown out. So now I'm using OVER THE EARS hearing protection...as I used in the video....and.....my hearing is getting better (or not getting worse) and I am hearing more.

 

 

Everything happens for a reason, and maybe my time has finally come !

 

Dan

[Notes_Norton]

I use Etymotic or Westone ear plugs. I have an audiologist make the mold, send the mold to either of those companies, and I put either the 15 or 25 db buttons in them. They sound much better than the foam earplugs as the attenuation of the 15s is fairly flat and the hit freq roll off on the 25s is slight.

 

Notes

[KuruPrionz]

Anyway, thinking about this today, I think I may have figured it out. Having the microphone mounted directly on the drum may have caused so much vibration that it was making and breaking connection.

 

The sad thing is that I didn't realize it until now. After 40 years of using SPONGE earplugs, I recently discovered that I was pushing the wax deep into my ear canal. I was going to the doctor almost yearly lately getting the wax blown out. So now I'm using OVER THE EARS hearing protection...as I used in the video....and.....my hearing is getting better (or not getting worse) and I am hearing more.

 

 

Everything happens for a reason, and maybe my time has finally come !

 

Dan

 

Doctor recommended I use Debrox which is an over the counter ear wax softener and after a few treatments over a couple of days to gently spray warm water into the ear canal with a syringe.

Ear wax comes out pretty easily that way, more of it than I want but better to get it out of there.

 

I would recommend never mounting microphones to drums unless you have something that is absolutely secure and then you should expect there will be sounds transmitted through vibration that you may not hear upon listening to the drum being played. Direct resonant contact can create some interesting artifacts.

[Anderton]

+1 on Debrox, it's works and is non-invasive.

[Morrissey]

I've seen nothing but good comments about the XM8500. The reviews on Sweetwater are basically that it's best ratio of value to price. $20 for mic? Seriously?

 

 

Thanks for this tip. I recommended this Behringer XM8500 to a bandmate who needed an extra vocal mic for an open mic event. Another bandmate chimed in that he already has one of these and confirmed it is a great bang for the buck.

[The Real MC]

I have a hearing impairment since birth in both ears and wear a hearing aid during my waking hours, so I'm always pushing wax in the ear canal and the ear molds cause hardened wax. I used to get the wax cleared out at the audiologist, after my last visit they suggested applying cocoa butter to dissolve the hardened wax. So every few months I apply the cocoa butter (the soft paste) with a q-tip just before bedtime, and by morning the ears are cleared up and I wipe the canals dry with a tissue. Haven't needed to go back to the audiologist since then.

 

Do not EVER push a q-tip past the outer ear canal.

[Notes_Norton]

I had an ear wax problem when I was using foam plugs, but after I got the audiologist fitted high fidelity musician's ear plugs, the biggest problem is wax inside the plug which is easy to remove.

 

I have been known to use the now unapproved method of putting an eyedropper full of hydrogen peroxide into an ear canal, letting it bubble for about 5 minutes before taking a shower, and then rinsing it out with an ear syringe in the shower using hot water.

 

Notes