Plugins vs. Clonewheels vs. Modules

[elif]

It always amazes me there is more talk about clones than the real thing. A Leslie and a real Hammond have a lot of facets. I think it helps to know the actual instruments. There will always be guys that carry the real thing.

There's also more talk here about digital pianos than actual grand pianos. ;-) And Rhodes simulations than real Rhodes, etc.

 

Not so amazing, really. Sure, there are people carrying the real thing. But relatively few people are interested in bringing 400-500 pounds of Hammond+Leslie to a gig anymore.

IMO the newer clonewheels today and a real Leslie pretty much cover the sound. The tactile feel is where I'd like to see some improvement. Something with a longer hinge point for a key would help maybe.

[ElmerJFudd]

Old Hammond organs get a second life with midi conversion by Analog Outfitters.

 

[video:youtube]

[davinwv]

Old Hammond organs get a second life with midi conversion by Analog Outfitters.

 

[video:youtube]

 

Unfortunately, I think AO has been out of business since 2019. I always had my eye on their Organic 161!

[mate stubb]

IMO the newer clonewheels today and a real Leslie pretty much cover the sound. The tactile feel is where I'd like to see some improvement. Something with a longer hinge point for a key would help maybe.

 

It absolutely helps. I built my controller using real Hammond key rails for that reason, and paid close attention to trigger point and key dip depth. The playing feel is far better than on any of my Legend or Mojo clones.

[Aynsley Green]

Hadn't thought about Kurzweil, but you're right, better feature set than the MODX. Played a PC2x back in the day a fair bit, is it pretty much the same Hammond emulation as back then?

I don't know how much they have or haven't changed KB3 over the years, though I know they have added more Leslie sim options.

 

But a Clonewheel up top makes a lot more sense. Synths and pianos on the bottom.

Clonewheel up top, pianos on bottom is typically the case... synths can go either way, people have different preferences, though more often people want it on a non-hammer action. I think that harkens back to the early days of synths where sounds typically weren't velocity sensitive. In that context, the additional dynamic control of a hammer action doesn't matter, so you're trading off speed for nothing. But if you make a lot of use of velocity in your synth playing, hammer action can be advantageous. Of course, MIDI can largely address issues of which sound you want to be playing from which set of keys. What size/action is your MODX?

 

Yamaha MODX6 - replacement for my Nord Electro 6D. With 3rd party libraries like 'Purgatory Creek' the sounds are nearly as good as the Nord, but without the programming limitations!

Not the best action, but not the worst. MIDIing from one board to another becomes a pain, having to create blank patches etc, and the MIDI implementation on the MODX is weirdly limited - the Achilles heel, really.

 

My main gig these days is a Yacht Rock thing, so it's big piano parts and some fancy synth things. Been using just the MODX6, which does the job, but slightly insane on a 61 - a lot of spamming the octave button. And it also looks kind of aesthetically anachronistic.

Hence, thinking about a Nord Grand on the bottom, with my Korg Prologue up top, but I need some of the fancy programming of the MODX for that show. So I might sample some patches from the Korg Prologue into the MODX, sit it on the 'shelf' of the Nord Grand, and still have the whole show in the MODX6 for smaller gigs or flying gigs (and redundancy).

 

...but I feel as though I've gotten off topic in my own post. If I needed proper Hammond on top of that rig, I guess I'd just have to schlep the Hammond SK2, which is getting a bit silly. Hence the Module route, I guess?

[AnotherScott]

the MIDI implementation on the MODX is weirdly limited - the Achilles heel, really.

The MIDI implementation as a sound source has unexpected limitations, but as a controller, the MODX is actually excellent at letting you integrate internal and external sounds, better than most.

[Aynsley Green]

The MIDI implementation as a sound source has unexpected limitations, but as a controller, the MODX is actually excellent at letting you integrate internal and external sounds, better than most.

 

To be honest I haven't really explored using it in that fashion, beyond driving some synths on my laptop. Had it for a year and still feel as though I've only scratched the surface, it's a deep machine!

[Brad Kaenel]

Yesterday I had my first rehearsal for a Nashville-ish country show where my role is 'keys' (i.e. everything except AP). After spending a week checking out all the gear and connections, I was convinced I could do it with just a Roland A-49 controller (one of the few midsize controllers that has both sustain and expression pedal inputs), Nektar NP-1 and Yamaha FC7 pedals, an iPad with Korg Module and VB3m, and a Korg PlugKey midi interface. No AC required (nor possible with the PlugKey).

 

Got to rehearsal and struggled the whole time with issues I hadn"t thought of, or didn"t experience while I was testing: PlugKey kept 'disconnecting'; Module wouldn"t recognize the expression pedal; VB3m audio would be all distorted and static-y when switching back from playing Module; iPad battery drain was faster than I anticipated; the 5-lb A-49 kept sliding around on the stand; etc. Nobody else was aware, but I was unplugging/replugging cords, stopping/restarting apps, resetting config parameters, untangling bitty cord snarls â the entire time. It was incredibly distracting, and I didn"t play as well as I knew I was capable of.

 

I get it; we all go thru some pains when breaking in a new rig. But none of the things I mentioned are things I can fix (save duct-taping the controller down), and I don"t really want to try it again. I just bought a Mojo Desktop module for use with my Legend '70s piano (a pairing which works fantastically, BTW), so I got home and immediately ordered a Juno-DS 61. That board gives me a nice (heavier) controller for the Mojo and all the synth stuff I need â and it"s hardware. The iPad experiment was a necessary one for me to try, but it did nothing to convince me that it was simpler to setup, or was just as reliable.

 

Yah, I"m old and set in my ways. Gimme hardware, please.

[Aynsley Green]

Yesterday I had my first rehearsal for a Nashville-ish country show where my role is 'keys' (i.e. everything except AP). After spending a week checking out all the gear and connections, I was convinced I could do it with just a Roland A-49 controller (one of the few midsize controllers that has both sustain and expression pedal inputs), Nektar NP-1 and Yamaha FC7 pedals, an iPad with Korg Module and VB3m, and a Korg PlugKey midi interface. No AC required (nor possible with the PlugKey).

 

Got to rehearsal and struggled the whole time with issues I hadn"t thought of, or didn"t experience while I was testing: PlugKey kept 'disconnecting'; Module wouldn"t recognize the expression pedal; VB3m audio would be all distorted and static-y when switching back from playing Module; iPad battery drain was faster than I anticipated; the 5-lb A-49 kept sliding around on the stand; etc. Nobody else was aware, but I was unplugging/replugging cords, stopping/restarting apps, resetting config parameters, untangling bitty cord snarls â the entire time. It was incredibly distracting, and I didn"t play as well as I knew I was capable of.

 

I get it; we all go thru some pains when breaking in a new rig. But none of the things I mentioned are things I can fix (save duct-taping the controller down), and I don"t really want to try it again. I just bought a Mojo Desktop module for use with my Legend '70s piano (a pairing which works fantastically, BTW), so I got home and immediately ordered a Juno-DS 61. That board gives me a nice (heavier) controller for the Mojo and all the synth stuff I need â and it"s hardware. The iPad experiment was a necessary one for me to try, but it did nothing to convince me that it was simpler to setup, or was just as reliable.

 

Yah, I"m old and set in my ways. Gimme hardware, please.

 

How do you find the Legend 70s? I was weighing it up vs. the Nord Grand.

[AnotherScott]

I was convinced I could do it with just a Roland A-49 controller (one of the few midsize controllers that has both sustain and expression pedal inputs), Nektar NP-1 and Yamaha FC7 pedals, an iPad with Korg Module and VB3m, and a Korg PlugKey midi interface. No AC required (nor possible with the PlugKey).

 

Got to rehearsal and struggled the whole time with issues I hadn"t thought of, or didn"t experience while I was testing: PlugKey kept 'disconnecting'; Module wouldn"t recognize the expression pedal; VB3m audio would be all distorted and static-y when switching back from playing Module; iPad battery drain was faster than I anticipate

Yes, AC is possible with the PlugKey, it has a power port (micro USB) which passes power and charges your iPad, that's one of the best things about it. But I don't understand the role of the PlugKey here. Its presence implies you were connecting to the A49 via its 5-pin MIDI Out, but you also said no AC, which implies you were connecting the A49 to the iPad via USB (to power it). Were you using the A49's USB conection and MIDI connection simultaneously? How did you connect the A49's USB connection and the PlugKey to the iPad simultaneously? Maybe it's because I just woke up, but none of this is making sense to me. But I would not be surprised if all of your problems resulted from insufficient power.

 

so I got home and immediately ordered a Juno-DS 61.

 

If I was looking for the smallest/lightest possible 61 I thought I could comfortably get through a gig on, the DS61 would be the one (and it runs on batteries too, if need be). The Kross is tempting in being smaller/lighter, and also stronger as an iPad controller by virtue of being able to set up combis that mix internal and external sounds while sending different Program Changes on different channels, so I could see that one too. But if it's my only board, I would value two advantages of the DS over the Kross... it's ability to switch sounds without cutting off previously played held/decaying notes (though you may have to manage your fx settings accordingly)... and its ability to split the keys into two sounds and immediately/automatically give you volume, octave, and patch change ability for each of your hands' sounds independently, giving you almost "2-board functionality" in a single board. Though if I was strictly playing one sound at a time, and could get by with 49 keys (as you apparently could here), I'd look at the AX-Edge, which is even lighter (though needs a bigger case, so that might be a wash), is stronger on the MIDI front, has aftertouch, and lets me actually get out and play it as a keytar if I want to. In fact, if the band is okay with the keytar approach, this makes travel schleppage and stage setup even easier, because you don't even have to bring a keyboard stand!

[confidence]

Mac or PC, tanking during gig is a rare occurrence. But you have to take precautions. Keep the machine clean - so the OS and your performance software isn"t susceptible to other crap that gets into the system. Having a unique login for performance separate from whatever else you use the machine for is a good idea. And not fiddling with OS updates until software and hardware developers have tested that their stuff is working with the latest version. A power conditioner to make sure you"re aware of unreliable or inadequate voltage and having a spare battery are all good ideas. And if you have a laptop running great and retire it. Maybe keep it around as a backup on important gigs where a fail is unacceptable. Using stage pianos and synths as controllers is always a good idea so you can just fader up over to your bread and butter sounds.

 

This is all good advice, but in a sense it just creates a new problem while addressing the old one. That is, the sheer amount of time, headache and hassle involved in keeping a laptop in a reliable gig worthy state.

 

For me, this is the thing that actually turned me away from using them, not having them fall over which actually only happened to me once (not in a gig but in an audition, so also with bad results).

 

Working often in unpredictable conditions for crappy pay with a lot of "meta-work" (travelling, lugging gear etc.) around the actual work, we have to be realistic about additional time and work commitment looking after the gear. I can just pick up a keyboard, take it to the gig and it works, same as it did at home. A module slightly less so, in that I have to have thought about the MIDI relationship between master keyboard and module, but still with near-100% ease once I've done that. But a laptop I have to be constantly thinking about OS updates, driver updates, software settings, attending to the question of whether every little change might have fatal consequences.

 

No doubt that computers can provide superior sound results, due to the much greater memory and processing available. So it's great if you're up for it. But for me, nah.

[AnotherScott]

But a laptop I have to be constantly thinking about OS updates, driver updates, software settings, attending to the question of whether every little change might have fatal consequences.

I think this problem largely comes out of a desire to save money by using the laptop you already have. If instead you bought a laptop to dedicate it to music performance (looking at it the same way you'd look at the purchase of the keyboard alternative), you could set it up and, once you get it working, resist the temptation to keep adding new things and tinkering. Never let it connect to the internet. Just leave it alone, never update it, and then, just like your keyboard, it will be just the same at the next gig as it was at the last one. The problems of updates etc. don't happen by themselves, players are making them happen. One caveat though... this means avoiding anything cloud-based or that has to periodically "phone home" to re-authorize itself. (As an alternative to the expense of buying a new laptop for this, one could also possibly repurpose an existing one if you go to buy a new one out of a desire to upgrade your main computer, assuming your older one still has sufficient capabilities to run what you'd need it to run.)

[ElmerJFudd]

Mac or PC, tanking during gig is a rare occurrence. But you have to take precautions. Keep the machine clean - so the OS and your performance software isn"t susceptible to other crap that gets into the system. Having a unique login for performance separate from whatever else you use the machine for is a good idea. And not fiddling with OS updates until software and hardware developers have tested that their stuff is working with the latest version. A power conditioner to make sure you"re aware of unreliable or inadequate voltage and having a spare battery are all good ideas. And if you have a laptop running great and retire it. Maybe keep it around as a backup on important gigs where a fail is unacceptable. Using stage pianos and synths as controllers is always a good idea so you can just fader up over to your bread and butter sounds.

 

This is all good advice, but in a sense it just creates a new problem while addressing the old one. That is, the sheer amount of time, headache and hassle involved in keeping a laptop in a reliable gig worthy state.

 

For me, this is the thing that actually turned me away from using them, not having them fall over which actually only happened to me once (not in a gig but in an audition, so also with bad results).

 

Working often in unpredictable conditions for crappy pay with a lot of "meta-work" (travelling, lugging gear etc.) around the actual work, we have to be realistic about additional time and work commitment looking after the gear. I can just pick up a keyboard, take it to the gig and it works, same as it did at home. A module slightly less so, in that I have to have thought about the MIDI relationship between master keyboard and module, but still with near-100% ease once I've done that. But a laptop I have to be constantly thinking about OS updates, driver updates, software settings, attending to the question of whether every little change might have fatal consequences.

 

No doubt that computers can provide superior sound results, due to the much greater memory and processing available. So it's great if you're up for it. But for me, nah.

 

On the other hand, there is a convenience gain in using software like MainStage or Cantabile in learning one interface to develop all patches, splits, layers, controllers, sample hits, routing, FX, etc. etc. saving them as songs in a setlist and recalling them by name in order. That is the attraction. Sounds wise - eh, some software sounds are equal to, lesser or better than what you may have on your hardware keyboards. I don't always find the timbres a gain from say a Kronos or a Montage. If you are going cheap soundless controllers, or even inexpensive lightweight stage pianos - yeah the software sounds are also what pulls you in.

[Reezekeys]

This is all good advice, but in a sense it just creates a new problem while addressing the old one. That is, the sheer amount of time, headache and hassle involved in keeping a laptop in a reliable gig worthy state..

What problem? I show up at a gig, boot the computer, load my setup, plug in a few cables and play. Yes, a few more steps than putting a keyboard on a stand and turning it on. "Keeping" a laptop in a reliable gig worthy state? I have a separate partition with it's own, older (Mojave) MacOS system with only the music apps and extensions needed. It's been reliable and gig worthy with little to no effort.

No doubt that computers can provide superior sound results, due to the much greater memory and processing available. So it's great if you're up for it. But for me, nah.

Yea it's that minor attribute of "superior sound results" that got me into using a laptop 20 years ago - guilty as charged! I'll also admit there's a side of me that enjoys programming and gets satisfaction in configuring a software setup that serves my music-making.

[confidence]

Yesterday I had my first rehearsal for a Nashville-ish country show where my role is 'keys' (i.e. everything except AP). After spending a week checking out all the gear and connections, I was convinced I could do it with just a Roland A-49 controller (one of the few midsize controllers that has both sustain and expression pedal inputs), Nektar NP-1 and Yamaha FC7 pedals, an iPad with Korg Module and VB3m, and a Korg PlugKey midi interface. No AC required (nor possible with the PlugKey).

 

Got to rehearsal and struggled the whole time with issues I hadn"t thought of, or didn"t experience while I was testing: PlugKey kept 'disconnecting'; Module wouldn"t recognize the expression pedal; VB3m audio would be all distorted and static-y when switching back from playing Module; iPad battery drain was faster than I anticipated; the 5-lb A-49 kept sliding around on the stand; etc. Nobody else was aware, but I was unplugging/replugging cords, stopping/restarting apps, resetting config parameters, untangling bitty cord snarls â the entire time. It was incredibly distracting, and I didn"t play as well as I knew I was capable of.

 

Yeah that's what I was talking about - that vague feeling of uncertainty in the back of your mind that takes mental energy away from the playing. It's a cost, even when the setup works. Whether it's a cost worth paying is of course up to the individual, and can only be determined in relation to all relevant factors.

[confidence]

But a laptop I have to be constantly thinking about OS updates, driver updates, software settings, attending to the question of whether every little change might have fatal consequences.

I think this problem largely comes out of a desire to save money by using the laptop you already have. If instead you bought a laptop to dedicate it to music performance (looking at it the same way you'd look at the purchase of the keyboard alternative), you could set it up and, once you get it working, resist the temptation to keep adding new things and tinkering. Never let it connect to the internet. Just leave it alone, never update it, and then, just like your keyboard, it will be just the same at the next gig as it was at the last one. The problems of updates etc. don't happen by themselves, players are making them happen. One caveat though... this means avoiding anything cloud-based or that has to periodically "phone home" to re-authorize itself. (As an alternative to the expense of buying a new laptop for this, one could also possibly repurpose an existing one if you go to buy a new one out of a desire to upgrade your main computer, assuming your older one still has sufficient capabilities to run what you'd need it to run.)

 

That's all very well in theory and it's pretty much what I did, and yes it certainly helps. It's never 100% thought. Simply using the software in various ways has an effect over time on its interaction with the OS. Drivers do wierd shit and require reinstallation. I was on Windows (though highly customised and bolted down) which may have been part of the problem. Maybe a mac rig would be better, but from people I know who have done it even that isn't 100%.

 

I'm certainly not dead against the idea, so don't want to offend anyone. I was only making the point that there are factors to consider beyond the effects of fatal performance collapse, which (a) is rare, as people have said, with a well specced and looked after system, and (b) can happen with hardware too, anyway. Computers are "higher maintenance" than hardware, that's all.

 

I keep thinking one day I'll get around to reintroducing a computer element as an "extra & optional" set of sounds that I can use just for the things they really excel in, while having alternatives on hand in the keys themselves to cover all bases as required. A bit of programming and planning for redundancy required, but that seem to me the best of both worlds.

[Outkaster]

It always amazes me there is more talk about clones than the real thing. A Leslie and a real Hammond have a lot of facets. I think it helps to know the actual instruments. There will always be guys that carry the real thing.

There's also more talk here about digital pianos than actual grand pianos. ;-) And Rhodes simulations than real Rhodes, etc.

 

Not so amazing, really. Sure, there are people carrying the real thing. But relatively few people are interested in bringing 400-500 pounds of Hammond+Leslie to a gig anymore.

 

I understand that I just think it helps to get people to have a good perspective on it that's all I am saying.

[LX88]

I have the Mojo module and strangely I haven't seen much discussion on it. I got it because I have collected a bunch of clonewheels over the years......Legend live single manual, HX3 module and Numa 1.

 

Quite honestly I am having a hell of a time editing the Mojo module. As with the HX3 there are a bunch of parameters I don't understand.

 

The Mojo module is to my knowledge the only Crumar with a dedicated editing screen. Wifi editing... no thank you please.Can control percussion volume from the screen. A must have and a reason why I like Legend Live.

 

I still really like the Numa 1. It got roasted on this forum and I could never figure out why. The CV is accurate and lively and the leslie sim has more clarity than most of what I have. For some reason leslie sims affect percussion and the Numa 1 less so.

 

I do like using different controllers than the standard Fatar TP something or other.

 

The Mojo is good for jazz CV sound . I cant seem to get the sim to lose all of that character of the default leslie sim. I just want a subtle spin.

 

The Mojo module has excellent overdrive.

 

Oh one more. Casio WK 3000. Has drawbar organ and the drawbar tone is quite good on lower drawbar settings. The stereo phaser is my slow leslie. I really like it.

[Brad Kaenel]

I was convinced I could do it with just a Roland A-49 controller (one of the few midsize controllers that has both sustain and expression pedal inputs), Nektar NP-1 and Yamaha FC7 pedals, an iPad with Korg Module and VB3m, and a Korg PlugKey midi interface. No AC required (nor possible with the PlugKey).

 

Got to rehearsal and struggled the whole time with issues I hadn"t thought of, or didn"t experience while I was testing: PlugKey kept 'disconnecting'; Module wouldn"t recognize the expression pedal; VB3m audio would be all distorted and static-y when switching back from playing Module; iPad battery drain was faster than I anticipate

Yes, AC is possible with the PlugKey, it has a power port (micro USB) which passes power and charges your iPad, that's one of the best things about it. But I don't understand the role of the PlugKey here. Its presence implies you were connecting to the A49 via its 5-pin MIDI Out, but you also said no AC, which implies you were connecting the A49 to the iPad via USB (to power it). Were you using the A49's USB conection and MIDI connection simultaneously? How did you connect the A49's USB connection and the PlugKey to the iPad simultaneously? Maybe it's because I just woke up, but none of this is making sense to me. But I would not be surprised if all of your problems resulted from insufficient power.

 

Scott, even half-asleep, you're still sharper than me. You're absolutely correct -- there *is* a micro-USB power port on the PlugKey and I totally overlooked it. Yes, I was using both the A-49's ports: the USB connected to a small "backup" battery pack for power, and the MIDI connected to the PlugKey -- so both the controller and the iPad were just running on batteries. I considered a setup that used the Camera Connection Kit between the A-49 and the iPad, instead of the PlugKey, but the original CCK I have doesn't provide power back to the connected device so there's no way to power the controller (at least, not one I can think of ) when connected to an iPad, rather than a full-blown laptop. If I was going this route, I think I'd have to buy the USB 3 version of the CCK with the power connector, in order to juice both the iPad and the connected device.

 

so I got home and immediately ordered a Juno-DS 61.

 

If I was looking for the smallest/lightest possible 61 I thought I could comfortably get through a gig on, the DS61 would be the one (and it runs on batteries too, if need be). The Kross is tempting in being smaller/lighter, and also stronger as an iPad controller by virtue of being able to set up combis that mix internal and external sounds while sending different Program Changes on different channels, so I could see that one too. But if it's my only board, I would value two advantages of the DS over the Kross... it's ability to switch sounds without cutting off previously played held/decaying notes (though you may have to manage your fx settings accordingly)... and its ability to split the keys into two sounds and immediately/automatically give you volume, octave, and patch change ability for each of your hands' sounds independently, giving you almost "2-board functionality" in a single board. Though if I was strictly playing one sound at a time, and could get by with 49 keys (as you apparently could here), I'd look at the AX-Edge, which is even lighter (though needs a bigger case, so that might be a wash), is stronger on the MIDI front, has aftertouch, and lets me actually get out and play it as a keytar if I want to. In fact, if the band is okay with the keytar approach, this makes travel schleppage and stage setup even easier, because you don't even have to bring a keyboard stand!

 

Great idea about the AX, though I'm certainly *not* one of those guys that can make a keytar look cool; and I would probably struggle to control VB3 on that board if it was shouldered. I'm not an "up-front-er" on this gig; happy to just sit on the backline and provide some sweetening. I'll report back on the DS61 / Mojo Desktop alternative.

[Brad Kaenel]

Yesterday I had my first rehearsal for a Nashville-ish country show where my role is 'keys' (i.e. everything except AP). After spending a week checking out all the gear and connections, I was convinced I could do it with just a Roland A-49 controller (one of the few midsize controllers that has both sustain and expression pedal inputs), Nektar NP-1 and Yamaha FC7 pedals, an iPad with Korg Module and VB3m, and a Korg PlugKey midi interface. No AC required (nor possible with the PlugKey).

 

Got to rehearsal and struggled the whole time with issues I hadn"t thought of, or didn"t experience while I was testing: PlugKey kept 'disconnecting'; Module wouldn"t recognize the expression pedal; VB3m audio would be all distorted and static-y when switching back from playing Module; iPad battery drain was faster than I anticipated; the 5-lb A-49 kept sliding around on the stand; etc. Nobody else was aware, but I was unplugging/replugging cords, stopping/restarting apps, resetting config parameters, untangling bitty cord snarls â the entire time. It was incredibly distracting, and I didn"t play as well as I knew I was capable of.

 

I get it; we all go thru some pains when breaking in a new rig. But none of the things I mentioned are things I can fix (save duct-taping the controller down), and I don"t really want to try it again. I just bought a Mojo Desktop module for use with my Legend '70s piano (a pairing which works fantastically, BTW), so I got home and immediately ordered a Juno-DS 61. That board gives me a nice (heavier) controller for the Mojo and all the synth stuff I need â and it"s hardware. The iPad experiment was a necessary one for me to try, but it did nothing to convince me that it was simpler to setup, or was just as reliable.

 

Yah, I"m old and set in my ways. Gimme hardware, please.

 

How do you find the Legend 70s? I was weighing it up vs. the Nord Grand.

 

Check this thread: Vicount Legends '70 - Nord Grand killer ?

 

I have the Compact 73 version, which doesn't have a high-end weighted action (it's a new 3-sensor TP100) like you find in the NG; you need the Artist or Artist-W ("Wood") to get that. See "Piano Man Chuck" videos, also in that thread. IINM, the NG uses a Kawai-sourced action; the Legend 70s probably uses one of the Fatar TP/Wood actions.

[Stokely]

the MIDI implementation on the MODX is weirdly limited - the Achilles heel, really.

The MIDI implementation as a sound source has unexpected limitations, but as a controller, the MODX is actually excellent at letting you integrate internal and external sounds, better than most.

 

Yep, seems pretty flexible. I'm only using an ipad for organ at gigs, but I tested out a four-zone performance with internal sounds and three different ipad apps playing across the keyboard.

 

One limitation, not a show-stopper for me: doesn't seem like you can use the MODX as a sound source from another keyboard (via midi plug) at the same time as using USB. It looked to be a toggle. I was thinking I might try to trigger piano from my Summit while the MODX itself was playing the organ from the IPAD! Not too bummed, as that's getting a bit more finicky than I like to get.

 

Interested in the 3rd party stuff mentioned by Aynsley Green. I knew about organimation and before I started using the ipad was considering getting it.

[Aynsley Green]

the MIDI implementation on the MODX is weirdly limited - the Achilles heel, really.

The MIDI implementation as a sound source has unexpected limitations, but as a controller, the MODX is actually excellent at letting you integrate internal and external sounds, better than most.

 

Yep, seems pretty flexible. I'm only using an ipad for organ at gigs, but I tested out a four-zone performance with internal sounds and three different ipad apps playing across the keyboard.

 

One limitation, not a show-stopper for me: doesn't seem like you can use the MODX as a sound source from another keyboard (via midi plug) at the same time as using USB. It looked to be a toggle. I was thinking I might try to trigger piano from my Summit while the MODX itself was playing the organ from the IPAD! Not too bummed, as that's getting a bit more finicky than I like to get.

 

Interested in the 3rd party stuff mentioned by Aynsley Green. I knew about organimation and before I started using the ipad was considering getting it.

 

Some recent discussion on Montage/MODX libraries going on over at this thread:

https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/3096731#Post3096731

[Aynsley Green]

Check this thread: Vicount Legends '70 - Nord Grand killer ?

 

I have the Compact 73 version, which doesn't have a high-end weighted action (it's a new 3-sensor TP100) like you find in the NG; you need the Artist or Artist-W ("Wood") to get that. See "Piano Man Chuck" videos, also in that thread. IINM, the NG uses a Kawai-sourced action; the Legend 70s probably uses one of the Fatar TP/Wood actions.

 

Arggghhh, that spongey Fatar TP100 action, same as the Nord Stage. Deal-breaker for me. I've tried the Nord Grand and the Nord Stage side-by-side in the shop, the Kawai action makes a big difference. Dang, guess I have no choice.

[stoken6]

Arggghhh, that spongey Fatar TP100 action, same as the Nord Stage.

Same as the Stage 76. The Stage 88 has a "proper" TP/40 action, which I like (same as current Nord Piano).

 

Cheers, Mike.

[brenner13]

I have the Mojo module and strangely I haven't seen much discussion on it. I got it because I have collected a bunch of clonewheels over the years......Legend live single manual, HX3 module and Numa 1.

 

Quite honestly I am having a hell of a time editing the Mojo module. As with the HX3 there are a bunch of parameters I don't understand.

 

The Mojo module is to my knowledge the only Crumar with a dedicated editing screen. Wifi editing... no thank you please.Can control percussion volume from the screen. A must have and a reason why I like Legend Live.

 

I still really like the Numa 1. It got roasted on this forum and I could never figure out why. The CV is accurate and lively and the leslie sim has more clarity than most of what I have. For some reason leslie sims affect percussion and the Numa 1 less so.

 

I do like using different controllers than the standard Fatar TP something or other.

 

The Mojo is good for jazz CV sound . I cant seem to get the sim to lose all of that character of the default leslie sim. I just want a subtle spin.

 

The Mojo module has excellent overdrive.

 

Oh one more. Casio WK 3000. Has drawbar organ and the drawbar tone is quite good on lower drawbar settings. The stereo phaser is my slow leslie. I really like it.

 

Yep, I can relate. I"ve been trying to replace my VR-09 with something better for about five years. Actually since getting a 'new" replacement pitch paddle (with the help from a few on this forum), I"ve revisited the sounds and presets I made for the bands from 8 years ago; they are really danged good! And the thing is just so dern easy and fast to get around with at gigs. And super lightweight, too. Just got some new strap locks...I think at 12 lbs, the VR-09 on battery power and wireless audio just might make a pretty powerful mobile rig....HA!

Just have to ignore all the haters and gear snobs and use the great gear ya like and that works for the situation.

[Brad Kaenel]

Arggghhh, that spongey Fatar TP100 action, same as the Nord Stage.

...The Stage 88 has a "proper" TP/40 action, which I like (same as current Nord Piano).

 

Cheers, Mike.

 

As do the Legend70s 88-note versions ("Artist" or "Artist-W").