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Should the Montage go?


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Hi guys,

 

This is a mix of me seeking guidance but also trying to understand if I"m missing somethingâ¦

 

I"ve bough my Montage 12 months ago. Meanwhile I"ve also got a Novation Summit (*), which blew all my expectationsâ¦. All on-hands controls, build quality and of course, clear and phat sounding made me never regret the investment.

 

Now looking to my boards, and having played the Montage (I'm really not very comfortable with its program architecture) I wonder why I can"t connect with the Montage anymore (I mean sound wiseâ¦, I love the keybeds and looks)⦠don"t know if there are secrets under its menus or if my purchase was purely GAS, now gone after I have the summit⦠Maybe if I invest in the Performance Editor Software (John Melas) I could deep dive in it and find the loveâ¦.

 

(*) and a Roland FA-06â¦

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Summit is a semi-VA synthesizer.

 

What are you trying to achieve musically?

That's the million dollar question.

 

IMO, the Montage is worth keeping if it's mainly covering bread and butter sounds (AP, EP, clav, organ, etc.)

 

However, if the OP has another DP (digital piano) of some kind, there could be some redundancy between the Montage and Summit from a synth perspective.

 

I'm not even ready to touch the Roland FA-06 lob until we know more. :laugh::cool:

PD

 

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy"

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I agree with ProfD that "bread and butter" is part of the arsenal. But if the OP is craving the immediacy of a Summit, I'm wondering whether a different board might be appropriate. Yamaha CP88 springs to mind - although the sound palette is a little restricted. Secondhand S90XS/S70XS?

 

Cheers, Mike.

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Ironically I'm (a bit) the other way around. I had the Modx already, and added a Summit to it for my new live rig, along with an ipad to supply b3 organ via b3x.

 

What I'm finding is that for some songs that I'm wanting the use the Summit on, particular synth strings and pads, the Modx keeps up very well. The FM pads in particular really shine. That said, I don't think it keeps up with poly synth or lead sounds. In neither case am I really chasing "avante garde" experimental stuff (as 95% of the Summit presets are) so that's good to keep in mind.

 

Programming wise, yes the summit is way more fun and immediate. But then it is much simpler as far as overall capabilities. I've got the Modx doing patches that have it's own sounds split with ipad ones, and I could even have some zones to trigger the summit if I wanted to. Also, the sounds from all three are being combined in the Modx (on a trial basis right now) and if that works I won't need a submixer.

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Summit is a semi-VA synthesizer.

 

Montage is digital but does a whole lot more than that.

 

What are you trying to achieve musically?

 

well, I'm not in a band, kind'a hobbist here..., but trying to implement a more "minimalist" setup, which currently consists of Triton Extreme, JD-900, Yamaha CP33, Kurzweil K2661, DW-8000, Roland FA-06, Montage 6 and the SUmmit (not considering many VSTs...). I've recently sold my DX-7 and a JV-1080 (as roland's patches are already taken by the FA, and FM by the Montage).

 

My struggle with the Montage is how to increase my ability to edit sounds and to have a more organic way to handle its synthesis (as I've mention I have with the Summit)... As I have decades of proggramming Roland's and Korgs I think I'm in a steep learning curve. I really think I'm missing something, maybe a little disapointed by it's factory patches...

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...That said, I don't think it keeps up with poly synth or lead sounds.

Agreed. Polysynth and leads are not among my immediate thoughts regarding the Montage or MODX, although some savvy programmers probably could convince me otherwise.

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing."

- George Bernard Shaw

 

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The Montage's biggest strength amongst your boards would probably be its acoustic instrument sounds, but if they're not doing it for you (or are not important to you), then maybe it's not a good fit. (Well, it also has all the motion control stuff, which could be of interest.)

 

Off the top of my head, this is an approach I might consider: For a "Montage-style" board with a more immediate interface, consider a Roland Fantom... which could conceivably replace your Montage AND your FA. You're losing the FM, though, so maybe add a Korg OpSix. Alternatively, you might replace the Montage with a Kronos/Nautilus which maintains the FM, but then you probably end up keeping the FA so your total number of boards stays the same; and if you didn't find programming the Montage to be so inviting, I'm not sure you'll feel that much better about a Kronos/Nautilus... though Kronos/Nautilus does at least have the virtue of maintaining many architectural similarities with the Triton Extreme that you're already familiar with.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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For me, Fantom programming is more intuitive than Montage, Kronos and friendlier for me than Kurzweil VAST. I think if you know you're way around the FA-06, you will get the major features of Fantom quickly. Good UI there. I think Montage sounds great but I don't really know how to operate one in detail.

Yamaha U1 Upright, Roland Fantom 8, Nord Stage 4 HA73, Nord Wave 2, Korg Nautilus 73, Viscount Legend Live, Lots of Mainstage/VST Libraries

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For me, Fantom programming is more intuitive than Montage, Kronos and friendlier for me than Kurzweil VAST. I think if you know you're way around the FA-06, you will get the major features of Fantom quickly. Good UI there. I think Montage sounds great but I don't really know how to operate one in detail.

 

I think Roland gets that people today want simple, they aren't willing to tackle steep learning curves. Montage and Kronos to really take advantage of them require a time commitment. Look at some of the new boards and trend is less having to learn menus and more knobs in your face. There are pro's and con's to that, but you get my point people want quick and simple like the smartdevice shoved into their pockets. Give it a few years and when someone wants a new sound and there is no preset, they'll "call the guy" to come over.

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I agree with Scott in the OP considering a Fantom and Kronos/Nautilus to replace the Montage and existing Roland and Korg boxes. It will thin the herd and keep FM flavor in the rig. Learning how to speak Yamaha (programming) is not for the faint of heart.:cool:

PD

 

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy"

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I see hardly any overlap between a Summit and a Montage.

 

This is like having a pickup truck that sits in the garage because you brought home a sports car.

There"s going to be days that the sports car is useless for what you have to get done.

Dangit! Why did I sell that pickup!

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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Ironically I'm (a bit) the other way around. I had the Modx already, and added a Summit to it for my new live rig, along with an ipad to supply b3 organ via b3x.

 

What I'm finding is that for some songs that I'm wanting the use the Summit on, particular synth strings and pads, the Modx keeps up very well. The FM pads in particular really shine. That said, I don't think it keeps up with poly synth or lead sounds. In neither case am I really chasing "avante garde" experimental stuff (as 95% of the Summit presets are) so that's good to keep in mind.

 

Programming wise, yes the summit is way more fun and immediate. But then it is much simpler as far as overall capabilities. I've got the Modx doing patches that have it's own sounds split with ipad ones, and I could even have some zones to trigger the summit if I wanted to. Also, the sounds from all three are being combined in the Modx (on a trial basis right now) and if that works I won't need a submixer.

 

 

This is pretty much my situation. I owned the MODX7 first then bought a Summit. I took it to one gig after spending a handful of hours getting it set up for particular songs, but there wasn't one song the Summit did better than the MODX sound-wise. I'll be keeping the Summit as a great synth to learn but doubt it'll even go to another gig.

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Yikes I'm hoping that isn't the case after my first gig with it, which is this Saturday!

 

As I mentioned, I think the Summit will shine on some of the songs we do, any of them that use big fat poly synths especially. The summit's factory patches don't come with a ton of those, but I've found some in the free banks and made some as well. As an aside, Novation's browser-based librarian software is fantastic value added. I find it very easy to use and it takes all the hassle and worry about overwriting patches away.

 

Then again, I now am faced with going mono after a couple years of stereo due to a change in main mixer....boy that takes some of the richness out of my patches and levels the field. Ugh. Using one of my mixers and being creative, I could either send stereo to FOH and monitor mono; or monitor stereo and send mon to FOH (of the two this is probably what I'd do). I like to monitor exactly what goes to FOH though. Sucks.

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Yikes I'm hoping that isn't the case after my first gig with it, which is this Saturday!

 

Oh I'm sure it'll go great - i just need to spend time getting some better patches happening :thu:

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If you haven't already, go through the free banks available on the Novation browser (which also easily manages firmware updates I found.)

 

Most are "experimental" type stuff--meaning not very useful for a cover band!--but there are some gems in there. You don't need to back up the factory banks, I found out after I'd done just that--they've got them in the browser. So far I've been using bank D as my personal "bread and butter" bank. Of the patches I didn't program (most), I did end up turning down the fx on almost all of them. I've found that just gets in the way in live shows. Same goes for the Modx as well and most other keyboards I've owned with fx on them.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Spent the weekend dedicated to know more about the Montage programingâ¦, definitely a beast for pads and FM characteristic sounds⦠love the keybed and (for now) I`m keeping it. Will get a JD-Xa in July (Godâ¦, import to Brazil got messed-up with Covid) and will redefine my home rig.

Meanwhile I`ll keep looking for good sounds to purchase (I know easysoundsshop.de has a few) focusing on pads and cinematic patches.

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Don't sleep on the libraries for the Montage/MODX, some crazy stuff out there, that turns it into a whole new keyboard!

 

https://easysoundsshop.de/

 

https://www.purgatorycreek.com/

Aynsley Green Trio - Caravan

Upper: Sequential OB6 or Roland Fantom 06

Lower: Nord Stage 4 Compact or Yamaha YC88

Sometimes: Hammond SK2, Roland System 8, Roland SH2, Roland SE-02, Roland JX-08, Korg Prologue 16

 

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I"m using EasySounds Analog Xperience in my MODX....really fills the gap in the factory sounds.

I"ll have to check out the Purgatory stuff.

 

I bought the MODX to fill in the gaps with the Nord Electro...but after getting Purgatory Creek, I sold the Nord, the EPs are about as good! Yamaha should hire the guy.

 

Unfortunately only Analog Xperience, Purgatory Creek and Montage Expanded will fit at once on the MODX, dang. There are workarounds, you can pick and choose patches and their required samples from libraries using the John Melos Library Editor, which I haven't figured out how to do yet. Or you can leave a tiny USB drive hooked in that is pretty much flush with the keyboard, meaning you can load sounds off and on as needed - takes about 15 minutes to load, not impossible. I have a 'piano' backup file and a 'synth' backup file.

 

Some more essential libraries, and they're free!

--------------

Montage Expanded (some really useful patches in here, including all the classic DX7 factory patches!):

https://yamahasynth.com/ask-a-question/montage-expanded

 

CS-80 (a mixed bag):

https://shop.usa.yamaha.com/en/cs80-montage.html

 

OB6 (awesome):

Aynsley Green Trio - Caravan

Upper: Sequential OB6 or Roland Fantom 06

Lower: Nord Stage 4 Compact or Yamaha YC88

Sometimes: Hammond SK2, Roland System 8, Roland SH2, Roland SE-02, Roland JX-08, Korg Prologue 16

 

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Some more essential Montage/MODX libraries (again, the only problem is fitting all of them on board at the same time. C'mon Yamaha, Montage X with more storage!)

-----------

Organimation - fixes the big weakness, the Hammond:

https://ksounds.com/product/organimation-tonewheel-organ-sounds-yamaha-montage/

 

Epic Grand - a nice alternative to the factory piano sound, but expensive.

https://ksounds.com/product/epic-grand-piano-sample-library-yamaha-montage/

 

'Red' Pianos - sampled Nord pianos for your MODX. Doesn't have the same magic as a Nord, but nice to have! Feels kind of illegal.

https://itb-music.online/

Aynsley Green Trio - Caravan

Upper: Sequential OB6 or Roland Fantom 06

Lower: Nord Stage 4 Compact or Yamaha YC88

Sometimes: Hammond SK2, Roland System 8, Roland SH2, Roland SE-02, Roland JX-08, Korg Prologue 16

 

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