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Two Keyboard Rig - Same or different brands


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I'm considering whether to replace my PX5S with a different bottom board to my YC61. I see the MSRP was just reduced for the CP73. There's a lot of duplication though but I do see some people here have two keyboard rigs with the same brand...even a couple of times the exact same keyboard! My inclination is the different brands are better for sound variety...but the simplicity of matched architecture is appealing with a same brand set-up. What does everyone think?
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I have an answer that works for me, but let me get some background from you.

 

What is the reason for wanting to replace the PX5S as your 88 note piano under the YC61? (don't worry, I am not here to question you at all about your motive, it just helps me in which direction I answer you.)

 

I've played several boards underneath my YC61: PX5S PX-S300, Roland A-88MKX2, Yamaha MODX8...and still own all those... just depends on my needs and whim at the time.

David

Gig Rig:Casio Privia PX-5S | Yamaha MODX+ 6 | MacBook Pro 14" M1| Mainstage

 

 

 

 

 

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Moving the post I originally left in the other thread... and similar to what David said...

 

I guess my first question would be, in what way is the PX-5S falling short for you? It does have some nice benefits as a YC61 complement... lightweight at 24 lbs, shallow control surface lets you keep your two sets of keys close to each other and also minimize footprint, decent hammer action, good MIDI functionality also making it easy to use to selectively trigger the piano/EP sounds in your YC... not a bad choice at all. If it's different sounds you're after, as you alluded to in your comment about duplication, the sounds in the CP73 are not so different from what you have available in the YC, outside of piano... though the CP's pianos could still be a perfectly good reason to want to go that way. Nord is always a strong choice for piano, but something with a non-TP100 hammer action is going to be a bit heavy and a bit pricey. Kawai might be another good option, from the piano perspective. But maybe your second-board focus involves other priorities...?

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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I definitely lean towards having two different keyboard/manufacturers. The two obvious reasons are a) diversity of sounds and b) different keybeds (i.e. weighted and un-weighted.) Less obvious and just as important to me: I have one keyboard that is very tactile and simple to use for on the fly (Stage 3) and one that is very deep (Kronos 2) that can cover as complicateded setups for particular songs (e.g. 8 splits with internal/external controllers, etc.) This gives me the range of things I need for both on-the-fly and heavily pre-programmed situations.

Yamaha CK88, Arturia Keylab 61 MkII, Moog Sub 37, Yamaha U1 Upright, Casio CT-S500, Mac Logic/Mainstage, iPad Camelot, Spacestation V.3, QSC K10.2, JBL EON One Compact

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I don't think there's an answer to this other than to say that some manufacturers are stronger in particular areas --- I mean, Kawai makes great pianos, but not organs. Crumar is known for organs but not acoustic pianos. Maybe they make a great match for you.

 

In the meantime, I've done plenty of pairing within the same manufacturer all the time --- Roland Jupiter X over a Fantom. In my current reggae band I play a Nord Wave 2 over a Nord Stage Compact and together that's exactly what I want the ease of being able to do.

 

One thing I have no shortage of is sounds. Good grief, do I have hundreds of thousands of sounds on every platform from keyboards, to iPads to a terabyte of plugins. For what I do, there's not a lot of noises I can't make with a laptop, Fantom, Kawai piano, dedicated clonewheel or a couple of Nords. I just need to pick two keyboards for any band project that will cover all my bases somewhere. Either dial in what I'm trying to do or just sample it from somewhere else.

Yamaha U1 Upright, Roland Fantom 8, Nord Stage 4 HA73, Nord Wave 2, Korg Nautilus 73, Viscount Legend Live, Lots of Mainstage/VST Libraries

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There is no right answer here. It kind of depends why you want to use two keyboards in the first place. It might be that two different keyboards provide a wider sound palette and that is your true reason. For me it has always been for redundancy purposes in case of keyboard failure. For years I used the same brand keyboards. If one went down then the other could get me through the gig. Recently I've moved away from this thinking and I now have an exposure because I'm using the PC3 and an M-Audio controller that runs my Gemini module. Because of the incompatibility between the two I now carry my Equinox as a backup, so I'm carrying three keyboards to the gig but only using two. So for me I liked the idea of having two similar keyboards; it works if in fact you can get through a gig with either one in case of a breakdown.

57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn

Delaware Dave

Exit93band

 

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Love the PX5S...but my largest issue is programming complexity...I spend a lot of time doing that when it first came out and enjoyed it...but now, as I get older, it's more of a drag...I seem to be valuing simplicity more. Also, I think the sounds in the PX are, in some cases, not the best...although the synth sounds you can create with hex layers are still pretty amazing. The MIDI implementation is very flexible on the PX, again with some menu diving, but I've been integrating Cantabile into my set-up so I can use some soft synths and I plan to also use Cantabile as a MIDI hub going forward as much as possible.

 

Not a heavy gigger, but want my set-up to be live performance oriented. The group I'm lined up with now is playing straight-ahead 70's to early 80's stuff will require 40% piano/EP, 40% organ and 20% vintage synth sounds. Unless there are space constraints, I prefer to have both a weighted and unweighted board with me. I am also predisposed to the weighted board having triple sensors. Maybe it's my playing style or imagination, but pianos just sound much better that way...which is why I use the PX to trigger the pianos on my NE4 (which I sill have) and, now on the YC61.

 

One replacement choice I've considered other than a CP73 (which I don't think has triple sensors) is an SP6. I'd miss the sliders from the PX for a couple things but could probably get used to using the knobs on the SP6...and it looks pretty simple to operate and it's basic sounds appear to be very solid. Anyone know how the action on that compares to the PX5S?

 

I know everyone's situation is different though. I just found it interesting that there are a number of people here who seem to stick to one brand for both boards....and of course many who don't and was curious what drove those decisions.

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One replacement choice I've considered...is an SP6. I'd miss the sliders from the PX for a couple things but could probably get used to using the knobs on the SP6...and it looks pretty simple to operate and it's basic sounds appear to be very solid. Anyone know how the action on that compares to the PX5S?

Assuming it feels much like the PC4, there are things I prefer about each action. The Casio feels a bit more "solid" to me, but can be bouncy/noisy on the return. I couldn't say conclusively which I'd rather play. I can say, though, that I thought the PC4 played better than the CP73. (I really liked playing the CP88, though.)

 

I think SP6 is a sensible consideration for your short list. Also the Kawai MP7SE, if you can deal with its 46 lb weight. That's all that comes to mind when thinking about alternatives that have pretty straight-forward operation but also have decent MIDI implementation with at least some programmable knobs.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Variety is the spice of life... definitely go for two different manufacturers, or even two completely different types of boards. My top is dedicated Clonewheel/EPianos, my bottom (MainStage rig) is my workstation. It's so nice to have a general separation of duties. My hands know exactly where to go for different types of material, it's made a huge difference in my playing. Even among manufacturers, there's large differences in types of boards. I could definitely get behind having a Korg Kronos/SV-2 rig, for instance, since each fills a very different niche.

 

Redundancy is good, but in a pinch, there are VERY few gigs where you absolutely can't finish a set using slightly different tones. It even happens to huge touring bands... you just get down-and-dirty, and make it work. I heard about a Deep Purple show where the power went out, I think Richie Blackmore grabbed a conga or something and everyone had a blast. If my workstation went down, I'm good enough with B3 to be able to play the rest of the set on organ and generally fill my roles. Maybe Final Countdown gets played with all drawbars out, or even better, on Pipe Organâyou play it up and make it work. I care about redundancy only as far as, "do I have a backup plan if something fails", but even if I have to go acoustic piano the rest of a rock set, I'm gonna be able to push through. Otherwise, I like multiple boards to have legitimately unique strengths.

Puck Funk! :)

 

Equipment: Laptop running lots of nerdy software, some keyboards, noise makersâ¦yada yada yadaâ¦maybe a cat?

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I think SP6 is a sensible consideration for your short list. Also the Kawai MP7SE, if you can deal with its 46 lb weight. That's all that comes to mind when thinking about alternatives that have pretty straight-forward operation but also have decent MIDI implementation with at least some programmable knobs.

 

Weight a major concern...30 lbs limit. Just did a search saw dickiefunk had a similar thread a few months focused on my particular situation. The RD88 was one of his choices for consideration in addition to the SP6...and MODX which appears to be a great board but requires some programming...and would mean two Yamahas. I'll review the posts again to see what everyone thought. I do like the idea that I could use either board for a one board set-up if need be even if I prefer the sounds in one or the other. Appears though that the SP6 could cover everything I do in a respectable manner...would just need to throw in an outboard USB Audio for soft synth integration.

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I've always had two pretty-different boards to try to cover these three bases: piano, organ, synth. Right now, I have one keyboard that can ONLY really do synth, so that's a bit more of a "risk" than I normally take. Usually I have two keyboards that can cover everything to some degree, even if they aren't ideal in each area. I've got a pseudo-rhodes and a pseudo-organ patch on it, worst case if my MODX went down I'd limp through the night playing mostly pads.

 

If I was at a "higher level" and didn't mind the shlep and extra hassle, my rig would be a piano feel do-everything board, an organ clone, and a knobby synth. I have most of that now but am not willing to take all that out to my dinky gigs.

 

I figure keyboard failures are pretty rare. I've actually had three cases in the past eight years, but in retrospect I'm pretty convinced those were power issues--the 2nd and 3rd time was at the same venue over a year apart, this clued me in. I have a battery UPS now that hopefully will help with this, I've played that same venue a couple more times with it and no issues.

 

I don't tend to have intricate fancy patches. Often I randomly pick patches for songs as the mood hits me. If you are a player that has highly-programmed setups, that might be where you'd want two of the same thing so that if one went down you'd have a backup.

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I think SP6 is a sensible consideration for your short list. Also the Kawai MP7SE, if you can deal with its 46 lb weight. That's all that comes to mind when thinking about alternatives that have pretty straight-forward operation but also have decent MIDI implementation with at least some programmable knobs.

 

Weight a major concern...30 lbs limit. Just did a search saw dickiefunk had a similar thread a few months focused on my particular situation. The RD88 was one of his choices for consideration in addition to the SP6...and MODX which appears to be a great board but requires some programming...and would mean two Yamahas. I'll review the posts again to see what everyone thought. I do like the idea that I could use either board for a one board set-up if need be even if I prefer the sounds in one or the other. Appears though that the SP6 could cover everything I do in a respectable manner...would just need to throw in an outboard USB Audio for soft synth integration.

 

I think an SP6 would be nice. I'll say this - the PC4 costs more but gives you the controls back, plus you can load in the Purgatory Creek MKII Rhodes, which is easily the best Rhodes soundset I've ever used. I'm actually going to go a little to the opposite of what AnotherScott said about the action, but as an owner of a PC4, I think the PC4 action is less plastic-y than the PX5S action, which I really disliked. It's lighter, but feels more like a piano in my opinion.

 

To answer the original question in the thread, I usually run all my sounds off of one board with a 61-key keyboard as a controller for some sounds. For that reason I've had both a setup with two Yamaha boards and one (my current setup) with a Korg Krome and the standard Yamaha Motif XF8 that serves as the main board in most of my configurations.

Yamaha: Motif XF8, MODX7, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, PSS-470 | Roland: Fantom 7, JV-1000

Kurzweil: PC3-76, PC4 (88) | Hammond: SK Pro 73 | Korg: Triton LE 76, N1R, X5DR | Emu: Proteus/1 | Casio: CT-370 | Novation: Launchkey 37 MK3 | Technics: WSA1R

Former: Emu Proformance Plus & Mo'Phatt, Korg Krome 61, Roland Fantom XR & JV-1010, Yamaha MX61, Behringer CAT

Assorted electric & acoustic guitars and electric basses | Roland TD-17 KVX | Alesis SamplePad Pro | Assorted organs, accordions, other instruments

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I think the only time I have ever remotely seen anything like a double identical keyboard rig was Tony Kaye of Yes (Union era) playing a pair of controllers in a sort of pseudo double manual setup.
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I agree with Eric and Stokely. Two boards for redundancy is valuable, but with rare exceptions, there's no need to have the exact same patches available. With most gigs, I could get by with nothing but a piano if I had to, or nothing but a clonewheel, etc.

 

RD88 could be a possibilty, Allan Evett's even got one for sale in the garage sale, but check his posts... the board has a lot of strengths, but I'm not sure it meets your "simple operation" requirement. But maybe it depends what you need to do.

 

I think the only time I have ever remotely seen anything like a double identical keyboard rig was Tony Kaye of Yes (Union era) playing a pair of controllers in a sort of pseudo double manual setup.
Similarly, I saw Eddie Jobson's rig that consisted of nothing but a pair of VAX77 controllers.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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It really boils down to what"s best for you, given your own circumstances.

 

I run one, two or three 'boards depending on the band/gig. They are all from the same manufacturer.

 

This wasn"t a deliberate choice per se and evolved over a period of time. The factors I considered when purchasing each board were price, functionality, UX, reliability and availability. I did not do it for purposes of redundancy.

 

Believe it or not I have almost zero sonic overlap.

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In the "good ol days" those massive keyboard rigs by Wakeman and Downs had a lot of identical boards, but that was more due to physical problems of massive rigs. When you have to have that many boards, you need to be on the other side of the "room" from an important board, so then you have to copy that one somewhere else. You see Rick in the 80s run around from one side to the other, and use the same Yamaha patch in both places just because he has to get to his other Moog. It gets ridiculous. Those days are pretty much over. With more sophisticated patch setup, computers, and workstations, those giant rig scenarios are largely unnecessary. You see people like Jordan Rudess take things down to a single board and play just as many patches. I used to be a one-88 banger, tho I now like the facility of 2-3 boards with less patch switching. But please kill me if I ever have 3 multi-tiered stands.

 

There are exceptions to "I need the exact patch every time", but I'd argue that they are over-stated. Musicians are more concerned about exact patches than the audience is. I played the solo from Jump on Derek Sherinian's Korg "Monster" lead for 7 years straight, wah-pedal and everything... totally different from the original, and the audience always lost their minds (I obviously started the song with an Ob6 tho). The only time anyone ever said anything about it was from the band's previous keyboard player! In fact, never once did anyone ever come up to me and say, "your patch there isn't quite right". Also, some studio cuts have awful keyboards just because of what equipment was in the room at the time. "You Make My Dreams Come True" uses a cheesy CP30 Clav. I have that sound, but I very quickly switched to Wurli and it just sounds BETTER. I saw H&O live a few years back... low and behold, Wurli. I looked back, I've never seen them use anything but Wurli on that song live. Turns out, they didn't have a Wurli in the studio, so Daryl slummed it with a CP30. Honestly, do what sounds best.

Puck Funk! :)

 

Equipment: Laptop running lots of nerdy software, some keyboards, noise makersâ¦yada yada yadaâ¦maybe a cat?

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I do recall someone here gigging with two Nord Stages...maybe Chuck. Several years ago I was much more obsessed with getting sounds for covers as close as possible to the original recording...I'm relaxing a bit as I get older. Yes...99% of a crowd won't know or care as long as it's in the same zip code...but when I go to hear another band with a keyboard player...don't know about all of you, but I can't help but focus on that...and on the rare occasion I play out, I can't be sure one of you might somehow be out there too... :)
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As a player, I agree that no one really cares how exact you get, except maybe other musicians. But when I am one of those other musicians, listening to another KB player, I'd rather someone not get close at all, than get close-but-no-cigar. It's very distracting to hear someone who sort of stuck a foot into the ballpark and then just left it hanging there.

Now out! "Mind the Gap," a 24-song album of new material.
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I once possessed a maximum stack of five keyboards and five modules, with all of the attendant routing madness. Amplify that where I used a big Korg multitimbrally. I got sucked into Logic as if I was in "Tron", so I'm not in the same game anymore.

 

If it was me, I'd save myself 95% of the grief and take a pair of, say, the aforementioned two Nords, with Mainstage on top. There are big-stack types who still prefer the center of a Rick Ringâ¢, but live, stability is king and simple is queen. If you do your prep work and set your splits properly, you're generally good to go. If you reach the point of doing Klaus Schulze-sized shows, the discussion goes to a different planet. At that point, you have a crew to pump the bellows on that giant digital organ-beastie.

 "I want to be an intellectual, but I don't have the brainpower.
  The absent-mindedness, I've got that licked."
        ~ John Cleese

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I'll do you one better. Same boards, different sizes. (e.g. Fantom 61 over a Fantom 88). Both boards with the same library, etc....

That way you have flexibility to bring the small board to rehearsals, or smaller venues. The 88 board could be used for medium gigs and both for the arena gigs that always come up. You'd never have to worry about "oh, the good piano sound is on the other board" or "I don't have the right splits/multis setup on this one."

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As a player, I agree that no one really cares how exact you get, except maybe other musicians. But when I am one of those other musicians, listening to another KB player, I'd rather someone not get close at all, than get close-but-no-cigar. It's very distracting to hear someone who sort of stuck a foot into the ballpark and then just left it hanging there.

 

^ This! It's all about intentionality. Nothing more sorry than someone who's trying to nail something and gets it noticeably off. It's also sort of like the concept of "Uncanny Valley" in animation: either nail it, or do something completely different. For me, it's often a choice of going more organic. Many 80s hits chose very trendy sounds that haven't aged well. Some of them are iconic and deserve to be preserved, but many could have been better off on more conventional keyboard instruments. What's also important is the nature of the band. If I'm in a strictly 80s retro cover band, then it makes sense to really nail those DX7s and Jupiter-8 tones for a cohesive sound throughout the night. Me, I play in a broader party rock band (60s - 00s), so I'm often going for a more "timeless" presentation, and focus on just getting the dance floor hopping. If I'm constantly switching patches between eras, it can get a bit jarring. So I end up using a lot more B3 and Wurli than the originals had, and it unifies the set a bit better. I still dig in for iconic sounds, but the secondary stuff, I often purposefully don't bother using the same patch. Another great example is "Tainted Love", which in itself was originally a MoTown-era tune done as new wave synth-pop. I've heard funk bands do it with sax, I've seen all types of groups do it, and it's really universal. I think the piezo "beep beep" sound is super-iconic, but the synth that plays the main arpeggio line isn't... I actually use Farfisa to play that part now, it's similar to the original synth, but a bit more organic and blends better in a guitar rock context, just my opinion.

 

I'll add that I've changed drastically over the past 7 years of constant gigging. When I first started doing the pro circuit I was a zealot of matching patches. I spent HOURS fine-tuning synths. But as I get older, I realize it's more important to keep the flow going than to zip around between unrelated tones all the time, unless that's your aim.

Puck Funk! :)

 

Equipment: Laptop running lots of nerdy software, some keyboards, noise makersâ¦yada yada yadaâ¦maybe a cat?

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...and focus on just getting the dance floor hopping...I'll add that I've changed drastically over the past 7 years of constant gigging. When I first started doing the pro circuit I was a zealot of matching patches. I spent HOURS fine-tuning synths. But as I get older, I realize it's more important to keep the flow going than to zip around between unrelated tones all the time, unless that's your aim.

 

Couldn't agree more.

 

When your entire set is called from the bandstand, reacting to the dance floor that you're keeping constantly packed, sometimes faithful patch re-creation isn't the highest priority.

 

With regard to the original question, I've never used a 'same brand' approach to a two gig rig, but that's more because familiarity with the boards I own leads to knowing how use them for the sake of the song and the gig. I don't think I'd ever get dogmatic about it one way or the other - they're just tools.

..
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In the "good ol days" those massive keyboard rigs by Wakeman and Downs had a lot of identical boards, but that was more due to physical problems of massive rigs.

or in the case of Minimoogs, because they had no presets, so the only way to have quick access to two sounds was to have two of the synths!

 

I once possessed a maximum stack of five keyboards and five modules, with all of the attendant routing madness. Amplify that where I used a big Korg multitimbrally. I got sucked into Logic as if I was in "Tron", so I'm not in the same game anymore.

 

If it was me, I'd save myself 95% of the grief and take a pair of, say, the aforementioned two Nords, with Mainstage on top. There are big-stack types who still prefer the center of a Rick Ringâ¢, but live, stability is king and simple is queen. If you do your prep work and set your splits properly, you're generally good to go.

I don't think there's been much advocacy here for more than two boards (though 2 boards plus Mainstage is different from 2 boards by themselves). But every now and then, yeah, I'll do the Rick thing (actually more Keith, since it's usually parallel stacks)... like when I'm doing a prog gig with, well, a bunch of ELP. Could it be done with fewer, if I did more prep? I assume so. But I don't like prep. ;-) More than that, I don't like to be hitting patch change buttons constantly in the middle of a song, or worrying about inadvertently crossing a split point, or worrying about glitching my LH sound while changing my RH sound, or not having drawbar controls that are indeed always drawbar controls, etc. Though with a little effort, I could probably reduce the number without too much pain.

 

OTOH, for the more typical gig, I've usually gone with two boards, and lived with the compromises. Probably what I played with most often in 2019 was a MODX7 over a Casio 88. What compromises? No clonewheel. No aftertouch. To get clonewheel and AT on that top board, I'd have to swap out the MODX for a board that would be lesser in some other way, like being significantly heavier, or only having 61 keys (which is a bummer for LH bass), or not having good rapid patch selection facilities, or being noticeably sonically weaker in some other way, or not holding custom samples (okay, that's not a must have, but I'm making a point ;-) ). Not everyone cares about having all these things, but yes, I've found it a challenge to get everything I want in two lightweight boards. But now I've got the option of replacing the MODX7 with the PC4-7. Progress!

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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I'll do you one better. Same boards, different sizes. (e.g. Phantom 61 over a Phantom 88). Both boards with the same library, etc....

That way you have flexibility to bring the small board to rehearsals, or smaller venues. The 88 board could be used for medium gigs and both for the arena gigs that always come up. You'd never have to worry about "oh, the good piano sound is on the other board" or "I don't have the right splits/multis setup on this one."

 

I was going to say something close to this. DS61 (cant afford a Fantom) at home set up for practice and setting up sounds and splits. DS76 for transferring the setups and using for gigs. That way I can save and backup all my sounds and I dont have to tear down and set up my home board after every gig or rehearsal. And both are there if I need more zones for that Filmore West gig that might come up.

FunMachine.

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In the "good ol days" those massive keyboard rigs by Wakeman and Downs had a lot of identical boards, but that was more due to physical problems of massive rigs. When you have to have that many boards, you need to be on the other side of the "room" from an important board, so then you have to copy that one somewhere else. You see Rick in the 80s run around from one side to the other, and use the same Yamaha patch in both places just because he has to get to his other Moog. It gets ridiculous. Those days are pretty much over.
Wakeman used multiple Minimoogs purely because there was no patch memory, so he needed several for practical reasons. But the "room full of keyboards" is more for how Wakeman puts on a show as a master keyboardist- his setup does include matrix switchers, etc. but somehow he still ends up doing these awful stretching crossover poses to reach things. Downes massive rig (including the famous Asia riser that spanned the entire stage) was purely showing off.
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I think the only time, locally, I've ever seen a two-board rig with the same brand is my colleague, keyboardist in the function band I used to work with, who had all Korg (SV1 + Kronos, Kronos & King Korg). His most recent iteration was a Nord Stage 3 + King Korg.

 

As I've said elsewhere, the Nord + Prophet combo is very, very common here. Different mixtures of Yamaha & Korg pop up as well. I don't see Roland or Hammond in town very much.

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Nord Electro 5D, Novation Launchkey 61, Logic Pro X, Mainstage 3, lots of plugins, fingers, pencil, paper.

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