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OT: Vehicle Replacement?


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Thinking of trading my 2017 Nissan Rogue (basic, S-model), 36K miles for a 2013 Toyota 4Runner (V6 with mid-grade features), 112K miles. Payments would be the same; though likely extended approx. 18 mos.

 

Though extra gear space could be helpful, the Rogue does okay for a two-keyboard rig. I'm mostly looking at this due to a wish for a heavier duty vehicle - ideally a truck, and much more metal around me. Have been feeling this way since getting the Rogue last June. That purchase happened after my two year old Honda CRV was totaled, badly rear-ended by a guy who ran from the scene (No insurance, criminal record...) The Rogue was a quick replacement purchase, and handled through the same dealership network where I bought the Honda. Even thought then about something bigger/stronger, but wrote it off as jitters from the Honda wreck. Since then, I've almost been rear-ended again, almost t-boned by someone floating through a red light (glued to the phone...). And I narrowly missed a bad head-on yesterday with a dude passing a semi on a nearby two-lane. Wasn't a case of a quick driver doing a tight passing move. (I'm often quick/efficient OTR). His spatial and velocity perception were way off; the pickup behind and I went off onto the shoulder-shallow ditch area.

 

Going to look at the 4Runner after teaching, tonight. Gonna take lots of notes, then my wife and I will run pros and cons on it. I understand that 112K miles on a 4Runner can be almost nothing (My wife's 2014 Nissan pickup feels like it's only a couple years old). If this 4Runner has a good, solid record we may go for it. Suggestions?

'Someday, we'll look back on these days and laugh; likely a maniacal laugh from our padded cells, but a laugh nonetheless' - Mr. Boffo.

 

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I think trading for an older vehicle might be something you could regret in the longer run. Not sure how long you hold onto vehicles (I tend to drive them for 200k+ miles) and there are so many advancements in safety and tech in newer vehicles.

 

I am a fan of the 4Runner, though I can't recall when they changed generations and I like the newest one best (which has been around probably five years at least). And I like the earliest ones dating back to the '90s and '00s.

 

You'll see a hit in fuel economy for sure and gas prices are going up to historic highs, from what someone recently told me.

 

Have you considered looking at something like a Subaru? I'm biased as I have an Outback. These have amazing safety records and you could probably find one the same age or newer as your Nissan. Just a few thoughts.

 

Regards,

Eric

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I had a 1992 4Runner that I kept until 2010, and I still see some of these running around here.

 

I loved that truck, though that design had its flaws â most notably rusty tailgates from a poorly designed power window, and the head gasket â which was replaced twice (one under warranty and the other I had to pay for at around 250k km) and I went through at least 3 sets of boots.

 

We now have a 2016 Rav4 Hybrid, though I'm not crazy about the recent design trends in Japanese vehicles in general, so I'd be inclined toward the 2013 4Runner â it's still a truck. Good luck!

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Rod

Here for the gear.

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On it's surface, I'm not sure I like this deal. You're going forward in some areas, backwards in others, and paying for the privilege.

 

Things are so out of whack right now. New cars are selling for sticker, used car prices are high, and they're predicting gas shortages this summer.

 

I'd like to build a covered back deck, but the price of lumber is just too insane. Now that work has started up I really need to replace my equipment van - but will limp by for awhile longer.

 

Things have to settle down before I move forward on either of these.

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Sounds like the CRV did its job of protecting you if you walked away from a rear ender that totaled the car. Maybe need to move to where there are better drivers. Yes, I'm a CRV fan have my second one now. If I was moving gear a lot again I'd go for a small pickup with a shell for second vehicle for moving gear. If checking out used at times you can find used FedEx or other van typically MB Sprinter vans that aren't too old and in good condition at auctions. Inside already set up with big shelves that fold up.
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Sounds like the CRV did its job of protecting you if you walked away from a rear ender that totaled the car.

 

Yes.

 

How are you comparing the safety of the two models you're looking at? I understand the instinct to go for more size and mass, but I don't think that's the only factor.

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It's not a simple as bigger=safer. The 4Runner is probably more prone to roll over than the Rogue, and single car accidents account for a very large percentage of injuries/deaths.

 

Accident statistics are difficult to interpret because of confounding factors. For example, different kinds of people with different risk profiles buy different kinds of cars.

Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro

Home: Vintage Vibe 64

 

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I'd look into safety records before just assuming that larger=more metal=safer. You could be right, but might not be.

 

The trucks you see so often on the roads now are a hazard to everyone else--no way in heck I'd ever be a motorcycle rider these days for instance between the bumper heights (they won't even see you) and the fact that everyone is glued to their phone while driving.

 

They seem to be driven by hyper-aggressive road-raging douche canoes too but I don't blame the trucks for that! :D

 

I've owned several smaller trucks and honestly they weren't very useful for gigging, other than one that had a topper. I was very popular with friends who needed help moving. And if you have a topper, might as well get a minivan. I feel a minivan is far superior to either SUVs and trucks for most things--that said, not everything. Hauling lumber, towing boats, moving appliances (as we do for some rental properties), these are areas where trucks excel.

 

There are some very interesting electric truck models coming out in the years ahead, including one right out of some 1980s sci-fi b movie, the Tesla Cybertruck :D

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It's not a simple as bigger=safer.

I'm in this camp. I might wager that the safety features in a 2017 model might be better over those in a 2013 model.

 

A few years back I was T-boned while driving my little Honda Civic. Guy hit me doing 45-50. Car was totaled, but all 4 occupants in my car were all uninjured. Crumple zone technology, air bags all around, etc. are wonderful features. I had no hesitation buying another Civic to replace it.

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Partial Quote by Allan_Evert

 

" I understand that 112K miles on a 4Runner can be almost nothing"

 

That depends on how and how often it was maintained. My Experience with replacing cars has been with used cars, because I am not in the income bracket that can ever afford a new or newer car. I have bought used SUV's with success after speaking to the owner and asking how it was maintained. An owner that knows the answers off the top of his/her that used high end synthetic oil and changed it BEFORE it was due for a change, and an owner that had the Transmission and Torque Converter Flush replaced at a Commercial shop like lube mart that has the machine that removes the transmission fluid and replaces it with new fluids. Most newer vehicles tell you to replace the Cooling system fluids after 100K miles. That's WAY to long to use cooling fluid, especially if you live in a HOT area of the country. There's no such a thing as changing your fluids too often.

 

I have run SUV's for as much as 15 years before the RUST from road conditioning Brine and other chemicals by the State destroyed the body. Since then, I take my ride to the Car Wash that has under carriage wash to avoid the frame being destroyed. The only vehicle I ever owned after using my formula for running cars for over 10 years or more was a Subaru Outback that blew the head gasket. It was a 2000 Outback and I understand that Subaru had problems with that engine over a period of years.

 

Whatever you do, be sure to talk to the owner and get the maintenance record before making a move.

 

 

Mike T.

Yamaha Motif ES8, Alesis Ion, Prophet 5 Rev 3.2, 1979 Rhodes Mark 1 Suitcase 73 Piano, Arp Odyssey Md III, Roland R-70 Drum Machine, Digitech Vocalist Live Pro. Roland Boss Chorus Ensemble CE-1.

 

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As a car guy, I wholeheartedly support getting the hell out of that Nissan Rogue. They are not good cars and I would trust a 112k mile 4Runner over a 36k mile Rogue. I wouldn't own any Nissan with a CVT transmission.

 

If I'm the one car shopping, I would try to hold off for a sub-100k mile car since you still have warranty left on the Nissan.

Keyboards: Nord Electro 6D 73, Korg SV-1 88, Minilogue XD, Yamaha YPG-625

Bonus: Boss RC-3 Loopstation

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Thanks for the responses so far. I've been checking out the IIHS and NHTSA sites; very helpful. Looks like a majority of vehicles have strong safety scores, including the Rogue and 4Runner. Though the extra strong ratings lean toward the Subaru Outback and Toyota Highlander - which rates a notch higher than the 4Runner, largely due to the unibody construction vs body-on-frame. The dealer does have a couple similarly priced Highlanders on the lot, so I'll likely gather info on those too. I recall that TonySounds here had a Highlander for what seemed like decades. The MPG ratings are higher than the 4Runner and a little less than the Rogue; neither as good as the CR-V with the 1.8 Earth Dreams engine, which was incredible.

'Someday, we'll look back on these days and laugh; likely a maniacal laugh from our padded cells, but a laugh nonetheless' - Mr. Boffo.

 

We need a barfing cat emoticon!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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The Highlander is a good alternative.

 

... and Highlanders are available as hybrids.

 

As a car guy, I wholeheartedly support getting the hell out of that Nissan Rogue. They are not good cars and I would trust a 112k mile 4Runner over a 36k mile Rogue. I wouldn't own any Nissan with a CVT transmission.

 

I've heard them called "Dogues." Pardon my Frenches.

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Rod

Here for the gear.

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I"ve never owned a pickup. My gracious father, when he was with us, loaned me his Ford Ranger on countless occasions. The 2021 looks really good. But I haven"t been on a new car tier of ownership for a long time. If I go with a pickup next time around, for practicality I"ll probably have to get the larger cab shorter bed. I haven"t bought older than 3 years last two times and prior to that, I"ll drive a car for 18+ years. So what"s it going to be - pickup, SUV, or hatch-back? Pickup is edging it out at the moment. When I"m close to retirement maybe I"ll finally drive a coup. Who knows. ;)

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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â¦Have you considered looking at something like a Subaru? I'm biased as I have an Outback. These have amazing safety records and you could probably find one the same age or newer as your Nissan. Just a few thoughts.

 

Regards,

Eric

Another vote for Outback. Good safety record, full time AWD (among the best), decent MPG for a vehicle of it"s type, and ample room for gear. I"m biased also. Bought a new one last year, our third. I"d stay away from anything on a truck frame. They typically sit higher, greater chance of rollover. Unibody is built to purposely crumple and absorb the impact, and maintain a structurally sound passenger compartment.

I would like to apologize to anyone I have not yet offended. Please be patient and I will get to you shortly.
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They haven"t sold the 4Runner here for a long time but Toyotas are very popular in this country - the brand accounted for 22% of new car market share in 2020.

 

We love SUVs and utes (sort of like a smaller pickup truck) here which represented 7 out of the 10 top selling models.

 

So your thought process would resonate with most Aussies it seems. Generally there"s a perception that this type of vehicle is safer, more reliable and 'tougher' than the traditional passenger vehicle. From my own perspective I do a lot of highway driving and towing and this makes a big diesel-powered SUV a must.

 

One thing I would say: In this country used Toyotas are incredibly expensive. More so since COVID too. If this translates similarly in the US, experience tells me it"s worth investigating similarly spec"d Japanese alternatives such as Mitsubishi or Nissan, which here means you get the same amount of car for a few less $$$.

 

Good luck with it Allan!

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Thanks for the responses so far. I've been checking out the IIHS and NHTSA sites; very helpful. Looks like a majority of vehicles have strong safety scores, including the Rogue and 4Runner. Though the extra strong ratings lean toward the Subaru Outback and Toyota Highlander - which rates a notch higher than the 4Runner, largely due to the unibody construction vs body-on-frame. The dealer does have a couple similarly priced Highlanders on the lot, so I'll likely gather info on those too. I recall that TonySounds here had a Highlander for what seemed like decades. The MPG ratings are higher than the 4Runner and a little less than the Rogue; neither as good as the CR-V with the 1.8 Earth Dreams engine, which was incredible.

 

We had 2015 Highlander XLE for five years. Agreeable car, nothing exciting. If you get one, be sure it's an AWD. We skimped on that thinking FWD would be fine, but the engine is too powerful for it. You have to feather the throttle from standstill or you'll get wheel spin, very annoying/unsettling.

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I've been rocking a 2004 V8 4Runner since new and it has literally been the lowest maintenance vehicle I've ever owned. Local mpg is around 15-16. Much better on the interstate. It did a great job of holding a pro video package and lights back when I had to work for a living and it can haul a Leslie 145 standing straight up and a couple of keyboards, stands, and PA stuff. 112K isn't much for a 4R. Mine has 145K and that's way less than its cousins which usually rack up over 200K. Here in NW Arkansas 4th Gen 4Runners (2003-2009) bring anywhere from $4500-8500 depending on mileage and conditions. Stay away from the problematic X-REAS suspension. Good idea in theory, bad idea in execution.

 

The Lexus GX460 is mechanically similar with more upscale trappings.

The important thing (to me at least) is a verifiable maintenance history. Make sure oil changes have been done at 5000-7500K and cam belts or chains done around 100K. When doing the cam belts/chains it is customary to do water pumps and tensioner/idlers as a precautionary measure while you have the front of the engine accessible. Rust is a deal breaker for me but YMMV depending on the climate where you live.

 

FWIW the 4R actually has a truck style frame and the Highlander has a more car-like unibody. It may be a non issue for your mission but I used to take my 4R up in the Sierras to camp and I liked the ground clearance and sturdiness of the truck frame. I like the V8 but that's just me. I'm a car guy. PM me if you have any specific questions.

Yamaha CP73; 145 gig Leslie; Nord Electro 61; Oberheim OB3^2; Wurlitzer 200A; Ampeg Gemini I amp; Speakeasy Leslie preamp; QSC K-10

 

 

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I had a 2008 4Runner for a number of years before I got a Honda Element. It had more room than I ever used for hauling my rig. I loved the way it drove and how elevated I was off the ground. It"s definitely a truck and gas mileage even with a 6cyl engine wasn"t very good.

�Ah, music," he said, wiping his eyes. "A magic beyond all we do here!�

J.K. Rowling, Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone

 

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Personally I wouldn't worry to much about the MPG on an SUV. Being that the OP lives in the Flat Lands and needs a ride with adequate storage space, its not going to be an economy ride anyway. I live in the Allegheny Mountains of North Central PA and a ride with a small engine does not cut it where I Live. I had a nice Subaru Outback with an automatic transmission and a 2.5 liter engine. That car choked trying to get up the mountains here, and we do not have Rocky Mountain sized hills and mountains where I live. The head gasket blew on that Subaru and I was out all the money I spent on that car, it was not a good investment. Buy a ride that has enough power or live with an economy car that can't keep up with traffic and can't maintain speed going up hills or worse. Better more power than not enough. GAS is cheaper than engines. At least right now it is......

 

 

 

Mike T.

Yamaha Motif ES8, Alesis Ion, Prophet 5 Rev 3.2, 1979 Rhodes Mark 1 Suitcase 73 Piano, Arp Odyssey Md III, Roland R-70 Drum Machine, Digitech Vocalist Live Pro. Roland Boss Chorus Ensemble CE-1.

 

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Done a lot of driving in harsh mountain environments. The Cascades in the Pacific NW, Lake Tahoe, now Vermont. Subarus are ubiquitous in places like that because they handle it so well. Not fast or flashy. Had an Outback 2.5 and it was invincible.

 

Now that I've gone electric I'll never go back. The ownership experience is sublime. Unless of course you enjoy seeing your mechanic (said no one ever) or doing the work yourself (some do). But the barrier to entry is still too high for someone in Allan's position who's trying to go from used to used.

Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro

Home: Vintage Vibe 64

 

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I had a nice Subaru Outback with an automatic transmission and a 2.5 liter engine. That car choked trying to get up the mountains here, and we do not have Rocky Mountain sized hills and mountains where I live. The head gasket blew on that Subaru and I was out all the money I spent on that car, it was not a good investment. Buy a ride that has enough power or live with an economy car that can't keep up with traffic and can't maintain speed going up hills or worse. Better more power than not enough. GAS is cheaper than engines. At least right now it is......

 

 

 

Mike T.

 

Comparing a 21 year old Subaru Outback to more recent generations is apples and oranges, as the vehicle has come a long way during that time. Sure, some of the first generations of this vehicle might have had less power or known engine issues, though they are known as some of the safest and most reliable vehicles since at least 2010 (4th generation). The engines have more horsepower and are great in the mountains, even the 4-cylinder. I have a 5th generation Outback (2017) with the 3.6R engine and it is a BEAST. It is quick and fun to drive, with lots of torque and being a station wagon, is more comfortable as a regular driver, compared with a truck (in my opinion). It has some awesome tried and true tech such as Eyesight, which is a pair of front-facing cameras that do cool stuff such as adaptive cruise control, lane watching, emergency braking, etc. I've had mine for about five years and it is the best gear mobile and regular driving car I've owned. Prior to that, I had the TDI Jetta Sportwagen, which was also a nice ride. Then #dieselgate.

 

Allan, if you're considering Subaru, I'd encourage you to see if you can find a 5th generation (2015-2019) Outback with the 3.6R engine and give it a test drive.

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â¦Have you considered looking at something like a Subaru? I'm biased as I have an Outback. These have amazing safety records and you could probably find one the same age or newer as your Nissan. Just a few thoughts.

 

Regards,

Eric

Another vote for Outback. Good safety record, full time AWD (among the best), decent MPG for a vehicle of it"s type, and ample room for gear. I"m biased also. Bought a new one last year, our third. I"d stay away from anything on a truck frame. They typically sit higher, greater chance of rollover. Unibody is built to purposely crumple and absorb the impact, and maintain a structurally sound passenger compartment.

 

 

The Outback is pretty much what I consider my perfect car, except for one horrible flaw (in me, not the car so much)--back door height. It's exactly forehead height. I learned after owning a Honda Odyssey for over a decade that I utterly lack whatever skill or sense of self-preservation that keeps one from bashing their skull by lunging into the car to get stuff from the back. I drew blood on several occasions.

 

I'm pretty tall, so in addition to the skull height check I have to check for leg room, and some cars (mini cooper for example) are too low, causing me to bash the side of my head getting in.

 

I don't really need it down here in FL, but Subarus having all wheel drive is a good thing in many places.

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I had a nice Subaru Outback with an automatic transmission and a 2.5 liter engine. That car choked trying to get up the mountains here, and we do not have Rocky Mountain sized hills and mountains where I live. The head gasket blew on that Subaru and I was out all the money I spent on that car, it was not a good investment. Buy a ride that has enough power or live with an economy car that can't keep up with traffic and can't maintain speed going up hills or worse. Better more power than not enough. GAS is cheaper than engines. At least right now it is......

 

 

 

Mike T.

 

Comparing a 21 year old Subaru Outback to more recent generations is apples and oranges, as the vehicle has come a long way during that time. Sure, some of the first generations of this vehicle might have had less power or known engine issues, though they are known as some of the safest and most reliable vehicles since at least 2010 (4th generation). The engines have more horsepower and are great in the mountains, even the 4-cylinder. I have a 5th generation Outback (2017) with the 3.6R engine and it is a BEAST. It is quick and fun to drive, with lots of torque and being a station wagon, is more comfortable as a regular driver, compared with a truck (in my opinion). It has some awesome tried and true tech such as Eyesight, which is a pair of front-facing cameras that do cool stuff such as adaptive cruise control, lane watching, emergency braking, etc. I've had mine for about five years and it is the best gear mobile and regular driving car I've owned. Prior to that, I had the TDI Jetta Sportwagen, which was also a nice ride. Then #dieselgate.

 

Allan, if you're considering Subaru, I'd encourage you to see if you can find a 5th generation (2015-2019) Outback with the 3.6R engine and give it a test drive.

Yamaha Motif ES8, Alesis Ion, Prophet 5 Rev 3.2, 1979 Rhodes Mark 1 Suitcase 73 Piano, Arp Odyssey Md III, Roland R-70 Drum Machine, Digitech Vocalist Live Pro. Roland Boss Chorus Ensemble CE-1.

 

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Eric

 

I agree. I am not comparing a 21 year old Subaru with a newer generation Subaru. My Nephew bought a later generation Subaru Outback and it works great!

 

Being that the OP is looking for a USED vehicle and may not even be interested in a Subaru, the point is to talk to the owner and find out about how the car was maintained before buying anything. I have known people that don't keep after their rides because they trade them all the time or don't believe its necessary. Some Mfg's state that fluids don't have to be changed until 100k miles. Guess what? If your car breaks down, they will be happy to sell you another one.

 

I know that running synthetic fluids in your car last much longer than petroleum based fluids, but oil and coolant still get dirty and should be changed. If you pull a trailer with your car, change the Transmission and Torque Converter fluid more often than the warranty suggests. Also, make sure your ride has a large enough engine so it doesn't have to work as hard as a small one. A few less MPG doesn't amount to very much $$$ compared to driving an under powered ride, The car I have now has 335 HP and is fuel injected. It runs great and has no problem with the mountains were I live. I get 17 to 19 mpg average and more on the Interstate with less mountain roads. My Fuel bill is not all that much higher than the 2.5 liter engine I had in that Subaru.

 

Mike T.

Yamaha Motif ES8, Alesis Ion, Prophet 5 Rev 3.2, 1979 Rhodes Mark 1 Suitcase 73 Piano, Arp Odyssey Md III, Roland R-70 Drum Machine, Digitech Vocalist Live Pro. Roland Boss Chorus Ensemble CE-1.

 

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Allan, if you're considering Subaru, I'd encourage you to see if you can find a 5th generation (2015-2019) Outback with the 3.6R engine and give it a test drive.

 

Eric, other than an unexpected CVT problem at 137K miles my 2011 Outback was a great car. I had it for 7 years, and traded it for the now-totaled 2018 Honda CR-V. At the time of the accident I had just lost a major chunk of income, so I downgraded slightly to the 2017 Rogue to reflect that.

 

I did test drive a 2013 4Runner last night; it's in great shape and meticulously maintained, so the 112K doesn't scare me much. But after looking at our budget, my wife and I decided to hold off a bit on the vehicle replacement idea. We bought a smaller house back in January, with the idea of selling our current home after a few renovations were completed at the new house. Between a few 'surprises' and contractor delays, we're juggling the two places somewhat longer than expected. After studying the NHTSA and IIHS sites, I'm thinking of modifying the now delayed replacement - looking at the reality of longer drives and sharp fuel cost increases. If I found something with closer to 76-80 CF of cargo space - plus a top safety rating - I'd consider going that direction. The 6 CF of extra cargo space in the CR-V was helpful (vs the Rogue, at 70 CF). The newest Outbacks are close to the CR-V for space, so we may consider going back to Subaru. I also checked out a 2015 Highlander last night, but other than the very generous cargo space - 89 CF, IIRC - I wasn't blown away, and concluded that my Rogue has a better driving feel. In 'Sport' mode it's a fun drive; not super-fast, but surprisingly nimble.

'Someday, we'll look back on these days and laugh; likely a maniacal laugh from our padded cells, but a laugh nonetheless' - Mr. Boffo.

 

We need a barfing cat emoticon!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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â¦A few less MPG doesn't amount to very much $$$ compared to driving an under powered ride, The car I have now has 335 HP and is fuel injected. It runs great and has no problem with the mountains were I live. I get 17 to 19 mpg average and more on the Interstate with less mountain roads. My Fuel bill is not all that much higher than the 2.5 liter engine I had in that Subaru.

 

Mike T.

While I know the 2.5 litre Outback is not going to win any races, I"m getting around 30 MPG normal driving with an AWD car. That adds up when compared to 17 - 19 MPG. Sure I wish it had a bit more power, but it"s never let me down or feels overworked. It"s a comfortable everyday driver, as well as a capable gear hauler. Loading and unloading is easy due to a wide opening and friendly deck height. Yeah, I know I sound like a commercial, but for me, it"s close to the perfect car. To the OP, test drive a 4 to 8 year old Outback. Which would be a gen 4 or 5.

I would like to apologize to anyone I have not yet offended. Please be patient and I will get to you shortly.
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