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Kurzweil PC4


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Pricing in the US for Kawai, Korg and Yamaha is usually pretty good. Nord tends to be high here compared to selling price in EU.

 

But things are all bizarre right now. The US dollar is trading at .92 Euro right now. A PC4 from Thommann is $1799 excluding VAT. It sells for $1999 US here.

 

That is interesting and an explanation on the $200 gap would be useful. It might be a Kurzweil tactic vs " Country A vs Country B ".

Why fit in, when you were born to stand out ?

My Soundcloud with many originals:

[70's Songwriter]

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Question for Dave Weiser if I may. Do Kurzweil still have an R&D department in Boston? If so, is a visit possible?

 

That's where I worked for 13 years! Got out for good behavior. :P It's in Waltham, where I lived until moving up to Haverhill last year. It's technically called YCRDI - Young Chang Research & Development Institute. When we would get asked all kinds of crazy requests from the sales guys and HQ we would joke that it stood for "You Can't Really Do It".

 

I no longer work there, and the guys are absolutely swamped with work, so not sure if I could swing a tour. I do a have a nice selection of Kurz boards in my studio here, including a prototype VA-1 that works!

https://www.facebook.com/david.weiser.73/videos/10218594162097652/

Come by anytime (when the world is done blowing up)!

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Yeah, I succumbed and got one too Fleer! I have had issues with Kurz's way of doing effects routing and saving in the past, but I think this 'board MIGHT just be the one "all-rounder" I've been looking for, so maybe I will spend a bit more time on learning it. Time will tell of course haha!

There is no luck - luck is simply the confluence of circumstance and co-incidence...

 

Time is the final arbiter for all things

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Yay! Great to hear, miden.

I"ve been reading up on Kurz from when Ray Kurzweil started with Stevie Wonder and launched the K250. And the K2000. And the K2661. And the PC3. It"s such an amazing company and I love the fact they"re still doing R&D out of Waltham, MA.

When my PC4 arrives tomorrow, I"ll be all over it.

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  • 11 months later...
Does anybody have pics of this internal keyboard mechanism? The picture of the Medeli version-the only one I've found so far-looks a little strange-as if they attached weights at the end of a normal spring-action keyboard-beyond the fulcrum end of the key. And how are your PC4 keys holding up-any mechanical problems after playing for a few months or more?
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All fine here, one year in.

 

How are you finding the keybed now fleer, a little noisier than when new?

There is no luck - luck is simply the confluence of circumstance and co-incidence...

 

Time is the final arbiter for all things

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All fine here, one year in.

 

How are you finding the keybed now fleer, a little noisier than when new?

Pretty much the same, still like it a lot. But it"s a plastic construction, no doubt, so you"ll always hear more than with MDF composite orchardboard underneath (which I don"t care for).

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All fine here, one year in.

 

How are you finding the keybed now fleer, a little noisier than when new?

Pretty much the same, still like it a lot. But it"s a plastic construction, no doubt, so you"ll always hear more than with MDF composite orchardboard underneath (which I don"t care for).

Thanks, yeah agree!

There is no luck - luck is simply the confluence of circumstance and co-incidence...

 

Time is the final arbiter for all things

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  • 5 weeks later...

sorry, replied to an earlier post. Deleted. One concern with the PC4-i have 2 TP40 Fusions i resurrected and had to do extensive mods to get the keybeds to work properly no wonder these didn't sell so well although I've solved the inherent defects with extensive re-engineering involving even drillbits and screwguns-leave it at that, 2 Casio PX's 560 and 350-definitely a different feel between the TP40 keys and the PX lightweights which I'm guessing the PC4 might be closer to the PX's than the TP40. Tough call, I can see a need for both styles of keybeds.

 

My concern though-the internal construction of the new breed of lightweight hammer-action keys. I have seen only one picture of the internal mechanism of the Medeli--not the PC4 so can't be sure if its mechanically the same. If it is, the Medeli seems to have a very thin piece of plastic at the fulcrum point-rather than a true mechanical pivot as typical hammer-actions do. if anyone here can post a pic of the PC4 internal key mechanism-I play every day-have had to major mod these lighter-weight keys as the amount of wear and tear I create seriously deteriorates the actions on these lightweights over time-but the TP40 mechanically-as heavy as it is-and I have a bad back from years of lugging equipment-before I pull the trigger on a PC4-i'd really like to see the keybed internals. Also need to save my carpals, so far so good but I've had some trouble since i started playing mainly digital hammer-actions, a shallow action is not good for my style of playing. if I want a Hammond keybed, I'll play one. Like someone posted here already, I don't particularly care for a hybrid trying to do both-and i wasn't aware that this was the design behind the PC4, but if it works-he** I play organ riffs and leads on the TP40s-no wonder I'm having trouble with my carpals. But I hate playing piano parts on a spring-action key. Like eating a picture of a hamburger instead of a real one..... :bor:

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  • 8 months later...

Bonjour,

 

J'ai un PC4 depuis 4 jours, je n'avais jamais eu d'instrument Kurzweil auparavant.

Je ne sais pas si c'est mon oreille ou quoi mais je trouve que les sons n'ont pas beaucoup de profondeur, on a plus de profondeur (basse) chez korg et plus de pêche chez Roland.

J'ai beaucoup de synthés chez moi et c'est mon seul Kurzweil donc je vais le garder un petit moment mais je reste sur ma faim niveau sons...  c'est dommage.

Je voudrai juste préciser que, étant passionné de Hi-fi, je raccorde mes synthés sur du très bon matériel et la différence est quand même assez flagrante, le triton extrème à un son bien plus ample, qui rempli bien plus la pièce.

 

J'espère pouvoir avoir des avis assez neutre car pour ma part je ne suis pas pour préférer l'une ou l'autre marque, il s'agit juste d'une constatation.

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2 hours ago, ffafchamps said:

Bonjour,

 

J'ai un PC4 depuis 4 jours, je n'avais jamais eu d'instrument Kurzweil auparavant.

Je ne sais pas si c'est mon oreille ou quoi mais je trouve que les sons n'ont pas beaucoup de profondeur, on a plus de profondeur (basse) chez korg et plus de pêche chez Roland.

J'ai beaucoup de synthés chez moi et c'est mon seul Kurzweil donc je vais le garder un petit moment mais je reste sur ma faim niveau sons...  c'est dommage.

Je voudrai juste préciser que, étant passionné de Hi-fi, je raccorde mes synthés sur du très bon matériel et la différence est quand même assez flagrante, le triton extrème à un son bien plus ample, qui rempli bien plus la pièce.

 

J'espère pouvoir avoir des avis assez neutre car pour ma part je ne suis pas pour préférer l'une ou l'autre marque, il s'agit juste d'une constatation.

Translated for the non-French speakers here (that includes me):

Quote

Hello, I've had a PC4 for 4 days, I've never had a Kurzweil instrument before. I do not know if it's my ear or what but I find that the sounds do not have much depth, there is more depth (low) at Korg and more fishing at Roland. I have a lot of synths at home and it's my only Kurzweil so I'm going to keep it for a while but I'm still unsatisfied in terms of sounds... it's a shame. I would just like to point out that, being a hi-fi enthusiast, I connect my synths to very good equipment and the difference is still quite obvious, the extreme triton has a much fuller sound, which fills the room much more. I hope to be able to have fairly neutral opinions because for my part I am not in favor of one or the other brand, it is just an observation.

 

Welcome to the forum! I noticed that sound profile with both my PC3 and PC4 as well. Kurzweil seems to have a slighly "rounder' more midrange-heavy sound than Korg, Roland, or Yamaha, all three of which tend to recess their mid frequencies a bit. Kind of like the reverse of the difference between Yamaha speakers (that typically recess the midrange a little) and other brands. I struggled with it initially, but what I've found is that Kurzweil's programming ends up sounding great on stage either solo or with a band. It's not overly artificial sounding (like I struggle with with Korg patches live), especially for acoustic instruments. But yes, the PC4 has a slightly "boxier" sound to it than any Yamaha, Korg, or Roland board I've played. It ends up being great when playing out but not as fun for playing at home in a critical listening environment. Played at a gig it does sound like a mic'ed up piano in the room. Maybe the best way for me to describe it is that it sounds less like a piano you're sitting in front of playing and more like a piano with some nice microphones on it. Hence I find it sounds great live (especially the 7' grand).

 

That said, the PC4 makes it really easy to EQ your sounds to have more low or high end or adjust the mids. I've done that for some of the pianos to get something I really like. You would just press the leftmost soft button under Fader 1 to turn the EQ on and then adjust the first four knobs on the left side (knob 1 is Bass, knob 2 is Mids, knob 3 is mid frequency, and knob 4 is Treble if I recall correctly - I don't have my PC4 set up right now). Then save that as a user program and you're good to go.

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Yamaha: Motif XF8, MODX7, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, PSS-470 | Roland: Fantom 7, JV-1000

Kurzweil: PC3-76, PC4 (88) | Hammond: SK Pro 73 | Korg: Triton LE 76, N1R, X5DR | Emu: Proteus/1 | Casio: CT-370 | Novation: Launchkey 37 MK3 | Technics: WSA1R

Former: Emu Proformance Plus & Mo'Phatt, Korg Krome 61, Roland Fantom XR & JV-1010, Yamaha MX61, Behringer CAT

Assorted electric & acoustic guitars and electric basses | Roland TD-17 KVX | Alesis SamplePad Pro | Assorted organs, accordions, other instruments

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My Kurzweil experience (PC3) was that the patches aren't all over the frequency spectrum.

 

They were made to sit in a mix or band context. Boring in all the right ways :)

 

I had the Yamaha, Korg, and Roland contemporaries to compare to. Each had their strengths but for band work the Kurz was more than capable.

 

I make software noises.
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You probably have done so, but make sure the volumes match when comparing.   Obviously every keyboard can have differing output levels, and the louder sound is almost always perceived as better (and of course you'll hear more low end).

If I recall correctly, one thing about many of my old PC3 sounds is that they were not very "stereo".  This was great for live work, since they'd have about the same sound and volume in stereo or mono.  My old Motif had some patches that were super wide and full, but didn't work at all in mono.  So this could be a factor too if the PC4 has patches like this.

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"more depth (low) at Korg and more fishing at Roland"

 

Hah.  So, yeah, I only knew "pêche" as fishing, or peach.  Looking at https://www.wordreference.com/fren/peche, apparently there's another sense, "avoir la pêche loc v familier (être plein d'énergie) feel great, feel in top form, feel happy".  I wonder whether "energetic" would cover it?  Or, they also list "argot (coup de poing)"--punchiness?

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Hey, now that I just got a used Forte delivered (very similar), one other thing:

Kurzweil is pretty much the only manufacturer I've tried that has most patches pretty dry.   That can make a big difference in perceived quality.   To my mind, they have the gigging keyboardist in mind.  Just going through the first bunch of patches, I'd say most of them are either bone dry or with a very short room reverb.

I end up taking reverb way, way down most of my MODX patches on the other hand.   

There's no doubt a bit fat delay or reverb can make things sound a lot fuller, so keep that in mind as well.  If you compare two pianos for example, make sure they have similar amounts of effects and similar types of effects on them.

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  • 2 months later...

I'm trying to utilize the screenshot function of the PC4-7, and cannot find where it's been discussed here at Keyboard Corner. I remember reading about it but Search doesn't yield the results. I found on KSetlist.com that the 1+4 soft buttons initiate the screen grab from the PC4-7, but what receives it? I'm USB connected to my Win10 desktop. I opened paint.net, but the Acquire has camera/scanner grayed out (since I have neither attached). Must it be grabbed through the Sound Tower app? Any instructions or help would be appreciated. There's nothing in the manual, of course. Trying to take pics of the screen with my phone is not optimal.

The fact there's a Highway To Hell and only a Stairway To Heaven says a lot about anticipated traffic numbers

 

People only say "It's a free country" when they're doing something shitty-Demetri Martin

 

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2 hours ago, Synthaholic said:

I'm trying to utilize the screenshot function of the PC4-7, and cannot find where it's been discussed here at Keyboard Corner. I remember reading about it but Search doesn't yield the results. I found on KSetlist.com that the 1+4 soft buttons initiate the screen grab from the PC4-7, but what receives it? I'm USB connected to my Win10 desktop. I opened paint.net, but the Acquire has camera/scanner grayed out (since I have neither attached). Must it be grabbed through the Sound Tower app? Any instructions or help would be appreciated. There's nothing in the manual, of course. Trying to take pics of the screen with my phone is not optimal.

As I recall (waffle phrase to get me off the hook), it will dump to a jump drive plugged into your other USB jack.

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-Tom Williams

{First Name} {at} AirNetworking {dot} com

PC4-7, PX-5S, AX-Edge, PC361

 

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2 hours ago, Tom Williams said:

As I recall (waffle phrase to get me off the hook), it will dump to a jump drive plugged into your other USB jack.

Ahh, I didn't think of that. Thanks!

The fact there's a Highway To Hell and only a Stairway To Heaven says a lot about anticipated traffic numbers

 

People only say "It's a free country" when they're doing something shitty-Demetri Martin

 

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  • 1 year later...
On 5/20/2021 at 7:43 PM, JDBlackhawk said:

My concern though-the internal construction of the new breed of lightweight hammer-action keys. I have seen only one picture of the internal mechanism of the Medeli--not the PC4 so can't be sure if its mechanically the same. If it is, the Medeli seems to have a very thin piece of plastic at the fulcrum point-rather than a true mechanical pivot as typical hammer-actions do. if anyone here can post a pic of the PC4 internal key mechanism-I play every day-have had to major mod these lighter-weight keys as the amount of wear and tear I create seriously deteriorates the actions on these lightweights over time-but the TP40 mechanically-as heavy as it is-and I have a bad back from years of lugging equipment-before I pull the trigger on a PC4-i'd really like to see the keybed internals.

 

Sorry this is nearly two years behind, but I thought it worthwhile sharing my experience with the Medeli keys (in the SP6, but relevant to PC4 users).

 

In early 2018 I bought one of the first SP6 units to arrive in the UK and have used it regularly ever since, mainly as a rehearsal board. Last year, when I resumed gigging, I became concerned that if something went awry with the SP6 I'd be in trouble as I'd programmed entire sets into the board, and so I bought another - secondhand, but one that had seen very little use.

 

Fast forward a few months and I was glad that I had the backup. In February this year I was practicing on my original SP6 and the F# above middle-C broke. I'm not in the least bit technically proficient, but because I had another to fall back on I turned the damaged unit over and proceeded to remove what felt like a hundred screws, all the while concerned that I was going to brick the entire board. Once I had it opened up - a surprisingly straightforward, if tedious, process - I could immediately see the problem. The black key had snapped off at the thin and vulnerable plastic joint where the actual key connects to a kind of small flat plate and "H-shaped" pivot piece.

 

The black keys were grouped in clusters of five, held by four screws that also secured the accompanying white keys. I had found a video on YT that showed a similar Medeli action being repaired:

 

With a bit of waggling I was able to remove the damaged section and inspect the damage. I found a small piece of plastic to use as reinforcement, applied some hard-plastic glue and later reassembled the piano. Everything looked and worked fine, but I was concerned that it wouldn't hold for long, particularly as the joint is so flimsy, so I hunted around for replacement keys. The UK distributor agreed to send me a set of black keys for free, which was a nice gesture, although when they arrived I discovered the set had been damaged so that the C# and D# didn't align properly, but the F# and above were fine. What I did then displays my complete DIY incompetence.

 

I took an old hairdryer and attempted to soften the plastic and bend the keys back into alignment. I succeeded beyond all expectations and melted the plastic pivot into a distorted mess! Although I had actually improved the alignment by a margin, I was worried that I had weakened the structure. By now I was running out of options! As a last-ditch attempt I took out a dremel, cut both the old and new key sections between the D# and F#, and with two screws on each side, refitted the good portions of each cluster. Just to be sure, and because the key groups are interchgangeable across the keyboard, instead of replacing the repaired unit in the middle of the board I swapped it for one near the bottom. It has held fine since then.

 

One other little anomaly with the action occured yesterday with the newer of my two SP6 units. I had taken it to a rehearsal and suddenly noticed that the B below middle-C had stiffened and was quite difficult to press down. I gave it a good minute or two of hammering and it eased, but it left me a little worried as to what caused it and whether it would return. The only things I could think of were lack of lubricant, one of the plastic sheaths that sit between key and hammer mechanism had shifted (possibly in transport) or a foreign body had become trapped. The latter is unlikely as there was no indication of anything rattling within the casing after the key had been eased. I also think it unlikely that a lack of grease would cause sudden stiffness and equally sudden release, so I'm left thinking that it's probably a loose plastic sheath. When I dismantled the older board, key removal sometimes dislodged a sheath which I had to reposition. It's possible that transport could cause such a problem. I'm reluctant to open up this board as it's a PITA, but will do so if it occurs again. Despite the issues, I still think this is a great board - but maybe Kurzweil could consider the TP110 for lightweight boards in the future.

 

Pics show the key problems after I'd split the two key clusters (which I placed together for the first photo to show roughly what the cluster looks like when it hasn't been hacked in two!). The F# illustrates my repair of the old unit with glue and reinforcement. The C# details what happened after I tried heat-treatment to bend the replacement unit back into alignment. I didn't think to take photos while I had the SP6 opened up, but the images in the linked video are very similar to what confronted me during the replacement.

P1010454.JPG

P1010455.JPG

P1010456.JPG

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