Chord quiz

[Paul Harrison]

A question for you chart gurus with sharp ears.

 

- In this piece, which is in Dm, the A section starts with a two-chord vamp (Eb6/9 and Dm9 repeated six times). How would you write the six chords in the turnaround at the end of this section (0:42 - 0:52), which I'm hearing as Dm9, Bm11, F13, E7#5#9, Bb7#11, A7+ ?

 

- The B section follows with a similar two-chord vamp (Eb6/9 and Dm9 repeated three times, then up a step to F6/9 and Em9 repeated three times). How would you write the three chords in the turnaround at the end of this section (1:26 - 1:30), which I'm hearing as Em9, Bb13, A7#5#9 ?

 

- The C section follows with a four-chord vamp (1:31 - 1:35), which I'm hearing as Dm9, Bm9, G11, A11, repeated three times before a turnaround, Dm9, G11, A11, A7+ .

 

As in other recent threads like this, I'm aiming for a lead sheet with chord symbols as simple and easy to read as possible for suggesting the voicings without writing them out.

 

[video:youtube]

[AROIOS]

I think you nailed most of them.

 

A few nits:

 

Part.1) F13: F6/9

Part.2) A7#5#9: A11

Part.3) G11, A11: G9sus4, A9sus4

[Paul Harrison]

Thanks!

 

Part.2) A7#5#9: A11

 

For that extended A chord at the end of the B section (1:28 - 1:30), I'm hearing (imagining?) an F natural (i.e., the #5) in there somewhere, so if I kept that in, would you find it easier to read as A11+, A11b13, or just A7+ with a D in the melody (i.e., [A] or or [C] in the attached image)?

[Theo Verelst]

To me the complexity of the chords and the "going out on a 3d" sounds more natural (and more like the YT), he's doing Dm mostly in the Gm Am cadence (Bluesy, kind of Dorian soloing), with some mostly (but not all) chromatic funky rhythm guitar slides, then in the first change, move from Dm to F (major), and a change to Fb5 and Fm7, and back to Dm.

 

In what you call "C" section, there's a repeating D with the bass following a Gm, maybe a Gsus4.

 

O f course you could follow the melody, understand the changes and come up with more freaky or funky lines, but the YT makes the production work without much of the suggested chords mostly.

 

T

[jarrell]

 

For that extended A chord at the end of the B section (1:28 - 1:30), I'm hearing (imagining?) an F natural (i.e., the #5) in there somewhere, so if I kept that in, would you find it easier to read as A11+, A11b13, or just A7+ with a D in the melody (i.e., [A] or or [C] in the attached image)?

 

I wouldn't use the plus sign; pretty sure it is only used for augmented chords, not dominant chords. Never seen it after an 11.

 

I would write it as A7#5 - I don't hear a sharp 11 or sharp/flat 9th, which using a 13th would imply.

[AROIOS]

Thanks!

 

Part.2) A7#5#9: A11

 

For that extended A chord at the end of the B section (1:28 - 1:30), I'm hearing (imagining?) an F natural (i.e., the #5) in there somewhere, so if I kept that in, would you find it easier to read as A11+, A11b13, or just A7+ with a D in the melody (i.e., [A] or or [C] in the attached image)?

 

You're welcome.

 

Personally, I would avoid keeping both the 4 and #5 in the chord. To my old-school ears, it's too "unresolved" at an end of a phrase.

 

If you like that sound though, A11b13 (or A11#5) looks fine.

 

As jarrell already pointed out, most people automatically think augmented when they see "+". In dominant chords, #5 is usually called out explicitly, except in "alt", which could mean several things, but usually played as #5#9 in Pop Jazz as heard in Part 1 of your example.

[Jazz+]

Have you got a melody lead sheet now? I would like a copy.

[Paul Harrison]

... If you like that sound though, A11b13 (or A11#5) looks fine.

 

As jarrell already pointed out, most people automatically think augmented when they see "+". In dominant chords, #5 is usually called out explicitly, except in "alt", which could mean several things, but usually played as #5#9 in Pop Jazz as heard in Part 1 of your example.

 

The +7 symbol does seem to be in use (e.g., "A Complete Guide to Chord Symbols" lists "Augmented seventh = aug7, +7, 7#5"), but I agree 7#5 is clear, and I'll stick with that.

[linwood]

This isn't what they played, but I'd probably go:

 

[Paul Harrison]

This isn't what they played, but I'd probably go ...

 

 

I put 11th chords in the Dm9, Bm9, G11, A11 vamp, but I see some debate over writing G11 or G9sus4 or F/G; is it just about what's easier to read versus what's technically accurate in each context, or are there other considerations?

[AROIOS]

 

Here's my draft.

 

I put 11th chords in the Dm9, Bm9, G11, A11 vamp (B1, B2, Outro), but I see some debate over writing G11 or G9sus4 or F/G; is it just about what's easier to read versus what's technically accurate in each context, or are there other considerations?

 

G11 implies the 3rd note (B) while G9sus4 doesn't. In reality, Jazz lead sheets often simply mark it as G7 and leave it to the players to embellish it as they see fit. I often see G11 in place of G9sus4 and don't think it's blasphemy to use them interchangeably.

 

F/G and Dm7/G and Bbmaj9/G and G9sus4 are the same thing, as far as I'm concerned.

[jerrythek]

 

Here's my draft.

 

I put 11th chords in the Dm9, Bm9, G11, A11 vamp (B1, B2, Outro), but I see some debate over writing G11 or G9sus4 or F/G; is it just about what's easier to read versus what's technically accurate in each context, or are there other considerations?

 

G11 implies the 3rd note (B) while G9sus4 doesn't. In reality, Jazz lead sheets often simply mark it as G7 and leave it to the players to embellish it as they see fit.

 

F/G and Dm7/G and Bbmaj9/G and G9sus4 are the same thing, as far as I'm concerned.

 

I would have to disagree about the Bbmaj9/G - that's a G minor 11th, not a sus chord, due to the Bb. All your others are related to indicating a Gsus type chord.

 

Cheers!

 

Jerry

[AROIOS]

 

Here's my draft.

 

I put 11th chords in the Dm9, Bm9, G11, A11 vamp (B1, B2, Outro), but I see some debate over writing G11 or G9sus4 or F/G; is it just about what's easier to read versus what's technically accurate in each context, or are there other considerations?

 

G11 implies the 3rd note (B) while G9sus4 doesn't. In reality, Jazz lead sheets often simply mark it as G7 and leave it to the players to embellish it as they see fit.

 

F/G and Dm7/G and Bbmaj9/G and G9sus4 are the same thing, as far as I'm concerned.

 

I would have to disagree about the Bbmaj9/G - that's a G minor 11th, not a sus chord, due to the Bb. All your others are related to indicating a Gsus type chord.

 

Cheers!

 

Jerry

 

You raised a valid point.

 

In practice, when it comes to maj7 and maj9 chords, most folks I listen to (myself included) only use the root note in, well, the root. That takes care of the Bb once we slash (no pun intended) it.

[Theo Verelst]

I'd like to hear any of you actually play those proposed "strange" chords, because I have the impression they'd sound a bit sh*tty, and do not relate directly to the YT at all. Just searching fancy chords at the very least will kill the Blues and probably the proper Jazz feel of a piece.My analysis I do not think will lead you astray from the original and I (shortly but easily) can demo those chords with some scales from M.A., shouldn't that be the proper answer to the question?

 

T

[Paul Harrison]

Have you got a melody lead sheet now? I would like a copy.

 

Here's a draft that works for me.

1955.pdf

[jerrythek]

 

F/G and Dm7/G and Bbmaj9/G and G9sus4 are the same thing, as far as I'm concerned.

 

I would have to disagree about the Bbmaj9/G - that's a G minor 11th, not a sus chord, due to the Bb. All your others are related to indicating a Gsus type chord.

 

Cheers!

 

Jerry

 

You raised a valid point.

 

In practice, when it comes to maj7 and maj9 chords, most folks I listen to (myself included) only use the root note in, well, the root. That takes care of the Bb once we slash (no pun intended) it.

 

I don"t follow what you"re saying... if you don"t use the Bb because it is a slash chord, then using that name for the upper part of the slash chord is... confusing, to put it politely. That is far from common. Based on what you"re saying it would be clearer to call it Dm7/G as you had already listed. Most musicians who see Bbmaj7/G are certainly going to have a Bb note somewhere in their RH. I"m a college-educated jazz player, and I"ve never encountered jazz chord symbols that are commonly assumed to not use a note clearly called out in the name.

 

Jerry

[Al Quinn]

Most musicians who see Bbmaj7/G are certainly going to have a Bb note somewhere in their RH.

I agree

[AROIOS]

 

F/G and Dm7/G and Bbmaj9/G and G9sus4 are the same thing, as far as I'm concerned.

 

I would have to disagree about the Bbmaj9/G - that's a G minor 11th, not a sus chord, due to the Bb. All your others are related to indicating a Gsus type chord.

 

Cheers!

 

Jerry

 

You raised a valid point.

 

In practice, when it comes to maj7 and maj9 chords, most folks I listen to (myself included) only use the root note in, well, the root. That takes care of the Bb once we slash (no pun intended) it.

 

I don"t follow what you"re saying... if you don"t use the Bb because it is a slash chord, then using that name for the upper part of the slash chord is... confusing, to put it politely. That is far from common. Based on what you"re saying it would be clearer to call it Dm7/G as you had already listed. Most musicians who see Bbmaj7/G are certainly going to have a Bb note somewhere in their RH. I"m a college-educated jazz player, and I"ve never encountered jazz chord symbols that are commonly assumed to not use a note clearly called out in the name.

 

Jerry

 

You missed the "when it comes to maj7 and maj9 chords" part.

[jerrythek]

Hi Aroios:

 

I don"t think I did, if you were referring to playing regular major7th and 9th chords. But I still don"t follow what you then meant when you said, 'That takes care of the Bb when we slash it'.

 

???

[AROIOS]

Hi Aroios:

 

I don"t think I did, if you were referring to playing regular major7th and 9th chords. But I still don"t follow what you then meant when you said, 'That takes care of the Bb when we slash it'.

 

???

 

If we play the root note of a Maj7 or Maj9 in RH, it tend to clash with the defining 7th note sonically. This practice used to be a taboo in Classical music and aren't often used in the Jazz Ballads I listen to either.

 

Short of the root note in RH, when we turn a maj7 or maj9 chord into a slashed chord like Bbmaj9/G, it "slash"s (hence the pun) the remaining occurrence of the root note from the voicing, thus avoiding the risk of sounding minor as you pointed out.

 

With that said, there's no law or theory prohibiting anyone from playing the root note of a maj7 or maj9 in RH. It's just my preference and the reason why I qualified my comments with "as far as I'm concerned." and "when it comes to maj7 and maj9".

 

It's all part of my habit of finding commonality among chords, which helps me a lot in analyzing harmony functions and practicing re-harmonization. Here's another one of my favorite: Im6 ~ II11b9 ~ bIII6b5 ~ IV9 ~ VIm7b5 ~ VII7#5(b9).

[jerrythek]

Thanks for finishing explaining yourself.

 

Well... in the context of the OP request I sill still hold that this suggestion Bbmaj7/G is a really bad choice to provide a chord name that will induce the player to play the type of voicing he was looking for. Using a chord voicing that has the assumption that the player will know NOT TO USE the very name of the chord you are writing down is a highly innacurate way to go about it.

 

As for your assumptions/preferences/rules, we all have our tastes and methods - I certainly respect that. I personally at times really like the "crunch" that the minor 2nd between the root and the major seventh produces, so it has it's place. As for "used to be taboo" references, remember that in Gregorian Chant era and beyond, the tritone was considered the devil's interval... where would jazz be if we never started using it?

 

:-)

 

I would suggest that when it comes to jazz harmony and voicings, "rules" shouldn't be applied too rigorously... common practices are all well and good, but they change from era to era. And it's the context that is most important. Sometimes an idea works really well when you might have not tried it due to some strict doctrine you are following. When learning, it helps to set limits, and develop "rules', but then as time goes on you can and should relax them a bit and be willing to explore more.

 

Onward!

 

Jerry