OT: I just got the vaccine. Ask me anything.

[OB Dave]

I strongly suspect that the temperature requirements for the Pfizer vaccine don't need to be as stringent as they are. Keep in mind, all of these companies were in a race against the clock, and the FDA process is long and cumbersome and they wanted to maximize their likelihood of success on the first attempt. It's quite likely that lower dosages would have been equally effective, and that the storage requirements didn't need to be as stringent, and so on/ But since that's what they went through FDA trials with, that's what they need to use in deployment. For the time being, anyway.

 

The mRNA technology is pretty impressive and it could be as revolutionary as the Salk vaccine was.

[Delaware Dave]

The U.S. usage of the J&J vaccine has been temporarily paused because of a small number of instances of a rare blood clot issue (cerebral venous sinus thromboses) in combination with low platelets, similar to the AstraZeneca vaccine. It's being investigated currently.

 

In other news, I found out which specific COVID vaccine there is a close-family reaction problem with - it's the Pfizer one. Somehow I'm not as surprised as in some ways it seemed like that was the one that had the most specific temperature requirements and stability conditions. I will be interested in future second generation COVID and/or MRNA vaccines to see what they can do about that. I wonder if given more time that temperature requirement would have been eliminated. Not necessarily saying the Pfizer one was "less finished", but it's just an interesting footnote that makes one think (and it's been bugging me for a while). Like I mentioned earlier, it's interesting to watch from a scientific standpoint.

 

I'm not thrilled about various countries starting to limit the AZ vaccine to older population groups. I'm 19 but that's the only one I feel okay about given the numerous other reaction issues in blood relatives. So I really hope that between the AZ and J&J vaccines someone can figure out what's causing the clotting issue and find the best way to treat it so that age requirement can be lowered again.

 

I just got the J&J Sunday. Zero reaction so far; not even fatigue, no sore arm at the injection site, nothing. Given it's Thursday unless I get some blood clot issue as spoken to above I'm hoping I'm past any adverse reactions. I do like the one and done methodology of J&J, although I thought that I read somewhere that it is not as effective as the others. Hoping that is not the case.

[Stokely]

Ironically, mom (who is 77 and still not vaccinated) said she was holding out for the J&J. First she said it was because she'd only need one shot, then she brought up the clotting issues. She is on blood thinners so indeed this is an area of interest for her. I mentioned that I had not heard anything about either Pfizer or Moderna having clotting issues and now ironically it's the one she wanted (J&J) that is being held up. I did some research at her house during my last visit and found very little about it, so I asked where she heard that Pfizer/Moderna had these issues. "I don't know where I heard it." O_o People get the "news" they want and there's no shortage of polished-appearing hogwash that can be very convincing. It's probably some influencer shared to her on youtube. Again, quite maddening as she might kill herself out of willful ignorance and honestly the more I try to convince her with actual information the more she digs her heels in.

[MathOfInsects]

The overarching concept for the element that inspires fear is "hidden agency." People don't see or know how these things work, and this lack of knowledge generally inspires suspicion instead of curiosity. It's the same suspicion many of our brethren hold for computer-generated music without visible finger-to-sound motions. Nevermind that most of the sounds our fingers make are also computer-generated; we like to see the agency.

 

Because people are suspicious, they grab on to any element they CAN get their head around, which is usually any single thing that might be "wrong" or off-script. They already have a bed made for that particular guest, so they recognize it when it shows up. "AHA! I knew the vaccine wasn't safe!" But in fact, every step, from identifying a potential .00001 event, to pausing the entire distribution because of it, to examining it critically to see if it's even an actual thing, to continuing to help as many people as possible along the way, SHOULD be a tale of reassurance that no one is being thrown to the wolves. But when you fear wolves, every sound becomes one.

[wineandkeyz]

I got my first stick (Pfizer) on 3/25, which was also when the pollen machine here in NC kicked into high gear. Between my allergies and the shot, I was laid low for about a day and a half -- chills, fatigue, slight fever. I go for the second on 4/22, two days before my band plays at The Windjammer in Isle of Palms, SC. I'm hoping my reaction won't be quite as bad this time, but I'm a little concerned about how much energy I'll have for the show.

 

In a sobering coincidence, we also played The Windjammer last fall. After soundcheck that day, I checked my FB page and read the news about Brother BluesKeys's passing. Total gut punch. So it will be a bit bittersweet to return to the venue where I heard the news. On top of that, the following week we play at Duck's Night Life in Myrtle Beach, which is where Jimmy played his last gig. Not sure how I'll process that when I get there.

[ajstan]

Blood clot risk no higher in J&J vaccine recipients than that of the general population, experts say

https://abc7news.com/covid-19-vaccine-side-effects-cdc/10512795/

 

Blood clots as prevalent with Pfizer and Moderna vaccine as with AstraZeneca's: study

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/blood-clots-as-prevalent-with-pfizer-and-moderna-vaccine-as-with-astrazenecas-report-2021-04-15

[Reezekeys]

I do like the one and done methodology of J&J, although I thought that I read somewhere that it is not as effective as the others. Hoping that is not the case.

Efficacy is misunderstood. It's not as simple as a single number. This is a very enlightening video to watch:

 

[video:youtube]

[Docbop]

Just got my 2nd Modera jab so will take it easy today just to see how things go. I planned ahead and got a good workout at the gym yesterday so skip a day won't matter. This time the parking was way more crowded because a second medical group is now using out local fairgrounds as well as my medical group. Once in the building it was was even more organized than when I got my first jab. My doctor had flagged me for a video one on one after the shot. That ended up just cleaning up my medical record and a reminder about some past due lab work. So got two things done at once.

 

So if I grow another body part or start getting 5G calls without my phone I'll post an update.

[eric]

I had my second Pfizer shot today and was encouraged by one of my daughters in health care to start popping Tylenol and Advil, rotating every four hours. Apparently there are more side effects documented from second doses and this may help mitigate feeling like crap tomorrow, or so I hope!

 

It's nice to have the full dosage complete. Not like I'm going to run out and be completely normal like pre-Covid, though it provides some peace of mind to see more people that have been vaccinated (like older parents and family members).

[Reezekeys]

I had my second Pfizer shot today and was encouraged by one of my daughters in health care to start popping Tylenol and Advil, rotating every four hours. Apparently there are more side effects documented from second doses and this may help mitigate feeling like crap tomorrow, or so I hope!

I am not doctor but two things - I would think you'd pop those pills as needed - not preemptively. Also, my sister-in-law, a nurse, told me "if you develop a fever or soreness, do not take ibuprofen, do take acetaminophen. The former can suppress the immune system, which you want to be kicking in now, making those antibodies."

 

I had my second Moderna shot Tuesday, and yesterday I felt like I was in a fog and kind of weak, almost like the tail end of recovering from a flu. I had to lie down a few times during the day. At no time did I have a headache or feel feverish, or had any symptoms that might require a pill. My arm is definitely sore at the injection site - a little more so than after the first shot, but still nothing worth popping a pill over.

[stoken6]

acetaminophen

This is a public health announcement: acetaminophen is known as paracetamol in other parts of the world. That concludes this public health announcement.

 

(By coincidence, I was listening to a podcast on this very topic earlier today).

 

Cheers, Mike.

[El Lobo]

Thanks for the public health announcement. This is something I've run into frequently in my travels.

[Reezekeys]

Thanks for pointing that out Mike! I remember now, from my trips to your side of the pond.

[o0Ampy0o]

Everything I have read or heard from doctors has been consistent in that you should not mix different NSAIDs and Tylenol in a 24 hour period. You pick the most appropriate and effective one and use that one. I know they tend to advise in the simplest manner because people don't comprehend the same sentence unanimously. For instance, Extra Strength Excedrine and Excedrine Migraine are the same product but each targets a different condition. To avoid misuse they bottle the same thing under different names so each can have the directions that suit the separate targets. So with regards to mix and match meds some conflict and some lead to ending up with too much med in your system. I am not a doctor. Just sharing info to be aware of and research.

[Docbop]

Just got my 2nd Modera jab so will take it easy today just to see how things go. I planned ahead and got a good workout at the gym yesterday so skip a day won't matter. This time the parking was way more crowded because a second medical group is now using out local fairgrounds as well as my medical group. Once in the building it was was even more organized than when I got my first jab. My doctor had flagged me for a video one on one after the shot. That ended up just cleaning up my medical record and a reminder about some past due lab work. So got two things done at once.

 

So if I grow another body part or start getting 5G calls without my phone I'll post an update.

Everything I have read or heard from doctors has been consistent in that you should not mix different NSAIDs and Tylenol in a 24 hour period. You pick the most appropriate and effective one and use that one. I know they tend to advise in the simplest manner because people don't comprehend the same sentence unanimously. For instance, Extra Strength Excedrine and Excedrine Migraine are the same product but each targets a different condition. To avoid misuse they bottle the same thing under different names so each can have the directions that suit the separate targets. So with regards to mix and match meds some conflict and some lead to ending up with too much med in your system. I am not a doctor. Just sharing info to be aware of and research.

 

 

I take blood thinners so I am limited on what OTC drugs I can take for all sorts of issues, so for me it Tylenol (acetaminophen) and that's it. Tylenol doesn't work that well for me, but it's better than nothing. There is another blood thinner my doctor has recommended that plays nice with most OTC drugs, but it has to be taken twice a day and I'm such a space cadet I know I will forget the second dose all the time.

[Muad’Dib]

Got my first does of the Maderna Vaccine.

[drohm]

Just received my first dose of Pfizer. Finally, all those strange time signatures make sense

[o0Ampy0o]

PLEASE NOTE: My last post warning of combined NSAIDs, I was using my tiny iPhone 6 and quoted the wrong post. My post was a response spring boarded off eric's post referencing Advil snd Tylenol but I initially had Docbob's post quoted. Rather than try to replace it once I saw the mistake I just went with a straight post deleting any quoted text. But in the meantime my original post was quoted by Docbob and that captured my error. Sorry Docbob and anyone who might have been wondering about the relevance of my words.

[Adan]

My medical advice would be to not take medical advice from a bunch of keyboard players (except possibly the ones that also happen to be health care providers).

[ksoper]

My medical advice would be to not take medical advice from a bunch of keyboard players (except possibly the ones that also happen to be health care providers).

 

[Docbop]

My medical advice would be to not take medical advice from a bunch of keyboard players (except possibly the ones that also happen to be health care providers).

 

Always go with the old road dog musician/roadie cure for everything. A fifth of liquor du jour and as many blankets as you can find. Drink as much as you can, then wrap up in all the blankets and sweat it out and sleep until time to go to the next gig. The show must go on.

 

I remember one night at the Whiskey I think it was the Robbs, they later opened the now famous Cherokee Studios. They had a two or three horn players and I think the trumpet player was nicknamed "Tubby". They go on and Tubby is sick as a dog pale and sweating. So after set back up in the dressing room area Tubby is on the couch. Every person upstairs is giving Tubby everything you can imagine to drink, smoke, or pills to help Tubby. Last set rolls around they practically carry Tubby to the stage and prop him up against the B3 (see it is keyboard related story). Tubby can barely stand and can barely play his trumpet. For grins it came to the tune Tubby had a solo on. Tubby eyes just glazed over they yell take Tubby and he barely bleeped out about three notes and looked like he wanted to die. But hey the show did go on. Tubby was out the night sleeping off whatever illness he had and all the booze, pills, and all he smoked. He returned the third night not in great shape, but made it thru the night.

 

Aw the road dawg musician/roadie life.

[o0Ampy0o]

My medical advice would be to not take medical advice from a bunch of keyboard players (except possibly the ones that also happen to be health care providers).

My advice is don't take my advice. <= Everyone should ignore your advice.

vs.

My advice is don't take my medical advice. <= Everyone should ignore your medical advice.

 

[Stokely]

My medical advice would be to not take medical advice from a bunch of keyboard players (except possibly the ones that also happen to be health care providers).

 

Always go with the old road dog musician/roadie cure for everything. A fifth of liquor du jour and as many blankets as you can find. Drink as much as you can, then wrap up in all the blankets and sweat it out and sleep until time to go to the next gig. The show must go on.

 

 

I remember in college I was sick as a dog, and our band had a show at our favorite (really ratty, rundown but hopping) joint. Our sound guy said, here's what you do: mix up some Southern Comfort and lemon juice, that'll knock it right out of you. So I did and proceeded to drink it throughout the show. It definitely knocked something out, and let's just say I felt quite a bit sicker the next day. Never had a taste for Southern Comfort after that (or before or during honestly). This was in Tennessee which makes perfect sense....

[eric]

Sounds like my post triggered some unintended stuff about what meds to take after a vaccine shot. Sorry about that. Everyone feel free to do what works best for you and don't take any of these threads as medical advice.

[Joe Muscara]

So many posts, so little timeâ¦

 

Yes, I'm in the two-shot study for J&J, it's called Ensemble 2 (their first study testing one shot was called, you guessed it, Ensemble). I was unblinded last Wednesday and found out that the two shots I received were NOT placebo but the actual vaccine. So I'm fully vaccinated since my second shot was back on 16 March.

 

A lot of people including experts think that pausing on the J&J shot was a really bad idea. For one, the percentages of clotting was lower than for The Pill. For two, it's really bad perception. For instance, I was talking with one of my contractors the other day, he got the Pfizer earlier that day and because of the J&J pause, he was considering not getting his shot after all. He knew they were completely different shots, but he was still concerned about it. Fortunately since his wife was getting it at the same time they both still got it. But how many others won't get any shot now because of the pause? "See? I told you this was rushed and not safe!" When he found out I got the J&J (I didn't bother to tell him about the two shot study), he practically gasped. I told him it was fine and the percentages were really low.

 

I'm really looking forward to the results of the study I'm in. It's possible that with two shots J&J might be closer to the efficacy of the mRNA vaccines, or last longer than one shot.

 

BTW RABid the bar for FDA to approve vaccines is 50% efficacy. Others have shared why J&J is still a great vaccine and what that percentage actually means. Like the others, it seems to completely eliminate severe or fatal reactions to the virus. Another thing to remember is that J&J was tested against different populations and thus different mutations of the virus. It's possible the mRNA vaccines might see their efficacy drop against those variants as well.

[ProfD]

Sounds like my post triggered some unintended stuff about what meds to take after a vaccine shot. Sorry about that. Everyone feel free to do what works best for you and don't take any of these threads as medical advice.

 

Brotha Eric, no apology required as your post was well intentioned and based on information received from someone you trust who actually works in healthcare.

 

Folks ultimately have to do whatever works for them but there's no reason to throw shade at someone trying to be helpful.

[Threadslayer]

It definitely knocked something out, and let's just say I felt quite a bit sicker the next day.

Hence the nickname Sudden Discomfort.

[vonnor]

Since the gentleman of sometimes arguable integrity, Mr. Northam, has decreed that the vaccine may now be administered to those between ages 16 and 65 (and I am no where near the median of that group), I am all set to join team Moderna this Friday with poke number one.

 

Any of you guys who absorbed some Moderna juice, was there any weirdness to the experience that I should be aware of?

 

~ vonnor

[Docbop]

Since the gentleman of sometimes arguable integrity, Mr. Northam, has decreed that the vaccine may now be administered to those between ages 16 and 65 (and I am no where near the median of that group), I am all set to join team Moderna this Friday with poke number one.

 

Any of you guys who absorbed some Moderna juice, was there any weirdness to the experience that I should be aware of?

 

~ vonnor

 

I just had my 2nd Moderna jab last thursday. So first jab I was kind of tired for a few days, some mild headaches and the sore arm if pressed against. After that all smooth sailing and 2nd jab was 5 weeks later. That one kind kicked my butt for a day and a half. Mild headache, some upset stomach, and tired. I knew from first jab to just nap and after that feel great and arm only mild soreness this time, but I did get it in my other arm. So I'm happy with the Modera process as they say it beats the alternative.

[vonnor]

Thanks Db.