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Yamaha YC88 and YC73


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There is only one good solution; run your clone thru a real Leslie :-)

....especially if you are like most folks here who are not at all concerned about schlepping their own gear to gigs. :D;)

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing."

- George Bernard Shaw

 

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What if you're running a "clone-plus" like these Yamaha YCs? You either run non-organs into a Leslie (not ideal), or you bring a second amp and maybe a A/B/Y pedal to switch between them. And then forget to switch from the Leslie for the tender AP+strings ballad.

 

At least if Yamaha offered a split-mono assignable out option, you could add a Vent. That's not difficult (unlike designing a convincing Leslie sim).

 

Cheers, Mike.

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At least if Yamaha offered a split-mono assignable out option, you could add a Vent. That's not difficult (unlike designing a convincing Leslie sim).

 

I am really perplexed why Yamaha didn't include this feature in the 1.1 firmware update. It received broad support on IdeaScale and, while I'm not an expert in firmware programming, it seems like it would have been a really easy thing to do to tide people over until an improved rotary sim can be released. There were many other great ideas that have been up there for months that could have been added as well. As I said in a post elsewhere, I think IdeaScale is like the close door button on an elevator...it's there for strictly psychological reasons. I now wonder if Yamaha plans to fix the rotary...ever.

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I'd be very wary of buying something and then hoping for an update. I've done it before with other electronic items and it never happened. The manufacturer will just move on and release a different keyboard and forget the old models. I still love my mini reface YC and CP and just accepted at time of purchase that yamaha wouldn't be updating the YC's shortcomings. Namely the chorus/vibrato.
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At least if Yamaha offered a split-mono assignable out option, you could add a Vent. That's not difficult (unlike designing a convincing Leslie sim).

 

I am really perplexed why Yamaha didn't include this feature in the 1.1 firmware update. It received broad support on IdeaScale and, while I'm not an expert in firmware programming, it seems like it would have been a really easy thing to do to tide people over until an improved rotary sim can be released.

If I had to guess as to why it might not be so easy... there could be a complication of what happens to sounds you have put stereo effects on. They need to either program those effects to work in mono when the split-mono option is selected, or include a caveat that certain effects won't work when you choose that option... and if a lot of the effects are stereo, and so much of the board's front panel is about effects, telling people they can't use a lot of them may have been a path they were not eager to take. Just a guess, though. Maybe they just didn't think it was as worthwhile as we think it is.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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If I had to guess as to why it might not be so easy... there could be a complication of what happens to sounds you have put stereo effects on. They need to either program those effects to work in mono when the split-mono option is selected, or include a caveat that certain effects won't work when you choose that option... and if a lot of the effects are stereo, and so much of the board's front panel is about effects, telling people they can't use a lot of them may have been a path they were not eager to take. Just a guess, though. Maybe they just didn't think it was as worthwhile as we think it is.

Not to mention that reverb and looper delay, both of them stereo effects, sit after the Leslie in the signal path and can be applied to all three sections at once. So you would have to either give them up, or introduce a whole separate bus with its own reverb and looper. Which may require more processing power than the YC is capable of.

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Well, if there were an option to send organ out by itself (one side, in mono), I'd be okay with the rotary not being available in that mode, since the purpose of sending organ out by itself would probably be to send the organ into either a real Leslie or a Vent-style sim. Though yes, if they wanted a truly flexible split-mono implementation, you'd want the option to send (for example) left hand bass out one side, and your other sounds--including organ with rotary--out the other. But even a simple one-option split mode which only did organ to one side and everything else to the other (which is all the Nord Electro 6 has) would still be valuable, and avoids the rotary complication.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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From Yamaha -

' Designed for gigging keyboardists, the YC Series features a newly designed Virtual Circuitry Modeling (VCM) Organ engine with physical drawbars, extensive real-time control and authentic Acoustic/Electric Piano and FM synth sound. With three models to choose from, there"s a YC stage keyboard for every stage and every player.

 

For a limited time, purchase a YC Series stage keyboard and get a free FC5 and FC7 foot pedal.'

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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From Yamaha -

' Designed for gigging keyboardists, the YC Series features a newly designed Virtual Circuitry Modeling (VCM) Organ engine with physical drawbars, extensive real-time control and authentic Acoustic/Electric Piano and FM synth sound. With three models to choose from, there"s a YC stage keyboard for every stage and every player.

 

For a limited time, purchase a YC Series stage keyboard and get a free FC5 and FC7 foot pedal.'

 

Hmmm desperate to sell some stock already?

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Are there any piano differences between the CP and YC such as resonance, damper pedaling, etc? If not, then the main difference between the YC and CP is the organ section available in the YC, which Yamaha mentions in their NAMM videos this week.
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Are there any piano differences between the CP and YC such as resonance, damper pedaling, etc? If not, then the main difference between the YC and CP is the organ section available in the YC, which Yamaha mentions in their NAMM videos this week.

I don't think the CP pianos have any more features, but I think they do have additional sample sets. Unless I'm mistaken, the Bosendorfer, at least, is in the CP and not the YC.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Are there any piano differences between the CP and YC such as resonance, damper pedaling, etc? If not, then the main difference between the YC and CP is the organ section available in the YC, which Yamaha mentions in their NAMM videos this week.

I don't think the CP pianos have any more features, but I think they do have additional sample sets. Unless I'm mistaken, the Bosendorfer, at least, is in the CP and not the YC.

 

The missing pianos are:

 

SU7 Upright

Bosendorfer Imperial

CF3

 

Assuming it has the same size memory as the CP73/88 (2Gb) I reckon these will be added in the next few months.

 

YC61 has more Effect Types, Speaker/Amps and an Insertion Effect as well as more synth parameters eg Mono/Poly and Portamento. If I was gigging I'd be looking at swapping for a YC73 and running the B-3X for organ. But the difference in price is too much.

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Assuming it has the same size memory as the CP73/88 (2Gb) I reckon these will be added in the next few months.

Maybe, but I wouldn't count on it. There's no obvious reason to have not included them already. So it's possible that they are keeping the larger piano selection exclusive to the more piano-focussed CP for further product differentiation, and/or may add more other kinds of sounds to the YC instead.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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For a limited time, purchase a YC Series stage keyboard and get a free FC5 and FC7 foot pedal.'

 

This adds up to about $60 worth of free pedals.

 

I'm surprised Blake didn't mention the Master EQ, which seems to be a critical feature for would-be live players. The demo of the looper though was pretty cool.

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  • 2 months later...
Are there any piano differences between the CP and YC such as resonance, damper pedaling, etc? If not, then the main difference between the YC and CP is the organ section available in the YC

I don't think the CP pianos have any more features, but I think they do have additional sample sets. Unless I'm mistaken, the Bosendorfer, at least, is in the CP and not the YC.

 

The missing pianos are:

 

SU7 Upright

Bosendorfer Imperial

CF3

 

...

 

YC61 has more Effect Types, Speaker/Amps and an Insertion Effect as well as more synth parameters eg Mono/Poly and Portamento.

Another difference is that the YC has an FM engine, which is used, not just for the transistor organs, but for actual FM EPs along with basses, synth leads, bell sounds, harmonica, brass, strings, guitar. It's another sound character that the CP doesn't have. (And I think the FM sounds have their own additional polyphony.)

 

ETA: Also, the YC lets you selectively play its sounds from an external controller, the CP doesn't have that. (Though admittedly, that's probably of higher value when your board is a source of both piano and organ sounds.)

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Having addressed above that there are many ways the YC exceeds the CP (besides just adding the drawbar organ), I thought I'd balance that with some more thoughts about how the cheaper CP still has its advantages... besides the extra piano sounds and ability to split/layer 3 non-organ sounds as mentioned above (albeit from a smaller selection of total sounds), the interface is more direct. And that can be significant since direct interface is so much of the appeal of these boards in the first place.

 

For example, on the YC, all your non-organ sounds are selectable from 4 categories: piano, EP, synth, and other, which leads to a lot of scrolling. The CP gives you direct access instead to 11 non-organ categories (Grand, Upright, CP, Layered pianos, Rhodes, Wurlis, Clavs, DX eps, pad/strings, chromatic perc, others), which means there's a lot less scrolling to get to the sound you want. The YC does have shortcuts to jump to sub-categories within its major categories, but it's not as obvious/intuitive or as quick as the front panel knobs.

 

On the CP, you can glance at the panel and see/access every setting simultaneously. On the YC, you can't see everything at once... you activate the A section to get to the A settings, then you can switch to the B section to get to the B settings.

 

On the CP, you see the name of each effect that you can choose from, and can see "where you are" relative to "where you want to be"; on the YC you scroll through some vague number of cryptic 2-character abbreviations.

 

The CP has Attack and Release knobs, the YC has a single EG/Filter knob, which provides more options, but whose use is not so intuitive.

 

All of those largely come down to the fact that, to fit all the organ and other new controls on the YC, the piano+other controls had to be ganged up and consolidated. Meaning that the CP is a bit more immediate and simple in its operation, while the YC is deeper, but not as immediately clear.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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I just bought the YC 61 to use either as a second top board on top of an 88 key weighted action board underneath or as a stand alone board for practice and limited gigging. As someone who has never been great at navigating Yamaha's OS, starting with my heavy but trusty S-90 which I gigged with for years, based on my first two weeks with the board, I agree with your comments that the OS is not as simple as Yamaha represents it to be. I have been Midi-ing my YC 61 to my Casio PX-560 and having fun with that. The electric pianos seem to come alive when played on the Casio much more than when I play them on the YC 61. Same with the pianos. This may sound like a minor gripe but the violin and banjo are not very good on the YC 61. Why do I care? Because I play in a band where I occasionally have to play country and having a convincing synth fiddle or banjo is helpful. My Roland VR-09 has a better fiddle and probably has a better Leslie but the VR-09 has terrible pianos and weak electric pianos.. At the end of the day, I bought the board because it does organ, piano and electric piano pretty good. Its brass and strings are also pretty good. Since I rarely play in bands where I need an ARP 2600 or Mini Moog to get through a gig, the synth section is also fine. I am hoping over time I learn to work the board and learn the operating system so I don't have to think about it. We'll see. I debated getting the 88 key version of the board and decided that the synth action would be better for organ although the key bed does not play like a Hammond at all. You have to get used to it.
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I also took delivery of a YC61 yesterday and so have only spent a couple of hours with it. Initial impression is it's going to be an excellent part of my cover band rig. The interface seems intuitive to me BUT I think that's only because I used to own a Nord Electro and had to get my head around that approach. Owning a MODX7, the YC61 doesn't have much in comparison as far as Synth stuff but enough for it to be a solid second board. My main reason was to have something half-decent for organ and for my covers band the YC61 will be more than good enough - it's certainly got better organ chops than the MODX, although that's a low bar :D (that said I actually don't mind the MODX organ).
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  • 1 month later...
Is anyone using the Yamaha music rest (YMR-04) with their YC73/88...or their CP? If so, is it a good spot for an IPad/Surface? Looks like it would be perfect for that. Thinking about swapping out my YC61 for a 73. The extra 12 keys would give me the real estate I need to make this a light weight one keyboard solution integrated with a Surface/Cantabile-based set-up.
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Is anyone using the Yamaha music rest (YMR-04) with their YC73/88...or their CP? If so, is it a good spot for an IPad/Surface? Looks like it would be perfect for that. Thinking about swapping out my YC61 for a 73. The extra 12 keys will would me the real estate I need to make this a light weight one keyboard solution integrated with a Surface/Cantabile-based set-up.

 

I'm using YMR-04 w/ YC88 currently. It's a lil more plastic & wobbly than I thought it'd be, but setting an iPad on it stops the wobbling. Overall, I'm happy with it & don't feel dual iPads (when using ForScore) are going to tumble.

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  • 1 month later...
Dave, I 'don"t do organ,' either, but am I glad I have it now. Yesterday at a literally hot (and sweaty) jazz gig, the audience was going wild with the layered B3 under, then over, the AP or Rhodes, smearing up to the fast Leslie chord at the end of Little Sunflower, and laying some vibrato organ under the sax on some fast standards. I"ve never seen such an enthusiastic bunch at a jazz gig. It"s a whole new world, and so easy to do on this board.
CA93, MODX8, YC88, K8.2
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quote=Dave Ferris]So within three minutes I was sold, except for one thing-- I don't do organ. I'm paying $500 more for something I'll never use./quote]

The price difference does give you some other benefits besides just organ. There's also more "other" sounds, and related, the FM engine (which is used for the transistor organ sounds but also a whole bunch of other sounds, including FM basses, synth leads, bell sounds, harmonica, brass, strings, guitar, and of course, EPs). YC also has a lot more options in terms of effects and amp emulations, and it can do mono lead line synths with portamento. It also adds the ability to play one of its sound internally while playing another externally. Not that you neccesarrily need any of those other things, either. ;-) I actually prefer the operational ergonomics of the CP88 over the YC88, plus it also has some additional piano sounds.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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For our purposes of schlepping a CP88 or CP4 the headphones or whatever they monitor with in the shop aren"t going to tell us what we ultimately need to know. It helps to bring your QSC, or EV monitor(s) with or ask if they can pull one from the live sound room to give it a go. Unfortunately, with shops not always having what we want to try, or being too far away from a shop - buy to try is often the only way.

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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