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Hey Marzzz.
No way I can stop using the Physis, it's too great for live performance, but I always wanted a VAX77.
I kicked in at KS after I saw your post.

In Nashville through 2015 then back to Vegas.
I don't like Snow, or Manager/father/boyfriend types.
Side gig makes the pain go away though.

We shall watch and wait together again 'eh..?


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Revisiting this thread, as I'm considering a K4/K5; EX option, possibly. After reviewing some of the recent posts and videos, I'm inclined to agree with hardware on this one; seems this dog will indeed hunt. It's easy to see a K4/K5 being the 'command central' of a rig, or rather, various rigs. Once the setting up part is done, it appears fairly easy to just swap devices in and out as needed. This could be a great 'lower 88' for controlling sounds in my Kronos 61, or even swapping in various modules, or laptop/iPad if needed. And having the MIDI inputs capable of being routed to any of the eight MIDI Outs is a huge plus - allowing for a complete control matrix that can include two additional keyboards.

I downloaded the manual earlier in the week, and have been studying it. So far, my positive inclinations are being confirmed.


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There's much more than the manual indicates too, such as preferences, and also check out the updated firmware and what has been added.
I am doing all hardware FX and lights now.

Such an incredible Master MIDI Controller allows me to expand on my former limitations, which actually were never mine to begin with.

Truly an excellent piece of kit to make a performer more "valuable" all while being able to enjoy yourself more thanks to it's insane ease of use.


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I've just turned in a review of the board to Keyboard for an upcoming issue. Stay tuned...

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Thanks!


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Originally Posted By: jerrythek
I've just turned in a review of the board to Keyboard for an upcoming issue. Stay tuned...


Looking forward to that..!

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Originally Posted By: jerrythek
I've just turned in a review of the board to Keyboard for an upcoming issue. Stay tuned...


thu


"Someday, we'll look back on these days and laugh; likely a maniacal laugh from our padded cells, but a laugh nonetheless" - Mr. Boffo.

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Questions to all Physis piano users , be it K series (with or without EX) or H series:

- what is the boot-up time of the instruments ?? I heard it is like a Kronos above 1 1/2 minute. Is that true ? Also for the pure controller K4 /K5 boards ?

- How's the responsiveness of the K4/K5 system ? Does it switch immediately and seamlessly from preset to preset , or is there a certain lag noticeable (deadly in a live situation).

- Will parameter jumps be smoothed out between presets , so no sudden cut-offs of jumps when you go to the next setup ?

- How's the keybed. For the K4 it's the Tp40L , same as in most Kurzweil's etc. Is it a nice compromise for piano AND synth and organ style playing and the repetition fast enough ?

Curious -> want to buy one, but it has to come from far and can't return it, so it better work without flaws or annoyances as described above.

Thanks ! J

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Originally Posted By: JFP
...

- what is the boot-up time of the instruments ?? I heard it is like a Kronos above 1 1/2 minute. ....


Around 2 minutes and 10 seconds. But my assumtion is the more files that are set to autoload will increase your boot time.

Last edited by CEB; 05/13/15 06:41 PM.

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Thanks . That is 2 minutes for the ...? K4 , K4 EX , Kronos ?

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Originally Posted By: JFP
Questions to all Physis piano users , be it K series (with or without EX) or H series:

- How's the responsiveness of the K4/K5 system ? Does it switch immediately and seamlessly from preset to preset , or is there a certain lag noticeable (deadly in a live situation).

- Will parameter jumps be smoothed out between presets , so no sudden cut-offs of jumps when you go to the next setup ?

- How's the keybed. For the K4 it's the Tp40L , same as in most Kurzweil's etc. Is it a nice compromise for piano AND synth and organ style playing and the repetition fast enough ?

Curious -> want to buy one, but it has to come from far and can't return it, so it better work without flaws or annoyances as described above.

Thanks ! J


I can't get "ahead" of my printed review (Edit:whoops - my issue just arrived here today after writing this), but I didn't really mention this in the review... the sounds do take some short time to load in (since it's DSP based), so there is a clear cutoff of sound when changing. No "patch remain", or "SST" is available for the internal sound engine. So you have to make a clear decision when to change your sounds, lifting any sustaining notes off.

But testing the Kronos now triggering it from an external controller the SST works, so I might guess that this issue is up to your receiving devices connected to it.

I liked the key feel, but being weighted it's not much fun trying to play organ on it. I prefer a non-weighted keyboard for that (smears, machine-gun repeated notes etc.)

Regards,

Jerry

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I was actually surprised to read your acoustic piano review. All that I had previously read indicated they spent alot of time getting it right. Apparently this is not the case. You had mentioned a metallic artifact that couldn't be dialed out. I know that sound and it would drive me crazy. The other piece was the several promises of future features coming. It's not like the keyboard was just released, I believe it actually has been out over a year. Those promises typically diminish over time especially if sales quantities aren't as forecasted so I'm guessing alot of those promised future features may not come to fruition. Also, it is a little expensive for what it delivers, mainly being a controller k/b, and with the EX features the price is in Kronos territory. The other thing that I noticed is that the EX features cost $1000 on the 88 and only $900 on the 76. I'm not sure how they justify an additional $100 for the same EX features on the 88 key. I guess the search for the next keyboard continues...


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Originally Posted By: jerrythek
the sounds do take some short time to load in (since it's DSP based)


Can you elaborate on this, please?
How much time are we talking, and why does the DSP influence this?

Cheers,
James
x


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Originally Posted By: Delaware Dave
I was actually surprised to read your acoustic piano review. All that I had previously read indicated they spent alot of time getting it right. Apparently this is not the case. You had mentioned a metallic artifact that couldn't be dialed out. I know that sound and it would drive me crazy.


I know, considering they make/sell dedicated home pianos based on the engine. But I couldn't "make friends" with it. I will say this (which is why I was hopeful for them in the review); Pianoteq 1-3 struck me the same way. Interesting science but a result that I disliked. They have kept at it and have developed into a pretty amazing instrument. No reason Viscount couldn't do the same.

Originally Posted By: Delaware Dave
The other piece was the several promises of future features coming. It's not like the keyboard was just released, I believe it actually has been out over a year. Those promises typically diminish over time especially if sales quantities aren't as forecasted so I'm guessing alot of those promised future features may not come to fruition.


I wouldn't take such a pessimistic view. A number of the things I discussed with them are already in development, just not ready for release. Time will tell, of course, but I'm willing to take them at their word until they actually fail to deliver. But you buy an instrument for what it is, not based on future promises. If it doesn't do what you need right now then wait and see.

Regards,

Jerry

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Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Originally Posted By: jerrythek
the sounds do take some short time to load in (since it's DSP based)


Can you elaborate on this, please?
How much time are we talking, and why does the DSP influence this?

Cheers,
James
x


I didn't actually time it, but I would guesstimate it took a sound 10+ seconds to load in/be ready to fully speak. So no way could you keep holding any notes and change sounds. First off, the sound shuts off. Second, it wakes up in stages (perhaps the main sound and then the effects).

Why does DSP affect this? Because it is reloading code into the DSP chips every time you call up a sound. Both the "engine" that makes the sound, and then the effects algorithms. Is that clearer?

regards,

Jerry

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Thank you Jerry.

The sounds are fully modelled, is that correct (i.e. there are no samples being loaded into memory)?

10+ seconds does seem like a rather long time to load and execute programme code, however I obviously have no knowledge of the amount of data required to create the sound.

Are the loading times still there when switching between the same type of sound (e.g. two acoustic pianos, which I assume use similar algorithms)?

Cheers,
James
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My time estimate may be off, but it is noticeable and gets in the way of trying to get close to smooth sound switching.

Unfortunately it always seems to load, there's no intelligence regarding the same model, effect etc. Maybe that's something they could rework for the future.

And yes, no samples... all modeling.

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And how about switching setups , sounds , preset, or whatever they call a performance setup on the K4 when there is NO internal engine involved ? E.g. like switching setups on a bare K4 (no EX) . Is that fast and seamless ? And will notes be cut-off on your external (software-) synth or parameters changed abruptly , or is everything smoothed out and intelligently being processed ?

That there is a gap for internal sounds is now clear. But when you use the Physis purely as a controller you don't want any delays , gaps , or parameter jumps either. Is that all OK with the K series ??

O yes - and again - the boot-up time of the keyboard. If there is a difference between EX and non-ex version that is also interesting to know (can imagine EX version takes longer ?)

Thanks for the info. Seems a great controller board. Just try to filter out the 'catches' on this machine so it won't dissappoint for live performance.

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In any situation with a MIDI controller changing setups it is the receiving device that determines smooth transitions. If it doesn't have "patch remain" or "SST" then it can't happen. There is nothing the controller can do to make that possible. So it depends on what hardware/software you are using... not the Physis in this case.

Except if the controller issues "All Notes Off", all controllers reset" commands when changing it's setups, which could override the receiving devices ability to smoothly change. To be honest I did not check that out. Sorry.

Jerry



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Originally Posted By: JFP
O yes - and again - the boot-up time of the keyboard.


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Some controllers with a balanced hammer keybed are quite noisy due to the hammer action (like the Akai MPK88), and I was wondering how much noise the keybed of the K4 makes.

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I have been using the K4 live since 1/2015 and consider it the very best controller I ever had.
Beats the MC 3000 as far as semi weighted action is concerned.
I use MIDI only though as I just never liked built in sounds.
Controlling the PianoTeq Pro 5, PLAY, Kontakt, Zebra 2 and Bazille, Scope Modular IV, Behringer X32, DMX Lighting, audio clips, video clips, hardware FX units x 3, and a pair of Studio Electronics SE-1Xs.
If you want to know anything about it as far MIDI and live performance goes, I can answer any questions.
But I am biased though, since it is what I consider the best controller you can buy for stage or pre production work.
FOH guys only need an Android tablet or iPad to control levels
wirelessly from out front.
I handle all of the technical chores and ques.


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Hello @all,

I've been using the K4 EX since its very beginning / release and doing demo shows over here in Germany/Europe.
Jerry already answered all questions though...

If US-based people need further info and/or want to get the hands on a K4/K5, feel free to contact:

Gary Girouard
garyg@physispiano.com

Director (North America)
Galileo Digitals | Physis Piano | Viscount Organs

Cheers
Robert


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Physis Piano K5 EX controller arrived this week. i have to say it's a great keyboard with some defects that, in the other hand, have most of the keyboards i tried.

The color display is very clear and vivid.

The EX Physis piano sounds are really organic when you play it. You feel different things with a sampled based piano. Sure they would have to improve the dynamics on the hi register notes, the overall harmonics and different mic placement to choose too... and to give you a computer editor option to tweek the sounds, like the other Physis.

Editing is the main reason to buy a modeled piano, why they don't make the editor available for the EX?

Rhodes are fantastic in the mid and low zone, lifeless on the upper keys (i had to give bite with the amp and eq). My 73 sounded more agressive on the hi keys. On the Physis, Lo keys sounds very expressive, the bark is a little synthetic but i like it a lot.😀

Icould't found a clav WHA preset...( yeah, i can program it )

The sound cuts when you change presets😡

The keyboard touch is great but you can't retrigger a key from a pressed key, three sensor would be mandatory on a 1800 controller. Aftertouch is a plus.

Computer editor would help you a lot to configure the banks,CCs and Performances, and sample pads would be welcome.

Anyway it seems a great keyboard, HX3 is coming next week and i'll review the sliders and knobs deeply. I'm supporting this brave idea buying it, i hope they improve the use with the editor and the overall sound and note by note editing.


Juanjo

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Hi all,

I'm reviving this older thread because it's probably best to keep info on these boards in one place since that's been done pretty well so far. smile

I have a question to anyone who still has one of these. Is there a way to send multiple program changes from a single button on multiple midi channels? To illustrate, is it possible to have, say, three rack modules on their own midi channels and press one button on the Physis and change the patches on all of them to suit the next song? I'm realizing that's not something I can find easily on controllers and I really don't want to need to use an iPad or such to handle multiple program changes and midi data.

Thanks!


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Yes, it's an 8-zone controller, you can send separate Program Changes to 8 destinations at once.


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You can do this on your Kurzweil. I currently do this sending two program changes to Gemini module on two different midi channels, one for each DSP, and one to a MOTIF rack, so three in total with one button press. With the Kurz, you could theoretically, in a setup, have 16 zones all which are different midi channels and different programs. Conceptually it should work.


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Thank you both! My Hammer 88 Pro is 4-zone, but pads can only be assigned to one zone, or global with one midi channel or all midi channels active. So it can't do that.

Originally Posted by Delaware Dave
You can do this on your Kurzweil. I currently do this sending two program changes to Gemini module on two different midi channels, one for each DSP, and one to a MOTIF rack, so three in total with one button press. With the Kurz, you could theoretically, in a setup, have 16 zones all which are different midi channels and different programs. Conceptually it should work.
My Kurz is out of commission sadly as it got damaged in shipping; there's no service people in my state and I've waited 9 months on a repair man to have an opening to fix it. Hence why I'm not using it. I look forward to the day I can use it to its potential.

Last edited by Mighty Motif Max; 04/08/21 09:40 PM.

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Verified via the manual!

Quote
The control bank contains settings for knobs, sliders and buttons on the left side of the front panel, called CONTROLLERS section. Knobs can be rotated up to 360° degrees, without end, so as to allow continuous control of the assigned parameter.

...Slider cursors also allow continuous control of a parameter...they have an inverse mode, simulating, for example, electromagentic organ drawbars.

...Each of these control can send a maximum of 8 different messages at the same time, one for each Zone. Therefore, it is not necessary to define the output and MIDI channel for the control: the message acquires the channel and output from each Zone. Each of these 8 messages can also be assigned a minimum and maximum value. This way, each message can have its own value range, while keeping the same proportion. This is why the control value is expressed by percentage. It is also possible to use the controls in inverted mode, by setting the minimum value higher than the maximum.


...Each Scene has a maximum of 4 available banks, so that there are 108 programmable controls in total. To select the Control Bank, use the [BANK 1], [BANK 2], [BANK 3] and [BANK 4] controls, from the CONTROLLERS section on the front panel.

x four scenes per Performance x 128 Performances. This thing is impressive.


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In case anyone's wondering WHY these were discontinued, I talked with a dealer earlier today who called up Viscount and happened to find out. Apparently they were too expensive, both to make and too few were sold for it to be worthwhile for Viscount to continue making them. Sad. I guess that means we might never see a successor.


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