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I don't see it on Play Store, how did you find it? Thanks, Ken

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Originally Posted by Jr. Deluxe
The bad...when the app is open but in the background, the phone gets sluggish and almost locks up. So it's an organ module or a smartphone but not both at once. So I doubt I could have another keyboard app like a string machine or mellotron app running at the same time as vb3m.
It's Android... and even though Samsung has traditionally led the Android pack in MIDI, getting even just ONE program to behave about as well as it would on iOS is impressive enough! I would count myself lucky and wouldn't have either attempted to run a second MIDI app. (I'm not sure there would even be a good string machine/mellotron app to run with it anyway?)

Originally Posted by Jr. Deluxe
My korg nanokontrol bus powered up but didnt talk to the vb3m app. I was hopeful but not surprised. In windows drivers are required so it's not class compliant.
Hmmm. My impression was that the NanoKontrol is class compliant as a controller, and so the driver was probably only needed to be able to program it. I would have expected it to work. I wonder if there's some other reason it didn't work.


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https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.genuinesoundware.vb3m

It didn't seem to show up by searching for it, vb3m or vb3 organ. But there's a link from the gsi website.


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I have tried it on a OnePlus 3t and 8t.

The latency on both is noticeable but I could live with it because the sound is good. However my controller is a Yamaha Reface YC and the midi CC messages can't be edited. As commented elsewhere here, the app has no configuration settings for midi learning or manual mapping so for me it isn't playable in this condition.

Maybe it should have been released as a time limited demo before paying, so we could try it on our many different setups.

Hopefully there'll be some updates.


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Originally Posted by woodshedjones
However my controller is a Yamaha Reface YC and the midi CC messages can't be edited. As commented elsewhere here, the app has no configuration settings for midi learning or manual mapping so for me it isn't playable in this condition.
If you're sufficiently motivated, a MIDI Solutions Event Processor should let you convert the Reface YC's CCs to the ones VB3m wants. But it's $150. As mentioned earlier, on iOS, you could do it with an app, but I doubt that's an option on Android.

Getting back to the question of its usability on iOS if you intend to drive it from a clonewheel (i.e. a controller that typically does not have definable sliders), even if you add the cost of an app like Keystage (iPad only) or Midiflow (any iOS device), VB3m is still a pretty cheap high quality organ solution (and a lot less than B-3X, and runs on an iPhone). It's a one-time extra setup complication. Maybe the easiest solution would be for someone (even Guido perhaps) to provide a step-by-step of how to do it. I think the only question is whether this may unacceptably increase latency. I'm eager to hear the results of people who try it.

There's already detailed info available on setting up Keystage to use the VR-09 (sysex drawbars) to send CCs to B-3X. Using that info as a guide, you should be able to do the same to send the CCs VB3m needs from a VR09, and maybe even easier than that to use most other clones which already send some CC, negating the whole sysex complication.

And there are some boards with clonewheel engines that do allow you to define ther sliders to send whatever CCs you want... someone somewhere mentioned that the Korg CX3 did this (and of course, Kronos does)... also Numa Compact 2X, Kurzweil Artis 7... so this should be a pretty painless way to upgrade the organ engines in those boards.

I'm actually thinking that the lack of user presets could be at least as big of an issue as the lack of MIDI remapping. It would be nice if we could at least redefine the 16 factory presets to be whatever drawbar settings we wanted, and hopefully have them selectable via MIDI Program Change. As for workarounds, I think you could again use Keystage to create recallable songs that would essentially include "macros" of CC commands... e.g. you could create a Keystage preset/button that would, in turn, send out the 9 MIDI CC values for the 9 desired drawbar settings. Again, I'd be really curious to hear how/whether this works, from anyone up for trying it.


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Originally Posted by AnotherScott
Getting back to the question of its usability on iOS if you intend to drive it from a clonewheel (i.e. a controller that typically does not have definable sliders), even if you add the cost of an app like Keystage (iPad only) or Midiflow (any iOS device), VB3m is still a pretty cheap high quality organ solution (and a lot less than B-3X, and runs on an iPhone). It's a one-time extra setup complication. Maybe the easiest solution would be for someone (even Guido perhaps) to provide a step-by-step of how to do it. I think the only question is whether this may unacceptably increase latency. I'm eager to hear the results of people who try it.

Because you cannot select specific MIDI inputs which means VB3m is listening on all ports, you have to run it as an AUv3 if you want to send mapped MIDI. So for example, I am running it inside Sequencism using StreamByter to pick up Nord CCs and remap them to VB3m. That’s quite complicated but works fine and I have never found MIDI processing to add much latency either. Both Sequencism and StreamByter are free but a steep learning curve unless you are MIDI savvy.

Kudos for Guido making it AUv3 compatible but I am still hoping for mappable CCs as that should be relatively easy. Of course he may want you to buy his D9x controller instead wink

Last edited by ChazKeys; 04/06/21 05:40 PM.
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Originally Posted by ChazKeys
Because you cannot select specific MIDI inputs which means VB3m is listening on all ports, you have to run it as an AUv3 if you want to send mapped MIDI.
Hmmm... Why does listening on all ports interfere with sending mapped MIDI? If you're worried that it would be hearing "wrong" MIDI CCs in addition to the right (remapped) ones, odds are, those wrong CCs wouldn't do anything anyway, right? Unless they are coincidentally aligned with some other function. But even if that is indeed a problem, more than that, I think it should be a non-issue becaise while VB3m may listen on all ports, it only listens on channels 1, 2, and 3, which still gives you a way to differentiate what it hears from where. No?


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Originally Posted by AnotherScott
Originally Posted by ChazKeys
Because you cannot select specific MIDI inputs which means VB3m is listening on all ports, you have to run it as an AUv3 if you want to send mapped MIDI.
Hmmm... Why does listening on all ports interfere with sending mapped MIDI? If you're worried that it would be hearing "wrong" MIDI CCs in addition to the right (remapped) ones, odds are, those wrong CCs wouldn't do anything anyway, right? Unless they are coincidentally aligned with some other function. But even if that is indeed a problem, more than that, I think it should be a non-issue becaise while VB3m may listen on all ports, it only listens on channels 1, 2, and 3, which still gives you a way to differentiate what it hears from where. No?
You end up with 2 MIDI streams, one going direct to the app and the other coming from your CC processing app. So when load VB3 any MIDI coming in from your controller keyb goes direct to the app. If you then load Midiflow although you can filter the notes any CCs you modify will be mixed with the ones going direct. Without the ability to select / deselect ports you can’t get around it this way. As you said earlier Event Processor could do it but you still have a problem unless you have something like the Kirg interface with 5 pin MIDI.

Ah but you have a point - different MIDI channels could do it.

[edit] right I’m on it. Nord sends on CH4 VB3 ignores it and Midiflow rechannelises the lot. Should work. I’ll get back to you!

Last edited by ChazKeys; 04/06/21 06:33 PM.
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Originally Posted by ChazKeys
If you then load Midiflow although you can filter the notes any CCs you modify will be mixed with the ones going direct.
Right, that's what I meant about worrying about the "wrong" (original) MIDI CCs getting through to VB3m along with the "corrected" ones... it's only a problem if the "wrong" ones actually happen to do something else. Which could happen, but it's also very likely that the "wrong" CC isn't mapped to anything at all in VB3m and so wouldn't do anything anyway, therefore no harm. But yes, addressing it via different MIDI channels is likely the best approach, as it should avoid even the possibility of a conflict.


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Wow I have had a Double Bongcloud today!
Can’t believe I spent the afternoon programming StreamByter when all I needed to was set my Electro to channel 4 or higher and route through Midiflow.
5 minute job. Thanks AnotherScott!

[EDIT] Turns out VB3m accepts CCs on all channels. So MidiFlow or any other stand alone processor/translator app won't work.
The MIDI has to go like this [ Keyboard Controller-> iPad [Midi Processor->VB3m] ]

For VB3m to work for me I need the app to present me with a list of MIDI ports including virtual ones. Control channel should be the same as the manuals or just the upper manual channel eg 1 or even selectable. But maybe this isn't going to happen if it gets tied to the new GM-Labs hardware.

Last edited by ChazKeys; 04/06/21 10:39 PM.
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Wow, didn't see this coming. Where is the 73 key version with the Gemini built-in (aka the Electro killer). He's getting closer......

https://www.facebook.com/instruments.crumar/photos/a.179482355578928/1556814741179009/


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Originally Posted by Delaware Dave
Wow, didn't see this coming. Where is the 73 key version with the Gemini built-in (aka the Electro killer). He's getting closer......

https://www.facebook.com/instruments.crumar/photos/a.179482355578928/1556814741179009/

Now we’re talkin’!! 2thu


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Originally Posted by Delaware Dave
Wow, didn't see this coming. Where is the 73 key version with the Gemini built-in (aka the Electro killer). He's getting closer......

https://www.facebook.com/instruments.crumar/photos/a.179482355578928/1556814741179009/

Yes 73 key version with a couple of extra pedal jacks please - programmable reverse keys for the lower octave would be nice. Wouldn't need the Gemini if Guido ports more of his virtual instruments to the mobile platform. VB3m, Tine, Reed and Clav shouldn't need too much CPU?

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Ok. One annoying android thing. At least on Samsung phones you cant disable screen timeout without an additional app. I'm jamming along and after 5 mins the screen has timed out and the sound has stopped. I installed "no screen off" and so far it seems ok with no conflicts but it is a concern at a gig.

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Originally Posted by drawback
Originally Posted by Delaware Dave
Wow, didn't see this coming. Where is the 73 key version with the Gemini built-in (aka the Electro killer). He's getting closer......

https://www.facebook.com/instruments.crumar/photos/a.179482355578928/1556814741179009/

Now we’re talkin’!! 2thu

As I just said in the Facebook comments:

As long as that stand is removable, the action feels like the Mojo 61, and it can also work bus powered with my PC laptop, this is an insta-buy for me. I keep a Numa Organ 2 around just to use as a software organ controller right now. This unit would send it packing!

I've been suggesting a version of the D9X with a waterfall keyboard since the D9X was released.

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A mini control surface with 9 sliders and a joystick. Ok, who's going to go out on a limb and see if this thing is compatible?

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Originally Posted by Jr. Deluxe
A mini control surface with 9 sliders and a joystick. Ok, who's going to go out on a limb and see if this thing is compatible?
Anything with programmable sliders should work... allowing for the complexity of connecting multiple USB devices to an iOS device, meaning you're probably looking at some kind of powered USB hub as well. Here's another similar controller, a no-name knock-off: ammoon EasyControl.9 World Portable Mini USB Slim-Line Control Midi Controller


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Originally Posted by AnotherScott
Originally Posted by Jr. Deluxe
The bad...when the app is open but in the background, the phone gets sluggish and almost locks up. So it's an organ module or a smartphone but not both at once. So I doubt I could have another keyboard app like a string machine or mellotron app running at the same time as vb3m.
It's Android... and even though Samsung has traditionally led the Android pack in MIDI, getting even just ONE program to behave about as well as it would on iOS is impressive enough! I would count myself lucky and wouldn't have either attempted to run a second MIDI app. (I'm not sure there would even be a good string machine/mellotron app to run with it anyway?)

Originally Posted by Jr. Deluxe
My korg nanokontrol bus powered up but didnt talk to the vb3m app. I was hopeful but not surprised. In windows drivers are required so it's not class compliant.
Hmmm. My impression was that the NanoKontrol is class compliant as a controller, and so the driver was probably only needed to be able to program it. I would have expected it to work. I wonder if there's some other reason it didn't work.

So with further exploration I have found that the korg nanokontrol does work quite nicely with vb3m but needs a powered hub. I used an insignia 7 port I had laying about. Since I had the korg already programmed for vb3 everything like drawbars, vol, exp, distortion, percussion ect was working with no extra programming.

Funny though, my nektar impact with 9 faders onboard worked on the phones bus power without the hub. So the possibility is that with a small bag of peripherals you could hook up the house owned yamaha PSR to your vb3m equipped phone and have a better than average sounding clonewheel with usable fader drawbars and leslie switch. Providing the PSR sends midi on ch 1 or omni. No more crap organ sounds at the blues jam.

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Re: android vb3m. In the GUI, it would nice to have the Leslie half moon switch accessible from the same screen as the drawbars. I find that the tabs to get to different screens are positioned off the screen on my phone in a kind of glitch so you can only see a slither of what the tab is labelled. So to play with drawbars, then switch to another screen to change Leslie speed is a bit of a nightmare.


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Ah, yes, I always assume you'll need a powered hub if you're connecting more than one device (and sometimes even with just one device). Otherwise, even if something appears to work at first, it may get flakey as the power level of the iPad drops.


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VB3m runs great on without hickups on my iPadMini2, iPhone7 and 2017 iPadPro10.5.
AUM and streambyter or Mozaic is the answer to all that is still missing in VB3m.
Running VB3m AUv3 in AUM You can set the buffer settings, store presets, filter channels
etc. You can write all Your mappings in Mozaic and be done.

VB3m is a lot lighter on resources than B-3X. I have VB3m and Korg Module
with all in-apps steadily running in AUM for really exellent sound expander for
My Yamaha MoXF8. Old iPadMini2 16Gb velcroed on MoXF, lightning-to-USB3 adapter,
USB B to USB A from MoXF to host-port for MIDI and audio
USB A to Lightning for extra power from MoXF USB A port.
No real drawbars, but I can use the on-screen ones.


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Originally Posted by SHonka
VB3m runs great on without hickups on my iPadMini2, iPhone7 and 2017 iPadPro10.5.
AUM and streambyter or Mozaic is the answer to all that is still missing in VB3m.
Running VB3m AUv3 in AUM You can set the buffer settings, store presets, filter channels
etc. You can write all Your mappings in Mozaic and be done.

Why not map directly in AUM?


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Originally Posted by SHonka
VB3m runs great on without hickups on my iPadMini2, iPhone7 and 2017 iPadPro10.5.
AUM and streambyter or Mozaic is the answer to all that is still missing in VB3m.
Running VB3m AUv3 in AUM You can set the buffer settings, store presets, filter channels
etc. You can write all Your mappings in Mozaic and be done.

VB3m is a lot lighter on resources than B-3X. I have VB3m and Korg Module
with all in-apps steadily running in AUM for really exellent sound expander for
My Yamaha MoXF8. Old iPadMini2 16Gb velcroed on MoXF, lightning-to-USB3 adapter,
USB B to USB A from MoXF to host-port for MIDI and audio
USB A to Lightning for extra power from MoXF USB A port.
No real drawbars, but I can use the on-screen ones.

That’s good to hear. I wonder why I can’t get it to work with my YC61 using an iPad Mini 4 and iPhone 7 with the Apple USB3 Camera Kit adapter?

Last edited by dickiefunk; 04/08/21 07:00 AM.
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Originally Posted by ChazKeys
[EDIT] Turns out VB3m accepts CCs on all channels. So MidiFlow or any other stand alone processor/translator app won't work.
The MIDI has to go like this [ Keyboard Controller-> iPad [Midi Processor->VB3m] ]
Just saw this edit. So this is solved by using it as an AUv3? So then you should be able to "host" it in Keystage as well as have Keystage translate the CCs?

Originally Posted by woodshedjones
to play with drawbars, then switch to another screen to change Leslie speed is a bit of a nightmare.
Does it recognize a footswitch (i.e. sustain pedal) to toggle rotary speed?

Originally Posted by dickiefunk
I wonder why I can’t get it to work with my YC61 using an iPad Mini 4 and iPhone 7 with the Apple USB3 Camera Kit adapter?
Have you tried what I suggested in the other thread, i.e. "see what happens if you don't use the YC61 interface. Any chance you have another way to connect, like a 5-pin DIN MIDI connection into your iPad?"


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Originally Posted by dickiefunk
I wonder why I can’t get it to work with my YC61 using an iPad Mini 4 and iPhone 7 with the Apple USB3 Camera Kit adapter?
Have you tried what I suggested in the other thread, i.e. "see what happens if you don't use the YC61 interface. Any chance you have another way to connect, like a 5-pin DIN MIDI connection into your iPad?"[/quote]

I have an old Behringer UMC404HD interface which I guess I could try though I’d need to get hold of some midi leads.

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Originally Posted by woodshedjones
to play with drawbars, then switch to another screen to change Leslie speed is a bit of a nightmare.
Does it recognize a footswitch (i.e. sustain pedal) to toggle rotary speed?
-----------------------------------------------------
If you have some kind of midi footswitch with a usb end to plug into a hub then yes. Or a sustain pedal plugged into your controller , then that depends on if your controller can use that to send a midi message.

I want to add that I've been playing on vb3m for an hour or 2 this morning and the latency isn't good. The app isn't unusable but if it were even 1 ms longer it would be almost unusable.

I've been demoing an android dx7 app called synth fm and its latency is noticeably shorter so I know its possible to improve vb3m.

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They just wrote on their FB page that an update with custom midi mapping is coming. Great news!

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Yeah I love that dx7 app! I bought the unlocked version. The latency is really good with it.
From a customer point of view I am thinking if Rockrelay Synth FM can manage great latency then why not GSI?

I of course know nothing of the technical challenges.

Some other android apps I use that play with "zero" or low latency are DRC polyphonic synthesiser and also Soundfont Midi Player. That has a low latency button on the demo version. Hit that and all is fine (time limited feature)

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.greh.soundfontmidiplayer


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Originally Posted by kwyn
They just wrote on their FB page that an update with custom midi mapping is coming. Great news!
Yup! Here's what he said about it: "Just found the most touch-friendly way to implement the custom Midi Map for VB3m... So expect an update soon. 👍🏻" -- with this picture posted, showing not just drawbars, but mapping for other parameters too...

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

ETA: Also the pic implies we may be able to specify the MIDI channels for each function individually. That would address something discussed earlier (including as a shortcoming of B-3X), if we can assign Upper Drawbars to one channel and Lower Drawbars to another, which is how some double-manual clones are set up.

Last edited by AnotherScott; 04/08/21 09:06 PM.

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This update looks great. I notice it also has another new tab called “Device Options”?

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