Question about Viscount Legend Live

[kwyn]

A little OT, but how does the SSv3 work for acoustic stereo piano sounds. For example, running the legend and a second Piano keyboard with just the Space Station as an on stage monitor.

[Silbac]

Guys, thank you all for your answers. I'm kinda torn between choosing either these (if I'm correct Al Coda you were referring to this bundle, even though I can't find the same bundle but with 2 speakers instead of 4) and the solution that Woody proposed.

[16251]

A little OT, but how does the SSv3 work for acoustic stereo piano sounds. For example, running the legend and a second Piano keyboard with just the Space Station as an on stage monitor.

 

I was early adopter of SSv3. One cabinet stereo. Ended up selling:

 

Didn't think it worked for stereo acoustic piano or stereo pan for Rhodes sound.

 

Not enough low end. Sub solves that but defeated the purpose of one cabinet.

 

 

Now, if I had a Legend Live (which I would love to own,) or other clone, I think the SSv3 with sub, is the only way to go except for a real Leslie, even for home use.

[Doerfler]

Now, if I had a Legend Live (which I would love to own,) or other clone, I think the SSv3 with sub, is the only way to go except for a real Leslie, even for home use.

 

Several years ago I saw the organ trio "Organissimo" in Washington DC. The organ player, active on this forum and a Hammond endorsed artist, was playing his Hammond clone into a SS3 with a rather large Yamaha subwoofer. Sounded fantastic.

More than the OP can spend, but good info for the future.

[AnotherScott]

those speakers and amp i described in my video work perfectly for home use...the reproduction of the stereo rotary simulation is great, and much more flexible when it comes to placement and stereo spread than those spacestation boxes (i've not tried one, but it would seems to make sense).

The stereo rotary simulation is better on a Spacestation than placing yourself between a pair of speakers as you did in your video. (Rotary is not supposed to sound like an autopan effect, and no actual Leslie is 6 feet wide or listened to with your head between its two sides.) And placement of the Spacestation is actually more flexible than that kind of stereo pair setup, too, in that you only need to place one box rather than two (which isn't just a matter of finding places for the two boxes, but also finding two workable places that are roughly symmetrical/equidistant from your playing position). The placement variables to a Spacestation are that it works best when there are walls nearby for reflection, and when you can place it a bit of a distance away from your playing position. But for home use, there are pretty much always going to be walls nearby anyway, and you can pretty much always manage to get the box some feet away from you. Placement could be more of an issue for gigging than for home use, though.

 

If you want to get a bit closer to a real Leslie effect out of your pair of speakers, you could try placing the speakers right next to each other, set up in a V shape,so that they are angled away from each other with neither of the speakers aimed directly at your playing position. You can experiment between angles of, say, 45 and 90 degrees... if your clonewheel actually lets you specify the "virtual" microphone angles, it might make sense to duplicate that same angle (that's nothing I've played with myself).

 

A little OT, but how does the SSv3 work for acoustic stereo piano sounds. For example, running the legend and a second Piano keyboard with just the Space Station as an on stage monitor.

Out of the box, I thought the piano on the SS was pretty bad. Once I put it through a mixer that had a sweepable mid, I found a frequency where about a 3 dB cut made a ton of difference, and gave me something I found perfectly acceptable. (If your mixer doesn't have a sweepable mid, it's also possible that your piano keyboard may have that kind of EQ flexibility in it.) That said, a Spacestation would not be my first choice for general keyboard amplification. But if I was playing 90% organ, sure.

 

Now, if I had a Legend Live (which I would love to own,) or other clone, I think the SSv3 with sub, is the only way to go except for a real Leslie, even for home use.

For home use, I think you'd probably be okay without the sub, unless your organ setup includes the bass pedals. I'd probably start that way, at least. The lowest non-bass pedal note on a Hammond is about 65 Hz. Only the lowest C-to-G (on the 16' drawbar) fall below the 100 Hz+ range where the sub would probably much matter anyway. Volume level is a variable here too, but at the levels you'd be playing at in your home, I don't think that's really very much of an issue.

[Silbac]

I could consider that for the near future but for right now I gotta stick with that budget. So it's one of these three:

JBL Control 1

the box PA M 12 ECO MKII

the box Pro Achat 104 bundle

What do you think?

[Silbac]

I forgot to mention the Alto TS 312 which also seemed like a good option

[Al Coda]

these (if I'm correct Al Coda you were referring to this bundle.

 

I never said I recommend that bundle.

I only said Thomann TheBox Achat is the budget speaker series being 1 level higher than the very cheap ones (from the vid) originally posted above.

 

 

When you play organ ONLY (!!!) Aspen/Pittman Spacestation v3 is a good option,- it isn´t for all kind of keyboards/synths and MIDI modules.

And it´s better w/ a sub, where you´d have to look for something offering (@ approx. 100 -120Hz high-pass filtered outputs, these running to SSv3 inputs then.

So, you´d run from the stereo (balanced) out of the organ into the sub 1st.

But it can be, the organ doesn´t offer enough output level to drive the subs inputs which are typically +4dB line level,- so you might need a preamp in addition or some -10dB to +4dB level shifter,- or a small mixer (when using more keys).

The SSv3 sounds not very good for acoustic piano sounds.

 

I myself, I´d buy a pair of Alto TS310 w/ padded covers for under EUR 600,- and see.

The TS310 have lots of good customer reviews and the 312 doesn´t go much lower.

The TS310´s frequency response is 54Hz - 20KHz @+/-3dB and it´s frequency range is 48Hz - 22 KHz @ +/- 10dB,- vs TS312 43Hz -20KHz (+/-3dB) and 46Hz and 22KHz (+/-10dB).

A low end 11Hz difference @ +/-3dB and only 2Hz @ +/-10dB.

SPL is 126dB continuous vs 128dB (TS312).

The x-over point is 2.5Khz for the tweeter,- that´s good because they don´t put almost everything on the horn !!!

Some have a x-over point of 1.2KHz which is crap !

 

With the TS310, you´d need a sub only when kickin´ bass pedals,- or couple pedal-drawbars to lower manual for LH-bass replacing the bass player in a band.

Same rules for the TS312.

You save weight, size and money w/ the TS310.

 

But I also read a german comparative test @Amazona, done by a FOH and studio engineer w/ some reputation who often do these tests for Amazona,- and the result was very good.

That´s why I said you´d have to spend much more money when you want something significantly better.

These speakers keep up w/ lower budget ranges of EV, JBL, RCF.

For some it´s a problem Alto uses some proprietary parts for their gear,- so DIY repair is problematic.

But I think that rules for many others too becaue today, when something fails, you´ll have to ship it to an authorized service center anyway.

 

The TS310 is compact and relatively lightweight.

To keep ´em lookin´ good you´d need the covers, at least for transport.

You can gig w/ ´em in future too.

They are good enough for keyboard monitors.

 

And,- speakers are always a matter of taste too.

So,- when you don´t like ´em ... Thomann has a very good return policy (and maybe other dealers too !).

And, you´re free ordering the cheapo solution from the vid AND a pair of TS310, then keep what you like and return the other.

 

No biggie.

 

I don´t gig anymore, but when I did, I´d buy exactly these.

When gigging/touring, they keys run into a PA for the audience in addition anyway.

 

A.C.

[Silbac]

these (if I'm correct Al Coda you were referring to this bundle.

 

I never said I recommend that bundle.

I only said Thomann TheBox Achat is the budget speaker series being 1 level higher than the very cheap ones (from the vid) originally posted above.

 

 

When you play organ ONLY (!!!) Aspen/Pittman Spacestation v3 is a good option,- it isn´t for all kind of keyboards/synths and MIDI modules.

And it´s better w/ a sub, where you´d have to look for something offering (@ approx. 100 -120Hz high-pass filtered outputs, these running to SSv3 inputs then.

So, you´d run from the stereo (balanced) out of the organ into the sub 1st.

But it can be, the organ doesn´t offer enough output level to drive the subs inputs which are typically +4dB line level,- so you might need a preamp in addition or some -10dB to +4dB level shifter,- or a small mixer (when using more keys).

The SSv3 sounds not very good for acoustic piano sounds.

 

I myself, I´d buy a pair of Alto TS310 w/ padded covers for under EUR 600,- and see.

The TS310 have lots of good customer reviews and the 312 doesn´t go much lower.

The TS310´s frequency response is 54Hz - 20KHz @+/-3dB and it´s frequency range is 48Hz - 22 KHz @ +/- 10dB,- vs TS312 43Hz -20KHz (+/-3dB) and 46Hz and 22KHz (+/-10dB).

A low end 11Hz difference @ +/-3dB and only 2Hz @ +/-10dB.

SPL is 126dB continuous vs 128dB (TS312).

The x-over point is 2.5Khz for the tweeter,- that´s good because they don´t put almost everything on the horn !!!

Some have a x-over point of 1.2KHz which is crap !

 

With the TS310, you´d need a sub only when kickin´ bass pedals,- or couple pedal-drawbars to lower manual for LH-bass replacing the bass player in a band.

Same rules for the TS312.

You save weight, size and money w/ the TS310.

 

But I also read a german comparative test @Amazona, done by a FOH and studio engineer w/ some reputation who often do these tests for Amazona,- and the result was very good.

That´s why I said you´d have to spend much more money when you want something significantly better.

These speakers keep up w/ lower budget ranges of EV, JBL, RCF.

For some it´s a problem Alto uses some proprietary parts for their gear,- so DIY repair is problematic.

But I think that rules for many others too becaue today, when something fails, you´ll have to ship it to an authorized service center anyway.

 

The TS310 is compact and relatively lightweight.

To keep ´em lookin´ good you´d need the covers, at least for transport.

You can gig w/ ´em in future too.

They are good enough for keyboard monitors.

 

And,- speakers are always a matter of taste too.

So,- when you don´t like ´em ... Thomann has a very good return policy (and maybe other dealers too !).

And, you´re free ordering the cheapo solution from the vid AND a pair of TS310, then keep what you like and return the other.

 

No biggie.

 

I don´t gig anymore, but when I did, I´d buy exactly these.

When gigging/touring, they keys run into a PA for the audience in addition anyway.

 

A.C.

Thank you so much, you've been really exhaustive. With both TS310 and TS312 you wouldn't need any amp since they're active monitors, right? Also, aside from being one 12'' and the other 10'' is there any significant difference between TS310 and TS312? Thank you again.

[Al Coda]

With both TS310 and TS312 you wouldn't need any amp since they're active monitors, right?

 

Yes ! They both come w/ the typical "show up" 2000W Class-D bi-amp spec.

That´s not bad, just only like alll the others do too.

It´s enough power anyway and there should be much headroom.

 

Also, aside from being one 12'' and the other 10'' is there any significant difference between TS310 and TS312?

 

Did you read my post above ?

Size, weight, minor different low end and SPL.

 

See yourself ...

Alto TS310

 

Alto TS312

 

sub ... if you want one ...

Alto TS312S

 

look carefully for the detailed specs bottom of each site.

 

Have in mind, when you´r not in europe and pay in dollars,- you won´t pay the 19% VAT included in Thomann EUR prices.

These toys are much cheaper in the US than in europe.

 

 

A.C.

[Silbac]

With both TS310 and TS312 you wouldn't need any amp since they're active monitors, right?

 

Yes ! They both come w/ the typical "show up" 2000W Class-D bi-amp spec.

That´s not bad, just only like alll the others do too.

It´s enough power anyway and there should be much headroom.

 

Also, aside from being one 12'' and the other 10'' is there any significant difference between TS310 and TS312?

 

Did you read my post above ?

Size, weight, minor different low end and SPL.

 

See yourself ...

Alto TS310

 

Alto TS312

 

sub ... if you want one ...

Alto TS312S

 

look carefully for the detailed specs bottom of each site.

 

Have in mind, when you´r not in europe and pay in dollars,- you won´t pay the 19% VAT included in Thomann EUR prices.

These toys are much cheaper in the US than in europe.

 

 

A.C.

Thank you again! Unfortunately I'm in Italy, so that doesn't apply to me. I thought I might go ahead and buy one TS310 and if I'm satisfied with the way it sounds I'll buy a second one. One last question: what kind of cables do I need to buy separately? Or do the necessary ones already come with the speakers? Thank you.

[Al Coda]

... I might go ahead and buy one TS310 and if I'm satisfied with the way it sounds I'll buy a second one.

 

Good idea.

But then, you´ll hear the leslie sim of your legend in mono,- which might have influence on your final decision then.

 

... what kind of cables do I need to buy separately?

 

Also TS3 series active speakers come w/ their power cable only (TS3 series user guide > introduction).

 

What you´ll finally need depends on your setup.

Download TS3 Series User Guide from Alto website and read about setup and volume levels.

You can go into these speakers w/ mic level up to line level and there´s a gain control.

With luck, it matches the Legend organ and you need only 2 cables from instrument stereo main out to the 2 speakers.

 

It´s easy.

 

A.C.

[bill bosco]

i've been using an Alto TS312 as a wedge for 2 years . i really like the tone , pianos and EPs sound right through it , much better than the K8.2s that i also own . and the Alto's the best i've heard

any of my clones through . am considering one more 312 or maybe two 310s .

[AnotherScott]

i've been using an Alto TS312 as a wedge for 2 years . i really like the tone , pianos and EPs sound right through it , much better than the K8.2s that i also own

The Alto should certainly have advantages in bass response and overall volume, but I'm surprised that the piano tone would beat the K8.2. What keyboard's pianos/EPs are you using?

[bill bosco]

i was surprised too , the pianos and EPs in my modx7 sound harsh compared to the 312 , the QSCs have plenty of bass , that's not an issue , mostly the midrange i'd say . overall , i think the 312s are a lot warmer .

is there an EQ trick i'm missing ?

[LX88]

I was not a fan of the Space station...is it still being produced?

 

The version I saw at NAMM a few years back had two Eminence 8 inch woofers and one high frequency driver.

 

There just wasn't enough low end for my needs

 

Also..I like separation when listening to most leslie sim. A leslie sim is not a leslie...to me it just provides its own unique animation to the sound.

 

Many leslie Sims such as Crumar Mojo seem to strive to provide character to the sound....which can be hard to dial in.In a way I am glad that Key B doesn't allow you to tweak their sim which can lead to wasted time and all sorts of crazymaking.

 

No offense to the deceased designer of the Space station but. I prefer to get a good power amp some speakers you like.

[Luxxum]

Crumar Mojo Classic Euro 1600

Nobsound amplifier 2.1 TPA3116D2 Euro 70

Wharfedale subwoofer Impact X18B Euro 230

Jbl Control 1 Euro 100

 

This is my 2000 euro setup ( If you prefer Legend Live no problem , 300 euro extra for the organ and 400 for a Neo Instrument Ventilator II )

[rockinroller]

I'd go with the Alto TS312 instead of the 310. It's only a few dollars more and believe me--regardless of the specs--the bass kicks a lot better out of the 12. I play in a trio in which I also cover bass in my LH. Most of the right hand parts are either B3 sounds, real piano, E-piano, and sometimes orchestral sounds like horns and strings. I was able to compare the two speakers side by side as coincidentally our PA system consists of two 310's. I thought the difference--especially for my organ and LH bass sounds--would be subtle, but I was surprised to hear such a difference. Even the organ sounded "thicker" and more rich through the 12 than the 10's. The 312 is heavier (by just over 10 lbs) but IMO it's worth it. By the way, that single 312 is all I use for live output during our gigs (clubs usually under 120 capacity) and it's never "not enough".

[Silbac]

Thank you all again. I thought about buying a single TS312 and see how it sounds with the Legend Live. But does the overall sound change drastically when connected in mono to a single speaker instead of two? Or is it a viable solution?