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#3030935 02/28/20 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr Mike Metlay
Originally Posted by Tusker
Does anyone here collaborate online with "strangers" ?

How do you do it? I've collaborated virtually with people I know in the real world ... but I am not aware of any platform which facilitates small scale collaboration (< 4 hours) Recently, I looked for a cellist on upwork ... and there are cellists there ... but they are typically hanging out their shingle for "mixing and production services" or "arranging" or something like that. I would probably get better results reaching out to some orchestral players (not cellists unfortunately) who have worked with me before. They would tap into their networks for me. But shouldn't there be better options today?

Imagine ... you are working a song. You need a "blues harp" solo. You find somebody online, review their audio files, send them a track and within an hour, you might have something usable. Or ... it's late at night and somebody has posted a track which needs some Rhodes comping. You turn something in. If they like it ... it's like a pickup gig at very short notice. There has got to be a way of taking the friction out of online musical collaboration, right?

Comments?


Tusker, please repost this in the Collaboration forum? I'd love to dive in and talk about it there.



Thank you Mike! It seems to me that technology loves to reduce friction between strangers, thus allowing you buy that vintage effects pedal from somebody you don't really trust ... but you trust the platform. Or to take a ride with someone you don't really trust ... but you trust the platform.

So do the current platforms address your needs? Would they address mine ... as described above?

Thanks in advance. 🙏

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Originally Posted by Tusker
Originally Posted by Dr Mike Metlay
Originally Posted by Tusker
Does anyone here collaborate online with "strangers" ?

How do you do it? I've collaborated virtually with people I know in the real world ... but I am not aware of any platform which facilitates small scale collaboration (< 4 hours) Recently, I looked for a cellist on upwork ... and there are cellists there ... but they are typically hanging out their shingle for "mixing and production services" or "arranging" or something like that. I would probably get better results reaching out to some orchestral players (not cellists unfortunately) who have worked with me before. They would tap into their networks for me. But shouldn't there be better options today?

Imagine ... you are working a song. You need a "blues harp" solo. You find somebody online, review their audio files, send them a track and within an hour, you might have something usable. Or ... it's late at night and somebody has posted a track which needs some Rhodes comping. You turn something in. If they like it ... it's like a pickup gig at very short notice. There has got to be a way of taking the friction out of online musical collaboration, right?

Comments?


Tusker, please repost this in the Collaboration forum? I'd love to dive in and talk about it there.



Thank you Mike! It seems to me that technology loves to reduce friction between strangers, thus allowing you buy that vintage effects pedal from somebody you don't really trust ... but you trust the platform. Or to take a ride with someone you don't really trust ... but you trust the platform.

So do the current platforms address your needs? Would they address mine ... as described above?

Thanks in advance. 🙏

Some definitely would. Keep in mind that my needs are different than yours*, so I want to be careful about making promises.

Part of the charm of curated platforms is that there's a third-party authority figure that promises to make interaction smooth and free of hassle. Sometimes this is delivered quite well (Reverb.com) and sometimes it's basically a clusterfuq (Ebay). That means you will want to choose a platform that will give you what you need without causing issues with clearances, payment, or whatever.

That's why I recommend that when you try an online platform that offers this sort of interaction, look for one where the legal terms are made clear up front and you can audition the work that your potential collaborator has done before. The technical aspects of sharing are relatively straightforward and trivial compared to the potential minefield of who owns what content in your final song, especially if it gets picked up and starts generating revenue!

The big names right now for that sort of interaction are Bandhub, Kompoz, and Splice; Blend.io seems to be more for beatmakers and producers. All of these lay out the legal language pretty clearly, so read before you jump in.

I hope this helps!

mike

*For my model of online collaboration, which is more about forming actual bands or completing projects without everyone being in the same place, I lean more toward environments like BandLab. It doesn't have a for-hire structure for payment and is more intended as a workspace for groups that have made legal arrangements (if any) elsewhere.


Dr. Mike Metlay (PhD in nuclear physics, golly gosh) grin
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Very helpful summary. Thank you Mike.

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Originally Posted by Dr Mike Metlay
Originally Posted by Tusker
Originally Posted by Dr Mike Metlay
Originally Posted by Tusker
Does anyone here collaborate online with "strangers" ?

How do you do it? I've collaborated virtually with people I know in the real world ... but I am not aware of any platform which facilitates small scale collaboration (< 4 hours) Recently, I looked for a cellist on upwork ... and there are cellists there ... but they are typically hanging out their shingle for "mixing and production services" or "arranging" or something like that. I would probably get better results reaching out to some orchestral players (not cellists unfortunately) who have worked with me before. They would tap into their networks for me. But shouldn't there be better options today?

Imagine ... you are working a song. You need a "blues harp" solo. You find somebody online, review their audio files, send them a track and within an hour, you might have something usable. Or ... it's late at night and somebody has posted a track which needs some Rhodes comping. You turn something in. If they like it ... it's like a pickup gig at very short notice. There has got to be a way of taking the friction out of online musical collaboration, right?

Comments?


Tusker, please repost this in the Collaboration forum? I'd love to dive in and talk about it there.



Thank you Mike! It seems to me that technology loves to reduce friction between strangers, thus allowing you buy that vintage effects pedal from somebody you don't really trust ... but you trust the platform. Or to take a ride with someone you don't really trust ... but you trust the platform.

So do the current platforms address your needs? Would they address mine ... as described above?

Thanks in advance. 🙏

Some definitely would. Keep in mind that my needs are different than yours*, so I want to be careful about making promises.

Part of the charm of curated platforms is that there's a third-party authority figure that promises to make interaction smooth and free of hassle. Sometimes this is delivered quite well (Reverb.com) and sometimes it's basically a clusterfuq (Ebay). That means you will want to choose a platform that will give you what you need without causing issues with clearances, payment, or whatever.

That's why I recommend that when you try an online platform that offers this sort of interaction, look for one where the legal terms are made clear up front and you can audition the work that your potential collaborator has done before. The technical aspects of sharing are relatively straightforward and trivial compared to the potential minefield of who owns what content in your final song, especially if it gets picked up and starts generating revenue!

The big names right now for that sort of interaction are Bandhub, Kompoz, and Splice; Blend.io seems to be more for beatmakers and producers. All of these lay out the legal language pretty clearly, so read before you jump in.

I hope this helps!

mike

*For my model of online collaboration, which is more about forming actual bands or completing projects without everyone being in the same place, I lean more toward environments like BandLab. It doesn't have a for-hire structure for payment and is more intended as a workspace for groups that have made legal arrangements (if any) elsewhere.




FYI Bandhub is no longer in existence as of last March. They couldn’t maintain server costs.

Kompoz isn’t bad at all - I’ve used it a few times as a contributor. Also...I believe there’s a site called Fiverr that I’ve seen used by various music Youtubers.
One of the former Bandhub users is working on a similar site called BandHug, but it’s in beta testing right now with a lot of work to be done still. Much more complicated to run than one would think! Full disclosure - I’ve worked on some aspects of the site (translations and categories).


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Originally Posted by Mighty Motif Max

Kompoz isn’t bad at all - I’ve used it a few times as a contributor. Also...I believe there’s a site called Fiverr that I’ve seen used by various music Youtubers.

Fiverr? God, I wouldn't wish that site on my worst enemy.

It's a virtual sweatshop where coders (many of them in third-world countries) juggle multiple online identities and accounts, fulfilling literally dozens of tasks per day, from logo design to proofreading and even ghostwriting. There's very little quality control or back and forth communication unless the client complains really loudly; they're all about chopping out results as fast as possible.

I did a logo design there, and it took me a month and six iterations of back and forth because I literally could not explain my needs to the designer in language she could understand and I had no choice but to see the "infinite revisions until you're happy" through to the end or simply forfeit my fee.

I also researched what would be involved in working through Fiverr, and was so horrified at the potential workload per return that I suspended my account.

I can't imagine what YouTubers would use Fiverr for, other than finding clients who want videos created for as little money as possible.

Sorry, Max, but I had to jump in here. Thanks for the info on BandHub and Kompoz.

mike


Dr. Mike Metlay (PhD in nuclear physics, golly gosh) grin
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Just another perspective on Fiverr. First, agree it's absolutely not a collaboration platform. Second, agree the way they gouge fees from sellers and the sneaky ways they charge fees to buyers is terrible. All that said, on the music service side of things, I've found it really useful as both a buyer and seller.

A disclaimer though: I spent hours doing my research and really digging into the specifics of the person I have used multiple times as a buyer.


As a buyer: I've developed a relationship with a guy in Greece who does mixing and mastering. I used him for one song I'd recorded and liked what he produced. I've now gone back to him six more times and have been happy each time. His pricing is good - not dirt cheap but reasonable, so I call it a win-win for us both. As I mentioned though I spent quite a bit of time vetting.

As a seller: I've created podcast music for two buyers on Fiverr. Because I'm super busy I've raised my prices to a decent level and not surprisingly have found I'm not getting any work. When I have more time and am happy to pick up some bucks I'll lower my prices a little and see what happens.


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Thanks for the feedback, David! It's nice to know that there CAN be fruitful relationships in that hellhole. grin

mike


Dr. Mike Metlay (PhD in nuclear physics, golly gosh) grin
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Second thumbs up for Fiverr. I just got a set of drum tracks recorded by a gent in the South of France, and he was not only a terrific drummer but a smooth and friendly collaborator.
Read, and use your intuition as to whether someone fits, prior to booking, much as everywhere else.
I imagine that in some areas of services, there is a greater and easier potential for disappointment, but many of the ads for music seem to give a pretty good idea of the level and seriousness of the players, if nothing else in their ad design and word choices.

C.

Last edited by Claus H; 03/15/21 09:36 PM.

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